(edited by dadamowsky.4692)
Combos: great idea with no impact
My experience is completely different and you should look to understanding what the different fields do. Taking hits while you have chaos armor on, or releasing cleansing bolts etc is quite helpful. It depends on the fight.
I think combos are actually where you get into the real depth of the gameplay. It takes a while and a bit of thought to understand precisely what your own combos can do (your own fields and finishers), and then it takes a while again (and probably some alt-ing with the other profs) to understand how you can lay down fields to help others and exploit others’ fields.
I tend to agree. I think it’s because of the buff/debuff system, with the durations being so short and even more than there is rarely control over how/when to apply something, especially thanks to largely random chances at doing so (or even random at what buffs/debuffs are applied.)
Further, as you say, they are rarely if ever coordinated due to the necessary communication and setup… they’re not long enough to react to, and it seems more than they were designed to be “endured” rather than “managed.”
I’d like to see more skills that apply or remove them directly (especially in a predictable group situation).
I also think the icon system for them needs to be improved – they aren’t distinct enough, all within a red “box” and and a small illustration too detailed for it’s size. They need to be wholly different from each other especially with dropping off so quickly.
As an elementalist, I absolutely love to buff myself with my own fields + blast finishers. I also use my fields when I notice I have projectile-shooting allies fighting with me.
However, I almost never react to other people’s fields (on purpose), either because I don’t realize they’re combo fields or because I don’t have time. I’ve never actually played while being in direct communication with someone though, maybe that would allow better coordination.
Personally I perceive cross-players combos as great idea. This mechanic is something that had been looking very very promising in a pre-release materials. Yet… it’s useless in an actual game. I don’t feel any difference in fight with and without them, there’s absolutely no need (or even greed) to make a combo. Maybe that is the reason why I see no one performing combos on purpose, and very few to even trigger them (most probably by an accident of having finisher and/or field in their fav weapon).
Maybe some kind of solution would be area bosses pratically immune to any normal strike, and fragile to combo moves (maybe this is a solution for facerolling parties killing the allmighty-element-of-this-soil dragons like a rat). Maybe the combos should be simply stronger. Anything, IMO it’s a shame that this mechanic could be so impactful for a gameplay, yet it isn’t.
This is just blind ignorance OP. You’ve never been in an area might stacking group have you?
This is just blind ignorance OP. You’ve never been in an area might stacking group have you?
That’s the problem. No one has.
I don’t bother with them mostly because the field/wall that we shoot through to get the combo only lasts a few seconds and to me, it’s just not worth, A. moving in to position to hopefully use it, or B. wasting a skill slot on something that only lasts a few seconds.
Whether the glass is half empty or half full, there is still only half there.
I find them very useful. In a large DE group with little to no comms it can be a bit hit and miss, but within your own group, and knowing the people you’re with, firing salvos through fields is extremely effective.
To say they are ineffective is misleading.
I wouldn’t say they’re ineffective, just that they are too short in duration to be reliable.
Whether the glass is half empty or half full, there is still only half there.
My friends and I have been using combos every chance we get. We have learned what each other’s abilities can do and what we have to combo with them. I even perform combos by myself on my elementalist. For instance, I drop a healing geyser and then cast arcane wave right in the middle of it. That will burst an AOE heal out to myself and all players within range on top of what the healing geyser is doing. I will also pop arcane wave in a few of my fire fields and it will do damage to enemies and grant might to myself and nearby allies.
The combos are actually very useful and make a good impact. It seems to me that you simply aren’t doing it right.
This is just blind ignorance OP. You’ve never been in an area might stacking group have you?
That’s the problem. No one has.
Please don’t speak for me. I have.
I don’t really feel this way at all as a thief. With extremely easy access to cluster bomb and heartseeker, I can constantly be making use of other people’s combo fields. One of my favorite parts of the class, really. Is it so powerful that I specifically plan to work with others to make use of them? Generally no. But I’m going to be using my combo finishers all the time anyways, so being able to position myself into a combo field to get extra benefits is great. And sometimes it is worth focusing on combos just for their own sake. During certain boss fights or WvW situations I’d be doing a hell of a lot more good hitting friendly water or fire fields with cluster bomb to heal or grant might to others than I would anything else. And heartseeking through your own black powder is pretty much the cornerstone of the thief dagger/pistol weapon set.
My friends and I have been using combos every chance we get. We have learned what each other’s abilities can do and what we have to combo with them. I even perform combos by myself on my elementalist. For instance, I drop a healing geyser and then cast arcane wave right in the middle of it. That will burst an AOE heal out to myself and all players within range on top of what the healing geyser is doing. I will also pop arcane wave in a few of my fire fields and it will do damage to enemies and grant might to myself and nearby allies.
The combos are actually very useful and make a good impact. It seems to me that you simply aren’t doing it right.
The issue is that the game encourages players to play along side each other, not “with” each other – so most players are oblivious to teamwork. Further, the communication and coordination required just doesn’t exist and isn’t worth it in
MAYBE for dungeon bosses… that’s the only time you might be able to coordinate a team with enough communication to make them matter.
But I’m going to be using my combo finishers all the time anyways, so being able to position myself into a combo field to get extra benefits is great.
Two important points there:
1 – No thought. You were going to use your abilities anyway – there’s no tactical reason you’re using combos. Just because “they exist.”
2 – While you’re busy getting into position (and the already short duration is clicking away, in most cases before you get there or have to dodge out of the way) you’re also not doing what you’re supposed to be doing which is a) killing things and b) staying alive.
Is the tradeoff to get into a 1 second combo field worth it? My math says no.
Combo fields are great, I’m an aoe might stacker, and quite often get people to the 25 cap.
My friends and I have been using combos every chance we get. We have learned what each other’s abilities can do and what we have to combo with them. I even perform combos by myself on my elementalist. For instance, I drop a healing geyser and then cast arcane wave right in the middle of it. That will burst an AOE heal out to myself and all players within range on top of what the healing geyser is doing. I will also pop arcane wave in a few of my fire fields and it will do damage to enemies and grant might to myself and nearby allies.
The combos are actually very useful and make a good impact. It seems to me that you simply aren’t doing it right.
The issue is that the game encourages players to play along side each other, not “with” each other – so most players are oblivious to teamwork. Further, the communication and coordination required just doesn’t exist and isn’t worth it in
MAYBE for dungeon bosses… that’s the only time you might be able to coordinate a team with enough communication to make them matter.
I haven’t done one dungeon and my teams are always coordinated. Perhaps this is because I play with a group of friends/guildies. We are always in vent together while playing. I think the real problem here is that some people are failing to treat this like the team game that it is. Sure you can run around solo, but you will have a far better experience if you actually team up with people.
Also… WvW. That is where most of our coordinated play happens.
But I’m going to be using my combo finishers all the time anyways, so being able to position myself into a combo field to get extra benefits is great.
Two important points there:
1 – No thought. You were going to use your abilities anyway – there’s no tactical reason you’re using combos. Just because “they exist.”
2 – While you’re busy getting into position (and the already short duration is clicking away, in most cases before you get there or have to dodge out of the way) you’re also not doing what you’re supposed to be doing which is a) killing things and b) staying alive.
Is the tradeoff to get into a 1 second combo field worth it? My math says no.
Most of the time “getting into position” means “circle 3 feet to the left around the mob I’m attacking since people drop combo fields on top of monsters all thekittentime” so I’m not sure why you feel it isn’t worth it.
But I’m going to be using my combo finishers all the time anyways, so being able to position myself into a combo field to get extra benefits is great.
Two important points there:
1 – No thought. You were going to use your abilities anyway – there’s no tactical reason you’re using combos. Just because “they exist.”
2 – While you’re busy getting into position (and the already short duration is clicking away, in most cases before you get there or have to dodge out of the way) you’re also not doing what you’re supposed to be doing which is a) killing things and b) staying alive.
Is the tradeoff to get into a 1 second combo field worth it? My math says no.
1. Nonsense! Just because he is taking advantage of the combo fields around him, does not mean that no thought is going into it.
2. I know for me on my caster, I can move while casting. I lose no damage at all when moving into a combo field.
As a thief I love making my own combos all the time. I have a build that uses a lot of stealth, and one of the ways I can gain an additional stealth is to fire off my Pistol #5 skill, laying down a Smoke Field, and then use Dagger #2 (Heartseeker) from within it as a Leap finisher. Not only do I leap at my target and do some good damage, the combo stealths me for free.
Alternately I could use my Dagger #3 (Death Blossom) Whirl finisher inside the smoke field to fire blinding bolts at all nearby foes, making all of their next attacks miss.
Swap to the Shortbow and now with that Smoke field I could fire the Shortbow #2 skill into it, which is a blast finisher, and grant me and my allies area stealth.
Or start all of that over but with a poison field which I can then Leap finisher to cause weakness, blast finisher to cause area weakness, or use my whirl finisher to fling poison out in an area.
I don’t know the other fields and their resulting finishers as well as my own, but as time goes on we’ll all become more familier with them and they will become more and more important.
any regen field + melee leap = healing.
so you’re standing in a REGEN field which is already granting you more health, then you leap (or as a sword/board warrior like my self double leap) you get a pretty big aoe heal to all the other melees.
this isn’t a good combo field?
Combos in world PvE? Minimal effect.
Combos in Dungeons? Can make or break an entire battle.
The main problem is that Combo Finisher: Projectile is really bad. The only thing that’s really good for is comboing with a Holy field for condition removal, because none of the other effects actually stick to your target long enough to notice that it even happened. However, Leap, Blast and Whirl are all really good finishers.
The only time I get a break-down of what happened is in sPvP, and it’s what other people did to kill me. So in that sense, it’s hard to tell how important combos are in the hard numbers, cuz we don’t have any hard numbers.
I hunt frequently with the same people, and do use the combos. They feel effective, but more importantly, they feel fun.
To me the beauty of combos is you don’t have to really do any coordination for people to benefit from them. Sure it’s better if you do, but just dropping any combo field on or in front of a group of allies and/or on a foe is going to naturally be beneficial since most profession’s weapon skills have some combo finisher they use anyway. As people get more and more familiar with the different combos and recognize the different fields, they’ll start looking for the opportunities.
Personally I perceive cross-players combos as great idea. This mechanic is something that had been looking very very promising in a pre-release materials. Yet… it’s useless in an actual game. I don’t feel any difference in fight with and without them, there’s absolutely no need (or even greed) to make a combo. Maybe that is the reason why I see no one performing combos on purpose, and very few to even trigger them (most probably by an accident of having finisher and/or field in their fav weapon).
Maybe some kind of solution would be area bosses pratically immune to any normal strike, and fragile to combo moves (maybe this is a solution for facerolling parties killing the allmighty-element-of-this-soil dragons like a rat). Maybe the combos should be simply stronger. Anything, IMO it’s a shame that this mechanic could be so impactful for a gameplay, yet it isn’t.
#Combos add additional elemental damage to a targeted mob in the form a damage over time affects (DOT).
#This added DOT is in fact added damage.
#Therefore the purpose of combos is to do more damage.
I enjoy the combo fields actually. I have a guardian with a GS and my #2 skill throws down a combo light field that grants retaliation. When people whirl through it removes conditions and leaps grant area retaliation. I also can set up a ring of fire the with whirls sends out balls of fire hitting anything near the person using it and leaps give them a fire shield to burn nearby targets. Can’t wait to play my staff necro to spread the love even more.
Yeah I think they did these combos the right way. If they were super powerful, the entire game would become based around activating and sustaining them. If they were easier to do, nobody would even care about them. As it stands they exist in a space where they reward extra planning and effort but are not required. Good mechanic in my opinion.
Uhhhh… I use Lava Font on my Elementalist constantly in both events and WvW. Lay that sucker down in front of everyone and watch the “Burning” combos fly. I also use water fields + arcane wave to generate my own blast combo for large AOE healing.