Coming back to GW2
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Karma is as abundant as air, and as useless as the Kardashians.
Don’t disturb me, I have a cat in me at the moment.
Sea of Sorrows
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But Anet HAS worked on making going back to zones appealing. They’ve increased, for example, your chances in lower level zones of getting a yellow drop. They’ve improved rewards in the reward chests for all the world events, most of which happen in lower level zones, they’ve nerfed Orr so people can’t sit around and farm it constantly (in fact you can see precisely how many threads there are complaining about this)….just because it’s not working 100% doesn’t mean they’ve done nothing.
Hell the last living story took place in Wayfarer foothills and the early charr zones and those zones were packed.
This month the story is on Southsun and they’re allowing people to go there by leveling them up.
Saying Anet has done nothing is simply incorrect.
Doing things like the Living Story does not make going back to zones more appealing for more than a few minutes while you do the new Living Story content. I’m talking about making every zone more appealing for players to go back to at any given time. Not just the ones with Living Story currently in them, or with dull world bosses in them. People going to the world bosses get their chest and go. They don’t explore the zone, they don’t do anything there. You just get your daily chest and leave. That’s not incentive for a player to re-explore the zone, that’s just getting another thing off the checklist. Nerfing Orr has left Orr completely empty, and that didn’t help anything. That’s a terrible example.
The extra chance at yellows is something that hardly ever comes to fruition, so it is not enticing. Are you honestly arguing that there is plenty of reason for players to go back and do old DEs and re-explore the world that they’ve seen and done already? Because there’s nobody that does it.
And how do you propose to make EVERY zone more appealing. In fact, I’ll go one better. If Anet makes every zone more appealing all at the same time, you’ll have no one to play with in the world.
The problem is, the world is big. It really is. It’s bigger than most MMOs and all new MMOs. It’s a big, big world. So if you make it so everyone can go everywhere, then you’ll run into the problem of people not being able to find each other, because the population would be spread too thin.
It’s a big problem, and Anet isn’t the only MMO to suffer from it. Even World of Warcraft has dead zones on many servers, and they have 8.3 million active subscriptions.
You have people divided by server, and then divided by zone. People who do SPvP and WvW dont’ count toward the population of the world as a whole. People doing dungeons and fractals they dont’ count either. People in Lion’s Arch crafting or hanging out, they aren’t out in the zones. So the rest of the people, those left, can’t all go anywhere they want. Because if they did, they’d be too spread out and there wouldn’t be enough people.
The ONLY way MMOs get people together in large numbers is to A) force them into the same few zones (which is why so much of th world seems dead in so many MMOs) or
Give them stuff to do in certain areas where they’ll hopefully group.
I’m positive that making everything in every zone more rewarding so anyone can go anywhere won’t make the problem much better, but it could make it a whole lot worse.
Vayne: And how do you propose to make EVERY zone more appealing. In fact, I’ll go one better. If Anet makes every zone more appealing all at the same time, you’ll have no one to play with in the world.
I’m sorry, I’m the designer now? I can’t give opinions on how good or bad a system is after my own testing and gameplay if I’m not a designer? Look, I do have ideas for it. But I’m not going to go in-depth on that, because that doesn’t make my argument any more or less valid.
[i]Vayne: The problem is, the world is big. It really is. It’s bigger than most MMOs and all new MMOs. It’s a big, big world. So if you make it so everyone can go everywhere, then you’ll run into the problem of people not being able to find each other, because the population would be spread too thin.
It’s a big problem, and Anet isn’t the only MMO to suffer from it. Even World of Warcraft has dead zones on many servers, and they have 8.3 million active subscriptions.
You have people divided by server, and then divided by zone. People who do SPvP and WvW dont’ count toward the population of the world as a whole. People doing dungeons and fractals they dont’ count either. People in Lion’s Arch crafting or hanging out, they aren’t out in the zones. So the rest of the people, those left, can’t all go anywhere they want. Because if they did, they’d be too spread out and there wouldn’t be enough people.[/i]
So you would rather have people stay only wanting to do WvW, SPvP, sitting in Lion’s Arch, or only zoning out to go do dungeons, rather than even attempt to put them back into the open world? Because that is what ArenaNet wants. Players to go back out into the zones and explore them again. The attempt with the dailies was a pretty bad one, but it proves that it is what they want. There would definitely be enough people. I think you underestimate how many people actually bought GW2 and just quit because they had nothing to do in the game.
Vayne: The ONLY way MMOs get people together in large numbers is to A) force them into the same few zones (which is why so much of th world seems dead in so many MMOs) or Give them stuff to do in certain areas where they’ll hopefully group.
This is exactly what I am suggesting. Give players something to do, something to work towards in the zones, and they’ll wander into each other. Exactly like it was at launch when everybody was running into each other. World Bosses work out just fine, even though they’re in several zones. They have rewards that players want, and that’s why people do them.
Vayne: I’m positive that making everything in every zone more rewarding so anyone can go anywhere won’t make the problem much better, but it could make it a whole lot worse.
How could it make it worse? A majority of the zones are empty in a lot of servers, so if they remained empty, it wouldn’t be worse. It would be the same. But honestly, they wouldn’t be empty if they gave players a reason to go there.
twitch.tv/aliettefaye
(edited by AlietteFaye.7316)
Vayne: And how do you propose to make EVERY zone more appealing. In fact, I’ll go one better. If Anet makes every zone more appealing all at the same time, you’ll have no one to play with in the world.
I’m sorry, I’m the designer now? I can’t give opinions on how good or bad a system is after my own testing and gameplay if I’m not a designer? Look, I do have ideas for it. But I’m not going to go in-depth on that, because that doesn’t make my argument any more or less valid.
[i]Vayne: The problem is, the world is big. It really is. It’s bigger than most MMOs and all new MMOs. It’s a big, big world. So if you make it so everyone can go everywhere, then you’ll run into the problem of people not being able to find each other, because the population would be spread too thin.
It’s a big problem, and Anet isn’t the only MMO to suffer from it. Even World of Warcraft has dead zones on many servers, and they have 8.3 million active subscriptions.
You have people divided by server, and then divided by zone. People who do SPvP and WvW dont’ count toward the population of the world as a whole. People doing dungeons and fractals they dont’ count either. People in Lion’s Arch crafting or hanging out, they aren’t out in the zones. So the rest of the people, those left, can’t all go anywhere they want. Because if they did, they’d be too spread out and there wouldn’t be enough people.[/i]
So you would rather have people stay only wanting to do WvW, SPvP, sitting in Lion’s Arch, or only zoning out to go do dungeons, rather than even attempt to put them back into the open world? Because that is what ArenaNet wants. Players to go back out into the zones and explore them again. The attempt with the dailies was a pretty bad one, but it proves that it is what they want. There would definitely be enough people. I think you underestimate how many people actually bought GW2 and just quit because they had nothing to do in the game.
Vayne: The ONLY way MMOs get people together in large numbers is to A) force them into the same few zones (which is why so much of th world seems dead in so many MMOs) or
This is exactly what I am suggesting. Give players something to do, something to work towards in the zones, and they’ll wander into each other. Exactly like it was at launch when everybody was running into each other. World Bosses work out just fine, even though they’re in several zones. They have rewards that players want, and that’s why people do them.
Vayne: I’m positive that making everything in every zone more rewarding so anyone can go anywhere won’t make the problem much better, but it could make it a whole lot worse.
How could it make it worse? A majority of the zones are empty in a lot of servers, so if they remained empty, it wouldn’t be worse. It would be the same. But honestly, they wouldn’t be empty if they gave players a reason to go there.
It could make it worse by having not enough people in any zone and no crowds of people anywhere. Right now, there are places you can go where there will be people. If everything was equally rewarding the population with either spread to thin to be of help or people would just make their own gathering places, because it’s what people do.
Why did people meet at Kamadan in Guild Wars 1 to sell their stuff instead of any other outpost?
Because people gather. It’s what we do. We’re a social animal. Making the entire world equally rewarding will just create new hot spots and you’d have the same problem. And if it didn’t they’re would be enough people that thinly spread to make a difference.
i don’t know
P.S. Also a lot of people are playing only pvp or WvW because they got bored and got nothing to do with PvE, if there would be something to get them back into doing PvE….
(edited by serialkicker.5274)
i don’t know
Then it’s hard to be convincing. I think there are less people playing this game than you think. The game sold over 3 million copies. We know a lot of people don’t log in all the time and many left the game. We also know that you have to divide the population into server parks. Nothing that happens in Europe affects the US servers and vice versa.
Your situation might work if you have millions of people playing, but I really don’t think that’s the case. If players are divided evenly between Europe and the US and there’s a million people playing that’s 500,000 per server park.
That’s not a lot of people when you divide by servers, and then figure out how many people play casually and don’t log in every day or week to week.
My guild has a hundred people in it, but only 30 or so long in with any regularity. If that holds true for the rest of the population, start doing the math.
If you spread the population out into every zone you MIGHT see people on the busiest hours, but everyone else the rest of the time is completely screwed.
i don’t know
Then it’s hard to be convincing. I think there are less people playing this game than you think. The game sold over 3 million copies. We know a lot of people don’t log in all the time and many left the game. We also know that you have to divide the population into server parks. Nothing that happens in Europe affects the US servers and vice versa.
Your situation might work if you have millions of people playing, but I really don’t think that’s the case. If players are divided evenly between Europe and the US and there’s a million people playing that’s 500,000 per server park.
That’s not a lot of people when you divide by servers, and then figure out how many people play casually and don’t log in every day or week to week.
My guild has a hundred people in it, but only 30 or so long in with any regularity. If that holds true for the rest of the population, start doing the math.
If you spread the population out into every zone you MIGHT see people on the busiest hours, but everyone else the rest of the time is completely screwed.
So, there are even less people playing than others think? Does this not tell you something of the decisions that have been made and are continuing to be made?
Maybe it’s time to change that then, instead of saying “Well, let’s just continue to do the same thing we’ve been doing, because that’s working out great!”
i don’t know
Then it’s hard to be convincing. I think there are less people playing this game than you think. The game sold over 3 million copies. We know a lot of people don’t log in all the time and many left the game. We also know that you have to divide the population into server parks. Nothing that happens in Europe affects the US servers and vice versa.
Your situation might work if you have millions of people playing, but I really don’t think that’s the case. If players are divided evenly between Europe and the US and there’s a million people playing that’s 500,000 per server park.
That’s not a lot of people when you divide by servers, and then figure out how many people play casually and don’t log in every day or week to week.
My guild has a hundred people in it, but only 30 or so long in with any regularity. If that holds true for the rest of the population, start doing the math.
If you spread the population out into every zone you MIGHT see people on the busiest hours, but everyone else the rest of the time is completely screwed.
So, there are even less people playing than others think? Does this not tell you something of the decisions that have been made and are continuing to be made?
Maybe it’s time to change that then, instead of saying “Well, let’s just continue to do the same thing we’ve been doing, because that’s working out great!”
No, it doesn’t tell me anything, other than this is one of the most competitive gaming genres available. The MMO field is MASSIVELY overcrowded. There are so many games. So many new releases. And unlike other games. you’re not expected to play them for 20 hours and leave, so the problem compounds itself.
There hasn’t been a truly successful MMO in years, except for WoW and Eve. Rift started out okay, but they’re going free to play now due to lack of interest. And not only are there tons of MMOs out, there are tons of FREE MMOs out there.
You’re comparing a buy to play game to a free to play game, in a genre that many people still won’t embrace. I don’t see why you think that the problem is Guild Wars 2, when the problem has been every single MMO in the last five years….again except Eve.
Everyone is losing Market Share. There are so few MMOs that have a million players left. As more come out, the player base becomes more and more divided. This has nothing to do with design decisions. This has to do with new and shiny. Neverwinter was new and shiny and people will go check it out…particularly because it’s free. That’s the nature of the game.
Guild Wars 2 has done well to keep the player base it has, but it’s not millions of players. It was never going to be. If a huge superpower like SWToR and go free to play and not keep players, if WOW has lost well over a million people since the release of MoP (almost 2 million), if competition keeps coming out, how do you expect any game to maintain millions of players?
i don’t know
Then it’s hard to be convincing. I think there are less people playing this game than you think. The game sold over 3 million copies. We know a lot of people don’t log in all the time and many left the game. We also know that you have to divide the population into server parks. Nothing that happens in Europe affects the US servers and vice versa.
Your situation might work if you have millions of people playing, but I really don’t think that’s the case. If players are divided evenly between Europe and the US and there’s a million people playing that’s 500,000 per server park.
That’s not a lot of people when you divide by servers, and then figure out how many people play casually and don’t log in every day or week to week.
My guild has a hundred people in it, but only 30 or so long in with any regularity. If that holds true for the rest of the population, start doing the math.
If you spread the population out into every zone you MIGHT see people on the busiest hours, but everyone else the rest of the time is completely screwed.
Well, I’ve seen games that did poorly at release and they fixed the game and people came back and new people came too.
So, for start, anet should fix the kitten bugs already and balancing issues.
I quit the game for almost 3 months myself and just got back last week. And what i see? Almost every reason why i quit is still there. It really saddens me. And people are reporting bugs and giving suggestion and they barely do something about it. I know some things takes more time, but there are tons of stuff that could be fixed so easily and quick and it wasn’t.
So, if they would fix the game and add some good content that will not last for like a week and then got boring, then people would come back i’m sure.
i don’t know
Then it’s hard to be convincing. I think there are less people playing this game than you think. The game sold over 3 million copies. We know a lot of people don’t log in all the time and many left the game. We also know that you have to divide the population into server parks. Nothing that happens in Europe affects the US servers and vice versa.
Your situation might work if you have millions of people playing, but I really don’t think that’s the case. If players are divided evenly between Europe and the US and there’s a million people playing that’s 500,000 per server park.
That’s not a lot of people when you divide by servers, and then figure out how many people play casually and don’t log in every day or week to week.
My guild has a hundred people in it, but only 30 or so long in with any regularity. If that holds true for the rest of the population, start doing the math.
If you spread the population out into every zone you MIGHT see people on the busiest hours, but everyone else the rest of the time is completely screwed.
Well, I’ve seen games that did poorly at release and they fixed the game and people came back and new people came too.
So, for start, anet should fix the kitten bugs already and balancing issues.
I quit the game for almost 3 months myself and just got back last week. And what i see? Almost every reason why i quit is still there. It really saddens me. And people are reporting bugs and giving suggestion and they barely do something about it. I know some things takes more time, but there are tons of stuff that could be fixed so easily and quick and it wasn’t.So, if they would fix the game and add some good content that will not last for like a week and then got boring, then people would come back i’m sure.
Which MMOs would those be? I’m curious.
i don’t know
Then it’s hard to be convincing. I think there are less people playing this game than you think. The game sold over 3 million copies. We know a lot of people don’t log in all the time and many left the game. We also know that you have to divide the population into server parks. Nothing that happens in Europe affects the US servers and vice versa.
Your situation might work if you have millions of people playing, but I really don’t think that’s the case. If players are divided evenly between Europe and the US and there’s a million people playing that’s 500,000 per server park.
That’s not a lot of people when you divide by servers, and then figure out how many people play casually and don’t log in every day or week to week.
My guild has a hundred people in it, but only 30 or so long in with any regularity. If that holds true for the rest of the population, start doing the math.
If you spread the population out into every zone you MIGHT see people on the busiest hours, but everyone else the rest of the time is completely screwed.
So, there are even less people playing than others think? Does this not tell you something of the decisions that have been made and are continuing to be made?
Maybe it’s time to change that then, instead of saying “Well, let’s just continue to do the same thing we’ve been doing, because that’s working out great!”
No, it doesn’t tell me anything, other than this is one of the most competitive gaming genres available. The MMO field is MASSIVELY overcrowded. There are so many games. So many new releases. And unlike other games. you’re not expected to play them for 20 hours and leave, so the problem compounds itself.
There hasn’t been a truly successful MMO in years, except for WoW and Eve. Rift started out okay, but they’re going free to play now due to lack of interest. And not only are there tons of MMOs out, there are tons of FREE MMOs out there.
You’re comparing a buy to play game to a free to play game, in a genre that many people still won’t embrace. I don’t see why you think that the problem is Guild Wars 2, when the problem has been every single MMO in the last five years….again except Eve.
Everyone is losing Market Share. There are so few MMOs that have a million players left. As more come out, the player base becomes more and more divided. This has nothing to do with design decisions. This has to do with new and shiny. Neverwinter was new and shiny and people will go check it out…particularly because it’s free. That’s the nature of the game.
Guild Wars 2 has done well to keep the player base it has, but it’s not millions of players. It was never going to be. If a huge superpower like SWToR and go free to play and not keep players, if WOW has lost well over a million people since the release of MoP (almost 2 million), if competition keeps coming out, how do you expect any game to maintain millions of players?
I expect them to do well by focusing on what they do best. What GW2 does best, really, truly, best, is the journey. Look at the reviews, look at what the players say, look at the world as you level.
What kills games, especially mmo’s, is losing focus. What was WoW’s claim to fame? End game progression, challenge, and a feeling of accomplishment. Want to know what killed it for it’s core audience? Everyone and their mother walking around in welfare epics, the lfg/lfr/crz, frakking pokemon, oversimplification of skill trees, and the decision to go super casual. If they had stayed true to core concepts of the game, they would have never gone through these periods of losing huge chunks of their playerbase. Short term gain ended up being long term loss.
When you actively and energetically pursue things that are not in the core focus of your game, it will suffer.
(edited by killcannon.2576)
GW2 is the FIRST game I have played where at any time the game is taken down and fixes implemented. No waiting for a certain day of week to put them in place, we have them we are fixing them and we are doing it now. Sure often as they fix one bug another is set off but they do keep working on them.
I love watching people crying about no endgame in a pretty newly released game. The change in gamer expectancy is what has totally ruined the gaming community and meant we are now offered below par games. Way back when we fully expected to start playing a game and have a level cap at different levels…. 30, 50, 80, 120, 160, 200 etc. We played a game for years NOT weeks and we didnt cry when they gave us new content that increased the level cap or meant we had to buy new weapons and armour.
I remember on one game I played for nearly 18 months every day on the same map killing the same mobs waiting for the level cap to be raised. I didnt cry about no new content I was having way to much fun with all my mates tearing up the game and making money for when the new content was released