Commander Tag - Not a vanity feature!
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One should not be totally surprised that ArenaNet went with BLTC approved commander tags. While there are people that will have and use gold they’ve earned to acquire these tags – I believe the number of people that will purchase them with Gems alone or even Gem supplementation with their current funds will be high.
ArenaNet: Mo’ Money!!!
This is basic functionality.
No it isn’t. It is optional, or even advanced, functionality. If it were basic functionality we would not be able to play the game without it…and yet we have been doing so for two years now.
You entirely misunderstand the situation and I think you have never actually been a commander before to organize anything. Just because we have been making do with the system as it is for two years doesn’t mean it is “good enough”. Ask pretty much any commander who regularly tags in WvW and they will tell you the system is woefully under-developed and has been needing a proper rework since the games release. I argue that it’s lack of functionality is a core problem with WvW and why WvW pug commanders cannot do anything more ambitious than lead massive map blobs to every point. The instant a second blue tag pops on the map the cohesion of the strategy the commanders are attempting is muddied. Having multiple coloured tags with established ‘metaroles’ would alleviate this. Red = Offensive. Blue = Defensive, Purple = Guildraid and so on. Whatever, this may never happen and is wishful thinking. But my point is that the current system is not good enough in the eyes of most WvW commanders and even PvE commanders (of which i am included).
As a commander for a large EU worldboss community that regularly kills Wurm and Tequatl, I can tell you that the idea we could designate different coloured tags to different roles within the strategy fills me with untold excitement. The hardest job for a commander is getting his/her followers to understand the strategy. Having visual cues such as ingame, seperately coloured tags would help massively. Yes, we make do for now with the same coloured tags and have great successes. But that is not to say that we would not welcome expanded commander tag functionality.
@Hayashi
You describe the use of the commander tag in PvE very well. It is a fantastic reference point for players who would otherwise not know where to be and where to hit.
Wow, a 300g price for a functionality that should be earned, and not bought.
The tags could be earned through many various ways, such as Ranks and Achievements through various playstyles that GW2 offers in PvE and WvW. Organizing squads, leading temple runs and world boss encounters, as well as earning milestone markers via upgrades, such as the ones in the Guild Upgrades system, or the WvW system.
There are many possibilities to design this better, but it seems as if Anet wants to take the easy way out by putting price tags on everything. This CDI thread was pretty much useless: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Collaborative-Development-Commander-System/page/14#post3343318
I think the advanced colors should require DONATIONS from members of your squad.
How about we reward actually being a good Commander than just letting any yahoo BUY them? Not that I could do any better, but I’m sick of realizing how inept the sell appointed leader is after 10 minutes…..
As for, “the community will not stand for it!!”….gotta love a good barking dog….
Face it; Anet has a track record of turning things that sound cool into voracious insults.
Taking a added feature (no matter how poorly implemented) as a “voracious insult”, is a personal perception issue you should look into altering.
two commanders want to have another colour
one joins the other pays him the new colour and reverseputcome both have bought a colour…
wow stll just something too easy to obtainsure because of posers thisll become a huge goldsink
and due to inflation now 300gold isnt tat much anymore
really.. it shouldve been much moreid just wish some right klick i dont want to see THIS commander anymore
or a i dont want to see any commanders anymore
anyway..i think overall its okay for anet to rise the price
its quite nice that they told us that be4hand actually^^
Wow….your imagination (or lack thereof) on how this might work is staggering…..how about some LIMITS on the donations….like a 1g max from any ACCOUNT (just an example). The funds go directly to playing for a higher “ranking”.
Beyond an idiot just wasting 300g, the higher commander colors might just mean something…..and the suggestion of seperate ranking / colors for WvW / EotM / PvE are something to consider as well.
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
As a fellow Worldboss Commander for the same community as Noobix, I have to say I agree with the 300g per colour being a ridiculous gold sink. I understand the price being hiked for the tags being accountbound, but the multi-colour functionality should come as one package, and not as separate unlocks for 300g EACH. I personally would happily pay 500g! for the tags, if all five colours came together as one bundle. Then at least each colour would ‘cost’ the 100g each in line with the original tag price.
As a Worldboss commander, I’ve already bought four tags so I can lead on Tri-Wurm runs with various professions/use a character where I can condi or diboof yet still tag up if one of the leading commanders on a run should DC. The knowledge I will get the blue + one other colour of my choice at patch because I have four, does not change my view. I will still be looking at paying another 300g to get the yellow or red tag. That being so I have blue for Cobalt Wurm, red for Crimson Wurm, and Yellow for Amber Wurm depending on which I lead for any particular run.
It’s penalising those who would use the colours to improve the experience for players at coordinated events. Those who use tags for vanity will always do that, so there’s no reason to make things harder for the people who use them as they’re intended to be used.
I imagine the 300g per colour will also have a knock-on effect for any future Worldboss Commanders that our community trains. If we start using colours to denote the stacks for the different wurms, new commanders will be looking at a 900g barrier if they want to be able to tag up for any of the three leadership roles at the event. Instead they may find themselves restricted to one wurm, or two, because of being unable to afford more colours.
If it came to that, it would likely force us to start begging donations from the community’s player-base in order to buy tags for new Worldboss Commanders. But in a community that is open to all, where we ask nothing of the players but that they join us on Teamspeak for the events we run, asking them to pay for future commanders would for me, personally, run against the grain.
As a fellow Worldboss Commander for the same community as Noobix, I have to say I agree with the 300g per colour being a ridiculous gold sink. I understand the price being hiked for the tags being accountbound, but the multi-colour functionality should come as one package, and not as separate unlocks for 300g EACH.
I echo this sentiment, though going between 500g and 1500g seems more like haggling prices than the general principle behind it.
Actually, account binding isn’t even necessary. It’s helpful, but not necessary. I’d rather have the current system as it is in its soulbound form, and simply have colours added to its current state. If a higher price must be in line because of account binding, so be it, but charging a price per colour is ridiculous.
If this option were to be offered with minimal problems from people who already made multiple tags, the solution is simply to remove all tags from all players who have them now and refund the gold cost and BoH cost in the mail. Then add two forms of Commander’s Compendium – one for a single character, and one account-wide unlock. Maybe the account unlock can cost 500g or something.
Even though I’m an altoholic not all commanders are. At the moment Anet’s action is forcing players to pay 900-1200g for the full suite of abilities to be available to any character, but players who main only one character very successfully are paying the same insane cost as those who command across multiple characters. That’s not fair to them at all.
MIKAZUKI - [Aura, MES, WvW CapCOM] [Ishigaki, GUA, WvW DefCOM] [Yumiya, RAN, WvW Sieger]
[Shinigami, NEC, WvW Condinuke] [Rekka, ELE, Fracs] [Tora, PS WAR] [Kageoni, THI] [Hayako, ENG]
[Shinigami, NEC, WvW Condinuke] [Rekka, ELE, Fracs] [Tora, PS WAR] [Kageoni, THI] [Hayako, ENG]
(edited by Hayashi.3416)
To keep it a bit more upbeat: I am very excited that we are finally going to get tags in different colours!
In my opinion the implementation of the tags does not address the issue it is supposed to however. Multi-coloured tags were originally suggested to make it easier to organize maps for events or in world versus world, and to take away some of the confusion of having multiple tags on a map.
Sure this update will make it possible, but it will come at a cost of 1200-1500g, an amount that is prohibitively high and that discourages use of the system. The driver will now have to pay a legendary worth of gold to make it easier for the people following him to see where he is.
However excited I am that we are finally getting a much-requested feature, I am also furious at the way it is implemented! Release an expansion full of quality of life stuff and I will gladly pay for it, but please do not create an artificial barrier that discourages proper use of the quality of life feature that you are implementing.
Over 8 months later, 14 pages of constructive dialogue, and this is the best they come up with? Couldn’t they have at least made different icons for various purposes, such as PvE, WvW, Bosses, etc. and perhaps sub-icons for different aspects such as small groups, large groups, etc.?
This change is profoundly dumb.
You should scrap this idea and fire whoever came up with it.
When the news filtered through about the Commander Tag changes, the obligatory “That’ll be one thousand gems!” line we throw around when new stuff is coming was duly uttered. We laughed, as usual. Then we realised that our cynical joke was actually not as bad as the reality.
Over 8 months later, 14 pages of constructive dialogue, and this is the best they come up with? Couldn’t they have at least made different icons for various purposes, such as PvE, WvW, Bosses, etc. and perhaps sub-icons for different aspects such as small groups, large groups, etc.?
No man, that would make sense, they can’t do it.
This is basic functionality.
No it isn’t. It is optional, or even advanced, functionality. If it were basic functionality we would not be able to play the game without it…and yet we have been doing so for two years now.
You entirely misunderstand the situation and I think you have never actually been a commander before to organize anything. Just because we have been making do with the system as it is for two years doesn’t mean it is “good enough”. Ask pretty much any commander who regularly tags in WvW and they will tell you the system is woefully under-developed and has been needing a proper rework since the games release. I argue that it’s lack of functionality is a core problem with WvW and why WvW pug commanders cannot do anything more ambitious than lead massive map blobs to every point. The instant a second blue tag pops on the map the cohesion of the strategy the commanders are attempting is muddied. Having multiple coloured tags with established ‘metaroles’ would alleviate this. Red = Offensive. Blue = Defensive, Purple = Guildraid and so on. Whatever, this may never happen and is wishful thinking. But my point is that the current system is not good enough in the eyes of most WvW commanders and even PvE commanders (of which i am included).
As a commander for a large EU worldboss community that regularly kills Wurm and Tequatl, I can tell you that the idea we could designate different coloured tags to different roles within the strategy fills me with untold excitement. The hardest job for a commander is getting his/her followers to understand the strategy. Having visual cues such as ingame, seperately coloured tags would help massively. Yes, we make do for now with the same coloured tags and have great successes. But that is not to say that we would not welcome expanded commander tag functionality..
I don’t misunderstand at all. There is a rather large difference between something for which there is a use, something which would be helpful, something which would be nice to have, and something that is needed.
Similarly there is a huge difference between basic functionality and optional or advanced functionality. People have played without multicolored commander tags since the game launched. This demonstrates that they are not a need or inherent to the basic function of WvW/large event PvE.
I tend to think that raising the price for the one tag is reasonable but that the ability to change colors would better serve the intended function of the tag by being doable at will without additional cost.
Even so, hyperbole does not serve the argument. Claiming something that is clearly and demonstrably not the case, something that is obviously an overblown exaggeration, rather than a calm and reasoned presentation of one’s position makes the entire position seem unreasonable.
This is basic functionality.
No it isn’t. It is optional, or even advanced, functionality. If it were basic functionality we would not be able to play the game without it…and yet we have been doing so for two years now.
You entirely misunderstand the situation and I think you have never actually been a commander before to organize anything. Just because we have been making do with the system as it is for two years doesn’t mean it is “good enough”. Ask pretty much any commander who regularly tags in WvW and they will tell you the system is woefully under-developed and has been needing a proper rework since the games release. I argue that it’s lack of functionality is a core problem with WvW and why WvW pug commanders cannot do anything more ambitious than lead massive map blobs to every point. The instant a second blue tag pops on the map the cohesion of the strategy the commanders are attempting is muddied. Having multiple coloured tags with established ‘metaroles’ would alleviate this. Red = Offensive. Blue = Defensive, Purple = Guildraid and so on. Whatever, this may never happen and is wishful thinking. But my point is that the current system is not good enough in the eyes of most WvW commanders and even PvE commanders (of which i am included).
As a commander for a large EU worldboss community that regularly kills Wurm and Tequatl, I can tell you that the idea we could designate different coloured tags to different roles within the strategy fills me with untold excitement. The hardest job for a commander is getting his/her followers to understand the strategy. Having visual cues such as ingame, seperately coloured tags would help massively. Yes, we make do for now with the same coloured tags and have great successes. But that is not to say that we would not welcome expanded commander tag functionality..
I don’t misunderstand at all. There is a rather large difference between something for which there is a use, something which would be helpful, something which would be nice to have, and something that is needed.
Similarly there is a huge difference between basic functionality and optional or advanced functionality. People have played without multicolored commander tags since the game launched. This demonstrates that they are not a need or inherent to the basic function of WvW/large event PvE.
I tend to think that raising the price for the one tag is reasonable but that the ability to change colors would better serve the intended function of the tag by being doable at will without additional cost.
Even so, hyperbole does not serve the argument. Claiming something that is clearly and demonstrably not the case, something that is obviously an overblown exaggeration, rather than a calm and reasoned presentation of one’s position makes the entire position seem unreasonable.
2 years later. A lengthy CDI post over 8 months ago. Countless suggestions, which were constructive. People have been reasonable, and patient all this time, so no, i don’t think the playerbase is being unreasonable at all. There isn’t any hyperbole at all.
[…]
Similarly there is a huge difference between basic functionality and optional or advanced functionality. People have played without multicolored commander tags since the game launched. This demonstrates that they are not a need or inherent to the basic function of WvW/large event PvE.
[…]
They are necessary, because if you join a squad, the other badges disappear. So you can’t know where that other squad is.
Instead of that, badges should have different colors AND shapes to tell them apart, and be visible for other players in the map even if they are in another squad, and across maps for players in that squad.
Now, additional colors are mere vanity feature with no real utility as a commander won’t be spending all the gold they need for siege in some color. Not because they do not need to. Because it’s just a stupid, ludicrous price. For something that should be earned with actions, not bought with coin.
Hell, in my world there’s tons of commanders that won’t even have a badge on because when they bought used it another character and they play mainly with a different character, and won’t ever make enough coin in WvW because siege is another misplaced gold sink.
WvW should not be about who can throw more gold around.
WvW commanders are not rich. PvE commanders are not rich.
The guys with the most coin in the game are the ones that spend most of their time where you don’t need a commander badge: By a trading post NPC, by a craftin station, and inside an instance.
Whoever is in charge of setting costs in this game is not in touch with the reality of the game, and speaks badly of whoever was in charge of putting that person in charge of that.
Well, I’m at least happy they’re making it account bound. Most who had the gold to drop into a tag would probably say it’s not difficult to make money, but money making skills wouldn’t denote leadership skills.
2 years later. A lengthy CDI post over 8 months ago. Countless suggestions, which were constructive. People have been reasonable, and patient all this time, so no, i don’t think the playerbase is being unreasonable at all. There isn’t any hyperbole at all.
No amount of time passing, no amount of discussion, no number of suggestions alters the fact that a claim that alternate colors of tags are needed, necessary, or basic functionality for WvW is hyperbole.
If they were basic functionality, necessary, or needed then the game mode would not function without them. As was stated by the OP the existing functionality has been used with great success. That would not be possible if the claim I pointed out was not exaggeration/hyperbole.
Do the colored tag options have the possibility to be very useful ?
Do they have the potential to revolutionize large group play ?
Do they have the potential to make commanding an easier task ?
Are they a requested feature ?
Yes to all of the above. None of those points make them a necessity or a basic function of the game or its game modes.
to be frank i kinda agree with the OP.
it would be better if they upped the price of obtaining the commander per se than selling selling the whole commander system in a divide and conqer system.
By raising the price and integrating the new systems they could achieve the reduce in gold in the economy and reducing the number of new coms with no clues …
Ever been in a 10 com Teq attempt? or in a regular 4 com one where none of the com’s actually knew what to do? Quite frustrating … i don’t have com but i knew what to do, lets just say they ignored me because i have no Com
2 years later. A lengthy CDI post over 8 months ago. Countless suggestions, which were constructive. People have been reasonable, and patient all this time, so no, i don’t think the playerbase is being unreasonable at all. There isn’t any hyperbole at all.
No amount of time passing, no amount of discussion, no number of suggestions alters the fact that a claim that alternate colors of tags are needed, necessary, or basic functionality for WvW is hyperbole.
If they were basic functionality, necessary, or needed then the game mode would not function without them. As was stated by the OP the existing functionality has been used with great success. That would not be possible if the claim I pointed out was not exaggeration/hyperbole.
Do the colored tag options have the possibility to be very useful ?
Do they have the potential to revolutionize large group play ?
Do they have the potential to make commanding an easier task ?
Are they a requested feature ?Yes to all of the above. None of those points make them a necessity or a basic function of the game or its game modes.
That’s where you’re wrong.
They were originally intended for WvW, to lead groups, but it has failed with it’s current implementation. That was the basic functionality that it was supposed to be.
If you really wanted to break it down though, their only function is to rally people to them. That’s it. That’s not a game-mode. It’s just a mobile waypoint, without the functionality of teleporting to it.
How can you say it’s been a “great success” though? It’s been a failure. Commanders use the tag for vanity status, by idling in cities, doing personal story, harvesting, trolling, etc. I’ve seen this many times.
Other commanders lead groups to their deaths all the time, without a plan or strategy, because they think all they need is a zerg. They don’t have mastery ranks, siege weapons, or tactics.
There isn’t a “basic” functionality to it at all. There is no standard as to how it can be used. Their basic functionality are like Titles, except the icon is above your name, and not below it. The other options are the ability to be in a squad, but it’s no different than being in a regular group.
It is mainly the same people writing in all of those threads complaining about this change after all, so I wouldn’t really say the community overall (not even the forum one) is up in arms about it.
Only a number of people are against the change, so I can entirely dismiss them and their argument on my baseless assumption only.
You don’t know the numbers, you haven’t asked every single forumer. So trying to discredit someone’s point of view by claiming that it’s shared only by a minority is not only a fallacy, but it’s dishonest.
If you can’t come with any decent argument other than “Almighty Arenanet knows more than us and works in mysterious ways, so they are right and you are wrong” please avoid posting entirely. I’m getting fed up with people defending for the sole reason of defending.
Also nice to see that other guy I won’t name but you will spot it with his agenda-driven baseless bashing on PvP players. See, this guy has a bad attitude and is a PvP player, so this is the sole reason people don’t play PvP. Brilliant.
These forums ¯\(?)/¯
“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
(edited by Wolfheart.1938)
2 years later. A lengthy CDI post over 8 months ago. Countless suggestions, which were constructive. People have been reasonable, and patient all this time, so no, i don’t think the playerbase is being unreasonable at all. There isn’t any hyperbole at all.
No amount of time passing, no amount of discussion, no number of suggestions alters the fact that a claim that alternate colors of tags are needed, necessary, or basic functionality for WvW is hyperbole.
They may not be a “basic” functionality, but they are needed. Yes, people made do without them – just like people in PvE managed without LFG system before one got introduced, for example. Still, claiming that this functionality is not needed is at least as big exagerration (if not bigger) as the one you aim to point out.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
-snip-
Similarly there is a huge difference between basic functionality and optional or advanced functionality. People have played without multicolored commander tags since the game launched. This demonstrates that they are not a need or inherent to the basic function of WvW/large event PvE.
-snip
Even so, hyperbole does not serve the argument. Claiming something that is clearly and demonstrably not the case, something that is obviously an overblown exaggeration, rather than a calm and reasoned presentation of one’s position makes the entire position seem unreasonable.
Many commanders would argue whether selectable coloured tags count as basic functionality or not. Again, just because the feature is not in the game yet doesn’t mean it hasn’t been sorely missed. I think the commander tag is one of the aspects holding back GW2’s WvW from becoming the ultimate of RvR in the industry (among other glaring issues of course such as PPT system and coverage). When we finally get the tags, would the WvW and group PvE communities be fine with it if they were removed a month later? They were getting along just fine for the last 2 years right?
Also, please stop trying to undermine my argument by claiming it is exaggerated. To you I may seem overzealous or ‘making up facts’ or whatever. But as the forums have demonstrated there are very different schools of thought on the subject and not everybody even agrees what the role of the commander tag is in the first place. For me I am very passionate about this aspect of the game. Organising group play is what keeps me playing.
That said, I %100 agree with your point about increased costs being ok but selectable colour at will and for free being the way forward. We can disagree on this being ‘core’ or ‘optional/advanced’ functionality until this thread is locked. Maybe a better way for me to describe it to make you happier would be to call it ‘necessary’ functionality. I hope we can both agree on that.
(edited by Noobix.3958)
Forget it, the rewards have been terrible for a long time.
- Dungeon rewards are not correct (easier stuff gives you more gold than kittenes)
- PvE is all about farming champions if you want money (no incentive to do other events, just farm champion bags)
- Fractals got awesome updates, but there’s no real reason to do high level ones since the most desired rewards are RNG gated (skins, rings, ascended boxes)
- WvW rewards are terrible. You don’t get much from killing invaders, and taking objectives (which takes time, gold, and a group of people) gives you nothing more than a champion box
PvP is a different story, I don’t think it should be profitable, so it’s OK right now
What bothers me is that you have 2 options if you want something: be lucky or buy it for a lot of gold. That’s because this game is B2P, so they have to make money somehow, but we are indirectly being forced to buy gold with gems because getting what we want is virtually impossible with such low chances/bad rewards.
I say this because I care about the game, I want to keep playing it, but I don’t feel like spending money to buy a shining weapon/stronger armor, I’d rather play another hundred of hours doing challenging tasks to prove my worth
The colours should be free after forking out 100g. After that Anet should have got off their lazy kitten s and made commander symbols that were desirable like a little skull and crossbones (colourable from original tag colours obviously) or a Jack O Lantern at Halloween then fine and let mugs buy them to show off how much gold they have!
…but to shaft commanders like this is horrific. What’s next Anet, commanders who haven’t sank enough cash after having the blue one for a while gets it removed and making them homeless? Scum moves!
I can’t believe the defense of this
As usual it’s the least work possible for the most financial gain and people still take one in the chest for ANet!
Well i guess the only thing we can do now is wait until the 20th to see what the official post has to say. I hope they address some of the issues and concerns in this thread and others.
I don’t expect Anet to justify every unpopular action but some back and forth communication goes a long way.
I highly support that they should give all color free to the people already have commander tag now! Because when I bought the tag, gold to gem was 1gold = 120gem!
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