Guild Wars 2

@Savoy.6824 Did I say they didn’t change their minds? Anywhere? No.

I just said I didn’t believe that they would charge 300 for each color when it all came down.

jheryn.8390:

As I said above, to many people were crying “The sky is falling” before they got the official word.

I honestly never believed that each color would cost 300g and nowhere was it said absolutely that was what was going to happen.

It was just confirmed that indeed they were going to cost 300g per color, but the feedback changed their mind. Which, as i have already said, is a pleasant surprise.

@jheryn no but you told me this yesterday.

“Please… “Everybody tell us what you think and we will get it all handled 10 minutes before release so everybody can have everything they want!””

while debating me on the benefits of having time to collaborate with the devs before the patch drops. Again, Im glad we have impassioned players who come at them with hard words instead of a bunch of white knights who defend the decisions they make.

Savoy.6824:

@jheryn no but you told me this yesterday.

“Please… “Everybody tell us what you think and we will get it all handled 10 minutes before release so everybody can have everything they want!””

while debating me on the benefits of having time to collaborate with the devs before the patch drops. Again, Im glad we have impassioned players who come at them with hard words instead of a bunch of white knights who defend the decisions they make.

Oh please….

Even a lot of the people stupidly labeled as “white knights” criticize some of the decisions made. Stop labeling people! Just because someone can rationalize why something was done, does not mean they necessarily agree with it.

Where is the green commander tag? All I see are blue, yellow, purple and red. You might as well put up a sign saying “No Irish Allowed”. The outrage!!

;)

shogei.8015:

Where is the green commander tag? All I see are blue, yellow, purple and red. You might as well put up a sign saying “No Irish Allowed”. The outrage!!

;)

Yeah no, that will come in the next feature patch including new symbols (four leaf clover) for 600g. But don’t complain when everyone comes from across the map to tag touch you!

May the luck of the irish be with you.

Rouven.7409:

shogei.8015:

Where is the green commander tag? All I see are blue, yellow, purple and red. You might as well put up a sign saying “No Irish Allowed”. The outrage!!

;)

Yeah no, that will come in the next feature patch including new symbols (four leaf clover) for 600g. But don’t complain when everyone comes from across the map to tag touch you!

May the luck of the irish be with you.

And suddenly I miss touch rangers…

@LanfearShadowflame.3189 Most of the things you see me complain about on these forums that the designers get wrong are common sense. Perplexity runes in Spvp was a blatantly bad idea as was 300 gold per color tag. So, even though I am a rational and logical person, I can in no way rationalize how they ever thought their implementation of the systems that I complain about (not all their systems, 80% of the game is good) is adequate. When Im right and I know Im right I use direct very direct language to communicate how wrong the other person is. And Im glad we have other informed people on these forums who do the same because without them we would probably be paying 300 gold per color. Maybe I should work on delivering my messages in a more friendly manner but its hard when they give you so little time to provide them with feed back and when the mistake they are making is so blatantly obvious. Again, my request is for more time, and more collaboration. Give us these things and the number of “pricks” on this forum will go down.

@jheryn.8390 I actually wasnt calling you a white knight man nor was I implying it. I do get how you could think that but I dont consider you to be one. The people who I am referring to are much worse than you. You seem to be able to put together coherent albeit wrong arguments. You say I need to stop justifying my position but all the evidence points to me being right. How do we benefit from less time to talk with the devs? Im seriously asking you a question here. You say they need to stop talking with us and just launch it already. I say we need some padding because of mistakes like these. Show me an example of you being right and Ill shut up.

@jheryn also you keep saying that its what I want. Its not what I want. Its what the experts “the player base” wants. Im not the only one asking for it. You yourself said you would like it to be how it is now. I havnt read any of you post on the matter except for the discussion between me and you. And from that I gathered that you asked nicely for it and that I, it seems, according to you that I asked rudely for it.

Also how does this come off as scolding “If you didnt release the patch 4 days after you were done with announcing all the changes, you wouldnt have to work all weekend to fix your features the way the community wants them. We would have more time to discuss them with you and you could have more time to make the changes. In the future, layout all the features for us then give us a two week time to debate and discuss them with us then, after two weeks, roll the patch out.” Isnt that just logic? Is there a fallacy in my statement? Is it not true that they would have more time if they gave themselves more time?

Savoy.6824:

@LanfearShadowflame.3189 Most of the things you see me complain about on these forums that the designers get wrong are common sense.

Common sense, doesn’t exist anymore, hadn’t you heard?
But, that’s beside the point. Your original point (if you will) was that “white knights” aren’t “impassioned players” and don’t “come at them with hard words,” which is actually quite false. That’s what was being discussed. That really has nothing to do with your specific complaints as no one was classifying you as a “white knight.” I was merely addressing your misconception of the very inaccurate label that people get slapped with.

When Im right and I know Im right

How’s the air up there? Getting a little thin yet?
While I don’t argue that Anet has made some less than stellar decisions, and I have argued right along with others in opposition to some of them, we do still need keep in mind that we don’t work there and we don’t have the bigger picture. We may not think something is a good choice, but in the long run it actually turns out it is. We lack the broader view that someone on the inside has. So blatantly making the statement that you know you’re right, may in fact be false. Don’t assume.

I use direct very direct language to communicate how wrong the other person is. And Im glad we have other informed people on these forums who do the same because without them we would probably be paying 300 gold per color. Maybe I should work on delivering my messages in a more friendly manner but its hard when they give you so little time to provide them with feed back and when the mistake they are making is so blatantly obvious. Again, my request is for more time, and more collaboration. Give us these things and the number of “pricks” on this forum will go down.

You do realize that it is because the forums have a tendency to erupt like Mt Saint Helen that they don’t talk to us, right? If we had more people that did take the time to breathe, chill out, and then broach their concern in a calm, rational way, they might be more inclined to discuss things with us. At which point, yeah, we’ll get more input on future items. However, it’s never going to happen if people keep lashing out first and thinking after.

Also “Learn to english” is a meme. Its lol cat speak. heres an example:
http://www.picturesnew.com/media/images/moon-moon.png

Its funny when youre not in rage mode. Carry on.

Savoy.6824:

@jheryn.8390 I actually wasnt calling you a white knight man nor was I implying it. I do get how you could think that but I dont consider you to be one. The people who I am referring to are much worse than you. You seem to be able to put together coherent albeit wrong arguments. You say I need to stop justifying my position but all the evidence points to me being right. How do we benefit from less time to talk with the devs? Im seriously asking you a question here. You say they need to stop talking with us and just launch it already. I say we need some padding because of mistakes like these. Show me an example of you being right and Ill shut up.

Ok, so I’m not a white knight but if I don’t agree with you I am wrong? Seriously? Do you know how arrogant you sound saying that?

I already said it twice now, but at some point, they have to stop taking feedback and implement content into the game. I guess you don’t understand that 1. Not all people want or like what you want or like and 2. What you want or like isn’t always the “right” thing to do.

You said that they SHOULD inform us on what they want to implement in game two weeks before they do in order for players give feedback.

Whose feedback do they have to listen to and make changes based upon?

You want an example? There were those that were fine with 300g commander tags and those that hated it. Who are they supposed to listen to? So they listen for two weeks are they supposed to get your final approval after making their changes? That is two more weeks of listening again to feeback on the revisions? When does it stop? When you finally get your way? What if they listened to everyone for your infinite amount of two week feedback times and the community was split on what to do? What if they decided after that to still make each color cost 300g? Are they still wrong because they didn’t do what you wanted but the other 50% did.

Obviously there were very few (including myself) that would have been fine with 300g tag. But if the community is divided, when does the feedback stop and they implement something?

Another is maybe they try something just to see what feedback will be AFTER it is implemented. Another is what about those that want to be surprised? Feedback isn’t bad at all, but it doesn’t have to occur on everything they do. They don’t need our approval for anything they do, so you ought to be grateful that they let us give them feedback at all.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You do realize that it is because the forums have a tendency to erupt like Mt Saint Helen that they don’t talk to us, right? If we had more people that did take the time to breathe, chill out, and then broach their concern in a calm, rational way, they might be more inclined to discuss things with us. At which point, yeah, we’ll get more input on future items. However, it’s never going to happen if people keep lashing out first and thinking after.

This isn’t a good excuse. Amidst the volcanic eruption, I see plenty of people who are giving feedback in a calm and tempered way. Those of us who are calm can’t do anything about those who aren’t and those who aren’t are probably not going to 180 their behavior patterns because of a weak argument that doing so will get us more dev interaction.

Savoy.6824:

Also how does this come off as scolding [SNIP]

Maybe scolding wasn’t the right word. Maybe patronizing, entitled or condescending would be better.

You said:
But, this should be a cautionary tale for you. If you didnt release the patch 4 days after you were done with announcing all the changes, you wouldnt have to work all weekend to fix your features the way the community wants them. We would have more time to discuss them with you and you could have more time to make the changes.

You also said:
In the future, layout all the features for us then give us a two week time to debate and discuss them with us then, after two weeks, roll the patch out.

Nope, leave scolding in there too. Can you not see how it is overbearing for you to say such things?

And I did way in on how I felt about what the commander tags cost. I said I didn’t think it would wind up costing 300g per color.

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but how about giving the commander tag and option so that it would only be visible to your own guild ?Something like a guild tag
The whole idea of associating tags with colors according to the type of commander you are e.g. red offensive blue defensive is great but what if I wanted to run a small 10-15 havoc group

Labjax.2465:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You do realize that it is because the forums have a tendency to erupt like Mt Saint Helen that they don’t talk to us, right? If we had more people that did take the time to breathe, chill out, and then broach their concern in a calm, rational way, they might be more inclined to discuss things with us. At which point, yeah, we’ll get more input on future items. However, it’s never going to happen if people keep lashing out first and thinking after.

This isn’t a good excuse. Amidst the volcanic eruption, I see plenty of people who are giving feedback in a calm and tempered way. Those of us who are calm can’t do anything about those who aren’t and those who aren’t are probably not going to 180 their behavior patterns because of a weak argument that doing so will get us more dev interaction.

No excuse is a good excuse honestly, but in some instances it can at least be understood. You are correct that those of us that are calm can’t do anything about those who aren’t; however, this still makes talking to us a minefield for Anet. Sometimes, the best means of navigating that mine field is simply to say nothing at all rather than potentially setting off a disastrous chain reaction. I don’t like it, you don’t like it, but it’s not our choice.

I am CALM!

Please label me henceforth as the purple commander.

@ Life – in the meantime I just hope that there will be a certain consensus in PvE, I don’t know, traditional champ train stays blue, guild events use red … argh, more options and yet not enough

Rouven.7409:

Please label me henceforth as the purple commander.

Stop squeezing so hard. You’d think that would hurt….

:p

@jheryn Man youre kinda straw manning my argument. Your putting words in my mouth making my argument easier to attack. I said only two weeks. No more, maybe less if a resolution can be reached faster. And Im not talking about everything just the things that are blatantly wrong. How do you determine the things that are blatantly wrong. Well it seems pretty clear to me. The things the entire community cries out for like this tag thing, like the perplexity rune thing. Dont hit every single change. We obviously dont need to discuss the tool tip changes. Again, its going to take a little common sense and it will not be perfect but it would be better than what they did this time. I told you they already did it the right way the last time they rolled out a feature patch. They just need to do it they way they did it back in april. Thats the hilariousness of it all. Im just telling them to do what they did last time because what they did last time more or less worked. It wasnt perfect. They had some megaserver issues and they still do but atleast the community had a chance to talk with them and get them to roll back some things. They are rolling some things back here too and its great, but I am still concerned about the announcements that are still to come. I am concerned because we will have less time to talk with them about it.

@life, Guild commander tags have been mentioned. I myself brought it up during the CDI. While I dont have the quote for you I did read somewhere that it is still something they want to do but dont have ready for this patch. But they are working on it.

Tag this as a time when ANet listened.

I think that there should be some trials for commanders ? There are to much commanders around and the price of 300g for account bout is a fair price.

Now if they could add some shapes and also allow a commander to make lieutenants tags within his squad. This means something like, Commander X wants Silly Billy to break off his 5 man party from the squad(not leaving the squad) and try to take a supply camp. Commander X types in “/promote Silly Billy”. Silly Billy get a Single bar Dorito that he does not have to pay any gold for as long as he stays in commander x’s squad he keeps that tag unless commander x realizes Silly Billy really is Silly and “/demote Silly Billy”.

This way Commander X will see all of his lieutenants on map and can coordinate them and his squad to do a much more complicated attack plan. Imagine one group that is small leads the enemy zerg into a narrow choke point heading right to Commander X’s main squad while, before they ram into each other he can instruct his second lieutenant to come in from behind to seal their retreat path and his third to stay to his rear if things don’t go as expected he can call a retreat into the other group reinforcing his ranks and also fooling the opponents commander into following him further making the trap snap tightly closed.

Of course yes three Commanders can all work on the same area and coordinate….will this happen remains to be seen…..

Savoy.6824:

@jheryn Man youre kinda straw manning my argument. Your putting words in my mouth making my argument easier to attack. I said only two weeks. No more, maybe less if a resolution can be reached faster. And Im not talking about everything just the things that are blatantly wrong. How do you determine the things that are blatantly wrong. Well it seems pretty clear to me. The things the entire community cries out for like this tag thing, like the perplexity rune thing. Dont hit every single change. We obviously dont need to discuss the tool tip changes. Again, its going to take a little common sense and it will not be perfect but it would be better than what they did this time. I told you they already did it the right way the last time they rolled out a feature patch. They just need to do it they way they did it back in april. Thats the hilariousness of it all. Im just telling them to do what they did last time because what they did last time more or less worked. It wasnt perfect. They had some megaserver issues and they still do but atleast the community had a chance to talk with them and get them to roll back some things. They are rolling some things back here too and its great, but I am still concerned about the announcements that are still to come. I am concerned because we will have less time to talk with them about it.

You said two weeks then change this last time. The first time you said when you want to release something you need to give the community time to review it and make changes. So they would never get to release something if they had to get “permission” to do so every time because each revision would have to be discussed by your reasoning. But yes, you did say two weeks then change the last time.

And again though I have asked you before, who decides who or what is “blatantly wrong”? I suppose you are the determiner for right and wrong. You seem to hold your opinion as the gold standard to which we all must aspire since anyone that disagrees with you or does something you don’t like is “wrong”.

They absolutely did a good thing by changing the cost of the commander tags. I am glad they did that, but it isn’t, by any stretch of the most egotistical imagination, right or wrong to consult the community on what they release. That is simply your opinion. What they choose to let us know is a gift and we should take advantage when they do. We have no right to tell them how they should conduct their business.

Did it ever occur to you that they may NOT share some information for a reason?

Arcadio.6875:

From the WvW forum…

“Hi Guys,
Just wanted to clarify that we did indeed change our plans based on your feedback. What was said during the interviews at Gamescom was correct at the time but after listening to what you had to say we decided to make a change to the feature be in line with what you felt was a more balanced approach to the change.
Thank you very much for your feedback and we hope that you enjoy this upcoming change.
Thanks,
John”

Edit: Also from the WvW forums…

“I’m just going to squash this rumor right now. Before the strong negative feedback received after the interview at gamescom, every intention was for each color to cost 300g. Pending QA, that version was ready to ship for the feature pack.
When the flood of feedback came in, there was a flurry of emails working out the best course of action, and in the end Zach and Tyler worked the weekend to make sure this change could be made on time for 9/9.”

TY Anet for listening to your player communities at least sometimes ;-)

so if I buy a commander tag now for 100g to get a blue one, will I get to choose a new color after the patch or will it still be blue?

Jado Cast.1805:

so if I buy a commander tag now for 100g to get a blue one, will I get to choose a new color after the patch or will it still be blue?

I would assume so as it states you are grandfathered into the new system.