Guild Wars 2

Ohoni.6057:

No doubt someone will say but you never did idea ‘x’ or idea ‘Y’ !!!!

Well that’s one of the reasons why we are reluctant to talk about the road map and secondarily we don’t always agree with what some want but we always stay informed.

Look. Some people are going to be upset no matter what you do. Promise something and never deliver? People will be upset. Never promise anything, leaving the future a murky Sargasso? People will be upset. So ignore that people will be upset and do what’s right. If you promise things and you have a good reason for not delivering, just explain what that reason is, any sensible players will understand and move on.

“Sorry, we planned to do X, but then we decided that Y would be a better idea, and it made X obsolete/impossible/time consuming, so we abandoned it and moved on to Z instead.”

So long as you’re open and honest with us, the bulk of the players will understand, and maybe suggest ways to make X still work, or improve Z to make it more like X, or who knows what we can accomplish together. You know how tons of bugs are never found until a million players are crawling over the new content? Sometimes design ideas are the same way, and the earlier you can get players crawling over the ideas, the sooner potential directions can become apparent. There have been plenty of features that have gone live, or nearly gone live, only for players to point out why that was a bad idea in the first place and it takes a while to fix it.

In any case, this game needs to do a better job of giving players hope. It needs to present a more distant future, however vague, that is more than two weeks out. We need to know where this game is headed in the long term, rather than just wandering in a fog. I’ve said this before, but it’s like on the West Wing, where the President said that sometimes you have to throw your hat over the wall, to make a declaration of intent, so that people know that you’re actually striving towards something and not just floating in place.

We know that you have a policy to not talk about things until they’re ready to launch, but that policy is toxic, and it needs to go.

QFT. This is exactly how I feel.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Zok.4956:

A good designed customer survey can be a very informative and powerful instrument for a company. Please do not trivialize it.

I think you don’t get what I was trying to say. My point is that the outcome of a survey could make more peope unhappy because of the shift in development which would result.

The goal is not to make everyone happy, because that is not possible. The goal is to understand (as a company) the customer better, to deliver products that satisfies the customer better (not every customer but most/a lot of customers).

So overall, the result (when it is done right) of a survey would be “more customer happiness” which results normally in “more revenue for the company”.

Of course, nothing prevents some to make errors, misinterpret results and to draw the wrong conclusions. But if you expect already that everyhing will be done wrong than there is no point in a discussion to improve things.

Greetings.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Ohoni.6057:

snip

And what if the results would look like this?:

A. SAB World 3 —> 32%
B. An Aetherblade Retreat style dungeon --> 40%
C. A Not So Secret-like jumping puzzle in the new zone —>28%

Quite even results. Furthermore, the survey (when holding on to the policy) would more look like this:

A. SAB World 3
B. ?? can’t talk about future projects
C. ?? can’t talk about future projects

There’s so many things that could go wrong with a poll that it’s not even funny.

Anyone remember the aftermath of Kiel vs Evon? We literally had people on the forum calling everyone who did not vote for Evon brainless idiots. And it lasted for a while, too. Not to mention that when it was actually implemented, the backlash was revived. And that’s just a single Fractal, not an entire design direction.

And if the internet has taught us anything, it’s that if there is a poll somewhere, it’s easy to manipulate it to have pretty much any result you desire. If you don’t believe me, just look at what 4chan has done to some polls that they decided to troll. And it’s not like people couldn’t find scripts that would automatically spam votes for their cause. So a poll could easily be trolled into meaninglessness. Or it could be nothing but a representation of the obsession of one side over the others.

The thing is, summarizing is a skill. However, there are some things that simply cannot be summarized to a few short lines. There are things which should not be summarized. There are things which require a lot of words. Just because you don’t have to patience to read something doesn’t mean there is no value in it. Just because you don’t want to read something doesn’t mean there is no value in it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Communication isn’t only hearing what you want to hear.

This is a super important point on both sides.

Chris

Communication also isn’t saying only what you want to say, or avoiding topics that may upset the other person. (Well as long as what is being said is constructive and not insulting).

Does the policy prevent you from talking about things for which you have stopped working on? You can tell us, if you stopped working on something, and it will upset some (like with SAB). But at least we will be informed and we will have been treated with respect instead of being ignored.

Ohoni.6057:

No doubt someone will say but you never did idea ‘x’ or idea ‘Y’ !!!!

Well that’s one of the reasons why we are reluctant to talk about the road map and secondarily we don’t always agree with what some want but we always stay informed.

Look. Some people are going to be upset no matter what you do. Promise something and never deliver? People will be upset. Never promise anything, leaving the future a murky Sargasso? People will be upset. So ignore that people will be upset and do what’s right. If you promise things and you have a good reason for not delivering, just explain what that reason is, any sensible players will understand and move on.

“Sorry, we planned to do X, but then we decided that Y would be a better idea, and it made X obsolete/impossible/time consuming, so we abandoned it and moved on to Z instead.”

So long as you’re open and honest with us, the bulk of the players will understand, and maybe suggest ways to make X still work, or improve Z to make it more like X, or who knows what we can accomplish together. You know how tons of bugs are never found until a million players are crawling over the new content? Sometimes design ideas are the same way, and the earlier you can get players crawling over the ideas, the sooner potential directions can become apparent. There have been plenty of features that have gone live, or nearly gone live, only for players to point out why that was a bad idea in the first place and it takes a while to fix it.

In any case, this game needs to do a better job of giving players hope. It needs to present a more distant future, however vague, that is more than two weeks out. We need to know where this game is headed in the long term, rather than just wandering in a fog. I’ve said this before, but it’s like on the West Wing, where the President said that sometimes you have to throw your hat over the wall, to make a declaration of intent, so that people know that you’re actually striving towards something and not just floating in place.

We know that you have a policy to not talk about things until they’re ready to launch, but that policy is toxic, and it needs to go.

Exactly, I 100% agree. “Quoted for extreme truth”, as the kids say.* Darned if you do, double-darned if you don’t.

Note: * They may not actually say this. I’m too old for this internet thing, it’ll never catch on.

Edit: really, you say kitten instead of the word for “condemned to hell”? Ok… seems mild to me but, darn it all to heck, I’ll play along.

One of the most powerful tools we could use as individual communities is our own discussions. We could easily document individual group discussions and bring them back here. I’m going to try and organize a discussion group on our server once this CDI kicks off, gather the feedback and present it to the thread. Not sure how successful that will be, but it’s worth a shot.

Quite even results. Furthermore, the survey (when holding on to the policy) would more look like this:

A. SAB World 3
B. ?? can’t talk about future projects
C. ?? can’t talk about future projects

Obviously they would have to be relatively open about what they were going to be doing, although they could certainly disguise the plot relevant details of the new content, for example they wouldn’t need to tell us where the new dungeons would be or why they would be there unless they wanted to. I mean, if they described the “Not So Secret” JP as “a vertical, trap and launch pad filled jumping puzzle,” and maybe describe a few of the gimmicks, it wouldn’t really spoil much.

As I noted in the post before that though, I think it’s vital that they be more open about the general future direction of the game.

You are right though that a close race might not be that great. What if they did a 1-2-3 poll? In that you pick your first, second and third choices, first counting for three points and third for only 1? This should result in a greater spread, as the ones that more people wanted most would get more 2s and 3s, and the one people wanted least would get mostly 1-2, so should fall further behind. The choice people don’t care much about would end up much more in the middle.

Anyone remember the aftermath of Kiel vs Evon? We literally had people on the forum calling everyone who did not vote for Evon brainless idiots. And it lasted for a while, too. Not to mention that when it was actually implemented, the backlash was revived. And that’s just a single Fractal, not an entire design direction.

Yeah, so what though? Nobody knew who voted for whom, so it’s not like players could in any way retaliate against Evon voters (I was one myself, actually), and it was mostly in fun anyways, mock outrage. I’m sure there would be people disgruntled with the results, but there would also be even people very happy that they got their way (since statistically more people would “win” than would “lose”).

It also wouldn’t completely shift the game, they don’t need to give us that much power, we would basically be given control over just a portion of what would be coming out over a six month period, the equivalent of 1-2 LW updates in the middle of a dozen of them. I don’t think it would be a good idea to leave the entire direction of the game up to polling.

And if the internet has taught us anything, it’s that if there is a poll somewhere, it’s easy to manipulate it to have pretty much any result you desire.

They definitely shouldn’t use a simple web poll. It should either be ingame or on the official site, registered to your account so you only get one vote per account. The only way to cheat it would be to create a bunch of accounts, which mostly wouldn’t be worth it, and if people do try to cheat that way, more power to them because they’re funding the game for us.

None of the options presented should be so horrible that it would kill the game if they made it in, so whatever.

Mike O Brien.4613:

I know some are concerned about whether ArenaNet is communicating with you and listening and responding to your feedback. As you saw with yesterday’s announcement, we do. All of us at ArenaNet play the game with you, chat with you and read your forum posts, and work on the things that we think will most delight and entertain you.

We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development. We don’t want to string you along. Creating fun is an uncertain business: sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t; sometimes we go back to the drawing board over and over before we get something right. If we make optimistic promises and then can’t deliver on them, everyone suffers. So when we attend a trade show or give an interview, we’re there to talk about what we’re getting ready to ship, not to speculate on what we might ship someday.

Don’t read that as meaning that we don’t want to talk with you about the longer-term roadmap. The intention of the CDI threads is to talk with you about the roadmap. We want to talk design philosophy with you and hear how you want to see the game evolve. When those discussions trigger development, we’ll work internally until we have something we’re proud of before we’ll announce it.

A lot of the questions I’ve seen posted this week are as simple as this: does ArenaNet have an agenda to never do something? That’s almost never the case, and if it is the case you deserve to know and we’ll make sure we get more clear. In general the simple truth is this: when we’re not currently working on something, it’s because we’re working on something else instead that we think is more important for the game and community.

Our developers post on these forums on a voluntary basis, and in addition to developers, we have a community team who can clarify and be the bridge between players and developers. They’re ready to engage you on these topics. And I know it’s hard for the community team to engage players across all the forums and sites where these questions are being discussed, so I’m going to support the team in consolidating and focusing as necessary, so that we can be clear to the community where you can go to get a response.

See you in-game,
Mike O’Brien

So basically, you don’t even know what you’re doing or what to do. You have no clear goals, no focus and no direction to go into with a determined state of mind. You just make things up as you go along.

Alright, got it. Thanks.

Ohoni.6057:

If you promise things and you have a good reason for not delivering, just explain what that reason is, any sensible players will understand and move on.

So true. And even more true if they are careful to manage expectations by clearly communicating that upcoming feature announcements are not “promises” and are subject to change.

The thing is, though I’m sure this isn’t intended, their company policy reveals a sense of disdain for their players on behalf of the policy makers, as they obviously don’t think we are “sensible” enough to comprehend clear communication. Which is kind of offensive, when you think about it (so I won’t, lol).

I’ll end by also quoting this part of Ohoni’s post, which is the feedback that is being repeatedly given, and absolutely must be acted upon by the company policy makers if they ever desire to have a healthy relationship with the majority of its players:

We know that you have a policy to not talk about things until they’re ready to launch, but that policy is toxic, and it needs to go.

Well, I saw some ideas about the poll and I think that there could be ways that even an in-game poll could be not intrusive.

For example, you receive an e-mail that tells you to visit the Consortium Office so you can respond to a survey and win 100 gems in the process! Don’t know about you, but I would do a quick survey for 100 gems.

That could happen not frequently (once a month, tops) and would be only once per account per survey cycle.

And the questions, while they would inform future development, would not be a direct “what do you want us to develop?”

First, because that question would be immersion breaking…
But also because the idea for a survey in my opinion is to see what is working for the playerbase and what… not so much.
So it’s better to ask about interests in the current game, even because 90% of the playerbase just plays, without thinking about what they want “next” in the game. They know what they like, and they will answer if asked, but they will not write a book about it (like us…)
And the final reason for a not-as-direct poll: this is not a democracy. ArenaNet can and must consider player feedback in the development decisions, but the final decision should be theirs.

We may think about what we imagine would be fun or better, but if that doesn’t mesh well with their vision for the game or even what they know (and we don’t) about game mechanics and story, they should not implement. And a too direct poll (“what do YOU want next”) would imply a commitment that I don’t think they should make anyway.

It’s better to make questions about the current game than to ask about what people want next. Like the example I made about specific aspects of the new trait system.

DDCarvalho.2071:

Any particular criticism about the system?
[X] 100% map completion for traits? Bad idea.
[X] I think that traits should always be found in maps with level lower than the trait availability (level 36 for adept for example)
[ ] All traits should be attainable by playing only a game mode, the current system forces me to WvW / PvE!
[ ] The events that award traits should be better planned to avoid waiting hours for it!

Ohoni.6057:

We know that you have a policy to not talk about things until they’re ready to launch, but that policy is toxic, and it needs to go.

Your whole post is excellent Ohoni, but it’s this part that needs to be hammered home. Until that policy changes, all this talk is essentially meaningless.

minbariguy.7504:

So true. And even more true if they are careful to manage expectations by clearly communicating that upcoming feature announcements are not “promises” and are subject to change.

The thing is, though I’m sure this isn’t intended, their company policy reveals a sense of disdain for their players on behalf of the policy makers, as they obviously don’t think we are “sensible” enough to comprehend clear communication. Which is kind of offensive, when you think about it (so I won’t, lol).

Gamers in general are an irrational bunch, this fact can easily be observed by taking a look at the official forums of pretty much any game out there.

That is why game developers are very vague when talking about possible additions to their games. No matter how hard you stress the point that ideas aren’t set in stone, you’ll end up with a crowd raving about “broken promises” if something ends up getting changed or scrapped even.

It’s our fault it’s gotten like this, not the developers.

Having said that, I wish game devs everywhere would grow some balls and just ignore the irrational crybabies.

I ask myself this: what is worse?

• the scenario after the delay of precursor crafting
• the scenario when no one knows how the future of GW2 will look like

In the first scenario at least we had a bunch of things to look forward to, to focus on – and most of them implemented (which means: happy customers). In the later scenario we have no idea what to look forward to and are afraid of the things they might not add ever. There might be new features added along the way, but our focus is still on other things.

… and think about how scenario 1 could have been better if Anet could have clarified exactly what it is that makes it last longer – open brutal honest communication.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I ask myself this: what is worse?

• the scenario after the delay of precursor crafting
• the scenario when no one knows how the future of GW2 will look like

After 2 years of game without a precursor, I want that precursor crafting as much as any 1k+ hours player without a precursor, but I really think that people talking about it (or SAB) in this thread are going off-topic, just because a dev is watching the thread.

Ensio.8172:

No matter how hard you stress the point that ideas aren’t set in stone, you’ll end up with a crowd raving about “broken promises” if something ends up getting changed or scrapped even..
Having said that, I wish game devs everywhere would grow some balls and just ignore the irrational crybabies.

Tell me about it… Sometimes it feels like some of these forumgoers think they are in Sword Art Online, and if they try to log off and go to another game, they will die in real life, judging for how much they cry and complain about a game.

DDCarvalho.2071:

After 2 years of game without a precursor, I want that precursor crafting as much as any 1k+ hours player without a precursor, but I really think that people talking about it (or SAB) in this thread are going off-topic, just because a dev is watching the thread.

Well, I talk about it because it seems to me that the community-reaction on the delay of pc-crafting is the reason why we haven’t seen roadmaps for 2014 anymore.

Mr. Whiteside first let me express my admiration, you have the nerves of steel, I wouldn’t endure half of the angry posts!

I have to say that I understand both angry customers and developers… I work in software development so I know how hard it is to deal with the customer and of course sometimes things don’t work out as planned. I understand the policy of silence until the feature is developed. I also understand the angry gamers.

I’ve been ok with this development so far, but only mostly because I am an altoholic (working on my 11th character) and achievement hunter (nearing 14K achievement points). I love the design, the combat is perfect, however I miss many things also, but this is not the place to discuss it.

Living Story is great, in my opinion, I like the episodic playing, but I am also one of the people that would love to see an expansion. I am ok with no expansion if I have always something new to find, explore and experience in terms of content regularly.
I have many things to praise, however I have always felt that the communication and PR is lacking, but who am I to judge (a person without any experience in this field). Still, I think that the roadmap would solve many issues and it would calm many angry players. Why? I guess you know, it has been said here a lot… we don’t know where you are heading. We want this game to be successful, we want to express many and new adventures and we want to look forward to coming things.

You don’t want to disappoint us, I also don’t like dealing with angry customers that demand the product on time despite the unforeseen circumstances and flaws and changes.

We are ok with you saying: “Guys, a problem has come up that made us postpone this long awaited feature, but we are working on it.” Or “Things have changed, we had to stop develop this in order to bring you something that”. This all is ok, just please be more transparent, we understand that you have limited resources and are only human, just let us know. The uncertainity is very strong thing, we are completely uncertain about the future and that can lead to fear, anger, panic, just like we don’t know what happens after death, that’s why many people fear the death. And we may fear the future for this wonderful game. (whoa what a metaphor!)
Feedback is very important for the developer. It is also important to us. To establish a healthy developer-customer dialogue is very difficult, but let’s try that! Don’t let the whiny babies discourage you, ignore the trolls, just keep on with the communication and the community will appreciate it.

It doesn’t have to be detailed preview, but for example a blogpost twice a year telling us about the predicted next direction would be awesome! I loved the state of the game blogposts by Colin Johanson. Of course nobody expects you to tell us there about everything, just leak some interesting info that will make us look forward to the future additions!
Mr. O’Brien, Johanson, Whiteside and others, please think about it. We love the game, we care, we want it to be successful, we want all to enjoy it for a long time. Communication is vital in every relationship, and this between you and us is no exception.

Of course I don’t speak for everyone, mainly for myself and some of my friends, so just our two cents.

Ensio.8172:

It’s our fault it’s gotten like this, not the developers.

Having said that, I wish game devs everywhere would grow some balls and just ignore the irrational crybabies.

It’s both sides. Finger pointing and throwing out insults isn’t going to help this situation.

All we can do is more forward, and work with Colin and Chris in trying to repair the damage. I, for one, was angered and frustrated enough with the last few months of silence to uninstall and toss my GW2 CD into the trash. However, I love the game and I’m willing to see this through to see if their current intent will materialize into positive change. I’m willing to give them another chance, and I think that is all they are asking at this point as well.

Additionally, they are in the process of hiring Customer Relations staff. At least, I believe that is what Chris mentioned earlier in this thread. Generally, Dev’s aren’t trained to deal with on-going community issues. CR people are, and they are the ones who know how to deal with the good and the bad. They have very thick skins. So, hopefully when they come in the communications environment will improve.

who ever read this? seriously

cdi is just a hype to make spammors feel important but at the end this thing is just an Placebo to make ppl silent

when you rly read this than how bout this thema?:
Is Feature Presentation now a Living Story too?

pah

Ohoni.6057:

I think polls wouldn’t have valuable results because of this:

Q: How important is SAB for you?
A: Very important —> tons of people
B: Neutral
C: I can’t stand it

Anet: Ok, you voted for SAB, our map-designers will now stop working on new maps and focus on SAB only. You’ll get world 3 in 3 months, no new maps in the near future.
Us: O______o noooooo

As long as we have no idea how ressources are managed and what needs to be sacrificed in order to make something else happen, polls would make little sense imho.

A fair point, but maybe they could ask better questions? Maybe they could give us options like they did during the Election, in which they presented two different Fractals. They could say “which would you prefer to be released within six months?”
A. SAB World 3
B. An Aetherblade Retreat style dungeon
C. A Not So Secret-like jumping puzzle in the new zone

Probably give longer and more complex descriptions for each, to let people know vaguely what it would consist of.

Package up three options that would involve the same basic dev team, let players choose between them. The ones that fail could be re-added to new polls for the next series.

problem with polls is they are exclusive to other options. For example, what if you like SAB AND ls2? There are also other problems.
I think probably they should just ask people to +1 things they like somehow.

leviathan.2148:

It doesn’t have to be detailed preview, but for example a blogpost twice a year telling us about the predicted next direction would be awesome! I loved the state of the game blogposts by Colin Johanson. Of course nobody expects you to tell us there about everything, just leak some interesting info that will make us look forward to the future additions!

I dunno if that’d honestly work, given how changeable they’ve explained to us the course of development is. I’d go in the exact opposite direction, more informal and frequent. Let us be a fly on the wall in those daily or weekly dev meetings, at least in some senses.

Either way.. the situation right now, where one guy is volunteering his weekends and family time to keep reassuring us while remaining muzzled on ‘the issues’ by company policy.. s’gotta change. I appreciate what Chris is doing, but hopefully the higher-ups hear that and start helping him out.

Yes, I know, Chris has already said they’re dedicated to that. Bring it on!

Well I just want to say a few things about communicating the devs of mmo’s are some of the one who are in a long term investment these game’s are not like single player games where you build the game and once it launches that is close to the final product.

So in essence the mmo devs have to look at the player bash who are there with them spending money, population servers etc.. as investor’s to the mmo to a certain extent I think what the devs could do better on a lot of mmo’s etc.. is to communicate the direction you are going with the game not necessarily in detail but with enough info to know where you want to go with your games.

So things like class changes (traits, weapons, utility skills etc..), world event changes (world bosses, chained events etc..), and Competitive Play (WvW and PvP). Can have more minds think in the same direction and coming up with better ideas for the future of a said mmo franchise I don’t think stories ect.. should be revealed but just a common directional idea of where you want to go with things maybe with stuff in the near future more so then things that are not in the plate of work yet but hat is only how I feel

The best use of polls would be to have people prioritize a list of potential features.

Might even weight them, with an estimated ‘cost’ in terms of difficulty, design time, development resources needed, QA time to validate, etc.

So it’s not just “Do you luv SAB?” it’s “Would you rather see SAB, this WvW fix, a change to this fractal, chairs that work”… that kind of thing.

Im not sure what 19 pages are about here…All Mr Obrien was stating was their reasoning for being hush hush about certain things. Don’t think we need to discuss it.

The only thing Id like to discuss that abstractly relates to this, is the discussion and/or development effort of things that we do not ask for VS things that we ask for over and over and over again. Id like a little more transparency on that.

No one asked for Ascended gear. We got it.
No one asked for Living Story. We got it.

We did ask for precursor crafting/scav hunts, and still don’t have it.
We still ask for expansions.

Things like that. I know Im over-generalizing here in terms of the scope of my opinion. However, in and out of game these are the things I see most popping up on fansite forums, official forums, in game chat…

Chris Whiteside.6102:

ananda.5946:

Chris, since you are actively posting in this about communication, can you tell us if the Mac client is being looked at? It crashes all the time in large events and there is no active support in the mac support forum.

If you don’t mind i will get back to you on this on Tuesday.

Chris

Hi Chris!

First of all thanks for all thanks for all the work you are doing on your personal time on this thread.

Now that Tuesday’s update information has been released, and the “Performance Updates” section is presumably what you were waiting for, did you have additional information on what this means for the mac client in particular that you can provide? Are you able to confirm that the crashes the mac beta client users were seeing were performance related, and if so that the performance updates mentioned today have been tested on the mac client and in fact reduce, if not eliminate, the problems?

And in order to stay on topic, would it be possible for this information to be communicated in the mac tech support forum where it best belongs instead of buried deep inside this thread? We would love any updates you are allowed to give, or even acknowledgement that ArenaNet is aware of and working on the issues with the mac client.

Good morning, Chris.

How was the meeting with the design leads?

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

I am getting back up to date on the last page.

Chris

Mr. Whiteside, can you have someone address the potential griefing that will happen w/ the loss of instance ownership in dungeons/fractals? I sincerely hope that your solution will alleviate our reasonable concerns about being kicked for selling/guildee replacement. I don’t want to carry people through Arah and be kicked at the last second because someone wants a guildee to come in for the credit.

And good morning as well!!

Chris Whiteside.6102:

cesmode.4257:

Im not sure what 19 pages are about here…All Mr Obrien was stating was their reasoning for being hush hush about certain things. Don’t think we need to discuss it.

The only thing Id like to discuss that abstractly relates to this, is the discussion and/or development effort of things that we do not ask for VS things that we ask for over and over and over again. Id like a little more transparency on that.

No one asked for Ascended gear. We got it.
No one asked for Living Story. We got it.

We did ask for precursor crafting/scav hunts, and still don’t have it.
We still ask for expansions.

Things like that. I know Im over-generalizing here in terms of the scope of my opinion. However, in and out of game these are the things I see most popping up on fansite forums, official forums, in game chat…

Crumbs there are a lot of assumptions here specifically in terms of who wants what to be in GW2 and not.

Chris

There’s always someone asking for something. Name a thing, and I’m sure you can find people that want it in the game.

As for the things we didn’t ask for? Well, yes, we did. Or rather, we asked for things and that’s how ANet answered. Was it quite what we hoped for? ::laughs:: Not for all of us, no, but again you’ll find different opinions on that.

That’s part of the reason why it’s best to talk out ideas and give them a better idea of not what we want, but WHY we want it and what we want from it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

cesmode.4257:

Im not sure what 19 pages are about here…All Mr Obrien was stating was their reasoning for being hush hush about certain things. Don’t think we need to discuss it.

The only thing Id like to discuss that abstractly relates to this, is the discussion and/or development effort of things that we do not ask for VS things that we ask for over and over and over again. Id like a little more transparency on that.

No one asked for Ascended gear. We got it.
No one asked for Living Story. We got it.

We did ask for precursor crafting/scav hunts, and still don’t have it.
We still ask for expansions.

Things like that. I know Im over-generalizing here in terms of the scope of my opinion. However, in and out of game these are the things I see most popping up on fansite forums, official forums, in game chat…

Crumbs there are a lot of assumptions here specifically in terms of who wants what to be in GW2 and not.

Chris

Very true. And in my post I did recognize that. But I traverse sites such as mmorpg.com and when I see people bashing GW2, it is because of things like Living Story release, Ascended gear, no precursor help, etc. All things that have been popping up on the official forums every single week for the last two years. I mean, this is all hearsay from me, I know…and its very thin to take my word for it. I have to assume you guys read the same posts on fansites and on the official forums. Yet, you still go in the development direction that you do. It is that decision-making process that baffles me, and its why I struggle to stay interested in anything that GW2 is doing. Because I see the cries and wants of disgruntled former players, all crying for the same stuff a lot of the time…but the direction is living story. I guess its not in my scope to “get it”…but I dont get it.

I mean, just take the example of an expansion. Threads and posts on these very forums pop up every day about expansions. But the direction is in 2 week breadcrumb releases.

As someone who will pay full box price for a traditional expansion, I thoroughly enjoy reading the notes on the feature packs because thats the closest thing I’ll see to expansion-like content.

But speaking of expansion here, is just one example and I don’t mean to harp on it.

I suppose, in summation, I am asking for more transparency in the disconnect that I see between the common hot topics that I listed above, and they ARE hot topics on any gaming forum related to GW2). Its that gap between the wants of a percentage of the playerbase and the decision you make. I know its your game and you are free to do what you want. Of course. But I don’t think anyone was asking for 2 week releases of small story content in the early days of GW2, or when Ascended gear game out, or when Guild missions were released…I dont think anyone cried for 2 week releases any time during the launch life cycle. Yet, it is the cornerstone of updates. The absolute heart of the updates(or most of them, less feature packs).

Why?

(I hope Im explaining my self clearly)

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I have asked that we give an update on the mac client.

Chris

Please! I need to get my friend with a Mac into this game before he nails my feet to the floor on Final Fantasy 14.

Mr. Whiteside, sorry to bring it up again, but can you clarify the changes in instance ownership? I believe that there’s a genuine concern for griefing, and I was hoping that you could put our legitimate worries at ease.

Thanks again for replying!

I have a new take on “Communicating With You:” less is more, if you’re consistent. What I’d like to see is ANet picking any one of the ideas mentioned above (by ANet or players): stickies, blogs, CDIs, whatever, but just one. Then, commit to that method, regardless of what happens.

Communication shouldn’t stop because you guys get busy doing a release in China or the tinfoil hats come out in force. Instead, task someone with making sure we hear from you through good times and bad.

If the avenue of communication chosen becomes ineffective, modify or update it, or drop it and replace it with something else — but keep communicating.

The fact is, no matter how much you talk to us and how clear you are, it will never be enough. The best you can do is to make sure people know you are listening.

tl;dr Communicate with us consistently (and meaningfully), rather than worry about starting up a lot of new things as a reaction to recent events.

PS it wouldn’t hurt to make a point of telling us when you fix things: a lot of recent updates fixed some annoying, little issues, but there’s no mention of them in the patch notes. (INB4: I’m not going to list them, since I want ANet to toot their own horn.)

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

PS it wouldn’t hurt to make a point of telling us when you fix things: a lot of recent updates fixed some annoying, little issues, but there’s no mention of them in the patch notes. (INB4: I’m not going to list them, since I want ANet to toot their own horn.)

It’s like seeing “Removed Herobrine” over and over again, despite him not being in the game in the first place.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Mr. Whiteside, sorry to bring it up again, but can you clarify the changes in instance ownership? I believe that there’s a genuine concern for griefing, and I was hoping that you could put our legitimate worries at ease.

Thanks again for replying!

We have been discussing this for a very long time. Can you PM me so i remember to get back to this point when it is appropriate to do so please?

Chris

How about now? People are worried NOW. People are starting to call doom and gloom NOW. Now is the appropriate time to get someone to deal with this. Not later. Later is now with a bigger mess.

It doesn’t have to be you. Kitten, it shouldn’t be you. There should be someone you can hand this off to and say “Here, explain.” Despite all the posts you’ve made recently, ANet as a whole still doesn’t seem to be communicating. The few of you that ARE talking are just going to get buried by trying to take on the whole load yourselves.

I’ll say that I understand the commitments to development and meetings, etc…that the team doesn’t have the time to post anymore. But I do miss Colin’s frequent posting and his smiling face!!

Chris Whiteside.6102:

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Mr. Whiteside, sorry to bring it up again, but can you clarify the changes in instance ownership? I believe that there’s a genuine concern for griefing, and I was hoping that you could put our legitimate worries at ease.

Thanks again for replying!

We have been discussing this for a very long time. Can you PM me so i remember to get back to this point when it is appropriate to do so please?

Chris

Will do sir, as soon as you empty your inbox :-)

Chris Whiteside.6102:

cesmode.4257:

I’ll say that I understand the commitments to development and meetings, etc…that the team doesn’t have the time to post anymore. But I do miss Colin’s frequent posting and his smiling face!!

We just need to build more time to post more, have better channels for communication and folks connecting us to discussions. We will do our best.

Chris

We know posting on the forums takes a lot of time and I don’t think anyone really expects you to post on a daily basis.

All we really want is an idea of what to expect for the future and getting updates when that vision changes. I personally thought the 2013 preview was a general success.

Criticism will happen regardless of what you do. When you scrap something you had announced or hinted at, all we want is a justification and some warning instead of learning about it indirectly through an interview. When that justification is that SAB doesn’t fit well in the theme of the game… well, yes that infuriates some people because it was a success (the second time around didn’t go as well because it was at the same time as the return to school for people as well as being in competition with the Teq changes and WvW tournament PLUS people were working on getting their ascended weapons… that’s a lot to compete with).

We expect things because we don’t know what’s coming. This was the case for the Super Adventure Box. It was there last year in April and September, so people expected the same… we can’t be expected to think otherwise unless you give us updates on what to expect short-medium and long term. (*EDIT : I sure used “expect” a lot there)

I can already tell you today : If we don’t get a fractal update in November, people will be livid for the exact same reason. It is 100% expected as we have had no communication otherwise.

The blow up for lack of dungeons being worked on is both because people assumed a Mordrem dungeon was being worked on (there were tons of thread speculating one) and disappointment overall as it is the favorite aspect of the game of a lot of players.