Guild Wars 2

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi,

We read many forums all the time, we just need to do a better job of communicating that and working to discuss topics.

In retrospect the CDI break has probably been to long as well (That’s my fault).

Chris

The following quote was from 7 months ago…

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Process-Evolution-Phase-2-Update/first#post3562962

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I am definitely going to expose the impact between previous CDI and evolution in the live game when I get time (More observant community CDI members will already see evolution).

Like you point out Nike, there have been some pretty obvious ones already, but I agree it would be exciting to call out changes in relation to previous CDI proposal/summaries.

Origins of Madness contains a number of evolutions that were heavily impacted by previous CDIs.

Chris

Chris,

I fully understand the massive workload and all and that is fine.

I just didn’t want this to fall by the wayside as I do feel it would be important to the communication process.

coglin.1867:

Sogradde.8016:

Mike, what boggles our minds is, how you say you want to work with the community but you don’t do it. I didn’t read every CDI in its full entirety but did any of the features you “liked” ever see the light of day?
When you ask us for suggestions, we expect you to try and work on these.

People like this are the problem. The fact that you are so self centered that you feel you speak for the whole community says a lot about your misconceptions.

As well, they get tons of extremely varying suggestions at times. Which ones are they supposed to implement, and which ones should they not. What gives one persons suggestion more value?

Prove me wrong.

Also, you’re clearly missing the point. It’s not about favoring a suggestion, it’s about not stagnating and chosing to do nothing instead.
If you really want to argue they didn’t fix the scoring system because they couldn’t decide for about 2 years which fix was the best, you are as naive as ignorant.

The only CDI I actively participated in was the Ranger one. I still have the infraction notices to prove it ..

If you need an example on how not to run a CDI, go dig this one out. It was a cluster kitten from the very first ‘Red’ post, and was very toxic at more than one point.

Furthermore, ANET ‘blamed’ the ranger community for derailing the CDI, when their own staff assigned to managed the CDI kept contradicting herself, and clearly had no clue about he issues under discussion. Oh, and she would disappear for days and weeks on end with no one from ANET stepping in.

I lurked in a few other CDI’s, the one on the story/writing was a joke.

So, CDI’s are the last thing I want to see repeated. The fact that so little from the ones considered ’successful’’ have made it into the game speaks volumes, and was always going to be the case.

sazberryftw.3809:

Can someone tell me what CDI stands for?

Collaborative development initiative

Thanks this post Mike.
You may could come up with a forum system modification where it shows that a Dev member did check a topic and marked as “Noted, Following…” – without cheating it.

Or any other notes/marks to topics

To be honest, the past CDIs left me with a sour taste in my mouth. As you were trying to communicate, there was really no going back and forth, but rather bringing up topics that you seem to be interested in discussing. All while ditching issues and problems that some wanted to be addressed, putting them in the “derailing the topic at hand” bucket.

Regardless I really hope you guys are a little bit more transparent this time around. Don’t get me wrong. I can see you’re trying Chris. While being completely unable to share any details on anything with us, you actually manage to say something about nothing. Which is a good trait to have. Especially since the communication is so scarce that anything will do at this point.

Community in general seem to be pleased with past CDIs and excited for future ones. Which somewhat gives me hope for the future of dev-player communication.

But please be open to criticism. Because in the past Living Story updates, when we had a great update, devs were all over the forum, taking praise and feedback alike. All while communicating with players. But it seem the second an update was not well received, Anet been put on a lock-down in the forums. Hundreds upon hundreds of feedback, complains, ideas, propositions unanswered and not resolved.

You have to realize we love this game. Some of us more than you do for our own personal reasons. So we’re not here to be against you, but rather help you make this wonderful game even better. So if we see something done right, you’ll hear the praise, but don’t turn your back when we see something we don’t like.

It’s always the same. Those who like where the game is going and are enjoying themselves, find plenty of communication.

Those who don’t like the game, and aren’t enjoying themselves are grasping at straws for some clue as to when the thing they really need most to come out.

Precusor hunting is one of those things. In spite not having it in game, many people have legendaries and many people are enjoying themselves even without legendaries.

Now, when it comes into the game, how has the game really changed in substance. You’ll get your precusor, your legendary…and then what? What do you do after?

My son worked really hard to get his legendary, got it and left the game. He was done. He won. He got his legendary.

I’m not sure precusor crafting will make as much difference as other things Anet might work on.

Because I feel this, I don’t feel that Anet is doing a bad job at communicating. I pretty much have some idea of where they are and what they’re going for. Living world, as in a living, breathing world, not just the living world content.

People who don’t like the content on offer think a new dungeon is going to make them happy, but it won’t for any length of time.

The game is what it is. Trying to change it into something it’s not, instead of accepting you might not like it is the cause for half the discontent on these forums.

But I’m really glad you posted Mike. It was past time you guys weighed in, if for nothing else than I was tired of people telling me how badly you communicate.

Veltoss.9135:

What about communicating with yourselves? From what I’ve read, especially on glassdoor.com, it seems that communication between the upper management and the lower level employees, and understanding between upper management and the players, is severely lacking. I’d personally rather see something done to improve ArenaNet as a whole than increased communication with the players. Communication with the players is worthless if the company can’t run efficiently and produce good content, and players have noticed for a while now how badly prioritized and managed content creation has been.

The problem with Glassdoor is if an employee is having issues, they blast their employer. I never believe Glassdoor because the reviews are not filtered, not checked, and the employer is not asked.

This is important but needs few words.

1. ComTag update reversion is great.
2. To help your update team release updates people like, get feedback BEFORE implementation or you’ll waste their programming time.
3. If Anet disagrees with community on feedback, communicate on thread. Communication not necessary if feedback is being implemented, we can see when changes are made. It’s when nothing changes and nobody speaks that people feel a disconnect.
4. Time on fansites improves reach. Time on forums improves retention. Your current approach is getting people who then quit. You will know from your sales team that more income comes from gem conversion than initial game sales. Assign at least one full time moderator to your own official forums.

That is all.

Mighty Favazz.1546:

Before we get too mushy here, folks, lets be clear about what Mike just said. He basically just reiterated what thier policy on communicating with their customer base. If that’s all you need, then good for you. But what I really want is a broad understanding of their current and long term goals. Lack of communication only leaves for speculation. Speculation mostly leads to built up hopes, which cannot be achieved.

Everyone loses with their current policy. The only reason they have it is to have something to fall back on and avoid blame if they can’t meet their goals, which to me, is a cowardly way to run a company.

It certainly isn’t innovative.

I’ve read every single post in this thread and this one best sums up my point of view.

Another discussion line going on in this thread is the lack of the CDI process, and restarting CDI, which in my opinion is not a good idea. We players tend to focus most on the QoL items that we would like to see. Anet seems to regularly pick “other” priorities, and then fails to discuss them with us. Mike O’Brien’s post leads me to believe that this will not change in the future.

That will restart the player participation – hope – annoyance – anger – despair process, and we don’t need that again.

The underlying problems with CDI involve Anet cherry picking the priorities they will work on, the lack of discussion with players on those priorities, and the development speed over all. The process is simply so slow that it appears to be non-existent.

Proof of this can be seen in the profession bug lists that have barely been addressed. The trait thread only got addressed today/yesterday. In PvP Skyhammer still exists, and development on player requests concerning WvW QoL changes was really poorly handled and barely scratched the surface on what was discussed.

I’m not going to start making lists yet again, so I’ll just end this here.

I hear what you’re saying here and I 100% agree.

That being said, over in the traits thread there are 38 pages of VERY similar complaints along with at least 10 if not more very sound and reasonable suggestions from the community. More importantly there are people that just want some kind of answer. Not a solution mind you. An answer. Even if the answer is: We hear you, but we cannot work on this at this time. Or, we hear you, but this is the direction we are simply taking the game in and apologize if thats not what you are looking for in the game. Or (hopefully) we hear you and we hope to have someone looking into some options but cannot give any deadlines/ETA on when we can seriously look into this. Anything. Please. Stop letting that post get to 38+ pages without a single word from someone. I think that is the kind of frustration many people feel that lead them to think that you all aren’t listening. This has been a thing since the LAST major feature update and its gone past the point of disconcerting.

Sogradde.8016:

coglin.1867:

Sogradde.8016:

Mike, what boggles our minds is, how you say you want to work with the community but you don’t do it. I didn’t read every CDI in its full entirety but did any of the features you “liked” ever see the light of day?
When you ask us for suggestions, we expect you to try and work on these.

People like this are the problem. The fact that you are so self centered that you feel you speak for the whole community says a lot about your misconceptions.

As well, they get tons of extremely varying suggestions at times. Which ones are they supposed to implement, and which ones should they not. What gives one persons suggestion more value?

Prove me wrong.

Also, you’re clearly missing the point. It’s not about favoring a suggestion, it’s about not stagnating and chosing to do nothing instead.
If you really want to argue they didn’t fix the scoring system because they couldn’t decide for about 2 years which fix was the best, you are as naive as ignorant.

I have to agree with them Coglin you can’t fanboy this one away. The fact of the matter is this. Their Feature Pack 2 is addressing 0 of the concerns players have almost unanimously in the forums. It shouldn’t take that long to reach a decision about things the people you’re making the game for are having trouble with. Many of these requests are very simple from a programmers pov, I know I’ve checked. For example, Hobosacks.

tigirius.9014:

Sogradde.8016:

coglin.1867:

Sogradde.8016:

Mike, what boggles our minds is, how you say you want to work with the community but you don’t do it. I didn’t read every CDI in its full entirety but did any of the features you “liked” ever see the light of day?
When you ask us for suggestions, we expect you to try and work on these.

People like this are the problem. The fact that you are so self centered that you feel you speak for the whole community says a lot about your misconceptions.

As well, they get tons of extremely varying suggestions at times. Which ones are they supposed to implement, and which ones should they not. What gives one persons suggestion more value?

Prove me wrong.

Also, you’re clearly missing the point. It’s not about favoring a suggestion, it’s about not stagnating and chosing to do nothing instead.
If you really want to argue they didn’t fix the scoring system because they couldn’t decide for about 2 years which fix was the best, you are as naive as ignorant.

I have to agree with them Coglin you can’t fanboy this one away. The fact of the matter is this. Their Feature Pack 2 is addressing 0 of the concerns players have almost unanimously in the forums. It shouldn’t take that long to reach a decision about things the people you’re making the game for are having trouble with. Many of these requests are very simple from a programmers pov, I know I’ve checked. For example, Hobosacks.

0 of the concerns? We’re only 1/3 of the way through their blogs. And their first third is stuff that not everyone WILL care about because it’s pvp and wvw based. Come on.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I hear what you’re saying here and I 100% agree.

That being said, over in the traits thread there are 38 pages of VERY similar complaints along with at least 10 if not more very sound and reasonable suggestions from the community. More importantly there are people that just want some kind of answer. Not a solution mind you. An answer. Even if the answer is: We hear you, but we cannot work on this at this time. Or, we hear you, but this is the direction we are simply taking the game in and apologize if thats not what you are looking for in the game. Or (hopefully) we hear you and we hope to have someone looking into some options but cannot give any deadlines/ETA on when we can seriously look into this. Anything. Please. Stop letting that post get to 38+ pages without a single word from someone. I think that is the kind of frustration many people feel that lead them to think that you all aren’t listening. This has been a thing since the LAST major feature update and its gone past the point of disconcerting.

You might be hearing but are you really listening? Go have a look at the last page or two of the Trait thread. You’ll find a red tag. It isn’t much but it’s something.

Edit: I see you found it.

tigirius.9014:

Sogradde.8016:

coglin.1867:

Sogradde.8016:

Mike, what boggles our minds is, how you say you want to work with the community but you don’t do it. I didn’t read every CDI in its full entirety but did any of the features you “liked” ever see the light of day?
When you ask us for suggestions, we expect you to try and work on these.

People like this are the problem. The fact that you are so self centered that you feel you speak for the whole community says a lot about your misconceptions.

As well, they get tons of extremely varying suggestions at times. Which ones are they supposed to implement, and which ones should they not. What gives one persons suggestion more value?

Prove me wrong.

Also, you’re clearly missing the point. It’s not about favoring a suggestion, it’s about not stagnating and chosing to do nothing instead.
If you really want to argue they didn’t fix the scoring system because they couldn’t decide for about 2 years which fix was the best, you are as naive as ignorant.

I have to agree with them Coglin you can’t fanboy this one away. The fact of the matter is this. Their Feature Pack 2 is addressing 0 of the concerns players have almost unanimously in the forums. It shouldn’t take that long to reach a decision about things the people you’re making the game for are having trouble with. Many of these requests are very simple from a programmers pov, I know I’ve checked. For example, Hobosacks.

I’m pretty sure the new combat log is addressing the concerns of at least some fans. Or don’t you count that?

Vayne.8563:

tigirius.9014:

Sogradde.8016:

coglin.1867:

Sogradde.8016:

Mike, what boggles our minds is, how you say you want to work with the community but you don’t do it. I didn’t read every CDI in its full entirety but did any of the features you “liked” ever see the light of day?
When you ask us for suggestions, we expect you to try and work on these.

People like this are the problem. The fact that you are so self centered that you feel you speak for the whole community says a lot about your misconceptions.

As well, they get tons of extremely varying suggestions at times. Which ones are they supposed to implement, and which ones should they not. What gives one persons suggestion more value?

Prove me wrong.

Also, you’re clearly missing the point. It’s not about favoring a suggestion, it’s about not stagnating and chosing to do nothing instead.
If you really want to argue they didn’t fix the scoring system because they couldn’t decide for about 2 years which fix was the best, you are as naive as ignorant.

I have to agree with them Coglin you can’t fanboy this one away. The fact of the matter is this. Their Feature Pack 2 is addressing 0 of the concerns players have almost unanimously in the forums. It shouldn’t take that long to reach a decision about things the people you’re making the game for are having trouble with. Many of these requests are very simple from a programmers pov, I know I’ve checked. For example, Hobosacks.

I’m pretty sure the new combat log is addressing the concerns of at least some fans. Or don’t you count that?

The whiners don’t count anything that is not something they are interested in. That is why I and others on this forum have stated that players only look at what they are interested in, not the whole picture of the game (looking at a tree and ignoring the forest).

Dusty Moon.4382:

The whiners don’t count anything that is not something they are interested in. That is why I and others on this forum have stated that players only look at what they are interested in, not the whole picture of the game (looking at a tree and ignoring the forest).

exactly, WvWers still whine about getting NO updates since release while they got a whole map (EotM) which took months to develop… still they state that EotM is not a WvW map. Instead of bringing constructive criticism how EotM could be turned into something they feel is more in the spirit of WvW or bringing ideas how to include some features from EotM into classic WvW maps they favour whining about NOTHING NEW.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The whiners don’t count anything that is not something they are interested in. That is why I and others on this forum have stated that players only look at what they are interested in, not the whole picture of the game (looking at a tree and ignoring the forest).

exactly, WvWers still whine about getting NO updates since release while they got a whole map (EotM)… still they state that EotM is not a WvW map. Instead of bringing constructive criticism how EotM could be turned into something they feel is more in the spirit of WvW or bringing ideas how to include some features from EotM into classic WvW maps they favour whining about NOTHING NEW.

It’s actually even worse than this. Dedicated WvW players beta tested that map and were generally excited and happy about it and gave feedback and feedback was listened to.

They didn’t see what would happen when it went live. Neither did Anet. It’s very easy to look at a company and say they should have seen. Well in that case they had a test server so many ask for, and after release it still has intended consequences.

I’m not surprised WvW players aren’t universally in love with EotM. But they had plenty of chance to affect how it turned out before it launched.

I thought of another specific thing that really shows a lack of two-way discourse: Skill splits/Skill Templates.

Skill splits seem to be off the table for WvW/sPvP/PvE. Reasons have been given.

We were told months ago that Skill Templates were coming. If Skill Splits don’t happen, then Templates make total sense as we players need different builds for different formats.

What’s up with Templates? How is progression going on those? With seemingly only 2 Feature Patches per year, does that mean we will have to wait another 6 months for Templates when we were told 6 months ago they were happening?

I think that type of thing is where the issues arise. Saying that things are happening isn’t the problem. Forgetting to tell us that they got cancelled is the issue. If you stop working on something because it isn’t meeting your standard is OK. Will some of us be ticked it isn’t happening? Sure. But being honest with us is way more important to open communication than just stopping development on something and not telling us.

I also feel we get talked to like we won’t understand. I for one want to hear the truth of the matter whether I understand it or not.

So we going to get a real Ranger CDI thread this time?

Iason Evan.3806:

I thought of another specific thing that really shows a lack of two-way discourse: Skill splits/Skill Templates.

Skill splits seem to be off the table for WvW/sPvP/PvE. Reasons have been given.

We were told months ago that Skill Templates were coming. If Skill Splits don’t happen, then Templates make total sense as we players need different builds for different formats.

What’s up with Templates? How is progression going on those? With seemingly only 2 Feature Patches per year, does that mean we will have to wait another 6 months for Templates when we were told 6 months ago they were happening?

I think that type of thing is where the issues arise. Saying that things are happening isn’t the problem. Forgetting to tell us that they got cancelled is the issue. If you stop working on something because it isn’t meeting your standard is OK. Will some of us be ticked it isn’t happening? Sure. But being honest with us is way more important to open communication than just stopping development on something and not telling us.

I also feel we get talked to like we won’t understand. I for one want to hear the truth of the matter whether I understand it or not.

They don’t have to tell us ANYTHING. The fact that they are trying to communicate in such a toxic environment as this forum is great.

They don’t have to say to us, ‘Sorry this doesn’t fit into the design of the game’. Once the DCI restarts then maybe but more than likely not. The reason being players focus on one or two issues, A.Net has to focus on them all and make them fit.

zenleto.6179:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I hear what you’re saying here and I 100% agree.

That being said, over in the traits thread there are 38 pages of VERY similar complaints along with at least 10 if not more very sound and reasonable suggestions from the community. More importantly there are people that just want some kind of answer. Not a solution mind you. An answer. Even if the answer is: We hear you, but we cannot work on this at this time. Or, we hear you, but this is the direction we are simply taking the game in and apologize if thats not what you are looking for in the game. Or (hopefully) we hear you and we hope to have someone looking into some options but cannot give any deadlines/ETA on when we can seriously look into this. Anything. Please. Stop letting that post get to 38+ pages without a single word from someone. I think that is the kind of frustration many people feel that lead them to think that you all aren’t listening. This has been a thing since the LAST major feature update and its gone past the point of disconcerting.

You might be hearing but are you really listening? Go have a look at the last page or two of the Trait thread. You’ll find a red tag. It isn’t much but it’s something.

Edit: I see you found it.

hehe, yep, I went over there right after and saw it and was all .

I’m really glad to have seen that over there finally.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

zenleto.6179:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I hear what you’re saying here and I 100% agree.

That being said, over in the traits thread there are 38 pages of VERY similar complaints along with at least 10 if not more very sound and reasonable suggestions from the community. More importantly there are people that just want some kind of answer. Not a solution mind you. An answer. Even if the answer is: We hear you, but we cannot work on this at this time. Or, we hear you, but this is the direction we are simply taking the game in and apologize if thats not what you are looking for in the game. Or (hopefully) we hear you and we hope to have someone looking into some options but cannot give any deadlines/ETA on when we can seriously look into this. Anything. Please. Stop letting that post get to 38+ pages without a single word from someone. I think that is the kind of frustration many people feel that lead them to think that you all aren’t listening. This has been a thing since the LAST major feature update and its gone past the point of disconcerting.

You might be hearing but are you really listening? Go have a look at the last page or two of the Trait thread. You’ll find a red tag. It isn’t much but it’s something.

Edit: I see you found it.

hehe, yep, I went over there right after and saw it and was all .

I’m really glad to have seen that over there finally.

Not wrong. I don’t have too many beefs with the new trait system ( which is why I haven’t posted there) but that many pages without any response…well…

Dusty Moon.4382:

Iason Evan.3806:

I thought of another specific thing that really shows a lack of two-way discourse: Skill splits/Skill Templates.

Skill splits seem to be off the table for WvW/sPvP/PvE. Reasons have been given.

We were told months ago that Skill Templates were coming. If Skill Splits don’t happen, then Templates make total sense as we players need different builds for different formats.

What’s up with Templates? How is progression going on those? With seemingly only 2 Feature Patches per year, does that mean we will have to wait another 6 months for Templates when we were told 6 months ago they were happening?

I think that type of thing is where the issues arise. Saying that things are happening isn’t the problem. Forgetting to tell us that they got cancelled is the issue. If you stop working on something because it isn’t meeting your standard is OK. Will some of us be ticked it isn’t happening? Sure. But being honest with us is way more important to open communication than just stopping development on something and not telling us.

I also feel we get talked to like we won’t understand. I for one want to hear the truth of the matter whether I understand it or not.

They don’t have to tell us ANYTHING. The fact that they are trying to communicate in such a toxic environment as this forum is great.

They don’t have to say to us, ‘Sorry this doesn’t fit into the design of the game’. Once the DCI restarts then maybe but more than likely not. The reason being players focus on one or two issues, A.Net has to focus on them all and make them fit.

The post is about better communication. That starts with honesty and dropping the PR speak.

The method employed by ArenaNet:
Imply everything, confirm nothing

How does it work?
You say something such as this “All of us at ArenaNet […] work on the things that we think will most delight and entertain you.”
See? Nothig said, but you can take any of your wishes, ranging from new PvP to new classes and an expansion, and apply it to this statement. You may feel excited about the future now.

This is a typical video games industry method, but one which is a bit too old for today. It comes from the background of late 90ies where PR always assumed they were talking to children (or to the inner children of adults).

If anything, players seemed to be fed of being talked to like children, which is understandable, since ArenaNet’s direct competition abandoned this stance a while ago. Just yesterday, I saw a Diablo 3 developer jump into the middle of the biggest community controversy live on Twitch and come out on top. How? he treated his audience like adults. He provided a reason for why he designed a reward scheme in a specific way. He acknowledged the suggestions of the community and explained why he wasn’t gunning for that solution again and instead chose something different. He also talked about long term goals and admitted that he had no idea how to do this and that it might go horribly wrong.

In one word, he was a real human being, in contrast to ArenaNet which tries going for the infallible god image. God required some iterations maybe, but now he is god nonetheless.

There is hope yet, Point of Interest is important for ArenaNet to reach that same level of talking to adults instead of trying to talk to children. They might not be the media trained mean machines other developers on Twitch are, but they need ArenaNet’s support to go out there and talk more candidly.

How you talk to people can be more important than what you say. Sure, we all want to know more, more, more, more. But adult ways of communications need to come first.

Iason Evan.3806:

We were told months ago that Skill Templates were coming. If Skill Splits don’t happen, then Templates make total sense as we players need different builds for different formats.

What’s up with Templates? How is progression going on those? With seemingly only 2 Feature Patches per year, does that mean we will have to wait another 6 months for Templates when we were told 6 months ago they were happening?

Funny how people can’t read ….

Original post form a dev :

Evan Lesh.3295:

We absolutely want to make build templates. They could work similar to GW1, but there are more components to a build now. Using the old string-code method may prove to be unwieldy.

Things that must be in a template:

• Weapons
• Sigils
• Rune
• Amulet
• Skills
• Traits

What could be in a template:

• Skins
• Dyes
• Outfit
• Finisher

Things to consider:

• Sharing (chat links? codes? urls?)
• Viewing (seeing some else’s vs. seeing your own)
• Saving (notepad vs. local vs. account vs. web)
• Building (one spot in UI vs. multiple spots)
• Websites (third-party sites should work with in-game)
• APIs (Could expose an API to third-parties)
• PvP vs PvE vs WvW (each mode requires different configuration options)

How would you like to see any/all of these work?

So 2 months ago (40 work days during summer !!! ) someone write " we want to add templates but help us to decide what should be in" and you read “we have done build templates, they are coming”….

I think this is the response we needed from ArenaNet (and the only one they could give without making “promises” or speculations about the future) – specifically the comments that nothing is really off the table regarding future content and that the CDIs are coming back.

While there are topics I am focused on and really want to see sooner rather than later (new guild missions and dungeons), I am still happy with the current game and will continue to have fun while anxiously awaiting news.

Ranael.6423:

Iason Evan.3806:

We were told months ago that Skill Templates were coming. If Skill Splits don’t happen, then Templates make total sense as we players need different builds for different formats.

What’s up with Templates? How is progression going on those? With seemingly only 2 Feature Patches per year, does that mean we will have to wait another 6 months for Templates when we were told 6 months ago they were happening?

Funny how people can’t read ….

Original post form a dev :

Evan Lesh.3295:

We absolutely want to make build templates. They could work similar to GW1, but there are more components to a build now. Using the old string-code method may prove to be unwieldy.

Things that must be in a template:

• Weapons
• Sigils
• Rune
• Amulet
• Skills
• Traits

What could be in a template:

• Skins
• Dyes
• Outfit
• Finisher

Things to consider:

• Sharing (chat links? codes? urls?)
• Viewing (seeing some else’s vs. seeing your own)
• Saving (notepad vs. local vs. account vs. web)
• Building (one spot in UI vs. multiple spots)
• Websites (third-party sites should work with in-game)
• APIs (Could expose an API to third-parties)
• PvP vs PvE vs WvW (each mode requires different configuration options)

How would you like to see any/all of these work?

So 2 months ago (40 work days during summer !!! ) someone write " we want to add templates but help us to decide what should be in" and you read “we have done build templates, they are coming”….

You are totally right. My bad. I feel like it had been said somewhere that they were indeed implementing templates. My apologies.

Iason Evan.3806:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Iason Evan.3806:

I thought of another specific thing that really shows a lack of two-way discourse: Skill splits/Skill Templates.

Skill splits seem to be off the table for WvW/sPvP/PvE. Reasons have been given.

We were told months ago that Skill Templates were coming. If Skill Splits don’t happen, then Templates make total sense as we players need different builds for different formats.

What’s up with Templates? How is progression going on those? With seemingly only 2 Feature Patches per year, does that mean we will have to wait another 6 months for Templates when we were told 6 months ago they were happening?

I think that type of thing is where the issues arise. Saying that things are happening isn’t the problem. Forgetting to tell us that they got cancelled is the issue. If you stop working on something because it isn’t meeting your standard is OK. Will some of us be ticked it isn’t happening? Sure. But being honest with us is way more important to open communication than just stopping development on something and not telling us.

I also feel we get talked to like we won’t understand. I for one want to hear the truth of the matter whether I understand it or not.

They don’t have to tell us ANYTHING. The fact that they are trying to communicate in such a toxic environment as this forum is great.

They don’t have to say to us, ‘Sorry this doesn’t fit into the design of the game’. Once the DCI restarts then maybe but more than likely not. The reason being players focus on one or two issues, A.Net has to focus on them all and make them fit.

The post is about better communication. That starts with honesty and dropping the PR speak.

Not speaking PR – I was a forum mod on another forum. This is objectivity talking not the ‘A.Net is always wrong’ attitude. Why don’t you drop the incensed attitude and try to listen just for once. You might actually learn something.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Iason Evan.3806:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Iason Evan.3806:

I thought of another specific thing that really shows a lack of two-way discourse: Skill splits/Skill Templates.

Skill splits seem to be off the table for WvW/sPvP/PvE. Reasons have been given.

We were told months ago that Skill Templates were coming. If Skill Splits don’t happen, then Templates make total sense as we players need different builds for different formats.

What’s up with Templates? How is progression going on those? With seemingly only 2 Feature Patches per year, does that mean we will have to wait another 6 months for Templates when we were told 6 months ago they were happening?

I think that type of thing is where the issues arise. Saying that things are happening isn’t the problem. Forgetting to tell us that they got cancelled is the issue. If you stop working on something because it isn’t meeting your standard is OK. Will some of us be ticked it isn’t happening? Sure. But being honest with us is way more important to open communication than just stopping development on something and not telling us.

I also feel we get talked to like we won’t understand. I for one want to hear the truth of the matter whether I understand it or not.

They don’t have to tell us ANYTHING. The fact that they are trying to communicate in such a toxic environment as this forum is great.

They don’t have to say to us, ‘Sorry this doesn’t fit into the design of the game’. Once the DCI restarts then maybe but more than likely not. The reason being players focus on one or two issues, A.Net has to focus on them all and make them fit.

The post is about better communication. That starts with honesty and dropping the PR speak.

Not speaking PR – I was a forum mod on another forum. This is objectivity talking not the ‘A.Net is always wrong’ attitude. Why don’t you drop the incensed attitude and try to listen just for once. You might actually learn something.

Go back through my post history. I have a lot of posts on these forums and most of them are very constructive even in my criticism. Do I get ticked from time to time? Sure. Am I rude about it? I mostly keep it on topic and constructive. Nothing that I have said in this thread has been rude in any way. All I have offered is my constructive opinion on how I think things should be handled. Heck, in my last post, I just apologized for being wrong.

Iason Evan.3806:

You are totally right. My bad. I feel like it had been said somewhere that they were indeed implementing templates. My apologies.

You may be right and have read it… and that is always a problem, people read between lines and take that for granted before spreading the news through the community.

It’s like for SAB, somebody said "it won’t make sense to have SAB returning during a LW seasons so we don’t know what will happen to it NOW " and suddently all the community is like " NO SAB EVER !!! " " Reimburse my infinite token" "Let’s occupy Rata Sum naow! "

For sure there is some communication issue from Anet but there is also an issue within the community between players themselves…

Chris Whiteside.6102:

For those asking about topics:

That is the first thing we will discuss. Specifically logistics around CDI being hard to follow due to the size of the threads and how to choose topics.

We left of last with the general consensus being that Arena chooses but we should revisit that to see what current opinion.

Thanks for the welcome back to the CDI all. We are looking forward to it to.

Chris

The CDI’s will be a welcomed sight if only they don’t end like the Ranger CDI….

I really hope that this attitude is genuine. This thread is long overdue and I am so happy to see it. Since I’ve started posting on these forums I’ve gone from friendly and ANet-positive to constantly trashing the company and the game’s direction, completely as a result of poor communication.

I lurk (well, these days, troll…) the dungeon subforum, and after a few polite attempts at getting a discussion going on several important topics that were met with either silence or infractions for daring to address ANet directly, I got bitter. I’d love to return to feeling like the company cares, is listening, and is interested in discussing issues with their playerbase.

The long periods of silence (go look at how long it has been since a relevant red-post was made in the dungeon forum. Seriously. I’ll wait… … …) and seeing the same threads pop up over and over again from different players pointing out serious issues with the game gives a very strong impression that ANet isn’t listening and/or doesn’t care.

Seeing serious bugs in the game (not subjective design disputes, but actual bugs and problems with the game systems) being completely ignored for years while tons of new gem store items constantly appear and reappear in the updates….that doesn’t leave a very positive impression of the company or its values.

Thoughts on Improving ANet<—>Player Communication

No reasonable person on these forums expects a dev to respond to every post. I think most of us would be happy with a system where:

1) A “forum communicator” assigned to the one or more subforums monitors and accumulates player questions, bug reports, and issues.
2) The communicator works with the developers, designers, and management to answer questions and discuss the issues.
3) The communicator returns to the forum in a timely fashion to let us know that we’ve been heard.

Step 3 doesn’t have to include a concrete, guaranteed plan to solve a problem, but it should be more along the lines of:

- “We’ve heard and understand the issue. Here are some of the solutions we think may address it. What do you guys think?” or
- “That system is working as intended, here’s why it’s designed this way: …” or
- “That definitely is not right, but right now we can’t prioritize fixing it. Please continue discussing possible solutions, though, and we’ll keep listening!”

Right now, regulars on the forum have to see the same questions popping up over and over again, and we can’t answer them. We don’t have old posts to point to (and when we do, they’re 2 year old posts from former employees saying “we’re looking into it”), and the discussions always devolve into speculation and reinforce our disgust at ANet’s refusal to get involved.

This post has given me a bit of hope in the possibility of a GW2 where players and ANet can move forward as a team. I sincerely hope to see more of this sort of involvement in the future.

Mr. O’Brien. Considering this is my first MMO that I have ever played avidly, I just like to say thanks for at least keeping us in touch, though some people say that it hasn’t been as much as before but I appreciate it all the same. I’d appreciate it if you guys do this more often than your standards to make sure that a lot, if not all players don’t feel too left out or as other forums posters say, leave much for speculation and guessing. As mentioned by dlonie, a good start is to have a particular community manager assigned to a subforum to oversee the feedback the players have generated.

From the looks of it all, I will admit that what you have done is not perfect. There is criticism everywhere and I don’t need to tell you that criticism is healthy in an MMO as it gives you plenty to work with and makes the game experience all the more dynamic that way.

Thanks again.

What is the massive development challenge in the way of turning on SAB that everyone keeps talking about? Every official comment I see is “oh we need to be working on more important things”. There’s already a good content base in existence for the zone, it just can not be that difficult to set it up to be able to be turned on.

And to be even more blunt on the subject, why is Anet flushing cash down the toilet by not selling infinite continues and borking over everyone who bought them by leaving the zone disabled seemingly indefinitely?

I’d like to say that they want to prioritize the Living Story content first. Considering the issues we have had in Dragon’s Reach episode 1, perhaps they want to iron out the other content pieces to minimize issues like that in the future. Also, I’d guess they’d improve upon the other episodes based on feedback from the other eps. I don’t think it’s an issue of if they want to bring back SAB or not, it’s more to do with the right time to bring it back.

Vayne.8563:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The whiners don’t count anything that is not something they are interested in. That is why I and others on this forum have stated that players only look at what they are interested in, not the whole picture of the game (looking at a tree and ignoring the forest).

exactly, WvWers still whine about getting NO updates since release while they got a whole map (EotM)… still they state that EotM is not a WvW map. Instead of bringing constructive criticism how EotM could be turned into something they feel is more in the spirit of WvW or bringing ideas how to include some features from EotM into classic WvW maps they favour whining about NOTHING NEW.

It’s actually even worse than this. Dedicated WvW players beta tested that map and were generally excited and happy about it and gave feedback and feedback was listened to.

They didn’t see what would happen when it went live. Neither did Anet. It’s very easy to look at a company and say they should have seen. Well in that case they had a test server so many ask for, and after release it still has intended consequences.

I’m not surprised WvW players aren’t universally in love with EotM. But they had plenty of chance to affect how it turned out before it launched.

If Anet honestly relies on beta testers for WvW, than that shows me the WvW team has no confidence in themselves
I’m not even going to talk about EoTM – That map had no affect whatsoever on the actual WvW… it was installed purely as a solution to the queue problem a lot of players had in the high tier servers..but I will say this – How long as EoTM been out? And What exactly has Anet done about the EoTM since it’s release? right, they have pretty much thrown it aside and said “screw it, we don’t care about it anymore”

I’m criticizing the fact that whatever WvW team exists has consistently failed to produce any interesting or refreshing content, and give us a few minor and relatively inconsequential updates after months of silence and waiting. And they decided to hype up these dull updates as big, “game-changing” additions.
No offense but months of waiting all leading up to a ONE new trap and ONE new mastery and new a couple colors for a tag lol? is this real?
There’s a laundry list of things dedicated WvW players have asked for, but anet does not want to put in actual resources and serious development time for WvW, which is why this game is going no where in regards to WvW/sPvP.
The roadmap for PvP posted nearly a year ago has literally gone completely off the road lol.

Utter lack of commitment to these aspects of the game. Yea they listen to the community alright, its just they choose to neglect anything that requires a lot of dedicated work, which means we are left with subpar/mediocre updates to sPvP/WvW systems…

The feedback on the trait system has been up for what, 4 months?
Red just now posted they are looking at it lol…great..so 4 months and you still can’t tell us about any progress? Just.. “we have read your concerns lol?” Welp, guess we might see some changes to it next april lol

If you think this is good communication, by all means keep being satisfied… just know a lot of players don’t share that opinion

I think A-Net is doing what they can and will not change for a few people who are looking for personal gains keep doing your things guys/gals GW2 > any other MMO out now.

Personally I do not mind you guys at Anet not communicating with us at all, you have your stuff to do. But I would like to see serious improvements made to the competitive game modes in return, not just a trick that disable stuff and 3 tag colors.

If your not not going to release anything for the competitive game modes for 10 months, then we deserve at least to know whats going on, because of all the money we’ve invested in the gem store, if not for us simply still playing your game. It’s in your best interest anyway, because when you do not release content and at the same time break the communication we have the impression that this game is on it’s last breath.

So please, just deliver stuff worthy of the GW1 expansions.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Iason Evan.3806:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Iason Evan.3806:

I thought of another specific thing that really shows a lack of two-way discourse: Skill splits/Skill Templates.

Skill splits seem to be off the table for WvW/sPvP/PvE. Reasons have been given.

We were told months ago that Skill Templates were coming. If Skill Splits don’t happen, then Templates make total sense as we players need different builds for different formats.

What’s up with Templates? How is progression going on those? With seemingly only 2 Feature Patches per year, does that mean we will have to wait another 6 months for Templates when we were told 6 months ago they were happening?

I think that type of thing is where the issues arise. Saying that things are happening isn’t the problem. Forgetting to tell us that they got cancelled is the issue. If you stop working on something because it isn’t meeting your standard is OK. Will some of us be ticked it isn’t happening? Sure. But being honest with us is way more important to open communication than just stopping development on something and not telling us.

I also feel we get talked to like we won’t understand. I for one want to hear the truth of the matter whether I understand it or not.

They don’t have to tell us ANYTHING. The fact that they are trying to communicate in such a toxic environment as this forum is great.

They don’t have to say to us, ‘Sorry this doesn’t fit into the design of the game’. Once the DCI restarts then maybe but more than likely not. The reason being players focus on one or two issues, A.Net has to focus on them all and make them fit.

The post is about better communication. That starts with honesty and dropping the PR speak.

Not speaking PR – I was a forum mod on another forum. This is objectivity talking not the ‘A.Net is always wrong’ attitude. Why don’t you drop the incensed attitude and try to listen just for once. You might actually learn something.

I’d suggest listening to your own advice. The only contributions you have made to this thread are to attempt to derail it with bickering stabs at other people’s commentary. As per your post history, this seems to be a common trend. It is non-constructive, and creates an adversarial environment. The thread itself is polite and civil, though pointed. Let’s try to keep on track and be positive.

As to Chris’ comments about the CDI, what I would like to see is a roadmap of developments from the previous CDI communications. As in, what you as Dev’s are choosing to work on from those lengthy discussion with the community. I think that would be a great starting point. Once we know what you found valuable from our feedback, and what is feasible to implement, then let’s move forward onto the next level of discussions.

Mike & Chris, your posts are very much appreciated. Though there have been some responses that have been quite hostile, there are others of us that welcome this interaction, and we aren’t vying for the lynch rope.

Communication is definitely an area that needs improvement (CDI topic?). We are passionate about GW2 (which I know you are too), and we want to be able to collaborate with you in order to help make GW2 the best it can be. While the ultimate decision on the development belongs to you, we would welcome the opportunity to have an open discussion with you, and maybe give you some ideas that spark action.

This post is extremely welcomed and appreciated. Don’t go quiet again! We missed you guys/gals.

seriously people some of u you happy whit that info from mike ? he doesn’t say anything its basically the same thing we are getting it over and over it me as mmo player need to know how much to invest in the game and for that i need to know the future of the game and the road is taking but this , here is not good for me and not good for many of my friends whit respect give us what u working on expansions new content stuffs SOMETHING pls whit respect

Gele.2048:

seriously people some of u you happy whit that info from mike ? he doesn’t say anything its basically the same thing we are getting it over and over it me as mmo player need to know how much to invest in the game and for that i need to know the future of the game and the road is taking but this , here is not good for me and not good for many of my friends whit respect give us what u working on expansions new content stuffs SOMETHING pls whit respect

Some of us who have jobs in a similar industry understand that communication is a tricky thing with clients. This little bit is pretty nice, especially since we now know when CDIs are starting.

How do I handle my desires for GW2 as they relate to ANet communications? Unless ANet says, “X is coming in two weeks,” I assume I will never see it.

Particle blur: “Our engineers are working on other issues right now.” translates to, “We will never implement a slider.”

Expansions: “Nothing is off the table.” translates to, “There will be no expansion.”

I could go on, but hopefully, this illustrates the point. ANet has their own vision for the game. It departs from my own wishes. It’s unlikely to change. Rather than hold on to hope, I have chosen to give up, and to take the cynical view. Why? Because that way, any surprises I get with regard to additions to the game are pleasant ones. And, because it’s better for my blood pressure.

So, my advice is to do what I do, and chill out. It’s only a game.

The CDI talk is great, but let’s get real: it’s a waste of time. It’s us telling you what we like and you maybe listening. Nothing amazing has ever come from a CDI. We don’t need another round of “What would you like to see?” that is followed by nothing actually happening.

The reality is, frankly, that all we can depend on is that ArenaNet will put new things in the gem store. New armors, new outfits, new pets, new items. We can depend on you to always try to gouge out some more money while throwing out a 1 hour content patch every once in a while. Even the 2 year anniversary is a sale. Ooh!

When GW2 was discussed, cosmetics were the point. It wasn’t levels. It wasn’t story. It wasn’t even you making money. It was cosmetics. Yet other than some incredibly ugly back items and Ascended items, we’ve not seen any meaningful item addition in 2 years. ArenaNet, you’ve failed on the main point of your game to provide a grind alternative where the look of the character was more important than anything else. But boy have you made money by releasing exclusive content through the gem store! And no, I don’t want to hear about being able to buy gems with gold because your stated intent was no grind instead of more grind.

It’s time you stopped looking at your users as wallets that can be parted every 2 weeks. It’s time we became people who, for the record, pay your wage. Does that mean you have to do everything we want? Absolutely not. You can’t please us all.

It means you should really consider living up to your own stated expectations, though. Those were your promises to us, and all you’ve done is fail on your promises time and time again. Others may fawn at your attention, but I do not. You’ve disappointed someone who was a fan since the betas of GW1 Prophecies. It’s time to start trying to actually treat me like more than some money.

Consider that some much-needed tough love. ArenaNet was once a great developer known as one that could challenge the giants. Now? You’re derided among even some of the biggest fans. You gotta snap out of it before you go belly up!

For the CDI, let’s discuss rewards, item prestige, and precursors.

It’s not secret that a lot of players are unhappy with the current “loot system” but I believe that Anet has benign intentions and have thoughtfully considered the various means of acquisition of different items (rng, gem store, gem store + rng, seasonal, temporary/limited time, time gated, etc.) and whether an item is tradable or account bound on acquisition. There will always be players who are dissatisfied, because there will always be a tension between players who want everything without working for it, and players who are willing to dedicate time and effort into the game and wish to distinguish themselves with exclusive and prestigious items. An open discussion would allow developers to gauge whether a particular reward is serving the purpose it was designed to, and also importantly, allow the community to hear the intentions/reasoning behind some of the rewards. ….At the end of the day, at least, hopefully there will be less ignorant people who accuse, “Anet makes precursor prices so high because they want to force us to buy gems to convert to gold because obviously no player has ever been able to attain a precursor otherwise.”

I dont understand why anyone would be upset about the current loot system sound like some people are thinking about easy personal gains rather then the longevity of the game. Diablo 3 was destroyed by these types of people please A-Net don’t change the loot system with scaled events and dungeon runs it is possible to get MANY champ bags and plenty of exotics. 85 luck atm and banners+food+buffs I am getting plenty of exotic weapons and armors I can only imagine how much MORE I will have when i max MF to 300. Legend and ascended weapons are not impossible to get. Dedicate time.

I have followed the last CDI, and the one before that, and I have critiqued the Anet/community communication gaffes since the forums opened at launch.
Just as game design and implementation is an art, so is communication in a public setting.
Hire a full time communication expert to be the voice of the company. A trained professional will allow you to pose ponder and discuss any thoughts on any subject without the fear of backing yourself into a corner that you “seem” to be afraid of.
Having a single person be the mouthpiece would allow you to put forth an idea without it being extrapolated in 20 different ways when it comes from 20 different sources. A single mouthpiece would bring continuity to your ideals, thoughts, wants and dreams.
I cannot stress enough that I have seen a few posts by people who are not members of the community that were just plain embarrassing, even for me the reader.
PLEASE!, hire a communications specialist to make your work easier.

welcome back Chris, we missed you! can’t wait for the CDI…

Zoso.8279:

I dont understand why anyone would be upset about the current loot system sound like some people are thinking about easy personal gains rather then the longevity of the game. Diablo 3 was destroyed by these types of people please A-Net don’t change the loot system with scaled events and dungeon runs it is possible to get MANY champ bags and plenty of exotics. 85 luck atm and banners+food+buffs I am getting plenty of exotic weapons and armors I can only imagine how much MORE I will have when i max MF to 300. Legend and ascended weapons are not impossible to get. Dedicate time.

I think there’s something to be said for the fact that t6 mats have nearly doubled in cost over the last 6 months though.

I’m in no rush to have everything I want, I’m already nearly there and well, when you have everything you want it gets boring. But double the price in 6 months in a game where inflation isn’t supposed to be a big issue. That’s a problem isn’kitten If it’s not massive inflation then it’s supply/demand. Either we have a BUNCH of people wanting it that we didn’t use to. Or the supply has dwindled. In either case I think it’s pretty reasonable to question what’s going on with loot.