Guild Wars 2

Since ANET can’t prevent people from selling FoTM last boss via LFG because of numerous valid reasons, this is a request to the community to take action for healthy Pugging.

There are multiple instances where several folks kick a person out of the group and promptly sell it for 15-20g. It is stupid to buy into FoTM as the reward is not a guarantee but, the real problem is that there is no way to prevent a team from kicking someone and selling for profit.

When anyone sees an advertisement to sell last boss of FoTM, please join this group and keep abandoning them till they give up and try to recruit a proper team member to complete the instance or 4 man it themselves.

Is there a specific guild that’s doing this? Because you need 3 people to vote for kicking these days, so I can only assume its a group of 3 or 4 friends, likely guildies, that are doing it.

Definitely messed up, unless they 4-manned it legitimately.

Yea and how are we suposed to know that they dident 4 manned it properly and sells it for profit.
You cant punish everyone for what some/majority do, it dont work like that.

this is a request to the community to take action for healthy Pugging.

Basically what u want is a witch hunt because apparently something like that happened to you OR you assume you got kicked in order to sell your spot (how can you know that?). Sorry for that, but this is surely not what in the majority of cases happens.

PvE content is easy, so many set challenges for themselves. If a bit of extra gold may come out of it, so why not? What i mean is that i know many people that duo or lowman fractal 50 for the fun and at the end decide to sell spots (if no one wants to leech the spots) At least fotm selling is not yet as dead as arah selling.

There are multiple instances where several folks kick a person out of the group and promptly sell it for 15-20g.

Again, where do u get your knowledge from? Can u prove it? Else it is just a weak claim of yours. Let me clarify that i do not think such things do not happen, but it isn’t the majority of cases.

It is stupid to buy into FoTM as the reward is not a guarantee […]

That is true, but in the end it is the “problem” of the ones that buy, and they know what they do i think, when they spend 20g on something u can do with a proper group in 20+min.

When anyone sees an advertisement to sell last boss of FoTM, please join this group and keep abandoning them till they give up and try to recruit a proper team member to complete the instance or 4 man it themselves.

Yeah good idea – Hint: it is not! As Linken mentioned, how would you be able to know that this group kicked someone? You just can’t be sure and therefor your suggestion is total BS. Also you seem to be quite anti-selling instances, but anet clearified that this is not prohibited through the lfg tool, it is just not supported by them if one or the other side gets griefed.

I don’t support the idea of dungeon selling, but I also don’t support the griefing that this OP is advocating.

I just don’t understand why someone would actually pay 15-20g for that.

Just ban boss selling via abuse of LFG system. Problem solved.

Julie Yann.5379:

I just don’t understand why someone would actually pay 15-20g for that.

Anyone who have alot of gold and dont have enough time for fractals, will pay if he want skins or chance for fractal tonic.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool/first

Players may use the tool to sell a spot in a group, but they may not use it to sell or trade items or for any other unintended purposes.

I’m sure there are some cases of kicking other players to sell the spots, but I have the feeling they are not the majority of sold paths/fractals. But dungeon/Fractals sellers are not breaking any rules by selling. You, OP, are breaking rules by encouraging people to grief other players. Good going there.

Skady.5916:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool/first

Players may use the tool to sell a spot in a group, but they may not use it to sell or trade items or for any other unintended purposes.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080

“Just posting to inform you all that selling dungeon runs its NOT against the rules. People are free to do so. Please, exercise extreme caution to avoid getting scammed.”

RoseofGilead.8907:

Skady.5916:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool/first

Players may use the tool to sell a spot in a group, but they may not use it to sell or trade items or for any other unintended purposes.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080

“Just posting to inform you all that selling dungeon runs its NOT against the rules. People are free to do so. Please, exercise extreme caution to avoid getting scammed.”

Despite both posts saying the same thing, I would seriously avoid using a 2 year old post when there’s a more recent, relevant, stickied post made by Gaile outlining the official stance/policy.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Skady.5916:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool/first

Players may use the tool to sell a spot in a group, but they may not use it to sell or trade items or for any other unintended purposes.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080

“Just posting to inform you all that selling dungeon runs its NOT against the rules. People are free to do so. Please, exercise extreme caution to avoid getting scammed.”

Yep, I linked official confirmation from Gaile that path selling is totally legal and on top of that we can use LFG to do so. OP should be banned for griefing and LFG tool abuse

P.S. I’ve been running FOTM 3man and selling slots for over a few months now. We never kicked anyone neither grieved anyone. I would like to know names of those who do, thanks!

Basandra Skye.4031:

Despite both posts saying the same thing, I would seriously avoid using a 2 year old post when there’s a more recent, relevant, stickied post made by Gaile outlining the official stance/policy.

Fair enough.

RoseofGilead.8907:

I’m sure there are some cases of kicking other players to sell the spots, but I have the feeling they are not the majority of sold paths/fractals. But dungeon/Fractals sellers are not breaking any rules by selling. You, OP, are breaking rules by encouraging people to grief other players. Good going there.

They’re only breaking the rules if you’re kicked for a nonvalid reason, such as making room for them to sell the spot. But that’s resolved by using the report tool, not coming to the community and asking them to grief people.

OP probably got kicked from a fractal for a legitimate reason and want’s to complain about it IMO. Happens in whine threads over fractals and dungeons quite a bit.

BrooksP.4318:

Just ban boss selling via abuse of LFG system. Problem solved.

Yeah, it shouldn’t be allowed, simple as that.

Basandra Skye.4031:

OP probably got kicked from a fractal for a legitimate reason and want’s to complain about it IMO.

I highly doubt it.

All games forums are full of people trying to justify the selling of instances (whether that be raids, or fractals, or whatever), however wrong, as all games forums are full of people who sell them.

velmeister.4187:

Since ANET can’t prevent people from selling FoTM last boss via LFG because of numerous valid reasons, this is a request to the community to take action for healthy Pugging.

There are multiple instances where several folks kick a person out of the group and promptly sell it for 15-20g.

I doubt this happens that often. Report anyone you see doing this by creating a support ticket, along with any documentation you have (if any). Include times, locations, character names.

velmeister.4187:

When anyone sees an advertisement to sell last boss of FoTM, please join this group and keep abandoning them till they give up and try to recruit a proper team member to complete the instance or 4 man it themselves.

No, that’s a terrible idea.

• It doesn’t prevent anyone from trying again later.
• It doesn’t get the violators reported.
• It could get you suspended, since it is a violation of the LFG tool, just as bad as the one you hope to prevent.

tl;dr report griefing; don’t advocate it, and don’t do it yourself.

Tigaseye.2047:

BrooksP.4318:

Just ban boss selling via abuse of LFG system. Problem solved.

Yeah, it shouldn’t be allowed, simple as that.

Basandra Skye.4031:

OP probably got kicked from a fractal for a legitimate reason and want’s to complain about it IMO.

I highly doubt it.

All games forums are full of people trying to justify the selling of instances (whether that be raids, or fractals, or whatever), however wrong, as all games forums are full of people who sell them.

It’s not justifying or wrong when Anet’s OFFICIAL STANCE AND POLICY is that you ARE allowed to “sell” dungeons and fractals, and that buyer’s beware of scams.

Basandra Skye.4031:

Tigaseye.2047:

BrooksP.4318:

Just ban boss selling via abuse of LFG system. Problem solved.

Yeah, it shouldn’t be allowed, simple as that.

Basandra Skye.4031:

OP probably got kicked from a fractal for a legitimate reason and want’s to complain about it IMO.

I highly doubt it.

All games forums are full of people trying to justify the selling of instances (whether that be raids, or fractals, or whatever), however wrong, as all games forums are full of people who sell them.

It’s not justifying or wrong when Anet’s OFFICIAL STANCE AND POLICY is that you ARE allowed to “sell” dungeons and fractals, and that buyer’s beware of scams.

With all due respect to Anet, I don’t care what their official policy is, because I personally think it’s wrong and destructive to the community.

Especially when people are recruited and then cynically kicked, near the end, to make room for “paying customers”, as the OP has described.

Also, it obviously opens the door to scamming.

In general, I don’t just follow companies (or anyone else) blindly, I have my own moral code and make my own observations based on it.

selling dungeons is disgusting of a practice anyways, yes we should stop these people

The OP appears to be assuming that most people who sell fractals are kicking people to make room for sell spots, which i don’t believe to be the case at all. Sure, it happens sometimes, and people who do that are deplorable players who are ruining the game for people, but i feel that’s a small minority compared to the larger number of legitimate sellers out there.

I regularly sell Lv50/40 fractals that me and a couple of guildies do 3-man. We can easily make 40-60g per 50 fractal for doing something we enjoy, since 3-manning fractals is a lot of fun, and i really don’t see the issue with making some gold after spending 30-45mins doing the content.

The thing you’re forgetting here is that often the type of person who buys dungeon paths or fractals are doing so because they’re cash rich, but time (sometimes skill) poor, thus they’re perfectly happy buying them, and see it as a valid and worthwhile service to get things they normally can’t obtain themselves. Now you may say that people who don’t put the time in don’t deserve nice things, but that’s another point entirely.

When a group has legitimately cleared a dungeon/fractal as a 3/4 man group, there’s really no relevant argument as to why they’re doing anything wrong by selling the spot.

ANet said you can’t kick people that don’t want to be kicked just so you can sell a spot. Not gonna bother linking it.

The OP is advocating that people grief those who sell spots legitimately as well as those who grief others to sell the spots. His solution is morally reprehensible. There is already a procedure to report players who grief others.

Kicking and the LFG are both convenience tools. As developers put more and more convenience tools into an MMO, one result is more and more anonymity. Greater anonymity means less deterrent to bad behavior. Back when it was only possible to group with people on your server, there was no kick function and groups formed via chat messages, there were more consequences to being a kitten. I don’t know about anyone else’s experience, but in mine there were less kittens, too.

So, if you want the convenience of LFG and kicking for whatever legitimate reasons there are, you may have to accept less-than-desirable behavior from time to time.

velmeister.4187:

When anyone sees an advertisement to sell last boss of FoTM, please join this group and keep abandoning them till they give up and try to recruit a proper team member to complete the instance or 4 man it themselves.

So lets just generally kitten up the instances of anyone who is selling even those who put time and effort into 4/3 manning a fractal?

Yes people do this, but a lot of people also legitimately sell. Don’t be kitten and ruin selling altogether.

Are you really this stupid? Selling dungeons is not against the rules.

(Link)

There is no vagueness to this. It’s what was said word for word.

Hi everyone,

Just posting to inform you all that selling dungeon runs its NOT against the rules. People are free to do so.

If you join a group just to grief them though, you are breaking the rules, and abusing the LFG.

There is a saying: two wrongs don’t make a right. So even if selling dungeons was wrong, your solution would be just as wrong. However, dungeon selling is perfectly legal. Your solution is for a problem that doesn’t exist.

You may stop them from selling their spot today, but you may find yourself banned for grieving tomorrow.

I’m going to take this opportunity to hijack this thread for another community effort:

Reports velmeister.4187 to exploits@arena.net. Post simply that he is organizing an effort to grief dungeons and fractals on the live forums and link this thread.

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Community-Effort-Prevent-selling-of-FoTM/first#post5268836

In case the thread gets deleted or he edits it, just link this archive I have made of it:

• https://archive.is/walat#selection-535.0-537.5

Yeah, encouraging people to grief on the LFG is definitely against the rules, and so is doing it.

velmeister.4187:

Since ANET can’t prevent people from selling FoTM last boss via LFG because of numerous valid reasons, this is a request to the community to take action for healthy Pugging.

There are multiple instances where several folks kick a person out of the group and promptly sell it for 15-20g. It is stupid to buy into FoTM as the reward is not a guarantee but, the real problem is that there is no way to prevent a team from kicking someone and selling for profit.

When anyone sees an advertisement to sell last boss of FoTM, please join this group and keep abandoning them till they give up and try to recruit a proper team member to complete the instance or 4 man it themselves.

For F… sake, thats why you do importand stuff with friends, and random stuff with… other people, this is by far one of the most friendly community on the MMO industry and yet have from time to time so many whinning…

Where’s chris leary? Are you by any chance related to Heitred?

velmeister.4187:

Since ANET can’t prevent people from selling FoTM last boss via LFG because of numerous valid reasons, this is a request to the community to take action for healthy Pugging.

There are multiple instances where several folks kick a person out of the group and promptly sell it for 15-20g. It is stupid to buy into FoTM as the reward is not a guarantee but, the real problem is that there is no way to prevent a team from kicking someone and selling for profit.

When anyone sees an advertisement to sell last boss of FoTM, please join this group and keep abandoning them till they give up and try to recruit a proper team member to complete the instance or 4 man it themselves.

Enjoy your ban for griefing people.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

velmeister.4187:

Since ANET can’t prevent people from selling FoTM last boss via LFG because of numerous valid reasons, this is a request to the community to take action for healthy Pugging.

There are multiple instances where several folks kick a person out of the group and promptly sell it for 15-20g. It is stupid to buy into FoTM as the reward is not a guarantee but, the real problem is that there is no way to prevent a team from kicking someone and selling for profit.

When anyone sees an advertisement to sell last boss of FoTM, please join this group and keep abandoning them till they give up and try to recruit a proper team member to complete the instance or 4 man it themselves.

Enjoy your ban for griefing people.

Eh, they’re dungeon people, though. kitten ’em.

velmeister.4187:

Since ANET can’t prevent people from selling FoTM last boss via LFG because of numerous valid reasons, this is a request to the community to take action for healthy Pugging.

There are multiple instances where several folks kick a person out of the group and promptly sell it for 15-20g. It is stupid to buy into FoTM as the reward is not a guarantee but, the real problem is that there is no way to prevent a team from kicking someone and selling for profit.

When anyone sees an advertisement to sell last boss of FoTM, please join this group and keep abandoning them till they give up and try to recruit a proper team member to complete the instance or 4 man it themselves.

Kicks and abuse will happen regardless of your wishes.

I’ve been in groups where we did 4man all the way and sold the 5th slot for a well earned profit.
People are willing to buy because not everyone has the time or patience to FOTM all day long.

When anyone sees an advertisement to sell last boss of FoTM, please join this group and keep abandoning them till they give up and try to recruit a proper team member to complete the instance or 4 man it themselves.

This is encouraging people to harass others. I doubt this will stand with Anet and frankly I’ll report it if I see it.

Nokaru.7831:

I’m going to take this opportunity to hijack this thread for another community effort:

Reports velmeister.4187 to exploits@arena.net. Post simply that he is organizing an effort to grief dungeons and fractals on the live forums and link this thread.

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Community-Effort-Prevent-selling-of-FoTM/first#post5268836

In case the thread gets deleted or he edits it, just link this archive I have made of it:

• https://archive.is/walat#selection-535.0-537.5

+1 to this – it is uncalled for!

Talk about a stupid idea. All you’ll get is people kicking you anyway and either selling to private lists of customers, or just inviting guild members. The market for buying instances exists and so it’s going to happen whether you like it or not.

Moreover, selling instances is totally legit. Anet has explicitly stated this.

Instead, you should talk about solving the roots of the problem: Anet’s lack of interest in dealing with bad behavior as well as kick policy/dungeon ownership.