Guild Wars 2

Support said this was the correct place to put this so here is my complaint. I wish to complain that you guys have added expensive GEM store items into the game for little to no in game currency (SAB boom boxes were 800 gems each and now you are just giving them away for 35 bauble baubles (which is about 5.25gold)): Nothing makes people happier than trivializing their purchases! You could of just put them back into the GEM store even at a discount and people would of purchased them and not complained, but giving them away for pretty much free makes me feel ripped off and kittened off.

I won’t be putting any more money into GEMs from now on since there is no guarantee that GEM store items stay as GEM store items. I just can’t trust ANET anymore.

Notes:
One dungeon path = 30 silver. Time wise 1 zone in SAB world 1 (2 bauble baubles), = a dungeon path; a zone in world 2 trib mode (4 bauble baubles); = 2 dungeon paths. Thus 2 bauble baubles = 30 silver, and 35 baubles = 5.25 gold. This is ignoring the `150ish normal baubles you get per trib path, which I am ignoring since dungeons get dungeon tokens. I haven’t even tried to get bauble baubles and I already have over 150 not counting the ones left over from last time SAB was around. Can’t use wigs and dresses as a measure since they are a non renewable resource.

Different from peoples free to play argument since free accounts (have many limits) is not equal to a paid account (have extra benefits).

Editing to add this: Some people seems to be missing the point so here is the complaint broken down into one line: The complaint is that gem store exclusive items should stay gem store exclusive items.

A couple of points
1) you’re not actually buying these items. You’re buying access to the use of them. ANet retains all ownership rights to any gemstore item.
2) ANet has never said that as the owner of gemstore items, they won’t sell access to the use of items by other ways besides the gemstore or at any price of their choosing.

Also, rather than focusing on your own perceived loss (perceived, because let’s face it you’ve lost nothing), why not take the optimistic route and imagine what gem store items you don’t already own might make their way to an in-game acquisition?

Probably none, though, because of all the internet drama queens raging that other people might get to enjoy the same toy they do, years later at a reduced cost.

(I bought the world 2 boombox back when it was with gems btw, but I’m not feeling ripped off because I’m no longer special)

Why is his complaint being trivialized? This is ridiculous, he has a point. Agree, or disagree, don’t just tell him “oh think of it another way.” The fact is he spent money on something that he could have gotten later for much less money. Kinda how I feel about heart of thorns… but I digress.

I personally don’t agree with him, but I won’t trivialize his argument.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

Why is his complaint being trivialized? This is ridiculous, he has a point. Agree, or disagree, don’t just tell him “oh think of it another way.” The fact is he spent money on something that he could have gotten later for much less money. Kinda how I feel about heart of thorns… but I digress.

I personally don’t agree with him, but I won’t trivialize his argument.

same thing applies to every sale
btw he could use it for a long time until anet made it possible to buy them with baubles so he had his benefit

Maximillian Greil.1965:

Why is his complaint being trivialized? This is ridiculous, he has a point. Agree, or disagree, don’t just tell him “oh think of it another way.” The fact is he spent money on something that he could have gotten later for much less money. Kinda how I feel about heart of thorns… but I digress.

I personally don’t agree with him, but I won’t trivialize his argument.

Well, isn’t that the way of any product, that it can be sold later at a lesser price.

Basically his complaint is that he bought something a couple of years ago and now it’s being sold at a price and a route he doesn’t approve of. There’s never been a time when a past purchaser can control how the owner of a product sells it or the price it’s listed as.

It is trivial, they got something years ago. Someone else got the same thing by a different method. Why is this horrible?

Gremix.2514:

I understand your view on having the worth of items devalued after you purchase something.

Consider this:

Anyone who may have purchased the Infinite Continue Coin, possibly with cash, to work towards Tribulation items only to shortly thereafter

• Have an exploit approved that makes the cheaper option to buy Trib runs with gold while simultaneously trivializing the rewarding nature of having those items.

Luckily for some there’s probably some who still value the Infinite Continue Coin that enjoy Tribulation.

For the rest – RIP.

happened and I wasnt mad for a second, i still have the coin and it makes tribulation so much more enjoyable, heck i can do even run tribulation runs sell them and get the gold for the coin back

You know gems are ingame currency right ?

Lets try this …

35 baubles: 1 super weapon skin. 1 super weapon skin: 7x gold. So 35 baubles: 7x gold.

We should also look at what the gem/gold conversion was when those boom boxes were introduced in the gemstore and how the “value” of gold has evolved since then.

100 gems used to cost about 5.2 gold back then, so a boom box would be around 41.6 gold (equals 24 old ascalonian catacombs runs, just for the shake of pointless data).
The price for dusk precursor, for example, is only 36% higher than during those days, so we could say that those 41.6 gold would worth around 56.6 today, which is less than the 7x gold a super weapon, which equals 35 baubles, costs right now.

There’s no way to properly estimate the value of something involving account bound currencies, after more than two years and on a compeltely different state of the economy.

The truth is, boom boxes probably did not sell well the first time they appeared , so ANet expected a similar result this time and decided they could make a better use of them this new way.
I could understand the outrage if a gemstore item would be reintroduced for a pityful amount of gold a few days or weeks after leaving the gemstore, but after more than 2 years?

It’s not even the first time something like this happens. Just look at the majority of finishers for example: after plenty of time being gemstore items they were moved to Black Lion Chests, made tradeable and now are sold for arguably cheap prices on the trading post.

Value and price are not the same thing.

The value of your Boom Box has not changed.

My first thought is that if your calculations are correct a lot of people, both buyers and sellers, are massively over-valuing the Super weapons. Last time I looked they were selling for about 80g each, and they’re also available for 35 baubles each.

Other than that I agree with the people saying this shouldn’t affect your enjoyment of your items. Of course if you want to deprive yourself of all future gem store items because there’s a chance someone else may get it cheaper later on that’s your prerogative, but it seems extreme and impractical to me.

(By the way, was it really necessary to capitalize every instance of the word ‘gem’? I doubt I’m the only one who reads capitals as shouting, which makes posts like this seem very aggressive.)

Reminds me how I got slightly upset that, when the year after I got my Carlotta mini they changed the way you get her… from buying the set of 3 minis in the gemstore and combining them in the mystic toilet, to a candycorn vendor item. It certainly seemed a lot cheaper.

But I got over it…. so many other things to do with my life, than be upset about some virtual spider I bought going down in price.

So yeah… I do actually get why this is a bit upsetting for you, but you will get over it.

Zeefa.3915:

Reminds me how I got slightly upset that, when the year after I got my Carlotta mini they changed the way you get her… from buying the set of 3 minis in the gemstore and combining them in the mystic toilet, to a candycorn vendor item. It certainly seemed a lot cheaper.

But I got over it…. so many other things to do with my life, than be upset about some virtual spider I bought going down in price.

So yeah… I do actually get why this is a bit upsetting for you, but you will get over it.

I completely forgot about that. Even when I was thinking what I really need is an example so I can say “I’ve been in this situation so it’s not that I don’t understand or care, I just see it differently”. I guess it does make the point though – I got over it to the point where I don’t even remember that it happened, just that I got the item I wanted.

Oddly enough the ones I do remember are when I bought a ‘limited edition’ item (in my case usually a mini) on the TP shortly after it came out and then watched the price drop and drop and drop until I could have gotten 30 of them for what I paid. But then it does go the other way sometimes and I end up very glad I got it early. Overall it balances out.

The OP probably agrees with those who think their purchase of GW2 was trivialized by including the core game with the purchase of HoT and by offering it as play-for-free to the masses. My purchase (of any item or service) is only trivialized if the providing company fails to deliver. I enjoy (or hate) my ISP just as much as the new customers getting the same service at a newcomer’s discount.

Does the OP really want to suggest that ANet is never allowed to offer items through a new mechanic or at a discount? If so, how much of a discount is okay before a “sale” turns into trivializing other people’s purchases?

Finally, how are you equating 35 bubbles to 5.25 gold? I have 5.25 gold — who do I give that to for 35 bubbles so I can get a mini moto? The fact that basic skins can be acquired for X gold doesn’t mean that a bubble is worth X/35 gold. Time invested certainly doesn’t equate to a certain amount of gold (if it did, sentrying in WvW would be a lot more popular) and just because some people can and are willing to run SAB quickly doesn’t mean that most people can.

More ingame rewards through gameplay instead of in the gemstore. I’m all for it. I only use Gems for upgrades and durable convenience items. So absolutely not agreeing with you on this.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

Why is his complaint being trivialized? This is ridiculous, he has a point. Agree, or disagree, don’t just tell him “oh think of it another way.” The fact is he spent money on something that he could have gotten later for much less money. Kinda how I feel about heart of thorns… but I digress.

I personally don’t agree with him, but I won’t trivialize his argument.

The value is in not waiting. Say he didn’t buy the boombox when Back To School was active, then three weeks later he changes his mind. He’s kitten out of luck. For three years, that item wasn’t available. But he in fact did have it and got some enjoyment out of it, probably making some other players envious in the process. That’s completely intangible, but it isn’t valueless.

In that case, the opening poster may as well complain whenever a game they buy becomes cheaper (or free) later on.

I got the Scarlet/Toxic shoulders via gems when they first came out. I didn’t freak out when they came out again for that poorly designed Mordrem Invasion event later.

I bought this game back when it was buy to play. While I have my concerns about it going free-to-play, it being free now is not something I’m mad about.

You’ll get over it.

God forbid people be able to earn games in-game.

Also, the value of 35 bauble baubles is NOT 5.25 gold. I would gladly spend 5.25 gold but I can’t have them because I don’t play SAB. So trivializing it to a 5.25 gold purchase is disingenuous. There’s also a limit on rewards per dungeon path per day.

Have you ever bought an item from a store, and 6 months later the price dropped? Did you go the store and demand a refund for it? Did you refuse to buy from them because they could drop the price after you buy something at any point?

That is how buying anything works.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

A couple of points
1) you’re not actually buying these items. You’re buying access to the use of them. ANet retains all ownership rights to any gemstore item.
2) ANet has never said that as the owner of gemstore items, they won’t sell access to the use of items by other ways besides the gemstore or at any price of their choosing.

None of those points matter when his point is that it’s a bad business practice that makes his purchases feel useless by giving them away later with little effort. They should probably avoid upsetting their customers this way in the future if they wanna keep them buying more gems.
I personally don’t have the same issue since I never bought it with gems and got them both with baubles but I can see why he’d be annoyed. However I did enjoy getting a free mail carrier for having held onto a Inf. Continue Coin for 12 years being unable to use it so that was a nice apology for SAB being gone for over a decade. So they still do nice things once ina while. =)

Doggie.3184:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

A couple of points
1) you’re not actually buying these items. You’re buying access to the use of them. ANet retains all ownership rights to any gemstore item.
2) ANet has never said that as the owner of gemstore items, they won’t sell access to the use of items by other ways besides the gemstore or at any price of their choosing.

None of those points matter when his point is that it’s a bad business practice that makes his purchases feel useless by giving them away later with little effort. They should probably avoid upsetting their customers this way in the future if they wanna keep them buying more gems.
I personally don’t have the same issue since I never bought it with gems and got them both with baubles but I can see why he’d be annoyed. However I did enjoy getting a free mail carrier for having held onto a Inf. Continue Coin for 12 years being unable to use it so that was a nice apology for SAB being gone for over a decade. So they still do nice things once ina while. =)

People who feel like the OP are going to have a rough life when they find items they’ve bought for $10 two years ago at one store being sold at the Dollar Store.

Sorry, escaflowne. I empathize that your annoyed by this situation, but not sure what type of support your going to get here. There is one time I would agree this being a problem. That was with the permanent finishers which were removed from the gem store, then two days latter put into the black lion chests. Beyond that I really don’t argue the point. Even the finishers I bought months before the last sale went live.

Many things like the Gem RNG Dyes Packs (going in the anniversary presents), Mini Ghost Carlotta (gem to free Halloween item), Scarlet/Toxic armor pieces (free with some temporary obscure events), and Aetherized Weapons (going into fractals permanently, after a long hiatus out of the game) have already done this. Furthermore I also bought many of those listed items at for full price (with real money).

Honestly though I am always happy when these once exclusive gem items go back into the game some how. I wish they would do it more. Just to incentivize people to do more content in other places. Even the ones I already have. As long as it does not follow what happened with the permanent finisher sale.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Doggie.3184:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

A couple of points
1) you’re not actually buying these items. You’re buying access to the use of them. ANet retains all ownership rights to any gemstore item.
2) ANet has never said that as the owner of gemstore items, they won’t sell access to the use of items by other ways besides the gemstore or at any price of their choosing.

None of those points matter when his point is that it’s a bad business practice that makes his purchases feel useless by giving them away later with little effort. They should probably avoid upsetting their customers this way in the future if they wanna keep them buying more gems.
I personally don’t have the same issue since I never bought it with gems and got them both with baubles but I can see why he’d be annoyed. However I did enjoy getting a free mail carrier for having held onto a Inf. Continue Coin for 12 years being unable to use it so that was a nice apology for SAB being gone for over a decade. So they still do nice things once ina while. =)

People who feel like the OP are going to have a rough life when they find items they’ve bought for $10 two years ago at one store being sold at the Dollar Store.

As someone who worships our mighty Lord Gaben and his sales magic I understand where you’re coming from, but it’s not really the same thing since it wasn’t a gem store sale.

So you got to use your Boom Box for 2 years, where everyone who didn’t get one back then now has a chance to grind out some SAB runs to get one?

Did you never use it in all that time?

I’m sorry, I just don’t see how this is a problem. You’ve had two years to enjoy it and if ten dollars you spent two years ago (if you didn’t farm up some gold for the gems) has sent your finances into a permanent tizzy then I’m very sorry you have such a precarious position in life.

If they let you buy it and then one week later it was in game, that would be worth a ticket and a gem refund, as when they promoted Rox’s Quiver for sale a week or two before the Wardrobe was implemented and thus people who already had one bought more of them for alts without knowing that almost immediately one skin copy would be all they ever needed. But two years? How is this in any way a concern?

“Why isn’t my iPod mini worth $300? It’s a new definition of sleek in 2006!

Never mind the ten years I’ve had it for. Nobody should be able to get one for anything less than what I initially paid."

Doggie.3184:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Doggie.3184:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

A couple of points
1) you’re not actually buying these items. You’re buying access to the use of them. ANet retains all ownership rights to any gemstore item.
2) ANet has never said that as the owner of gemstore items, they won’t sell access to the use of items by other ways besides the gemstore or at any price of their choosing.

None of those points matter when his point is that it’s a bad business practice that makes his purchases feel useless by giving them away later with little effort. They should probably avoid upsetting their customers this way in the future if they wanna keep them buying more gems.
I personally don’t have the same issue since I never bought it with gems and got them both with baubles but I can see why he’d be annoyed. However I did enjoy getting a free mail carrier for having held onto a Inf. Continue Coin for 12 years being unable to use it so that was a nice apology for SAB being gone for over a decade. So they still do nice things once ina while. =)

People who feel like the OP are going to have a rough life when they find items they’ve bought for $10 two years ago at one store being sold at the Dollar Store.

As someone who worships our mighty Lord Gaben and his sales magic I understand where you’re coming from, but it’s not really the same thing since it wasn’t a gem store sale.

Doesn’t matter. A business has the obligation to sell items that work as advertised and may refund purchases within a certain period of time if that’s their policy. Any decision they make in selling items is only to benefit them, not previous purchasers They can put the item on a rickety card table by the door and sell it for pennies the day after you purchase it, if they so desire. They can give the item away as a gift to all who come in the door, if that’s their wish. The purchasers choice at the time of purchase is, do I want to buy that item at that price now or do I want to wait for a sale. If it goes on sale after purchase, well, get a refund if it’s within the grace period. However, complaining 2 years after purchase that an item is now being sold not according to your preferences isn’t reasonable. No company can or should consider a previous purchasers personal preferences in how an item is sold.

ANet may not be a brick and mortar store, but that doesn’t mean that it needs to cater to people upset because an item is sold one way once then sold another way a different time.

Edit: a comparable real world situation might be if someone buys an item for $10, then 2 years later he comes to the store and its being given away as a door prize. He feels that it cheapens his purchase from 2 years back so he complains to the manager about it.

Oh, and I don’t think I saw they mentioned, so I’m just going to throw this here…

Maybe the item barely sold when it was first released? It could be the money they made from it wasn’t worth adding it back to the store. And since SAB is going to be yearly, adding it to a merchant and disappears will still have it attached to the merchant. Adding it to the gem store might take more time. It could be at it’s just not worth it to them anymore. But I’m still on the:

You pay what you want, and if it goes on sale, it does. It they give it away, they do. Anet does have a grace period, but 2 years is most certainly outside that window.

I’m sorry but this is pretty stupid complaint. You bought item 2 years ago and now it happens to be heavily discounted(back then 800 gems was probably no more than 70-80g). You still got to use it for 2 years. Do you also rage at game sales, that people got game for $5 2years after you paid $60 at release?

Doggie.3184:

None of those points matter when his point is that it’s a bad business practice that makes his purchases feel useless by giving them away later with little effort.

None of that matters, since (a) it’s a common (and healthy) business practice to offer old stuff in new ways and (b) no one “makes” anyone’s purchases feel useless — the item didn’t change, only the acquisition method. And the only reason the OP “feels” badly is they decided to calculate the value of time in a completely unrealistic way.

In effect, the OP has chosen to take umbrage over something that happens all the time in all sorts of situations.

Just to clarify,

The complaint is that something’s price went down a couple of years after it was released?

Is there a consumer product where this is not the norm?

Ashen.2907:

Just to clarify,

The complaint is that something’s price went down a couple of years after it was released?

Is there a consumer product where this is not the norm?

Wrong, to clarify:

The complaint is that gem store exclusive items should stay gem store exclusive items.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The OP probably agrees with those who think their purchase of GW2 was trivialized by including the core game with the purchase of HoT and by offering it as play-for-free to the masses.

Incorrect, try reading the whole first post next time.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Finally, how are you equating 35 bubbles to 5.25 gold? I have 5.25 gold — who do I give that to for 35 bubbles so I can get a mini moto? The fact that basic skins can be acquired for X gold doesn’t mean that a bubble is worth X/35 gold. Time invested certainly doesn’t equate to a certain amount of gold (if it did, sentrying in WvW would be a lot more popular) and just because some people can and are willing to run SAB quickly doesn’t mean that most people can.

Fine I will change that. 35 bauble baubles is worth no gold; they are a worthless item that is so easy to get. If you can’t use a time based measure to calculate the worth of a currency you can earn when nothing from the currency is sell able then the currency is worthless.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

Why is his complaint being trivialized? This is ridiculous, he has a point. Agree, or disagree, don’t just tell him “oh think of it another way.” The fact is he spent money on something that he could have gotten later for much less money. Kinda how I feel about heart of thorns… but I digress.

I personally don’t agree with him, but I won’t trivialize his argument.

Thanks, even though you disagree with me.

Danikat.8537:

(By the way, was it really necessary to capitalize every instance of the word ‘gem’? I doubt I’m the only one who reads capitals as shouting, which makes posts like this seem very aggressive.)

Most likely due to the fact I have been going through lots of old documents at work mostly dealing with a database system they used to use called GEMS before it was decommissioned about 10 years ago. Been typing it so much of late I just kept going.

But… what if it was still a Gem-store item and it would cost 5 gems. Then it would be okay then? Because then it would clearly just have been a discount.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The OP probably agrees with those who think their purchase of GW2 was trivialized by including the core game with the purchase of HoT and by offering it as play-for-free to the masses.

escaflowne.7816:

Incorrect, try reading the whole first post next time.

How is it different? you paid X price; new players can get the item for Y price. You believe that trivializes your purchase. That’s the same argument that people made about paying full price for the expac.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Finally, how are you equating 35 bubbles to 5.25 gold? I have 5.25 gold — who do I give that to for 35 bubbles so I can get a mini moto? The fact that basic skins can be acquired for X gold doesn’t mean that a bubble is worth X/35 gold. Time invested certainly doesn’t equate to a certain amount of gold (if it did, sentrying in WvW would be a lot more popular) and just because some people can and are willing to run SAB quickly doesn’t mean that most people can.

escaflowne.7816:

Fine I will change that. 35 bauble baubles is worth no gold; they are a worthless item that is so easy to get. If you can’t use a time based measure to calculate the worth of a currency you can earn when nothing from the currency is sell able then the currency is worthless.

You can’t use a time-based measure to calculate the worth of a non-tradeable currency that cannot be used to purchase other tradeable goods. The gold value of something is exactly what others are willing to pay (or what you can get for it in game) and, in this case, no one can buy baubles directly.

This alone doesn’t invalidate your argument — it just means it’s not helping your cause to go through a complicated gold-equivalency analysis that depends entirely on who is doing the measuring. For example, it would take me hundreds of hours to earn enough baubles, it takes the experts hours (as you suggested), and I have friends that could do it within hours, but they never would because they aren’t interested in baubles for their own sake.

In effect, your argument is that ANet should never offer an in-game acquisition method for things that they sold in the gem shop at one time, because that somehow invalidates those who spent cash to get the gems.

There’s no argument I make that is going to make you feel better, if that bothers you. I would urge you, however, to reconsider that point of view since it’s a very common business practice. A local ISP is offering me a free Galaxy pad if I join with them; that was a $400 value to someone a year ago and now it’s a freebie (but only to new customers).

That doesn’t make the practice ‘moral’ or ‘better’ than alternatives. However, it does mean that ANet hasn’t done anything the least bit out of the ordinary by offering the boomboxes for the SAB currency, two years after the item was sold in the gem shop.

escaflowne.7816:

Ashen.2907:

Just to clarify,

The complaint is that something’s price went down a couple of years after it was released?

Is there a consumer product where this is not the norm?

Wrong, to clarify:

The complaint is that gem store exclusive items should stay gem store exclusive items.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The OP probably agrees with those who think their purchase of GW2 was trivialized by including the core game with the purchase of HoT and by offering it as play-for-free to the masses.

Incorrect, try reading the whole first post next time.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Finally, how are you equating 35 bubbles to 5.25 gold? I have 5.25 gold — who do I give that to for 35 bubbles so I can get a mini moto? The fact that basic skins can be acquired for X gold doesn’t mean that a bubble is worth X/35 gold. Time invested certainly doesn’t equate to a certain amount of gold (if it did, sentrying in WvW would be a lot more popular) and just because some people can and are willing to run SAB quickly doesn’t mean that most people can.

Fine I will change that. 35 bauble baubles is worth no gold; they are a worthless item that is so easy to get. If you can’t use a time based measure to calculate the worth of a currency you can earn when nothing from the currency is sell able then the currency is worthless.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

Why is his complaint being trivialized? This is ridiculous, he has a point. Agree, or disagree, don’t just tell him “oh think of it another way.” The fact is he spent money on something that he could have gotten later for much less money. Kinda how I feel about heart of thorns… but I digress.

I personally don’t agree with him, but I won’t trivialize his argument.

Thanks, even though you disagree with me.

Danikat.8537:

(By the way, was it really necessary to capitalize every instance of the word ‘gem’? I doubt I’m the only one who reads capitals as shouting, which makes posts like this seem very aggressive.)

Most likely due to the fact I have been going through lots of old documents at work mostly dealing with a database system they used to use called GEMS before it was decommissioned about 10 years ago. Been typing it so much of late I just kept going.

The, “’gem store exclusive,” item could always be purchased via an in game earnable currency. So, the item could be purchased by means of gold before. No one ever had to buy gems in order to purchase the item. My point stands. The item has simply become cheaper to buy over time, like most consumer products ever produced and sold. Why should this one item be different than the many millions of different items sold since humanity developed the idea of trade way back in prehistory?

This doesn’t even make sense. Lets just never buy anything then because it could be cheaper in the future.

If you buy a computer, do you want a refund 2 years later because the same computer went on sale?

Hey, I bought Red Alert when it was new for full price. It’s a free game now. Where’s my compensation?

I think your issue is, in fact, a thing that appear in real life. You buy something but two years after it’s half the price. Deal with it.

These items was exclusive to the gemstore because it was the only way to get them. Now, it’s just not exclusive anymore. This word is not here saying “These items will be in the gemstore forever”.

Should I complain about toxic gauntlets that you can get from game currencies now? It was exclusive to the gemstore.

I think it’s nice to see some old gemstore items back to the game and purchasable with in game currencies.