Guild Wars 2

This is something I have been thinking about lately, considering that in this game some classes are very easy to play (to the point where you just got to learn to skills, 1 and 2) while in other classes you have to keep track of your cooldowns, switch weapons/kits frequently and so on. Considering the wide range of complexity, at what point would the game be balanced? Should a class that requires more effort reward the same amount as the simpler class for the same objective or should the reward be the same?
Things to think about: If the complex class rewards more (such as in more damage, better healing etc), wouldn’t that mean that class is overall more stronger than the rest? But if it requires more to do the same amount, would it not mean that balance is skewed in favor of simpler classes?

I am interested in what the community (and devs) thinks about this, so please share your thoughts, and try not to flame.

It’s pretty much a no-win scenario for developers.

If they make all classes equally powerful, easy classes end up incredibly over-represented and resented. Why play a class that requires double the effort to get the same effect? Some people will for a challenge… but most will just complain.

On the other hand if they make harder classes give more performance… then you run into the reverse problem and once everyone (or at least a sizable portion of the population) figures the class out, it becomes the only viable choice. Queue complaining.

The only solution is to balance both the skill required and the power level, but of course that’s even harder to do.

Balance should always be set around the performance of a certain profession. Not around how complex a profession is to play.

You can’t balance based off someone’s opinion. A profession like the Engineer may seem complex to play to some people, while others find it the easiest to play. You can’t make that profession stronger just cause a few players find it harder to play and think they should be stronger because of it.

Hey, going to share another non-link here:

Go find the people behind “Extra Credits” and look up their season 4 “Perfect Imbalance” and season 5 “Balancing for Skill”.

Okay, let’s get real for a second…

At a fundamental level, every class has a basic attack (skill 1); other attacks are comprised of a weakening attack, a knockback attack, an AoE/multi-target attack, and a longer cooldown “large damage” attack. That’s basically it. Other than skill 1, the ordering of those skills varies, and the variations on a theme are present… but they’re just variations on a theme. The additional skills pick up “some” variety, but if you break those down, you’ll find a few so-called “boons”, regeneration, speed enhancement, etc. for every class.

My point being that there honestly isn’t a lot of difference other than some classes being squishy, some being not so squishy, and some being hard-armored; some doing more DPS than others; and variations on the hit points and healing abilities… corresponding — it seems — with the classes’ squishyness.

I’ve got five 80’s that I’ve leveled up together. Quite seriously, I don’t find a lot of difference in their gameplay. I just have to remember whether I press 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 for a given general capability… and I can do that in my sleep.

The only exception is that I have to be careful with autoattack on my ranger when he is using a sword since he likes to run off the edge of cliffs and platforms to his death (stupid, stupid, stupid implementation of “pounce”, and since it’s autoattack, he’s screwed).

If you want complexity, try Rift… or even go back to WoW. GW2 is not complex.

Its balancing issues, IMHO, are between players and mobs/NPCs, not between classes… My characters can be stun/knockdown/daze -locked by groups of mobs; players can’t do that to mobs because of animation delays, server-client connection lag, and cooldowns. I might,if I’m lucky, stun/knockdown/daze a mob for a second or two… or not, since events don’t always fire, although the cooldowns always seem to fire…

My characters can be one-shot by mobs; players can’t do that to mobs. Every now and then I’ll see a mob disappear, but it’s obviously a glitch, not from damage. Meanwhile, my elementalist is scared to death of going anywhere she can’t kite a mob.

My characters have to suffer with the poor implementation of the camera (narrow FOV and its tendency to not keep targets in view), horrible implementation of autotargeting (poor bunnies; I feel so sorry for you), and poor TAB-targeting, all of which make situational awareness a problem for the player; mobs don’t have any problems with that… etc.

This is the first MMORPG I’ve played (and I’ve played a lot of them going all the way back to UO) where human intelligence doesn’t give a player an advantage over the mob…

…and for my warrior, I simply right-click on the mob and then go make a cup of coffee. His health regen will carry him all the way through the fight and the next couple of untra-quick respawns…

No, this game is not balanced… but it’s not because of complexity.

Lord Kreegan.8123:

Okay, let’s get real for a second…
At a fundamental level, every class has a basic attack (skill 1); other attacks are comprised of a weakening attack, a knockback attack, an AoE/multi-target attack, and a longer cooldown “large damage” attack. That’s basically it.

Please, let’s get real, as you say.

— Ranger, Longbow —
Skill 1 is a direct damage simple strike which gets stronger the further you are away.
Skill 2 is a rapid-fire volley of weaker attacks.
Skill 3 applies Vulnerable (10 stacks)
Skill 4 is a knockback and interrupt. Sometimes it’s an interrupt only.
Skill 5 is a moderately-sized Area of Effect which applies Cripple.

— Warrior, Longbow —
Skill 1 is two arrows which hit the same target, each separate.
Skill 2 is a short-range spread of fire which causes Burning
Skill 3 is a long arcing burst which detonates in a moderate-sized Area of Effect. It causes Burning.
Skill 4 causes Blinding.
Skill 5 is a single-target arrow which Bleeds and Immobilizes.

I see absolutely tons of overlap and no differentiation between these two at all. (/sarcasm) Shall we go on, because I could do this for a while in fact. A class of weapons usually, but not always, is similar in the hands of all the classes. With a notable exception here:

— Ranger, Axe; Main Hand —
Skill 1 is a bouncing axe which can bounce twice. It can hit one target only, two targets, or three targets.
Skill 2 is a short-range spread which causes bleeding.
Skill 3 is a short-range throw which causes Chill, and your pet’s next attack causes Weakness.

— Warrior, Axe; Main Hand —
Skill 1 is a chain of strikes at melee range.
Skill 2 is a spin in place, at melee range.
Skill 3 throws the axe and cripples foes it hits.

These are not only not at all the same, they are fundamentally different.

My point being that there honestly isn’t a lot of difference other than some classes being squishy, some being not so squishy, and some being hard-armored; some doing more DPS than others; and variations on the hit points and healing abilities… corresponding — it seems — with the classes’ squishyness.

Except some classes don’t have access to some status ailments normally. Rangers do not get Confusion except in two ways: Throwing Gunk (an environmental item) or with the Reef Drake’s shriek. “Big deal.”

Elementalists don’t get to swap weapon sets in combat, only elemental attunements. Any other class can switch between melee and ranged, or two different melee/ranged types. Elementalists are stuck with whatever they’re holding until combat is over.

Thieves can go into stealth. Check the forum, I’m really sure you can find how this sets the class apart from any other. I won’t waste any more time on this one.

I’ve got five 80’s that I’ve leveled up together. Quite seriously, I don’t find a lot of difference in their gameplay. I just have to remember whether I press 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 for a given general capability… and I can do that in my sleep.

I’d take this a lot more seriously if it weren’t for the next part.

The only exception is that I have to be careful with autoattack on my ranger when he is using a sword since he likes to run off the edge of cliffs and platforms to his death (stupid, stupid, stupid implementation of “pounce”, and since it’s autoattack, he’s screwed).

Since it’s apparent you have a Ranger, I’m mystified you didn’t remember the difference between their axe use and a Warrior’s axe use. Similarly, I suppose it’d be worthwhile to note that swords in a Ranger’s hand is not the same as a sword in a Warrior’s hand. Rangers’ sword use is about evasion, Warriors’ sword use is about hitting something with lots of cuts and Bleeding.

Compared to GW1, GW2 is a much easier game and obviously aimed at a younger audience.

Flamenco.3894:

Compared to GW1, GW2 is a much easier game and obviously aimed at a younger audience.

No argument it’s aimed at a younger audience. As for “easier” vs “harder” . . .

Nothing has gotten as hard as “Eternal Grove, Hard Mode, full bonus, H/H only” for me. On the other hand, only one thing was as easy for me in GW1 as some of the encounters open-world in GW2.

. . . and that was making the Great Destroyer kill itself with a Pain Inverter and two interrupts.