Condition Builds- Not fun to play with I'm sorry.

Condition Builds- Not fun to play with I'm sorry.

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Posted by: Lyuben.2613

Lyuben.2613

I’m mainly talking about PvE here but condition builds suffer from two pretty big drawbacks:

You do very little damage to structures. Killing a set of centaur weapons, or a wall, or whatever it is takes 5 times longer than a power build. Is this intended? Is it meant to be fun?

You become useless very fast in world boss/big boss events. The cap on burning, poison and bleed is reached in seconds and your damage is useless.

If you have 50 people with a power build hitting a boss, then you have 50 useful players contributing to the fight.

If you have 49 people with a power build hitting a boss and 1 person with a condition damage build, then you have 50 useful players contributing to the fight.

If you have 50 people with a condition damage build hitting a boss, then you have 1 useful player, and 49 useless players contributing to the fight.

This is obviously exaggeration somewhat, but the point remains, condition build suffer huge diminishing returns based on how many there are, while power build suffer none.

This would not be so bad if arenanet didn’t railroad every build into either power or conditions, afterall, gear stats are made so that going both power AND condition damage is very inefficient.

Most gear is made up of 3 stats at the end game. So, we’ll use that as a template.

If your stats are 1000 power, 1000 precision, 1000 toughness, then you are going for a power build. Assuming that 1000 power= 100% increase in damage of power builds, then overall that set gives you 100% in a power build.

If your stats are 1000 malice, 1000 precision and 1000 toughness, then you are going for a condition damage build. Assuming again, that 1000 malice= 100% increase in damage of condition damage builds, then overall that set gives you 100% more power in a condition damage build.

However… if you go 1000 malice, 1000 power and 1000 vitality, then you are not going to get a 200% increase in damage, you’ll end up with 100% again, but you don’t have the privilege of another non damage stat such as toughness, precision, healing or others. This is because weapons seem to be done in a way that is either: 100% power/malice related, or 50/50 per weapon. Which means that in order to benefit from 1000 malice and 1000 power, you need to have either a pure power weapon, and a pure conditions weapon, or two hybrid weapons, which leads to power giving you 50% power increase in such a build, and not 100% as you are only benefiting either only 1 weapon, or the half of two weapons.

And so… my point with all this rambling is: you are railroaded into either power or malice builds, and malice builds ain’t as well done as power builds.

Please fix this by making individual burning/poison/bleed, instead of a single one. Maybe in dungeons it can be different, I don’t know, but in general, its not great.

And furthermore, allow ‘objects’ to bleed/burn/poison.

The human tutorial boss is a good example of this. He is the only one that can’t be damaged by conditions. How is that meant to teach newbies about the game? Most of the players go human and yet humans are given a sub-par starting boss as it does not involve the mechanic of conditions.

Vibor Bauman- Level 80 Engineer- Gandara

Condition Builds- Not fun to play with I'm sorry.

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Posted by: BuFFoTheClown.2413

BuFFoTheClown.2413

I agree 100%.

In a game where you choose from 8 dps classes, you simply want the class that makes the most numbers float over an enemy’s head. Condition is fun solo, but when you try to fight bosses and structure, it becomes a liability.

Condition Necro here.

Condition Builds- Not fun to play with I'm sorry.

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Posted by: MajorFauxPas.2364

MajorFauxPas.2364

IKR… my Guard has all these burn skills that do varying amounts of burn damage, but you can’t stack burn effects at all, so condition damage is completely useless as a means to deal damage. Have to rely on power and the initial damage dealt. You can tell conditions suck by all the low cost cd gear on market.

But for the equation, you have to divide by 1000 for level 80 stats to get the damage multiplier.

What it comes down to is: 2000 power = 1x increase in damage, 1000 power = 0x increase in damage. I’m not even sure you do any damage at all if your power was 1000 at lvl 80.

Hey, um, which way to the outhouse?

(edited by MajorFauxPas.2364)

Condition Builds- Not fun to play with I'm sorry.

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Posted by: Lyuben.2613

Lyuben.2613

You have to divide by 1000 for level 80 stats to get the damage multiplier.

What it comes down to is: 2000 power = 100% increase in damage, 1000 power = 0% increase in damage. I’m not even sure you do any damage at all if your power was 1000.

The numbers were arbitrary.

I made them up to illustrate a point.

I probably should have pointed them out.
I was using those numbers to illustrate how you are railroaded into either power or condition builds, and going both isn’t worth while.

Vibor Bauman- Level 80 Engineer- Gandara

Condition Builds- Not fun to play with I'm sorry.

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Posted by: Vorch.2985

Vorch.2985

I’m mainly talking about PvE here but condition builds suffer from two pretty big drawbacks:

You do very little damage to structures. Killing a set of centaur weapons, or a wall, or whatever it is takes 5 times longer than a power build. Is this intended? Is it meant to be fun?

You become useless very fast in world boss/big boss events. The cap on burning, poison and bleed is reached in seconds and your damage is useless.

If you have 50 people with a power build hitting a boss, then you have 50 useful players contributing to the fight.

If you have 49 people with a power build hitting a boss and 1 person with a condition damage build, then you have 50 useful players contributing to the fight.

If you have 50 people with a condition damage build hitting a boss, then you have 1 useful player, and 49 useless players contributing to the fight.

This is obviously exaggeration somewhat, but the point remains, condition build suffer huge diminishing returns based on how many there are, while power build suffer none.

This would not be so bad if arenanet didn’t railroad every build into either power or conditions, afterall, gear stats are made so that going both power AND condition damage is very inefficient.

Most gear is made up of 3 stats at the end game. So, we’ll use that as a template.

If your stats are 1000 power, 1000 precision, 1000 toughness, then you are going for a power build. Assuming that 1000 power= 100% increase in damage of power builds, then overall that set gives you 100% in a power build.

If your stats are 1000 malice, 1000 precision and 1000 toughness, then you are going for a condition damage build. Assuming again, that 1000 malice= 100% increase in damage of condition damage builds, then overall that set gives you 100% more power in a condition damage build.

However… if you go 1000 malice, 1000 power and 1000 vitality, then you are not going to get a 200% increase in damage, you’ll end up with 100% again, but you don’t have the privilege of another non damage stat such as toughness, precision, healing or others. This is because weapons seem to be done in a way that is either: 100% power/malice related, or 50/50 per weapon. Which means that in order to benefit from 1000 malice and 1000 power, you need to have either a pure power weapon, and a pure conditions weapon, or two hybrid weapons, which leads to power giving you 50% power increase in such a build, and not 100% as you are only benefiting either only 1 weapon, or the half of two weapons.

And so… my point with all this rambling is: you are railroaded into either power or malice builds, and malice builds ain’t as well done as power builds.

Please fix this by making individual burning/poison/bleed, instead of a single one. Maybe in dungeons it can be different, I don’t know, but in general, its not great.

And furthermore, allow ‘objects’ to bleed/burn/poison.

The human tutorial boss is a good example of this. He is the only one that can’t be damaged by conditions. How is that meant to teach newbies about the game? Most of the players go human and yet humans are given a sub-par starting boss as it does not involve the mechanic of conditions.

I agree and disagree with you.

In most PvE and WvW with small scale battles (between 3-10 players), I find that my condition builds are quite viable. HOWEVER, I do agree that once you get to major events with 20+ people, you are essentially useless. I try to solve this issue by switching to a damage set for large scale events, but otherwise, I stick to condition damage.

Here’s what people thought of GW1 when it first came out: http://tinyurl.com/bntcvyc
“A release is 7 days or less away or has just happened within the last 7 days…
These are the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria.”

Condition Builds- Not fun to play with I'm sorry.

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Posted by: Agemnon.4608

Agemnon.4608

I rely on conditions as an elementalist as burning + radiation field means their HP drops faster when I’m downed. stand next to ranged, circle strafe in the radiation field, lay down a lava, and when I’m downed an additional lava comes up. I try avoiding such situations when I can but sometimes when you think you’re going to fight 1 on 1 the enemy has… umm… shall we say clown car “hammer space” where mobs spontaneously appear and go after you (pirates and risen especially).

Condition damage has certainly