Condition builds are useless in new content
On world bosses I get like 1-2 bleeds
Possibly because you’re not the only one doing the bleeding – there’s a cap even on bosses.
Condition damage was a failed design and it is core. It will take them a lot of work to re-do it properly (they’ll probably never do it). Another example of what looked nice on paper but was horribly implemented and apparently had no feedback or testing. It seems ANet rushed this one or never gave it a second thought.
Zerk is the average Joe build. Don’t pat yourself in the back too hard.
On world bosses I get like 1-2 bleeds
Possibly because you’re not the only one doing the bleeding – there’s a cap even on bosses.
Well that’s what I’m talking about.
Sucks if you aren’t necro. 25 bleed stacks over the zombie mob clears then up real quick and we got DS #1 for the walls. Imagine a confusion Mesmer try to tackle the walls.
Sucks if you aren’t necro. 25 bleed stacks over the zombie mob clears then up real quick and we got DS #1 for the walls. Imagine a confusion Mesmer try to tackle the walls.
Confusion mesmer.. in PVE? What? This isn’t something that should ever be taken in a dungeon or any pve content worth doing.
- “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”
Not in just new content, It has always been useless in pve if you aren’t soloing.
Condition stacks must be per player. So, I mean every player must have an opportunity to deal conditions up to 25 stacks. With current system, berseker/power builds get the reward/loot while condition builds try to deal even a small amount of damage desperately. You aren’t helping others if you can’t deal damage as well. Current dot system is broken in crowded areas and dungeons.
Sadly, conditions were always pretty useless vs. world bosses. It never bothered me too much, because I still did enough damage to get credit and I did usually see 3-4 of my bleeds actually working on the boss. But I thought this patch was going to change that. Let everyone have their own personal 25 stack for world bosses/champs.
As an aside, was it this patch that made world bosses un-crit-able? Because now 4+ stats are pretty useless versus world bosses (condi damage, condi duration, precision, crit damage are all meaningless).
yeah but in old content I didn’t care for dmg in group fights. Bosses was easy.
And i really hate “structure” dmg with condition build.
yeah but in old content I didn’t care for dmg in group fights. Bosses was easy.
And i really hate “structure” dmg with condition build.
Yep both of these are true. To be fair, I don’t have too much of a complaint against the new bosses. I haven’t tried killing them off hours yet, and I have a feeling that is going to suck (I think the timers are a stupid idea).
Honestly my complaint is that they “nerfed” world bosses (2 champ boxes do not make up for x2-x4 the hp) and not champ farming, which was already more profitable.
What people don’t realize is that conditions applied to mobs are capped at 25 total stacks, not 25 of each type. That means even though a Wold Boss might be showing 25 stacks of Confusion, Bleed, Vulnerability, etc… only 25 total of those are even being applied.
ANet claims it is due to bandwidth limitations, but that’s complete BS. It comes down to lack of foresight and poor design. Other MMOs managed to pull off conditions just fine, and defending a poor design is a slap in the face to people who enjoy the condition meta.
For this reason, I will never roll a condition build, even if they are still viable in one small aspect of the game (PvP).
One of the main reasons that zerker builds are king.
It is pretty bad to be a necromancer on Tequatl. My first memories on old Tequatl were of barely ever bent able to get bronze, until the damage threshold requirement to tag the event and to get gold were lowered.
1. Staff only has one skill that hurts Teq, but it is poor damage and is really our only ranged option. Only staff 1 even hits him.
2. Tequatl might as well be immune to conditions, since your conditions are cleared after one tick due to how the condition cap works.
3. Power builds rely on crit % for most of their DPS since auto attacks are really slow. But Teqatl is immune to crit. No quick attacks Except for dagger.
4. Minions get 2 shot and have long cooldowns.
5. Obviously having no/few defensive skills or vigor doesn’t help. Necromancer stun breaks are terrible/long cooldown, which means that Teq’s super long fear destroys the class.
6. For whatever reason well of blood is a light field, not a water field, which means that the healing support you can bring isn’t wanted. (Also you have few or no finishers)
There are more reasons. Time to Reroll?
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Do you really expect to only use one build to the same effect no matter what content you are playing?
Wouldnt that be boring?
You should be happy that its so easy to change builds in this game.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Do you really expect to only use one build to the same effect no matter what content you are playing?
Wouldnt that be boring?
You should be happy that its so easy to change builds in this game.
I hope you aren’t serious. Change trait/utility isn’t change build. To change a build you need a whole set of armor+weapon+accessory. And ascended accessories/ring/etc are mostly time-gated.
Do you really expect to only use one build to the same effect no matter what content you are playing?
Wouldnt that be boring?
You should be happy that its so easy to change builds in this game.
If it was that easy it wouldn’t be a problem, but switching all the gear, traits, utilities to just participate in a specific event is too hard and time consuming. I’ve made a suggestion about build preset system to change builds quickly.
Thread : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/My-concept-of-build-preset-system/
It is pretty bad to be a necromancer on Tequatl. My first memories on old Tequatl were of barely ever bent able to get bronze, until the damage threshold requirement to tag the event and to get gold were lowered.
1. Staff only has one skill that hurts Teq, but it is poor damage and is really our only ranged option. Only staff 1 even hits him.
2. Tequatl might as well be immune to conditions, since your conditions are cleared after one tick due to how the condition cap works.
3. Power builds rely on crit % for most of their DPS since auto attacks are really slow. But Teqatl is immune to crit. No quick attacks Except for dagger.
4. Minions get 2 shot and have long cooldowns.
5. Obviously having no/few defensive skills or vigor doesn’t help. Necromancer stun breaks are terrible/long cooldown, which means that Teq’s super long fear destroys the class.
6. For whatever reason well of blood is a light field, not a water field, which means that the healing support you can bring isn’t wanted. (Also you have few or no finishers)
There are more reasons. Time to Reroll?
Necro’s weapons really not very good vs Teq….
Weapon breakdown:
Staff: 1200 range but only one skill work
Scepter: 900 range but condition damage
Dagger MH: best direct damage but melee, hence can’t stack with other to gain combo
Dagger OH: condition
Axe MH: direct damage, 600 range, crappy dps. For stacking vul which is capped.
Warhorn: melee
Focus: for vul stack and boon stripping
Really hard to choose. Best thing we can do is trait for wells.
It is pretty bad to be a necromancer on Tequatl. My first memories on old Tequatl were of barely ever bent able to get bronze, until the damage threshold requirement to tag the event and to get gold were lowered.
1. Staff only has one skill that hurts Teq, but it is poor damage and is really our only ranged option. Only staff 1 even hits him.
2. Tequatl might as well be immune to conditions, since your conditions are cleared after one tick due to how the condition cap works.
3. Power builds rely on crit % for most of their DPS since auto attacks are really slow. But Teqatl is immune to crit. No quick attacks Except for dagger.
4. Minions get 2 shot and have long cooldowns.
5. Obviously having no/few defensive skills or vigor doesn’t help. Necromancer stun breaks are terrible/long cooldown, which means that Teq’s super long fear destroys the class.
6. For whatever reason well of blood is a light field, not a water field, which means that the healing support you can bring isn’t wanted. (Also you have few or no finishers)
There are more reasons. Time to Reroll?
This is very true. The only thing I do on my Necro at Tequatl is time Wells correctly so the zerg stack can get 3 seconds of Protection.
It is pretty bad to be a necromancer on Tequatl. My first memories on old Tequatl were of barely ever bent able to get bronze, until the damage threshold requirement to tag the event and to get gold were lowered.
1. Staff only has one skill that hurts Teq, but it is poor damage and is really our only ranged option. Only staff 1 even hits him.
2. Tequatl might as well be immune to conditions, since your conditions are cleared after one tick due to how the condition cap works.
3. Power builds rely on crit % for most of their DPS since auto attacks are really slow. But Teqatl is immune to crit. No quick attacks Except for dagger.
4. Minions get 2 shot and have long cooldowns.
5. Obviously having no/few defensive skills or vigor doesn’t help. Necromancer stun breaks are terrible/long cooldown, which means that Teq’s super long fear destroys the class.
6. For whatever reason well of blood is a light field, not a water field, which means that the healing support you can bring isn’t wanted. (Also you have few or no finishers)
There are more reasons. Time to Reroll?
This is very true. The only thing I do on my Necro at Tequatl is time Wells correctly so the zerg stack can get 3 seconds of Protection.
Only 5 people benefit from that…..
As a Necro on Teq I spam my crappy Staff #1, and drop wells underneath his chin so that they hit all 3 of his body parts for triple damage, thats all you can do really.
PVT gear with undead slaying sigil.. still crappy dps but at least I can stay alive easily.
2x 80 Necro, 80 Ranger, 80 Thief
Change to a power build. Optimize for the content you’re fighting. If you want to stay condition, defend the turrets instead of attacking the dragon.
While you will have to get new gear, that’s the name of the game. You need a set for PvE, WvW, etc etc.
But yeah the point is Condition specs have been completely neglected in PvE for over a year, and its plain ridiculous that anything hasnt been done by now.
“technical limitations” what a load of crap. Other MMOs miraculously allow DoT classes to use all their spells on a boss…
2x 80 Necro, 80 Ranger, 80 Thief
I agree that condition builds are useless against some things, but Necros…
…why don’t you just defend the turrets from Risen? Your marks would be very useful there.
I don’t get why everybody insists on wailing on Taco when there’s plenty of other roles to fill.
Karaoke – Guild Leader – [MEGA] Super Mega Happy Fun Time
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org
It is pretty bad to be a necromancer on Tequatl. My first memories on old Tequatl were of barely ever bent able to get bronze, until the damage threshold requirement to tag the event and to get gold were lowered.
1. Staff only has one skill that hurts Teq, but it is poor damage and is really our only ranged option. Only staff 1 even hits him.
2. Tequatl might as well be immune to conditions, since your conditions are cleared after one tick due to how the condition cap works.
3. Power builds rely on crit % for most of their DPS since auto attacks are really slow. But Teqatl is immune to crit. No quick attacks Except for dagger.
4. Minions get 2 shot and have long cooldowns.
5. Obviously having no/few defensive skills or vigor doesn’t help. Necromancer stun breaks are terrible/long cooldown, which means that Teq’s super long fear destroys the class.
6. For whatever reason well of blood is a light field, not a water field, which means that the healing support you can bring isn’t wanted. (Also you have few or no finishers)
There are more reasons. Time to Reroll?
Necro’s weapons really not very good vs Teq….
Weapon breakdown:
Staff: 1200 range but only one skill work
Scepter: 900 range but condition damage
Dagger MH: best direct damage but melee, hence can’t stack with other to gain combo
Dagger OH: condition
Axe MH: direct damage, 600 range, crappy dps. For stacking vul which is capped.
Warhorn: melee
Focus: for vul stack and boon strippingReally hard to choose. Best thing we can do is trait for wells.
As a necro player as main, I can say that power necro is garbage compared to condition builds.(due to the necro’s condition weighted mechanic) But the problem is, 25 stack limit for all players in the area is very limiting for condition weighted characters. It must be removed from pve at least. Personally I use dot builds on my warrior and thief too, because its my playstyle..
why am I obligated to play as berserker only?
Every player needs his own 25 stack sized condition space to be useful for other players and get loot/reward on his own. Even without a condition stack limit, dot builds are already inferior to berserker builds when it’s about getting loot, due to low dps/high dmg over time. For example, a zerg kills a champion in 4-5 secs, that means your 16s bleed can’t deal its full damage in this timespan. What I mean is, a condition build is already inferior about getting loot/reward, at least stack limit must be removed and every player should have his own 25 stack limit to make it fair for all kinds of damage builds.
It’s true. It took me a while to realize my necro was better around the turrets.
Of course, this is because I had no experience in the fight and didn’t even know what to hit. I didn’t even want to fight the dragon; I was in Fen when I logged out, and when I logged in, it kicked me into an overflow right in front of him, lol.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
I agree that condition builds are useless against some things, but Necros…
…why don’t you just defend the turrets from Risen? Your marks would be very useful there.
I don’t get why everybody insists on wailing on Taco when there’s plenty of other roles to fill.
The problem is not only tequatl, it’s in every crowded pve area or event.
For example scarlet events and champions, world events of all type, dungeons if there’s more than 1 condition build etc.
For tequatl, yes I help others by defending turrets when I’m at necro. But if I need to hit/deal damage to the boss in some section of a world event, the problem begins…
I’m not just talking about tequatl btw.
(edited by Umut.5471)
I’ve talked to people – lots of them – who think you have to damage Tequila Sunrise in order to get credit. I think there’s just a lot of poor knowledge out there about how events in GW2 work.
On my shout Guardian, I’ll often do entire event and boss chains without bothering to attack the boss. Ever.
Karaoke – Guild Leader – [MEGA] Super Mega Happy Fun Time
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org
It is pretty bad to be a necromancer on Tequatl. My first memories on old Tequatl were of barely ever bent able to get bronze, until the damage threshold requirement to tag the event and to get gold were lowered.
1. Staff only has one skill that hurts Teq, but it is poor damage and is really our only ranged option. Only staff 1 even hits him.
2. Tequatl might as well be immune to conditions, since your conditions are cleared after one tick due to how the condition cap works.
3. Power builds rely on crit % for most of their DPS since auto attacks are really slow. But Teqatl is immune to crit. No quick attacks Except for dagger.
4. Minions get 2 shot and have long cooldowns.
5. Obviously having no/few defensive skills or vigor doesn’t help. Necromancer stun breaks are terrible/long cooldown, which means that Teq’s super long fear destroys the class.
6. For whatever reason well of blood is a light field, not a water field, which means that the healing support you can bring isn’t wanted. (Also you have few or no finishers)
There are more reasons. Time to Reroll?
This is very true. The only thing I do on my Necro at Tequatl is time Wells correctly so the zerg stack can get 3 seconds of Protection.
Only 5 people benefit from that…..
Oh, guess I’m more useless than I thought.
Do you get credit for the event if you defend the turrets? ‘cuz I’m all for that if I can still get gold at the end.
But if you can only get credit by wailing on Teq, I’m gonna go wail on Teq.
Thought I had with a buddy of mine, who is a condition necro, if the current caps can’t be changed for “reasons.” Condition classes should be able to charge up a power bar, relative to the condition damage that would normally be inflicted. This charged ability can then be discharged for direct damage. Whether it’s just a utility skill, or something granted by a minor trait bonus etc, idk.
Do you really expect to only use one build to the same effect no matter what content you are playing?
Wouldnt that be boring?
You should be happy that its so easy to change builds in this game.
As long as you don’t want to do it to cope with the content right in your face, of course, since there’s no way to respec without going back to a city (or newbie area just outside the racial city gates).
In fairness, it’s not just new content. We’re pretty useless on the older world bosses as well. Also if there’s another condi spec in your dungeon group.
It didn’t matter as much before, but now with the event timers it means that high DPS must be maintained in order to succeed. This makes it so bringing a condi class to an event not only is inefficient, but is actually hurting your server due to overflow and the fact that you’re taking a spot that another class that actually does damage could fill.
It’s particularly appalling given that Anet is well aware of their condition cap limitation, and yet refuses to take that into account when designing a new encounter.
It’s a pretty great slap in the face, eh?
Thought I had with a buddy of mine, who is a condition necro, if the current caps can’t be changed for “reasons.” Condition classes should be able to charge up a power bar, relative to the condition damage that would normally be inflicted. This charged ability can then be discharged for direct damage. Whether it’s just a utility skill, or something granted by a minor trait bonus etc, idk.
No that’s garbage in my opinion. We play condition Builds because we want that damage over time and no burst damage or any other mechanics.
They just have to use some kind of floating average for every player. So that there is only one number that ticks per player and condition. The problem is this works well if all conditions are equally long, but not if one is much times longer in duration (i.e Blood is Power)
E:
In every content a Condition Build is useless, when 2 of them hit the same monster, because every build I know get easily 15 Stacks of bleeding and some get even the 25 stacks by their own. And what is even worth every Power build gets minor traits that apply bleeds as well and therefore block more of our bleeds.
(edited by whyme.3281)
I agree that condition builds are useless against some things, but Necros…
…why don’t you just defend the turrets from Risen? Your marks would be very useful there.
I don’t get why everybody insists on wailing on Taco when there’s plenty of other roles to fill.
Necros are inadequate turret defenders as well. It takes a scepter necro 8 minutes to kill a single finger that pops up on the turrets since they to are immune to condition damage.
they’ve been useless for a year now. LOL who are you kidding? they’ve been made so that there’s a maximum stack so of course people are going to be cutoff from actually doing a well preserved DPS.
What we need is to remove the stack maximum, or make it so that each individual players condition damage output is taken into account. Also, they need to remove the tendency for condition damage from every class and make it occur only on two of the types of trait lines when started at grandmaster. Activate these conditions at the grandmaster level of the trait lines in every class that chooses either the condition damage bonus line or the condition duration bonus line that way burst damage builds will never use the condition damage types and rely solely on burst like they’ve focused their gear on, meanwhile those who use condition builds would be fewer and their conditions would actually be the primary conditions on enemies like bosses and the like from then on.
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Do you really expect to only use one build to the same effect no matter what content you are playing?
Wouldnt that be boring?
You should be happy that its so easy to change builds in this game.As long as you don’t want to do it to cope with the content right in your face, of course, since there’s no way to respec without going back to a city (or newbie area just outside the racial city gates).
There are Trait trainers on every map in WvW, which is accessible for free from anywhere in the world. Once youre done, log out to character select, log back in and you are right back where you were.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
How does ffxiv handle these problems or heck, most other games. Everyone gets their own DoT. Does the server lag? No it doesn’t, are there more players? Yes.
Do you really expect to only use one build to the same effect no matter what content you are playing?
Wouldnt that be boring?
You should be happy that its so easy to change builds in this game.I hope you aren’t serious. Change trait/utility isn’t change build. To change a build you need a whole set of armor+weapon+accessory. And ascended accessories/ring/etc are mostly time-gated.
I am serious because you dont need ascended gear to change your build, exotics will do. I have 6 different sets of armor and over 15 weapons. For trinkets, i usually use ascended celestial ones, so i dont have to change that much. That way, i dont spike in my build but its well enough for any content.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.