Guild Wars 2

My first character was a necromancer. I thought I was “the man” with condition damage. I would see the 150 dmg ticks and little 500-600 dmg crits with scepter and actually really truly BELIEVE that I was lowering mobs health in dungeons and doing decent damage lol…. when I think back to that day its amazing how innocent the denial was. You’re also utterly garbage against anything that you cannot apply a condition too which is a huge kitten .

I made a warrior after that a long time ago and… playing the highest DPS class in the game (gs – axe/mace zerk warrior) is just on another level lol. Your perception of the game completely changes. You start realizing that anyone running a condition build is basically dead weight and useless in groups.

Pretty soon after that you start feeling bad for even having a condition build in your character login screen. You start kicking people from dungeon groups that have condition builds. Hell, I resent any necro that joins the group and I PLAY one.. lol. Sometimes I think people are gonna kick me out midway through fractals/dungeons when I use my necromancer and I don’t blame them, because conditions are a freaking joke.

I see little 150 condition dmg ticks and you know I’m spreading them all around with epidemic and I’m getting 500-700 dmg crits with scepter and it’s like… lol pathetic.

I go on my warrior and do 42k with thousand blades within like 6 seconds or something. The axe hits for 3-4.5k damage. That’s just regular swings the 4th hit is like 7-8k, sometimes 9k dmg… you know how fast the axe attacks as well … ? Not to mention you can hit up to 3 mobs at same time. As well as give might/fury and banners to people, and you’re stacking vulnerability which is doing far more for the group than conditions are alone… lol. Condition builds… wow… you just don’t realize how utterly trash and useless they are until you experience a real DPS class first hand.

I’m bringing this up because of all the talk regarding conditions lately. Figured I’d give you some perspective from someone who actually plays a condition damage class AND a burst DPS class.

I’d really like my necromancer to be not utterly trash garbage someday which is the other reason I’m posting this, I mean if I woke up tomorrow and found that it was deleted I’d only even give a crap because I wouldn’t have another 80 to go farm orichalc and ancient wood on. Truth hurts, its sad.

To be fair, condition builds are strong in pvp but weak everywhere else.

I dream of the day when AI will start dodging so we can stop all these rant post that DPS is king in pvE

loseridoit.2756:

To be fair, condition builds are strong in pvp but weak everywhere else.

I dream of the day when AI will start dodging so we can stop all these rant post that DPS is king in pvE

its “ok” in pvp. I kill more people using ranged on my zerk warrior though. Lotta people roll condition removals in pvp so yeah… its actually not even that good there either lol… =/

It’s not “ok” in pvp, it is extremely good as proven by the current SPvP meta (and an increase in necromancers/engies in WvW)

You can make a power necro.

The only problem is, while your DPS is fairly solid, you don’t provide the same group utility a warrior can (might, fury, vulnerability, empower allies, banners).

colesy.8490:

You can make a power necro.

The only problem is, while your DPS is fairly solid, you don’t provide the same group utility a warrior can (might, fury, vulnerability, empower allies, banners).

you can make a power necro but utilities aside their basic attacks are still worse than a warriors.

If you focus your build on conditions (mostly necro, or stone scepter ele), you deal a less damage than zerkers. But at the same time you can do other stuff. You can kite the mobs, the conditions still tick. You can build toughness. Zerkers live of pow, prec, crtdmg, conditioneers only off of malice (and conduration, which can’t be on the same piece), so you can get other stats there. Those defensive stats will lower your D/S but increase survivability (well, toughness aggro …).

Some mobs are immune to some conditions. Main damage come from bleeding where I haven’t met immunity yet. Problems are buildings. You’ll miss like 85% of your damage here and it is noticable (had a bleed mesmer). My necro is a condition/ well/ siphon build, which still deals some damage on them, but well …

But when you have two conditioneers in your party, they’ll hurt each other. The cap just makes them a joke. Having a single one in the party isn’t wrong. Poison lowers healing and epidemic is wonderful in alot situations.

I also fell in the trap “oh, so many numbers, I must be dealing alot damage” once, but I’m still not completely going berserker.

TLDR;
Having a conditioneer in your party doesn’t hurt the party. Can be more usefull than a third warrior in alot cases. But having more than one is wasted.

Actually it does because conditions offer sustained damage and GW2 is all about burst.

loseridoit.2756:

To be fair, condition builds are strong in pvp but weak everywhere else.

I dream of the day when AI will start dodging so we can stop all these rant post that DPS is king in pvE

No, condition Necros, Mesmers, and Engineers are strong in PvP. Every other class is limited to 2-3 conditions, one or two of which actually deals damage, meaning one single condition removal mitigates 50-100% of their damage.

Conncept.7638:

loseridoit.2756:

To be fair, condition builds are strong in pvp but weak everywhere else.

I dream of the day when AI will start dodging so we can stop all these rant post that DPS is king in pvE

No, condition Necros, Mesmers, and Engineers are strong in PvP. Every other class is limited to 2-3 conditions, one or two of which actually deals damage, meaning one single condition removal mitigates 50-100% of their damage.

So you agree to disagree?

anyways, I am more interested in better mob AI and lower health + damage.
in pvE damage is king over class complexity. I want that to change

Mobs being able to dodge and move would really only solve part of the condition conundrum… that being overlapping conditions if you have multiple sources.

colesy.8490:

Actually it does because conditions offer sustained damage and GW2 is all about burst.

Actually it is about the fact that conditions don’t deal enough damage to mobs.

The DPS of a condition build is a lot smaller than the DPS of other builds and that’s the biggest part of the problem.

The other damage sources are working as intended, however condition damage is not working as the players intended, and the reason boils down to PvP balance.

MMOs need to seperate out how skills affect mobs and how skills affect players so that all skills will be viable in all areas of gameplay and developers won’t have to worry about how a change to the PvE side of the skill affects the PvP side.

Ellisande.5218:

colesy.8490:

Actually it does because conditions offer sustained damage and GW2 is all about burst.

Actually it is about the fact that conditions don’t deal enough damage to mobs.

The DPS of a condition build is a lot smaller than the DPS of other builds and that’s the biggest part of the problem.

The other damage sources are working as intended, however condition damage is not working as the players intended, and the reason boils down to PvP balance.

MMOs need to seperate out how skills affect mobs and how skills affect players so that all skills will be viable in all areas of gameplay and developers won’t have to worry about how a change to the PvE side of the skill affects the PvP side.

I agree and the problem is due to the lack of mitigating factors!

While Power can be mitigated by the use of toughness/armor, Conditions cannot. So they are good in sPvP and average to bad in PvE. It’s quite simple! They stack @ 25 and 2 condition sources are ridiculous together.

A party of 5 Berserker Crit.Damagers (ig: Warriors) → Destroy everything in it’s path.
A party of 5 Rabid/Carrion C.Damagers (ig: Necromancers) → Lame!

This mechanic needs a revamp asap!

Its not that bad when you factor in epidemic.

So you’re doing 150 dmg per tick, multiplied by 25 thats 3.75k use epidemic and you’re doing that 3.75k to potentially 5 critters for a total of 18.75k damage per second and at the same time, you’re free to dodge, fear, interrupt and heal and do other stuff while damage continues. With a warrior you have higher DPS, no doubt but as soon as you try to do something else dps stops entirely.

Its trading power with flexiblity.

I love my necro even though I know I could do more damage with a warrior. It all depends on your play style.

well rough damage isnt better, as a guardian who keep up protection buff 80%+ of the time, even zerker builds do 500dmg a hit 800 on crit but well toughness doesn´t help to mitigate condition, and if they guy using conditions have 40% inc food then yea they do alot more than the 500- 800 zerking guy.

how i see it conditions where spected to work for
a. PVP
b. single player grinding

but never spected to work for dungeons, lol 25 bleed cap? imagine having a party with 5 condition users, they would take years to complete a fractal

Ellisande.5218:

colesy.8490:

Actually it does because conditions offer sustained damage and GW2 is all about burst.

Actually it is about the fact that conditions don’t deal enough damage to mobs.

The DPS of a condition build is a lot smaller than the DPS of other builds and that’s the biggest part of the problem.

The other damage sources are working as intended, however condition damage is not working as the players intended, and the reason boils down to PvP balance.

MMOs need to seperate out how skills affect mobs and how skills affect players so that all skills will be viable in all areas of gameplay and developers won’t have to worry about how a change to the PvE side of the skill affects the PvP side.

There’s a Lupicus kill (1.5 million HP) with a pure condi-warrior which took like 6 1/2 minutes, which is on par with direct damage kills.

Like I said, you can’t burst with conditions the same way you can with direct damage, but their sustained damage is perfectly fine.

Yea…I was owned by a necro with a condition damage build last night. Condition damage rocks in PvP. Who cares about PvE DPS? You in a hurry or something? Killing monsters is killing monsters, slow, fast, who cares really?

Condition builds aren’t just about bleed stacking. Poison, fear, weakness, blindness, chill and confusion can turn the tide of many battles in WWW.

Conncept.7638:

loseridoit.2756:

To be fair, condition builds are strong in pvp but weak everywhere else.

I dream of the day when AI will start dodging so we can stop all these rant post that DPS is king in pvE

No, condition Necros, Mesmers, and Engineers are strong in PvP. Every other class is limited to 2-3 conditions, one or two of which actually deals damage, meaning one single condition removal mitigates 50-100% of their damage.

You forgot rangers. That’s half of the classes in this game having a strong PvP build that relies on conditions. Not exactly “a joke”, as OP puts it.

“Condition damage rocks in PvP. Who cares about PvE DPS?”

People who play PvE.

“You in a hurry or something? Killing monsters is killing monsters, slow, fast, who cares really?”

People who participate in fights with a hard time limit.

“There’s a Lupicus kill (1.5 million HP) with a pure condi-warrior which took like 6 1/2 minutes, which is on par with direct damage kills.”

The key word in that sentence is “a”.

A lot of incorrect information in this thread.

1. Condition damage builds deal comparable damage to direct damage builds not less and not more in any gameplay type. The OP may have a bad build or is not calculating his damage correctly. (of course it could be another condition character’s fault too. see point 4)
2. Condition builds are popular in sPvP because they are useful in sPvP not because they are Stronger against players, but because they are actually useful against players. (just like bunker and support builds are popular in sPvP while they are not in PvE because they are actually useful in PvP)
3. Burst has nothing to do with most PvE problems with condition builds, in fact burst is more of a PvP desire. The reason direct damage is preferred over condition is because it has no upper limit (Tossing timewarp on a direct damage party will increase their DPS exponentially, while a condition damage party still has to deal with caps, stacks, and time limits.) and the direct damage stat set has better synergy than the condition damage stat set.
4. Condition damage main problem is that if there are 2 condition users involved in the fight, they most often will negatively effect each others damage output. 4 direct damage + 1 condition user is usually fine. but add one more and they can become worthless very fast.
5. It matters that condition damage has this failing because the game is so DPS oriented. Success, can depend on speed and of course speed is its own reward. whether or not you are skipping cutscenes or skipping content in your dungeon, every fight lasting 2-4 times as long and having a compounded chance of failure just because you are not playing the only build/spec to beat it fast is a problem. It’s a problem that doesn’t even start or end with condition damage specs but any spec that isn’t “deal as much direct damage as you possibly can without dying.”
6. While fixing condition damage will not be enough to fix the above problem, It is another step in the right direction.

Condition damage is actually in a really good place right in solo and sPvP/WvW roaming, the PvP types are very similar to solo PvE in that you don’t have multiple teammates all fighting 1 target. But conditions don’t magically deal more damage to players, in fact most conditions are less effective on players than MOB enemies, and while every defense against being hit with a direct damage attack also works for conditions you can also remove them once they are applied. So against certain classes or players condition damage can be floored in sPvP making that part of the game far more diverse and better for it.

When I am putting vulnerability on a mob, all that increased damage that the other players are doing because of that vulnerability is actually my increased damage.

loseridoit.2756:

To be fair, condition builds are strong in pvp but weak everywhere else.

I dream of the day when AI will start dodging so we can stop all these rant post that DPS is king in pvE

The reason for this is the damage sponge design of mobs in general. They have more health than a vitality fat warrior.

And at the same time they produce damage spikes that can make a zerker green with envy. Thus making defensive builds borderline pointless.

eisberg.2379:

When I am putting vulnerability on a mob, all that increased damage that the other players are doing because of that vulnerability is actually my increased damage.

There are ~40 skills in the game that apply vulnerability, All of which do not require condition damage or a condition build to be used. Most of which are used with and in a direct damage build. Many of which are just attached to a spamable skill. And of course every class has at least one. So almost everyone of every spec can make that claim.

In other words that direct damage warrior is applying 2 stacks of vulnerability every GS auto attach chain. or 4 stacks every 6 seconds (depending on weapon) but also dealing more damage than you assuming there is another condition damage dealer there… If there is you would be better replaced by another direct damage dealer in almost every situation.

Lokki.1092:

A lot of incorrect information in this thread.

1. Condition damage builds deal comparable damage to direct damage builds not less and not more in any gameplay type. The OP may have a bad build or is not calculating his damage correctly. (of course it could be another condition character’s fault too. see point 4)

They do really good damage only on paper, compared to direct damage.
For example a high condition damage build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQJArNiAieAAAHD-jACBYhBkWAgqAMHqIas1gFRjVdDTHjIq2crIa1SBMp0I-e
gets about 3000 cond. dmg. with full might, sigil and food, while ignoring condition duration (you could use 40% buff food instead). You can get even more but then you lose crit chance (-> less bleeds).

for our conditions that means:
bleed = 193 * 25 = 4825
burn = 1083
confusion = 291
poison = 382
And attacks with a DPS of ~1k
Let’s say i can do 25 stacks bleed, 100% burning and poison, that means a DPS of 7290. Not bad, BUT AFAIK there is no class that is able to stack 25 bleeds and has a 100% uptime on poison and burn. One of the strongest i know is the warrior(didn’t play engi) with 100% burning and and average of 15-20 bleeds. Doing 4978-5943 DPS. But that is only achieved under best conditions and after a few seconds (after sacking conditions). And only if you are the only condition damage in town.

Lokki.1092:

1. Condition builds are popular in sPvP because they are useful in sPvP not because they are Stronger against players, but because they are actually useful against players. (just like bunker and support builds are popular in sPvP while they are not in PvE because they are actually useful in PvP)

Conditions are used in sPVP because they ignore Armor/toughness, so it is a good counter against those bunker builds. And additionally they can be used very effectively in bunker builds as well. That’s the only magic in PvP.

In PvE there is only less variation in toughness and additionally we have structures.

Lokki.1092:

1. Burst has nothing to do with most PvE problems with condition builds, in fact burst is more of a PvP desire. The reason direct damage is preferred over condition is because it has no upper limit (Tossing timewarp on a direct damage party will increase their DPS exponentially, while a condition damage party still has to deal with caps, stacks, and time limits.) and the direct damage stat set has better synergy than the condition damage stat set.

100% right.
Probably worth to mention that zerker is the only set, that has 3 offensive stats. And that in PvE there are still structures, that really suck as condition player.

Lokki.1092:

1. Condition damage main problem is that if there are 2 condition users involved in the fight, they most often will negatively effect each others damage output. 4 direct damage + 1 condition user is usually fine. but add one more and they can become worthless very fast.

100% right, that is the main problem we have and caused by the stack limit.
Additionally the direct damage Builds also add conditions what limit this stack pool as well.

Lokki.1092:

1. It matters that condition damage has this failing because the game is so DPS oriented. Success, can depend on speed and of course speed is its own reward. whether or not you are skipping cutscenes or skipping content in your dungeon, every fight lasting 2-4 times as long and having a compounded chance of failure just because you are not playing the only build/spec to beat it fast is a problem. It’s a problem that doesn’t even start or end with condition damage specs but any spec that isn’t “deal as much direct damage as you possibly can without dying.”

I would love to see a high toughness encounter, that needs condition damage, some one that needs control, … not only high damage. The new TA has interesting encounters, but those are still damage based

Lokki.1092:

1. While fixing condition damage will not be enough to fix the above problem, It is another step in the right direction.

Yes conditions need some major fixes in the current game design.

Lokki.1092:

Condition damage is actually in a really good place right in solo and sPvP/WvW roaming, the PvP types are very similar to solo PvE in that you don’t have multiple teammates all fighting 1 target. But conditions don’t magically deal more damage to players, in fact most conditions are less effective on players than MOB enemies, and while every defense against being hit with a direct damage attack also works for conditions you can also remove them once they are applied. So against certain classes or players condition damage can be floored in sPvP making that part of the game far more diverse and better for it.

The problem is the group PvE. And if they work here, solo PvE is no problem as well. But right now, we have a design problem of GW2 here (since beta).
I don’t see any problem in some classes are better in preventing contidion damage or dealing it. would be boring if all would be even

I feel the need to share the history…

I and others have posted on the condition cap issue for more than a year (you can review my posts if you want <g>).

A-Net has acknowledged it is an issue:
John Peters in October (2012): Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.
John Peters in February (2013): Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.

Original Posts:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/No-love-for-condition-builds/page/2#
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Comfirmed-Nothing-being-done-re-conditions/page/4

It is SO frustrating that this has not been addressed.

unleashed.8679:

Conditions are used in sPVP because they ignore Armor/toughness, so it is a good counter against those bunker builds. And additionally they can be used very effectively in bunker builds as well. That’s the only magic in PvP.

In PvE there is only less variation in toughness and additionally we have structures.

This is probably the most important thing the devs and players should take from sPvP

Bunker builds work because players do not have (many) one shot mechanics, Players deal less spike damage than mobs and therefore a person can build to survive and it is very very effective. Also control effects actually work on players!

Support builds then have a use, because there are players than are tanky enough to survive while you boost, buff, and heal them. Not only that, but with control effects working on players, the bunker can effectively peel targets off their supporters. (supporters generally have pretty good DPS too but very little in the way of defense)

Because of Bunkers are so effective especially if they have a support with them, Condition damage becomes more effective against them. Often called “Bunker busters.” And so condition heavy DPS is very useful almost mandatory if there is a bunker on the other team.

Lastly someone is needed to kill Supporters and Bunker busters fast, to effectively remove the opponents ability to support their own bunkers and to kill your bunkers. These Guys are direct damage burst builds but go down just as fast. But a backstab, kill shot or any other burst skill at the right time on the right target can win a group battle

This IMHO is the best part about sPvP. the team builds are varied generally 1-3 bunkers, 1-2 support, and 1-2 condition/direct damage builds. Almost no spec is needed, No class is mandatory, but everyone has a role and multiple builds are good. This is what we need in PvE. The problem (as you seem to know) is that in PvE there is no need for a bunker so there is no need for support, there is also no need for a condition spec beyond the need for damage. So if the condition spec cannot deal the damage then GTFO. Which is sad.

What you say sounds like what Anet wanted dungeons to be. No matter what group you are you are competitive.

I think the problem, why bunkers and control doesn’t work in PvE is, that the mobs do only hit you every 3-5 seconds, and that as you said with too strong attacks, whereas player hit you once every second or even faster with daggers or multiple skills at once (i.e. Necros Wells). In PvE i can run around with full offensive stats, because most things can be dodged, because of those slow attacks. In PvP we need defense, because we definitely get some hits from the enemy. Best example PvP-berseker with Vita stat whereas in PvE we don’t need this defense at all (theoretically).

And one more problem is how we have access to support and control mechanics.
We can change skills just with one click and with this change our role.
I think this is not bad for itself but in combination, that we don’t need defense every full damage build can use all his utilities to do this job as well, while not loosing any/much damage output.
Additionally we have relatively good support hidden in autoattacks or minor traits, that is there without doing anything for it.
E: One big concern I have with support in GW2 is, that you don’t get any reward for doing so. your boons are not stronger, boon duration isn’t needed, because we can access them relatively easy, …

And the biggest problem for control in PvE is defiant. I think for trashmobs, we don’t need any/much control to beat them, but for bosses this would be nice. Bad think every boss in this game has at least 10 stacks of defiant, so controlling him in a group of 5 means every one has to wast 2 Control skills, just to interrupt him once. Sounds like a bad deal.
Why not remove defiant completely and do something reverse. If you interrupt the enemy too often, he enrages (i.e. gets stability and might for a few seconds) making control a bit of challenge and tactical element.

< Ranger Spvp. i make 24 bleed in 5sec. but, i dont play my ranger in pve.

in pve i use warrior full DPS, like other player…

Condition domage is useless in pve.

I don’t know about dungeons , but I freaking own in WvW in full rabid gear on my Necro. Nothing more satisfying than watching a Warrior or Thief trying to run away from a fight bleeding to death.

Shelledfade.6435:

I made a warrior

lol

Seriously….

There’s a class that needs some changes…

Nyquest.1583:

I don’t know about dungeons , but I freaking own in WvW in full rabid gear on my Necro. Nothing more satisfying than watching a Warrior or Thief trying to run away from a fight bleeding to death.

PvP meta is vastly different from PvE meta as the gameplay and opponents are that different.
Incomparable.

Ulari.9547:

I feel the need to share the history…

I and others have posted on the condition cap issue for more than a year (you can review my posts if you want <g>).

A-Net has acknowledged it is an issue:
John Peters in October (2012): Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.
John Peters in February (2013): Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.

Original Posts:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/No-love-for-condition-builds/page/2#
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Comfirmed-Nothing-being-done-re-conditions/page/4

It is SO frustrating that this has not been addressed.

John Peters in December (2014): Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.
trollface
just a bunch of tards and liars…all of them

Lokki.1092:

unleashed.8679:

Conditions are used in sPVP because they ignore Armor/toughness, so it is a good counter against those bunker builds. And additionally they can be used very effectively in bunker builds as well. That’s the only magic in PvP.

In PvE there is only less variation in toughness and additionally we have structures.

This is probably the most important thing the devs and players should take from sPvP

Bunker builds work because players do not have (many) one shot mechanics, Players deal less spike damage than mobs and therefore a person can build to survive and it is very very effective. Also control effects actually work on players!

Support builds then have a use, because there are players than are tanky enough to survive while you boost, buff, and heal them. Not only that, but with control effects working on players, the bunker can effectively peel targets off their supporters. (supporters generally have pretty good DPS too but very little in the way of defense)

Because of Bunkers are so effective especially if they have a support with them, Condition damage becomes more effective against them. Often called “Bunker busters.” And so condition heavy DPS is very useful almost mandatory if there is a bunker on the other team.

Lastly someone is needed to kill Supporters and Bunker busters fast, to effectively remove the opponents ability to support their own bunkers and to kill your bunkers. These Guys are direct damage burst builds but go down just as fast. But a backstab, kill shot or any other burst skill at the right time on the right target can win a group battle

This IMHO is the best part about sPvP. the team builds are varied generally 1-3 bunkers, 1-2 support, and 1-2 condition/direct damage builds. Almost no spec is needed, No class is mandatory, but everyone has a role and multiple builds are good. This is what we need in PvE. The problem (as you seem to know) is that in PvE there is no need for a bunker so there is no need for support, there is also no need for a condition spec beyond the need for damage. So if the condition spec cannot deal the damage then GTFO. Which is sad.

Glad to see others dialing in on this.

DanH.5879:

Ulari.9547:

I feel the need to share the history…

I and others have posted on the condition cap issue for more than a year (you can review my posts if you want <g>).

A-Net has acknowledged it is an issue:
John Peters in October (2012): Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.
John Peters in February (2013): Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.

Original Posts:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/No-love-for-condition-builds/page/2#
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Comfirmed-Nothing-being-done-re-conditions/page/4

It is SO frustrating that this has not been addressed.

John Peters in December (2014): Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.
trollface
just a bunch of tards and liars…all of them

Just looking, no touching

Nretep.2564:

TLDR;
Having a conditioneer in your party doesn’t hurt the party. Can be more usefull than a third warrior in alot cases. But having more than one is wasted.

lol, you couldn’t be more wrong. In PVE having a condition class does hurt the party and is never more useful than having a 3rd warrior.

Kilandros.2098:

Nretep.2564:

TLDR;
Having a conditioneer in your party doesn’t hurt the party. Can be more usefull than a third warrior in alot cases. But having more than one is wasted.

lol, you couldn’t be more wrong. In PVE having a condition class does hurt the party and is never more useful than having a 3rd warrior.

Not a full soldier warrior

Afya.5842:

Kilandros.2098:

Nretep.2564:

TLDR;
Having a conditioneer in your party doesn’t hurt the party. Can be more usefull than a third warrior in alot cases. But having more than one is wasted.

lol, you couldn’t be more wrong. In PVE having a condition class does hurt the party and is never more useful than having a 3rd warrior.

Not a full soldier warrior

Are we talking about fantasy land now? What warriors use full soldier gear for PvE content? But I’ll tell you what, I’d still take a full soldier warrior over a condition necro.

Lokki.1092:

This IMHO is the best part about sPvP. the team builds are varied generally 1-3 bunkers, 1-2 support, and 1-2 condition/direct damage builds. Almost no spec is needed, No class is mandatory, but everyone has a role and multiple builds are good. This is what we need in PvE. The problem (as you seem to know) is that in PvE there is no need for a bunker so there is no need for support, there is also no need for a condition spec beyond the need for damage. So if the condition spec cannot deal the damage then GTFO. Which is sad.

Thats right, the problem here is the poor enemy/boss design. Why is there no boss, with high toughness and low health? So for example a berserker player would hit for 400 instead of 4k and conditions would be more effective.

No, the strong bosses are designed as structures, that cant bleed…

Here is a good list of boss suggestions, that would add a diversity to PvE fights.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Endgame-PvE-Difficulty-comes-down-to-dodging/first

But for more buildvariaty in PvE there are more problems than the stack-limit on conditions.

Conditionbuilds:

• A Remove of the stack-limits is needed, to make them viable.
• Make all these 10% more damage traits also effect condition damage, it makes no sence, why conditions dont get a benefit, if I manage to stay over 90% life for example.
• optinally a offensive stat combination like berserker with condidmg, precision and condi-duration would be nice.

Support:

• Boonduration stat is useless until every skill has a ~50% uptime on the boons it provides, a reduction in boon duration is needed to make supports or atleast the stat viable
• A stat that increases the strength of boons, for example might giving 20-40 power with a boonpower stat (or maybe use boonduration for it).
  Right now, why should i take someone who could give me 30 stacks might but cant deal damage when i can get a warrior, that can provide 15 in full berserker gear and deals a lot more damage?

Tank/Control:

• A Tank could be fine in PvE if we couldnt dodge every signle attack of the bosses in full damage gear.
  _ I know this is part of the combat system and I like it, but why dont bosses attack faster with smaller hits? _
• For Control defiant needs to bee removed and like unl34shed said other mechanics need to be implemented to prevent a stunlock (rage mode)
• I wouldnt touch unshakeable and some imunes because bosses are stronger

And for all those skeptics, this changes wouldnt mean that dungeons cant be done with a group of full berserker warriors, but it would make it more chalanging for those groups but they would be still faster than a nonberserker group (except there is a high toughness low hp boss).

Condition damage isnt completely terrible in pve. It just has too many problems and takes too much time to build up to respectable damage. If condition damage scaling is buffed in pve, I could definately see rampager necros becoming a solid pick for organised groups in some dungeons.

spoj.9672:

Condition damage isnt completely terrible in pve. It just has too many problems and takes too much time to build up to respectable damage. If condition damage scaling is buffed in pve, I could definately see rampager necros becoming a solid pick for organised groups in some dungeons.

The main enemy of conditions right now is the stack limit. Bringing more than one into a dungeon is useless, because they fight each other for the stacks. That has to be changed first before thinking of make conditions a solid pick.

The stacking speed isn’t that slow and shouldn’t make a problem.

Damage could be a bit higher or effected by some + x% damage traits and runes.

Sad, that no one is interested in fixing condition damage