Guild Wars 2

So I have being playing gw2 since early beta but always been a social player with this game since it had so many disappointment issue with its game play when it came out so I never bother doing much testing of my own or discover how the game works I just read what ever ppl posted and believed it to be true

One of this things I always though to be true was how condition damage works and ppl seem to have the understanding that condition damage sucks b/c it over laps with other ppl condition damage.

So I believed it and never bother making a condition build even when I always wanted too, but after the year pass I always wonder if condition doesn’t work and is as bad as ppl say how come anet hasn’t mention or done any changes to it and this made me wonder about how condition really works and So I decided to do some testing of my own and that’s when I discover the true.

Condition damage doesn’t over lap with other player!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yes that is right every player condition damage tick base on the player condition stats.

For example I discover that bleed’s works the same way as Vulnerability.
Vulnerability is a condition that stack and for every Vulnerability you get 1% damage increase for every physical damage you deal for a total of 25 stack effect. Well bleed has the same effect for every bleed stack your bleed damage will be increase base on your condition damage.

I did this test by using my lvl 80 THF having a total of 1.2k condition damage and my friend lvl 80 necro with 1.5k condition . After stacking 25 of bleed I was doing 3k bleed damage a sec on bleed effect but my friend necros was doing 4k bleed every sec on his screen and this was attacking the same mob at the same time.. This prove that each player deal his own condition damage to a mob

Also did some other testing with other condition like fire and posion, after applying them my poison damage was 500 a tick and fire was doing 700 a tick, mean while my friend necro was doing 700 poison damage and over 900 with fire on the same mob.

We decided to run dungeon as a group with my guild me thf condition necro condition rng condition and guardian and warrior. first dungeon was COF and we down it under 6 min

Then we ran fractal lvl 33 and every boss was being kill under 1min, condition damage was just eating thru mobs hp in sec . I was doing over 4k bleed damage a sec, over 1k with poison and another 1k with fire and this is not including my dagger auto attack that where doing 1k that’s over 7k damage a sec.

I can believe how badly condition damage was miss understood all this years and how powerful it is

but… but… berserker build.

Condition builds run rampant in WvW and sPvP. If you stroll outside of the general PvE meta, you’ll see that there are many many builds out there that are viable.

Reverence.6915:

but… but… berserker build.

Condition builds run rampant in WvW and sPvP. If you stroll outside of the general PvE meta, you’ll see that there are many many builds out there that are viable.

Not saying that condition build is better the berserk build but I believe that condition build can keep up with a berserker build.

the thing about condition build is that it works better with other condition build class which is ironic b/c every 1 things that is the other way around but if you can keep up 25 stack of bleed your bleed will do so much damage but is not easy to keep 25 stack alone and that’s the reason 2 condition classes are 1 heck of a team

Drakent.9605:

For example I discover that bleed’s works the same way as Vulnerability.
Vulnerability is a condition that stack and for every Vulnerability you get 1% damage increase for every physical damage you deal for a total of 25 stack effect. Well bleed has the same effect for every bleed stack your bleed damage will be increase base on your condition damage.

I did this test by using my lvl 80 THF having a total of 1.2k condition damage and my friend lvl 80 necro with 1.5k condition . After stacking 25 of bleed I was doing 3k bleed damage a sec on bleed effect but my friend necros was doing 4k bleed every sec on his screen and this was attacking the same mob at the same time.. This prove that each player deal his own condition damage to a mob

Also did some other testing with other condition like fire and posion, after applying them my poison damage was 500 a tick and fire was doing 700 a tick, mean while my friend necro was doing 700 poison damage and over 900 with fire on the same mob.

We decided to run dungeon as a group with my guild me thf condition necro condition rng condition and guardian and warrior. first dungeon was COF and we down it under 6 min

Then we ran fractal lvl 33 and every boss was being kill under 1min, condition damage was just eating thru mobs hp in sec . I was doing over 4k bleed damage a sec, over 1k with poison and another 1k with fire and this is not including my dagger auto attack that where doing 1k that’s over 7k damage a sec.

I can believe how badly condition damage was miss understood all this years and how powerful it is

So you’re saying that If you put poison on lasting 10 seconds, and at the same time your friend put on poison lasting the same amount of time, you would BOTH get poison damage ticks?

Just to be clear, because that’s not what I see in dungeons. It would be very nice if they changed/fixed it and nobody really noticed.

When I’m fighting a boss, and I see 25 stacks of bleed, I know for a fact that I did not apply those 25 stacks. Is this in line with what you are stating, Drak?

Drakent.9605:

Also did some other testing with other condition like fire and posion, after applying them my poison damage was 500 a tick and fire was doing 700 a tick, mean while my friend necro was doing 700 poison damage and over 900 with fire on the same mob.
….

Then we ran fractal lvl 33 and every boss was being kill under 1min, condition damage was just eating thru mobs hp in sec . I was doing over 4k bleed damage a sec, over 1k with poison and another 1k with fire and this is not including my dagger auto attack that where doing 1k that’s over 7k damage a sec.

1. Unless I’m mistaken, the damage formula for poison is: 84 + (0.1 * Condition Damage) per second at Level 80.
That means a 500 dmg poison tick is only possible with 4160 condition damage. With that your burning should’ve ticked with 1368 dps.
And then 700 or even 1k poison ticks?? I really doubt you had more than 9k condition damage. Btw if I were to assume that it isn’t impossible to have that amount of stats, 25 stacks of bleed would’ve done more than 12k dps instead of only 4k.

2. What you are reporting is just not what I (and I’m sure many others as well) are experiencing everyday. Some screenshots or a video would help your claim, but for now I just don’t believe you.

3. Every fractal boss in less than one minute? Again… pics or it didn’t happen.

4. The amount of damage you describe (total of 7k with poison, bleeding, burning and some direct damage) can hardly be maintained permanently.
Burning has a cooldown and bleeding+poison will drop if you switch to dagger.
Power builds on the other hand can easily put out 7k dps constantly, and spike even higher than that

Drakent.9605:

For example I discover that bleed’s works the same way as Vulnerability.
Vulnerability is a condition that stack and for every Vulnerability you get 1% damage increase for every physical damage you deal for a total of 25 stack effect. Well bleed has the same effect for every bleed stack your bleed damage will be increase base on your condition damage.

Few questions:
1) why have devs never pointed this out or clarified it?
2) why are your numbers so incredibly off? 1.2k condi damage would do 2575 damage per second for 25 stacks of bleed; 1.5k would do 2950 per second. Please post screencaps to verify your claims.

Sounds like you stacked part of the bleeds and your friend stacked the rest. As far of the rest, it would really help if everyone could see some actual proof other than seemingly wild claims.

And again, it is against forum policies to go around creating threads in subforums to link to this thread here.

So.. did you stack more than 25 bleeds? nope

Please stop spreading misinformation. Pretty much everything you have stated in this thread is 100% false.

Every Mob has a limit of 25 bleed stacks, 1 burning stack, 1 poison stack, 25 vuln stacks, 25 torment stacks, 1 immobilize, and 1 weakness.

For intensity stacking condition: If ANY player attempts to add on top of that 25 stacks their condition is ignored. It is first come first serve. When one stack falls off the next one applied is added. If you are blessed enough to have one of your stacks on a boss then it will use your personal conditino stats.

For duration stacking conditions they each have a time or number of applications limit. your condition will queue up until the limit is hit and then it is ignored. If you apply 20 seconds of bleed and then someone else applies 8 seconds of bleeding it will tick for your condition damage for the first 20 seconds and then the other persons for the next 8 seconds using their stats.

If anyone tells you anything other than what I have stated above then they are lying to you.

Iretha.7625:

Drakent.9605:

So you’re saying that If you put poison on lasting 10 seconds, and at the same time your friend put on poison lasting the same amount of time, you would BOTH get poison damage ticks?

Just to be clear, because that’s not what I see in dungeons. It would be very nice if they changed/fixed it and nobody really noticed.

What i am saying if you do any attack with poison your damage that will show on the screen will be different from any other person base on your condition damage

go to the mist, bring your friend.
one go cond build one go power build.
start fraps, both of you, hit record.

apply poison on a dummy
show us the result for your claim.

Soon.5240:

When I’m fighting a boss, and I see 25 stacks of bleed, I know for a fact that I did not apply those 25 stacks. Is this in line with what you are stating, Drak?

As I say before bleed stack works the very same way as Vulnerability when ever you land a hit with a physical attack your damage will be base on the amount Vulnerability that had been stack .Bleed works the same way, ever you land a bleed damage attack the damage will be base on the amount of stack and your condition damage

Drakent.9605:

Iretha.7625:

Drakent.9605:

So you’re saying that If you put poison on lasting 10 seconds, and at the same time your friend put on poison lasting the same amount of time, you would BOTH get poison damage ticks?

Just to be clear, because that’s not what I see in dungeons. It would be very nice if they changed/fixed it and nobody really noticed.

What i am saying if you do any attack with poison your damage that will show on the screen will be different from any other person base on your condition damage

If I attack with poison and my friend, who has more condition damage, applies poison at the same time as I do. My poison will not tick, and I will do no poison damage. My friend, on the other hand, will do poison damage. We BOTH won’t be doing poison damage at the same time, that’s just….not how it works.

anabasis.7346:

Drakent.9605:

For example I discover that bleed’s works the same way as Vulnerability.

I did this test by using my lvl 80 THF having a total of 1.2k condition damage and my friend lvl 80 necro with 1.5k condition . After stacking 25 of bleed I was doing 3k bleed damage a sec on bleed effect but my friend necros was doing 4k bleed every sec on his screen and this was attacking the same mob at the same time.. This prove that each player deal his own condition damage to a mob

I can believe how badly condition damage was miss understood all this years and how powerful it is

You’ve posted this on many subforums without any proof that supports your statements apart from what your friend said.

Devs have already stated that condition damage is capped at 25 stacks due to server performance issues and bandwith costs. Therefore, you are either mistaken or lying.

http://dulfy.net/2013/02/25/gw2-arenanet-looking-into-condition-caps/

First of all this sound like something from a year ago so a lot has change and second don’t read between the line all the dev say is that instead of giving every 1 a individual number for there condition effect they added 1 icon of each condition, this does not mean that each condition damage Is being over lap with the highest condition damage

And this makes a lot of sense, can you imaging having 40 ppl on open world with bleed effect on 1 mob it will freaking lag like hell, make a lot of sense to have 1 bleed icon on a mob

Iretha.7625:

Drakent.9605:

Iretha.7625:

Drakent.9605:

So you’re saying that If you put poison on lasting 10 seconds, and at the same time your friend put on poison lasting the same amount of time, you would BOTH get poison damage ticks?

Just to be clear, because that’s not what I see in dungeons. It would be very nice if they changed/fixed it and nobody really noticed.

What i am saying if you do any attack with poison your damage that will show on the screen will be different from any other person base on your condition damage

If I attack with poison and my friend, who has more condition damage, applies poison at the same time as I do. My poison will not tick, and I will do no poison damage. My friend, on the other hand, will do poison damage. We BOTH won’t be doing poison damage at the same time, that’s just….not how it works.

that is incorrect as I say before me as thf and my friend has a necro where showing 2 different condition damage at the same time, his # was much higher then mine mean while I had my on tick of damage showing on my screen with a lower damage #

Now I can not see his # on his screen so after I watch carefully what my damage was showing at my screen I ask his and they where different from mine and my tick was every sec and so was his

For does who are asking for pic or video I have a much better idea , you try this your self make a condition build take a friend and compare your condition damage

Drakent.9605:

For does who are asking for pic or video I have a much better idea , you try this your self make a condition build take a friend and compare your condition damage

I do have a condition necro, my damage numbers aren’t as high as the ridiculous ones you show in your OP. I’ve tested it with another necro and he put poison on first, (using signet of spite)at level 74, and I as a necro at level 80 with exotics/ascended. His poison ticked, but mine did not. You’re sorely mistaken.

Drakent.9605:

Soon.5240:

When I’m fighting a boss, and I see 25 stacks of bleed, I know for a fact that I did not apply those 25 stacks. Is this in line with what you are stating, Drak?

As I say before bleed stack works the very same way as Vulnerability when ever you land a hit with a physical attack your damage will be base on the amount Vulnerability that had been stack .Bleed works the same way, ever you land a bleed damage attack the damage will be base on the amount of stack and your condition damage

I dont think you acctually understand what you are trying to say =P
No bleed works in no way in the way a vurn does.
Vurn is +1% dmg per stack up to a maximum of 25, ie 25% incressed dmg done, for everyone Not just the one who did it.

So if you have a mob with 25stacks vurnability on them;
Player A normaly does 100dmg now he does 125.
Player B normaly does 50dmg now he does 62.5

Bleed works like this.
Player A with 2000 cond dmg does 100 plus 42.5 dmg per stack of bleed ie 142,5/per sec.
Player B with 1000 cond dmg does 50 plus 42,5 per stack of bleed ie 92,5/per sec.

If player A applies 10 stacks of bleeds it does 1425 dmg a sec
If player B applies 10 stacks of bleeds it does 925 dmg per sec

If player C comes in with a whoooping 5000 condition dmg and tries to apply 10 stacks of bleed he can not, he can only apply 5 stacks of bleed due to the condioton cap of 25.
So instead of Player C doing his 2925/dps he will only do 1462,5/dps.

You must be thinking about the direct damage from the attack that applies a poison condition.

Drakent.9605:

For does who are asking for pic or video I have a much better idea , you try this your self make a condition build take a friend and compare your condition damage

You say this like non of us have been paying attention while playing the game up until now.
Are you really saying that a boss that is permanently loaded with 25 stacks of bleeding will tick for that amount for every single player that inflicts a single stack with their condition damage?
That claim simply goes against everything I and many others experience all the time in game. You have the burden of proof here.

I just ran another test using dummies in pvp. 10 stack bleed was doing 300 a tick my friend bleed with the 10 stack was doing 170

My poison was doing 108 a sec his was doing 84 a sec at the same time

Drakent.9605:

I just ran another test using dummies in pvp. 10 stack bleed was doing 300 a tick my friend bleed with the 10 stack was doing 170

My poison was doing 108 a sec his was doing 84 a sec at the same time

Aks people to apply 25 stacks of bleed. THEN add yours. See the results and come back.
Yes, until 25 stacks are reached, conditions are additive. What we’re talking about is the situation in a bigger groups, where there’s no “free stack slots” for your conditions anymore.

if you together stacked 10bleeds equally with the same condition dmg as in your topic that would not be the case.

If you put on 5 stacks of bleed each, then you would have 250 in condition dmg and your friend -170 cond dmg.

Or do you mean you did 5×300/sec ie 1500/dps?
That would mean that you had a condition dmg of 5150! what runes and amulet had you put on?

Drakent.9605:

My poison was doing 108 a sec his was doing 84 a sec at the same time

The only way your poison and his poison could tick for damage at the same time would be if you were using different training dummies.

I’m not sure what your goal is, trying to spread misinformation like this. You’re either lieing on purpose for some sort of goal, or heavilly mistaken about how conditions work. It takes like, five seconds to test and secure that you’re wrong, are you sure you’re ACTUALLY testing and not just.. you know… pretending that you are?

Damage formulas from Wiki
But I believe that the formulas is not quite right. Nobody knows the right ones, except devs. Based on my tests, I can say that Power stat & coefficient of some skills has an effect on damage too.

Excuse me, what‘s your name?
Miss Understood, and yours, my good sir?

Djinn.5926:

Damage formulas from Wiki
But I believe that the formulas is not quite right. Nobody knows the right ones, except devs. Based on my tests, I can say that Power stat & coefficient of some skills has an effect on damage too.

Power does not affect conditions damage.
Power do affect the direct dmg part of a skill.

exampel the necro auto attack,
Damage: 118 <—— Direct dmg, power stat
Bleeding: 5 s <—— Condition dmg stat
Range: 900

Damage: 118 <—— Direct dmg, power stat
Bleeding: 5 s <—— Condition dmg stat
Range: 900

Damage: 168 <—— Direct dmg, power stat
Poison: 4 s <—— condition dmg
Range: 900

The chain takes 3 sec leaving you having 2 stacks of bleed with 2 sec left on the first stack, and 4 sec poison.
You add 2 bleedstacks more and 1 sec poison extra for every AA chain you do.

Both are however affected by vulnerability and might, so they can do a whooping 50% more dmg than what you are used to.

Zorion.7504:

If player C comes in with a whoooping 5000 condition dmg and tries to apply 10 stacks of bleed he can not, he can only apply 5 stacks of bleed due to the condioton cap of 25.
So instead of Player C doing his 2925/dps he will only do 1462,5/dps.

Are you certain that at 25 stacks you have to wait for the earliest stacks to end before any further are applied.. or does it push the earliest stacks out to make room for the new?

…and for the record Drakent, it doesn’t show simultaneous condition damage ticks for the single stack conditions. I routinely use condition damage specs with burning and sometimes I have to wait for someone’s earlier application of burning to end before I see damage ticks from my own. I’m confident it works as described in an earlier post, basically poison/burning will stack in duration and cap off once a limit is reached. Think of it like a queue.

mooty.4560:

Zorion.7504:

If player C comes in with a whoooping 5000 condition dmg and tries to apply 10 stacks of bleed he can not, he can only apply 5 stacks of bleed due to the condioton cap of 25.
So instead of Player C doing his 2925/dps he will only do 1462,5/dps.

Are you certain that at 25 stacks you have to wait for the earliest stacks to end before any further are applied.. or does it push the earliest stacks out to make room for the new?

Im not 100% if it replace or is locked.
But going on empirical evidence from big bosses and such, Ive notice that the Bleed cap never stays perma 25stacks it flickers from 23-25ish.
And if New stacks should overwrite old ones odds are that the bleed cap would be perma 25 on big bosses due to players constantly aplying new ones.
But IF an old one needs to end first, then the odds are that there will be moments when the cap will drop belove 25 for a short moment.

Its fast to test, Ill try tonight if someone else isnt faster.
Take 3 con specced players that can aply 25stacks of bleed and 3 power specced players that can aply 25stacks of bleed.

Start with the cond players to aply 25stacks on a dummy, and have it at a constant.
Then have the 3 power ones aply their stacks.

Iretha.7625:

Drakent.9605:

My poison was doing 108 a sec his was doing 84 a sec at the same time

The only way your poison and his poison could tick for damage at the same time would be if you were using different training dummies.

I’m not sure what your goal is, trying to spread misinformation like this. You’re either lieing on purpose for some sort of goal, or heavilly mistaken about how conditions work. It takes like, five seconds to test and secure that you’re wrong, are you sure you’re ACTUALLY testing and not just.. you know… pretending that you are?

Haven’t tested myself but the claim begs me to ask whether or not training dummies act as mobs/players in the open world/pvp do? Perhaps everyone and their mother can apply effects to them and count individually per character instead of like mobs/players in the open world/pvp do.

So, either he is fibbing, or telling the truth because training dummies are for personal testing or he is experiencing a latency issue where his friend placed a poison, then he placed a poison. The duration went up and ticked for his friend and then for him but because of latency he saw them both at the same time.

Wiki says that poison can stack 9times for duration, but since duration is rather short for many skills that apply it..maybe he doesn’t understand what he is seeing.

One stack of poison is shown. I hit character with a poison, my duration is added and takes over once the initial falls off. We may never see it fall off, I think that’s correct.

imho OP has enabled the ‘new’ condition combat floaters and his condis are adding up.

nothing else.

Zorion.7504:

And if New stacks should overwrite old ones odds are that the bleed cap would be perma 25 on big bosses due to players constantly aplying new ones.
But IF an old one needs to end first, then the odds are that there will be moments when the cap will drop belove 25 for a short moment.

Part of the trouble with condition damage in any team setting is the many bleed crit procs. They have a short base duration(3 secs or so), are usually minor traits which players can’t avoid spec’ing if they have to invest in a specific trait line and often the player has little condition damage. So in either case, you will have short duration bleeds that quickly fall out of the stack.

If the stack is constantly pushing out the earliest bleed stacks then it’s possible long duration bleeds are replaced with short ones and thus the stack most definitely will fluctuate.

If the stack is retaining each bleed stack until space is made for a new one, you will likely have some of those ~3 sec bleeds mixed in and as they end there’s a strong possibility they will be replaced with more of the same and thus the stack will fluctuate.

It’s definitely worth looking at and I would be curious to see what you find.

Zorion.7504:

Power does not affect conditions damage.
exampel the necro auto attack…
removed

I meant about a bit different thing, not about stacking or duration, but about direct condi damage formula. And if Power not affect on condi damage, why I have a little bit more that damage from 1 or 10 stacks, whatever, of bleeding if I have increased power by 500 for example?

Both are however affected by vulnerability and might…

Yes, it affected by Might, but not affected by vulnerability or any +% dmg nourishments, like Slayer Potions.

Mooty described the fluctuation in bleed stacks perfectly. The oldest bleed stacks are always replaced by new ones. Mixed in that full stack of 25 bleeds are MANY very short duration bleeds (ie. 2-4 secs) that will time out very quickly before a couple more hit to raise bleeds back up to the 25 stack limit. This number can fluctuate quite a bit once the maximum has been reached to to many skills that inflict multiple, short duration stacks of bleeds. For instance, some engis and necros lay down a bunch of long duration bleeds and hit the cap then along comes a warrior that launches Flurry. Instantly EIGHT of the USEFUL bleeds that the engis and necros have provided are pushed of the list (first in first out) for the warriors 8 stacks of two second bleeds! This is the most terrible part about this mechanic as 8 stacks of 2 sec bleeds with no condi damage just replaced 8 stacks of 8-16 sec bleeds that were probably applied by someone with 1500 or more condition damage. See the problem here. Nobody can mitigate your DIRECT damage (except those silly Ranger using PBS and those pesky GS mesmers using their aoe knockbacks on cooldown I mean figure it out already guys! I digress…) BUT almost every class can ‘accidentily’ destroy your condition damage. It’s really a terrible mechanic in that reguard as condition damage fluctuates wildy b/c of said mechanic. I am fine with the condition cap b/c 235 stacks of bleed on a boss seems kinda silly and would take a ton of server communication but I would really like to seem them but a set of priority parameters into the condition system so we could get ‘more bang for our buck’ for lack of better words, and those GEARED for condition damage could not have their productivity completely nullified by a bunch of zerkers stacking 2-3 sec condditions that tick for virtually nothing.

Djinn.5926:

Zorion.7504:

Power does not affect conditions damage.
exampel the necro auto attack…
removed

I meant about a bit different thing, not about stacking or duration, but about direct condi damage formula. And if Power not affect on condi damage, why I have a little bit more that damage from 1 or 10 stacks, whatever, of bleeding if I have increased power by 500 for example?

Both are however affected by vulnerability and might…

Yes, it affected by Might, but not affected by vulnerability or any +% dmg nourishments, like Slayer Potions.

There is no “direct condition dmg”
No condition do any “Direct dmg”
They do damage over time, with each calculation being based on whole seconds.
Conditions can then be added as “stacks” or “duration” just like boons.

Stacks ticks each second, 1 stack tick 1 time, 5 stacks ticks 5 times that second, nothing more.
The formula is known and very very easy to test/understand. Power has nothing to do with condition dmg at all.

you take your condition damage and then you know how much each tick is gonna be.
then is just the simple fact of see how many stacks you put on to know how many ticks you will have every second.

The “direct” dmg you see when applying a condition is probably from that skills “direct dmg” part, almost every condition skill has a “direct dmg” part that is done when you hit your target.
This “direct dmg” number will always vary a bit due to weapon power number being a random number between intervals, and maybe you just notice them when you see them being higher.

The “direct dmg” formula is abit tougher to calculate because of the random numbers from the weapon used, and the fact that the targets armor affects it as well, condition dmg ignore armor completely.

@ Drakent, you post have 2 flaws.

1) You bring numbers without backing them. I guess you are saying the truth, but your methodology is bad. You’r number vary so much because you let too many variable enter the equation. Might, food, buid, etc will make these number vary and so people will tend to see these numbers as false.
2) You don’t bring new information. You simply miss the debates we had at the beginning of the game so you start it all over. A long time ago we figure out the condition damage. The end result is that direct damage is better, so all the next wave of player take that and said direct damage is better so condition suck. See the difference. Direct damage is better, but condition don’t suck.

Everybody already know that each person give some condition and these condition are base on your condition damage. But, condition have a cap. A condition damage player will do as much damage as a direct damage player, even more DPS for some build and profession. But, condition do not work well together.

1 Condition damage player can almost max most of the condition if he have a good build and skilled player. On my engie i could keep 15-20 stack of bleed and Vulnerability easy. On top of that poison and burning were there for a good amount of time. A second condition player could not have 100% of his DPS since the first condition player take about 75-90% of the place for the condition.

Even non condition build does quit a bit of condition. They don’t do a lot of DPS, but they still do DPS. These condition will be completely pushed aside by the condition of a condition build, directly decreasing the damage done by the rest of the team.

I frankly believe that a 1 condition damage build in a team could boost the overall DPS of the team if the team is well crafted together to make sure that the team as a whole don’t put more condition that the cap. This is hard to accomplish and maybe is not even worth it. But because of all that, it way easier if everybody is direct damage. That way, you will never lose DPS because you are in a party with a second condition player.

Are people even entertaining this post? Well then…

Zorion.7504:

deleted

All you saying is correct, but by “direct” I meant “per tick”. Sorry that not expressed the thought accurately.

Thank you for your post and the honesty with which you wrote it, but your research is incorrect. All the bleed experiment shows is the fact that both you and your friend kept up about HALF of the stacks and stabilized their DPS around that.

Condition damage remains as it always was.
I’d also like to point out that your analogy between vulnerability and bleeding is incorrect. The effects of vulnerability are only shown when another damage source is applied (let’s say a longbow shot), whereas bleeding ticks for damage without any further attacks.

Sincerely,
Fenrir Dragonbone

As much as I wished this claim was true, it is not at least for spvp.

Test:

Condi Engie vs Condi Necro, unkillable golem

Tested with one of my guildmates, we frequently saw each other lose either our poison or burning right when the other obtained theres. On several occasions I pushed him off completely with him sustaining less than usual bleed ticks while I raked in monster bleeds from my grenades which would mean that I constantly pushed him off of the bleed table.

8/10 – mildly amusing, significant haul.

Drakent.9605:

First of all this sound like something from a year ago so a lot has change and second don’t read between the line all the dev say is that instead of giving every 1 a individual number for there condition effect they added 1 icon of each condition, this does not mean that each condition damage Is being over lap with the highest condition damage

And this makes a lot of sense, can you imaging having 40 ppl on open world with bleed effect on 1 mob it will freaking lag like hell, make a lot of sense to have 1 bleed icon on a mob

I’m not sure how 40 condi players would lag like hell. First off, every other MMO I’ve played with condi/dots has handled it fine. Second, there’s much more ‘maths to roll’ in direct dam, due to crit/chance to add condi’s/etc.

The no-overwriting is still a big issue. That you can have people in power gear, adding tiny bleeds with crit, stopping people with full condi gear from adding bigger dam is silly & a DPS loss.
In reverse it’s just as frustrating with buffs. Example, you add 30 sec swift with spectral walk, then it’s replaced with 4sec swift from another player.

As for lots of changes, there has been. Massive removal of attrition, (Removing DS being usable as a ‘block’ due to the reason we could jump any distance, tho using spect walk to do the same thing is a feature. Foot in the Grave from perm stability in DS to 3sec, much more to push us far behind any other class.) Massive removal of our ‘role’ which was condi manipulation. (Most insulting was the secret change to Putrid Mark no longer removing condi’s from others, then not replying to if it was a bug or a feature for 3 months)

I don’t see the problem with damage calculations itself. It shouldn’t matter to the server or the network connection if there are calculations for 100x hundred blades with different power, crit DMG, might stacks and crit chances behind it (with armor of the opponents to be taken into consideration too) or 1000 (assuming 10 stacks by each of a group of 100 people) bleeding ticks with different condi DMG and might stacks behind it. Actually the condi ticks should be the easier ones to calculate since they are only affected by condi DMG and might stacks and directly go through armor.

These calculations already work partly – introduced with the new condition icons adding up all your bleeding stacks. I guess adding up all stacks of a map could be the next step. But not without balancing boss/enemy HP or even the whole game around these changes in the same step.

I think the main reasons for the caps initially introduced was the fear of enemies melting too fast under the combination of direct DMG and full condition DMG and also the impact of condition dmg on large scale PvP/WvW.

For PvE – apart from global HP adjustments – there are already new enemy mechanics in place, that could help. Enemies are already dodging, healing up, even have down states. Active condition removal could also be used by enemies when a certain amount of condition stacks is reached. That way players could/would need to continuously apply conditions to keep them up. That’s at least what I could imagine for PvE and map bosses.

In PvP and WvW balancing this would be difficult. There should not be a difference if you are insta killed by simultaneous direct DMG of many players or a huge amount of condition stacks applied by the same amount of players. But there are classes that can do both high direct and condition dmg. And lots of conditions can be applied ranged. To me that sounds very difficult to balance and by changing the condi DMG mechanic, ANet would need to do severe changes to every aspect of the game. So I understand the underlying problem here…

I hope there will be some solution in the future. Currently condition builds are mostly considered not viable in PvE (especially boss fights – see also current LS Knights) and generally in large scale combat. Most condition players will be asked to switch to zerker gear (not always in the friendliest way). I think that’s a situation that should never arise in a well balanced game. Instead of a trinity we have zerker – zerker – zerker now…

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I don’t think an infinite condition spam (no stack limit) would be a good solution. Also personal stack limits are not the best solution. That’s clear to me too and has also been mentioned by the devs.

They are looking into it but won’t implement either of those two “solutions”. I’m curious though, what they come up with – the problem obviously is very complex.

If ANet made mobs more “difficult” by upping toughness rather than vitality we would not have this discussion. But as long as it is vitality that gets upped, the hard limit on condition damage ends up favoring direct damage spam.