Guild Wars 2

Hellkaiser.6025:

I’ve yet to see a decent justification for this lame stat from an A-Net employee in fact, and it’s been complained about for months. What the heck?

It’s a fact that new items both for Halloween and Wintersday were using Magic Find so I believe the “issue” with is not concerning the devs much

Considering:
-Anet has said that they though people would take longer to accomplish what they have (e.g. getting full exotics).
-There has been +MF on holiday gear.
-The introduction of unique drops into dungeons that use +MF to determine if it drops or not.

Does anyone else feel like Anet wants to use MF gear to slow us down?

As long as you’re swapping to DPS gear during the boss fight (where having MF would give no bonuses to your loots anyways, so there is no point in wearing MF at all), I don’t see a problem.
The non-boss parts of the dungeons are a joke so feel free to wear MF or even run naked.

I once ran two consecutive fractals wearing loots I dropped in the dungeon aka white trash because my armor was broken as I forgot to repair before starting and we had bad luck.
Others were throwing trash loots at me to wear, that was the funniest run ever – I even dyed the trash to make me look like a hobo and we all laffed.

It’s a game guys, and a a game that’s little reliant on gear and a lot more on skill and reflexes.
Don’t go mad on these things.

Valento.9852:

I think ANet should only leave MF as a food buff + gemstore item, it’s enough, and balance loot tables accordingly.
What do you guys think?

I’d prefer if they eliminated magic find, and boosted the drop tables for everyone. Since that is not likely to happen if they are actually getting revenue from MF boosters, I’d settle for food/store boosts only, getting rid of the MF stat on gear and through sigils.

Face it, drop tables are not going to produce valuable drops at a rate higher than ANet wants. Thus, the tables have to be set to produce that “desired” drop rate taking MF into account. This means that those who don’t use MF are below that curve. MF is nothing but a tax on farming.

Not all players have the same mindset. Whoever made that post generalizes that all players SHOULD have his mindset and therefore, shun the use of MF gear.

Unfortunately, some players play “the way they want to”, not dictated by build (i.e. glass canon, etc), speed (efficiency, etc), shiny stuff (costumes, etc) and just play because, well, the game provides them with amusement.

I don’t mind players who hate MF players, at the same time, I don’t mind players advocating the opposite. To each his own…

And if worries the players so much, go find a guild or friends with “same mindset”, whether playing to have a good time, or playing for efficiency, or for other reasons…

maddoctor.2738:

Hellkaiser.6025:

I’ve yet to see a decent justification for this lame stat from an A-Net employee in fact, and it’s been complained about for months. What the heck?

It’s a fact that new items both for Halloween and Wintersday were using Magic Find so I believe the “issue” with is not concerning the devs much

There hasn’t been a decent justification as to why it should leave either, except for “I don’t like it.” and sometimes “I don’t understand it and think it makes a large difference.”

We’re talking a net effect of ~2-4 extra rares per dungeon run vs a minute or two faster a run in full zerker, or one extra hit if geared defensively. The amount of complaints about it proportionate to it’s actual effect on the game is just… absurd.

Toss in the fact that it’s such a big part of the system; it’s on gear, store buffs, guild buffs, food, and temporary bonuses… how do they change all that? What do they change it to? What about people who have full MF sets and all other sets that they want on their characters (like me), how do they change the set in such a way not to leave them SoL? When weighing a change to a mechanic that a.) works and b.)is of small impact vs the stuff that ACTUALLY needs immediate attention, A MF change has gotta be pretty low on the priority list.

Edit: I’ll bet if there was a poll for people who are dissatisfied with the drop rate, the majority of them would be mis-attributing it to the amount of magic find that they have.

Artemis Noir.3804:

Except that people running vitality and toughness are far less likely to die, which means they are doing damage because they are standing rather than in a permanent downed state. Further, if they are standing, they are also able to rez, bringing even more to the party. The person in full MF, on the other hand, is like the individual who shows up to a group lunch in a restaurant and “forgets” to bring their wallet. They take, but they contribute nothing.

So, basically, you have no problem with people doing less dmg. You also have no problem with people who have low survivability. But that only applies as long as they aren’t wearing mfind gear. I have Knight and Explorer set. The difference is in toughness, dmg is the exact same. But toughness only helps if you are actually getting hit. If I’m not taking dmg, the 2 sets are perfectly equal. So, how can you claim that 1 of them is “dragging the party down”?

TWMagimay.9057:

Artemis Noir.3804:

Except that people running vitality and toughness are far less likely to die, which means they are doing damage because they are standing rather than in a permanent downed state. Further, if they are standing, they are also able to rez, bringing even more to the party. The person in full MF, on the other hand, is like the individual who shows up to a group lunch in a restaurant and “forgets” to bring their wallet. They take, but they contribute nothing.

So, basically, you have no problem with people doing less dmg. You also have no problem with people who have low survivability. But that only applies as long as they aren’t wearing mfind gear. I have Knight and Explorer set. The difference is in toughness, dmg is the exact same. But toughness only helps if you are actually getting hit. If I’m not taking dmg, the 2 sets are perfectly equal. So, how can you claim that 1 of them is “dragging the party down”?

Are you sure you are not going to take any damage during all the dungeon runs you will EVER do in the game? I bet you get hit sometimes… so yes you will be dragging the party down even with one hit.

Also, besides having reduced stats you are gaining something, while your party loses, ever thought of that “imbalance”? Besides you are still missing stats AND other benefits of Runes, what kind of runes do you have on your Knight set and what kind of runes on your Explorer set? Which sigil are you using? Full MF set = everything MF sigils/runes/armor/jewels.

What’s so selfish about MF gear is that you lower your gear quality intentionaly for personal gain. YOU only gain something by using it, while the rest of the group loses, every other stat/build offers something to the group, more toughness/vitality is needed at times, more condition damage might be needed sometimes (not often), more boons/healing/support. MF is NEVER ever needed in any way or form…

Anyone think they would nerf drop rates even further if magic find gear gets too popular XD?

Magic find is an old stat that needs to be gotten rid of, their can be better and other ways to increase your magic find without having to make it an armor stat, (food, temporary buffs, temporary rewards for doing certaint things, making magic find buffs drop randomly)

Please support and bump my thread posted on this, the longer its on the front page, the more attention it will get!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Magic-find-needs-to-go/page/3#post1077888

maddoctor.2738:

Are you sure you are not going to take any damage during all the dungeon runs you will EVER do in the game? I bet you get hit sometimes… so yes you will be dragging the party down even with one hit.

Also, besides having reduced stats you are gaining something, while your party loses, ever thought of that “imbalance”? Besides you are still missing stats AND other benefits of Runes, what kind of runes do you have on your Knight set and what kind of runes on your Explorer set? Which sigil are you using? Full MF set = everything MF sigils/runes/armor/jewels.

What’s so selfish about MF gear is that you lower your gear quality intentionaly for personal gain. YOU only gain something by using it, while the rest of the group loses, every other stat/build offers something to the group, more toughness/vitality is needed at times, more condition damage might be needed sometimes (not often), more boons/healing/support. MF is NEVER ever needed in any way or form…

My problem with this whole attitude is that you are judging gear and not performance. How do you even figure that out? How do you decide who contributed more, the guy in mfind set that got downed 2 times, the glass cannon guy who went down 5 times or the vit/toughness guy who didn’t get downed at all?

No matter how you swing it, a guy in MF gear would perform better in non-MF gear.

@maddoctor,

First, thank you for the discussion. I’m very into trying to understand people who’s perceptions, goals, etc are different from mine, so I’ve found it to be very interesting.

I think based on your responses to me and others, the problem isn’t the lower efficiency. Your comments about taking new players, etc seem to make that clear. The problem is that the person is intentionally lowering their efficiency and that they benefit from the decision. It’s the intent combined with personal benefit that seems to be the problem for you and those like you who are upset about other players using magic find in groups.

I suspect based on this, you’d also be upset at someone who could wear full exotics, but choice to wear only masterwork gear because it saved them on repair bills, correct? Again, you’d have both triggers: intent and personal benefit. I came up with this while thinking about the possibility of the group sharing magic find and what wouldn’t be fixed. Same thing happens with a player who is saving up gold to buy better gear instead of buying the best gear he could get now. Technically, his choice is benefiting just himself (or herself) at the expense of lowering the efficiency of any group they are a member of.

Of course, this still doesn’t address the simple fact that I know from my own experience I can stand and melee the bosses in AC, most of them in CM, and usually am the highest DPS player in any group my warrior runs in. I don’t have survival problems which is why I can get away with using sigil of luck on my main hand weapon (off hand is earth…I mentioned bleeds, right). The net result is that I get a few extra rare drops (I think exotic drops have become like unicorns since the Nov 15 patch) when I run a dungeon compared to what I get when I run my non-MF toons.

It’s when I put all the possible ways that players choose to be less than perfectly efficient combined with the fact that for 80-90% of the content of the game, you don’t even have to be close that makes it such a non-factor for me. I’d be much more irritated with a player who consistently makes bad pulls or tries to melee the tree in TA than I ever would with someone who is running sub-optimum builds or gear.

I don’t believe this is written by a person using MF at all. The self-deprecating things he says about the system and how if effects himself in the party are verbatim the diatribe you hear from anti-mf folks on Reddit and the forums.

If I had the time I could probably pick sentences out of the posts of three specific users on here and fully construct that confession.

People will have an issue with this as long as they think someone else is benefiting from their word or impeding their progress. More often than not it’s the players that struggle with the dungeon to begin with and need every single trait they can get that want other players to be able to more effectively carry them.

Plain and simple its a “But I need that extra 17 points in toughness, if he doesn’t then he must be doing it wrong and is making it harder for me” thought process that is chalk full of fallacy.

As always, MF only makes a difference when you have five people of the exact same skill, using the same quality gear, with the exact same knowledge of their profession and the dungeon. And that will never happen. So you can never prove the MF user is a weak link. Maybe the guy in Berserker gear has higher DPS potential, but cant properly capitalize.

That is all those numbers mean on the level of margin between MF and non. Just like its all they currently mean between exotic/ascended. Potential. Just because you have a gear set that makes yours higher, doesn’t mean you know what to do with it or how to make the most of it. Yet alone four other people in the party. For all you know the guy in MF could actually be outperforming half of the group.

AcidicVision.5498:

I don’t believe this is written by a person using MF at all. The self-deprecating things he says about the system and how if effects himself in the party are verbatim the diatribe you hear from anti-mf folks on Reddit and the forums.

If I had the time I could probably pick sentences out of the posts of three specific users on here and fully construct that confession.

People will have an issue with this as long as they think someone else is benefiting from their word or impeding their progress. More often than not it’s the players that struggle with the dungeon to begin with and need every single trait they can get that want other players to be able to more effectively carry them.

Plain and simple its a “But I need that extra 17 points in toughness, if he doesn’t then he must be doing it wrong and is making it harder for me” thought process that is chalk full of fallacy.

As always, MF only makes a difference when you have five people of the exact same skill, using the same quality gear, with the exact same knowledge of their profession and the dungeon. And that will never happen. So you can never prove the MF user is a weak link. Maybe the guy in Berserker gear has higher DPS potential, but cant properly capitalize.

That is all those numbers mean on the level of margin between MF and non. Just like its all they currently mean between exotic/ascended. Potential. Just because you have a gear set that makes yours higher, doesn’t mean you know what to do with it or how to make the most of it. Yet alone four other people in the party. For all you know the guy in MF could actually be outperforming half of the group.

You could be right, but lets face it.

This forum and potentially your very own posts, could be just as full of hot air and rubbish. He could just potentially feel that it’s a necessary evil but hates that he’s given the choice. The arguments to meet this are usually rubbish too

“Oh no, help us save you from yourself!!! haha just stop doing it” etc.

Ignoring the issue that he doesn’t want to gimp himself and just prefers to play in an environment where everyone just tries to do their best for the better of all.
But heck… MF is not the biggest priority in the game right now, on that I wholeheartedly agree. There’s bigger piles of stinking rubbish in this game that need sorting not just mean spirited farmer joe mf users.

TWMagimay.9057:

My problem with this whole attitude is that you are judging gear and not performance. How do you even figure that out? How do you decide who contributed more, the guy in mfind set that got downed 2 times, the glass cannon guy who went down 5 times or the vit/toughness guy who didn’t get downed at all?

The MF player can be a “pro” and not die as often as the other noobs, but that doesn’t make it right, think what happens if the two players are of equal skill, what happens then? Clearly, judging by equal skill and all the already proven math on the subject, the player with the better gear is helping more, that’s a fact and can’t change.

More importantly though, it’s not the gear or the performance that matters, as I’ve mentioned countless times I WILL play with noobs, they can learn and improve themselves, I WILL play with people that only have green gear, I can help them choose the best gear for them if they wish but never force anything upon them.

I can’t stand MF users. I don’t care if their performance is amazing or if they can pull themselves while using MF without problems. I can’t stand MF users because they have ALL the choice in the world to get gear that will HELP the party succeed (even a milisecond faster) but instead they intentionaly choose the subpar gear that doesn’t help the party the least bit and instead helps themselves at the expense of everyone else. There is nothing to teach these guys, there is no helping them selecting their gear, they made their choice, chosen subpar gear, and can’t change their minds….

Astralporing.1957:

I’m not judging neither gear, nor performance. I am judging attitude. When i see a full MF-geared player in a dungeon, I see someone that decided to screw the other four players for profit. You may think that’s okay – I do not.

So, if that mfind player happens to be the best from the bunch, you still think he’s screwing everybody over? How does he screw you over if he’s the only one who doesn’t get downed at all, the boss is dying at a good pace despite those without “attitude” being on the floor half the time while the guy with the “attitude” is ressing yall up, maintaining xx stacks of might/bleed/w.e etc etc. He’s better than all of you, but he still screws you over, right?

They will not change MF for months, it should be about on the bottom of their priority list, if it is on there.
Just do not play with PUGs, all I can say.

And to all those defending MF:

Yes, you lose tons of damage.

When we are at the final boss (of fractals or other instance) we always ask if he is wearing MF or if we see SoL during instance, if they said yes, they are instantly kicked ( Yeah we are 3 team mate).

AcidicVision.5498:

I don’t believe this is written by a person using MF at all. The self-deprecating things he says about the system and how if effects himself in the party are verbatim the diatribe you hear from anti-mf folks on Reddit and the forums.

If I had the time I could probably pick sentences out of the posts of three specific users on here and fully construct that confession.

People will have an issue with this as long as they think someone else is benefiting from their word or impeding their progress. More often than not it’s the players that struggle with the dungeon to begin with and need every single trait they can get that want other players to be able to more effectively carry them.

Plain and simple its a “But I need that extra 17 points in toughness, if he doesn’t then he must be doing it wrong and is making it harder for me” thought process that is chalk full of fallacy.

As always, MF only makes a difference when you have five people of the exact same skill, using the same quality gear, with the exact same knowledge of their profession and the dungeon. And that will never happen. So you can never prove the MF user is a weak link. Maybe the guy in Berserker gear has higher DPS potential, but cant properly capitalize.

That is all those numbers mean on the level of margin between MF and non. Just like its all they currently mean between exotic/ascended. Potential. Just because you have a gear set that makes yours higher, doesn’t mean you know what to do with it or how to make the most of it. Yet alone four other people in the party. For all you know the guy in MF could actually be outperforming half of the group.

a very level headed and well thought out post.

posts like this need more attention. people in this thread should be more open minded like this guy, instead of immediately assuming the worst and discriminating others on the type of gear they choose to wear.

dont be a bigot. . .

big·ot·ry
Noun
Bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

Xavori.3768:

I suspect based on this, you’d also be upset at someone who could wear full exotics, but choice to wear only masterwork gear because it saved them on repair bills, correct? Again, you’d have both triggers: intent and personal benefit. I came up with this while thinking about the possibility of the group sharing magic find and what wouldn’t be fixed. Same thing happens with a player who is saving up gold to buy better gear instead of buying the best gear he could get now. Technically, his choice is benefiting just himself (or herself) at the expense of lowering the efficiency of any group they are a member of.

That’s true. I have more “issues” with players using Green/Rare MF gear than people intentionaly using lower quality while they have an exotic somewhere. I don’t believe repair costs are as high as people make them to be, so as to stop using their exotic gear to save some silver… High MF benefits easily outperform any benefits from not using Exotics.
[/quote]

It’s when I put all the possible ways that players choose to be less than perfectly efficient combined with the fact that for 80-90% of the content of the game, you don’t even have to be close that makes it such a non-factor for me. I’d be much more irritated with a player who consistently makes bad pulls or tries to melee the tree in TA than I ever would with someone who is running sub-optimum builds or gear.

I’d be more irritated at someone who is running MF gear (not sub-optimum builds or gear) than the player who makes bad pulls. The second one (as well as those with sub-optimum builds/gear) can be taught a lesson. Pro players should try and teach people instead of rage quiting if someone does a bad pull and the party wipes. The first one is beyond saving, he already made all his choices and chosen not to help his team in any way and instead get gear.

Mirm.5249:

When we are at the final boss (of fractals or other instance) we always ask if he is wearing MF or if we see SoL during instance, if they said yes, they are instantly kicked ( Yeah we are 3 team mate).

That is considered legitimate griefing and Anet has asked people to report parties that kick them on the final boss or before rewards. Guess that’s cool if you think your agenda is worth a 72 hour ban.

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Yes, you lose tons of damage.

I just checked. 50 precision is tons on dmg in what world exactly?

Mirm.5249:

When we are at the final boss (of fractals or other instance) we always ask if he is wearing MF or if we see SoL during instance, if they said yes, they are instantly kicked ( Yeah we are 3 team mate).

Thank you for adding yourself to my block list.

What honestly would have been wrong with the suggestion to change magic find I said ages ago?

Change magic find to a passive effect on your character rewarded from doing things in game, map completion, pvp, dungeon completions, jumping puzzles etc. The more achievements you’ve done the higher your magic find would rise and the better loot you would get all the time. This would of course mean replacing current magic find gear stats to something else and food and other things which give boosts to magic find other buffs as well.

This system would give better rewards to those who have been doing more activities in game and give you overall better drops depending on how much time you’ve invested into your character. Best of all magic find would not be on gear, food, sigils or anything else, meaning you can actually gear for survival, burst damage in pvp, condition damage etc. Your magic find stat would be I say again a passive effect on your character meaning you would have it in effect no matter what you wear, even if you wore nothing at all.

TWMagimay.9057:

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Yes, you lose tons of damage.

I just checked. 50 precision is tons on dmg in what world exactly?

Mirm.5249:

When we are at the final boss (of fractals or other instance) we always ask if he is wearing MF or if we see SoL during instance, if they said yes, they are instantly kicked ( Yeah we are 3 team mate).

Thank you for adding yourself to my block list.

The damage of Traveler set is 2/3 of Berserker

TWMagimay.9057:

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Yes, you lose tons of damage.

I just checked. 50 precision is tons on dmg in what world exactly?

Compared to berserker gear, which is the only gear you can actually compare it with.
Edit:
The 2/3 is calculated without runes and weapons I assume?

skotie.2614:

What honestly would have been wrong with the suggestion to change magic find I said ages ago?

Change magic find to a passive effect on your character rewarded from doing things in game, map completion, pvp, dungeon completions, jumping puzzles etc. The more achievements you’ve done the higher your magic find would rise and the better loot you would get all the time. This would of course mean replacing current magic find gear stats to something else and food and other things which give boosts to magic find other buffs as well.

This system would give better rewards to those who have been doing more activities in game and give you overall better drops depending on how much time you’ve invested into your character. Best of all magic find would not be on gear, food, sigils or anything else, meaning you can actually gear for survival, burst damage in pvp, condition damage etc. Your magic find stat would be I say again a passive effect on your character meaning you would have it in effect no matter what you wear, even if you wore nothing at all.

I love this idea. I so want achievements and ap to be smth more than e-kitten thing… Why do all games make these useless systems when it’s so easy to give them a meaning is beyond me…

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

TWMagimay.9057:

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Yes, you lose tons of damage.

I just checked. 50 precision is tons on dmg in what world exactly?

Compared to berserker gear, which is the only gear you can actually compare it with.

Why is Berzerker the only set you can compare it to? I already asked earlier and people agreed that toughness/vit sets are not useless or anything…

TWMagimay.9057:

skotie.2614:

What honestly would have been wrong with the suggestion to change magic find I said ages ago?

Change magic find to a passive effect on your character rewarded from doing things in game, map completion, pvp, dungeon completions, jumping puzzles etc. The more achievements you’ve done the higher your magic find would rise and the better loot you would get all the time. This would of course mean replacing current magic find gear stats to something else and food and other things which give boosts to magic find other buffs as well.

This system would give better rewards to those who have been doing more activities in game and give you overall better drops depending on how much time you’ve invested into your character. Best of all magic find would not be on gear, food, sigils or anything else, meaning you can actually gear for survival, burst damage in pvp, condition damage etc. Your magic find stat would be I say again a passive effect on your character meaning you would have it in effect no matter what you wear, even if you wore nothing at all.

I love this idea. I so want achievements and ap to be smth more than e-kitten thing… Why do all games make these useless systems when it’s so easy to give them a meaning is beyond me…

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

TWMagimay.9057:

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Yes, you lose tons of damage.

I just checked. 50 precision is tons on dmg in what world exactly?

Compared to berserker gear, which is the only gear you can actually compare it with.

Why is Berzerker the only set you can compare it to? I already asked earlier and people agreed that toughness/vit sets are not useless or anything…

Why would you compare a set with precision and power with something like healing power or tanky gear?

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

TWMagimay.9057:

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Yes, you lose tons of damage.

I just checked. 50 precision is tons on dmg in what world exactly?

Compared to berserker gear, which is the only gear you can actually compare it with.
Edit:
The 2/3 is calculated without runes and weapons I assume?

Runes/Sigils/Trait aren’t included in the calculation, weapon is (I assumed a Dagger in my calculations) It’s clear that Traveler’s does 2/3 damage of Berserker.

TWMagimay.9057:

Why is Berzerker the only set you can compare it to? I already asked earlier and people agreed that toughness/vit sets are not useless or anything…

Because the the best other gear that does only direct damage is Berserker and both Traveler and Berserker offer the same defensive stats, exactly 0.
The point with comparing to Berserker is “if you don’t want to have ANY survivability, use Berserker” I hope it’s simple to understand

And yeah, useless defensive stats are also bad. Still better than MF though.

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Why would you compare a set with precision and power with something like healing power or tanky gear?

Oh, you haven’t seen all sets in the game. Knight set has power/precision combination as well with toughness as main stat which is what I compared to explorer with mfind main stat. The 50 precision difference is from the jewels, because opal jewels have mfind as main and emerald have precision instead. Also, there is a power/cond dmg/mfind set as well which further expands the sets you can compare mfind gear to.

TWMagimay.9057:

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Why would you compare a set with precision and power with something like healing power or tanky gear?

Oh, you haven’t seen all sets in the game. Knight set has power/precision combination as well with toughness as main stat which is what I compared to explorer with mfind main stat. The 50 precision difference is from the jewels, because opal jewels have mfind as main and emerald have precision instead. Also, there is a power/cond dmg/mfind set as well which further expands the sets you can compare mfind gear to.

So, taking your example of knight’s set.

If you do not need the toughness, why not take berserkers over MF?

I do not see your point, by the way. Are you grasping for straws until someone says:

If you run MF instead of Power/Vit/toughness, you do not lose damage?

Zogyark.4597:

MF food itself is fine since plenty of pugs don’t even use food for stat boost

I’ve always found that an odd place to draw the line. Food generally makes a much bigger difference than a sigil or a couple pieces of gear, yet some people who despise MF gear religiously use MF food. It makes no sense to me.

If you really only want to group with players who get the most out of their characters, you should demand that all your group members use non-MF food (well, the boon duration+MF food is iffy).

Lymain.6723:

Zogyark.4597:

MF food itself is fine since plenty of pugs don’t even use food for stat boost

I’ve always found that an odd place to draw the line. Food generally makes a much bigger difference than a sigil or a couple pieces of gear, yet some people who despise MF gear religiously use MF food. It makes no sense to me.

If you really only want to group with players who get the most out of their characters, you should demand that all your group members use non-MF food (well, the boon duration+MF food is iffy).

I personally do not despise MF, but running a full MF set is useless if you want to earn cash with dungeons, and all the people I run dungeons with came to the same conclusion

Okay, I have a question now that I’ve gotten a feel for some of the specifics of the anti-MF sentiment.

Let’s say you have two players (the DPS numbers are totally arbitrary except that they allow a comparison of the two players)

Player A- Blue-Green gear. Decent skill. Does an average of 1000 dps.

Player B- All exotic MF gear. Very good skill. Does an average of 1500 dps.

Both players have no major survival issues so no drain on the group from having to rez them. All other things about them are equal.

Now, are you really so opposed to MF gear that you’d prefer player A even though he’s actually contributing less than the MF player?

And yes, the hypothetical I set up is not only possible, it’s one I play with all the time as 9 times out 10, when running my MF warrior in PUG’s, I’m the highest DPS toon in the group.

AcidicVision.5498:

Mirm.5249:

When we are at the final boss (of fractals or other instance) we always ask if he is wearing MF or if we see SoL during instance, if they said yes, they are instantly kicked ( Yeah we are 3 team mate).

That is considered legitimate griefing and Anet has asked people to report parties that kick them on the final boss or before rewards. Guess that’s cool if you think your agenda is worth a 72 hour ban.

Yes, totaly worth it.

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

So, taking your example of knight’s set.

If you do not need the toughness, why not take berserkers over MF?

I do not see your point, by the way. Are you grasping for straws until someone says:

If you run MF instead of Power/Vit/toughness, you do not lose damage?

Because I don’t want to take berzerker?

Well, isn’t that true? You can’t randomly choose a set to compare mfind to and go like “yeah, you lose a lot of dps”. You lose 1 stat. I’ll try to explain it better.
Player A is using a Knight set to compensate for lack of skill/knowledge/experience with the extra survival from toughness.
Player B is very skilled/experienced/knowledgeable so s/he opts for mfind instead of toughness.
Why is player B contributing less(or leeching or w/e) compared to player A? Taken both of them would provide roughly the same dps(since they have the same offensive stats) and will have roughly the same amount of downed time(since their survivability is also roughly the same).

^ because they could do even more if that mf was turned into crit dam.

your comparing 2 different tiers of gear

why arent you comparing Exotic Berserker with Exotic MF.

oh, it’s because MF doesnt compare at all thats why.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Valento.9852:

I think ANet should only leave MF as a food buff + gemstore item, it’s enough, and balance loot tables accordingly.
What do you guys think?

I’d prefer if they eliminated magic find, and boosted the drop tables for everyone. Since that is not likely to happen if they are actually getting revenue from MF boosters, I’d settle for food/store boosts only, getting rid of the MF stat on gear and through sigils.

Face it, drop tables are not going to produce valuable drops at a rate higher than ANet wants. Thus, the tables have to be set to produce that “desired” drop rate taking MF into account. This means that those who don’t use MF are below that curve. MF is nothing but a tax on farming.

I am for this idea too, if we must have it, add magic find to titles and mini pets, do not make a mechanic that divides the community and causes hate.

I really have no clue what the developers were thinking with this mechanic to be honest..

Gasoline.2570:

^ because they could do even more if that mf was turned into crit dam.

And? They could also do less if that precision was turned into vitality. Why do you think it’s wrong for people to take advantage of being more skilled than others? Why should that guy carry you through a dungeon instead of perform just as good as you do but get more drops for being a better player?

They would do no less if prec was turned into vital, why? they survive longer, they manage to help downed players with higher probability.

Whenever there’s mf, theres a lot less of 1 vital stat that makes a difference no matter how you look at it. So, there.

I am the kind of guy who runs dungeons with low levels, with green, white, blue and MF gear.
If I were to start choosing the people I play with, going by what I find to be appropriate, I would sit there all day alone waiting.

To grab an example to make clear where I am coming from:

The thing I mean is called ‘alternative loss’.

If you can choose between path A and path B,
whereas path A rewards you with X, and path B rewards you with X+ 10.

No matter which path you choose, you earn something.
If you choose A though, your alternative loss equals 10, because you could have had 10 more choosing path B.

Same with MF gear, and that is my whole point

Gasoline.2570:

They would do no less if prec was turned into vital, why? they survive longer, they manage to help downed players with higher probability.

Whenever there’s mf, theres a lot less of 1 vital stat that makes a difference no matter how you look at it. So, there.

How exactly do you survive longer compared to “not getting downed at all”?

@above: I absolutely didn’t understand that.

Whatever the case is;

Every set has 3 stats that help you fight and survive longer, mf does none of those and instead grants 1 person better loot instead of contribution to the rest of the team. This is why MF is a bad mechanic and awards selfish players.

Then take your time understanding it. If you do not, there is no more point in talking.

Gasoline.2570:

Whatever the case is;

Every set has 3 stats that help you fight and survive longer, mf does none of those and instead grants 1 person better loot instead of contribution to the rest of the team. This is why MF is a bad mechanic and awards selfish players for being more skilled than the rest.

There, fixed it for you. Now tell me what’s wrong with being rewarded for skill.

@above: True, if you can’t explain your point, there is no reason to keep talking.

The first step to curing yourself is admitting your problem. Good for you. Now sit down in your chair…next person, state your name and why you are here…..

kitten that, I’m gonna farm some orichalcum.