Guild Wars 2

This post is mainly for those who played Guild Wars for so long, and loved it. Does anyone else feel like I do? Prepare for a wall of text. I really hope that some of you old school Guild Wars junkies out there give it a good read and a good comment

Here’s where I find myself:

I love Guild Wars. I’ve logged thousands of hours over several years in Tyria, Cantha, and Elona. I’ve been excited about Guild Wars 2 since they announced it right around the time that Eye of the North was released.

I was really excited for Headstart. I made a few characters that I fully intended to play for years, with all the heart and gustso I put into my Guild Wars characters.
Since then, every day, my smile has gotten a little smaller. Since mid-November, I haven’t even been able to log on and play for more than a few minutes. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING that I loved so much about Guild Wars – all the things that made Guild Wars different and special and kept me coming back year after year…

..they’re all gone.

Playstyle variety: with every class I’ve tried, I feel pigeonholed into a specific playstyle. I must have a pet if I’m a Ranger, for example. Most traits aren’t really designed well, and tend to force players into fairly similar builds. I can’t use secondary skills from other classes. So I always wind up playing the same builds, because there just isn’t that much variety.

Levelling: It takes forever (especially if you’re a working adult with family). I can’t level a new character from 1 to max in a week or less like I could in Guild Wars. So when I want to try that dungeon with something different, it takes weeks/months for me to level an alt. Basically, I’ve got one character to 80, and no other past the early 40’s.

…continued…

Lore: Some things just don’t add up, and the personal storylines seem hastily and crudely assembled. I think that the voice acting, by and large, is worse than what you’d see at a High School play. It’s like reading a cheap, poorly-edited fantasy or romance novel. It realy distracts from immersion. And it’s not nearly as epic as leading the Ascalonians to Kryta with Rurik was.

Economy: I realize that ArenaNet has always hated farming, for whatever reason, but this has become a certifiable witch hunt. Even in Guild Wars, after all the farming nerfs (600/smite for example), you could still just play the game and do a few dungeons here and there and make enough cash to get by. I feel like I’ve got to farm 24/7 just to be able to afford some mediocre gear on the Trading Post. I used to be able to go do a few events in Orr to make some quick cash, but even that’s been nerfed.

Are ArenaNet catering to the botters? It sure seems like botters are the only ones who can make enough cash just to buy something now and then…Between Diminishing Returns, abysmal drop rates, and a complete infestation of botters, there’s just no hope for people like me to ever be able to afford anything.

Crafting: Well, Guild Wars didn’t have crafting, but at this point I’m not sure that what we have in Guild Wars 2 is an improvement. I can’t afford to buy enough materials to level my crafting – I don’t have the time (or interest) in farming up that astounding amount.

Gem Store: has anyone else been getting the impression that it’s getting harder to get gold in the game, but due to gem prices, more tempting to just buy it from ArenaNet? This is really starting to turn me off. I don’t mind if they have a Gem Store and put stuff in there like we had in Guild Wars. Cosmetic items like armour and town clothing are fine. Character makeovers are a fantastic idea.

But if I need to get on the gem store so I can get an XP boost because it’s taking forever to level, or a Karma boost because the grind for second-rate Karma gear takes too long, or ( and this one really chaps my hide, folks ) a Glory Booster so I can increase my PvP title faster…this isn’t right. It just isn’t right. I really feel like I’m being deliberately funneled to that Gem Store – that the game is designed to force me to either grind my kitten off, or buy gems. Does this feel dirty to anyone else?

Grind: The grind in Guild Wars for some fancy items (Obsidian Armour comes to mind) could get to be pretty hefty. But there was never, ever a grind for better stat gear. I felt like I could max a character and then go anywhere/do anything and never grind unless I wanted to, for a pretty skin. This really turns me off. If I wanted to grind for gear, I’d play other games that do gear progression much better than ArenaNet. This is a big reason why I loved Guild Wars so much. I didn’t have to worry about gear.

I’d be tempted to forgive the Ascended Gear if it was just as easy to get as Exotic, but man. Such a turnoff, for this longtime Guild Wars junkie.

PvP: Where is GvG? Guild Wars orbited around GvG – and even if you didn’t GvG you still followed the ladder because it was interesting and fun.
What about all the different arenas? Where is the esport? All we have are several maps of the same thing: capping points. That’s it. You can’t even go into your guild hall, invite a friend, and duel.

There were great rewards for PvP in Guild Wars: Lots of titles, /rank emotes, and special capes for guilds that did well each month. Now we’ve got one title, and it can essentially be bought in the gem store. Seems cheap. Everything, and I mean everything, was equal in Guild Wars PvP. I think the lack of sPvP content in GW2 is one of the biggest letdowns, after the gear grind and gem store.

WvW: This really started out as a very redeeming feature. Enter gear grind. Sigh…

I know they said that GW2 would be nothing like Guild Wars – but I just assumed that by that they meant they were basically modernizing it and adding lots of fun new things to do. I didn’t realize that the entire philosophy of the game would be upended.

I feel, as a Guild Wars lover, that I got left out in the cold with GW2.

I want to like this game, but so much of it is such a turn-off.

So I guess my question to you longtime Guild Wars junkies out there: do you love GW2 as much as Guild Wars? Why? What turns you on about GW2 that you can’t find elsewhere?

Please, I’m interested in your opinions, but I ask that you read what I had to say and think about it a bit, first.

GL and HF

-Chuo

As I am growing up myself now, and getting less and less time to game, I am surprised to see why you don’t like the Gem Store much. It is entirely optional, and most of the things you can buy there are either cosmetic, or they simply allow you to play with more relative ease. So instead of spending a lot of time on certain things, I can instead spend some money, to achieve what I want to achieve. None of these things involve competitive play or game-breaking benefits that you could otherwise not get, so I’m entirely fine with the Gem Store.

As for the comparison with GW1, I do miss GW1s incredible adherence to horizontal-progression only. I have farmed for the Obsidian armor set, and I did it purely for the HoM points. Strange as it may be, but that was definitely satisfying and I look back at it with a sense of accomplishment. There is definitely not a single need for it being better. So I share that view, I would love for GW2 to become less about stats and levels. How did GW1 get away without a vertical progression? I suppose it was exploration, getting that armor set you wanted, doing all the missions. I never ran out of things to do in GW1, and I don’t see why this cannot be done in GW2.

To be fair, this has already been discussed in depth many times, but yes I agree. I played over 6000 hours in GW1 and it gets a bit confusing when on one hand they say “it’s a completely different game” and on the other hand they say “we take everything you love about GW1”.

Bottom line it is a completely different game and it didn’t really keep anything from what made GW1 a great game.

Now, that could be ok still if GW2 was completely different but still a great game, but my opinion is that it isn’t. I agree with that feeling about the gem store. You aren’t forced to buy gems but they certainly go out of their way to make it appealing.

And yes the story lines are a great let down for me as well…and the grind is just mad when it comes to legendaries and exalted stuff.

How did I deal with it? I stopped playing.

I am playing SWTOR because of the story lines and plan to pick up GW1 again with the winter event. I am not going to persist in a game that I simply don’t enjoy.

It was alright with my first toon, I will say that. The completion and jump puzzles were fun….once at least. JP’s I might repeat but not completion and not these story lines. Just before quitting I skipped through all the story line convo’s. They hurt my ears. Oh well, not for me obviously.

I’d like to add however, that I own both games now and I only play GW2. The combat style is so much more fun that that alone keeps me away from GW1.

All valid points OP and things a lot of players are thinking and feeling right now. I do love the game world and general gameplay (sans bugs) but wish the character build was a richer experience. It’s part of a general dumbing down that seems pervasive right now. The more serious problem for GW2 is the introduction of vertical progression and especially in the context of an economy where, yes, only botters benefit. The game design rewards botters, not players. If you’re not grinding 24/7 there’s just not a lot of reward coming back to you. The gem store could work but not filling it’s present role. Most people would prefer to be rewarded for playing a game; I know I would.

not going to lie. I didn’t read your whole post…ADHD orwhat have you… but I will coment on the first 2 points. I agree completely that they were 2 things I loved about GW1 as well. But they weren’t there at launch.

PVE in GW1 was very pigeon holed from the start because the skill variety wasn’t there. My nuker ele played with the same build pretty much from kryta to hells precepice, save for the addition of elites. I would switch to air or earth for pvp, but I was still pretty much using the same few skills from each.

The average player also could’t level an alt from 1-20 within a week. Not until factions launched. factions changed the pace of leveling a lot and added a lot of the things people claim they miss most.

what does this mean? it means there’s hope. A huge part of ANETS business plan involves selling expansions. If the had released a game with everything we wanted right from launch they would be shooting themselves in the foot or be left with nothing to add but something silly like pandas.

The future of the game is in future expansions. We just have to hope it involves into something as good as GW1 did.

I would rephrase that. It doesn’t benefit botters, but gold sellers. Anet are legal gold sellers in their own game via the gemstore, so they benefit as well.

It’s great to finally see more and more ex-Gw1 fans telling what they really think about gw2… Maybe they will understand one day…

Gehenna.3625:

I would rephrase that. It doesn’t benefit botters, but gold sellers. Anet are legal gold sellers in their own game via the gemstore, so they benefit as well.

Agree as the botters are gold sellers. Bottom line is the players are not benefiting from reward for playing the game beyond the general reward of gameplay.

You pretty much nailed it, i just lack motivation to play gw2.

You could play gw1 for weeks and still having a blast

GW2 isn’t GW1. There’s a lot more money to be made with people that favor gear progression. If you attract a big number of people, intentionally or not, that want a certain feature in your product, you want to make them happy. You don’t need or have to get max stat gear if it’s too much work for you. If you think the leveling process is too long, then you might want to stack more xp boosts, because the level cap will be raised in the future. GW1 was playing in the little league compared to GW2, so it could survive without meaningful progression. GW2 is a big boy’s game, and those big boys want their journey to be as long and hard as possible.
Nobody is going to kill you if you accept that you don’t have what it takes to stay on top. Feeling entitled to be on the same stair step with people that worked hard for it however doesn’t make you any friends. Be humble, know your place.
GW2 is a harsher environment, and the falloff rate for aspiring dedicated players is far higher, but that is what is needed to allow the masses dedicated players to feel a sense of superiority without breaking the game for those who decide to underperform.

The reduced open world drop rates is obviously a measure to protect the majority of players and the economy from bots. We know that ANet knows how many players are playing at any given time in any given area. The ratio of open world PvEers to dungeon raiders must be pretty low, low enough for them to sacrifice their happiness in order to focus their development on dungeons and item progression, so that they can keep a majority of players happy.

For all your complaints about lacking content, I agree. But ANet has you covered. You will be able to get ascended gear in WvW, and they will look at new game modes for sPvP. Just give them some time. They obviously had a lot of plans(housing/guild halls/mini games) that they were forced to cut out because they were pressured into a release.

Class balance in an ongoing process, and with the next big balance patch only a few days away, it’s clear that they are working hard to make ever profession viable in a number of ways.

Hi Chuo

Gehenna’s right, this has been hashed over a lot. But we feel very strongly! lol.

I am with you 100% on everything you posted. I am now back in GW1 and having a fine time. I’m even going to buy another character slot and more storage (take that, Gem Store!).

It’s sad to know I can’t do most of the pvp anymore, but I’ll deal with it.

I will say that I am not giving up hope on GW2. I will wait to see what happens in the next 6 months to a year. I will log in at Wintersday because ANet always does it so lovely.

Chuo.4238:

I think that the voice acting, by and large, is worse than what you’d see at a High School play.

What is hilarious to me is that I started a new ele in Elona, and I had forgotten that our toons talk in the cutscenes in Nightfall. Well it turns out it’s the same voice actress who did my female humans in GW2! That was a nice surprise.

To OP: I, and many more, share your sentiment.

They had an amazing game in their hands, and they’re destroying it piece by piece.

ASB.4295:

GW2 is a big boy’s game
…
Feeling entitled to be on the same stair step with people that worked hard for it however doesn’t make you any friends. Be humble, know your place.
…
those who decide to underperform.

Wow.

I played GW1 for a number of years. I don’t really miss it, though. In fact, last fallI was so bored with GW1 that I switched to another game while I was waiting for GW2. I had fun playing GW1 for a long while, but eventually it was a choice between grind for what or stop playing. I made my choice then. I enjoy GW2 for what it is, not for what I might have wished it would be. So… Not all GW players are feeling seriously nostalgiac.

agree with the op.

but gw2 aint gw1 is the answer that you get when you say something like that here .

i played gw1 until my pc started to smoke. i only got a char to lvl 12 in gw2 so far lol
The first time i played it after launch i felt totaly alienated in gw2.

Now and then i play a bit, but i mostly stop after an hour or so.

is it bad i even like baldurs gate 1 ee better?
Playing that a lot atm.

ps: @ asb “GW2 is a big boy’s game” this made me laught so hard, it made my day

most people play games for fun

Hello veterans.

I Had only aroun 3k hours played in GW but IMHO:

World In GW2 is Excelent I love the graphics the events the stories the dungeons… PVE content is supreme and I am really enjoying it. And for me PVE is better in GW2.

But I am mainly PVP player and PVP in current state is extremely boring. Only few capture maps? Thats all? I asked. They promise to make great PVP → to be an E-sport. But its not gonna happen. Its boring to play. Its boring to watch. Only thing you have to do is better build and avoid the circle with simple team tactics (bunker classes + rest running asap from point to point). PVP in GW1 was about every single team member. Single mistake should turn over the match. Now you have 2 oh kitten dodges + downed state. Its very casual friendly at least. And thats why GW1 is TOP PVP game for me (Aight win HON together).

Good luck.

innocens.1582:

is it bad i even like baldurs gate 1 ee better?

Not at all… Just not sure why everyone who feels this way about GW2 feels the need to try to change something that the rest of us are enjoying as is. Hockey is not baseball. Baseball is not football. Football is not football (hi EU! ). GW2 isn’t GW1. So why do people who love GW1 so much feel the need to complain over and over again about this fact? As far as I know, noone is constantly on the forums for any other MMO released in the past year complaining about how they miss GW1 and that game should be like GW1.

JaironKalach.4938:

GW2 isn’t GW1. So why do people who love GW1 so much feel the need to complain over and over again about this fact?

Anet

Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1

Q.E.D.

Rose tinted glasses. If you look back at the first GW, it launched with precious little content. For PvE you only had the story and two “dungeons”. For PvP you had Arenas, GvG and HoH.

On top of that you would hit max level in a few hours and could complete the story in a weekend. Afterwards the only real thing to do in PvE was to hunt for randomly spawning bosses for elite, or farm up mats and gold for 15k sets or unlocks for PvP.

A few months later the SF update added a new area, a new dungeon, and a new quality of weapons and the chest/key system.

The countless things to do in GW didn’t exist for months or years after its launch.
FA, JQ, Codex, Zaishen bounty, Zaishen mission, Zaishen vanquish, Zaishen chest, Hard mode, 12+ dungeons, rare collector weapons, TopK, many of the titles, world holidays, challenge missions, War for Kryta, Winds of Change. And that’s just what I could think of off the top of my head.

The game you are reflecting back on that had thousands of hours of content had about two weeks worth of PvE content when it launched. But that expanded exponentially in pretty good time.

GW2 looks to be similar. Every holiday update has added permanent new fixtures to the game and the Lost Shores added a new area and dungeon as the SF patch for Prophecies did. Now we have Wintersday, that has more content than any of the GW Wintersdays and the Jan and Feb update that are supposed to be an entire expansions worth of stuff.

Yes, GW was amazing. Over 7k hours I would say I had my fun and got my money’s worth. But I’m not sure it’s reasonable to compare the number of activities and options in a game that had over half a decade to build on itself to one that is still less than six months old.

Takes max one week to get to 80 and it’s even possible to do it 1-3 days, lol.

We’re not all working adults with families. I work full time but still get more time to enjoy this game and leveling is VERY fast, not too fast tho, it’s perfect. Also leveling is one of the best parts of the game – exploration, massive world, events etc all with the amazing graphics just make it great.

Grind for gear ? I’ve had 4 different exotics sets + weapons/jewelry since 1 month after release. Ascended gear is a blessing for me and quite easy to get. Like I said, not everyone has 2 hours per week to enjoy this game…Never in other games I have been ‘maxed out’ gear wise so fast and I do not worry about gear at all, only about skins etc. I like it this way. Usually in other games there’s always some guy with extra 348 +12 stats on his gear that takes 2 years to get, not here tho.

GW2 is a better version of GW1 and things will only get better.

AcidicVision.5498:

But I’m not sure it’s reasonable to compare the number of activities and options in a game that had over half a decade to build on itself to one that is still less than six months old……

… and designed by the same people, with the experience of the previous game.

JaironKalach.4938:

As far as I know, noone is constantly on the forums for any other MMO released in the past year complaining about how they miss GW1 and that game should be like GW1.

Thats absolutely true.
But when i buy age of conan, i dont expect guildwars.
When i buy guildwars 2 i do expect a bit of gw1

Alipius.4783:

JaironKalach.4938:

GW2 isn’t GW1. So why do people who love GW1 so much feel the need to complain over and over again about this fact?

Anet

Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1

Q.E.D.

I enjoyed that response very much.

Okay, but seriously. Clearly, that couldn’t apply to everyone. They did, however, take everything I loved. And my brother and sister-in-law. Maybe it was just us? Maybe people are hanging too much emotion on that statement? But, at least I understand why. My only hope is that after a few more months of grieving, you will be able to move on with your lives and find joy in something again, even if it’s not GW2.

I really feel like I’m being deliberately funneled to that Gem Store – that the game is designed to force me to either grind my kitten off, or buy gems. Does this feel dirty to anyone else?

All valid points but this right here hit home for me. Many of us felt that GW2 would be the one game that would change many things in coming mmos, we felt it would really be the place to go for fun to be finally able to farm without limitations to get the things we needed if we worked for it, but now with all the nerfs and the herding to the store I’ve become so disgusted I can’t even login anymore. When it gets to the point to where greed is the only driving force behind the game then it’s not for players like me either.

What I typically do in a game is explore, gather and craft. While exploring I’d like to actually get rewarded for finding treasure chests that drop something other then crap a skritt would find on the roadside.

While farming and exploring I’d actually like to get rewarded for putting together my own armor set of over 200% mf and actually FIND something worth writing home at Divinity’s Reach about. Not some trash.

While crafting I’d like to actually sell something for more then just copper. There are no rare crafting recipes to find or ones that everyone and their cow can’t go out and get. Once made these become just as useless as any blue or green.

The other thing that gets me is there’s absolutely no reason to get anything other then basic/master salvaging kits. There’s this huge gap. fine, masterwork really don’t give you anything special off of blues or greens so why have them in the game at all? why have the ability to salvage blues or greens if that’s all you’re going to get is crap anyway?

And finally, I’m not someone who played GW1 but I’ve heard many a great thing about it. I understand completely where you are coming from. The game I came from suddenly was bought out by another owner and then when that occurred they put in charge of the project a marine biologist. The same thing has happened here. many of us have noticed that there was some execs put in charge of the financial side of this game in june and since then we’ve had DR, abysmal drop rates, lowered globs of ecto rates, and events don’t drop a thing anymore from chests.

It’s sad really. I guess they really don’t want people to play.

JaironKalach.4938:

Alipius.4783:

JaironKalach.4938:

GW2 isn’t GW1. So why do people who love GW1 so much feel the need to complain over and over again about this fact?

Anet

Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1

Q.E.D.

They did, however, take everything I loved. And my brother and sister-in-law.

no offense, but this tells a lot. I know people that are still sticked to the game, and most of them are ~30 or more,. We don’t love the same things in a game.
What I loved in Gw1, and what many “HC” players (for what it means…) loved, was what was different for other games, the intrinsic mecanisms. In comparison Gw2 is oversimplified, and boring (even for the story part…).
Fortunately some still like it, but most don’t.

Alipius.4783:

AcidicVision.5498:

But I’m not sure it’s reasonable to compare the number of activities and options in a game that had over half a decade to build on itself to one that is still less than six months old……

… and designed by the same people, with the experience of the previous game.

Experience cannot eliminate the man hours required to get things designed, implemented and tested. Experience can help you streamline your processes and find/remove blockage or un-needed dependencies. But the work still takes time to do and will never be done as fast as some players can consume it.

While you are hunting for things to keep you busy now, a player that picks up the game in three years will be overwhelmed and think they will never catch up to early adopters.

Here is the problem I think. It is VERY hard to have multiple builds on one character. This was never an issue in GW1. It was very easy to switch things up on the same character.

Now I really think GW2 has MORE potential for diverse character builds. The issue is that there is no easy way to switch things up OUTSIDE of sPvP. Once we can load/save traits it will be better.

Also I wish that PvE stats were set up the same as in sPvP. An amulet/jewel holds all stats. If that was somehow an option for us to do, that would make it very easy to swap builds. All you have to do is swap out two items.

Alipius.4783:

They did, however, take everything I loved. And my brother and sister-in-law.

no offense, but this tells a lot. I know people that are still sticked to the game, and most of them are ~30 or more,. We don’t love the same things in a game.
What I loved in Gw1, and what many “HC” players (for what it means…) loved, was what was different for other games, the intrinsic mecanisms. In comparison Gw2 is oversimplified, and boring (even for the story part…).
Fortunately some still like it, but most don’t.

ROFLMKO… I think I was just called old. ;-)

It’s interesting to me that you find GW2 to be oversimplified. I found GW1 to be oversimplified. PvE was a complete joke. Get your heroes together, grab a variation on Sabway or the later flavors and then destroy it. Dungeons were all SC builds or nothing. PvP was the only place there was a real variation. And there was still an awful lot of FotM at work until you got to the truly competitive ranks.

Added to that, the game fostered a community that was in a lot of ways less about community and more about finding someone to look down on. That’s the one thing I don’t miss about GW1 at all.

In any event, I’m not sure I agree that “most don’t.” But let’s not bother with “look at the posts” “not a statistical sample” “players are leaving” “depends where you look” arguments that go nowhere, and just pretend we did.

GW1 was incredibly simplified compared to GW2.

JaironKalach.4938:

Alipius.4783:

They did, however, take everything I loved. And my brother and sister-in-law.

no offense, but this tells a lot. I know people that are still sticked to the game, and most of them are ~30 or more,. We don’t love the same things in a game.
What I loved in Gw1, and what many “HC” players (for what it means…) loved, was what was different for other games, the intrinsic mecanisms. In comparison Gw2 is oversimplified, and boring (even for the story part…).
Fortunately some still like it, but most don’t.

ROFLMKO… I think I was just called old. ;-)

It’s interesting to me that you find GW2 to be oversimplified. I found GW1 to be oversimplified. PvE was a complete joke. Get your heroes together, grab a variation on Sabway or the later flavors and then destroy it. Dungeons were all SC builds or nothing. PvP was the only place there was a real variation. And there was still an awful lot of FotM at work until you got to the truly competitive ranks.

Added to that, the game fostered a community that was in a lot of ways less about community and more about finding someone to look down on. That’s the one thing I don’t miss about GW1 at all.

In any event, I’m not sure I agree that “most don’t.” But let’s not bother with “look at the posts” “not a statistical sample” “players are leaving” “depends where you look” arguments that go nowhere, and just pretend we did.

That’s true, but it was at the end of the game… And even then, you had a choice, you could make other builds, and play with your brain, because the mecanisms were there. In GW2, you don’t have any choice :/

GW1 was incredibly simplified compared to GW2.

Again, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_mechanics#Combat.

Alipius.4783:

JaironKalach.4938:

Alipius.4783:

They did, however, take everything I loved. And my brother and sister-in-law.

no offense, but this tells a lot. I know people that are still sticked to the game, and most of them are ~30 or more,. We don’t love the same things in a game.
What I loved in Gw1, and what many “HC” players (for what it means…) loved, was what was different for other games, the intrinsic mecanisms. In comparison Gw2 is oversimplified, and boring (even for the story part…).
Fortunately some still like it, but most don’t.

ROFLMKO… I think I was just called old. ;-)

It’s interesting to me that you find GW2 to be oversimplified. I found GW1 to be oversimplified. PvE was a complete joke. Get your heroes together, grab a variation on Sabway or the later flavors and then destroy it. Dungeons were all SC builds or nothing. PvP was the only place there was a real variation. And there was still an awful lot of FotM at work until you got to the truly competitive ranks.

Added to that, the game fostered a community that was in a lot of ways less about community and more about finding someone to look down on. That’s the one thing I don’t miss about GW1 at all.

In any event, I’m not sure I agree that “most don’t.” But let’s not bother with “look at the posts” “not a statistical sample” “players are leaving” “depends where you look” arguments that go nowhere, and just pretend we did.

That’s true, but it was at the end of the game… And even then, you had a choice, you could make other builds, and play with your brain, because the mecanisms were there. In GW2, you don’t have any choice :/

Yes you do, again this is just your own confirmation bias talking. This is grass is greener syndrome at it’s finest. You THINK GW1 had more choice than GW2, because that is what you have already decided.

Reality will not intrude on this delusion that you have imposed on yourself.

Ahlen.7591:

Alipius.4783:

JaironKalach.4938:

Alipius.4783:

They did, however, take everything I loved. And my brother and sister-in-law.

no offense, but this tells a lot. I know people that are still sticked to the game, and most of them are ~30 or more,. We don’t love the same things in a game.
What I loved in Gw1, and what many “HC” players (for what it means…) loved, was what was different for other games, the intrinsic mecanisms. In comparison Gw2 is oversimplified, and boring (even for the story part…).
Fortunately some still like it, but most don’t.

ROFLMKO… I think I was just called old. ;-)

It’s interesting to me that you find GW2 to be oversimplified. I found GW1 to be oversimplified. PvE was a complete joke. Get your heroes together, grab a variation on Sabway or the later flavors and then destroy it. Dungeons were all SC builds or nothing. PvP was the only place there was a real variation. And there was still an awful lot of FotM at work until you got to the truly competitive ranks.

Added to that, the game fostered a community that was in a lot of ways less about community and more about finding someone to look down on. That’s the one thing I don’t miss about GW1 at all.

In any event, I’m not sure I agree that “most don’t.” But let’s not bother with “look at the posts” “not a statistical sample” “players are leaving” “depends where you look” arguments that go nowhere, and just pretend we did.

That’s true, but it was at the end of the game… And even then, you had a choice, you could make other builds, and play with your brain, because the mecanisms were there. In GW2, you don’t have any choice :/

Yes you do, again this is just your own confirmation bias talking. This is grass is greener syndrome at it’s finest. You THINK GW1 had more choice than GW2, because that is what you have already decided.

Reality will not intrude on this delusion that you have imposed on yourself.

Omg. Take a pen.
A sheet.
And write what is involved in the combats in Gw1, and then in Gw2.
Compare.
Post again.

Edit : let’s say it’s done.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combat
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_mechanics#Combat

So, what’s new? Auto-attack. Yep m’am.
What do we lose?

While all professions have the ability to heal themselves, the strongest healing comes from dedicated healing characters, usually Monks or Ritualists.

Many effects can modify a character’s statistics. Enchantments provide benefits to their targets, such as added defensive abilities or extra Energy. Hexes hinder their targets in various ways. Conditions are a generic set of ailments that can be applied by many skills; many cause Health degeneration over time. A few more exotic types of modifiers exist. Most successful teams have ways to remove Hexes and Conditions from their members; many also have ways to remove Enchantments to break down enemy defenses.

The element of time is quite important. Skills with a long activation time cost a player a great deal of time and are likely to get interrupted; skills that slow opponents or speed up allies are among the most useful in the game.

And I’m the dellusional one.

And if you dare telling me the new wiki is not complete yet, feel free to contribute.

OP, I hear you loud and clear. I also feel this way. I log on to GW2 now mainly to do my dailies, and thats about it. I want to love GW2, I really do, but with all the bugs, the lies, ignoring the pleas for help, hacking, botting, and the self admitted poor decisions by the devs, I just can’t. I am not even excited about wintersday. They have disappointed me so MANY times, I just don’t really care anymore. I think I will spend most of wintersday in GW1 with my heros. I miss them……

Wow.

It seems there always will be unhappy folks, unrelated to the quality of the game.

You can level to max in a week playing casualy – “it takes ages to level”
You can get exotics from TP for the reward of couple dungeon runs – “hellish grind for high-end gear”
You can ignore legendary, cause it is just a cosmetic skin, not some OP one-shot thingie – “mad grind cause I really have to get meself a legendary to play this game”

It is as if some people find their whole life purpose in complaining.

I honestly dont want to judge people, I really hate doing it but I keep reading these kind of threads of how I loved Gw1 and Gw2 is nothing like it that puzzles me so much because I find them really very close to each other and then while reading on post I read a massive contradiction.

Op you said " I’ve logged thousands of hours over several years in Tyria, Cantha, and Elona." so far so good then critizised GW2 over taking too long to reach max level, specifically you said “It takes forever (especially if you’re a working adult with family). I can’t level a new character from 1 to max in a week or less like I could in Guild Wars.”

I cant help feeling you’re just trying hard to hate Gw2 here. playing 1000s of hours in Gw1 was okey but playing more then a week in Gw2 is not?

I am also curious what did you spend your time in Gw1 doing? just PvP? you never crafted any of the armor set available? cause if you did how was farming for those armor sets any different then farming for crafting in Gw2? You have exactly the same options open to you in both games. Either farm the materials directly or earn the money and buy the materials required.

Gear grind… sure its there if you want it, but you can just dress up in masterworks or lets say rare and still be able to tackle any content. You dont have to have the best gear unless you want to have the best gear. That include WvW. Honestly been succesfully running WvW without a full exotic set since day 1. And my kill to death ratio is like 10 kills to 1 death.

You have to farm 24/7 to get mediocure gear from TP? 1g and you can get a full rare set. Not sure if you consider it mediocure but A MF tuned Rare set enables me to play any PvE content without dieing. A correctly tuned Rare set (3 prieces are exotic) is what I use for Dungeons or WvW (not because the MF tuned rare set isnt good enough but because I just want to be efficient for team content as to not penalize my team) You can easily make 1g in 1 hour if you want no 24/7 required.

The Economy is entirely player driven. If something you want to buy costs way too much its not because Arenanet tempered with anything its because whoever decided to sell that item felt he deserved the amount of money asking for. If gold was more easy to aquire things would simply cost more. Let me illustrate, lets take corrupted lodestones. Average time to aquire a lodestone is probably somewhere in between 45 mins to 1hr 15 mins. An hour of farming you can get around 1g so how much do you put such a lodestone for sale? more then 1g or you’re wasting your time. Now lets consider if arenanet increased the gold aquiring rare and now it was possible to make 5g in 1hr. Does that mean now with 5 gold you can buy 5 lodestones? nope it means that someone who spend 1hr farming lodestones will sell lodestones at 5g+ Of course they could just increase the drop rate but if they do then no one will buy lodestones people will just farm them. Also if they increase the drop rate Crafting a Corrupted weapon would mean a couple of hours of work rather then a week long activity like it is now. Same thing happened in Gw1 anyway. If you wanted to craft Vabbi armor what would you do ? either try your luck with hidden chests which would take you more then 1hr per diamond / saphire or farm the 15 plat required per diamond which again took longer then 1hr per diamond / saphire. did gw1 cater for botters because of that?

I could go on but really many things you mention were exactly the same in Gw1 as they are in Gw2 why was their implementation in Gw1 okey but bad in Gw2?

Alipius.4783:

Omg. Take a pen.
A sheet.
And write what is involved in the combats in Gw1, and then in Gw2.
Compare.
Post again.

GW1: Make build. Mash buttons.
GW2: Make build. Mash buttons. Dodge. Mash buttons. Swap weapons. Mash buttons.

So…. I’m curious. When you write down on paper, what does your list look like?

While all professions have the ability to heal themselves, the strongest healing comes from dedicated healing characters, usually Monks or Ritualists.

Correct, no dedicated healers.

Many effects can modify a character’s statistics. Enchantments provide benefits to their targets, such as added defensive abilities or extra Energy. Hexes hinder their targets in various ways. Conditions are a generic set of ailments
that can be applied by many skills; many cause Health degeneration over time. A few more exotic types of modifiers exist. Most successful teams have ways to remove Hexes and Conditions from their members; many also have ways to remove Enchantments to break down enemy defenses.

Buffs, boons, virtues, conditions. Hexes don’t have an equivalent, it seems, as a separate mechanic.

The element of time is quite important. Skills with a long activation time cost a player a great deal of time and are likely to get interrupted; skills that slow opponents or speed up allies are among the most useful in the game.

These things are all present in GW2. I’ve had slow skills interrupted a number of times. Snares and speed buffs are also both present in the game mechanics.

Additionally, GW2 has added weapon swapping which can switch a skill set and have other effects such as adrenaline gain and dodging.

here is where i find myself:

i liked GW, i played it on and off for years.
it was an okay game, nothing spectacular, just okay, good enough to play now and then.

now GW2 is out, i also like it, i may play it on and off for years.
it is an okay game, nothing spectacular, just okay, good enough to play for now.

that is the only comparison that counts for me.

I honestly think people who feel gw2 combat is a lot more limiting then gw1 combat underestimate it gw2 combat a lot.

I played a necro in both and my gw2 necro with the one single build I have can replicate about 80% of my gw1 necro skills. Yes its like when I play gw2 I have around 120 gw1 skills on my action bar. Thats because gw1 skill were very specialized. Take death nova for example, you cast it on an ally, if that ally dies death nova does damage + inflicts bleeding to adjects foe. Thats all it does, there is no other way I can use it to make it do something else.

Now lets take GW2 mark of blood for example. This skill puts in an AOE mine, if an enemy steps in it explodes, foes in the area take damage and get bleeding, allies in the area get regen. So I can use this to replicate death nova, does same thing, but if I cast in on an allie who is engaging a foe that ally gets regen which essentially replicates a skill like blood bond. If I use it while I am engaged in combat I get regen essentially doing what blood renwal would do in Gw1. I could use it on my minions replicating skills in Gw1 designed to heal sevants like Blood of the master and verata’s Sacrifce. And this is just one skill used on its own.

Gw1 had a lot of options when you were setting up your build but while playing it you were extremely limited by the choices you made. Gw2 doesnt give you a lot of variety while building your build but gives you a lot more flexibility in how you play that build a lot more in my opinion.

I think the point here, with respect to build variety is this:

In Guild Wars we had literally hundreds of skills to choose from, and could make a build using any skills from any two professions, which is a lot more possibilities than I care to try and count. you could take a team of 8 players, and actually make a Team build that synergized in very creative ways. One of the most satisfying things about the whole setup was making such complex, well-oiled machinery work together.

I really feel like I had far more options in Guild Wars. It’s such fun to get together with friends and work out a really synergistic team build and head over to HA, or UW, and watch it all come together.

We used to do things like FoW, but we’d put in fun limitations like “Prophecies skills only” which could sometimes induce interesting results.

We had a guild teambuild that we used in HA and AB, just for fun.

I do miss the PvP options of Guild Wars, that’s for sure.

Stuff like that is just not possible in GW2. Of course GW2 isn’t GW1. I didn’t expect it to be. However, I DID expect it to be better

Let me flip it around and argue the other direction, for a second.

While I think that individually, GW2 is on par with GW1 in options and complexity, it doesn’t seem as though there is a lot of place for team build synergy. The reason I ran modified Sabway when doing a Vanq run is because the different components on each of the heroes interacted in such a way as to boost the output beyond the individual contribution.

I only see interaction between builds in GW2 through combo fields, boons and conditions. Those are actually very limited.

Edit: Honest, I wrote this just as Chuo made his post.

Overall as a long-term GW1 player, I find myself agreeing with the OP. This doesn’t mean GW2 is a bad game; simply that it doesn’t appear to hold up to the long term fun that GW1 provided, at least for me. That said, I think people need to be careful to separate ‘what made GW1 great’ from ‘GW2 is automatically a bad game’ because the two don’t equate & I don’t think that’s what people are saying.

GW1 had long term goals that you could grind towards, but again were designed cooperatively, where items could be traded, where you could max out your given playstyle and still reap benefits symbiotically with those that preferred something different. GW2 has so much, especially around gear requirements, that is bound to the individual player that it not only stifles trade but prevents people from doing the thing (whatever that may be) in the game that they enjoy and do it well, and still reap those benefits. Selfishness & narcissism have won out over community.

It’s no coincidence that I got taken for a Drok’s run by a player who was grinding cash for some item they wanted. They were able to build up funds for trading with other players doing something they loved doing. GW2 just doesn’t offer anything like that flexibility. If you want X, you must do Y. Often a great deal of Y. If you don’t like Y, tough luck, sucks to be you. Hardly an improvement in game design. Hardly even following the vaunted Manifesto.

The active funneling to keep you poor and spend gems seems ill-considered, better relegated to Asian grind MMOs (and I sense NCsoft’s hand in that decision), and the over-emphasis on vertical progression & gear harks back to old MMO designs that have had their day & been superseded. In particular, GW1 made a superb decision to create true horizontal cooperative progression by capping at level 20 and creating significant party-based instanced content. It resulted in repeatable content that made the game fun long after you’d done all the Pavlovian dinging & skinner boxes you could stomach. The equivalents in GW2’s open world just don’t bear up under the same scrutiny & population variance. Good luck even attempting stuff solo that was designed for group content, and courtesy of eliminating all the skill variances, you can’t do neat edge cases like the 55-monk who could solo group content with player skill.

The days of a single MMO successfully appealing to all forms of playstyles appear to be gone. GW2 has plenty of plus points, particularly if you’re looking for the next raid or Pavlovian gear treadmill to consume. Sadly I’m not one of them, nor do I particularly wish to get onto (again) a loot conveyor belt that has ‘try the cash shop’ at the end of it.

AcidicVision.5498:

Rose tinted glasses…
Yes, GW was amazing. Over 7k hours I would say I had my fun and got my money’s worth. But I’m not sure it’s reasonable to compare the number of activities and options in a game that had over half a decade to build on itself to one that is still less than six months old.

Anyway,

A lot of you have made some good points. This, in particular, makes sense.

That said, I’m not really complaining about the quantity of things to do, or lack thereof, as compared to Guild Wars. I’m more disappointed in the entire direction the philosophy of ArenaNet seems to have taken – and by comparing the two games I feel I can identify some of what’s bothering me.

I havent yet, however, heard a longtime GW fan explain what’s better about GW2, and why they love it even more than GW (which is what I hoped would be the case when they announced GW2). The build/trait discussion so far has been interesting, but not convincing at all.

Is there anyone who absolutely loved GW, and loves GW2 even more? Can you tell me what I’m missing?

AcidicVision.5498:

Rose tinted glasses. If you look back at the first GW, it launched with precious little content.

It’s weird, I played GW1 a lot more hours per day, took around 7-8 toons through the story before Factions ever came out. It took me a good 4 years of relatively intense playing to get tired and take a break. I started about a month and a half after launch.

In GW2, I only took one toon to 80, took my time but did all hearts and poi and vistas and skill points… and I’m entirely burnt out.

I can’t explain it. There’s just something missing here. I’m not saying it’s a bad game, I recognize it’s a good game and it may win me over in 6 months or a year. But right now, GW1 has staying power for me personally and GW2 does not.

For PvE you only had the story and two “dungeons”. For PvP you had Arenas, GvG and HoH.

That’s actually a lot. For me, anyway. GW2 totally missed the boat with its pvp options so far, that’s for sure. Not sure what they were thinking.

Meret.5943:

I can’t explain it. There’s just something missing here.

It’s called growing up.

People change and things they loved yesterday now seem stale and boring. Not the game’s fault.

Great post. I read it with interest. One of the few intelligently written posts offering insight into gw2 flaws.

Two biggies that have bothered me since launch
- character design is too streamlined
- feels more and more like a f2play game trying to force you to use the gemstore

Its nice to hear from someone else who only has one 80. While I’d like to have a second 80, I just can’t be stuffed to take 2-3 weeks to level it. I really enjoyed levelling the first time, but the second feels like a chore.

Chuo.4238:

Is there anyone who absolutely loved GW, and loves GW2 even more? Can you tell me what I’m missing?

GW was my game for a good while of my life. I don’t know if I can come close to your 7k hours, but I’d like to think that I enjoyed all aspects of its content during the time I played. I loved the festivals, I loved the story line. I cheered when Rurik was killed. I laughed about Meloni and Koss. I’ve been through all the dungeons at least once. Vanq’d most regions, etc….

So, I hope I can say I qualify as having loved GW.

What do I love about GW2? I am reminded of the quote from the Lord of the Rings:

“It’s a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don’t keep your feet, there’s no knowing where you might be swept off to.”

I get frustrated if I try to play in a goal oriented (gear, levels, etc…) fashion. But I find that it is very enjoyable to just “step out the door” and be swept through the world.

I play a separate MMO for completely different reasons. There I am a “raider” and I play for that tight-knit team experience and really close community (my “kinship.”)

But, in the end, I think the answer to your question is, “You may be missing nothing.” This game may just not have the features that you will enjoy. I think that’s okay. Life moves on.

The thing I think most GW1 players feel they are missing but can’t put their hands on is the meta and how ingrained it was in to all parts of the game.

The simplest way to put it is, in GW2 you make your character to function in the game as a whole. In GW1 you made your character to function for a situation. In GW2 changing around your build is a novelty. In GW it was a requirement.

That meta game evolved three times.

Once when they added secondary profession change on demand (originally you had to take on a quest chain to change).

Adding Heroes.

Allowing 7 heroes in a party.

Now you could min-max, tweak, optimize, and customize your character and entire party for any possible thing in the game. You could micromanage 64 skills, cooldowns and three heroes positioning to create back or front lines.

In GW2 pick two weapons your character can use, a random heal, and random utilities and an elite. You can still burn through most content and even stumble your way through dungeons. You could’t do that in GW1. If you tried, it would mercilessly destroy you and not give a single kitten about hurting your feelings for it.

Die on the boss of a story mission or in an elite dungeon? GTF back to town and don’t come back until you know what you’re doing, and when you do, you’re starting over! This made you plan. It’s why we would have to wait a min or two before entering missions so someone could “change their skills”. Occasionally you would notice things are harder than they should be and it would turn out one person forgot to adjust their traits. Because thats how important the meta was and how much of an impact one person could have on performance. Traits could mean success or failure. In GW2, they mean something goes a little slower or a little faster.

Thats what changed and what people are missing. The meta game in GW was a game in and of itself. The meta in GW2 is totally inconsequential.