Guild Wars 2

Reaching the end of this game, i’ve realized that Anet has done worse than Blizzard’s Diablo 3 in terms of loot.

I can spend all day doing dungeons and farming and find nothing worth any value. Even blizzard notice that having a end game with low drop chance on items is a bad game design.

Spending large amounts of time attempting to hunt items with no avail is turning me further and further away from the game…

D3 is linear this game is about as non linear as they come. End of story. Did it ever occur to you that some people play this game for fun and not loot?

The thread is about loot. If you are not here to discuss loot, then you’ve entered the wrong thread. Please note the X in the upper right hand corner of your screen.

Loot really doesn’t effect stats that much, so it is really for appearance only. Also, Anet has mentioned several times that this game is fun-centric, not reward-centric. If you are running dungeons all day for the loot, you are doing it wrong. Since you were so kind as to point out the x at the top of the screen for those that disagree with you, might I return the favor. The unsub button for the game is located….. umm wait….there is no sub for this game! You can simply stop playing if you are not enjoying yourself!

D3 is a game entirely about loot, GW2 is not, there is no comparision.

OdinBudd.5298:

Loot really doesn’t effect stats that much, so it is really for appearance only. Also, Anet has mentioned several times that this game is fun-centric, not reward-centric. If you are running dungeons all day for the loot, you are doing it wrong. Since you were so kind as to point out the x at the top of the screen for those that disagree with you, might I return the favor. The unsub button for the game is located….. umm wait….there is no sub for this game! You can simply stop playing if you are not enjoying yourself!

The thing is, I decided to spend money on the game so I am invested. I don’t see how people can use the arguement, “There is no sub!”. Granted there is no sub, but I did pay for the game.

I never implied that loot had to be stat loot? Lodestones and cores are at such a low drop rate that they are not worth farming. Who are you to determine what is fun to me? To me, fun is putting time into a run and receiving these kinds of items.

Dungeon loot is being buffed, devs have said as much.

Lorana.2468:

Dungeon loot is being buffed, devs have said as much.

Source? All Anet has ever said was, “They are looking into it.”

I am in no position to determine what is fun to you, you are 100% correct on this. It is none of my business what you enjoy and I have no right to tell you what you enjoy is wrong or bad. What I am simply trying to say is that Anet has stated that this game is not reward centered and that I don’t see them changing their minds. I could be wrong here, for the sake of your enjoyment I hope I am, but chances are this game will be “unfarmable” for those who enjoy such things.

a) Your thread title does not include the word ‘loot’, so forgive us for not immediately assuming we could only talk about loot here.

b) I don’t play this game for loot. It’s cool, sure, but it’s not what brings me back every evening. Each to their own play-style, but I think it’s kind of unfortunate if all gamers are expected to only play for the quest of getting bigger pluses on their virtual items.

You’re comparing apples to oranges. Diablo 3 is an ARPG who’s only endgame is the grind for loot (and apparently Paragon levels, haven’t bothered to log back in recently). Guild Wars 2 on the other hand, puts equipment loot in the back seat. Instead, you’ve got many different types of end game to enjoy.

In your above example you use Lodestones and cores, they’re not worth farming. That’s fairly true, but, if they suddenly increased their drop rate their value would decrease. Then, it wouldn’t be worth farming for a different reason and certain end game things would be accessed a bit too quickly/easily.

Now, if you ask me, they should add 3 random drops to the last boss of a dungeon, each one being masterwork or higher, with a good chance for rares and a small chance for exotics. I think there needs to be that rush when killing a boss, hoping to get good loot.

Cynical.2097:

Lorana.2468:

Dungeon loot is being buffed, devs have said as much.

Source? All Anet has ever said was, “They are looking into it.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/How-logn-until-the-Lt-exploit-is-fixed-in-AC-explorable/page/1

OdinBudd.5298:

I am in no position to determine what is fun to you, you are 100% correct on this. It is none of my business what you enjoy and I have no right to tell you what you enjoy is wrong or bad. What I am simply trying to say is that Anet has stated that this game is not reward centered and that I don’t see them changing their minds. I could be wrong here, for the sake of your enjoyment I hope I am, but chances are this game will be “unfarmable” for those who enjoy such things.

They want the game to be unfarmable, but the only options for anything “endgame” require items that must be farmed. These items don’t simply come to a player.

Cynical.2097:

Reaching the end of this game, i’ve realized that Anet has done worse than Blizzard’s Diablo 3 in terms of loot.

I can spend all day doing dungeons and farming and find nothing worth any value. Even blizzard notice that having a end game with low drop chance on items is a bad game design.

Spending large amounts of time attempting to hunt items with no avail is turning me further and further away from the game…

Diablo 3 suffered a great deal because the fundamental expectation behind Diablo is that it’s a loot pinata. This is what Diablo is all about. This is what every single Diablo clone has ever been all about, from Titan Quest to Borderlands. You play Diablo so that you can hit things until they die and shiny things fountain out of their corpses.

The basic problem with Diablo 3 is that it stopped being a loot pinata once you started approaching the more difficult areas of the game. We can talk about the viability of its revamped stat/ability system, but the core of the matter is this: You got your loot from the Auction House. Not from random drops. The Auction House.

The implementation of the Auction House created a sense of staid, stolid predictability to a game played primarily for its slot-machine unpredictability. You play Torchlight, Diablo 2 and Titan Quest for the loot. Because you want to kill bosses and farm areas and see what kind of haul you drag in. Once we had an Auction House, all this disappeared, and all we did was farm loot so we could sell it for gold so we could save that gold to buy exactly the right item we wanted. There was no sense of chance. No addicting gamble. No loot pinata.

Therefore, fundamentally, your comparison between Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 is a false analogy, because Guild Wars 2 is not played primarily for loot, at all. It was never advertised as a game that depends on random loot mechanics. It is not a franchise known for its shiny loot. Nothing in the history of ANet or Guild Wars suggests that this is the sort of game you should play if you want to trick yourself out on phat lootz.

Is there a problem with loot not being all that rewarding? Arguably, yes. And the devs are working on that. We just got the addition to karma in dungeons, but expect to see better loot on world bosses, dungeons, mini dungeons and chests.

Your basic premise is flawed though. Comparing Diablo 3 to Guild Wars 2 on the basis of loot is a false analogy, for the reasons mentioned above.

Sick of people complaining about dungeon loot…

It’s a great way to make money and one of the best bets to get exhotics. The loot in this game is completely fine. Yet another thread on the GW2 Forums that complains about something not being there when it indeed is….

Yep. Loot kinda sucks. I think ANet know this already though, but that’s no reason not to keep pestering them about it.

Having a few more armor/weapon skins be in reach of casual players so they don’t just run around in Worn Scale Armor throughout the entire game might be a thing. Not remove the high-tier, expensive content to save up for, but have higher cosmetic diversity within a hand’s reach.

Eveningstar.6940:

Cynical.2097:

Reaching the end of this game, i’ve realized that Anet has done worse than Blizzard’s Diablo 3 in terms of loot.

I can spend all day doing dungeons and farming and find nothing worth any value. Even blizzard notice that having a end game with low drop chance on items is a bad game design.

Spending large amounts of time attempting to hunt items with no avail is turning me further and further away from the game…

Diablo 3 suffered a great deal because the fundamental expectation behind Diablo is that it’s a loot pinata. This is what Diablo is all about. This is what every single Diablo clone has ever been all about, from Titan Quest to Borderlands. You play Diablo so that you can hit things until they die and shiny things fountain out of their corpses.

The basic problem with Diablo 3 is that it stopped being a loot pinata once you started approaching the more difficult areas of the game. We can talk about the viability of its revamped stat/ability system, but the core of the matter is this: You got your loot from the Auction House. Not from random drops. The Auction House.

The implementation of the Auction House created a sense of staid, stolid predictability to a game played primarily for its slot-machine unpredictability. You play Torchlight, Diablo 2 and Titan Quest for the loot. Because you want to kill bosses and farm areas and see what kind of haul you drag in. Once we had an Auction House, all this disappeared, and all we did was farm loot so we could sell it for gold so we could save that gold to buy exactly the right item we wanted. There was no sense of chance. No addicting gamble. No loot pinata.

Therefore, fundamentally, your comparison between Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 is a false analogy, because Guild Wars 2 is not played primarily for loot, at all. It was never advertised as a game that depends on random loot mechanics. It is not a franchise known for its shiny loot. Nothing in the history of ANet or Guild Wars suggests that this is the sort of game you should play if you want to trick yourself out on phat lootz.

Is there a problem with loot not being all that rewarding? Arguably, yes. And the devs are working on that. We just got the addition to karma in dungeons, but expect to see better loot on world bosses, dungeons, mini dungeons and chests.

Your basic premise is flawed though. Comparing Diablo 3 to Guild Wars 2 on the basis of loot is a false analogy, for the reasons mentioned above.

I do agree with everything that you have presented, but it does not change that fact that not having something tangible rewards at “endgame” created a large issue for Diablo 3 as it is coming towards in GW2.

Cynical.2097:

They want the game to be unfarmable, but the only options for anything “endgame” require items that must be farmed. These items don’t simply come to a player.

I challenge you to find one quote to back this up.

They never said they want it ’unfarmable" (is that even a word?)

Cynical.2097:

Reaching the end of this game, i’ve realized that Anet has done worse than Blizzard’s Diablo 3 in terms of loot.

I could care less what loot here is like, compared to Diablo 3. I am not having a problem making enough loot in GW2, so who cares about the other game? If you prefer their loot drops go play that game.

Cynical.2097:

I can spend all day doing dungeons and farming and find nothing worth any value. Even blizzard notice that having a end game with low drop chance on items is a bad game design.

If you can’t make money doing dungeons, and making money is important to you {insert drum roll here} ……… then stop doing dungeons. Who cares what Blizzard thinks?

Cynical.2097:

Spending large amounts of time attempting to hunt items with no avail is turning me further and further away from the game…

I can’t say anything more than what has been said in other threads before. Some people want stuff handed to them on a silver platter with little effort and lots of people want to just farm for days and days doing the same stuff over and over. It seems to me the that GW2 does not cater much to either of those types of players.

Maybe you could find another MMO that suits your vision of loot drops much better.

ANet even specifically stated that they aren’t against farming, they are all for farming. Someone else can find the quote because I am going to bed.. it was a response to one of the QQ threads concerning diminishing returns.

the difference between d3 and gw2 loot system is that you can get the best possible loot, exotic 80’s, using a number of different ways.

you can craft them, use the auction house, find them, buy with with karma, buy with dungeon tokens.

where as in d3, the only way to get them is through random loot, or auction house that’s tied in to the rmah.

Raven Paradox.1860:

Sick of people complaining about dungeon loot…

It’s a great way to make money and one of the best bets to get exhotics. The loot in this game is completely fine. Yet another thread on the GW2 Forums that complains about something not being there when it indeed is….

Funny that even GW2 dev seem to think otherwise.

Cynical.2097:

The thread is about loot. If you are not here to discuss loot, then you’ve entered the wrong thread. Please note the X in the upper right hand corner of your screen.

This game is not about loot, if you need loot please note the uninstall option in the game folder.

Eveningstar.6940:

Cynical.2097:

Reaching the end of this game, i’ve realized that Anet has done worse than Blizzard’s Diablo 3 in terms of loot.

I can spend all day doing dungeons and farming and find nothing worth any value. Even blizzard notice that having a end game with low drop chance on items is a bad game design.

Spending large amounts of time attempting to hunt items with no avail is turning me further and further away from the game…

Diablo 3 suffered a great deal because the fundamental expectation behind Diablo is that it’s a loot pinata. This is what Diablo is all about. This is what every single Diablo clone has ever been all about, from Titan Quest to Borderlands. You play Diablo so that you can hit things until they die and shiny things fountain out of their corpses.

The basic problem with Diablo 3 is that it stopped being a loot pinata once you started approaching the more difficult areas of the game. We can talk about the viability of its revamped stat/ability system, but the core of the matter is this: You got your loot from the Auction House. Not from random drops. The Auction House.

The implementation of the Auction House created a sense of staid, stolid predictability to a game played primarily for its slot-machine unpredictability. You play Torchlight, Diablo 2 and Titan Quest for the loot. Because you want to kill bosses and farm areas and see what kind of haul you drag in. Once we had an Auction House, all this disappeared, and all we did was farm loot so we could sell it for gold so we could save that gold to buy exactly the right item we wanted. There was no sense of chance. No addicting gamble. No loot pinata.

Therefore, fundamentally, your comparison between Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 is a false analogy, because Guild Wars 2 is not played primarily for loot, at all. It was never advertised as a game that depends on random loot mechanics. It is not a franchise known for its shiny loot. Nothing in the history of ANet or Guild Wars suggests that this is the sort of game you should play if you want to trick yourself out on phat lootz.

Is there a problem with loot not being all that rewarding? Arguably, yes. And the devs are working on that. We just got the addition to karma in dungeons, but expect to see better loot on world bosses, dungeons, mini dungeons and chests.

Your basic premise is flawed though. Comparing Diablo 3 to Guild Wars 2 on the basis of loot is a false analogy, for the reasons mentioned above.

This deserves to be quoted again.

Diablo 3 is about playing to get loot. In some ways, Diablo was the precursor to the kind of MMO popularized by WoW, in which the goal is more to grind gear than have fun. Guild Wars 2 goes in the opposite direction – the goal is to have fun, not to acquire gear. Items are more a side effect of doing everything else in the game.

In other words, if you can’t enjoy GW2 without being rewarded for it, maybe the game is not for you. Just as someone is not rewarded by going to see a movie, not by anything other than the experience itself.

Diablo 3 keeps getting better every patch.

Can we say the same for GW2?

Cynical.2097:

The thread is about loot. If you are not here to discuss loot, then you’ve entered the wrong thread. Please note the X in the upper right hand corner of your screen.

This game is not about loot. If you play this game for loot you have purchased the wrong game. Please note the X in the upper right hand corner of your screen.

Loot makes a game fun. GW2 is by far my favorite game; however, look the games that are created around the idea of loot collection and how succesful they are

D3, borderlands, mass effect, torchlight, etc etc. There is something people just love about finding new items that keeps them addicted.

I’ve said it many times before, increasing loot drops after level 75 would do WONDERS for this game.

So when you hit level 80, you were magically granted a full set of exotics?

It’s not ArenaNet’s fault that you rushed to cap and immediately dumped your gold into having the best gear in the game instantly.

I don’t think the problem stems from loot I think the problem stems from the fact that there isn’t much else to do but to grind for loot.

Don’t try to argue with all the map completions and one-sided WvW battles either as things to do.

I’d just like to have a larger variety of fun skins at all levels of effort really.

Items that just require “some” effort to get don’t have to intentionally be scaled back in graphical design either. Stuff that people want to use for skins should be available regardless.

I’m forced to agree that loot as a reward is a necessary requirement. Playing for fun is great and all, but the “fun” has to engage players.

From a book I’m studying for a development class – “The Art of Game Design”, there is a section that discusses the internal value a game provides, and how if this value does not exist, players may find no reason to advance or continue.

Two examples of games are used, two platformers actually. Yes I know a console platformer is no comparison to an MMO, just like D3 is no comparison to GW2 in its style. Yet the comparison doesn’t lie between the type of games they are, but in what “internal value” they offer.

So, take the game Bubsy as the first example. In this game, players played a cat navigating through levels, battling enemies and collecting balls of yarn for points. Here’s the problem: the points you earn for collecting yarn serve no purpose other than to measure how many things you have collected. So what’s the players motivation, if the points serve no purpose? Basically to complete all the levels. One could say the motivation for replay would be to complete all the levels again, this time trying to earn the highest score. Again, where’s the reward? Well, if we use the “fun factor” I often here as the argument here, against loot as a reward, you would say its fun to run through levels to gain a higher score. So be it. While that may be fun the first few times, how sustainable is the motivation to continue playing for just the fun of earning a high score?

Another example used in the text is Sonic the Hedgehog. Similar console platform. You run through levels, avoid obstacles, defeat enemies, this time collecting rings. But the rings are more than just items to collect for a score. They protect you from enemies, and for every 100 rings, you gain a life. This “internal value” increases your chances for completing the levels.

One of the best quotes from this section is this:

“the value of the items and score in the game is a direct reflection of how much players care about succeeding in your game. By thinking about what the players really care about and why, you can often get insights about how your game can improve.

citation (inserted automatically when copying and pasting from Kindle)
Schell; Jesse (2008-08-01). The Art of Game Design: A book of lenses (Kindle Locations 1047-1049). Taylor & Francis. Kindle Edition. "

This is what we are really trying to get to the heart of, right? What keeps players playing? What do they care about in your game? What will make them feel like they ar e advancing and achieving.

Therefore my question is this: is “just having fun”, or “fun without loot gain” enough to keep players motivated? If not, what would give players something to care about, to strive for, to keep playing?

Its not enough to say “you’re playing it wrong”, or “you’re thinking about it wrong”, or “it wasn’t designed that way”. All games require this internal value to strive for, to feel stronger, to feel like you are accomplishing things, not just whittling away the hours.

Loot gain, stat gain, something that gives you more strength and power to survive, is the internal value in a game where you face off against players. To disregard that is simply ignoring what keeps us entertained. And when we are not entertained, we move on to the next potential source of entertainment.

Stated simply: TL,DR – I agree with OP. Loot is important to sustain players.

The inclusion of magic find alone proves they are somewhat in favour of farming

Rocksors.7830:

Cynical.2097:

The thread is about loot. If you are not here to discuss loot, then you’ve entered the wrong thread. Please note the X in the upper right hand corner of your screen.

This game is not about loot, if you need loot please note the uninstall option in the game folder.

If it is not about loot then why is there any in it at all? In fact send all yours my way if you don’t need it.

Also, love when players jump to the find another MMO conclusion just because someone has criticism towards the game. I am sure A-net really appreciates you sending business away.

slazzy, I agree with the principle of internal value, and the example comparison you give shows some great game design. However, I think by applying this argument to an MMO you’re discounting the social elements an online game introduces far too much. Re-playing content, changing your armour skin – those things are not the same as just beating a high score because there are other people involved. Show off you new armour combo to your guildmates; challenge yourself to beat an event in an emptier zone with just your three friends. These things do not rely on the value of your loot, they rely on the people you’re doing it with. An MMO cannot keep building ever upward (i.e. stats can’t get infinitely higher – causes balance issues!) – and yet it can’t have an end point, either, which a single player game can. Instead, we need something more than better gear to constitute endgame.

This is where the ‘massively’ in MMO comes in. Believe it or not, for a good social endgame, I think we have to make our own fun to some extent. But I study games from a social sciences angle, so maybe that’s just my perspective

Curuniel, that’s true. My argument doesn’t speak to the social elements at all. I agree there is a certain element of social fun in an MMO. Developing camaraderie with your guildmates, competition between friends, exploring together, these are all fun factors. But how much do we need to bring to the table with our imaginations, as opposed to what do the developers need to provide us to keep us interested, to give us that “must stay logged for one more hour” feeling?

Single-player games, multiplayer fps, mmos- they all have different reward systems to keep us going. But that reward system must be valid for the type of game. I think what I see as the common denominator in these discussion is MMOs require a loot-based reward system to keep people interested. Its not enough just to log in and have fun with your friends.

I see what you’re saying, but I think we as players can’t be expected to fill in the gaps too much. And that’s what I see in this game. If the carrot isn’t there to chase, well, we may create with our imaginations a social reward system to chase for awhile, but only for awhile.

Do I agree with a gear-grind that resets with every expansion? No. I don’t feel that’s fair. And yet, millions come back to it because, well, we are a curious bunch, and if there’s one thing the “other developer” does really well, its feed our curiosity.

Loot in MMOs is strongly related to progression and if GW2 wasn’t about progression, then why would it have levels?

The central problem with GW2 PvE is that loot and karma are scaled to the level of zones, so that you get much less in earlier zones (why?). That means that high level players can never progress by going back. When you couple that with GW2s frenetic levelling system that gives XP for everything and catapults you up to level 80 in a few weeks it’s a recipe for having large amounts of content that noone ever does.

Sure we play the game for fun. But, it would be a lot more fun if you could progress towards long term goals in all areas of the content, not just by grinding/farming in Cursed Shore.

Levels in GW2 just appear to be a throwback. The promise of GW2s design was to be something new and revolutionary. There is some of that, but in the end they caved into the temptation to follow the illusory crock of gold at the end of WoW’s rainbow rather than developing their own better ideas from Guild Wars 1.

Cynical.2097

The thread is about loot. If you are not here to discuss loot, then you’ve entered the wrong thread. Please note the X in the upper right hand corner of your screen.

guild wars 2 is about skills and looks. not really about loot.

roqoco.4053:

Loot in MMOs is strongly related to progression and if GW2 wasn’t about progression, then why would it have levels?

Guild Wars 2 having progression and being about progression are two different things. Having some progression is nice, but forcing you to always try to progress isn’t quite as nice (to everyone).

The central problem with GW2 PvE is that loot and karma are scaled to the level of zones, so that you get much less in earlier zones (why?). That means that high level players can never progress by going back. When you couple that with GW2s frenetic levelling system that gives XP for everything and catapults you up to level 80 in a few weeks it’s a recipe for having large amounts of content that noone ever does.

Because a down scaled 80 is way stronger than a level 10 not being down scaled. It’s even way stronger than a level 50 not being down scaled. Then, the events in lower zones tend to be easier to complete and much simpler. These combined mean GW2 needs level 80 focused areas for people to grind in. That and they need the level 80 areas to focused on in order for people to be able to easily access the grind. If everyone can farm everywhere, not many people will be farming in each specific area, making the farming spots far less effective.

Sure we play the game for fun. But, it would be a lot more fun if you could progress towards long term goals in all areas of the content, not just by grinding/farming in Cursed Shore.

You can gain a great deal doing dungeons and doing WvW, I do both to supplement my farming and it makes a very powerful and diverse end game experience.

Levels in GW2 just appear to be a throwback. The promise of GW2s design was to be something new and revolutionary. There is some of that, but in the end they caved into the temptation to follow the illusory crock of gold at the end of WoW’s rainbow rather than developing their own better ideas from Guild Wars 1.

It’s just short of revolutionary if you ask me—but it is still quite innovative and refreshing. Love the post and the respectable tone about it, I simply disagree is all :P.

I don’t mind this game being fun centric but, that will always lead to the question: If loot isn’t the point, why is it even harder to get it than games where it is the major motivator?

To be clear I am talking in general and not about top tier gear like legendarys. There will always have to a unicorn but, it shouldn’t start almost at the very bottom of everything.

Consider what happened to Diablo 3?

Okay.

With each successive patch, Diablo 3 has become a better game. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 will become a better game through it’s patch cycle.

Pretty straight-forward.

I can somewhat agree with what the OP is saying.. Considering at level 80 you can relatively easilly craft or purchase Exotic Gear from the BLTC you’re able to get yourself max stats.. Running around in game seeing a rare quality item drop is rather seldom and I don’t think I’ve ever seen an exotic drop. You functionally have a zero percent chance of any item dropping being even equivalent to your present gear, which results in it either being vendor or salvage fodder.

You’re able to relatively easily get to the stat cap on items, but drops never seem to ever get there. In GW1 while you could relatively quickly hit the stat cap on items, random item drops would also at least have the chance of being max damage, which would lead to you at least occassionally getting something worth equipping in place of your equipment.

In this game, all drops are effectively Worth Less than player’s present gear, and thus are in fact worthless.

diablo 3 was entirely designed around loot farming and the real money auction house. it also had a stupidly hard max difficulty… anyone remember the nonstop spam of the video with the child running from chickens as an example of diablo3 end game?

gw2 is designed so that people can actually have a life outside of video games and not be handicapped by lacking stats on their gear. their target audience is not the no lifer crowd who thinks they should win through sheer play time and farming superior gear.

i am not sure why people keep posting this type of thing. do you honestly expect them to go rework the entire game at this point?

complaining about this is even more senseless than the reasons people give.

fritz.. is it really so hard to understand that some people might want a gameplay experience of “Oh look, I just got a cool item” instead of “Oh look, I just got another item that I’m going to sell to the merchant”

fritz.. is it really so hard to understand that some people might want a gameplay experience of “Oh look, I just got a cool item” instead of “Oh look, I just got another item that I’m going to sell to the merchant”because at level 80, everything is either
1) Salvaged
2) Sold
or 3) Used in a crafting recipe.

fritz.. is it really so hard to understand that some people might want a gameplay experience of “Oh look, I just got a cool item” instead of “Oh look, I just got another item that I’m going to sell to the merchant”because at level 80, everything is either
1) Salvaged
2) Sold
or 3) Used in a crafting recipe.That’s not exactly fun or interesting… If you’ve got exotic equipment(and if you’re level 80, you do), you will never ever equip another drop for the entire length of time you play that character.. Ever.

There’s a subtle difference here though that you’re not realizing, OP. Guild Wars 2 is a good game. Diablo 3 is not.

do you think repeating yourself makes your point more effective in some way?

if that is the type of game you want then obviously this is not the game for you. complaining that this game does not suit your personal needs is not going to magically turn it into some other game, lol.

i personally am glad i wont have to worry about some endless gear grind at level 80.
that means i can go pvp when i have time to play and have fun, and when i have things to do in my life im not losing ground to the basement dwellers who can play video games 24/7.

also, there are a lot of games people play like this. there are dozens of fps style games where the entire end game is based around going and killing other players and not getting better loot.

also, back in the day when DAOC was in its prime, there was no loot farm. you got to level 50, you get your set of gear, and you went to pvp. that was it. no carrot on the stick. just go pvp because it was fun.

the game still has the reputation of one of the best pvp mmo ever made, hello.

D3 has about 12 hours of non-repeated content.

Guild Wars 2 has about 70+? hours of non-repeated content. Then add PvP, seasonal events and whatever other stuff ANET tosses in from time to time.

I understand you’re not praising D3 over GW2. But it seems like you’re comparing GW2 to the wrong game/genre.

I’m not asking to always get bigger/better stats, I’m asking for even the chance of maybe getting something of equivalency – which do not drop or have an impossibly low chance of dropping. Fritz – there’s still a large portion of the community that enjoys the concept of random drops, part of the reason why there was a large backlash against dungeons. By not even having the opportunity to get drops of parity to your own, you’re removing any impact and fun from loot. and I felt the need to respond(and respond again) because you obviously just do not get the point that I am, and others have made.

Fritz.5026:

i am not sure why people keep posting this type of thing. do you honestly expect them to go rework the entire game at this point?

Yes, they need to rework the entire loot system (and its relationship with crafting and karma) and if they are going to keep this kind of levelling system, which is really the root cause of the problem, long term, they need to find some way of making lower level content relevant to level capped players. Otherwise, they’ve just wasted 5 years creating a whole raft of (excellent, probably the best in any game yet) content most of which few people will ever actually play, because they are too busy zerg farming in cursed shore – followed by burn out and leaving the game.

you all seem to be confusing the very small number of people posting on the forums complaining that are obviously used to that other popular mmo way of doing things with some large number of people.

i have watched these forums for a couple days and its pretty obvious that the vast majority of players are happily playing the game.

this game has a large player base right now and the forums are moving fairly slow considering. if this forum was nonstop complaints and just a zerg fest of “i quit” posts, you might have some point, but right now its quite the opposite.

you all just happen to be the malcontents who think if you complain hard enough you really can turn that orange into an apple.

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