Guild Wars 2

depends how big the expansion would be to price
idk about 60$ it would need to be a insane expansion … new game

caveman.5840:

depends how big the expansion would be to price
idk about 60$ it would need to be a insane expansion … new game

An “insane” expansion is typically what you would see. I would gladly pay(wouldn’t expect anything different either) $60 for an expansion the size of Factions, nightfall or any of the WoW expansions.
I would also be okay with paying $10-$20 every 4-6 months for a DLC type expansion.

caveman.5840:

idk but all i can say is its about time to change up the game some ….

The game has become a Large Farm.
some examples:
1. Cursed shore – Farming Train (Karma, Loot Bags)
2. Dry Top – Farming Train (Karma, Loot Bags)
3. Dungeons – Gold Farming
4. EoTM – LvLing & Farming Train

There is so much grind that you can not have fun anymore.
As long as they releasing “farming” contents based on brainless zerging, nothing will change.

GW2 needs an expansion, veterans are leaving cause there is nothing new….thats the worst advertisement.
ArenaNet needs to put new stuff on the table, like classes, weapons, maps, dungeons (or redesign the old ones).

As for WvW, its been 2yrs and still the simplest thing : badges of honor are useless.

I also hope for a large expansion or dlc……

Fernling.1729:

caveman.5840:

depends how big the expansion would be to price
idk about 60$ it would need to be a insane expansion … new game

An “insane” expansion is typically what you would see. I would gladly pay(wouldn’t expect anything different either) $60 for an expansion the size of Factions, nightfall or any of the WoW expansions.
I would also be okay with paying $10-$20 every 4-6 months for a DLC type expansion.

even F2P games like DCUO put out decent DLC packs (expansions) for 7£ or so every 3-4 months, adding zones powers dungeons(cant remember what they called in it) raids and duos. if SOE can do it surely Anet can.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

The only ‘people’ who said to wait were the players themselves. ArenaNet has never given a timeline for when an ‘expansion’ would arrive. I fail to see where this “didn’t meet the expected timeline” comes from other than the people posting on the forums…especially the OP.

If there is evidence of ArenaNet stating there would be an ‘expansion’ within a certain time period (such as 2 years 25 days x amount of hours, or whatever), please do provide the link.

No Anet never give a time-line thats also why I started by saying this was even more towards those people then to Anet.

However what Anet did do was saying “they would put in the content we would normally see in an expansion” whether is was with an expansion or with the living story. And what most people expect is x amount of content in y amount of time. That time-line is basically provided by what the market does and is then also who those other people basically where referring to.

And that y time-line (provided by the marked) has been passed while the content is smaller then x. So in that way we did not get the content we would normally see in an expansion because then we would have seen more content by now.

Fernling.1729:

caveman.5840:

depends how big the expansion would be to price
idk about 60$ it would need to be a insane expansion … new game

An “insane” expansion is typically what you would see. I would gladly pay(wouldn’t expect anything different either) $60 for an expansion the size of Factions, nightfall or any of the WoW expansions.
I would also be okay with paying $10-$20 every 4-6 months for a DLC type expansion.

What I would think is best is that you have an expansion once a year. Then one smaller one (and so also a little cheaper) and the next year a bigger one (what cost more) and so on, lets say 40 / 60 and that pretty much no cash-shop in the game (while the expansions may optional also being sold in the cash-shop). But still both true expansions. DLC tends to disappoint and under-deliver content-wise in most games.

In addition real expansions give you the opportunity for CE edition what I think can also be good for a game. Not only from a income perspective but it adds something to the game also opening the way for more merchandise.

It’s Saturday, I’m bored, checking in on this video game I played for like 1000 hours until I felt like I’d done everything there was to do in the game… three times on each of my 8 characters.

Saw a comment… New continent??!!! OMG OMG OMG!!! Start downloading updates. Keep reading while downloading… ohhhhh, Dry Top Living Story crap is what that person meant by “new continent”. Sigh. Click “X” on updates.

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

The problem with replayable content is generally speaking its content designed to keep you busy for months – years and takes the form of dungeons and raids you need to repeat to get the next tier of gear or to unlock whats coming next. I’d personally take LS over that kind of content any day! Repeating the same things for long stretchs of time is just not fun for me.

GW2 is also trying to keep you busy with grinding for stuff. What you are talking about is a tier grind what is a another topic all together. Expansion do not automatically have to mean a new tier of armor and weapons. Also they have much more then just raids and dungeons it it comes to collecting stuff. How about mounts, mini’s, recipe’s and so on. That is just as much things used to keep many players playing for a long time. Some as part of a dungeon you would need to repeat other things as a reward for a quest or an achivement.

If you remove those rewards outside of dungeons and raids we get back to the original problem. A couple of months and its all finished.

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

wasted.6817:

I see this “2 weeks after rushing through content, back to complaining on forums” myth is still popular and goes around. How do people even come up with that kind of crap.

2 weeks is perhaps a little exaggerated although true for some hardcore players. For most people a couple of months is more likely.

there is a website that can help shed some light on this. it allows people to post their average play time:
http://www.howlongtobeat.com/

going for a certain very popular mmo if we take how long people took to finish the main content on average and the fastest times we get:

Expansion 1: 50hrs, 50hrs
Expansion 2: 335hrs, 70hrs
Expansion 3: 176hrs, 11hrs
Expansion 4: 211hrs, 20hrs

The ‘main’ content is not what kept me playing in mmo’s. It was all the side things (that in GW2 are sadly mainly grinding gold) there are in the world.

However if we would to look at that you can also ask yourself how many time people have spend in the LS things. You really think that is a lot. It’s something people do once and take about 2 hours to complete.. Now I am indeed talking about just the LS alone because you are talking about the ‘main’ content in expansions. So that number not going to be any higher.

I am sorry but Gw2 has that side stuff too but your reply to that was always along the lines of drop rates are just too low! Anything that can be bought with gold with the exception of gem shop stuff of course can be acquired in game. going for the gold instead of the stuff directly is just a personal choice.

No it is no choice. Most things you can not work for directly (it’s not a viable option) and you are required to grind a currency. I do not mind low drop rates at all. That makes stuff more rare what is fine. As long as you can work directly towards it and that is also the most viable option to get the rewards. What is not the case in GW2 for most things in there.

It is a choice. You can do one or the other that makes it a choice.

Devata.6589:

WoW has a cash-shop but it does not focus on it to generate it’s income that results in something like 10 mini’s, 5 mounts, 3 skins and the option to change your name. That is about it. (those number are +- didn’t feel like looking it up).

so having 18 items you specifically gave as an example of what ruines your expience in a game is okey when that number exceeds 18 then thats when the issue starts? 3 armor sets in the cash shop is fine, 7 is a problem.

As for cash shop focus, you think they went in the trouble of making it not to mention god knows how many subs it has cost them (because lets be honest here some players will never accept micro transactions if they’re already paying a sub… Secret world was full of those complaints at launch) and you really think they’re going to keep it as an after thought?

In fact it was so much an after thought that we didnt have a certain controversy how one of the very first things added to this cash shop was a pet that unlike all other pets binded to a char rather then account and was actually trade-able.

And of course WoW did $720m in microtransactions this year. At 7 million subs thats nearly 66% of their sub revenue and you really think they’re not focusing on how to maximize it?

I honestly cannot understand how you can justify that cash shop rather then what we have in Gw2 because at the end of the day they’re both selling the same things (excluding mounts) only difference is in WoW you’re paying $15 a month for I am not sure what considering you need to also pay for updates too. Sure in gw2 we have twice as many armor skins in the cash shop! with the $180 you’re saving off the sub you can buy them all + the ones that are coming for the next 6 years!

Devata.6589:

All the stuff you name are usually very rare world drops or at least harder to get then the currency to buy them. If I would want lets say a skin dropped by Teq (while that are the better ways to reward for sure!) I would likely end up earning the gold to buy it before it would drop (reason is because world bosses are one of the things used in this game to grind gold). And if thats the case there is something wrong

Well Teq is a bad example cause his stuff is actually account bound lets say claw of Jormag instead. that you can buy the stuff with gold is actually a good thing not a bad thing. As for doing it faster with gold… No Way.. At least no way for someone who plays the game without taking short cuts. It would cost around 100g to get Jormag’s Breath. Do you know how long it would take to make that much without farming? I dont anywhere between 200 – 400 hrs

The whole claw of jormag event takes less then 30 mins so thats 400 – 800 runs. somehow I think its probably faster to go for the drop.

Dont measure time with a gold farmer’s measure stick. Some people may be willing to trade fun for quick rewards but thats not true for everyone and most importantly the game wasnt designed for that play style. Else we’d who dont farm would probably be cut out from every reward

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

The problem with replayable content is generally speaking its content designed to keep you busy for months – years and takes the form of dungeons and raids you need to repeat to get the next tier of gear or to unlock whats coming next. I’d personally take LS over that kind of content any day! Repeating the same things for long stretchs of time is just not fun for me.

GW2 is also trying to keep you busy with grinding for stuff. What you are talking about is a tier grind what is a another topic all together. Expansion do not automatically have to mean a new tier of armor and weapons. Also they have much more then just raids and dungeons it it comes to collecting stuff. How about mounts, mini’s, recipe’s and so on. That is just as much things used to keep many players playing for a long time. Some as part of a dungeon you would need to repeat other things as a reward for a quest or an achivement.

If you remove those rewards outside of dungeons and raids we get back to the original problem. A couple of months and its all finished.

Read againt. I did give alternative rewards to put in the game. But you are right. If the expansion would be just a boring grind as this people will soon start complaining again. So a new expansion should also change some other thinks like a better reward system. (what we talked about in the Gable Wars 2 thread). Of course that comes back to why I am so for a true B2P model in stead of a F2P. If they want to keep selling gems they will have to make buying gems interesting what you do not do with an good reward system in the game because then people earn the best rewards there.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

wasted.6817:

I see this “2 weeks after rushing through content, back to complaining on forums” myth is still popular and goes around. How do people even come up with that kind of crap.

2 weeks is perhaps a little exaggerated although true for some hardcore players. For most people a couple of months is more likely.

there is a website that can help shed some light on this. it allows people to post their average play time:
http://www.howlongtobeat.com/

going for a certain very popular mmo if we take how long people took to finish the main content on average and the fastest times we get:

Expansion 1: 50hrs, 50hrs
Expansion 2: 335hrs, 70hrs
Expansion 3: 176hrs, 11hrs
Expansion 4: 211hrs, 20hrs

The ‘main’ content is not what kept me playing in mmo’s. It was all the side things (that in GW2 are sadly mainly grinding gold) there are in the world.

However if we would to look at that you can also ask yourself how many time people have spend in the LS things. You really think that is a lot. It’s something people do once and take about 2 hours to complete.. Now I am indeed talking about just the LS alone because you are talking about the ‘main’ content in expansions. So that number not going to be any higher.

I am sorry but Gw2 has that side stuff too but your reply to that was always along the lines of drop rates are just too low! Anything that can be bought with gold with the exception of gem shop stuff of course can be acquired in game. going for the gold instead of the stuff directly is just a personal choice.

No it is no choice. Most things you can not work for directly (it’s not a viable option) and you are required to grind a currency. I do not mind low drop rates at all. That makes stuff more rare what is fine. As long as you can work directly towards it and that is also the most viable option to get the rewards. What is not the case in GW2 for most things in there.

It is a choice. You can do one or the other that makes it a choice.

Ok please tell me how I would work directly towards the Flying broom? Or the Mist Herald Back item? Or the Gwynefyrdd? Or the Halloween Skins?

Galen Grey.4709:

so having 18 items you specifically gave as an example of what ruines your expience in a game is okey when that number exceeds 18 then thats when the issue starts? 3 armor sets in the cash shop is fine, 7 is a problem.

No those 18 or so are also bad but the game is not designed around it like GW2. It’s not like a currency grind trying to get you to buy stuff from the cash-shop but yes it matters if you have 250 mini’s in the game and 18 of those are available using the cash-shop or 200 are available using the cash-shop.

But of course I should not complain about that but of course you can grind gold to get them.. oow wait the complain was about the grind.

Content we normally see in an expansion? Let me see what the LW system brought us.

• new main story
• new maps
• new world bosses
• new dungeons/fractals
• new tier of gear
• new tier for professions
• new recipes
• new armor skins
• new stat combinations
• new runes and sigils
• new weapon skins
• new skills
• new mini games

It is quite a long list and I forgot some aspects (like new traits etc) for sure. These are all things you normally see in an expansion (pack). What we can discuss is the quantity of some points. But they are all present and delivered by the LW. Since we are in the middle of the current expansion cycle we can expect some more batches shipped to us.

Belenwyn.8674:

Content we normally see in an expansion? Let me see what the LW system brought us.

• new main story
• new maps
• new world bosses
• new dungeons/fractals
• new tier of gear
• new tier for professions
• new recipes
• new armor skins
• new stat combinations
• new runes and sigils
• new weapon skins
• new skills
• new mini games

It is quite a long list and I forgot some aspects (like new traits etc) for sure. These are all things you normally see in an expansion (pack). What we can discuss is the quantity of some points. But they are all present and delivered by the LW. Since we are in the middle of the current expansion cycle we can expect some more batches shipped to us.

You mix up content and content type. (One map is not the same content as 10 maps but it is all the same content type) Yes most of the content type you see in an expansion has been added but not most of the content because for that quantity is just as important.

What you normally see in an expansion is about 12 maps (usually a new continent and opening some new maps in the existing continent). All filled with stuff to do like (quest / events and so on.

You would see a whole new skill line to go for or a new profession. Or a race, or a combo of these.

You would see multiple new dungeons,

You would also see a completely new type of content a lot of the time.

Belenwyn.8674:

• new main story
• new maps
• new world bosses
• new dungeons/fractals
• new tier of gear
• new tier for professions
• new recipes
• new armor skins
• new stat combinations
• new runes and sigils
• new weapon skins
• new skills
• new mini games

Nice list. You should check out mine.

Devata.6589:

Belenwyn.8674:

Content we normally see in an expansion? Let me see what the LW system brought us.

• new main story
• new maps
• new world bosses
• new dungeons/fractals
• new tier of gear
• new tier for professions
• new recipes
• new armor skins
• new stat combinations
• new runes and sigils
• new weapon skins
• new skills
• new mini games

It is quite a long list and I forgot some aspects (like new traits etc) for sure. These are all things you normally see in an expansion (pack). What we can discuss is the quantity of some points. But they are all present and delivered by the LW. Since we are in the middle of the current expansion cycle we can expect some more batches shipped to us.

You mix up content and content type. (One map is not the same content as 10 maps but it is all the same content type) Yes most of the content type you see in an expansion has been added but not most of the content because for that quantity is just as important.

What you normally see in an expansion is about 12 maps (usually a new continent and opening some new maps in the existing continent). All filled with stuff to do like (quest / events and so on.

You would see a whole new skill line to go for or a new profession. Or a race, or a combo of these.

You would see multiple new dungeons,

You would also see a completely new type of content a lot of the time.

Content for me includes type and amount. For you it seems it is only the amount.

Belenwyn.8674:

Devata.6589:

Belenwyn.8674:

Content we normally see in an expansion? Let me see what the LW system brought us.

• new main story
• new maps
• new world bosses
• new dungeons/fractals
• new tier of gear
• new tier for professions
• new recipes
• new armor skins
• new stat combinations
• new runes and sigils
• new weapon skins
• new skills
• new mini games

It is quite a long list and I forgot some aspects (like new traits etc) for sure. These are all things you normally see in an expansion (pack). What we can discuss is the quantity of some points. But they are all present and delivered by the LW. Since we are in the middle of the current expansion cycle we can expect some more batches shipped to us.

You mix up content and content type. (One map is not the same content as 10 maps but it is all the same content type) Yes most of the content type you see in an expansion has been added but not most of the content because for that quantity is just as important.

What you normally see in an expansion is about 12 maps (usually a new continent and opening some new maps in the existing continent). All filled with stuff to do like (quest / events and so on.

You would see a whole new skill line to go for or a new profession. Or a race, or a combo of these.

You would see multiple new dungeons,

You would also see a completely new type of content a lot of the time.

Content for me includes type and amount. For you it seems it is only the amount.

No both. See my example. It was you who came with the list of different types to ‘proof’ the cpntent was there, not me.

I like LS,i dont need to defend anything.LS is content that has nothing to do with feature patches.All your “expansion” content can be added through patches so there is no reason to give up from LS and go to standard static boring expansion world.If you want to complain then complain on feature patches not LS.

saalle.4623:

I like LS,i dont need to defend anything.LS is content that has nothing to do with feature patches.All your “expansion” content can be added through patches so there is no reason to give up from LS and go to standard static boring expansion world.If you want to complain then complain on feature patches not LS.

Oow I believe it can be done that way (while I would still be against it because of the way they then monetize the game). It’s just that Anet proved they where not able to do that. Not within the time there competitors do it at least.

Why complain about the feature patch. Some things in them where bad but overall I had more fun after feature patches and during LS breaks then during LS patches. But thats of course personal.

Belenwyn.8674:

Devata.6589:

Belenwyn.8674:

Content we normally see in an expansion? Let me see what the LW system brought us.

• new main story
• new maps
• new world bosses
• new dungeons/fractals
• new tier of gear
• new tier for professions
• new recipes
• new armor skins
• new stat combinations
• new runes and sigils
• new weapon skins
• new skills
• new mini games

It is quite a long list and I forgot some aspects (like new traits etc) for sure. These are all things you normally see in an expansion (pack). What we can discuss is the quantity of some points. But they are all present and delivered by the LW. Since we are in the middle of the current expansion cycle we can expect some more batches shipped to us.

You mix up content and content type. (One map is not the same content as 10 maps but it is all the same content type) Yes most of the content type you see in an expansion has been added but not most of the content because for that quantity is just as important.

What you normally see in an expansion is about 12 maps (usually a new continent and opening some new maps in the existing continent). All filled with stuff to do like (quest / events and so on.

You would see a whole new skill line to go for or a new profession. Or a race, or a combo of these.

You would see multiple new dungeons,

You would also see a completely new type of content a lot of the time.

Content for me includes type and amount. For you it seems it is only the amount.

They have released a lot of the content type that would generally be included in an expansion, it’s the quantity that is in question here. In my opinion, the living story is nowhere close to the amount of quantity that I would expect from an expansion.

Fernling.1729:

They have released a lot of the content type that would generally be included in an expansion, it’s the quantity that is in question here. In my opinion, the living story is nowhere close to the amount of quantity that I would expect from an expansion.

In regard to the quantity I can agree with you. In my eyes the reason lies in the currently insufficient support of the LW team by other content teams. The LW itself does a very good job with season 2. The LW is now an evolved Personal Story with much more content and replayabilty. But as the Personal Story alone does not provide the whole spectrum of content the LW can’t either. PS and LW are rah´ther the rted threads guiding the player through the existing content and provide the back story for the introduction of the new content. At the moment we have mostly LW alone.

Sometimes I have the feeling the LW team has to develop the LW plus the content delivered via LW. This will not work for sure. The LW team is not big enough for this.

hmm content you normally see in an expansion:

new class/es
new areas
new skins
new pets
new story content

that’s all I can think of. probably more but ehh my brain is mush.

Belenwyn.8674:

Fernling.1729:

They have released a lot of the content type that would generally be included in an expansion, it’s the quantity that is in question here. In my opinion, the living story is nowhere close to the amount of quantity that I would expect from an expansion.

In regard to the quantity I can agree with you. In my eyes the reason lies in the currently insufficient support of the LW team by other content teams. The LW itself does a very good job with season 2. The LW is now an evolved Personal Story with much more content and replayabilty. But as the Personal Story alone does not provide the whole spectrum of content the LW can’t either. PS and LW are rah´ther the rted threads guiding the player through the existing content and provide the back story for the introduction of the new content. At the moment we have mostly LW alone.

Sometimes I have the feeling the LW team has to develop the LW plus the content delivered via LW. This will not work for sure. The LW team is not big enough for this.

Supposedly the living story team consists of ~20 employees. It really makes you think they have to be working on something much larger. I’m willing to believe they have been working on a paid expansion. Where are all the writers? Where did the dungeon team go?
-New profession and/or race.
-5-15 new zones, most of them regular sized zones. Not drytop size.
-Hopefully it will at least double or triple the size of current abilities and traits available per profession.
5-10 new dungeons.
-AI completely reworked for enemy mobs and pets.
-Complete overhaul on how combat works. The combat system itself is awesome. The boring zerging is not. Figure out how to make bosses more fun, one hit kills aren’t fun. Defiance isn’t fun.

Just a few things I expect/want from an expansion. An expansion I fully believe they are working .

Belenwyn.8674:

Fernling.1729:

They have released a lot of the content type that would generally be included in an expansion, it’s the quantity that is in question here. In my opinion, the living story is nowhere close to the amount of quantity that I would expect from an expansion.

In regard to the quantity I can agree with you. In my eyes the reason lies in the currently insufficient support of the LW team by other content teams. The LW itself does a very good job with season 2. The LW is now an evolved Personal Story with much more content and replayabilty. But as the Personal Story alone does not provide the whole spectrum of content the LW can’t either. PS and LW are rah´ther the rted threads guiding the player through the existing content and provide the back story for the introduction of the new content. At the moment we have mostly LW alone.

Sometimes I have the feeling the LW team has to develop the LW plus the content delivered via LW. This will not work for sure. The LW team is not big enough for this.

But isn’t the PS supposed to be an optional story. Personally I still have not completed the PS one any of my characters because I don’t care so much for that story.

Rangelost.4857:

People pay $40 for a console game, then consider it descent if they get 40 hours of gameplay out of it.

People pay $40 for Guild Wars 2, and after spending thousands of hours in the game, they complain about lack of content.

I don’t even.

It’s like putting together a jack(male donkey) with a stallion, having them race each other and be impressed with the result.

I don’t even.

I won’t explain how wrong your example is. You go on and think about M.M.O.R.P.G.s and console games.

Devata.6589:

But isn’t the PS supposed to be an optional story. Personally I still have not completed the PS one any of my characters because I don’t care so much for that story.

The PS is an optional story like the story of the LW as well. You can skip it if you do not enjoy it.

Fernling.1729:

Supposedly the living story team consists of ~20 employees. It really makes you think they have to be working on something much larger. I’m willing to believe they have been working on a paid expansion. Where are all the writers? Where did the dungeon team go?
-New profession and/or race.
-5-15 new zones, most of them regular sized zones. Not drytop size.
-Hopefully it will at least double or triple the size of current abilities and traits available per profession.
5-10 new dungeons.
-AI completely reworked for enemy mobs and pets.
-Complete overhaul on how combat works. The combat system itself is awesome. The boring zerging is not. Figure out how to make bosses more fun, one hit kills aren’t fun. Defiance isn’t fun.

Just a few things I expect/want from an expansion. An expansion I fully believe they are working .

At the moment I have the impression the LW has to develop not only the core story of the LW but the stage to like Dry top including all the events and bosses. This would also explain the extended break. The small team needs simply more time the design all the stuff.

I also hope that the other content/narrative teams work on larger projects that can be shipped with season 3 to 5.

Belenwyn.8674:

Devata.6589:

But isn’t the PS supposed to be an optional story. Personally I still have not completed the PS one any of my characters because I don’t care so much for that story.

The PS is an optional story like the story of the LW as well. You can skip it if you do not enjoy it.

Yeah what I mean is you should then not put all your attention into that.

“The small team needs simply more time the design all the stuff.”

With having an expansion once a year we give them exactly that. More time for better content and in addition we also pay for it so they can earn money that way in stead of the current way. win win.

Win/win for you. Not so much for me. I’d much rather not have to wait a year between updates, large or small. I enjoyed the two-week cadence; I wish they would bring that back. Maybe next year, a year without China release, will see a return to that cadence.

Also, even though I’m in the minority, I wish they would bring back the less-permanent releases of Season One. I’m not too fond of Season Two’s offerings. /shrug

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Win/win for you. Not so much for me. I’d much rather not have to wait a year between updates, large or small. I enjoyed the two-week cadence; I wish they would bring that back. Maybe next year, a year without China release, will see a return to that cadence.

Also, even though I’m in the minority, I wish they would bring back the less-permanent releases of Season One. I’m not too fond of Season Two’s offerings. /shrug

Well do you remember how the started the LS. There suddenly where some refugee’s, then there where some signs we could set up. Also some other small changes. I would not mind them using that sort of stuff. It should then not have any rewards or achievements linked to them but just some very small changes that do drive a story one expansion to the other.

The temporary nature was bad because people where forced to do it now or miss out on the rewards and achievements. But if there are no rewards or achievements, just some small patches that drive a story that would be fine.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Win/win for you. Not so much for me. I’d much rather not have to wait a year between updates, large or small. I enjoyed the two-week cadence; I wish they would bring that back. Maybe next year, a year without China release, will see a return to that cadence.

Also, even though I’m in the minority, I wish they would bring back the less-permanent releases of Season One. I’m not too fond of Season Two’s offerings. /shrug

Honest question here,

Was it the temporary vs permanent nature of the two seasons that led to your preference or the specifics of the content itself ?

Fernling.1729:

Belenwyn.8674:

Fernling.1729:

They have released a lot of the content type that would generally be included in an expansion, it’s the quantity that is in question here. In my opinion, the living story is nowhere close to the amount of quantity that I would expect from an expansion.

In regard to the quantity I can agree with you. In my eyes the reason lies in the currently insufficient support of the LW team by other content teams. The LW itself does a very good job with season 2. The LW is now an evolved Personal Story with much more content and replayabilty. But as the Personal Story alone does not provide the whole spectrum of content the LW can’t either. PS and LW are rah´ther the rted threads guiding the player through the existing content and provide the back story for the introduction of the new content. At the moment we have mostly LW alone.

Sometimes I have the feeling the LW team has to develop the LW plus the content delivered via LW. This will not work for sure. The LW team is not big enough for this.

Supposedly the living story team consists of ~20 employees. It really makes you think they have to be working on something much larger. I’m willing to believe they have been working on a paid expansion. Where are all the writers? Where did the dungeon team go?
-New profession and/or race.
-5-15 new zones, most of them regular sized zones. Not drytop size.
-Hopefully it will at least double or triple the size of current abilities and traits available per profession.
5-10 new dungeons.
-AI completely reworked for enemy mobs and pets.
-Complete overhaul on how combat works. The combat system itself is awesome. The boring zerging is not. Figure out how to make bosses more fun, one hit kills aren’t fun. Defiance isn’t fun.

Just a few things I expect/want from an expansion. An expansion I fully believe they are working .

Some clarification here…it took a team of 100 employees just to get the game ready for the China launch…so those 100 were only doing things related to the launch of the game in China until recently.

The LS has four(4), I’ll repeat, four(4) teams working concurrently on their respective release, that is the only way A.net is able to release chapters every 2 weeks. So for the first part o LS S2, there was a team that worked on each of those releases, and if each team is ~20 people, there’s another ~80 employees right there.

Dungeon team…does not exist, there isn’t one

Then you have x amount of CS, remember they’re all apart of the A.net staff, and you have administrative, plus the PvP/WvW teams…you have a bug team…you have programmers(they’re separate from everyone else).

Get the picture now? They haven’t had enough free employees to be working on an expansion, and they have never been working on one, the Living Story is how they are releasing their content. Finally, the Feature Packs has their own team(or draws from a portion of they various other teams, not sure on that one).

Zaklex.6308:

Fernling.1729:

Belenwyn.8674:

Fernling.1729:

They have released a lot of the content type that would generally be included in an expansion, it’s the quantity that is in question here. In my opinion, the living story is nowhere close to the amount of quantity that I would expect from an expansion.

In regard to the quantity I can agree with you. In my eyes the reason lies in the currently insufficient support of the LW team by other content teams. The LW itself does a very good job with season 2. The LW is now an evolved Personal Story with much more content and replayabilty. But as the Personal Story alone does not provide the whole spectrum of content the LW can’t either. PS and LW are rah´ther the rted threads guiding the player through the existing content and provide the back story for the introduction of the new content. At the moment we have mostly LW alone.

Sometimes I have the feeling the LW team has to develop the LW plus the content delivered via LW. This will not work for sure. The LW team is not big enough for this.

Supposedly the living story team consists of ~20 employees. It really makes you think they have to be working on something much larger. I’m willing to believe they have been working on a paid expansion. Where are all the writers? Where did the dungeon team go?
-New profession and/or race.
-5-15 new zones, most of them regular sized zones. Not drytop size.
-Hopefully it will at least double or triple the size of current abilities and traits available per profession.
5-10 new dungeons.
-AI completely reworked for enemy mobs and pets.
-Complete overhaul on how combat works. The combat system itself is awesome. The boring zerging is not. Figure out how to make bosses more fun, one hit kills aren’t fun. Defiance isn’t fun.

Just a few things I expect/want from an expansion. An expansion I fully believe they are working .

Some clarification here…it took a team of 100 employees just to get the game ready for the China launch…so those 100 were only doing things related to the launch of the game in China until recently.

The LS has four(4), I’ll repeat, four(4) teams working concurrently on their respective release, that is the only way A.net is able to release chapters every 2 weeks. So for the first part o LS S2, there was a team that worked on each of those releases, and if each team is ~20 people, there’s another ~80 employees right there.

Dungeon team…does not exist, there isn’t one

Then you have x amount of CS, remember they’re all apart of the A.net staff, and you have administrative, plus the PvP/WvW teams…you have a bug team…you have programmers(they’re separate from everyone else).

Get the picture now? They haven’t had enough free employees to be working on an expansion, and they have never been working on one, the Living Story is how they are releasing their content. Finally, the Feature Packs has their own team(or draws from a portion of they various other teams, not sure on that one).

I didn’t hear anything about them using 100 Anet employees to port the game over. I figured it would have been a lot of kongzhong and NCsoft employees handling that.

They’ve already said that there are only 20 employees working on the living story team. They used to have 4 teams, but it was consolidated into the single 20 man team.

We are talking about 120 employees accounted for if they really did have 100 working on the Chinese release. Anet has something like 350 employees.

We know that Anet outsources a bit of their work, like QA and most likely CS. Do they count that type of work into their amount of employees?

Korossive.7085:

Belenwyn.8674:

• new main story
• new maps
• new world bosses
• new dungeons/fractals
• new tier of gear
• new tier for professions
• new recipes
• new armor skins
• new stat combinations
• new runes and sigils
• new weapon skins
• new skills
• new mini games

Nice list. You should check out mine.

Korossive.7085:

Player Based GW2 2nd Year Statistics

Lets go:

• # of new weapon types: 0
• # of new weapon combinations: 0
• # of new weapon skills: 0
• # of new races: 0
• # of new professions: 0
• # of new dungeons: 0
• # of new Guild Missions: 0
• # of new reachable dragons: 0
• # of dyeable weapons: 0
• # of new legendaries: 0
• # of lore to legendaries: 0
• # of craftable precursors: 0
• # of guild housings: 0
• # of players in Cantha/Elona: 0
• # of cape skins: 0
• # of new usages for dungeon or fractals tokens: 0
• # of characters who changed race: 0
• # of ascended rings salvaged: 0
• # of fixes for merge-kicking: 0
• # of fixes to 25-conditions in PvE: 0
• # of attainable Tribal armor pieces: 0
• # of attainable Halloween backpiece/Witch Hats: 0
• # of Halloween 2014 weapon skins: 0
• # of outfits converted to armor: 0
• # of developments to Orr story: 0
• # of developments to personal story: 0
• # of new minis instead of any of this: 49
• # of Human Female animations removed: 4
• # of players requesting SAB: 6,945
• # of times Jory called me “doll”: 1,988
• # of paths sold for gold: 254,269
• # of Fractal levels we took from players on reset: 8,984,441,658

Such wow.

So there you have your Player Based GW2 2nd Year Statistics

EDIT: Updated for comments. PvP/WvW not even mentioned, not enough space.

Things added in 2 years since release. This is a list I modified from another list somewhere and I am going to keep adding to it. I need to separate everything out into different categories like Cosmetic, Quality of Life, Area, etc… I also need to get an accurate count of total skins, achievements, titles, etc… placed in game since release as well. I’ll get to it later. Just thought I would share this work in progress here since people are also making lists:D. Let me know if I am missing anything.

Mini Games like Belchers Bluff, Sanctum Sprint, Dragon Ball, Costume Brawl
etc…
Dailies, Monthlies, and Laurel Rewards
Achievement Point Rewards
New Achievements
New Titles
Luck System Change – Added it to account passive for the most part. It used to be a gear stat
Account Wide Wardrobe
Account Wide Dye System
Living Story in Journal
Instruments, Dances, Costumes, etc…
New Map Dry Top + 1 New Jumping Puzzle
New Hair and Facial Styles
New Map Southsun Cove + 2 New Jumping Puzzles + 1 New World Boss Karka Queen
Southsun Cove Event
Living Story Season 1 & 2
Fractals of the Mists – And newer fractals since.
Modified existing Raid Encounter Tequatl
New Raid Encounter Triple Trouble
Destruction of Lion’s Arch
Zephyr Sanctum events
New Map Edge of the Mists
Craftable Backpieces
New Event Related Back Peices
Black Lion Weapon Skin Sets
Holiday Weapon Skin Sets
Guild Missions – A ton of Bounties, Challenges, Rushes and Jumping Puzzles
Crown Pavilion and subsequent changes to the encounters in it
Holiday Jumping Puzzles
Super Adventure Box Jumping Puzzle
Aetherblade Jumping Puzzle
Ascended Weapon and Armor
Items in Gem Store
1 New dungeon Path Atherblade TA
Obsidian Sanctum 2nd Larger Arena for GvG
New Skills
New Traits
PvP Reward Tracks + PvP Exclusive Back Peice and Armor
WvW Traits

This game is not prepared for the future with this amount of content (for example no real endgame in GW2 and the lack of challenge). For example Archeage patch 1.7 gives atleast the amount of content maybe even more than Anet has added to this whole game over these 2 years. (I am comparing GW2 to AA because GW2 is a little over 2 years old and AA is nearly 2 years old.)

“But hey at least we got living story and these new quaggan tonics” while NCsoft spends money from GW2 to Aion content, Lineage content, Wildstar (<- housing was canceled from GW2 and Wildstar got the housing system for example).

The main goal of NCsoft was to make GW2 The Fastest Selling MMO not The Best MMO. It’s either that or Anet devs are seriously lost and have no idea what to do with this game. By now it’s starting to be a BIT late if this is the case.

I would have gladly paid 60$ for a traditional expansion every 1-2 years. If they wanted to include all of the story that LS had within the expansion, great.

LS was probably the largest turn off for me.

Scryeless.1924:

Things added in 2 years since release. This is a list I modified from another list somewhere and I am going to keep adding to it. I need to separate everything out into different categories like Cosmetic, Quality of Life, Area, etc… I also need to get an accurate count of total skins, achievements, titles, etc… placed in game since release as well. I’ll get to it later. Just thought I would share this work in progress here since people are also making lists:D. Let me know if I am missing anything.

Mini Games like Belchers Bluff, Sanctum Sprint, Dragon Ball, Costume Brawl
etc…
Dailies, Monthlies, and Laurel Rewards
Achievement overhaul – Achievement Point Rewards/New Achievements & Titles (changed)
Luck System Change – Added it to account passive for the most part. It used to be a gear stat
Account Wide Wardrobe and Account Wide Dye System (changed/combined)
Living Story in Journal - Moved to Living Story
Aesthetics/‘fun items’ combined(skins,dances,instruments,etc) (changed/combined)
New Map Dry Top + 1 New Jumping Puzzle
New Map Southsun Cove + 2 New Jumping Puzzles + 1 New World Boss Karka Queen
Southsun Cove Event (but no one does this stuff anymore. Worth being here?)
Living Story Season 1 & 2 & Journal
Fractals of the Mists – And newer fractals since. - Moved to Ascended Armor
Modified existing Raid Encounter Tequatl
New Raid Encounter Triple Trouble
Destruction of Lion’s Arch - part of LS 1 & Zephyr Sanctum events part of LS 2
New Map Edge of the Mists
Craftable Backpieces / New Event Related Back Peices(changed/combined)
Guild Missions – A ton of Bounties, Challenges, Rushes and Jumping Puzzles
Crown Pavilion and subsequent changes to the encounters in it
Holiday Jumping Puzzles - Misc. Jumping puzzles
Super Adventure Box Jumping Puzzle - No longer available and devs said it wont be again.
Misc. Jumping Puzzles
Aetherblade Jumping Puzzle - Misc. Jumping puzzles
Ascended Weapon and Armor / Fractals
Items in Gem Store This isn’t content.
1 New dungeon Path Atherblade TA
Obsidian Sanctum 2nd Larger Arena for GvG
New Skills No. One or two healing skills that do not change up the meta or cookie cutter builds doesn’t cut it. Promised skills, not one worthless healing skill.
New Traits
PvP Reward Tracks + PvP Exclusive Back Peice and Armor
WvW Traits

I fixed that up for you. Lets not inflate some things. It’s still a decent amount to be sure, but lets not say that Destruction of LA and Zephyr events should be on their own seperate lines when you also list Living Story 1 and 2.

While thats a lot of stuff, and some of it is no longer available like SAB, I would still prefer an expansion. I would rather have all my content be given to me all at once and pay good money for it, rather than spoon fed a few sprinkles every few weeks.

Whether or not you are able to debate if Arenanet has been giving an expansions worth of content in the last 1-2 years, I would still gladly pay more money for a traditional expansion. Call me old fashion.

Gibson.4036:

Galen Grey.4709:

its the nature of very best rewards… one thing that makes a reward the best is the value associated with it and what makes something valuable? how hard it is to get!
I’d say the Final Rest is one of the nicest staves in the game for example. Its not grindy to get 6g – 7g easy to make in a couple of days but is it considered one of the best staves? no cause its just too easy to get.

I was thinking of straight up income (gold), Ascended mats, or even top tier crafting mats.

These things are limited to a very small portion of the game’s content.

Then its simply not the case. Gold, Ascended mats and t6 crafting materials are spread out all over the place. Whatever you enjoy doing can get you those rewards.

Its people who like to grind the fastest content to hoard as many of them as possible. Thats not something that can be fixed. If Anet were to say boost 100x the reward in those terms of jumping puzzles it will not solve the grind issue because people will simply move from grinding champions to grinding jumping puzzles.

Devata.6589:

Every time that rush of will it drop or not.. Yes that makes doing the dungeon 25 times much more fun ten doing it 25 times seeing your gold slowly go up and it also makes the reward feel much more rewarding. (that is what I said about it giving more value to the item)

Thing is you actually have both. Anything that drops gold can drop the best rewards in the game as well.

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Flitzie.6082:

Another day another expansion thread.
At some point I feel I should voice my own opinion on this.
(Note: I have not played GW1 for reasons I still dont understand, I kind of never had it on my radar. I have no experience with the Expansions of GW1 and what they did to the game)

~

Games dying out is not because of expansions.

it is not that simple. Consider Gw2 at launch how many people cried out for vertical progression so much so Anet gave them ascended armor and Fractals. Now Imagine they were going with an expansion model and imagine each expansion takes 1.5 years to develop (1/2 way between our two timelines) Anet hears the need for vertical progression and decides their idea of ditching vertical progression wasnt healty and focus most of the expansion on adding some vertical progression only to have a bigger out cry when the expansion releases. Now its 1.5 more years before they can “fix” it or convince people that well it was just a one off there would not be a new tier with every expansion etc..

you’re essentially both right an expansion doesnt kill an MMO but a miss step in an expansion very well can.

I did not see anybody ask for that. But then again I did not become really active here until about 6 months after release when I did see the game starting (or planning) to go in the wrong direction.

Sure missteps can end bad for a game but thats not different from the way they do it now. How long did it take them to take out scarlet because many people disliked it? And after the complains about the ascended tier they did keep adding more. Likely because that was already worked on, so the LS does not also mean they can simply turn back on a bed decision. If you make a bad decision in one expansion you fix it in the next one. There is a higher risk with the expansion model I do agree with that. Not as much higher as you seem to think because we did see it happen with the LS as well without it being taken out within a small amount of time but yeah expansions have a higher risk. With GW1 however Anet did show they could provide what people wanted.

With GW2 that seems to have been ore of a problem. There content seems more about selling gems and proving a point.. Lets destroy LA to show what we can do with the LS. Both do not really help the game imo.

Every MMO other there has people pointing at one of its expansions and blaming it for destroying the game and thats including the game thats as far from destroyed as one can get!

Vix.6730:

It’s too late for an expansion, anyways. Anet has outsourced too many jobs, and allowed too much talent to walk. They now have a reputation of low-balling developers and mis-management which leads to consistent sources of frustration and delays in code releases. Seattle is flourishing is game development. Many an opportunity to be found.

So where does that leave GW2? The same state it is now for the foreseeable future.

Based on what exactly? Arenanet claim they have 350+ employess. There are 292 employees on linked in that list their current employer as Arenanet. they also have 18 jobs opening. Please provide your sources

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

The problem with replayable content is generally speaking its content designed to keep you busy for months – years and takes the form of dungeons and raids you need to repeat to get the next tier of gear or to unlock whats coming next. I’d personally take LS over that kind of content any day! Repeating the same things for long stretchs of time is just not fun for me.

GW2 is also trying to keep you busy with grinding for stuff. What you are talking about is a tier grind what is a another topic all together. Expansion do not automatically have to mean a new tier of armor and weapons. Also they have much more then just raids and dungeons it it comes to collecting stuff. How about mounts, mini’s, recipe’s and so on. That is just as much things used to keep many players playing for a long time. Some as part of a dungeon you would need to repeat other things as a reward for a quest or an achivement.

If you remove those rewards outside of dungeons and raids we get back to the original problem. A couple of months and its all finished.

Read againt. I did give alternative rewards to put in the game. But you are right. If the expansion would be just a boring grind as this people will soon start complaining again. So a new expansion should also change some other thinks like a better reward system. (what we talked about in the Gable Wars 2 thread). Of course that comes back to why I am so for a true B2P model in stead of a F2P. If they want to keep selling gems they will have to make buying gems interesting what you do not do with an good reward system in the game because then people earn the best rewards there.

Grind is a people’s problem first and foremost Devata. If you’re after rewards you’re after rewards nothing Anet or anyone can do about that. The expansion will not be a boring grind, just like the released game wasnt a boring grind. Anet did everything right to eliminate grind. This is by far the least grindy game I have ever played and I played so many MMOs I assure you.

But you have to focus on the game first leaving reward second. You have to be willing to look at a reward see the different paths you can take to it and decide…. yeah well I could get this in a few hours by grinding this content or in a couple of weeks by doing what I feel like doing and then walk away from the quick path. Lots of people seem not be able to do that and no matter how awesome an expansion is for those people it will end up feeling grindy.

And i know you’re going to say make stuff drop off bosses rather then make it tradable. That will be so much worst, it would simply make everything grindy. Rewards would start dictating what content you play rather then what you feel like and it would be repetition, repetition, repetition until you get that drop you’re after. Like I said thats already possible, everything drops from somewhere but its so grindy going directly after it. Do you really think that just by removing every other way of acquiring a reward it will suddenly feel good to do it? Because pretty sure if that were to happen I who love this game would most likely stop playing it.

Devata.6589:

No P2P and F2P models put also a lot more content out during those 2 years (thats something you seem to forget) and I would also not expect every year an expansion the size of the expansions you would see with the expansions released every two years. That are the big differences. I would expect less content in between and smaller expansions then the 2 years expansions. And that is why it can go faster (an expansion per year) when they focus on that.

Has someone introduced the idea of expansions and heaps of content being released because the developer is just sitting on it? That is to say, it was developed with the “core” game, but removed for future stimulation? Mass Effect 3 is guilty of this, the template for a DLC character was already in the core game. There’s also a number of other games that, during development, developers would announce they have “day 1 DLC”.

I have experienced “content worth an expansion” during the 2 years i’ve played but temporary content that is gone does not count. The same way as holidays that we go to never happened because we came back home.

Galen Grey.4709:

Ascended mats and t6 crafting materials are spread out all over the place. Whatever you enjoy doing can get you those rewards.

Ascended mats do not drop all over the place. If one wishes to avoid zergs, JP’s and dungeons the only Ascended mats one sees are from the occasional Champion bag. :p That’s an awful lot of the game left out.

T6 mats? Sure, Gossamer, Orichalcum and the relatively worthless T6 leather salvage from item drops. The Blood, Bone, etc. don’t drop all over the game, though. Mind you, I’m most saying they should, but one certainly cannot get them “whatever you enjoy.”

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Every time that rush of will it drop or not.. Yes that makes doing the dungeon 25 times much more fun ten doing it 25 times seeing your gold slowly go up and it also makes the reward feel much more rewarding. (that is what I said about it giving more value to the item)

Thing is you actually have both. Anything that drops gold can drop the best rewards in the game as well.

No I don’t and no it does not work that way.

If I had that same feeling I would not talk about it here. It’s clear you feel different about it and can’t understand how it works / is / feels for those people that do complain about this so just take my word for it.. or don’t.

We tried to explain it to you multiple times and you simply don’t get it. Thats fine. I don’t get while some people like to do brainless zerg content to grind gold to then buy rewards and they probably won’t be able to explain it to me. But I do acknowledge some people do like that.

But trust me, many people do feel the way I and phys (in the other thread) explained it to you and that is because of the way the reward-system works in GW2. Whether you see it or not and whether you acknowledge that or not.

And without you seeing this it’s also useless to really react to your other reply’s. I mean in one of them you even say “Anet did everything right to eliminate grind.” while for many this is a very very grindy game (because of the thing we explained to you but you don’t get), for me it’s the most grindy game I ever played and we probably played some of the same MMO’s like WoW (just a guess). Because you base your hole reply on such premise that is simply untrue (for many gamers, not for you) then it’s also useless to really go into those reply’s that any further. I would then only repaid my explanation another time and you would not get it another time.

Boneheart.3561:

Devata.6589:

No P2P and F2P models put also a lot more content out during those 2 years (thats something you seem to forget) and I would also not expect every year an expansion the size of the expansions you would see with the expansions released every two years. That are the big differences. I would expect less content in between and smaller expansions then the 2 years expansions. And that is why it can go faster (an expansion per year) when they focus on that.

Has someone introduced the idea of expansions and heaps of content being released because the developer is just sitting on it? That is to say, it was developed with the “core” game, but removed for future stimulation? Mass Effect 3 is guilty of this, the template for a DLC character was already in the core game. There’s also a number of other games that, during development, developers would announce they have “day 1 DLC”.

That is a risk of the B2P model that I did address indeed. Something you get with greedy or scared (to not earn enough money) companies. No model can prevent a company from killing there own product.

However even a company that is not being greedy that uses a F2P model will have to effect it’s game because it need to increase cash-shop sales. A B2P model that is not being greedy only will need to release good expansion on a regular base. So at least there is a opportunity to have a game that is unaffected by the model. (Same for P2P btw but thats not very popular with many gamers anymore including myself)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

The only ‘people’ who said to wait were the players themselves. ArenaNet has never given a timeline for when an ‘expansion’ would arrive. I fail to see where this “didn’t meet the expected timeline” comes from other than the people posting on the forums…especially the OP.

If there is evidence of ArenaNet stating there would be an ‘expansion’ within a certain time period (such as 2 years 25 days x amount of hours, or whatever), please do provide the link.

Arenanet said they would deliver xpac content through the living story. In over two years the living story has delivered about 1% what an xpac would deliver and about half as much as what other games deliver through normal updates. That is why people are saying time is up. They don’t have to give an exact deadline or an ETA. They said they would deliver through the LS and they did not.