Guild Wars 2

One thing that a lot of players complained about was that, in certain cases, Elite Specializations felt like straight upgrades of the base profession and that the extra goodies you could get from the Elite Specializations were worth sacrificing another specialization line even when you weren’t using it to the fullest.

I thought that a way to partially offset this was adding something special to the third specialization slot, the one used for Elite Specialization.
Basically, the specialization placed in the third slot would get an extra trait unique to that specialization and that could be only activated when placing the Specialization in that third slot.

For example, a Guardian using Zeal, Valor and Virtues would have a new trait depending on which Specialization was put in the third slot. This would add nothing major to the profession, but could be a way to increase the customization of the professions, and could also work as an extra balance-lever for developers to fiddle with when balancing professions.

I’m honestly not that dedicated to know which effects could work in a similar scenario, but I always thought that, since the third spec slot is the only one where you can place an Elite Specialization, it could have some extra power even when not using an Elite specialization.
As I said, it doesn’t have to be something incredibly powerful, but it would still increase decision making.

EDIT: since some are mistaken: no, I’m not suggesting to also buff Elite Specialization. The third slot specialization bonus would only affect core specializations.

Or take a page from GW1 and give a stats buff (flat celestial buff or % of current stats) if you don’t have an elite spec equipped.

More build-combination dont bring better balance, it only makes it worse.
Especally if you add new mechanics, who allow even more combinations.

To buff the core- specs is always good, but give the same buff to the elitespecs is pointless.

For better core/elitespec we dont need even more mechanics and more powercreep, we need to rework stoneold traits/skills.
(guardian spiritweapons anyone?)

Problem for later is not core vs elite, its the problem, every class has only on Elite to choose from.
Give every class, lets say 3 elitespecs, so we really have to choose carefully.

Van Bergen.5084:

To buff the core- specs is always good, but give the same buff to the elitespecs is pointless.

No, you wouldn’t, when you place an Elite Spec in the third slot you are already getting the Elite Spec, you wouldn’t get extra power on top of it, that bonus would only affect core Spec.

I like this idea. It could be really cool if they gave a special bonus based on what line was in that slot. Identical core builds could play differently depending on which you decide to boost.

Here are some ideas (thief only since that’s what I know best). Anyone have ideas for other classes?

Shadow Arts: gain stability (2s) when you enter stealth
Trickery: stealing grants quickness (3s)
Acrobatics: dodging returns 10 endurance
Deadly Arts: gain might (8s) when striking a poisoned foe (1s icd)
Critical Strikes: critical hits have a 15% chance to restore 1 initiative

Well you could removing a line chose from the core spec say for ele would be arcain line. So you could not be both a tempest and have the arcain line at the same time. That and removing a wepon that the elite spec can use so say for DH you could no longer use a staff becuse it being replaced by a 2h wepon long bow. Though this will cause a lot of “crying.”

I had an idea (similar to Jski) where our existing profession feature line would be updated to be an Elite as well (including buffs), and then mandate that the 3rd line always use an Elite line.

So Rangers would be required to carry either Beastmastery or Druid, Elementalists wold be required to carry either Arcane or Tempest, etc.

This idea may be better suited for when an additional Elite gets added so you have 3 options rather than 2.

I believe its fine as is. Just the new Elite Specs need balance patch.

Remember Elite Specs are a new way to play the classes. Thats why you lose one spec line to use it. Its a sacrifice for a new way of playing the class. So in its own self, its a new class itself from the parent class. I say balance the new classes around its own design, dont touch the parent classes.

mtpelion.4562:

I had an idea (similar to Jski) where our existing profession feature line would be updated to be an Elite as well (including buffs), and then mandate that the 3rd line always use an Elite line.

So Rangers would be required to carry either Beastmastery or Druid, Elementalists wold be required to carry either Arcane or Tempest, etc.

This idea may be better suited for when an additional Elite gets added so you have 3 options rather than 2.

Removing even more options? No thanks. We used to have access to all five lines at once (thousands of permutations). Now we have three (120 permutations). You’re suggesting we are forced into a more limited combination of three (24 permutations).

mtpelion.4562:

I had an idea (similar to Jski) where our existing profession feature line would be updated to be an Elite as well (including buffs), and then mandate that the 3rd line always use an Elite line.

So Rangers would be required to carry either Beastmastery or Druid, Elementalists wold be required to carry either Arcane or Tempest, etc.

This idea may be better suited for when an additional Elite gets added so you have 3 options rather than 2.

I do not think it should be a required to have one or the other you should be able to use genral lines over an specialization line if you want but you will be a base class. The arcane line or tempest line will just specialized you into a type of that base class. So for ele point of view arcane line is more boon aimed and maybe condtion / high burst dmg where tempest line is more healing / def aimed. So i guess make the arcane line a bit stronger to put it in line with tempest line but do not make it where you must run arcane or tempest or any elite spec 3ed line.

Zodryn.4216:

mtpelion.4562:

I had an idea (similar to Jski) where our existing profession feature line would be updated to be an Elite as well (including buffs), and then mandate that the 3rd line always use an Elite line.

So Rangers would be required to carry either Beastmastery or Druid, Elementalists wold be required to carry either Arcane or Tempest, etc.

This idea may be better suited for when an additional Elite gets added so you have 3 options rather than 2.

Removing even more options? No thanks. We used to have access to all five lines at once (thousands of permutations). Now we have three (120 permutations). You’re suggesting we are forced into a more limited combination of three (24 permutations).

I think that they’ve already proven that they can’t handle balancing the ones we have, so limiting the combinations further should actually make the game better.

Knighthonor.4061:

I believe its fine as is. Just the new Elite Specs need balance patch.

Remember Elite Specs are a new way to play the classes. Thats why you lose one spec line to use it. Its a sacrifice for a new way of playing the class. So in its own self, its a new class itself from the parent class. I say balance the new classes around its own design, dont touch the parent classes.

Well, the point was that sometimes the Elite specializations adds so much to core profession that it is worth using that elite spec line even when you are not actually playing with healing, utility or ultimate specialization skills.

However, this could be partially offset by increasing the return of core specializations when placed in the slot usually occupied by elite specs.

I don’t think this ever happen, but i DO like Arkblue idea. A lot.

Although, more than automatic buffs, I would prefer the 3d slot activate a true unique “spec mechanic”, like the Elite Specs have.

Example crazy ideas for Engie:

Scrapper→F gyro

Firearms→ Trick shot: Shot projectiles gain the ability to bounce on terrain and objects, allowing the engie to deceive their oponents and pass through their defenses.

Explosives→ Remote Detonation: Explosives don’t explode right away. Instead they gain a window during wich the engie can confirm-detonate them, leading to coordinated combos & better area deny.

Alchemy→ Concoction: using multiple Elixirs at the same time give different extra effects depending on the combination.

Tools→ Momentum Battery: Holding down the button when activating certain skills allow the engie to use Endurance as a fuel to empower attacks or improve movement skills.

Inventions→ Portable Gunnery: Turrets can be moved around similar to banners.

The new specs are a hook to get you to buy HoT. They will do nothing. With out hooks to buy HoT you wont.

mtpelion.4562:

Zodryn.4216:

mtpelion.4562:

I had an idea (similar to Jski) where our existing profession feature line would be updated to be an Elite as well (including buffs), and then mandate that the 3rd line always use an Elite line.

So Rangers would be required to carry either Beastmastery or Druid, Elementalists wold be required to carry either Arcane or Tempest, etc.

This idea may be better suited for when an additional Elite gets added so you have 3 options rather than 2.

Removing even more options? No thanks. We used to have access to all five lines at once (thousands of permutations). Now we have three (120 permutations). You’re suggesting we are forced into a more limited combination of three (24 permutations).

I think that they’ve already proven that they can’t handle balancing the ones we have, so limiting the combinations further should actually make the game better.

So some players builds should get completely destroyed just because it will make the game easier to balance?

And how do you decide which line is the “elite” one? How does help the elites are better than core problem for players shose core build doesn’t use that “elite”?

The solution doesn’t solve the problem.

Ardid.7203:

I don’t think this ever happen, but i DO like Arkblue idea. A lot.

Although, more than automatic buffs, I would prefer the 3d slot activate a true unique “spec mechanic”, like the Elite Specs have.

Example crazy ideas for Engie:

Scrapper->F gyro

Firearms-> Trick shot: Shot projectiles gain the ability to bounce on terrain and objects, allowing the engie to deceive their oponents and pass through their defenses.

Explosives-> Remote Detonation: Explosives don’t explode right away. Instead they gain a window during wich the engie can confirm-detonate them, leading to coordinated combos & better area deny.

Alchemy-> Concoction: using multiple Elixirs at the same time give different extra effects depending on the combination.

Tools-> Momentum Battery: Holding down the button when activating certain skills allow the engie to use Endurance as a fuel to empower attacks or improve movement skills.

Inventions-> Portable Gunnery: Turrets can be moved around similar to banners.

As long as they don’t have any clear winner over anything else, everything is viable.
Plus, they aren’t forced profession changes like, say, changing virtues when playing Dragon Hunter over Guardian.

You don’t want to have turrets to move around? Simply put something less input demanding like the firearm change you proposed.
It’s a win-win situation for both those who want an higher skillcap for their profession, and those who don’t.

Make profession line an elite one. Like trickery for thief so they cant mix that with daredevil, berserker with discpline etc

Burtnik.5218:

Make profession line an elite one. Like trickery for thief so they cant mix that with daredevil, berserker with discpline etc

Doesn’t solve the problem for players who do not use that trait line at all.

And adds the problem of angering everyone whose build currently includes the elite and that core trait line.

It only solves the problem for the players that currently do not use the elite, but use that chosen trait line.

I had a similar idea posted in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Proposal-regarding-Core-Classes/

The issue trying to be resolved is less reliance on Elite Specs to compete and to make more available specs as well as make them slightly unique.

“If I were making a suggestion for this it would go something like this:
- a distinction between “Specialization” and “Trait Generalization”. At any given time, from the point you unlock traits, you must have 1 Specialization. After that, you can have 2 trait gens.
- your first choice in traits then becomes your Specialization. When elite specs unlock, they are only usable as a Specialization, not a trait Generalization.
- trait gens work like the core specs now. Specializations work like elite specs now with some differences.
- elite specs are different because they unlock weapons and new utilities as well as profession mechanics. Regular specializations offer enhanced versions of utilities and profession mechanics.”

Making a slight example of Warrior again since they are the least complicated:

+Strength – Gladiator+
Become an agile pitfighter, relying on your muscle and quick reflexes to dominate in combat.

*Reckless Dodge > Reckless Dive: As a Gladiator, not only do your dodge rolls do damage, you gain the F2 skill “Dive” which is a movement skill that grants a short duration swiftness and leaps 500 distance. This recharges quickly and costs 10 strikes of adrenaline. Dive does not grant evade and is a leap finisher.

*Building Momentum > Rolling Momentum: As a Gladiator, not only do burst skills restore some of your endurance on hit, but Dive will remove 1 damaging condition (Bleeding, Burning, Confusion, Poison, Torment)

*Stick and Move > Prize Fighter: As a Gladiator, not only do you get a damage bonus while your endurance isn’t full, but using a Physical skill instantly recharges Dive.

The idea is to slightly alter the line to give it a kind of mechanic that makes playing it similar to current but unique if you decide to have choose Strength as your specialization. Perhaps you’d pair it with sword/greatsword and get a high mobility build utilizing Dive to close gaps or open them or couple Dive and physical skills so you can keep on mobile targets with weapons that lack mobility such as mace or longbow.

Leo G.4501:

I had a similar idea posted in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Proposal-regarding-Core-Classes/

The issue trying to be resolved is less reliance on Elite Specs to compete and to make more available specs as well as make them slightly unique.

“If I were making a suggestion for this it would go something like this:
- a distinction between “Specialization” and “Trait Generalization”. At any given time, from the point you unlock traits, you must have 1 Specialization. After that, you can have 2 trait gens.
- your first choice in traits then becomes your Specialization. When elite specs unlock, they are only usable as a Specialization, not a trait Generalization.
- trait gens work like the core specs now. Specializations work like elite specs now with some differences.
- elite specs are different because they unlock weapons and new utilities as well as profession mechanics. Regular specializations offer enhanced versions of utilities and profession mechanics.”

Making a slight example of Warrior again since they are the least complicated:

+Strength – Gladiator+
Become an agile pitfighter, relying on your muscle and quick reflexes to dominate in combat.

*Reckless Dodge > Reckless Dive: As a Gladiator, not only do your dodge rolls do damage, you gain the F2 skill “Dive” which is a movement skill that grants a short duration swiftness and leaps 500 distance. This recharges quickly and costs 10 strikes of adrenaline. Dive does not grant evade and is a leap finisher.

*Building Momentum > Rolling Momentum: As a Gladiator, not only do burst skills restore some of your endurance on hit, but Dive will remove 1 damaging condition (Bleeding, Burning, Confusion, Poison, Torment)

*Stick and Move > Prize Fighter: As a Gladiator, not only do you get a damage bonus while your endurance isn’t full, but using a Physical skill instantly recharges Dive.

The idea is to slightly alter the line to give it a kind of mechanic that makes playing it similar to current but unique if you decide to have choose Strength as your specialization. Perhaps you’d pair it with sword/greatsword and get a high mobility build utilizing Dive to close gaps or open them or couple Dive and physical skills so you can keep on mobile targets with weapons that lack mobility such as mace or longbow.

Yup, that’s the kind of “power budget” I was thinking. Not something so strong that it becomes mandatory, yet impactful enough to allow players to make meaningful decision.
Basically what I picture players doing when opting out of Elite Spec is this:
“I’m a Mesmer with Illusion, Dueling and Inspiration, so I’m enhancing those three components of my profession through my choices in trait lines. Now, If I wanted to get some extra power in one of these, but only one, which one would it be?”.

I loved this idea!