Guild Wars 2

Seriously, what the kitten is being done about Thieves?

This is the first time I’ve encountered one with BRAINS, and seriously, what the kitten?
4~5 guys trying to take him down and it was IMPOSSIBLE. He just wouldn’t die.

I was playing my Elementalist, and I wasn’t dying either (though I did at the very last) but he was just running around, shot a few stuff, stealthed. He’d reappear a few seconds later just to shot a few more, and run/stealth again. He did this for 5 min straight with 4~5 guys trying to take him down.

Seriously ANet?

I never thought this game to be so unbalanced so far, even though I know Thieves can have an insane burst if they want to, but insane survivability as well now?

Luckily, he wasn’t backstabbing me after his stealths, probably afraid of getting locked (I was playing Scepter/Dagger), but if he did, he’d discover I was playing a glass cannon and would’ve killed me in a couple backstabs.

Seriously… what the kitten…

Sounds like someone is a wee bit better than you and your friends.

We’re all random pugs from WvW.

And yes, the Thief plays well, but what does that mean? That just because you play well you can survive forever against 5? He had 2 friends with him too, but they were a Warrior and something else, so they did die, and he was playing around ressing them bit by bit.

I imagine a group of 10 thieves doing this just to break the kitten out of the balance of this game.
Now, that’d be fun for everyone, right?

Translation:

Dear Anet… I couldn’t kill a thief in PvP. Please nerf thieves. Oh, and Elementalists need a buff. Thanks.

yeah, this game is turning into thieves v. eles with a small smattering of mesmers so you can deal with thieves :-/

every other class is pretty much inferior

because of the the rendering issue of player characters (or whatever the technical term is) – a MAJOR bug in the game – it is currently hard to tell whether thieves and their stealth abilities are OP or not.

I play a thief and I’m not very good… getting better every day though! So if it helps you can kill me a few times.

So if someone is good you want their class nerfed down, and then what happens to the ones who aren’t as good? Become cannon fodder?

Get as good as him, you and your server/pvp mates and then challenge him again or try out what he did with your enemy.
Can’t? Maybe you didn’t try enough.
Think you’ve reached your limit and can’t get any better? Just move on a different target.
If you can’t fight the dragon, go for the lizards.

Hermes.7014:

So if someone is good you want their class nerfed down, and then what happens to the ones who aren’t as good? Become cannon fodder?

Get as good as him, you and your server/pvp mates and then challenge him again or try out what he did with your enemy.
Can’t? Maybe you didn’t try enough.
Think you’ve reached your limit and can’t get any better? Just move on a different target.
If you can’t fight the dragon, go for the lizards.

or just play a thief yourself and see if it was player skill or OPness.

First off, did he manage to kill any of you off? Sounds like he built a very tanky/annoying build. Those exist, but they don’t kill very quick either. So while he may have been annoying I highly doubt he was a threat.

Also, do any of you have cc? Daze/immobilize/stuns? IF he’s immobilized, he can die pretty quickly to 5 people hitting him.

Thirdly, did you spam aoe blindly near the group? Aoe hits thieves while they’re still stealthed. If your group consistantly lays down AOE on top of themselves while they travel, no way that thief can hit any of you.

Algreg.3629:

or just play a thief yourself and see if it was player skill or OPness.

I main Thief already. I’d say I play decently, nothing exceptional. I win and lose my battles as well.

I have a bleed/condition Thief… love playing him even though hes not as damaging as a warrior or as survivable as a guardian he is very fun to play :-)
i stealth in, Db and steal – stealth out… never tried the glass cannon backstab build, but i do worry with all the crying from pvp for a nerf it will affect my stealth ability in pvm :-(.
Then it’s a long road down hill…

Danicco.3568:

Seriously, what the kitten is being done about Thieves?

I never thought this game to be so unbalanced so far, even though I know Thieves can have an insane burst if they want to, but insane survivability as well now?

In most of the posts I’ve read regarding thieves being OP, people seem to always claim thieves can do all of this at once. As a 400+ hours thief main (no alts) you actually need to build your thief appropriately if you want to achieve either, and there’s no such thing as insane burst AND insane survivability.

A pure stealth build would take all your burst utilities out in favour of stealth skills, as well as usually trait for mostly stealth abilities. These thieves usually don’t build in terms of glass cannon, hence why their stealth prolongs their life even more. From my observations, these people usually try bleed, not sure if any others since I’ve only played glass cannon.

A pure burst build would use burst utilities, thereby removing their stealthing skills aside from their heal and cloak and dagger (if running d/d). They would also most likely spec traits to do as much damage as possible and run glass cannon. As a glass cannon myself, in full exotics – I barely reach 11k hp, and know that if i get any stealthing skills besides my heal (for the condition removal), it will reduce my damage output.

So if a thief happens to run a balanced or hybrid build, know that they will be a jack of all trades, but a master of none.

I ran into one of these kinds of Thieves today. T’was quite amusing at first, but then I was surprised at how many stealths he/she had available.

I like how strong Thieves are. I do not want them to be nerfed. I would rather each class be able to do something as “powerful” as a perma-stealth Thief. Which is not the case.

I think the biggest thing that makes these guys problems for most people is that they have nearly unlimited mobility and numerous escape mechanisms, which they should, but the fact that stealth deselects AND isn’t broken on damage is what makes this mechanic very, very powerful. To be fair, though, the guy built a troll spec and used it very well

I tried leveling a Thief. I hated it. You don’t really have much at Lv. 7 to avoid hits, so each strike against me was like someone taking a sledgehammer against aluminum. xD

I believe it is broken, a thief will never die if he has a basic understanding of his utilties. Thieves will tell you to spam AOEs around you as if they had no cooldown and could cover a mile’s radius, but thats not how it works.

Low risk, high reward class means it will be the most popular class for PVP. Tone down their countless stealth abilities and buff their sustained defense for a more balanced fight in my opinion.

aaron.7850:

Low risk, high reward class means it will be the most popular class for PVP. Tone down their countless stealth abilities and buff their sustained defense for a more balanced fight in my opinion.

Oh mah gads … frickin … gackin … Thieves are not ah low risk, high reward class – we’re a risk=reward class where people play the extremes, an why wouldn’ they? So High Risk = High Reward; Glass Cannon’s are, I tell ya, made ah Glass! Poke em an’ they break! Ain’ their fault if ya can’ figure out where ta poke. (And the renderin’ thing ain’ there fault, and it sure as hell ain’ limited ta them … anyone what has stealth is gettin’ the benefits from it.)

High Stealth is mos’ly low risk, but like someone else said, she probably ain’ killin’ anyone either … she’s mostly ah support build at that point.

I am so sick ah hearin’ this “nerf thief, nerf thief, nerf thief!” malarky! We get nurfed every time ya turn aroun’, an’ it isn’ fixin’ the whiner’s problems ‘cause half of em jus’ can’t play an’ the other half ain’ realizin’ the problem isn’ the class’s fault!

Oh oh, an’ the OP is complainin’ because he ran inta a “Thief with brains” an’ couldn’ kill it? Well burn me, someone what knows how their class works an’ uses it the right way is hard ta kill … it’s almost like it takes skill or somethin’. No sympathy here.

>Lose to player that is admitted as good/skilled
>Complain

Not quite following.

@OP, welcome to the forums. As you can see most people who play thieves dont see a problem and until Anet starts ingnoring these people thieves will be over powered.

I play a thief, I am not very good, but I find that I can normally take out 3-4 people in wvw kinda like what you described. So if a bad player like me can do it, well that shows the class is over powered.

^ Maybe those 3-4 players are even worst than you? There’s always somethings that you can kill and some that you can’t. As a thief, I can’t kill some bunker guardians, but do they need a nerf then? I say no.

@OP, maybe you should improve more on your skills and find tactics/ways to defeat a Condition Dmg P/D Thief instead of whining and trying to get a class nerfed.

So because just one person evaded you in a match you think the entire class is broken?

Sense. You’re making none.

It’s just the rendering bug. Until this is fixed we have no idea if thieves are OP or not. Even the thieves can’t tell, because how do they know if other people can’t see them due to the bug?

If the rendering bug is fixed and thieves own everyone everywhere (which they aren’t now), then sure, nerf them a bit. Until then, stop whining about a game engine problem.

@OP – So, he’s a better player and he beat you. Don’t spend time whining, spend time learning how to keep moving in combat.

Dibrom.6408:

Gilosean.3805:

Until then, stop whining about a game engine problem.

Yes, stop whining about game engine issues. It’s been 2.5 months and Anet’s close to figuring it out. L2P.

Letting ANet know problems exist is one thing. Making a post just to whine because another player was better is totally different.

Learning how to move in combat is hard! I’m not great at it, and I respect anyone who is. The OP explicitly acknowledges that the thief was better than he expected. The right response to “Someone is better than me” isn’t “That person must be handicapped!” It’s “I need to get better.”

This isn’t a bug report. It’s a rant trolling for sympathy.

Elementalist are the king of AoE. You should have less of a problem with a thief than any class in the game.

The player who was playing the Thief being good isn’t the issue. It’s the non-stealth time after you are out of stealth that is.

Instead of being a 5 second or something, it’s what, 2 seconds? This means you can easily go a bit far from someone, shot him once or twice, and re-stealth. Repeat this forever, annoy players forever.

The amount of skills isn’t the issue as well, any Thief who can understand what a combo is can permanently stealth.

Control the Thief? When he shoots, evade once/twice, re-stealth?

But well, okay, this is a rant, I’m sorry, I’ll believe Anet knows what they’re doing. It was a stupid decision of my part and shows how I still have much to learn, I shouldn’t have tried to stop the Thief and his small group from going to wherever they were going near my server’s keep.
There were plenty of other options I should’ve tried, like running away, calling for more reinforcements to deal with a single Thief, or ignoring their group.

I’m just disappointed to see a profession “favoritism” just like WoW has/have.

And for those who think “The thief was just better than you, learn to play”, you haven’t ever faced a Thief like this, I’m sure of that.
You’d see how fun it is to fight someone whom you can target for a couple of seconds (which he spents the majority of time evading) once every 6 seconds.

Facing off against thieves almost always ends with them running away.

Clearly they need nerfed. o.O

(good players don’t lose to thief — learn to count them running away as a victory)

Hermes.7014:

Algreg.3629:

or just play a thief yourself and see if it was player skill or OPness.

I main Thief already. I’d say I play decently, nothing exceptional. I win and lose my battles as well.

oh, sorry, I just was inspired by your quote, the post was directed at OP, not you

only kill thievs with my guardian is to let him attack him self by reflect power
and every thives i see out there only make me wonna lvl 1 by my self , but thives are so weak in pve !! , cant realy solo much like my guardian and my warrior

Stealth bug seems to be the problem here. He’s supposed to be visible for 3 seconds when he attacks from stealth. If you can CC him, he’s done for.

Were you guys lvl 80s in exotics? If not, take in account that he probably had a huge stat advantage.

And he wasn’t backstabbing because he played a condition build, his backstab would probably hit for about 2-3k.

I am not saying that thieves should be nerfed but there is an advantage for a class that can combine stealth with burst and life stealing and even stuns.

The burst thief can sneak up from stealth and with massive damage and life stealing food, it’s a matter of seconds. No matter your gear, when you are the target of a surprise attack by such a thief there is very little you can do before you die.

Still, I don’t ask for a nerf, because I also know that when I WvW it generally is a bad idea to walk around alone.

But I do at this time wonder if being able to stealth while in combat is entirely fair at all, especially if they have conditions on them. So not so sure about that one.

Once I saw a guardian running away with 4ppl on his back hitting him. They could not kill him. Please ANET nerf guardians.
Thieves can be pretty hard to kill if specced that way, like every other class …

lol so many things I wanna say, but I’m trying not to get infracted…

Please stop crying for nerfs because you were outclassed. Spend more time with your character, and get better. Thieves are pretty easy to destroy if you know what you’re doing.

The part you are all missing is that the problem must obviously come from class design, since the OP (and friends!) are better players then the mentioned thief. That’s a known fact and should be the basis of this discussion.

Really though, my suggestion would be to actually play a thief (and not just 10 minutes) to learn their weaknesses, that you probably just werent aware of. Otherwise sure he could have run away but not killed or posed a threat to 5 coordinated players.

The amount of get away skills thieves have is indeed too much.

They can run pretty much forever, but again, so can I as a guardian.
Except I dont put out nearly as much dmg as a thief.

Sounds like the OP was on the receiving end of this video: http://www.youtube.com/das_captcha?next=/watch%3Fv%3DzmwXAFbFQiQ%26feature%3Dyoutu.be%26pxtry%3D1

You are saying you couldn’t target him often, well so what? You don’t need a target to AoE someone. It’s my biggest fear when running in stealth that someone actually realizes that “hey, we can actually aoe this guy”, very few actually realizes this it seems. When a thief use shadow refuge you don’t want to run away from him, you want to run to the circle and aoe it before the animation ends to put much damage on him before he can escape. 90% of the times I do this I find a downed thief waiting for me or already dead after 10seconds.

Every single class in the game has soundly cried about thieves. I think there might be something to that…

I know about the rendering bug, it takes a few seconds out of stealth to render the thief, but can you tab select him even if you can not see him during this delay?

Gaslov.9164:

Every single class in the game has soundly cried about thieves. I think there might be something to that…

Yeah, none of the players tried the class. Also I think there are plenty of people from all other classes that complained about warriors. They should be nerfed by your logic.

Fix stealth, problem solved.

Thieves generally have crap for condition removal. When you see one, don’t go for the big damage early. Hit them with chills, cripples, immobilize etc. If they stealth, they’re still there, you just can’t see them.

Do this when you have friends around and the thief is alone, the thief will either die or burn any cooldowns needed to get away. What they won’t be doing is sticking around trying their luck. If they do. They’ll die.

Learn how the class works and it will help you fight them. This build relies heavily on Dagger#5 (Cloak & Dagger). To counter this use block or dodge or any immune when the Thief comes in close to melee you with Dagger#5 (it has a short animation wind up). If it misses it still takes half his initiative and they don’t gain stealth. If they miss twice in a row they are a sitting duck depending on how they build.

Put pets on passive and try to drag the fight away from random mobs as well they make easy targets for Dagger#5.

Denim Samurai.2379:

yeah, this game is turning into thieves v. eles with a small smattering of mesmers so you can deal with thieves :-/

every other class is pretty much inferior

Not warriors and guardians if specced correctly. Warriors should never be glass cannons (not that it’s possible with that armor rating and base HP, but I mean warrior with full berzerker gear and 30 points in their precision and power trees) but in PvP go toughness and crit.

There are good thiefs and bad ones, however no character should have the ability to finish you off while in stealth. Ever.
Defeats the whole idea of a downed state. Other than that, I dont mind the class.

Kuroin.1703:

Gaslov.9164:

Every single class in the game has soundly cried about thieves. I think there might be something to that…

Yeah, none of the players tried the class. Also I think there are plenty of people from all other classes that complained about warriors. They should be nerfed by your logic.

They were.

Gaslov.9164:

Every single class in the game has soundly cried about thieves. I think there might be something to that…

and every class in the game has said they can crush thieves if they play intelligently so it cancels out (:

Looks like thieves are getting nerfed (posted in thief forum):

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.