Guild Wars 2

Oh and by the way, did i mention that ASURAN TECHNOLOGY USES MAGIC!?

Dawnbreaker.6215:

not nuclear weapons.

Thoughts?

The only reason to specifically exclude the most powerful weapons humankind has developed is because you believe Mordremoth would be trivially defeated by them.

So, nukes is the strategy, and the answer is yes, modern military can take on Mordremoth.

Delivery method is tactics. I’ll let the other armchair Generals work out how to do that.

dietzero.3514:

Ashen.2907:

Foes in GW2, including dragons, are defeated by characters swinging sharpened pieces of metal. Unless Anet has decided to kill off the game that trend will likely continue.

If a group of random guys with bits of pointy metal can do the job then a modern military force would not even break a sweat. Keep in mind that no foe in this game takes more than a hundred or two (not sure exactly how many people can be in a map) people using iron age technology to defeat.

They are people wielding magic and magical items, in a magical world. Your comparison fails.

Nope.

Some people use magic and magic weapons to pull it off but such are not necessary, they just make the process go faster.

I might have read too much Heller but there are noiseless super subsonic stealth bombers (it moves faster than light, just turn a lamp on/off and see for yourself!) that can drop bombs that penetrate deep into the earth without much risk of destroying the earth itself. Mordemoth forces wouldn’t stand a chance.

“highest available technology (aka USA army)”
that made me giggle

Are Asuran forces giving the nod on this? It could be a set back for your country if so.

The scorched earth method with nukes would kill us before it kills them. The blast may damage it or destroy part of it, but the nuclear fallout would kill us. This would also be dependent on how radiation effects Mordermoth.

Mordremoth uses our world’s ley line and portal his minions to the White House.

then Justin Bieber says “If Mordremoth could attack the White House, it can attack anywhere.”

Artanis.4963:

The only reason to specifically exclude the most powerful weapons humankind has developed is because you believe Mordremoth would be trivially defeated by them.

So, nukes is the strategy, and the answer is yes, modern military can take on Mordremoth.

Delivery method is tactics. I’ll let the other armchair Generals work out how to do that.

But do we actually know that?
I was more under the impression that the OP didn’t allow nuclear weapons simply because it isn’t actually used in warfare.

Nuclear weapons are also mainly against ground targets. It is very likely that Mordremoth is still deep underground so it might avoid the nuclear blasts which would just mean that it now also have a protective area of radioactivity on top of it. Which makes further assaults even harder.

Mordremoth is only a plant, isn’t he? Nuclear weapons aren’t the most effective weapon against plants. US Army won against plants around 50 years ago with a weapon called “Agent Orange” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange). Chemical Industry has made a lot of progress killing plants since them (called Biocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biocide), so they win for sure. Only remaining question is will Humanity surive such a victory for very long?

dietzero.3514:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

dietzero.3514:

Ashen.2907:

Foes in GW2, including dragons, are defeated by characters swinging sharpened pieces of metal. Unless Anet has decided to kill off the game that trend will likely continue.

If a group of random guys with bits of pointy metal can do the job then a modern military force would not even break a sweat. Keep in mind that no foe in this game takes more than a hundred or two (not sure exactly how many people can be in a map) people using iron age technology to defeat.

They are people wielding magic and magical items, in a magical world. Your comparison fails.

His comparison doesn’t fail. While it never actually happened, I’m sure a full map of only warriors who have no inherent magical abilities or magical weapons could defeat Tequatl.

Also how did we defeat Zhaitan? Was it with magic? No, it was not, it was defeated with pure and simple superior technology. So that proves elder dragons can be defeated with superior firepower, no magic needed.

If some fancy cannons in GW2 can defeat an elder dragon, I’m pretty sure our vastly superior modern military equipment can take care of an elder dragon as well.

Zhaitan was defeated with specially designed magical anti-Elder Dragon shells, fired from an airship that our modern military cannot create.

Warrior weapons, armour and accessories are magical. Also their Signets, and probably other things. As is the giant Asura death cannon that fires on Tequila Sunrise…

His comparison also failed by calling them Iron Age, which he clearly does not know the meaning of.

Nowhere in the game or wiki does is that the cannons used to defeat Zhaitan were magical or magically-infused in any way.

And what makes you think the warrior weapons and armor are magical? Is that just your assumption or do you have some evidence/sources to back this up? I don’t think the warrior’s kitten nal is inherently magical unless you use sigils/runes with magical abilities such as the sigil of fire or sigil of air.

That said, even if everything in GW2 was magical, does that mean it would therefor be better than our real-world armor and weaponry? What makes you think magic is inherently better or more powerful than sufficiently advanced technology? To give an example, as awesome as an elementalists’ meteor shower is, I’m pretty sure a real-world nuke is a lot more powerful.

You’re right about Tyria’s technology/weaponry not being similar to the Iron Age though, Tyria is more advanced than that. I’d say the humans in Tyria are somewhere between the Late Middle Ages and the Early Modern Period.

lordkrall.7241:

Unlikely.

Considering how easy it took out the whole Pact Airship-fleet it is unlikely that air-support would be possible. The fact that it can also sprout vines more or less everywhere would make a land-assault rather dangerous as well.

Yeah everyone knows blimps are comparable to F22 Raptors in military capability.

Larynx.2453:

lordkrall.7241:

Unlikely.

Considering how easy it took out the whole Pact Airship-fleet it is unlikely that air-support would be possible. The fact that it can also sprout vines more or less everywhere would make a land-assault rather dangerous as well.

Yeah everyone knows blimps are comparable to F22 Raptors in military capability.

Pssh. The AC-130J says hello.

I find it funny how people say that the people of Tyria have tech comparable to the Middle Ages.

No technology that we have right now can beat the Dragons, that’s the answer to the question the OP made. The Asura, who are clearly more advanced than us right now unless we have golems, can use magic AND combine it with technology and can create Portals, has to make very specific weapons like the MEGA-LIT cannon which was designed by Zojja herself in order to even fight Zhaitan.

Do any of you really think anything we have right now can compare? At most, what can we do? Fire missiles and rockets at it? Pelt a gigantic magical dragon with bullets?

Ephemiel.5694:

I find it funny how people say that the people of Tyria have tech comparable to the Middle Ages.

No technology that we have right now can beat the Dragons, that’s the answer to the question the OP made. The Asura, who are clearly more advanced than us right now unless we have golems, can use magic AND combine it with technology and can create Portals, has to make very specific weapons like the MEGA-LIT cannon which was designed by Zojja herself in order to even fight Zhaitan.

Do any of you really think anything we have right now can compare? At most, what can we do? Fire missiles and rockets at it? Pelt a gigantic magical dragon with bullets?

That’s what we do with their dragon lieutenants, who aren’t that much smaller. Also, after how well the Zhaitan fight was received, I’m sure ANet will be making a similar fight for Mord…

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ephemiel.5694:

I find it funny how people say that the people of Tyria have tech comparable to the Middle Ages.

No technology that we have right now can beat the Dragons, that’s the answer to the question the OP made. The Asura, who are clearly more advanced than us right now unless we have golems, can use magic AND combine it with technology and can create Portals, has to make very specific weapons like the MEGA-LIT cannon which was designed by Zojja herself in order to even fight Zhaitan.

Do any of you really think anything we have right now can compare? At most, what can we do? Fire missiles and rockets at it? Pelt a gigantic magical dragon with bullets?

That’s what we do with their dragon lieutenants, who aren’t that much smaller. Also, after how well the Zhaitan fight was received, I’m sure ANet will be making a similar fight for Mord…

Yes, their lieutenants who have nowhere near the amount of power the Elder Dragons have. Would you like to try again?

Lot of people are forgetting a very key quote right now. “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” That applies to this ingame compared to the real world, as well as the other direction.

I mean… if you were sent back to the 1700s with only a lighter on you, people would think you’re a magician or godlike.

Basandra Skye.4031:

Lot of people are forgetting a very key quote right now. “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” That applies to this ingame compared to the real world, as well as the other direction.

I mean… if you were sent back to the 1700s with only a lighter on you, people would think you’re a magician or godlike.

Quite true, but please, tell me about technology advanced enough to raise the dead [Necromancers] or create illusions so realistic that they actually DO hurt [Mesmers].

We have explosive incendiary rounds that can be fired from a minigun now along with functioning railgun technology. Is this even a serious question? If guys with swords and bows can take down a dragon, you can bet cash money on a modern military turning it to complete dust.

JackSpacer.4320:

We have explosive incendiary rounds that can be fired from a minigun now along with functioning railgun technology. Is this even a serious question? If guys with swords and bows can take down a dragon, you can bet cash money on a modern military turning it to complete dust.

And yet another one says we took down Zhaitan with swords and bows. We took down Zhaitan with a freaking cannon that fired specialized shells. We didn’t freaking jumped into Zhaitan’s back and started stabbing him.

Interesting topic. One of the funniest limitations of modern warfare (in my opinion) is that we as a species have no way to wage war against things that burrow. We can shoot things out the sky, out near space, out the ocean, but let a squadron of moles tunnel 1 km under ground in random directions (moles probably dont go so far down) and you cant touch them.

We can apply unimaginable explosive force to any target a nuclear warhead can reach – the question thus becomes, is mordremoth’s core above or below ground?

Mordern military techniques could not deal with mordremoth’s vine system – which runs underground. Heck, there is an uber termite system which runs beneath half of Europe which got so large because there was no way to stop it! The hope would thus be that cutting off the head would kill the body.

Mordremoth is probably within bombing distance of the surface – so modern military probably could kill it. I say that Mordremoth is probably close to the surface because otherwise it would be impeding in Primordius’s territory. I’m not saying that Mordremoth fighting a subterranean war with Primodius wouldn’t be possible (or even unlikely), I just believe such a twist is above the caliber of Anet’s story – and thus wont happen.

My guess is that Mordremoth will be taken down in game by a modified version of the toxin Scarlet used to clear out Lion’s arch. If you listened to O-tron, it was stated that the toxin was laced with mist energies – the only other piece of technology to utilize mist energies was the giant cannon which Zojja shot Zhaitan with. A toxin of that potency is not something that exists in “RL”.

Gerrand.3085:

Interesting topic. One of the funniest limitations of modern warfare (in my opinion) is that we as a species have no way to wage war against things that burrow. We can shoot things out the sky, out near space, out the ocean, but let a squadron of moles tunnel 1 km under ground in random directions (moles probably dont go so far down) and you cant touch them.

We can apply unimaginable explosive force to any target a nuclear warhead can reach – the question thus becomes, is mordremoth’s core above or below ground?

Mordern military techniques could not deal with mordremoth’s vine system – which runs underground. Heck, there is an uber termite system which runs beneath half of Europe which got so large because there was no way to stop it! The hope would thus be that cutting off the head would kill the body.

Mordremoth is probably within bombing distance of the surface – so modern military probably could kill it. I say that Mordremoth is probably close to the surface because otherwise it would be impeding in Primordius’s territory. I’m not saying that Mordremoth fighting a subterranean war with Primodius wouldn’t be possible (or even unlikely), I just believe such a twist is above the caliber of Anet’s story – and thus wont happen.

My guess is that Mordremoth will be taken down in game by a modified version of the toxin Scarlet used to clear out Lion’s arch. If you listened to O-tron, it was stated that the toxin was laced with mist energies – the only other piece of technology to utilize mist energies was the giant cannon which Zojja shot Zhaitan with. A toxin of that potency is not something that exists in “RL”.

Look at how easily Mordremoth destroyed the entire Pact airship forces even AFTER they opened fire on the jungle. There’s simply no way that our IRL military forces can even get close enough to bomb him. Even if we could, the HUGE amount of Mordrem that he’d send after us would kill everyone before we did any real damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm

I’m going to say yes.

Ephemiel.5694:

[…] We took down Zhaitan with a freaking cannon that fired specialized shells. We didn’t freaking jumped into Zhaitan’s back and started stabbing him.

Zojja’s cannon didn’t fire shells, but a burst of magical energy that poisoned Zhaitan.

The cannons players use later… well… those were just pretty fireworks for celebration, seeing how none of the preset firing angles actually hits Zhaitan at all.

MithranArkanere.8957:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm

I’m going to say yes.

So, by your logic, an army of Elementalists attuned to Fire should be able to just march into the jungle and beat Mordremoth instantly.

Ephemiel.5694:

MithranArkanere.8957:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm

I’m going to say yes.

So, by your logic, an army of Elementalists attuned to Fire should be able to just march into the jungle and beat Mordremoth instantly.

Of course not.

A single elementalist can do that. We are just letting you scrubs come long for he ride so you think you actually did anything, when it’s always all elementalist the ones actually doing the real work.

We are just kind and mindful like that.

Anyone else would need napalm.

Napalm isn’t just ‘fire’ it’s a corrosive flammable jelly that sticks to everything and is not put out by water.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Ephemiel.5694:

MithranArkanere.8957:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm

I’m going to say yes.

So, by your logic, an army of Elementalists attuned to Fire should be able to just march into the jungle and beat Mordremoth instantly.

Of course not.

A single elementalist can do that. We are just letting you scrubs come long for he ride so you think you actually did anything, when it’s always all elementalist the ones actually doing the real work.

We are just kind and mindful like that.

Anyone else would need napalm.

Napalm isn’t just ‘fire’ it’s a corrosive flammable jelly that sticks to everything and is not put out by water.

Nice way of not actually saying WHY napalm would work and nice little story about everyone not doing work but the Ele, i commend you for that.

Now tell me just how can Napalm get through Mordremoth’s defenses when an entire fleet of airships barely did anything, including the very same airship that fought and destroyed Zhaitan..

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

ppl have atomic bombs enough to blow the whole world 86 times, mordremoth its like an easy task

You’re assuming an atomic bomb can do anything to a magical creature like Mordremoth. Hell, he’d likely use the energy from the bomb to grow stronger similarly to how he used to activated Lay Lines to awaken.

If you go there, there’s really no point arguing anything, let’s just assume the dragon can be killed just by players auto attacks or cannons on a flying ship

Hmm. It depends really. On how good his reaction time is. If we take the U.S. Military for example. I feel like it could sustain itself through long range weaponry pretty well. Burrowing underground and sealing it and its army in would go a long way towards negating most modern weaponry. I feel like its biggest strength would be its ability to attack from underground anywhere.

If it utilized its ability properly it could effectively bind our air force to a reactionary role. Forcing it to respond instead of giving it targets to hit.

We know that it can gather information very well. And even locate and attack strongholds from below.

Places like Fort Riley in kansas for example could be infiltrated by below. Unless we were able to monitor the vines movements underground.

Airbases could be effectively destroyed by the same tactics. Our navy on the other hand would have a bit more free reign provided there resuply and repair points could be protected. But theyd suffer the same issue as the air force. No clear targets to focus on.

I imagine the biggest issue would be locating the main body. Which orbital imagery would be perfect for I would imagine provided we knew where to point the satellite.

I guess it would be a case of. Did we know about it before it struck first. Or did it catch us by suprise.

If it struck first I imagine it could largely cripple our military while still protecting itself from our retaliatory strikes.

If we knew it was there we could have its location well mapped out. And respond accordingly.

I feel helicopters would go the same way of the pact fleet. (assuming similar air speeds)

Jets I imagine would be safe depending on how MANY wyverns mordremoth can put in the air.

If they can put tens of thousands of them in the sky. A veritable cloud. They may be an issue just from the risk of colision. I would imagine theyd be used primary as anti infantry weapons though (strafe lines of infantry while husks come from underground and swarm armor divisions)

Mordrem wolves would be a pretty big pain to deal with if we tried a ground approach. If they can close the gap the benefit of ranged weaponry goes down quite a bit. (there are times when a sword is more useful than a rifle..just the rifle is better in 99.9999% percent of situations).

In conclusion

Its a tough call. I feel like that basic ability to move underground is its biggest strength. As it protects it from the vast majority of our weapon systems. They can deposit troops while ignoring most terrain. They don’t seem to worry about food or water supply. They don’t have empathy so they can handle wars of attrition better than most humans can. (they wont have civilians screaming for the war to stop)

His vines can attack key personnel anywhere in the world. He wont be even slightly worried about fighting in metropolitan areas. (Masses of civilians makes justification of using weapons with a large effective splash radius difficult) (kinda hard to call artillery in when your fighting in NYC)

Also we know mordrem adapt pretty quickly. Creating entierly new and more specialized forms of mordrem to deal with specific threats. (husks vs slingers. The various thrasher types.)

He could develop a kind of spore that waits in the air and attacks aircraft. A bio weapon like the nightmare towers toxin he can distribute to human populations.

Theres alot of unknowns.

Khalisto.5780:

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

ppl have atomic bombs enough to blow the whole world 86 times, mordremoth its like an easy task

You’re assuming an atomic bomb can do anything to a magical creature like Mordremoth. Hell, he’d likely use the energy from the bomb to grow stronger similarly to how he used to activated Lay Lines to awaken.

If you go there, there’s really no point arguing anything, let’s just assume the dragon can be killed just by players auto attacks or cannons on a flying ship

I swear, if i see one more person say or imply that we beat Zhaitan with “auto attacks, swords, bows and normal cannons”, i’ll be convinced most people in these forums have mental kittenation.

We never attacked Zhaitan with our normal weapons, EVER. This isn’t WoW where we jumped into Deathwing’s back like a bunch of morons. We used a specially made energy cannon that fired blasts made SPECIFICALLY to counter Elder Dragons.

I could take them on all by me self

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

ppl have atomic bombs enough to blow the whole world 86 times, mordremoth its like an easy task

You’re assuming an atomic bomb can do anything to a magical creature like Mordremoth. Hell, he’d likely use the energy from the bomb to grow stronger similarly to how he used to activated Lay Lines to awaken.

If you go there, there’s really no point arguing anything, let’s just assume the dragon can be killed just by players auto attacks or cannons on a flying ship

I swear, if i see one more person say or imply that we beat Zhaitan with “auto attacks, swords, bows and normal cannons”, i’ll be convinced most people in these forums have mental kittenation.

We never attacked Zhaitan with our normal weapons, EVER. This isn’t WoW where we jumped into Deathwing’s back like a bunch of morons. We used a specially made energy cannon that fired blasts made SPECIFICALLY to counter Elder Dragons.

We did beat him with pointy sticks, auto-attacks, firearms with ranges limited to less than what a man with a baseball can manage, etc.

We then, after he was effectively beaten, closed in and killed him with cannon that might be outranged by a .22 peashooter.

You can beat a foe without killing him. His death generally just means that you won’t have to beat him again.

Mordremoth, I can all but guarantee, will be beatable by a haphazardly (at best) coordinated force of no more than a couple hundred individuals using weapons so advanced that they have ranges measured in tens of feet. Weapons that are variations on a sharpened stick, and so on.

Take two hundred people armed with swords and the like (group A) and put them up against a single rocket barrage let alone hundreds of thousands of modern combatants (group B ) whose weapons outrange them by at least an order of magnitude and whose weapons have much greater penetration, and larger area effects.

If group A, again a couple hundred people, is powerful enough to defeat Mordremoth and group B is powerful enough to defeat group A in a matter of seconds, its no contest.

Ashen.2907:

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

ppl have atomic bombs enough to blow the whole world 86 times, mordremoth its like an easy task

You’re assuming an atomic bomb can do anything to a magical creature like Mordremoth. Hell, he’d likely use the energy from the bomb to grow stronger similarly to how he used to activated Lay Lines to awaken.

If you go there, there’s really no point arguing anything, let’s just assume the dragon can be killed just by players auto attacks or cannons on a flying ship

I swear, if i see one more person say or imply that we beat Zhaitan with “auto attacks, swords, bows and normal cannons”, i’ll be convinced most people in these forums have mental kittenation.

We never attacked Zhaitan with our normal weapons, EVER. This isn’t WoW where we jumped into Deathwing’s back like a bunch of morons. We used a specially made energy cannon that fired blasts made SPECIFICALLY to counter Elder Dragons.

We did beat him with pointy sticks, auto-attacks, firearms with ranges limited to less than what a man with a baseball can manage, etc.

We then, after he was effectively beaten, closed in and killed him with cannon that might be outranged by a .22 peashooter.

You can beat a foe without killing him. His death generally just means that you won’t have to beat him again.

Mordremoth, I can all but guarantee, will be beatable by a haphazardly (at best) coordinated force of no more than a couple hundred individuals using weapons so advanced that they have ranges measured in tens of feet. Weapons that are variations on a sharpened stick, and so on.

Take two hundred people armed with swords and the like (group A) and put them up against a single rocket barrage let alone hundreds of thousands of modern combatants (group B ) whose weapons outrange them by at least an order of magnitude and whose weapons have much greater penetration, and larger area effects.

If group A, again a couple hundred people, is powerful enough to defeat Mordremoth and group B is powerful enough to defeat group A in a matter of seconds, its no contest.

Idk what you’re smoking, but it’s very effective. We NEVER fight Zhaitan like that, we fight him using the cannons on the airships and what we actually attack directly are his champions or tendrils.

Ephemiel.5694:

Ashen.2907:

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

ppl have atomic bombs enough to blow the whole world 86 times, mordremoth its like an easy task

You’re assuming an atomic bomb can do anything to a magical creature like Mordremoth. Hell, he’d likely use the energy from the bomb to grow stronger similarly to how he used to activated Lay Lines to awaken.

If you go there, there’s really no point arguing anything, let’s just assume the dragon can be killed just by players auto attacks or cannons on a flying ship

I swear, if i see one more person say or imply that we beat Zhaitan with “auto attacks, swords, bows and normal cannons”, i’ll be convinced most people in these forums have mental kittenation.

We never attacked Zhaitan with our normal weapons, EVER. This isn’t WoW where we jumped into Deathwing’s back like a bunch of morons. We used a specially made energy cannon that fired blasts made SPECIFICALLY to counter Elder Dragons.

We did beat him with pointy sticks, auto-attacks, firearms with ranges limited to less than what a man with a baseball can manage, etc.

We then, after he was effectively beaten, closed in and killed him with cannon that might be outranged by a .22 peashooter.

You can beat a foe without killing him. His death generally just means that you won’t have to beat him again.

Mordremoth, I can all but guarantee, will be beatable by a haphazardly (at best) coordinated force of no more than a couple hundred individuals using weapons so advanced that they have ranges measured in tens of feet. Weapons that are variations on a sharpened stick, and so on.

Take two hundred people armed with swords and the like (group A) and put them up against a single rocket barrage let alone hundreds of thousands of modern combatants (group B ) whose weapons outrange them by at least an order of magnitude and whose weapons have much greater penetration, and larger area effects.

If group A, again a couple hundred people, is powerful enough to defeat Mordremoth and group B is powerful enough to defeat group A in a matter of seconds, its no contest.

Idk what you’re smoking, but it’s very effective. We NEVER fight Zhaitan like that, we fight him using the cannons on the airships and what we actually attack directly are his champions or tendrils.

Exactly. We destroy his ability to wage war effectively before we ever face him. He, as a viable power ceased to exist before we actually killed him.

FYI, as mentioned previously, you dont have to kill someone, or even attack them personally, to defeat them. The Big Six and Emperor Hirohito were still alive (and hadnt been directly attacked) when they were defeated.

Ashen.2907:

Ephemiel.5694:

Ashen.2907:

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

ppl have atomic bombs enough to blow the whole world 86 times, mordremoth its like an easy task

You’re assuming an atomic bomb can do anything to a magical creature like Mordremoth. Hell, he’d likely use the energy from the bomb to grow stronger similarly to how he used to activated Lay Lines to awaken.

If you go there, there’s really no point arguing anything, let’s just assume the dragon can be killed just by players auto attacks or cannons on a flying ship

I swear, if i see one more person say or imply that we beat Zhaitan with “auto attacks, swords, bows and normal cannons”, i’ll be convinced most people in these forums have mental kittenation.

We never attacked Zhaitan with our normal weapons, EVER. This isn’t WoW where we jumped into Deathwing’s back like a bunch of morons. We used a specially made energy cannon that fired blasts made SPECIFICALLY to counter Elder Dragons.

We did beat him with pointy sticks, auto-attacks, firearms with ranges limited to less than what a man with a baseball can manage, etc.

We then, after he was effectively beaten, closed in and killed him with cannon that might be outranged by a .22 peashooter.

You can beat a foe without killing him. His death generally just means that you won’t have to beat him again.

Mordremoth, I can all but guarantee, will be beatable by a haphazardly (at best) coordinated force of no more than a couple hundred individuals using weapons so advanced that they have ranges measured in tens of feet. Weapons that are variations on a sharpened stick, and so on.

Take two hundred people armed with swords and the like (group A) and put them up against a single rocket barrage let alone hundreds of thousands of modern combatants (group B ) whose weapons outrange them by at least an order of magnitude and whose weapons have much greater penetration, and larger area effects.

If group A, again a couple hundred people, is powerful enough to defeat Mordremoth and group B is powerful enough to defeat group A in a matter of seconds, its no contest.

Idk what you’re smoking, but it’s very effective. We NEVER fight Zhaitan like that, we fight him using the cannons on the airships and what we actually attack directly are his champions or tendrils.

Exactly. We destroy his ability to wage war effectively before we ever face him. He, as a viable power ceased to exist before we actually killed him.

FYI, as mentioned previously, you dont have to kill someone, or even attack them personally, to defeat them. The Big Six and Emperor Hirohito were still alive (and hadnt been directly attacked) when they were defeated.

What the heck do they have to do with Mordremoth, a DRAGON?

Only thing we really did was destroy the Eyes and Mouths of Zhaitan which didn’t really weaken him personally, we merely stopped his vision and magic supply. We took the gamble of going directly to him on an airship in a fight that we couldn’t have won otherwise [since Zhaitan could simply revive any of our soldiers into Risen] and it happened to work thanks to the Zojja designing those cannons. By the way, in a realistic fight [since we’re talking about real military fighting Mordremoth], all Zhaitan needed to do was slam us with his tail and bye bye airship or just send his Risen army on the offensive.

So far nothing that people have said has been good enough to beat Mordremoth.

We advanced on all fronts into his home territory, destroying everything he could muster to stop us. He couldnt even slow us down. He couldnt stop 200 or so people, many armed with medieval equipment, from destroying his base of operations. Not even all of those people were actively fighting him.

If you cannot prevent your enemy from occupying your home territory. If your enemy can criss cross your home territory at will. If you cannot even slow the invasion of your home territory. If your enemy can destroy your strongest forces at will. You have already been defeated and are just waiting for your enemy to get around to putting you down like a rabid dog.

Ashen.2907:

We advanced on all fronts into his home territory, destroying everything he could muster to stop us. He couldnt even slow us down. He couldnt stop 200 or so people, many armed with medieval equipment, from destroying his base of operations. Not even all of those people were actively fighting him.

If you cannot prevent your enemy from occupying your home territory. If your enemy can criss cross your home territory at will. If you cannot even slow the invasion of your home territory. If your enemy can destroy your strongest forces at will. You have already been defeated and are just waiting for your enemy to get around to putting you down like a rabid dog.

Idk if you realized this, but the only reason why managed to push in was for the sake of the game’s story. Or do you really think that Zhaitan is so stupid that he never thought “hmm…maybe i should go on the offensive and charge Fort Trinity with everything i got”.

And by the way, i don’t think turrets, elemental magic, necromancy and energy cannons are “medieval equipment”.

Ephemiel.5694:

Ashen.2907:

We advanced on all fronts into his home territory, destroying everything he could muster to stop us. He couldnt even slow us down. He couldnt stop 200 or so people, many armed with medieval equipment, from destroying his base of operations. Not even all of those people were actively fighting him.

If you cannot prevent your enemy from occupying your home territory. If your enemy can criss cross your home territory at will. If you cannot even slow the invasion of your home territory. If your enemy can destroy your strongest forces at will. You have already been defeated and are just waiting for your enemy to get around to putting you down like a rabid dog.

Idk if you realized this, but the only reason why managed to push in was for the sake of the game’s story. Or do you really think that Zhaitan is so stupid that he never thought “hmm…maybe i should go on the offensive and charge Fort Trinity with everything i got”.

And by the way, i don’t think turrets, elemental magic, necromancy and energy cannons are “medieval equipment”.

It happened. He failed to stop us. We succeeded in every single objective. We farmed in his back yard and he couldnt even slow us down.

By the way I said, “many,” not, “all.” Based on past depictions of relative popularity of the classes, supported by popularity of given weapons on the TP, it would have been reasonable to say, “most.”

It is still a matter of story.
The only reason we defeated Zhaitan was that the story stopped it from actually acting logically.

It could easily have wiped out the whole offensive of Orr within hours of us starting it. But since the story need to have us beat it, it did not do that.

As long as the military can see his attack circles, I think we might have an advantage? With enough stamina, should be simple enough to dodge roll his attacks.

Also depends on whether he respawns or not?
Whether he scales with the number of people fighting him… etc.

lordkrall.7241:

It is still a matter of story. The only reason we defeated Zhaitan was that the story stopped it from actually acting logically.

It could easily have wiped out the whole offensive of Orr within hours of us starting it. But since the story need to have us beat it, it did not do that.

On what do you base this statement?

IndigoSundown.5419:

lordkrall.7241:

It is still a matter of story. The only reason we defeated Zhaitan was that the story stopped it from actually acting logically.

It could easily have wiped out the whole offensive of Orr within hours of us starting it. But since the story need to have us beat it, it did not do that.

On what do you base this statement?

The fact that Zhaitan controls countless Risen and he could simply have charged them at us. Or you know, come down himself and instantly destroy us at Fort Trinity.

The only reason we even got into Arah was cause it’s a game and we HAD to reach it. If Zhaitan wanted, he could’ve charged his full forces on us at Fort Trinity similarly to how he did it in Claw Island, only much stronger.

I think a lot of people have missed an important aspect here... If Mor is a structure, then radiation, poison fire (napalm) is all going to be useless.

Ephemiel.5694:

IndigoSundown.5419:

lordkrall.7241:

It is still a matter of story. The only reason we defeated Zhaitan was that the story stopped it from actually acting logically.

It could easily have wiped out the whole offensive of Orr within hours of us starting it. But since the story need to have us beat it, it did not do that.

On what do you base this statement?

The fact that Zhaitan controls countless Risen and he could simply have charged them at us. Or you know, come down himself and instantly destroy us at Fort Trinity.

The only reason we even got into Arah was cause it’s a game and we HAD to reach it. If Zhaitan wanted, he could’ve charged his full forces on us at Fort Trinity similarly to how he did it in Claw Island, only much stronger.

A flight of gunships would have chewed up the entire Claw Island invasion. Now, if you want to postulate forces and capabilities beyond what the Dragons actually demonstrated in game, then that’s on you.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ephemiel.5694:

IndigoSundown.5419:

lordkrall.7241:

It is still a matter of story. The only reason we defeated Zhaitan was that the story stopped it from actually acting logically.

It could easily have wiped out the whole offensive of Orr within hours of us starting it. But since the story need to have us beat it, it did not do that.

On what do you base this statement?

The fact that Zhaitan controls countless Risen and he could simply have charged them at us. Or you know, come down himself and instantly destroy us at Fort Trinity.

The only reason we even got into Arah was cause it’s a game and we HAD to reach it. If Zhaitan wanted, he could’ve charged his full forces on us at Fort Trinity similarly to how he did it in Claw Island, only much stronger.

A flight of gunships would have chewed up the entire Claw Island invasion. Now, if you want to postulate forces and capabilities beyond what the Dragons actually demonstrated in game, then that’s on you.

You mean the gunships we didn’t have yet because the Pact wasn’t formed? Oh yeah, they could’ve defended Claw Island way better. Thank you for showing how uninformed you are and how desperate you are to prove your point.

Ephemiel.5694:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ephemiel.5694:

IndigoSundown.5419:

lordkrall.7241:

It is still a matter of story. The only reason we defeated Zhaitan was that the story stopped it from actually acting logically.

It could easily have wiped out the whole offensive of Orr within hours of us starting it. But since the story need to have us beat it, it did not do that.

On what do you base this statement?

The fact that Zhaitan controls countless Risen and he could simply have charged them at us. Or you know, come down himself and instantly destroy us at Fort Trinity.

The only reason we even got into Arah was cause it’s a game and we HAD to reach it. If Zhaitan wanted, he could’ve charged his full forces on us at Fort Trinity similarly to how he did it in Claw Island, only much stronger.

A flight of gunships would have chewed up the entire Claw Island invasion. Now, if you want to postulate forces and capabilities beyond what the Dragons actually demonstrated in game, then that’s on you.

You mean the gunships we didn’t have yet because the Pact wasn’t formed? Oh yeah, they could’ve defended Claw Island way better. Thank you for showing how uninformed you are and how desperate you are to prove your point.

No, not those gunships. Modern military gunships … you, know, the topic of the thread?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ephemiel.5694:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ephemiel.5694:

IndigoSundown.5419:

lordkrall.7241:

It is still a matter of story. The only reason we defeated Zhaitan was that the story stopped it from actually acting logically.

It could easily have wiped out the whole offensive of Orr within hours of us starting it. But since the story need to have us beat it, it did not do that.

On what do you base this statement?

The fact that Zhaitan controls countless Risen and he could simply have charged them at us. Or you know, come down himself and instantly destroy us at Fort Trinity.

The only reason we even got into Arah was cause it’s a game and we HAD to reach it. If Zhaitan wanted, he could’ve charged his full forces on us at Fort Trinity similarly to how he did it in Claw Island, only much stronger.

A flight of gunships would have chewed up the entire Claw Island invasion. Now, if you want to postulate forces and capabilities beyond what the Dragons actually demonstrated in game, then that’s on you.

You mean the gunships we didn’t have yet because the Pact wasn’t formed? Oh yeah, they could’ve defended Claw Island way better. Thank you for showing how uninformed you are and how desperate you are to prove your point.

No, not those gunships. Modern military gunships … you, know, the topic of the thread?

Would they have defended Claw Island? Yes. Would be able to fight either Zhaitan or Mordremoth? No. That’s the truth and that’s it.

If you want to keep being blind and try to disprove that, you can do so.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

And what makes you think the warrior weapons and armor are magical? Is that just your assumption or do you have some evidence/sources to back this up?

I would like to address this right quick, as it’s actually important to the discussion.

Let’s look at how you make a weapon in Tyria, for example a sword. You have a metal blade, and a metal hilt, and that’s pretty standard. But then, as you join them together, you also use a third item. And that third item is made of metal and/or wood, infused with things like claws, fangs, or blood. That third part right there? That’s the magical part.

Any decent weapons or armor in Tyria that we (our characters) can make is infused with such things. The magic is built in. And that’s before we get into the fact that some of the materials at higher levels are also magical by themselves. (Ever hear of mundane mithril or orichalcum?) That’s why the most powerful bows and pistols have wooden parts made from ancient trees, when in a mundane world other types of wood would be better.

Now, it’s important to remember all this, because it means that our modern military could quickly adapt to use such magical materials. A full clip of mithril bullets pumped into someone is going to mess them up, even if the gun shooting them is mundane. And if smearing harpy blood onto a missile will allow it to kill a dragon, then I’m pretty sure they’d be willing to do that. They wouldn’t be using the magic WELL, but when combined with their modern weapons, they don’t really need to. They just need it to punch through the “immune to non-magical damage” barrier.

Mordremoth is different to Zhaitan. Zhaitan feed through his minions, while Mordremoth feeds directly. It would be impossible to starve him like we did to Zhaitan.

Ephemiel.5694:

Ashen.2907:

Ephemiel.5694:

Ashen.2907:

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

ppl have atomic bombs enough to blow the whole world 86 times, mordremoth its like an easy task

You’re assuming an atomic bomb can do anything to a magical creature like Mordremoth. Hell, he’d likely use the energy from the bomb to grow stronger similarly to how he used to activated Lay Lines to awaken.

If you go there, there’s really no point arguing anything, let’s just assume the dragon can be killed just by players auto attacks or cannons on a flying ship

I swear, if i see one more person say or imply that we beat Zhaitan with “auto attacks, swords, bows and normal cannons”, i’ll be convinced most people in these forums have mental kittenation.

We never attacked Zhaitan with our normal weapons, EVER. This isn’t WoW where we jumped into Deathwing’s back like a bunch of morons. We used a specially made energy cannon that fired blasts made SPECIFICALLY to counter Elder Dragons.

We did beat him with pointy sticks, auto-attacks, firearms with ranges limited to less than what a man with a baseball can manage, etc.

We then, after he was effectively beaten, closed in and killed him with cannon that might be outranged by a .22 peashooter.

You can beat a foe without killing him. His death generally just means that you won’t have to beat him again.

Mordremoth, I can all but guarantee, will be beatable by a haphazardly (at best) coordinated force of no more than a couple hundred individuals using weapons so advanced that they have ranges measured in tens of feet. Weapons that are variations on a sharpened stick, and so on.

Take two hundred people armed with swords and the like (group A) and put them up against a single rocket barrage let alone hundreds of thousands of modern combatants (group B ) whose weapons outrange them by at least an order of magnitude and whose weapons have much greater penetration, and larger area effects.

If group A, again a couple hundred people, is powerful enough to defeat Mordremoth and group B is powerful enough to defeat group A in a matter of seconds, its no contest.

Idk what you’re smoking, but it’s very effective. We NEVER fight Zhaitan like that, we fight him using the cannons on the airships and what we actually attack directly are his champions or tendrils.

Exactly. We destroy his ability to wage war effectively before we ever face him. He, as a viable power ceased to exist before we actually killed him.

FYI, as mentioned previously, you dont have to kill someone, or even attack them personally, to defeat them. The Big Six and Emperor Hirohito were still alive (and hadnt been directly attacked) when they were defeated.

What the heck do they have to do with Mordremoth, a DRAGON?

Only thing we really did was destroy the Eyes and Mouths of Zhaitan which didn’t really weaken him personally, we merely stopped his vision and magic supply. We took the gamble of going directly to him on an airship in a fight that we couldn’t have won otherwise [since Zhaitan could simply revive any of our soldiers into Risen] and it happened to work thanks to the Zojja designing those cannons. By the way, in a realistic fight [since we’re talking about real military fighting Mordremoth], all Zhaitan needed to do was slam us with his tail and bye bye airship or just send his Risen army on the offensive.

So far nothing that people have said has been good enough to beat Mordremoth.

Nearly every depicted dragon in any story/lore/movie/book has been defeated…. Again if magic is the defense, there is nothing anyone can say cause well…. “magic”. So I dont know what you are expecting. But again nearly every other dragon has been defeated with modern tech or simple things like spears.

Magic vs RL, is an exercise of futility.

As we all know from Harry Potter books, Muggle technology goes haywire when near powerful magic.
Therefore => no.
QED :P

Rollingonit.1309:

Ephemiel.5694:

Ashen.2907:

Ephemiel.5694:

Ashen.2907:

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

Ephemiel.5694:

Khalisto.5780:

ppl have atomic bombs enough to blow the whole world 86 times, mordremoth its like an easy task

You’re assuming an atomic bomb can do anything to a magical creature like Mordremoth. Hell, he’d likely use the energy from the bomb to grow stronger similarly to how he used to activated Lay Lines to awaken.

If you go there, there’s really no point arguing anything, let’s just assume the dragon can be killed just by players auto attacks or cannons on a flying ship

I swear, if i see one more person say or imply that we beat Zhaitan with “auto attacks, swords, bows and normal cannons”, i’ll be convinced most people in these forums have mental kittenation.

We never attacked Zhaitan with our normal weapons, EVER. This isn’t WoW where we jumped into Deathwing’s back like a bunch of morons. We used a specially made energy cannon that fired blasts made SPECIFICALLY to counter Elder Dragons.

We did beat him with pointy sticks, auto-attacks, firearms with ranges limited to less than what a man with a baseball can manage, etc.

We then, after he was effectively beaten, closed in and killed him with cannon that might be outranged by a .22 peashooter.

You can beat a foe without killing him. His death generally just means that you won’t have to beat him again.

Mordremoth, I can all but guarantee, will be beatable by a haphazardly (at best) coordinated force of no more than a couple hundred individuals using weapons so advanced that they have ranges measured in tens of feet. Weapons that are variations on a sharpened stick, and so on.

Take two hundred people armed with swords and the like (group A) and put them up against a single rocket barrage let alone hundreds of thousands of modern combatants (group B ) whose weapons outrange them by at least an order of magnitude and whose weapons have much greater penetration, and larger area effects.

If group A, again a couple hundred people, is powerful enough to defeat Mordremoth and group B is powerful enough to defeat group A in a matter of seconds, its no contest.

Idk what you’re smoking, but it’s very effective. We NEVER fight Zhaitan like that, we fight him using the cannons on the airships and what we actually attack directly are his champions or tendrils.

Exactly. We destroy his ability to wage war effectively before we ever face him. He, as a viable power ceased to exist before we actually killed him.

FYI, as mentioned previously, you dont have to kill someone, or even attack them personally, to defeat them. The Big Six and Emperor Hirohito were still alive (and hadnt been directly attacked) when they were defeated.

What the heck do they have to do with Mordremoth, a DRAGON?

Only thing we really did was destroy the Eyes and Mouths of Zhaitan which didn’t really weaken him personally, we merely stopped his vision and magic supply. We took the gamble of going directly to him on an airship in a fight that we couldn’t have won otherwise [since Zhaitan could simply revive any of our soldiers into Risen] and it happened to work thanks to the Zojja designing those cannons. By the way, in a realistic fight [since we’re talking about real military fighting Mordremoth], all Zhaitan needed to do was slam us with his tail and bye bye airship or just send his Risen army on the offensive.

So far nothing that people have said has been good enough to beat Mordremoth.

Nearly every depicted dragon in any story/lore/movie/book has been defeated…. Again if magic is the defense, there is nothing anyone can say cause well…. “magic”. So I dont know what you are expecting. But again nearly every other dragon has been defeated with modern tech or simple things like spears.

Magic vs RL, is an exercise of futility.

And what the heck do i care about dragons in any stories/lore/etc? If it was like that, then dragons would suck. In Drakengard, Angelus [the red dragon you ride] is killed by jets in the ending that leads to the game NIER. We’re talking about Mordremoth fighting modern military. The point stands that they’d lose if they fought him.