Guild Wars 2

Pleurodesed.7625:

Suddenflame.2601:

The bigger question is why do you need a PVP server when there is WvW?
There isn’t questing in this game (only hearts and they are limited) so you can’t use that excuse. Both contain monsters, mining, and events. The only major difference would be that there is world bosses in the PVE servers. In those cases you would not want to have your PVP checkbox on (since that’s the largest suggestion here) as you would get murdered fast from all the AOE and miss out on the reward.

Basically, the only thing that you can do differently in a PVP server from the WvW server would be griefing low level players or griefing events. Either case is negative to the community.

By questing I meant the hearts and the events, also implying the size of Tyria and all the travelling.
When fighting with more people it is evident you’d need to uncheck the PvP box; but that’s the whole point of it.
The thing I’m trying to defend here is you’d be able to PvP in the open whilst simultaneously doing PvE.
With the PvP box you wouln’t be able to grief events nor players.
If you can think of a single situation in which you would be able to, please share.

As you just said you would have uncheck that box for world bosses. Right there is a major grief. As well WvW is PVE with PVP. There are events in WvW already. As well lore wise PVP servers are not possible.

As well as history of games has taught us even with said check box griefing will still be done. Also, how many people do you think would actually be playing with the checkbox on? I doubt very many. As well it is not 2 lines of code more like 2000 with all the checks that need to be done.

i really…really hope they introduce a PvP server, that finally gets rid of all the annoying duel threads and ppl whining about how they what to “test their gear”….

What happens for example with buffs ? Normally you share buffs to all your next players.
No if a player attacks you he is maybe buffed by your buffs while doing that. So to protect against that all flagged player must maybe be totally immun to get buffed by any other player.

Or what if you want to team wit other players to gank others ? You are both flagged so you will maybe all the time also make friendly fire on the player you want to play with ..

sorudo.9054:

i really…really hope they introduce a PvP server, that finally gets rid of all the annoying duel threads and ppl whining about how they what to “test their gear”….

Name of the Server : Trashbin

Pleurodesed.7625:

maddoctor.2738:

Those “team flags” are not available for players though, they are only available for mobs. From a design side, adding a new variable for players might very well require a completely new field on their database (to hold the team flag) something that is certainly not as easy to do.

How come not? Why would the devs decide to make such a terrible design decision?
How then do they differentiate the greens in WvW? It’s most likely that a camp shares team with its holder. What makes you think otherwise?

Its not horrible design. i can explain how this works easily. In the database for WvW there is information holding your home server. This is what is used for the checks. Your suggestion for a check box requires 2 checks however as it has to compare every player with your checkbox and your checkbox with every player. In WvW it only has to compare server with server which is a lot easier to do.

Pleurodesed.7625:

maddoctor.2738:

Those “team flags” are not available for players though, they are only available for mobs. From a design side, adding a new variable for players might very well require a completely new field on their database (to hold the team flag) something that is certainly not as easy to do.

How come not? Why would the devs decide to make such a terrible design decision?
How then do they differentiate the greens in WvW? It’s most likely that a camp shares team with its holder. What makes you think otherwise?

That’s a server flag, and it’s completely different. Unless you want to use server flags in PVE too. Oh wait, they are ALREADY used in PVE, just open your guild roster and you will see them, so those can’t be used for the PVE dueling.

So which variable will be used to store your Duel status? A new one, which means recreating their entire user database.

Database upgrades are the hardest to implement and rightfully so, like for example the PVP locker, it can’t be upgraded to hold multiple quantities of the skins due to the constraints of the database field used to store that info.

And now you want to add a completely new entry to the user database, rework and migrate a database of a few milion accounts, and call it easy and simple?

From a simple Database design the idea of the duel flags isn’t easy to implement, at all. Unless they have some hidden placeholder entries for “future” content (which they might have but who knows)

Beldin.5498:

Gank Squads can simply harass all Meta Events since they scale the event up and even kill the players that want to make the event.

Since all skills work as open AoE skills it would also be hard to change that they can decide between targets that are flaged and those that are not.

In the end its just wasted developer time .. people who want that kind of game should simply play AION or whatever ..

All these points are invalidated by the PvP safety toggle.
AoE skills don’t attack green players.

Pleurodesed.7625:

Beldin.5498:

Gank Squads can simply harass all Meta Events since they scale the event up and even kill the players that want to make the event.

Since all skills work as open AoE skills it would also be hard to change that they can decide between targets that are flaged and those that are not.

In the end its just wasted developer time .. people who want that kind of game should simply play AION or whatever ..

All these points are invalidated by the PvP safety toggle.
AoE skills don’t attack green players.

But they buff them.

maddoctor.2738:

Pleurodesed.7625:

maddoctor.2738:

Those “team flags” are not available for players though, they are only available for mobs. From a design side, adding a new variable for players might very well require a completely new field on their database (to hold the team flag) something that is certainly not as easy to do.

How come not? Why would the devs decide to make such a terrible design decision?
How then do they differentiate the greens in WvW? It’s most likely that a camp shares team with its holder. What makes you think otherwise?

That’s a server flag, and it’s completely different. Unless you want to use server flags in PVE too. Oh wait, they are ALREADY used in PVE, just open your guild roster and you will see them, so those can’t be used for the PVE dueling.

So which variable will be used to store your Duel status? A new one, which means recreating their entire user database.

Database upgrades are the hardest to implement and rightfully so, like for example the PVP locker, it can’t be upgraded to hold multiple quantities of the skins due to the constraints of the database field used to store that info.

And now you want to add a completely new entry to the user database, rework and migrate a database of a few milion accounts, and call it easy and simple?

From a simple Database design the idea of the duel flags isn’t easy to implement, at all. Unless they have some hidden placeholder entries for “future” content (which they might have but who knows)

Finally someone else who understands databases! This is correct, but I doubt any of the future content reserved space in the database is boolean or integer based (since you decide those during the design phase).

Pleurodesed.7625:

Beldin.5498:

Gank Squads can simply harass all Meta Events since they scale the event up and even kill the players that want to make the event.

Since all skills work as open AoE skills it would also be hard to change that they can decide between targets that are flaged and those that are not.

In the end its just wasted developer time .. people who want that kind of game should simply play AION or whatever ..

All these points are invalidated by the PvP safety toggle.
AoE skills don’t attack green players.

The number of checks needed for this would be terrible. You would need to check for everything to even make this feasible.

Edit: let me elaborate on this. To make this possible the servers would check to see if your in PVP mode or in safe mode than it would have it compare it with every other player every time a person checked or unchecked the safety toggle. This means potentially over 3million checks on the first day. Then you have to place checks for when 1 person is in safety and the other person isn’t just to figure out how they interact with each other.

Pleurodesed.7625:

Beldin.5498:

Gank Squads can simply harass all Meta Events since they scale the event up and even kill the players that want to make the event.

Since all skills work as open AoE skills it would also be hard to change that they can decide between targets that are flaged and those that are not.

In the end its just wasted developer time .. people who want that kind of game should simply play AION or whatever ..

All these points are invalidated by the PvP safety toggle.
AoE skills don’t attack green players.

Green Players do not exist at the moment, so that all must first be implemented, and nobody knows before what problems will be connected with that and what kind of exploits other players will find out very fast.

I remember the thing in Lineage 2 where you normally went first purple if you attacked another player, if the player attacked back he went also purple and then you were fine to fight against each other. Now if the other player didn’t fight back and you continued to attack you went red .. and that was bad.

Now people asked player to get buffed from others .. while the player was buffing they got attacked and now they went purple because they buffed an hostile player and could safely be killed.

Things like that some people always find out real fast.

Suddenflame.2601:

maddoctor.2738:

Pleurodesed.7625:

maddoctor.2738:

Those “team flags” are not available for players though, they are only available for mobs. From a design side, adding a new variable for players might very well require a completely new field on their database (to hold the team flag) something that is certainly not as easy to do.

How come not? Why would the devs decide to make such a terrible design decision?
How then do they differentiate the greens in WvW? It’s most likely that a camp shares team with its holder. What makes you think otherwise?

That’s a server flag, and it’s completely different. Unless you want to use server flags in PVE too. Oh wait, they are ALREADY used in PVE, just open your guild roster and you will see them, so those can’t be used for the PVE dueling.

So which variable will be used to store your Duel status? A new one, which means recreating their entire user database.

Database upgrades are the hardest to implement and rightfully so, like for example the PVP locker, it can’t be upgraded to hold multiple quantities of the skins due to the constraints of the database field used to store that info.

And now you want to add a completely new entry to the user database, rework and migrate a database of a few milion accounts, and call it easy and simple?

From a simple Database design the idea of the duel flags isn’t easy to implement, at all. Unless they have some hidden placeholder entries for “future” content (which they might have but who knows)

Finally someone else who understands databases! This is correct, but I doubt any of the future content reserved space in the database is boolean or integer based (since you decide those during the design phase).

I’m actually working on Databases myself and the single worst line a client might give me is “it’s a simple new field to add”, of course after the project is finished and the database is already working… makes me RAGE

If you can’t see why open pvp would have a big performance hit, take a few friends with you and go stand in the middle of an event with 20+ players, then you and your friends all trigger a costume brawl.

then watch the stream of obscenities every player will yell at you as everyone’s performance completely bottoms out.

that’s a really small hit compared to what you’d experience if those same number of pvp players had access to real builds with all the conditions, boons, fields and finishers.

maddoctor.2738:

Suddenflame.2601:

maddoctor.2738:

Pleurodesed.7625:

maddoctor.2738:

Those “team flags” are not available for players though, they are only available for mobs. From a design side, adding a new variable for players might very well require a completely new field on their database (to hold the team flag) something that is certainly not as easy to do.

How come not? Why would the devs decide to make such a terrible design decision?
How then do they differentiate the greens in WvW? It’s most likely that a camp shares team with its holder. What makes you think otherwise?

That’s a server flag, and it’s completely different. Unless you want to use server flags in PVE too. Oh wait, they are ALREADY used in PVE, just open your guild roster and you will see them, so those can’t be used for the PVE dueling.

So which variable will be used to store your Duel status? A new one, which means recreating their entire user database.

Database upgrades are the hardest to implement and rightfully so, like for example the PVP locker, it can’t be upgraded to hold multiple quantities of the skins due to the constraints of the database field used to store that info.

And now you want to add a completely new entry to the user database, rework and migrate a database of a few milion accounts, and call it easy and simple?

From a simple Database design the idea of the duel flags isn’t easy to implement, at all. Unless they have some hidden placeholder entries for “future” content (which they might have but who knows)

Finally someone else who understands databases! This is correct, but I doubt any of the future content reserved space in the database is boolean or integer based (since you decide those during the design phase).

I’m actually working on Databases myself and the single worst line a client might give me is “it’s a simple new field to add”, of course after the project is finished and the database is already working… makes me RAGE

If it was in MS Access it would be simple to add but in a pure SQL server hell no lol.

maddoctor.2738:

I’m actually working on Databases myself and the single worst line a client might give me is “it’s a simple new field to add”, of course after the project is finished and the database is already working… makes me RAGE

Yeah .. not that it is a problem to add that field .. but find all querys that give false values suddenly and update them all .. that is always the horror.

And then people wonder about unexpected bugs suddenly.

I give up. You’re just inventing virtual complications to bury the idea of open pvp just because you don’t like it. There’s no point debating further.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

GrandmaFunk.3052:

If you can’t see why open pvp would have a big performance hit, take a few friends with you and go stand in the middle of an event with 20+ players, then you and your friends all trigger a costume brawl.

then watch the stream of obscenities every player will yell at you as everyone’s performance completely bottoms out.

that’s a really small hit compared to what you’d experience if those same number of pvp players had access to real builds with all the conditions, boons, fields and finishers.

Better yet get the entire server to take part in the custom brawl and watch the server slow to a crawl and possibly crash and that is without real skills. Hell minipets even took a huge hit on the servers to the point they had to put code in just to restrict them.

Pleurodesed.7625:

I give up. You’re just inventing virtual complications to bury the idea of open pvp just because you don’t like it. There’s no point debating further.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

There has never been a point in debating from the start, since this is simply not an open PvP game.

I could also just start a thread about that i want WoW Style Graphic, Raids and neverending Item Progression .. or i could better just play the original Game that gives me that.

Or i can ask that they make Minecraft out of this game .. or Super Mario .. or Battlstar Galactica ..

Pleurodesed.7625:

I give up. You’re just inventing virtual complications to bury the idea of open pvp just because you don’t like it. There’s no point debating further.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

We are not inventing virtual complications but presenting real ones that would occur. I am a computer scientist which means I study and perform all forms of coding and algorithm analysis. Your simple 2-lines were not simple 2 lines but a massive amount of checks and a database update. In the coding you have to define the relationship between the players. In this case your building an entire new relationship. Which by the way is not simple to do and can cause a huge amount of unwanted side effects. This is why PVP servers are generally kept separate from PVE servers as there is a major performance hit along with other issues. Another thing is PVP servers are hardly ever added after the fact. Even when they are the game was already expecting to put them it in meaning they already have a placeholder for all the data required for it.

What would happen if ANet just changed a few lines of code to make the implementation of persistent world PvP a reality?

As has been seen time and time again with MMO’s, changing one line of code can and does break things that no one would have predicted. Bugs that neither you nor I would be likely to predict would appear.

Fan sites and fans would criticize the studio for deviating from their plan.

The studio would be criticized because the PvP is not embedded in the game’s lore.

The studio would be roundly criticized for doing a half-baked job. Don’t say it wouldn’t happen. Players criticize MMO developers for everything under the sun. Giving critical players more ammunition in the form of a radical change to game-play style that was not thoroughly thought out and tested is just not a good idea.