Guild Wars 2

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Kirschsahne.2081:

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Kirschsahne.2081:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

sean.6058:

Agreed. The trinity is a better system than what we currently have.

Why would you think that?

Because it’s a ROLE PLAYING GAME !!!!!!

The whole purpose is to play roles.

Players who currently (for the most part) heal themselves play just as much a role as a dedicated healer by keeping themselves alive! We do not need some other dedicated healer to do that for us since the current system has proven that (unless you are bad at the game). That is the role of a self-healer, to stay alive and take down the enemy.

Thank godness A-Net has a different opinion and i share it.
We DO need more roles and we will have it.
Just get used to it. Maybe you are looking more for these new Japanese MMo’s with 30 feet long great swords to swing all day long.

Again… The current ‘self-heal’ system (for already said reasons) has proven we do not need/require a dedicated healer in the game.

Furthermore, why do you feel the need to bring up irrelevancies in your argument that do absolutely nothing to support it? Japanese MMORPGs with 30-foot long Greatswords have absolutely nothing to do with this discussion!

How do you expect anybody to take your argument seriously when you don’t even take what you’re arguing seriously?

P.S. On a technical note, GW2 has its share of ridiculously impossible-to-wield weapons, too, so what’s your point?

Back in the pre-release hype, Anet made some rather impressive statements about class design. I’m too lazy to look up the sources, but I’ll summarize them. Basically, there are 3 main roles. Control, Support, and DPS. Tank is just a lazy way to make a controller. Healer is just a lazy way to make a supporter. And DPS need not be exclusive with the other two.

I gave them big props on that, especially since I remember Old School EQ, where there were 4 required roles (Controller, Tank, Healer, DPS). Anyone who remembers the Enchanter, Druid or Bard from that game knows the value of control, and how much there is to it beyond mere tanking.

Then came release, and we all saw what system Anet actually deployed. They took away the trinity, and replaced it with nothing. Not only that, they even took active steps to prevent control from happening, ie Defiance. Not only did they remove the roles, they BLOCKED them from even being possible.

Which brings me to the following quote, which I heartily agree with.

sean.6058:

Agreed. The trinity is a better system than what we currently have.

Considering that the Trinity itself is crap, that just highlights how bad GW2 PVE is. The GW2 class system was designed for spvp. All other game modes have been sub-par as a result. “Better then what we have” is a VERY low bar (relating to PVE). Yes, even the trinity, that horrid and cliched system of limitations, makes the cut.

So basically people have, again, no idea that there’s different roles already for each class, just in a different way? Okay, not like that’s anything new.

Also, you were always able to play how you want. It’s your fault for not starting your own groups and/or joining berserker parties when not running berserker.

As a water spec ele, i already am a healer for a while

I’m gonna reserve judgement until my hot.

I feel like i should mention, though, that there’s been no stated intention/hints at rebalancng older content and what i’ve seen of verdant brink in the weekend events hasn’t made it look like there will be any place for a tank or healer in open world content (more than there already is, anyway – i just finished a fourth world completion on a character who is extremely tanky and it worked quite well in every event i got involved in)

my prediction is that tanks or healers will only be necessary in raids, if even there. If ANet balances things extraordinarily well, we might see them being useful in other content but they will not be required.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

So basically people have, again, no idea that there’s different roles already for each class, just in a different way? Okay, not like that’s anything new.

Wrong. Actually, a great many of us do understand there are different roles for each class already, just in a different way, and that’s great! It is great because the current self-heal system allows each and every player to play out their primary roles while having to rely only on themselves to stay alive (for the most part) when it comes to healing, and that is a lot more fun than having someone else holding your hand doing all the healing for you who you are not always sure is going to do a good job of it!

That is why if you want a job done right how you want it, do it yourself! And what way is better than the self-heal way to ensure that? At least you know if you die it is, more so than not, because of you and not somebody else. My point is if you do a terrible job healing, you can improve your gameplay, yet if somebody else does a terrible job healing, you cannot always improve their gameplay (if at all).

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Also, you were always able to play how you want. It’s your fault for not starting your own groups and/or joining berserker parties when not running berserker.

Of course many of us have played how we wanted. Furthermore, just because certain players do not choose to run with a berserker group does not mean they are at fault for anything, and does not mean they have never started their own groups by running setups other than berserker. Sure. Berserk may seem like the only way, yet that does not mean it is the only way…

However, I fear Healers are generally going to be, or seem to be, too much of the only way more so than the Berserker way, and that is what I do not want to see.

Turamarth.3248:

Kirschsahne.2081:

Odin of Ark.4860:

Pretty much, dungeons still clear too fast for a druid to be effective with heals.

I would say it’s the opposite.
Finally you have the chance to play the dungeons as intended.

As intended?
The dungeons were designed with no trinity in mind.
GW2 was advertised as having no hard trinity of dd, healer and tank.

And it still doesnt’ have a trinity because there’s no way for a tank to hold aggro. It was advertised with a soft trinity which included support.

Druid is support. What’s the issue?

Vayne.8563:

Turamarth.3248:

Kirschsahne.2081:

Odin of Ark.4860:

Pretty much, dungeons still clear too fast for a druid to be effective with heals.

I would say it’s the opposite.
Finally you have the chance to play the dungeons as intended.

As intended?
The dungeons were designed with no trinity in mind.
GW2 was advertised as having no hard trinity of dd, healer and tank.

And it still doesnt’ have a trinity because there’s no way for a tank to hold aggro. It was advertised with a soft trinity which included support.

Druid is support. What’s the issue?

Actually, aggro is related to two things; outgoing damage and your toughness stat.
On a zerk necro with enough cavalier pieces to get my toughness up to around 3k, champs stick to me for the entire fight.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

So basically people have, again, no idea that there’s different roles already for each class, just in a different way? Okay, not like that’s anything new.

Wrong. Actually, a great many of us do understand there are different roles for each class already, just in a different way, and that’s great! It is great because the current self-heal system allows each and every player to play out their primary roles while having to rely only on themselves to stay alive (for the most part) when it comes to healing, and that is a lot more fun than having someone else holding your hand doing all the healing for you who you are not always sure is going to do a good job of it!

That is why if you want a job done right how you want it, do it yourself! And what way is better than the self-heal way to ensure that? At least you know if you die it is, more so than not, because of you and not somebody else. My point is if you do a terrible job healing, you can improve your gameplay, yet if somebody else does a terrible job healing, you cannot always improve their gameplay (if at all).

Oh, I was mainly talking to those people who said that we “finally get roles” and whatnot.
What I wanted to say though is that each class does different things anyway. If all classes were the same, we could just stack 5 warriors/any other class and call it a day. Each class brings different options, yep, and with that they bring different kinds of support. Which I why I don’t understand when people say “all classes are the same/there are no different roles” – This clearly stems from the fact that people are looking at stat combinations too much and not enough at their skills and what they can do with them.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Also, you were always able to play how you want. It’s your fault for not starting your own groups and/or joining berserker parties when not running berserker.

Of course many of us have played how we wanted. Furthermore, just because certain players do not choose to run with a berserker group does not mean they are at fault for anything, and does not mean they have never started their own groups by running setups other than berserker. Sure. Berserk may seem like the only way, yet that does not mean it is the only way…

However, I fear Healers are generally going to be, or seem to be, too much of the only way more so than the Berserker way, and that is what I do not want to see.

Again, there were people here who implied that they couldn’t play like they want to because of the “bad berserker meta”. It also seems you misunderstood me: I never meant that people are at fault for playing something else, but it’s likely they’re at fault for getting kicked from, lets say, berserker advertised groups when joining as something else.
Berserker is far from being the only way, but it’s the most efficient way, which is how it should be in a game like this. You’re supposed to rely on your skills to survive; both dodging and proper use of active defense like reflects and blocks. Defensive gear in PvE is more of a safety net (though I don’t like it, as going full berserker immediately forces you to play at your best, so you learn the most as you’re not allowed to kitten up badly) and that is how it should be in GW2. You can either throw your passive defense out of the window for the highest risk and highest reward, or you play safe and take longer. Expecting five defensive builds (for example) to be as fast as five berserkers is just weird.
I mean, with water fields you already were able to heal rather well, soo…

Kirschsahne.2081:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

sean.6058:

Agreed. The trinity is a better system than what we currently have.

Why would you think that?

Because it’s a ROLE PLAYING GAME !!!!!!

The whole purpose is to play roles.

…yet I would bet that you don’t roleplay in game.

Kirschsahne.2081:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

sean.6058:

Agreed. The trinity is a better system than what we currently have.

Why would you think that?

Because it’s a ROLE PLAYING GAME !!!!!!

The whole purpose is to play roles.

ahem. I think you’ll find it’s not a rolesplaying game. just a roleplaying game.

That role is dps. (/s)

Narrrz.7532:

Kirschsahne.2081:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

sean.6058:

Agreed. The trinity is a better system than what we currently have.

Why would you think that?

Because it’s a ROLE PLAYING GAME !!!!!!

The whole purpose is to play roles.

ahem. I think you’ll find it’s not a rolesplaying game. just a roleplaying game.

That role is dps. (/s)

That changed today

Kirschsahne.2081:

Sorin.4310:

Weren’t the intent of dungeons to be played how people wanted? I’d say they’ve been played as intended for 3 years (ignoring exploits – all dungeon content can be done in full zerker no exploits). Everyone may not be played how you want, but they are being played as intended.

Being excluded because you don’t want to play like someone else want to is not intended, no.

Yes, it is. Raids are built on excluding most of the playerbase, that’s literally their entire point.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Kirschsahne.2081:

Sorin.4310:

Weren’t the intent of dungeons to be played how people wanted? I’d say they’ve been played as intended for 3 years (ignoring exploits – all dungeon content can be done in full zerker no exploits). Everyone may not be played how you want, but they are being played as intended.

Being excluded because you don’t want to play like someone else want to is not intended, no.

Yes, it is. Raids are built on excluding most of the playerbase, that’s literally their entire point.

We are talking Dungeons here. Thank you.

I highly doubt you can dodge all the opponents in raids like they do in dungeons

Narrrz.7532:

I’m gonna reserve judgement until my hot.

I feel like i should mention, though, that there’s been no stated intention/hints at rebalancng older content and what i’ve seen of verdant brink in the weekend events hasn’t made it look like there will be any place for a tank or healer in open world content (more than there already is, anyway – i just finished a fourth world completion on a character who is extremely tanky and it worked quite well in every event i got involved in)

my prediction is that tanks or healers will only be necessary in raids, if even there. If ANet balances things extraordinarily well, we might see them being useful in other content but they will not be required.

They already mentioned the core game will maybe getting dusty.
And that HoT will require the new kind of classes.

Well if you stick in old core content you don’t need the specs at all i guess.
Just stick around with some no money free to play guys and enjoy.

Kirschsahne.2081:

Narrrz.7532:

I’m gonna reserve judgement until my hot.

I feel like i should mention, though, that there’s been no stated intention/hints at rebalancng older content and what i’ve seen of verdant brink in the weekend events hasn’t made it look like there will be any place for a tank or healer in open world content (more than there already is, anyway – i just finished a fourth world completion on a character who is extremely tanky and it worked quite well in every event i got involved in)

my prediction is that tanks or healers will only be necessary in raids, if even there. If ANet balances things extraordinarily well, we might see them being useful in other content but they will not be required.

They already mentioned the core game will maybe getting dusty.
And that HoT will require the new kind of classes.

Well if you stick in old core content you don’t need the specs at all i guess.
Just stick around with some no money free to play guys and enjoy.

That’s the correct attitude. First congratulate Anet on a change that might very well backfire insanely and will create even more grouping problems (but who cares, you will likely be one of the first to leave the game once it turns sour).

Then turn on players from one of the most beneficial (and reinvigorating population wise) changes to the game with a belittling comment. You Sir are right on track.

Kirschsahne.2081:

Sorin.4310:

Weren’t the intent of dungeons to be played how people wanted? I’d say they’ve been played as intended for 3 years (ignoring exploits – all dungeon content can be done in full zerker no exploits). Everyone may not be played how you want, but they are being played as intended.

Being excluded because you don’t want to play like someone else want to is not intended, no.

Wow. So you think raids will be different?

Let me clue you in – being excluded because somebody doesn’t want to play with you is perfectly fine since everyone has a right to play with whomever they want.
If I want to play with only meta players – and you’re not a meta player – I’m well within my rights to exclude you – in fact – it’s you that doesn’t have the right to force me to play with you.

Simple as that – if most players want to play a certain way and you don’t – you have no right to force them to take you along if they don’t want to – if the way you want to play is not popular – tough luck – find people who want to play your way or change your way of playing.

It is nobody’s obligation to play with you and make you feel special.

Kirschsahne.2081:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Kirschsahne.2081:

Sorin.4310:

Weren’t the intent of dungeons to be played how people wanted? I’d say they’ve been played as intended for 3 years (ignoring exploits – all dungeon content can be done in full zerker no exploits). Everyone may not be played how you want, but they are being played as intended.

Being excluded because you don’t want to play like someone else want to is not intended, no.

Yes, it is. Raids are built on excluding most of the playerbase, that’s literally their entire point.

We are talking Dungeons here. Thank you.

I highly doubt you can dodge all the opponents in raids like they do in dungeons

So just because you might not dodge all damage means you can’t exclude? Lol.

Also dungeons are the same as raids and the same as all content – you can pick and choose whomever you want to play with you. Read above.

People want success to be guaranteed, or if it can’t be guaranteed, then to be as likely as they can make it.
Most people also want to succeed as expediently as possible.

If you somehow convey that you will impair one or both of those aims, then you are liable to get kicked.
If you don’t want to be kicked, take steps to do or learn to do whatever is needed to comply with those aims.

If that means a departure from your preferred playstyle, find a group of like-minded and/or similarly skilled players who you can play with as regularly as you desire, and in the way you find most enjoyable.

You do not have the right to foist yourself on others and expect them to adapt for you. If you are kicked from a group specifying certain requirements that you don’t meet, you are not the victim. You are the one attempting to victimise other players who are playing the game as they want to.

Please don’t do that

I’m a little disappointed with the full coming of the trinity. Even if the Scrapper is interesting, he doesn’t strike me as a pure tank. However, the druid seems to be a full-time healer, and there isn’t many a reason for me to play GW2, which wasn’t tuned toward it for years, instead of another game which had.

I like the idea of ranger, my first GW2 character, finally being able to do something worthy for my guild and not having to sit her out because we need power or support plus it will be nice to bring a healer. My guildees are very casual, play lots of games, but we do love clearing dungeons. It will be nice to have exclusive tank/healer roles.

Remember all, change is difficult especially if you love the game you’re playing. I went through it with SWTOR. Cut them some flak.

The problem is that having tanks and healer will be mandatory in HoT. Even in the open world. And that’s not something I want. I’m a casual player, who don’t do farming, dungeons crawling or any kind of PvP, because all those activities bore me to death. Exploring the world of Tyria, facing challenges during even solo events, that’s what interest me in the game.

Now, it appears that it won’t be possible anymore. If I’ll try to go to someplace, it will be gated behind an event where at least on healer will be necessary to clear, or perhaps a tank to control the mobs. That’s not what brought me to GW2, not what made me stay. Again, there is plenty of games out there with a Trinity which are ftp and works just fine. GW2 is (was?) different, and homogenization isn’t a good thing. Ever.

Still, I’ll play HoT, because I want to experience it, to see how the game has and will evolve. But I sure do hope that if I want to play without any healer nor tank, I’ll be able to clear all the casual pve content.

Narrrz.7532:

People want success to be guaranteed, or if it can’t be guaranteed, then to be as likely as they can make it.
Most people also want to succeed as expediently as possible.

If you somehow convey that you will impair one or both of those aims, then you are liable to get kicked.
If you don’t want to be kicked, take steps to do or learn to do whatever is needed to comply with those aims.

If that means a departure from your preferred playstyle, find a group of like-minded and/or similarly skilled players who you can play with as regularly as you desire, and in the way you find most enjoyable.

You do not have the right to foist yourself on others and expect them to adapt for you. If you are kicked from a group specifying certain requirements that you don’t meet, you are not the victim. You are the one attempting to victimise other players who are playing the game as they want to.

Please don’t do that

Exactly this – I’m tired of PHIW players pushing themselves into parties that don’t want to and posing as victims of other people simply exercising their rights – rights that the PHIWs want respected when it comes to their case but rights they won’t bother to respect for others.