Guild Wars 2

On top of playing Guild Wars 2, I also play a game many of you may be familiar with called EVE Online. One of the features of EVE online, or rather its community, is something called the Council of Stellar Management. Basically this is a group of players elected to interface directly with both the general public and CCP (the company that makes the game) to bring attention to issues, concerns, or suggestions the community has. It has been a big success for that game and was thinking something like this could also benefit Guild Wars 2 as well.

More info on how it works here:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM

Anyone else have thoughts on this, staff or community?

If they’re already not responding/communicating enough with us as their playerbase I doubt a CSM would work, although I do wish there was some form of representation for us. I honestly think they would gain alot from the approach CCP took.

The trouble is how would you go about electing the representatives when there is very little public recognition of players outside of niche tournament streaming. There are no killboards, no massive in game alliances and a non-existent blogging community.

The other problem is bias. Players want everything easily.

Also monthly fee. Eve online has one, so it works out for them.

MarzAttakz.9608:

If they’re already not responding/communicating enough with us as their playerbase I doubt a CSM would work, although I do wish there was some form of representation for us. I honestly think they would gain alot from the approach CCP took.

The trouble is how would you go about electing the representatives when there is very little public recognition of players outside of niche tournament streaming. There are no killboards, no massive in game alliances and a non-existent blogging community.

You have a point. As it stands, the only people likely to get elected are people who yell the loudest on the forums and perhaps some commanders that spend and inordinate amount of time in WvW. May be something that becomes a more viable option down the road.

I suggest that Arenanet are not interested in getting too involved with the playerbase. They have consistently shown a disregard for our views. The communication from them is the worst I have ever seen in my 15 years of online MMO gaming.

The fact that they decided to make an official forum for Guild Wars 2 when they didn’t for Guild War would indicate otherwise.

PowerCat.5738:

The other problem is bias. Players want everything easily.

That in itself is a bias and a huge stereotype… I’ve always been a player that prefers skill = rewards, especially in a game that’s supposed to be skill-based, rather than farm/grind and you shall get what you want.

phlemhacker.1372:

The fact that they decided to make an official forum for Guild Wars 2 when they didn’t for Guild War would indicate otherwise.

Not quite. Making an official forum allowed them to keep the majority of forum goers in one place, where they have absolute control over censorship. Back in GW1 times where there were only fan forums, they had little control over administration of the community, and as such the community was more autonomous.

Heinel.6548:

phlemhacker.1372:

The fact that they decided to make an official forum for Guild Wars 2 when they didn’t for Guild War would indicate otherwise.

Not quite. Making an official forum allowed them to keep the majority of forum goers in one place, where they have absolute control over censorship. Back in GW1 times where there were only fan forums, they had little control over administration of the community, and as such the community was more autonomous.

So they’re pretty much the game company version of China when it comes to censoring stuff they don’t like? On topic I don’t think a CSM would benefit the players anymore than what the current forums are. Remember for the CSM to actually be a functional entity Anet would have to listen first which going by they’re current forum record isn’t happening. The reason it worked so well for EVE Online is because even before the CSM was established CCP was already listening to the playerbase in the forums. The CSM was basically introduced to help mediate between the Devs and playerbase. Which once again Anet is lacking in.

phlemhacker.1372:

As it stands, the only people likely to get elected are people who yell the loudest on the forums and perhaps some commanders that spend and inordinate amount of time in WvW. May be something that becomes a more viable option down the road.

I don’t know about you but id nominate/vote for dulfy right off and look into other members of the community that are helpful and know what they are talking about

Ned Stark.9356:

for the CSM to actually be a functional entity Anet would have to listen first which going by they’re current forum record isn’t happening.

^unfortunately this is how it is, if there was a CSM, we would get more than 3 days notice before they pushed out bad content, and a chance to influence future design/implementation, but they don’t seem to want that, at the moment it looks like they are trying to make the best Skinner box possible with what they have.

every time ive seen them talk about “progression” its been to obfuscate undesirable changes, having a involved CSM means they cant mask whatever they are trying to pull with PR BS, so in addition to being gagged under an NDA , they probably wouldn’t get any input till just prior to the general population, with the CSM reaction used as a means to judge how best to spin the developments.

phlemhacker.1372:

One of the features of EVE online, or rather its community, is something called the Council of Stellar Management.

Which would be horrible for the Guild Wars 2 community.

EVE Online is different from any other MMO in the world. It requires a lot more thought, preparation, and intelligence. As a result, the community is not only significantly smaller than that of any of the successful mainstream MMOs, but also significantly better. They can have direct access to the developers since they are smart enough to have this kind of privilege.

All other MMOs communities, in comparison, are incredibly immature, self centered, and simply not as smart. They do not have the ability to help the game if they had more direct access to the developers. GW2 is not exception to that.

To be honest, I made this post before sifting through a lot of threads, and I definitely do not see an abundance of logical thinking gracing the forums. That said, I still think something like this could be useful. Now obviously, I wouldn’t expect an exact copy of the CSM and I apologize if that is the impression I gave. It could be a group of people ArenaNet finds competent, the community finds competent, or a combination of both. It would be up to them, I don’t make the game I only play it, and they would have a much better insight as to how implement it.

phlemhacker.1372:

To be honest, I made this post before sifting through a lot of threads, and I definitely do not see an abundance of logical thinking gracing the forums. That said, I still think something like this could be useful. Now obviously, I wouldn’t expect an exact copy of the CSM and I apologize if that is the impression I gave. It could be a group of people ArenaNet finds competent, the community finds competent, or a combination of both. It would be up to them, I don’t make the game I only play it, and they would have a much better insight as to how implement it.

If it’s still by democracy then the current GW2 community is not up to the task. If it’s not by democracy then why have a CSM at all?

Well the community has made it abundantly clear that they feel ArenaNet hasn’t been listening to their woes and delegating some people to listen for them and sift through all the crap would let them focus on actually making the game.

The strongest point for having a CSM is holding ArenaNet accountable for their actions, nothing more, nothing less. My respect for CCP skyrocketed when their CEO made a public apology. That in itself was historical.

Hello,

I am amazed that some ppl play this game after having expeienced EVE, i myself like to do trial runs in other mmo´s and i kinda like GW2 , its a nice game, very well done and for explorers very beautyful e.c.t.

I just dont see how the game will grow.

I mean playing Eve for a while, and knowing that eve online is the ONLY mmo ever to write its own history, based on things that have happened ingame .

Now with Dust coming there will be nothing impossible to do, the sandbox makes it real. how to compete with something like that?

EVE FTW.

DocTronix.7235:

Hello,

I am amazed that some ppl play this game after having expeienced EVE, i myself like to do trial runs in other mmo´s and i kinda like GW2 , its a nice game, very well done and for explorers very beautyful e.c.t.

I just dont see how the game will grow.

I mean playing Eve for a while, and knowing that eve online is the ONLY mmo ever to write its own history, based on things that have happened ingame .

Now with Dust coming there will be nothing impossible to do, the sandbox makes it real. how to compete with something like that?

EVE FTW.

I played Eve for 2+ years. What I can say about it is: I think eve has the best concepts/ideas in an mmo, however, it’s often boring and a waste of time. Spending time carrier ratting etc to get money for war in which you end up sitting around for 3hrs only to get blue balled is so fun (sarcasm). Also, eve can easily take over your life, the fact that something can happen to your stuff at all times is awesome, but also can be stressful. This results in alarm clock ops, etc. not to mention, the times when you miss out in fun because you were logged out.

The difference between Eve and GW2 for me is: in GW2 you can have fun the moment you log in and only play for an hr, then log with no worries. If you did that with eve, you’d just be ratting or have enough time to roam around looking for a fight to little
avail.

This is my personal opinion however, I’m sure different people have different experiences.

TL:DR- Eve has great concepts, but requires a lot of time to have fun and most is ‘wait’. GW2 fun is more instant, but is simpler.

I think any mmo world offers natural ways for players and developers to negotiate leasing and/or squatter’s rights. At the most basic level we negotiate with the yes or no vote of opening and closing our coin purse. The CoSM works for EVE because CCP designed a game with very low narrative dissonance, of course capsuleers negotiate with CCP in a board room. As well, the long-cycle subscription business model favors long-cyle negotiating.

How do Tyrians negotiate with Arenanet et al? Besides the cash-shop, I think we are using the basic principle of soap boxing in the town commons, a very short-cycle wave form. I would describe time for cash as a short-cycle wave form as well. Overlay the two and add the wave form for the pay-out of surprise (not a negative) and wheels spin in place and metaphors start smoking!

I think the official forums are what we have to work with and the work we need to do is raise the level of dialogue. Whoever argued that only capsuleers could manage negotiating failed to account for Tyrian capsuleers. I found this thread through the AMA thread. I think evolving a long-cycle AMA would be a good place to start. However, our efforts will be meaningless if the ArenaNet et al. does not offer something that looks like a new way for developers to negotiate. We are all outside of our comfort zone.

I would definitely say that it would go a very long way if ArenaNet managed to get a bit more active on the forums rather then just spouting out an errant comment or two. That said I realize they aren’t that large of a company and have a lot of work to do as well, so I can’t necessarily say I am surprised they haven’t, nor do I harbor disappointment by it.

Oh, yeah jut what we need a GW2 Mittani…. no thank you.

yurtshone.7325:

I suggest that Arenanet are not interested in getting too involved with the playerbase. They have consistently shown a disregard for our views. The communication from them is the worst I have ever seen in my 15 years of online MMO gaming.

^ This, honestly. I don’t think I could have said it better. I came here from Rift, and the Developer communication was amazing. We could interface with them directly on the forums (where they were seen regularly addressing player concerns and general questions), or via frequent live streams in which they gave players a preview of what was coming up.

This is just bad. The only person we see on the boards with any frequency is Gaile… and last I checked, wasn’t Regina supposed to be the CM? It feels like getting any kind of official response to anything- and I mean anything- is like pulling teeth. The CM from Rift was the biggest forum troll ever; you’d see the guy all the time. Server goes down, he posts about it. A sudden concern from the playerbase about something new that was introduced (perfect example would’ve been the ascended gear debacle) would be addressed in short order… not days later. And it would be a simple, straight answer, not the “PR speak” we’ve become so accustomed to here.

Yes, ANet has shown and continues to show a clear disregard for the players… and I wouldn’t expect to see that change any time soon.

phlemhacker.1372:

I would definitely say that it would go a very long way if ArenaNet managed to get a bit more active on the forums rather then just spouting out an errant comment or two. That said I realize they aren’t that large of a company and have a lot of work to do as well, so I can’t necessarily say I am surprised they haven’t, nor do I harbor disappointment by it.

I agree that realistic limitations can not be ignored. However, I genuinely believe that the developer that offers a coherent strategy for fan-sourcing will ‘win’.