Guild Wars 2

I know grind is a direction that Anet is taking. Imo its breaking their manifesto it half, no microscopic bits and piece. Its too bad.
For example:
1. Ascended gear grinding
2. Laundrell grinding
3. Dungeon grinding
4. Gold Grinding
5. World Event grinding

What do you think about the direction?

Old Direction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZGC2eDwwWg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZMJ3sw_IcY

New Direction:

~blank nothingness~

You already thoroughly beat this dead horse in this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/In-my-view-gw2-is-geartrademill/first

Do you really need to do it again?

Grind? In GW2? It’s pretty kitten docile compared to the grind in 99% of other MMORPGs.

Let’s face it. There is a grind, admit it, accept it, BUT it is not necessary to grind in order play the game.

It’s time to stop making these kinds of threads. Seriously.

Afternoon – I can see your axe needs GRINDING! Hahahahahahahah.

After the manifesto-clinging-raging-crying (which goes on today) do you think we will be ever told anything about the future direction of the game again?

Thanks for that folks.

Happyfool.8951:

Let’s face it. There is a grind, admit it, accept it, BUT it is not necessary to grind in order play the game.

I see the issue a bit further than this. There is a grind in the game that you do not have to participate in. But there is only so much content in the game because they use this grind to keep people in the game rather than incorporate enough content to keep people engaged.

sostronk.8167:

But there is only so much content in the game because they use this grind to keep people in the game rather than incorporate enough content to keep people engaged.

Newsflash: There’s no such thing as “infinite content”. Whether hidden behind a grind or not, content is ALWAYS finite. ALWAYS.

Laurels = grind. You might not mind doing them, but it kills 30 minutes or more for me each day. Not doing laurels would be stupid.

So the suggestion is to create content to resolve the issue of needing more content, nice – elegant!

I like to view it this way – my wife has plenty of content to enjoy, most of the players we encounter have stuff they do and enjoy, I run fractals in my sleep while forum warrioring.

I don’t think I’m the normal/average/mean customer – the wife probably is.

Currently the only grind i have is self imposed. That being said it’s mild. I suppose if i was grinding towards a Legendary or Ascended i might have gone insane already but that’s not much current objective. That being said some of the recipes are bad because of the rate of acquisition of the materials used to make them and that needs to be looked into.

It’s a legitimate topic of discussion. If you think that discussions about grind should be taboo and require your personal moderation, then you must think most topics are completely pointless and deserve the same response.

I doubt that, however, and I think people argue against even discussing this because they’re overly defensive about GW2…. I like the game too. So does the OP otherwise he wouldn’t even be posting.

That being said, grind is anything you’re somehow obligated to do that is obtained through niche and generally unfun (to the person doing them) activities. Ascended gear is a straight up objective improvement on your character that can only be obtained by doing a limited number of things, most of which the average person would rather not be doing.

In addition, Ascended gear isn’t just something you can go out of your way for a day or two to get. Ascended gear takes a large amount of time and dedication to get, so it’s not just a case of just doing things you don’t want to do. It’s a case of doing things you don’t want to do over a long period of time.

The usual argument against my above statements is that “you can do anything with exotic gear so it’s not a grind!”. Objectively speaking, you can do anything at level 78 with all masterwork items. However, you still will have a much easier time with lv 80 Exotic gear. It’s a case of whether or not you want you game to be entirely skill based or a skill/gear hybrid. I, and I would imagine most players, would prefer their wins and losses to be entirely based on their own skill level rather than part skill level/part gear level. The reason getting Exotic gear is not a grind is because you can play in any way, doing whatever you want to do, and still be able to get full Exotic gear. Events (karma), dungeons, WvW, crafting, trading post (gold), and in a reasonable amount of time.

The OP needs to understand context. The entire paragraph in the manifesto talkes about grinding to level, not grinding for gear. Nothing about vertical progression at all.

Colin is CLEARLY talking about how in other games you have to level to max level to get to something fun, ie, raids.

Guild Wars 2 gives you big, open world bosses in starter zones. You dont’ have to grind to get to the fun bits. That’s what hes’ saying.

In no way did he say there’d be no grind in the game.

Context is important. You can’t take one word out of an entire paragraph and ignore the rest of the paragraph. This is precisely what the OP has done.

The manifesto isn’t lying. People need to learn how to read.

darkace.8925:

sostronk.8167:

But there is only so much content in the game because they use this grind to keep people in the game rather than incorporate enough content to keep people engaged.

Newsflash: There’s no such thing as “infinite content”. Whether hidden behind a grind or not, content is ALWAYS finite. ALWAYS.

But there is such a thing as “engaging content”, which is something that removes the grind. To give an example, I am and ex LoL player and basically your doing the same thing every time you play with very little variation. Yet at not one stage did I even as much as think of the word grind. And this is even in reference to player vs AI type game as I know player vs player does bring with it alot of variation.

Let’s just say GW2 used to be better before they introduced ascended. The sheer amount of currencies introduced for this item tier alone speaks how badly designed they are.

Alarox.4590:

It’s a legitimate topic of discussion. If you think that discussions about grind should be taboo and require your personal moderation, then you must think most topics are completely pointless and deserve the same response.

I doubt that, however, and I think people argue against even discussing this because they’re overly defensive about GW2…. I like the game too. So does the OP otherwise he wouldn’t even be posting.

That being said, grind is anything you’re somehow obligated to do that is obtained through niche and generally unfun (to the person doing them) activities. Ascended gear is a straight up objective improvement on your character that can only be obtained by doing a limited number of things, most of which the average person would rather not be doing.

In addition, Ascended gear isn’t just something you can go out of your way for a day or two to get. Ascended gear takes a large amount of time and dedication to get, so it’s not just a case of just doing things you don’t want to do. It’s a case of doing things you don’t want to do over a long period of time.

The usual argument against my above statements is that “you can do anything with exotic gear so it’s not a grind!”. Objectively speaking, you can do anything at level 78 with all masterwork items. However, you still will have a much easier time with lv 80 Exotic gear. It’s a case of whether or not you want you game to be entirely skill based or a skill/gear hybrid. I, and I would imagine most players, would prefer their wins and losses to be entirely based on their own skill level rather than part skill level/part gear level. The reason getting Exotic gear is not a grind is because you can play in any way, doing whatever you want to do, and still be able to get full Exotic gear. Events (karma), dungeons, WvW, crafting, trading post (gold), and in a reasonable amount of time.

Thank you for understanding my point

Leo Paul.1659:

Let’s just say GW2 used to be better before they introduced ascended. The sheer amount of currencies introduced for this item tier alone speaks how badly designed they are.

Exactly.

What amazes me is how people can argue in favor of Ascended gear without listing one single kitten way it makes the game better for the player.

Not one single reason. None.

Heijincks.9267:

Grind? In GW2? It’s pretty kitten docile compared to the grind in 99% of other MMORPGs.

A little bit of a bad thing is still a bad thing. I can give you a ridiculous sum of analogies.

sostronk.8167:

But there is such a thing as “engaging content”, which is something that removes the grind.

That’s entirely subjective. A game either engages you, or it doesn’t. This is true of all games, regardless of the amount of content. But we’re not talking about subjective grinds…“I enjoy it, so it isn’t a grind” vs “I hate it, so it is a grind.” We’re talking* about objective grinds; treadmills on which players must run if they wish to participate in varying aspect of the game. This game doesn’t have any of those.

• At least we would be talking about required grinds if TC had bothered to actually formulate any kind of an argument…had given actual substantive reasons for his statements… instead of making a vague post created solely to start an argument.

Alarox.4590:

He gives you 5 reasons.

No, he doesn’t. He lists five things in this game. He doesn’t give one single reason why he feels those things are grinds. His argument is weak. Hell, his argument doesn’t even exist. An argument is “A reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.” He does none of this.

darkace.8925:

Alarox.4590:

He gives you 5 reasons.

No, he doesn’t. He lists five things in this game. He doesn’t give one single reason why he feels those things are grinds. His argument is weak. Hell, his argument doesn’t even exist. An argument is “A reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.” He does none of this.

I’ll help then. Will edit post below.

Revolution.6301:

1. Ascended gear grinding
2. Laundrell grinding
3. Dungeon grinding
4. Gold Grinding
5. World Event grinding

1.) I elaborated on this in my first post.

2.) Same as above.

3.) I don’t really agree with this. You don’t have to run dungeons, and even if you do you get gear relatively fast. It’s mostly for cosmetics. However, FotM did change this (but not as bad as some other things).

4.) I don’t have a problem with this, unless you’re talking about colossal farming for gold for things like Ectos. Problem is that some playstyles have to go completely out of their way while others get gold naturally and at a decent pace.

5.) Ties in to 4.

thisolderhead.5127:

Afternoon – I can see your axe needs GRINDING! Hahahahahahahah.

After the manifesto-clinging-raging-crying (which goes on today) do you think we will be ever told anything about the future direction of the game again?

Thanks for that folks.

So we shouldn’t provide feedback on where we think anet is going wrong?

Alarox.4590:

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Revolution.6301:

darkace.8925:

You already thoroughly beat this dead horse in this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/In-my-view-gw2-is-geartrademill/first

Do you really need to do it again?

Hello my good sir,

If you have nothing productive to say don’t post.

Your post isn’t productive as well. You didn’t specify why you think GW2 is a grind and if its another i want ascended gear but i’m too lazy to make an effort to get it, no one cares.

He gives you 5 reasons.

But thats none!

darkace.8925:

sostronk.8167:

But there is such a thing as “engaging content”, which is something that removes the grind.

That’s entirely subjective. A game either engages you, or it doesn’t. This is true of all games, regardless of the amount of content. But we’re not talking about subjective grinds…“I enjoy it, so it isn’t a grind” vs “I hate it, so it is a grind.” We’re talking* about objective grinds; treadmills on which players must run if they wish to participate in varying aspect of the game. This game doesn’t have any of those.

• At least we would be talking about required grinds if TC had bothered to actually formulate any kind of an argument…had given actual substantive reasons for his statements… instead of making a vague post created solely to start an argument.

Its really not subjective at all. Just ask players if there is grind in this game. Then go ask players who play other games like LoL if there is grind in that game…

Alarox.4590:

I don’t see what making the objective of the game being gear does for the players.

I gives a certain type of player something to do. Whether you like it or not, there are a lot of players who need carrots dangled in front of them so they have something to keep them playing. ArenaNet decided to give these players carrots. But they didn’t require them to chase the carrots, and thus the only grinds in the game are self-imposed.

Heavy/excessive grinding = bad
Fast to moderate grinding = good <- this is where we are
No grinding = bad

If it goes either way too heavily, the game is in trouble. Why do so many people here hate grinding? I could’ve bought me first full set of Exotics with gold, but why? What’s the point if you did nothing to obtain it?

Heijincks.9267:

Grind? In GW2? It’s pretty kitten docile compared to the grind in 99% of other MMORPGs.

That’s simply not true lol. Grind is more or just as apparent in GW2 than any MMO I’ve played, and I’ve tried them all. Except for leveling, I’ll give them that.

Legendary/fractal/ascension

cmon. Least enjoyable vertical progression EVER. The thing is, I think ANet didn’t plan on vertical progression at first, so the game simply isn’t built for it, but then they randomly added legendary grind and ascended items in a game that wasn’t meant to have massive boring grinds.

That’s why legendary is horribly designed without story, questing, etc. and ascended was just thrown in because apparently every MMO needs vertical grind.

zuraith.6104:

Heavy/excessive grinding = bad
Fast to moderate grinding = good <- this is where we are
No grinding = bad

If it goes either way too heavily, the game is in trouble. Why do so many people here hate grinding? I could’ve bought me first full set of Exotics with gold, but why? What’s the point if you did nothing to obtain it?

To expand on this, people who want no grind will hate excessive grind and people who want excessive grind will hate no grind. Shooting for that sweet spot in between may not make everyone happy, but neither it shouldn’t make anyone (other than the extremely immature amongst us) upset.

I can roll a new toon and in 10 minutes – BAM – I can be a max level 80 with full access to all gear/weapons/traits/abilities/sigils/runes/jewelry, etc. and happily pvping my heart out. It doesn’t cost me a single copper to do this.

If I’m only interested in pve I can level through the world/crafting/gathering -whatever- cuz this game rewards me xp if I so much as sneeze and at max level I have access to all 26 zones, 25 dungeon paths, fractals, wvw, guild missions, etc. There are no outdated concepts like gearscore or ilevel, there is no grind before I can participate in any content in the game.

I can choose to tweak my gear or chase after the most desirable skins but there is no required grind.

Alarox.4590:

darkace.8925:

Alarox.4590:

He gives you 5 reasons.

No, he doesn’t. He lists five things in this game. He doesn’t give one single reason why he feels those things are grinds. His argument is weak. Hell, his argument doesn’t even exist. An argument is “A reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.” He does none of this.

I’ll help then. Will edit post below.

Revolution.6301:

1. Ascended gear grinding
2. Laundrell grinding
3. Dungeon grinding
4. Gold Grinding
5. World Event grinding

1.) I elaborated on this in my first post.

2.) Same as above.

3.) I don’t really agree with this. You don’t have to run dungeons, and even if you do you get gear relatively fast. It’s mostly for cosmetics. However, FotM did change this (but not as bad as some other things).

4.) I don’t have a problem with this, unless you’re talking about colossal farming for gold for things like Ectos. Problem is that some playstyles have to go completely out of their way while others get gold naturally and at a decent pace.

5.) Ties in to 4.

That’s all well and good, but the fact that YOU, and not TC, had to actually put forth the argument should tell you that TC has no intentions with this thread other than to start an argument of the “heated disagreement” variety (as opposed to the “civil debate” variety).

danbuter.2314:

Laurels = grind. You might not mind doing them, but it kills 30 minutes or more for me each day. Not doing laurels would be stupid.

Just play the game, just do what you want to be doing. Then, 10 minutes before you’re logging off, just check what’s left to do, if you haven’t gotten your daily yet, just do what’s left to do. Most of them you achieve by simply playing. Grinding in my eyes is not dailies, at all.

Let’s just keep it simple. Does everyone here who does not like to grind, want to get everything what they want within a few days? Really? What’s the purpose of playing then, if you already have anything? For fun? Why aren’t you having fun then right now? Because you do not have everything that you want already?

Don’t you know how good it feels if you finally get what you are after? And then you can start working on the next thing? I think that’s an awesome feeling. And so far I haven’t had to grind anything, I’m just doing what I want, when I want, and if I finally have enough of this or that to obtain this or that, it is a great feeling

Hardist.3104:

danbuter.2314:

Laurels = grind. You might not mind doing them, but it kills 30 minutes or more for me each day. Not doing laurels would be stupid.

Just play the game, just do what you want to be doing. Then, 10 minutes before you’re logging off, just check what’s left to do, if you haven’t gotten your daily yet, just do what’s left to do. Most of them you achieve by simply playing. Grinding in my eyes is not dailies, at all.

Let’s just keep it simple. Does everyone here who does not like to grind, want to get everything what they want within a few days? Really? What’s the purpose of playing then, if you already have anything? For fun? Why aren’t you having fun then right now? Because you do not have everything that you want already?

Don’t you know how good it feels if you finally get what you are after? And then you can start working on the next thing? I think that’s an awesome feeling. And so far I haven’t had to grind anything, I’m just doing what I want, when I want, and if I finally have enough of this or that to obtain this or that, it is a great feeling

You know what’s better than getting the carrot only to have a slightly bigger carrot suspended in front of you? Finally getting the crap you need to actually play the game how you want to. And then proceeding to do so with the crap you got instead of it becoming outdated.

darkace.8925:

Alarox.4590:

darkace.8925:

Alarox.4590:

He gives you 5 reasons.

No, he doesn’t. He lists five things in this game. He doesn’t give one single reason why he feels those things are grinds. His argument is weak. Hell, his argument doesn’t even exist. An argument is “A reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.” He does none of this.

I’ll help then. Will edit post below.

Revolution.6301:

1. Ascended gear grinding
2. Laundrell grinding
3. Dungeon grinding
4. Gold Grinding
5. World Event grinding

1.) I elaborated on this in my first post.

2.) Same as above.

3.) I don’t really agree with this. You don’t have to run dungeons, and even if you do you get gear relatively fast. It’s mostly for cosmetics. However, FotM did change this (but not as bad as some other things).

4.) I don’t have a problem with this, unless you’re talking about colossal farming for gold for things like Ectos. Problem is that some playstyles have to go completely out of their way while others get gold naturally and at a decent pace.

5.) Ties in to 4.

That’s all well and good, but the fact that YOU, and not TC, had to actually put forth the argument should tell you that TC has no intentions with this thread other than to start an argument of the “heated disagreement” variety (as opposed to the “civil debate” variety).

Personally, I don’t really care what the OP’s intention was. Yeah, there’s probably a chance he just wanted to post his thoughts and leave, I won’t argue. I will argue about the grind though.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

You know what’s better than getting the carrot only to have a slightly bigger carrot suspended in front of you? Finally getting the crap you need to actually play the game how you want to. And then proceeding to do so with the crap you got instead of it becoming outdated.

Instead of posting nonsense like above, can you please be specific and tell us what exactly in gw2 is stopping you from playing how you want to play.

Vorz.7952:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

You know what’s better than getting the carrot only to have a slightly bigger carrot suspended in front of you? Finally getting the crap you need to actually play the game how you want to. And then proceeding to do so with the crap you got instead of it becoming outdated.

Instead of posting nonsense like above, can you please be specific and tell us what exactly in gw2 is stopping you from playing how you want to play.

His post seems pretty logical to me. If your goal is to play the game on the same level as everyone else and have fun, then vertical progression carrots go against that.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

You know what’s better than getting the carrot only to have a slightly bigger carrot suspended in front of you? Finally getting the crap you need to actually play the game how you want to. And then proceeding to do so with the crap you got instead of it becoming outdated.

From what part of the game are you blocked without having to grind? Go on; I’m all ears.

darkace.8925:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

You know what’s better than getting the carrot only to have a slightly bigger carrot suspended in front of you? Finally getting the crap you need to actually play the game how you want to. And then proceeding to do so with the crap you got instead of it becoming outdated.

From what part of the game are you blocked without having to grind? Go on; I’m all ears.

I explained the scenario above, which I’m assuming he means. It doesn’t mean unable to play certain parts of the game, but instead being able to play at the maximum efficiency and not having the dilemma of grind vs fun.

Alarox.4590:

darkace.8925:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

You know what’s better than getting the carrot only to have a slightly bigger carrot suspended in front of you? Finally getting the crap you need to actually play the game how you want to. And then proceeding to do so with the crap you got instead of it becoming outdated.

From what part of the game are you blocked without having to grind? Go on; I’m all ears.

I explained the scenario above, which I’m assuming he means. It doesn’t mean unable to play certain parts of the game, but instead being able to play at the maximum efficiency and not having the dilemma of grind vs fun.

“Maximum efficiency”.

Might as well get the most powerful PC setup available as well, along with the highest speed internet available.

The game’s way more fun if you’re less obsessed about being perfect.

Alarox.4590:

I explained the scenario above, which I’m assuming he means. It doesn’t mean unable to play certain parts of the game, but instead being able to play at the maximum efficiency and not having the dilemma of grind vs fun.

To any rational human being, there is no dilemma. If something if fun, do it to your heart’s content. If something is not fun, stop doing it. If you’re doing something you don’t enjoy solely for “maximum efficiency”, then I’d argue your approach to video games is very much out of whack.

Well Ascended gear isn’t going to go away, so might as well go find a better game. Not being snarky, just being a realist. Or maybe they’ll take ascended gear away. If they do, they should just take exotics, rares, masterworks out too. Just put us all in whites so everyone will feel good about themselves and can FINALLY start playing the game the way they want to play it.

Alarox.4590:

I explained the scenario above, which I’m assuming he means. It doesn’t mean unable to play certain parts of the game, but instead being able to play at the maximum efficiency and not having the dilemma of grind vs fun.

Maximum efficiency?

Come on. Maybe his time would be better spent learning to play the game and actually having skill rather than relying on a few %.

It’s always fun absolutely destroying someone with a legendary in wvw wearing nothing but rares. Ascended is no different, just something for people to go after if they want them.

Ascended earrings? No thanks I’m saving up for that cat tonic.

Alarox.4590:

Vorz.7952:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

You know what’s better than getting the carrot only to have a slightly bigger carrot suspended in front of you? Finally getting the crap you need to actually play the game how you want to. And then proceeding to do so with the crap you got instead of it becoming outdated.

Instead of posting nonsense like above, can you please be specific and tell us what exactly in gw2 is stopping you from playing how you want to play.

His post seems pretty logical to me. If your goal is to play the game on the same level as everyone else and have fun, then vertical progression carrots go against that.

Not necessarily. Having a goal is not the same as wanting it right away in this very moment. It can be a thing for the future, something to work towards. By your logic we might as well scrap exotics too, because they can be a heavy investment for someone new to 80.

darkace.8925:

Alarox.4590:

I explained the scenario above, which I’m assuming he means. It doesn’t mean unable to play certain parts of the game, but instead being able to play at the maximum efficiency and not having the dilemma of grind vs fun.

To any rational human being, there is no dilemma. If something if fun, do it to your heart’s content. If something is not fun, stop doing it. If you’re doing something you don’t enjoy solely for “maximum efficiency”, then I’d argue your approach to video games is very much out of whack.

I agree completely! I’m glad we’re of the same opinion. That’s exactly why I, and the guy who posted that, and probably almost every person against Ascended gear doesn’t actually try to get them. Instead, we’re just annoyed.

Without Ascended gear we could just focus on having fun AND AT THE SAME TIME be at maximum efficiency.

With Ascended gear we can just focus on having fun BUT NOT be at maximum efficiency.

So basically, would you rather be the best you can be, or would you rather be suboptimal? Obvious. So now you understand why people are against this.

At the same time, this doesn’t add anything to the game’s enjoyment (which we’ve already concluded is the priority in playing any game).

Therefore, we can say that Ascended gear adds nothing to the game but does make the game frustrating for a number of players.

Vorz.7952:

Alarox.4590:

Vorz.7952:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

You know what’s better than getting the carrot only to have a slightly bigger carrot suspended in front of you? Finally getting the crap you need to actually play the game how you want to. And then proceeding to do so with the crap you got instead of it becoming outdated.

Instead of posting nonsense like above, can you please be specific and tell us what exactly in gw2 is stopping you from playing how you want to play.

His post seems pretty logical to me. If your goal is to play the game on the same level as everyone else and have fun, then vertical progression carrots go against that.

Not necessarily. Having a goal is not the same as wanting it right away in this very moment. It can be a thing for the future, something to work towards. By your logic we might as well scrap exotics too, because they can be a heavy investment for someone new to 80.

I suppose I should be more specific since I didn’t elaborate completely. A—>B is fine, even if B is better. The only problem is if B is a grind.

Grind = something you go out of your way to do (not having fun) that takes a long time to accomplish.

Alarox.4590:

darkace.8925:

Alarox.4590:

I explained the scenario above, which I’m assuming he means. It doesn’t mean unable to play certain parts of the game, but instead being able to play at the maximum efficiency and not having the dilemma of grind vs fun.

To any rational human being, there is no dilemma. If something if fun, do it to your heart’s content. If something is not fun, stop doing it. If you’re doing something you don’t enjoy solely for “maximum efficiency”, then I’d argue your approach to video games is very much out of whack.

I agree completely! I’m glad we’re of the same opinion. That’s exactly why I, and the guy who posted that, and probably almost every person against Ascended gear doesn’t actually try to get them. Instead, we’re just annoyed.

Without Ascended gear we could just focus on having fun AND AT THE SAME TIME be at maximum efficiency.

With Ascended gear we can just focus on having fun BUT NOT be at maximum efficiency.

So basically, would you rather be the best you can be, or would you rather be suboptimal? Obvious. So now you understand why people are against this.

At the same time, this doesn’t add anything to the game’s enjoyment (which we’ve already concluded is the priority in playing any game).

Therefore, we can say that Ascended gear adds nothing to the game but does make the game frustrating for a number of players.

Except for the fact that Ascended gear DO add enjoyment for the large playerbase that like carrots.

[cut]
I can think of several reasons.

1. It gives the hardcore players incentive. They don’t care if there’s vertical progression. They want power. Ascended does that for them.
2. Ascended is still a new thing. Its application hasn’t really developed yet other than for FoTM. This lays out more potential in the future.
3. If implemented correctly, it would give all players a sense of progression which is… really important when it comes to MMORPGs. Anet admits their mistake in the implementation.

The main problem with ascended isn’t the fact it exists. The problem is its implementation. I can say the same for exotics: Why are exotics in the game? The existence of exotics goes against the manifesto too if you read it in a different light.

It’s still the same direction if you ask me.

But you have to realize that these videos are “ideals”. They’re going try as hard as they can to reach for ideals, and I don’t see them slacking with the content/work they do for each patch. I would say they’re progressing towards these ideals as best as they could because they knew when GW2 was released, it’s not going to just be the end final product. It’ll have to keep on growing, changing and improving towards these ideals.

Ah the daily manifest whine /thread.

If you don’t like doing something, don’t do it. Grind is in your head.

Revolution.6301:

You realize that GuildWars 2 was not marketed towards your kind of audience. I can appreciate those that like to grind, but thats why I avoid like the plauge most mmos, heck even the ones I don’t avoid I eventually give up on.

If GuildWars 2 was marketed toward those that enjoying grinding I would not have the right to complaine. You could go as far as to say I knew the game I was buying. But the game was marketed as somthing that did not have grind. I define grind but something I have to spend a min of 100 hours getting. This shows that I do have patience for difficult objectives but what ascended gear gear does is Not acceptable.

One the largest problems with fotm is length. It should be no more then an hour, 30 to 45 if done by an experienced group. A two hour dungeon because of the time it takes to in of itself is gated. But even if the time was cut in half it would still take around 200 to get all the ascended gear I need to keep up stat wise.

If Anet had chosen your audience to market to I would understand that I have no right to complaine but they didn’t. There are so many other MMOs out there that do that and the majority of this community was hoping for an MMO that was different from the masses.

As I explained to you in the thread I linked (an explanation you repeatedly ignored, conveniently enough), you (willfully) took the “no grind” part of the Manifesto out of context. That’s on YOU, not ArenaNet.

Revolution.6301:

If Anet had chosen your audience to market to I would understand that I have no right to complaine but they didn’t. There are so many other MMOs out there that do that and the majority of this community was hoping for an MMO that was different from the masses.

If that was a reply to me, What do you mean, my audience?

As stated above, I have no compulsion to ever get a piece of ascended gear. I’m able to ignore it and not be bothered in the slightest by it. Why can’t you do the same?

Btw, as far as i know this was marketed as Guild Wars 2, not “Revolution’s game”