Current grind direction of GuildWars 2?
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At the same time, this doesn’t add anything to the game’s enjoyment (which we’ve already concluded is the priority in playing any game).
Wrong. It doesn’t add anything for you
Stop being selfish.
Finally, someone who can tell me how this makes the game so much more fun (I’m serious). Go on.
He doesn’t need to; I already did. I explained to you that a great many players enjoy chasing carrots. Without carrots, they quickly bore of the game. These carrots, the “maximally efficient but completely optional” carrots, give many players a goal to work towards. And they usually feel a great sense of a satisfaction when they obtain that goal. That you fail to recognize this truth does not make it an untruth.
It really doesn’t make sense to me…
I don’t really understand the point of doing something you don’t enjoy in order to get something… so you can move on in order to do more things you don’t enjoy.
Why does it need to be things you don’t enjoy? Why can’t we have a system where your goal is cosmetic or fun things like the unbreakable choir bell? Why does it have to make you X% better?
It seems entirely illogical to me.
In life, you don’t live to work, you work to live. The only exception is if your work is what you want to spend life doing for enjoyment.
However, when it comes to games, people reverse this and play to work.
In real life when I work to get something, it’s because it makes life easier/more enjoyable.
The only logical reason I can find for this mentality is if you literally can’t find anything fun to do, and all you have is trying to get an arbitrary thing.
I’m sorry, but I’m starting to suspect you are indeed trolling. You’re arguing in circles. We’ve already covered all of this. If you don’t get it by now, then you’re not going to.
The only logical reason I can find for this mentality is if you literally can’t find anything fun to do, and all you have is trying to get an arbitrary thing to feel as though you’re progressing.
Really, that’s the only reason you can come up with? Never once did the reason “Maybe people actually enjoy aspects of the game that I dont” occur to you? Really?
Asuran Engineer – Norn Ranger
[KAOS] of Anvil Rock
[KAOS] of Anvil Rock
At the same time, this doesn’t add anything to the game’s enjoyment (which we’ve already concluded is the priority in playing any game).
Wrong. It doesn’t add anything for you
Stop being selfish.
Finally, someone who can tell me how this makes the game so much more fun (I’m serious). Go on.
I can think of several reasons.
1. It gives the hardcore players incentive. They don’t care if there’s vertical progression. They want power. Ascended does that for them.
2. Ascended is still a new thing. Its application hasn’t really developed yet other than for FoTM. This lays out more potential in the future.
3. If implemented correctly, it would give all players a sense of progression which is… really important when it comes to MMORPGs. Anet admits their mistake in the implementation.The main problem with ascended isn’t the fact it exists. The problem is its implementation. The existence of exotics goes against the manifesto too if you read it in a different light.
1. Gear progression gives an incentive to ALL players. All players want to progress their characters as far as they can go. The problem is when progressing their characters becomes nearly unobtainable, the players feel they’ve advanced as far as they can and quit. So while currently the hardcore players as having a good time chasing ascended, casual players are jumping ship because exotic is the best they can obtain without grinding fractals, laurels, or guild missions. This is a small positive to hardcore players and a GIANT negative to the rest of the players.
2. It has no more potential than rune slots, that’s all the infusion slots are being used for anyway. All they needed to do was introduce offensive, defensive, and utility rune slots, no ascended gear stat hike needed.
3. Again go back to #1, not all players currently have feasible access to ascended. ArenaNet might have admitted only implementing one way to get the gear as wrong, but they STILL haven’t fixed it and have in fact continued with their original bad implementation. Last patch they added amulets with, surprise surprise, only one way to get them. This patch they added accessories with guild missions(only available to those in a big enough guild) as their “main” way of obtaining them. Laurels are a time gated nightmare that put any player actually using them to obtain ascended months behind. Laurels also force you into completing dailies everyday, for months, on top of taking up 30mins-1hr of your desired playstyle. If a players has 1 hr a night to play they are doing their daily and not much else.
Ascended brought NOTHING to the game that couldn’t have been better implemented by using really cool looking skins(something the game severely lacks). Heck they could have added new stats, runes, sigils, or stat combos. ArenaNet needs to learn that too much stick and not enough carrot leads to people leaving and never coming back. Wait until next patch, I’d bet money they add an ascended item to WvW and the PvE crowd goes ape-kitten over it.
Instead they need to just make all ascended gear available through all current means of obtaining gear: crafting, Fractals, karma, WvW, dungeons, guild missions, and laurels. If they do that at a decent price(not 2 million karma per item), everyone will be happy. People won’t be forced into doing things they don’t want to, they won’t be concerned their small guild can’t do guild missions yet, they won’t spend their small amount of playtime doing a daily for laurels, etc. But ArenaNet won’t do that and will continue trying to force players to do certain activities for certain ascended pieces. I well and truly hope that they added ascended weapons to WvW, the outcry will be insane!
Let’s just say GW2 used to be better before they introduced ascended. The sheer amount of currencies introduced for this item tier alone speaks how badly designed they are.
This i do agree with, there should be one currency but with multiple avenues to obtain it.
Name one triple A, large community (500,000+), successful MMO that has zero tier geared system. Because I can’t think of any. The only way I could see that working is in a very excellent sandbox MMO, which this was clearly never intended to be. Face the facts, the vast majority prefer “grinding” for gear. It has been around forever and is the simplest form of “fun” in an RPG. But guess what? It still is VERY effective. You are in the minority, I am sorry. Take satisfaction in that this game comes very close and look for future sandbox games for your “perfect” experience.
At the same time, this doesn’t add anything to the game’s enjoyment (which we’ve already concluded is the priority in playing any game).
Wrong. It doesn’t add anything for you
Stop being selfish.
Finally, someone who can tell me how this makes the game so much more fun (I’m serious). Go on.
He doesn’t need to; I already did. I explained to you that a great many players enjoy chasing carrots. Without carrots, they quickly bore of the game. These carrots, the “maximally efficient but completely optional” carrots, give many players a goal to work towards. And they usually feel a great sense of a satisfaction when they obtain that goal. That you fail to recognize this truth does not make it an untruth.
It really doesn’t make sense to me…
I don’t really understand the point of doing something you don’t enjoy in order to get something… so you can move on in order to do more things you don’t enjoy.
Why does it need to be things you don’t enjoy? Why can’t we have a system where your goal is cosmetic or fun things like the unbreakable choir bell? Why does it have to make you X% better?
It seems entirely illogical to me.
In life, you don’t live to work, you work to live. The only exception is if your work is what you want to spend life doing for enjoyment.
However, when it comes to games, people reverse this and play to work.
In real life when I work to get something, it’s because it makes life easier/more enjoyable.
The only logical reason I can find for this mentality is if you literally can’t find anything fun to do, and all you have is trying to get an arbitrary thing.
I’m sorry, but I’m starting to suspect you are indeed trolling. You’re arguing in circles. We’ve already covered all of this. If you don’t get it by now, then you’re not going to.
You break logic all the time such as that Ad-Hodiem (personal attack), how can you even comment on my logical arguments?
Afternoon – I can see your axe needs GRINDING! Hahahahahahahah.
After the manifesto-clinging-raging-crying (which goes on today) do you think we will be ever told anything about the future direction of the game again?
Thanks for that folks.
So we shouldn’t provide feedback on where we think anet is going wrong?
There’s a difference between “feedback” and “calling them liars, thieves, and less nice things”. Some people here can disagree and offer their perspective without resorting to painting ArenaNet as baby-chomping evil. Some people cannot.
The latter should try, very very hard, to moderate their opinion to where it would be something you would say to people you want to actually communicate with. Rather than scream at.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
At the same time, this doesn’t add anything to the game’s enjoyment (which we’ve already concluded is the priority in playing any game).
Wrong. It doesn’t add anything for you
Stop being selfish.
Finally, someone who can tell me how this makes the game so much more fun (I’m serious). Go on.
I can think of several reasons.
1. It gives the hardcore players incentive. They don’t care if there’s vertical progression. They want power. Ascended does that for them.
2. Ascended is still a new thing. Its application hasn’t really developed yet other than for FoTM. This lays out more potential in the future.
3. If implemented correctly, it would give all players a sense of progression which is… really important when it comes to MMORPGs. Anet admits their mistake in the implementation.The main problem with ascended isn’t the fact it exists. The problem is its implementation. The existence of exotics goes against the manifesto too if you read it in a different light.
1. Gear progression gives an incentive to ALL players. All players want to progress their characters as far as they can go. The problem is when progressing their characters becomes nearly unobtainable, the players feel they’ve advanced as far as they can and quit. So while currently the hardcore players as having a good time chasing ascended, casual players are jumping ship because exotic is the best they can obtain without grinding fractals, laurels, or guild missions. This is a small positive to hardcore players and a GIANT negative to the rest of the players.
2. It has no more potential than rune slots, that’s all the infusion slots are being used for anyway. All they needed to do was introduce offensive, defensive, and utility rune slots, no ascended gear stat hike needed.
3. Again go back to #1, not all players currently have feasible access to ascended. ArenaNet might have admitted only implementing one way to get the gear as wrong, but they STILL haven’t fixed it and have in fact continued with their original bad implementation. Last patch they added amulets with, surprise surprise, only one way to get them. This patch they added accessories with guild missions(only available to those in a big enough guild) as their “main” way of obtaining them. Laurels are a time gated nightmare that put any player actually using them to obtain ascended months behind. Laurels also force you into completing dailies everyday, for months, on top of taking up 30mins-1hr of your desired playstyle. If a players has 1 hr a night to play they are doing their daily and not much else.
-cut out to compensate for character limit-
I’d prefer a tl;dr. It reduces the odds of misrepresentation and no one really likes reading huge walls of text.
1. Giant negative? Jumping ship? According to who? The forums? The forums represent a very tiny fraction of people who actually play the game, and only a minority of the total number of people who frequent the forums complain about ascended. Therefore whatever evidence you get from the forums is very weak evidence.
2. Ascended are accessories. Not weapons and armor. The upgrade slot for exotic accessories is the jewel slot. Next, the new tier itself adds potential. We don’t even know what ascended weapons and armor will even be like. Their upgrade system might be entirely different from that of exotics.
3. So it takes time to get ascended? That really depends on how you get them. If you do all of fractals, dailies/monthlies, and guild missions, chances are you’ll get them pretty kitten fast. Let’s put this into perspective with exotics. If I didn’t run dungeons, getting that 30g or so worth of gear would take a pretty long time.
The speed of obtainment is highly independent to the player. Let’s also factor in the fact that ascended are also getting progressively easier to obtain as well. In the future, they might be as common as exotics as of now.
Regarding stat increase: Is the stat increase on exotics necessary? Why can’t Anet just stop at rares? You see where this is going?
At the same time, this doesn’t add anything to the game’s enjoyment (which we’ve already concluded is the priority in playing any game).
Wrong. It doesn’t add anything for you
Stop being selfish.
Finally, someone who can tell me how this makes the game so much more fun (I’m serious). Go on.
I can think of several reasons.
1. It gives the hardcore players incentive. They don’t care if there’s vertical progression. They want power. Ascended does that for them.
2. Ascended is still a new thing. Its application hasn’t really developed yet other than for FoTM. This lays out more potential in the future.
3. If implemented correctly, it would give all players a sense of progression which is… really important when it comes to MMORPGs. Anet admits their mistake in the implementation.The main problem with ascended isn’t the fact it exists. The problem is its implementation. The existence of exotics goes against the manifesto too if you read it in a different light.
1. Gear progression gives an incentive to ALL players. All players want to progress their characters as far as they can go. The problem is when progressing their characters becomes nearly unobtainable, the players feel they’ve advanced as far as they can and quit. So while currently the hardcore players as having a good time chasing ascended, casual players are jumping ship because exotic is the best they can obtain without grinding fractals, laurels, or guild missions. This is a small positive to hardcore players and a GIANT negative to the rest of the players.
2. It has no more potential than rune slots, that’s all the infusion slots are being used for anyway. All they needed to do was introduce offensive, defensive, and utility rune slots, no ascended gear stat hike needed.
3. Again go back to #1, not all players currently have feasible access to ascended. ArenaNet might have admitted only implementing one way to get the gear as wrong, but they STILL haven’t fixed it and have in fact continued with their original bad implementation. Last patch they added amulets with, surprise surprise, only one way to get them. This patch they added accessories with guild missions(only available to those in a big enough guild) as their “main” way of obtaining them. Laurels are a time gated nightmare that put any player actually using them to obtain ascended months behind. Laurels also force you into completing dailies everyday, for months, on top of taking up 30mins-1hr of your desired playstyle. If a players has 1 hr a night to play they are doing their daily and not much else.
Ascended brought NOTHING to the game that couldn’t have been better implemented by using really cool looking skins(something the game severely lacks). Heck they could have added new stats, runes, sigils, or stat combos. ArenaNet needs to learn that too much stick and not enough carrot leads to people leaving and never coming back. Wait until next patch, I’d bet money they add an ascended item to WvW and the PvE crowd goes ape-kitten over it.
Instead they need to just make all ascended gear available through all current means of obtaining gear: crafting, Fractals, karma, WvW, dungeons, guild missions, and laurels. If they do that at a decent price(not 2 million karma per item), everyone will be happy. People won’t be forced into doing things they don’t want to, they won’t be concerned their small guild can’t do guild missions yet, they won’t spend their small amount of playtime doing a daily for laurels, etc. But ArenaNet won’t do that and will continue trying to force players to do certain activities for certain ascended pieces. I well and truly hope that they added ascended weapons to WvW, the outcry will be insane!
What you’ve summed up is generally the problem with them. If they were accessable then they’d be no reason to complain but the fact is it takes 100s of hours to properly equip yourself with all the ascended gear.
Revolution.
1. You cant dictate who GW2 is marketed to. If it is infact very grindy, then it’s not to your liking and not marketed towards you and you cant change that. Nobody is making you play. Feel free to play the game you like (single player games).
2. Ascended is not compulsory. i never bothered with fractals and i got my laurels for FREE even tho i never needed or use any of them.
What you’ve summed up is generally the problem with them. If they were accessable then they’d be no reason to complain but the fact is it takes 100s of hours to properly equip yourself with all the ascended gear.
“Properly equip yourself with all the ascended gear”?
Properly equipped for what? Think carefully about your answer before clicking “Reply”. If your answer is anything other than “nothing”, you’ll be lying. Ascended gear, whether you want to admit this or not, is NOT required to do anything in this game. That is an undeniable fact.
If your answer is “nothing”, then you’ve just defeated the premise of your entire argument. To admit ascended gear isn’t required is to admit that grinding for ascended gear isn’t necessary. Hence, any grind for ascended gear is a self-imposed one. And only a fool would complain about self-inflicted misery.
Now then, you were saying something about logical arguments? Let’s see if you can counter my rock-solid logic with any of your own. I’m guessing not, but you’ve got the chance to surprise me. So go ahead…surprise me.
1. Ascended gear grinding – no, 24/7 grinders wont get it faster then causuals = not definition of grind (from my point of view)
2. Laundrell grinding – same as 1
3. Dungeon grinding – agree I would say CoF P1 gold grind (maybe the best way to get gold for players not using TP very much)
4. Gold Grinding – I dont know mmo in which there isnt gold grind. But in GW2 its limited by DR so 24/7 gold grinders wont have significantly higher amouts of gold than causuals
5. World Event grinding – dont see point i this
Imo the ‘grind’ that’s been put into the game is pretty simple. They have to do something to keep content locusts busy while they develop more meaningful content like new stories, new zones, new instances, etc. etc. These all take a great deal more time to complete than what’s in the game right now. That’s also why the DR and kittenty drops for legendary mats. It keeps the locusts at bay. This isn’t the first game to do the exact same type of thing. If they don’t do this then people are on the forums whining because there’s not enough to do blah blah. For right now people have something to work towards long term. What’s the problem with that?
An MMO without progression would be awful.
Why do you think so many people left the game in Sept/Oct?
They had their character(s) decked out in exotic, had experienced most of the content, and there was nothing left to work towards.
As much as I like the DE’s, they’re only fun for so long doing the same thing over and over. Players need new things to do, and new goals to achieve. A player without goals is a player who doesn’t play.
Longterm gated goals are excellent in keeping players around, it’s been proven time and again in games. If exotic was as good as it ever got, how many would keep playing this game further into this year and beyond?
For skins? Please, that was an interesting attempt, but a goal that the majority of a player base finds secondary to progression in this genre.
~Tarnished Coast~
Theres accualy no grind anymore because they invented this stupid laurel system. If this low-speed treadmill is the new future of GW2 i dont want any of that…
Seriously i played alots but now i really lost any will to play when i see what Anet is doing with this kitten daily system. As i said before Laurel system is the worse thing that happend to GW2 since botting its shady system to slow down progress of players. But guess what you slowed it soo much its boring to play this game because iam afraid that this this laurel system is new future and i dont want any of that so its like should i quit this game now? or is there any chance that GW2 will offer something to players who play more then 1h daily?
Theres no freedom whatsoever you are forcing players do thing they dont like all then time either its daily or guild missions, why cant i just buy those stupid earing for gold I rather farm fractals like mad man then doing stupid events or finding giant guild with enough influence…
Hi! As this thread derailed in more of a personal fight instead of a good discussion, we are closing it now.
(edited by Moderator.2608)
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