Guild Wars 2

You could have improved on making the whole Tyria relevant again by giving unique chained and timed events in different/all zones, which upon completion would give certain pieces to construct ascended gear.(You know, fun and creative developement that would help the zones come to life again)

You chose a boring dungeon grind that countless mmos have been using(with a certan mmo already perfecting it), instead of incorporating ascended items on a already established and mostly loved system. You chose the worst way to do this and it does a geat deal injustice to the ingenuity of this game.

Keep in mind that i mostly like FOTM, but it should have served a different purpose compared to the alternatives ANET could have taken.

This is not a discussion on whether you prefer horizontal or vertal progression. This is a discussion on how the implemented vertical progression is unimaginative, hilariously conservative and boring.

player a – “LFM FotM level 10”
player b – “LFM FotM level 2”
player c – “LFM FotM level 12”
player d – “LFM FotM level 6”
player e – “LFM FotM level 9”
All in unison – “Link exotics or be kicked”

FotM is the worst implementation of dungeon tiering i’ve ever seen in any game. Nowhere else have I seen everyone looking for the same thing but none of them grouping for it.

True, but then the so-called horizontal “progression” wasn’t anything to write home about either.

Malefactor.2971:

True, but then the so-called horizontal “progression” wasn’t anything to write home about either.

it was just fine. there was plenty to do, with the pinnacle being legendary weapon with arah gear to show how B—A— you were, and the ability to add more.

Anyone who needs to grind more stats and look down on people to have “fun” has some psychological issue.

plasmacutter hits it on the head.

The dungeon promotes grind, elitism & vertical progression.

EVERYTHING I THOUGHT WOULD NOT EXIST IN GW2.

Like i said in OP, this aint a discussion about vertical vs horizontal progression. In essence, its simply a matter about taste. Still, if your going to throw away 5 years of marketing to a horizontal minded demographic, you better make sure vertical progression is almost flawless to attract a growd to it.(Right now, subpar, would be a compliment.)

So all together… who is this patch supposed to cater to?

People who hate vertical progression: “This is terrible. This is completely against everything you told us prior to launch. You lied to us to get us to buy your game and then changed everything once you had our money”

People who like vertical progression: “Your sad attempt at vertical progression is terribad. Thanks for the patch, though- it helped me realize I really do miss vertical progression, so I’m going to give WoW another shot since it does it better!”

November 15th- the bane of MMOs. First SWG, now GW2.

the holloween event is the perfect example on how content should be introduced.

Holloween event- “here have fun” “travel all over tyria, Uncover secrets in a fun scavenger hunt” “enjoy the neat tricks and treats” “all just for fun”

lost shore- “here have some new shinies” stay in lions arch" “stay in lions arch some more” " run this new dungeon (me:which is actually fun if i didnt feel the need to constantly chase a carrot)" “stay in lions arch” “run this new dungeon bout hundred more times, the rest of our game doesnt matter”

What im gettin at is the holloween event i did becuz it was fun and they didnt have to throw some ever increasing dungeon gear grind at me (rift and WoW have this pretty much covered if gw2 follows in thier footsteps they have no chance in h*ll), why they think that is “fresh” and fun is beyond me.

It wasn’t “just fine”. What it is, is grind. Everything you do in this game, save for leveling, is a grind. They just replaced (or supplemented, depending on your point of view) that grind with another. Maybe they are hoping it gives them enough time to implement some real horizontal content.

Don’t get me wrong, I found the leveling experience quite fun, still do (working on my 6th 80 now) but each time I hit 80 and have my exotics (which now is the same day I hit cap) I quickly get bored. Grinding gold, karma or dungeons over and over whether it be for appearance or stat increase, is the same difference to me and just isn’t my idea of fun.

Tolmos.8395:

So all together… who is this patch supposed to cater to?

People who hate vertical progression: “This is terrible. This is completely against everything you told us prior to launch. You lied to us to get us to buy your game and then changed everything once you had our money”

People who like vertical progression: “Your sad attempt at vertical progression is terribad. Thanks for the patch, though- it helped me realize I really do miss vertical progression, so I’m going to give WoW another shot since it does it better!”

November 15th- the bane of MMOs. First SWG, now GW2.

Exactly, try and please everybody and you please nobody. And the type of player who whinges about wanting more progression isn’t the type to stick around long term anyway.

Malefactor.2971:

It wasn’t “just fine”. What it is, is grind. Everything you do in this game, save for leveling, is a grind. They just replaced (or supplemented, depending on your point of view) that grind with another. Maybe they are hoping it gives them enough time to implement some real horizontal content.

Don’t get me wrong, I found the leveling experience quite fun, still do (working on my 6th 80 now) but each time I hit 80 and have my exotics (which now is the same day I hit cap) I quickly get bored. Grinding gold, karma or dungeons over and over whether it be for appearance or stat increase, is the same difference to me and just isn’t my idea of fun.

you hit 80 and immediately have all arah gear and a legendary?

plasmacutter.2709:

Malefactor.2971:

It wasn’t “just fine”. What it is, is grind. Everything you do in this game, save for leveling, is a grind. They just replaced (or supplemented, depending on your point of view) that grind with another. Maybe they are hoping it gives them enough time to implement some real horizontal content.

Don’t get me wrong, I found the leveling experience quite fun, still do (working on my 6th 80 now) but each time I hit 80 and have my exotics (which now is the same day I hit cap) I quickly get bored. Grinding gold, karma or dungeons over and over whether it be for appearance or stat increase, is the same difference to me and just isn’t my idea of fun.

you hit 80 and immediately have all arah gear and a legendary?

Who said anything about Arah gear? I craft exotics, since I have every crafting profession. For appearance I am quite content to work with what I can get with minimal grind, the factions (Vigil, Priory and Order) all have some nice looking stuff, as do the races. And Legendary? Please, that is the biggest grind in the game coupled with RNG, no thanks. Maybe if they made acquiring it fun somehow, like a difficult and lengthy quest line or series of challenges I’d be interested.

Malefactor.2971:

plasmacutter.2709:

Malefactor.2971:

It wasn’t “just fine”. What it is, is grind. Everything you do in this game, save for leveling, is a grind. They just replaced (or supplemented, depending on your point of view) that grind with another. Maybe they are hoping it gives them enough time to implement some real horizontal content.

Don’t get me wrong, I found the leveling experience quite fun, still do (working on my 6th 80 now) but each time I hit 80 and have my exotics (which now is the same day I hit cap) I quickly get bored. Grinding gold, karma or dungeons over and over whether it be for appearance or stat increase, is the same difference to me and just isn’t my idea of fun.

you hit 80 and immediately have all arah gear and a legendary?

Who said anything about Arah gear? I craft exotics, since I have every crafting profession. For appearance I am quite content to work with what I can get with minimal grind, the factions (Vigil, Priory and Order) all have some nice looking stuff, as do the races. And Legendary? Please, that is the biggest grind in the game coupled with RNG, no thanks. Maybe if they made acquiring it fun somehow, like a difficult and lengthy quest line or series of challenges I’d be interested.

That stage is usually when I start pvp and random travels until they release the next content patch.

It is a shame that they have this wonderful dynamic world but yet decided to funnel everyone to the city and into the dungeon and only the dungeon.

There have been many great suggestions posted about ways to combat this and adding content but Anet chose this auspicious way and I dont no why.

It was poorly implemented and fragments the community because you need a specific level and not even a range (ie 1-5)limiting your options.
Even if you like this change the RNG mechanic and the DC stuff make doing the dungeon a pita.
Now if you hate dungeons but need good loot or mats your stuck that is where they are. It just seems sad really.

plasmacutter.2709:

Malefactor.2971:

plasmacutter.2709:

Malefactor.2971:

It wasn’t “just fine”. What it is, is grind. Everything you do in this game, save for leveling, is a grind. They just replaced (or supplemented, depending on your point of view) that grind with another. Maybe they are hoping it gives them enough time to implement some real horizontal content.

Don’t get me wrong, I found the leveling experience quite fun, still do (working on my 6th 80 now) but each time I hit 80 and have my exotics (which now is the same day I hit cap) I quickly get bored. Grinding gold, karma or dungeons over and over whether it be for appearance or stat increase, is the same difference to me and just isn’t my idea of fun.

you hit 80 and immediately have all arah gear and a legendary?

Who said anything about Arah gear? I craft exotics, since I have every crafting profession. For appearance I am quite content to work with what I can get with minimal grind, the factions (Vigil, Priory and Order) all have some nice looking stuff, as do the races. And Legendary? Please, that is the biggest grind in the game coupled with RNG, no thanks. Maybe if they made acquiring it fun somehow, like a difficult and lengthy quest line or series of challenges I’d be interested.

That stage is usually when I start pvp and random travels until they release the next content patch.

I usually just do a round of Ori/Ancient wood/Omnomberries harvesting on each lvl 80 character and then have fun leveling my newest one. I don’t much care for MMORPG PvP, nothing against it I just prefer my PvP kicks from shooter type games like Battlefield, and that new one Planeside 2 looks interesting I may try that out.

Narkosys.5173:

It is a shame that they have this wonderful dynamic world but yet decided to funnel everyone to the city and into the dungeon and only the dungeon.

There have been many great suggestions posted about ways to combat this and adding content but Anet chose this auspicious way and I dont no why.

It was poorly implemented and fragments the community because you need a specific level and not even a range (ie 1-5)limiting your options.
Even if you like this change the RNG mechanic and the DC stuff make doing the dungeon a pita.
Now if you hate dungeons but need good loot or mats your stuck that is where they are. It just seems sad really.

Personally, I think it was the fastest and cheapest way they could come up with to try and buy themselves time to work on bigger, more fun content. It does seem kind of rushed to me, like they didn’t really think it all the way through (as you said, fragmenting the community up in several ways etc).

Yeah I think they are kind of scrambling to get more end game content out so maybe its not the best design choices but they are trying. Its not like it can not be changed, and a lot of players do like vertical progression and it will always exist in some form even if its just aesthetic choices on what to wear.

Its late and my mind isnt 100% there so im listing in bullet points!

1) Love the FotM dungeon and think its a great idea however there needs to be a way to party with different difficulty levels. I believe its something the devs are looking into (from talk on forums).

2) The difficulty barrier is what drove me to join an active guild and im happier for it. We run two lots of FotM most days so we’re not grinding it, just progressing at our own pace. What is the rush? Ive found very little drop difference between level 1 and level 12 difficulty so its not like we’re missing out much. Just have fun doing it and youll get there eventually.

3) Lions Arch is a bad place for the dungeon to be located. I made a post about this but it got deleted because I wrote ‘petition’ in the title.

4) Ascended items are kinda vertical progression but its not like theyre hugely affecting WvW as it stands with only rings and the backpiece available. Got more kills than ever today in WvW and ive got no ascended gear, just a new build that I was testing out for the Fractals. Work at Fractals slowly and youll get there. My guild FotM party have got 3 rings between us doing the level 10 and 12 daily. Not like its that hard.

5) Get yourself a regular FotM group with Teamspeak. Makes encounters a lot easier to handle. The higher in difficulty your party is at, the less chance of failing you have provided you have a balanced group because as you play you gain more experience with the dungeon and boss mechanics and animations.

6) Dont think you can go in there with a glass cannon build. You’ll need toughness and/or vitality to survive. Pointless saying “Im DPS” when youre laying on the floor dead.

7) Lost the link but its been confirmed that the regular dungeons are going to be made ‘more attractive to run’ including making story mode runs ‘worth doing multiple times’. This could mean better drops, more tokens, more things to spend the tokens on…. any number of things.

plasmacutter.2709:

player a – “LFM FotM level 10”
player b – “LFM FotM level 2”
player c – “LFM FotM level 12”
player d – “LFM FotM level 6”
player e – “LFM FotM level 9”
All in unison – “Link exotics or be kicked”

FotM is the worst implementation of dungeon tiering i’ve ever seen in any game. Nowhere else have I seen everyone looking for the same thing but none of them grouping for it.

Ive been playing fractals since it started…… have my 2 rings and my backpack…..and ive yet to come across “Link exotics or be kicked”………..quit trying to make it sound worse then it is. im at level 26, and have yet to see or hear anybody ask ANYTHING about somebody’s gear.

Honestly..this game is still in its infancy and the developers and designers are still searching for the sweet spot of their customer base. They attracted more people in this game with varying tastes than they did GW1, they made an adjustment..they have feedback and now we have to see how they choose to use that information. to the point of this post..I believe they are experimenting with the fractals set up. I dont find it boring at all and its a great testing zone for new dungeon or combat ideas imo because it is so “plug and play”

they also lost more than they attaracted so…

The game is the opposite it used to be…
There have been proof of so many leaving i wonder how many new players came to this game thinking “good now i have progression”….

After 3 months, players wanting progression were still gathering marterials for their legendary…

Really few had one.

LOCO.1785:

plasmacutter hits it on the head.

The dungeon promotes grind, elitism & vertical progression.

EVERYTHING I THOUGHT WOULD NOT EXIST IN GW2.

I thought that as well, I reviewed the manifesto and it’s completely 180 from what they claimed this game would be.

LordByron.8369:

they also lost more than they attaracted so…

The game is the opposite it used to be…
There have been proof of so many leaving i wonder how many new players came to this game thinking “good now i have progression”….

After 3 months, players wanting progression were still gathering marterials for their legendary…

Really few had one.

They didn’t look at a single games history before making this move. All mmo’s show the same history that the crowd they want to attract with this is the same crowd that destroys communities, gets banned the most, stays the shortest amount of time, pays the least and demands the most.

It’s weird they thought they would be profitable.

Meanwhile, those of us who love horizontal progression, the types of players who stay for years in a good game, who pay the most because it feels good to support the game you love with cash, are being forced out.

They’ll end up in the end with no one.