Guild Wars 2

Duke Nukem.6783:

but i think if you read my solution on my first post you will c i did suggest a change for the opener leaving, so obviously i do see a problem with that, as for kicking the opener? the only problem i see with that is the opener can be kicked at all, in gw1 i had total control of any party i created no questions asked no exceptions, thats the way it should b here.

In GW1 if you formed a party you can kick someone at any time and nobody else would leave the party just because you kicked them. Did you even play GW1? Lol if the party leader leaves a mission or explorable zone, nobody else is kicked from anything.

TehPwnerer.7215:

Duke Nukem.6783:

but i think if you read my solution on my first post you will c i did suggest a change for the opener leaving, so obviously i do see a problem with that, as for kicking the opener? the only problem i see with that is the opener can be kicked at all, in gw1 i had total control of any party i created no questions asked no exceptions, thats the way it should b here.

In GW1 if you formed a party you can kick someone at any time and nobody else would leave the party just because you kicked them. Did you even play GW1? Lol if the party leader leaves a mission or explorable zone, nobody else is kicked from anything.

thars how it should work , another person takes a lead and keep it going . Current system is bad and if they want to just relase that without changes it is gona get worse

3000 hours, loads of dungeons done kicked only once and it was my fault. If you get kicked over and over and over there can be only one reason, you are simply a bad player.
Anet decided how things will be there will be no protection, why should one person be protected and 4 others not? Because he ran first into the portal? You can make your group, describe it as casual no skip and people who want fast runs will stay away. But i think thats not what you really want is it? You want to be the “holy cow” of the group, ineficient and untouchable while rest of people have to carry you on their backs because you cant be kicked.

Aguri.2896:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Aguri.2896:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Aguri.2896:

I don’t understand where all the complaints about kicking are coming from. I’ve been playing for a year and a half (3,900 hours play time I think?) and have done many dungeon runs (including speed runs) with pugs and have only been kicked twice before, once as an engi and another time as a thief (because 4 warriors for CoF p1 isn’t enough apparently) both before even entering the dungeon. The new system is fine,
do you know how disappointing it is to get all the way to Mai Trin on a level 19 fractal only for the host to rage quit because we wiped -one- time? If you get kicked a lot you might want to consider what you as a player can do differently next time.

u kinda just answered your own question about the kick system with thsoe 2 experiences of yours but lets broaden the question for a second

what if some people in the group want to do the mai glitch and some dont? some might wana kick over that, what if their is another argument in the group? u have no right to hijack the party from the opener over this no matter what, EVER

Even if the owner is someone who afk’s mid-dungeon to make dinner, something he knew he would have to do in advance?

Also, if you notice my two experiences are before entering the dungeon, so it’s not like I had my progress erased. On top of that, it is 2 times out of several hundred.. not often enough to be a problem. Not nearly enough to complain about.

if the dungeon owner wants to have a slow relaxed run where he can take a break and make something to eat then thats his choice he created the party. im not saying its polite and i certainly wudnt do that but its still his party and you can still leave. if your heavily invested and dont want to leave just wait, if you dont have time to wait then you also didnt plan ahead now did you?

but these examples are becoming increasingly niche and represent less than 1 in a thousand chances and i think most of us know that

The guy I am talking about was afk for 30 minutes and was not the party leader. I was the one who created the party and I let him open because at the time we were friends. He knew it was a fast run for experienced players looking to get their gold asap but he still did this anyways. I felt really bad for the other people there… Yes, the fault is on me for trusting him but what about the other 3 people who expected something better? They shouldn’t have to suffer for our mistake.

thats very reproachable and i sympathise, but as inconvenient as that is i do think the party LEADER deserves autonomy, maybe it should no longer matter who opens but if im the first one in the party or if i start the LFG system i or any party leader out there deserves to be kick proof

Lucyfer.9517:

3000 hours, loads of dungeons done kicked only once and it was my fault. If you get kicked over and over and over there can be only one reason, you are simply a bad player.
Anet decided how things will be there will be no protection, why should one person be protected and 4 others not? Because he ran first into the portal? You can make your group, describe it as casual no skip and people who want fast runs will stay away. But i think thats not what you really want is it? You want to be the “holy cow” of the group, ineficient and untouchable while rest of people have to carry you on their backs because you cant be kicked.

This. in my experience the vast majority of my dungeon kicks come from party leaders leaving for whatever reason and getting everyone else shafted. I rarely actually get kicked, although it happens.

there’s absolutely no reason 4 people should be at the mercy of 1 person like this. And there’s no reason that a party leader should have special status just because they walked in first.

Lucyfer.9517:

3000 hours, loads of dungeons done kicked only once and it was my fault. If you get kicked over and over and over there can be only one reason, you are simply a bad player.
Anet decided how things will be there will be no protection, why should one person be protected and 4 others not? Because he ran first into the portal? You can make your group, describe it as casual no skip and people who want fast runs will stay away. But i think thats not what you really want is it? You want to be the “holy cow” of the group, ineficient and untouchable while rest of people have to carry you on their backs because you cant be kicked.

anet decided did they? you probably arnt aware they said they would like to re examine this issue then? and plz keep your junior college psych degree to yourself, i do not enjoy making my teammates suffer for fun but i do hate elitists who are the real holy cows here

Duke Nukem.6783:

well u can stop right there cuz anet has addreesed already today that they too aggree that my problem is a real problem and are looking into revamping their solution to fit better with our concerns so this is changing as we speak.

and your solution is just insulting really, you want me to survey them on wheather or not they r gana kick me b4 the party starts? you want to take away my time investment in the first place for playing the way i want to play?

Ryan Diederich.8179:

I actually agree with you. I would have liked to increase the vote count a majority with this change, but unfortunately not all the pieces of code around party votes are set up in a way to make this a quick and easy change.

We were aware of the possible issues with the instance ownership change, but felt that holding back an improvement to the base experience on account of trolls was unfair to users that are playing nice.

Stealing instances using the LFG tool, or booting people for no reason (or to give your buddy the rewards for no work) at the end of a run are bannable offenses and should be reported.

Yup, I found the post. ANet is more concerned with maintaining a positive experience for “nice” players than dealing with trolls. That’s why you can report the trolls and get them banned.

And I didn’t give my own solution, I simply mentioned ANet’s solution. I’ll assume you simply misquoted me. But everyone plays different; some people just aren’t as hardcore as other players. If I don’t want to play with someone, I don’t. Even if I dedicated my entire night to setting up a run. It’s a waste of a night, but I try again later. At least there’s the option to leave the party, right?

vespers.1759:

Lucyfer.9517:

3000 hours, loads of dungeons done kicked only once and it was my fault. If you get kicked over and over and over there can be only one reason, you are simply a bad player.
Anet decided how things will be there will be no protection, why should one person be protected and 4 others not? Because he ran first into the portal? You can make your group, describe it as casual no skip and people who want fast runs will stay away. But i think thats not what you really want is it? You want to be the “holy cow” of the group, ineficient and untouchable while rest of people have to carry you on their backs because you cant be kicked.

This. in my experience the vast majority of my dungeon kicks come from party leaders leaving for whatever reason and getting everyone else shafted. I rarely actually get kicked, although it happens.

there’s absolutely no reason 4 people should be at the mercy of 1 person like this. And there’s no reason that a party leader should have special status just because they walked in first.

lets stop talking about “getting shafted” because the party leader left or d/ced as i have already addressed that issue with the original post and its no longer relevent to the discussion at hand, infact il update that right now on the OP becasue i fully aggree with you that that is not fair and should change, i just believe that the party LEADER (not opener) should have the right to decide how the party works and indeed IF it works at all

Duke Nukem.6783:

Aguri.2896:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Aguri.2896:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Aguri.2896:

I don’t understand where all the complaints about kicking are coming from. I’ve been playing for a year and a half (3,900 hours play time I think?) and have done many dungeon runs (including speed runs) with pugs and have only been kicked twice before, once as an engi and another time as a thief (because 4 warriors for CoF p1 isn’t enough apparently) both before even entering the dungeon. The new system is fine,
do you know how disappointing it is to get all the way to Mai Trin on a level 19 fractal only for the host to rage quit because we wiped -one- time? If you get kicked a lot you might want to consider what you as a player can do differently next time.

u kinda just answered your own question about the kick system with thsoe 2 experiences of yours but lets broaden the question for a second

what if some people in the group want to do the mai glitch and some dont? some might wana kick over that, what if their is another argument in the group? u have no right to hijack the party from the opener over this no matter what, EVER

Even if the owner is someone who afk’s mid-dungeon to make dinner, something he knew he would have to do in advance?

Also, if you notice my two experiences are before entering the dungeon, so it’s not like I had my progress erased. On top of that, it is 2 times out of several hundred.. not often enough to be a problem. Not nearly enough to complain about.

if the dungeon owner wants to have a slow relaxed run where he can take a break and make something to eat then thats his choice he created the party. im not saying its polite and i certainly wudnt do that but its still his party and you can still leave. if your heavily invested and dont want to leave just wait, if you dont have time to wait then you also didnt plan ahead now did you?

but these examples are becoming increasingly niche and represent less than 1 in a thousand chances and i think most of us know that

The guy I am talking about was afk for 30 minutes and was not the party leader. I was the one who created the party and I let him open because at the time we were friends. He knew it was a fast run for experienced players looking to get their gold asap but he still did this anyways. I felt really bad for the other people there… Yes, the fault is on me for trusting him but what about the other 3 people who expected something better? They shouldn’t have to suffer for our mistake.

thats very reproachable and i sympathise, but as inconvenient as that is i do think the party LEADER deserves autonomy, maybe it should no longer matter who opens but if im the first one in the party or if i start the LFG system i or any party leader out there deserves to be kick proof

Why do you think the party leader deserves immunity from a kick? What makes them above the opinion and wellbeing of the other 4 party members? It all seems very exclusive and unnecessary to me because a good player will not be kicked.

Aguri.2896:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Aguri.2896:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Aguri.2896:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Aguri.2896:

I don’t understand where all the complaints about kicking are coming from. I’ve been playing for a year and a half (3,900 hours play time I think?) and have done many dungeon runs (including speed runs) with pugs and have only been kicked twice before, once as an engi and another time as a thief (because 4 warriors for CoF p1 isn’t enough apparently) both before even entering the dungeon. The new system is fine,
do you know how disappointing it is to get all the way to Mai Trin on a level 19 fractal only for the host to rage quit because we wiped -one- time? If you get kicked a lot you might want to consider what you as a player can do differently next time.

u kinda just answered your own question about the kick system with thsoe 2 experiences of yours but lets broaden the question for a second

what if some people in the group want to do the mai glitch and some dont? some might wana kick over that, what if their is another argument in the group? u have no right to hijack the party from the opener over this no matter what, EVER

Even if the owner is someone who afk’s mid-dungeon to make dinner, something he knew he would have to do in advance?

Also, if you notice my two experiences are before entering the dungeon, so it’s not like I had my progress erased. On top of that, it is 2 times out of several hundred.. not often enough to be a problem. Not nearly enough to complain about.

if the dungeon owner wants to have a slow relaxed run where he can take a break and make something to eat then thats his choice he created the party. im not saying its polite and i certainly wudnt do that but its still his party and you can still leave. if your heavily invested and dont want to leave just wait, if you dont have time to wait then you also didnt plan ahead now did you?

but these examples are becoming increasingly niche and represent less than 1 in a thousand chances and i think most of us know that

The guy I am talking about was afk for 30 minutes and was not the party leader. I was the one who created the party and I let him open because at the time we were friends. He knew it was a fast run for experienced players looking to get their gold asap but he still did this anyways. I felt really bad for the other people there… Yes, the fault is on me for trusting him but what about the other 3 people who expected something better? They shouldn’t have to suffer for our mistake.

thats very reproachable and i sympathise, but as inconvenient as that is i do think the party LEADER deserves autonomy, maybe it should no longer matter who opens but if im the first one in the party or if i start the LFG system i or any party leader out there deserves to be kick proof

Why do you think the party leader deserves immunity from a kick? What makes them above the opinion and wellbeing of the other 4 party members?

its a classic issue of autonomy and freedom, those 4 playes are guests in the party of the leader and if they dont like the way they do it they can leave and get a new party, they are guests in his home and no matter what insane thing he asks of you in his home you do it or get out, you do not steal his home because you dont want it, dont assume that those 4 people are more qualified to make choices jsut because they are 4 and the leader is one, many parties will kick just bcuz u didnt stack (im a ranger and i use a longbow and i dont want to stack) and putting casual in the description means little as some ppl dont even read descriptions, if i start something, no matter how much or how little effort you think that is, i still started it, and i deserve a great say in what that thing does. many times 4 ppl are LESS capable of making good decisions than 1 (see the phenomenone known as groupthink).

Blade Syphon.4325:

So basically, you don’t want to be held accountable for your sub-par skill in a group that may or may not be the cause of it wiping, but you’re perfectly okay kicking people who are “Meany heads” to you when they call you on your inability to play your roll properly to the group’s composition.

Sounds to me that if people like you are in the majority, this change to the dungeons is a very needed one on that level alone, to say nothing about the sheer number of technical hiccups this is finally going to fix.

Just because you started the party doesn’t mean you’re suddenly not required to live up to the standards people expect when running a dungeon, or are some how immune to being kicked because you want to play sub-optimally in a pick up group setting.

If this change bothers you that much, than just run it with your Guild.

…Huh?

No I agree with you dude. I’m talking about the change to the dungeon ownership system. It’s a good change because a lot of the time people don’t understand or notice that they’re the dungeon owner, and they leave earlier than everyone else has their loot. The negative ramifications of the change (people stealing sold runs) are vastly outweighed by the positive (people don’t get screwed by an owner leaving).

Sarrs.4831:

Blade Syphon.4325:

So basically, you don’t want to be held accountable for your sub-par skill in a group that may or may not be the cause of it wiping, but you’re perfectly okay kicking people who are “Meany heads” to you when they call you on your inability to play your roll properly to the group’s composition.

Sounds to me that if people like you are in the majority, this change to the dungeons is a very needed one on that level alone, to say nothing about the sheer number of technical hiccups this is finally going to fix.

Just because you started the party doesn’t mean you’re suddenly not required to live up to the standards people expect when running a dungeon, or are some how immune to being kicked because you want to play sub-optimally in a pick up group setting.

If this change bothers you that much, than just run it with your Guild.

…Huh?

No I agree with you dude. I’m talking about the change to the dungeon ownership system. It’s a good change because a lot of the time people don’t understand or notice that they’re the dungeon owner, and they leave earlier than everyone else has their loot. The negative ramifications of the change (people stealing sold runs) are vastly outweighed by the positive (people don’t get screwed by an owner leaving).

your post is irrelivent as the suggested solution on the OP addresses the difference this thread is trying to make between a leaving owner and a kicked owner

Gods, so much strum und drang over a long overdue bug fix.

Duke Nukem.6783:

your post is irrelivent as the suggested solution on the OP addresses the difference this thread is trying to make between a leaving owner and a kicked owner

Why should a dungeon not persist if the owner is kicked? There’s no fundamental difference between the dungeon owner and any other guy, except in a few particular cases.

Swamp stealing? Yeah sure that sucks. Is it really that hard though? Is it worth creating a labyrinthine system that tries to make a distinction between kicked and leaving dungeon owners?

Duke Nukem.6783:

its a classic issue of autonomy and freedom, those 4 playes are guests in the party of the leader and if they dont like the way they do it they can leave and get a new party, they are guests in his home and no matter what insane thing he asks of you in his home you do it or get out, you do not steal his home because you dont want it, dont assume that those 4 people are more qualified to make choices jsut because they are 4 and the leader is one, many parties will kick just bcuz u didnt stack (im a ranger and i use a longbow and i dont want to stack) and putting casual in the description means little as some ppl dont even read descriptions, if i start something, no matter how much or how little effort you think that is, i still started it, and i deserve a great say in what that thing does. many times 4 ppl are LESS capable of making good decisions than 1 (see the phenomenone known as groupthink).

So then what’s the big deal about kicking the party leader from the party? If those four people don’t like being in a party with the leader, then they have the right to kick the leader player. If this happens in a dungeon, then oh well. If you find that they kick you for no good reason, then report them. Or go find another group of players who want to play.

You keep mentioning that posts are “irrelevant” despite actually having something to do with the topic at hand. If you want relevant…

- A leaving dungeon owner is someone who leaves the dungeon instance. Currently, that boots everyone out as well, whether the act of leaving was intentional or not.

- A kicked dungeon owner is someone who is forced out of the dungeon instance because either the kick was deserved or the party had at least two griefers/trolls. Currently, that boots everyone out, just like what happens when a dungeon owner leaves.

ANet’s update will allow the instance to persist whether the “owner” leaves (on purpose or accidentally) or is kicked. Granted, the 2/5 vote is terrible (technically 2/4, since you can’t vote for yourself), but just accept the fact that you were booted and move on to another run.

You may have created the party, but you wouldn’t have a party if the other four players didn’t join on their own free will.

Sarrs.4831:

Duke Nukem.6783:

your post is irrelivent as the suggested solution on the OP addresses the difference this thread is trying to make between a leaving owner and a kicked owner

Why should a dungeon not persist if the owner is kicked? There’s no fundamental difference between the dungeon owner and any other guy, except in a few particular cases.

Swamp stealing? Yeah sure that sucks. Is it really that hard though? Is it worth creating a labyrinthine system that tries to make a distinction between kicked and leaving dungeon owners?

they made a choice to start the party, it is theirs regardless of how little effort it took to make it….its an issue of autonomy..and i didnt even think of swamp stealing WOW thats a whole extra problem to lump onto this thanks!

ArchCalder.3258:

Duke Nukem.6783:

its a classic issue of autonomy and freedom, those 4 playes are guests in the party of the leader and if they dont like the way they do it they can leave and get a new party, they are guests in his home and no matter what insane thing he asks of you in his home you do it or get out, you do not steal his home because you dont want it, dont assume that those 4 people are more qualified to make choices jsut because they are 4 and the leader is one, many parties will kick just bcuz u didnt stack (im a ranger and i use a longbow and i dont want to stack) and putting casual in the description means little as some ppl dont even read descriptions, if i start something, no matter how much or how little effort you think that is, i still started it, and i deserve a great say in what that thing does. many times 4 ppl are LESS capable of making good decisions than 1 (see the phenomenone known as groupthink).

So then what’s the big deal about kicking the party leader from the party? If those four people don’t like being in a party with the leader, then they have the right to kick the leader player. If this happens in a dungeon, then oh well. If you find that they kick you for no good reason, then report them. Or go find another group of players who want to play.

You keep mentioning that posts are “irrelevant” despite actually having something to do with the topic at hand. If you want relevant…

- A leaving dungeon owner is someone who leaves the dungeon instance. Currently, that boots everyone out as well, whether the act of leaving was intentional or not.

- A kicked dungeon owner is someone who is forced out of the dungeon instance because either the kick was deserved or the party had at least two griefers/trolls. Currently, that boots everyone out, just like what happens when a dungeon owner leaves.

ANet’s update will allow the instance to persist whether the “owner” leaves (on purpose or accidentally) or is kicked. Granted, the 2/5 vote is terrible (technically 2/4, since you can’t vote for yourself), but just accept the fact that you were booted and move on to another run.

You may have created the party, but you wouldn’t have a party if the other four players didn’t join on their own free will.

its different because in one the owner is choosing to go and the other the party is being stolen from , no matter what its stealing what they created,

and dont say “just start another one” or “just find another one” that completly ignores the feeling of being kicked from a party 2 hours into a hard fractal that went poorly for whatever reason, sometimes people look for a scapegoat or place blame in the wrong place and thats unfair to every1 but its especially unfair to the group leader, i say again, it is yours if you made it

and no you can be in a party by yourself as silly as that sounds, you still made the group and just like in gw1 thats YOUR group

“just accept it” is a passive way of admiting you know something is wrong, and since you know something is wrong with this you should also be either offering your own or amending mine (not arguing the fundamental philosiphy of autonomy)

Duke Nukem.6783:

they made a choice to start the party, it is theirs regardless of how little effort it took to make it….its an issue of autonomy..and i didnt even think of swamp stealing WOW thats a whole extra problem to lump onto this thanks!

They made a choice to start the party. That doesn’t give them inalienable rights to do as they please without the threat of being kicked.

When you are in party do you see party leader icon somewhere? Is some player marked differently? Has more power than other players? Nope? Because there is no party leader in anets system. All players in group are equal none of them own the others or host the others in their “home”. You don’t own anything being party leader is just some silly illusion you created for yourself to justify why you cant be touched and need to be treated differently than others. Your system will never happen, party leaders do not exist.

Sarrs.4831:

Duke Nukem.6783:

they made a choice to start the party, it is theirs regardless of how little effort it took to make it….its an issue of autonomy..and i didnt even think of swamp stealing WOW thats a whole extra problem to lump onto this thanks!

They made a choice to start the party. That doesn’t give them inalienable rights to do as they please without the threat of being kicked.

it….it literally does, thats literally what owning something means and what my constitution and bill of rights says about creating something

Lucyfer.9517:

When you are in party do you see party leader icon somewhere? Is some player marked differently? Has more power than other players? Nope? Because there is no party leader in anets system. All players in group are equal none of them own the others or host the others in their “home”. You don’t own anything being party leader is just some silly illusion you created for yourself to justify why you cant be touched and need to be treated differently than others. Your system will never happen, party leaders do not exist.

your so right lets add a party leader icon (since we now need one cuz of this update)

TehPwnerer.7215:

In GW1 if you formed a party you can kick someone at any time and nobody else would leave the party just because you kicked them. Did you even play GW1? Lol if the party leader leaves a mission or explorable zone, nobody else is kicked from anything.

Plus the next in line is leader whether they like it or not and nobody can join from the outside. Once the party is formed and ready you enter, it’s do or fail.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_interface#Party_window

Duke Nukem.6783:

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

no opener system is good we need new kicking/party owner system

if i start the party then it should be up to me who stays and who goes, il admit if i want to LEAVE the party then they should get their own instance but if i get kicked then yes the dungeon should close.

There is a very small importance on being able to kick an entire part from the dungeon. As a matter of fact, the bigger problem was with owners getting D/C’d than the issue you’re referring to. Also, i’m hoping this eliminates (or drastically reduces) dungeon runners that exploit, as they can now be kicked out without people losing progress.

For the most part (besides not being a majority vote), it’s win-win.

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

When you are in party do you see party leader icon somewhere? Is some player marked differently? Has more power than other players? Nope? Because there is no party leader in anets system. All players in group are equal none of them own the others or host the others in their “home”. You don’t own anything being party leader is just some silly illusion you created for yourself to justify why you cant be touched and need to be treated differently than others. Your system will never happen, party leaders do not exist.

your so right lets add a party leader icon (since we now need one cuz of this update)

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

Daggos Skelito.2910:

TehPwnerer.7215:

In GW1 if you formed a party you can kick someone at any time and nobody else would leave the party just because you kicked them. Did you even play GW1? Lol if the party leader leaves a mission or explorable zone, nobody else is kicked from anything.

Plus the next in line is leader whether they like it or not and nobody can join from the outside. Once the party is formed and ready you enter, it’s do or fail.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_interface#Party_window

but you cant kick in the instance anyway, and the party leader has single control of who is and isnt allwed in the party when preparing, its not a perfect reference but its worth examining for the sake of progression of ideas

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

When you are in party do you see party leader icon somewhere? Is some player marked differently? Has more power than other players? Nope? Because there is no party leader in anets system. All players in group are equal none of them own the others or host the others in their “home”. You don’t own anything being party leader is just some silly illusion you created for yourself to justify why you cant be touched and need to be treated differently than others. Your system will never happen, party leaders do not exist.

your so right lets add a party leader icon (since we now need one cuz of this update)

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

you just proved exactly why this change is a bad idea, you think its ok to kick me for the way i want to play, its not, your wrong, no debate on that, and anet will aggree

Duke Nukem.6783:

its different because in one the owner is choosing to go and the other the party is being stolen from , no matter what its stealing what they created,

and dont say “just start another one” or “just find another one” that completly ignores the feeling of being kicked from a party 2 hours into a hard fractal that went poorly for whatever reason, sometimes people look for a scapegoat or place blame in the wrong place and thats unfair to every1 but its especially unfair to the group leader, i say again, it is yours if you made it

and no you can be in a party by yourself as silly as that sounds, you still made the group and just like in gw1 thats YOUR group

“just accept it” is a passive way of admiting you know something is wrong, and since you know something is wrong with this you should also be either offering your own or amending mine (not arguing the fundamental philosiphy of autonomy)

Kittened if they do, kittened if they don’t.

Some parties were meant to fail (given your 2 hour fractal experience, which, although terrible to hear, is just one example). An easy fix is to group with guildmates or friends. If you have a pleasant experience running a dungeon, let them know and party with them again for future runs.

I admit, this system isn’t perfect. No system is perfect, and if there is one, it doesn’t exist. Let’s bump the number of people to kick a person to 3 instead of 2. But that’s difficult for some programming reason (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dungeon-Instance-Owner-change-FTW/first#post4336064). Well, we know that party chat disappears so it’s difficult to track who did the kicking (for griefing or otherwise). At least ANet is working on that (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dungeon-Instance-Owner-change-FTW/first#post4336287).

The only thing I don’t agree with is that the party leader, dungeon owner, or whoever you’re arguing for (because you keep changing it) should be immune to kicks. If that person honestly is kittening around and being disrespectful, then why should that person not get kicked? Your suggestion only strengthens the leader/owner, and does nothing for the party members who want an enjoyable experience. ANet’s idea about making the LFG debug messages visible will help protect the party members too. This way, all players of the party can have protection.

(Edited to fix second link.)

What ANet has “said” with this change is that there is no single owner of an instance. That before the owner was the first in the instance was wrong and their departure shouldn’t cause the instance to derez.

Issues about “owning” and kicking others is an entirely different discussion over this bug fix.

Duke Nukem.6783:

you just proved exactly why this change is a bad idea, you think its ok to kick me for the way i want to play, its not, your wrong, no debate on that, and anet will aggree

Nope.

So long as another person in the party agrees with me, I am allowed to kick you.

I’m allowed to kick you if you’re not doing anything and are spending all your time talking trash in partychat.
I’m allowed to kick you if I don’t like the color of your eyes. I don’t do this because I try not to be a knobhead, but if someone agrees with me, that kick can go through.

You talk about ‘rights’ but these aren’t things that are established in the game. There is no such thing as a ‘right’. There are game mechanics, and that’s it.

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

When you are in party do you see party leader icon somewhere? Is some player marked differently? Has more power than other players? Nope? Because there is no party leader in anets system. All players in group are equal none of them own the others or host the others in their “home”. You don’t own anything being party leader is just some silly illusion you created for yourself to justify why you cant be touched and need to be treated differently than others. Your system will never happen, party leaders do not exist.

your so right lets add a party leader icon (since we now need one cuz of this update)

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

you just proved exactly why this change is a bad idea, you think its ok to kick me for the way i want to play, its not, your wrong, no debate on that, and anet will aggree

Don’t get me wrong i would not kick anyone based on their build, i just have a ranger alt and i know how ineficient it is. Other party members have to work harder because you do only half of a persons work, so i can see how some can be unhappy with it and want to kick you. You kind of bring it on yourself.

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

When you are in party do you see party leader icon somewhere? Is some player marked differently? Has more power than other players? Nope? Because there is no party leader in anets system. All players in group are equal none of them own the others or host the others in their “home”. You don’t own anything being party leader is just some silly illusion you created for yourself to justify why you cant be touched and need to be treated differently than others. Your system will never happen, party leaders do not exist.

your so right lets add a party leader icon (since we now need one cuz of this update)

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

you just proved exactly why this change is a bad idea, you think its ok to kick me for the way i want to play, its not, your wrong, no debate on that, and anet will aggree

Don’t get me wrong i would not kick anyone based on their build, i just have a ranger alt and i know how ineficient it is. Other party members have to work harder because you do only half of a persons work, so i can see how some can be unhappy with it and want to kick you. You kind of bring it on yourself.

i bring your opinion of a specific build on myself? no i do not, you prove your ignorance and narrow mindedness again and we NEED protection from your ignorance, you are a menace and your pre conceived notions of your ranger do not translate to my ranger (or anyone’s ranger) and no amount of reporting kickers can fix this, and even if they all get perma banned (which they should) am i going to get my time back? no

Lucyfer.9517:

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

Why? This game is advertised as ‘’play the way you want to play’‘… not play the way other people decide they want you to play because else you can get kicked for no reason other than they didn’t like it.

Well now instead of joing a “help needed at lupi” party, people will join in and kick those in need and continue the dungeon. Oh joy

TheFamster.7806:

Well now instead of joing a “help needed at lupi” party, people will join in and kick those in need and continue the dungeon. Oh joy

They do this already. They just need to enter the dungeon first. This change isn’t a fix for that.

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

When you are in party do you see party leader icon somewhere? Is some player marked differently? Has more power than other players? Nope? Because there is no party leader in anets system. All players in group are equal none of them own the others or host the others in their “home”. You don’t own anything being party leader is just some silly illusion you created for yourself to justify why you cant be touched and need to be treated differently than others. Your system will never happen, party leaders do not exist.

your so right lets add a party leader icon (since we now need one cuz of this update)

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

you just proved exactly why this change is a bad idea, you think its ok to kick me for the way i want to play, its not, your wrong, no debate on that, and anet will aggree

Don’t get me wrong i would not kick anyone based on their build, i just have a ranger alt and i know how ineficient it is. Other party members have to work harder because you do only half of a persons work, so i can see how some can be unhappy with it and want to kick you. You kind of bring it on yourself.

i bring your opinion of a specific build on myself? no i do not, you prove your ignorance and narrow mindedness again and we NEED protection from your ignorance, you are a menace and your pre conceived notions of your ranger do not translate to my ranger (or anyone’s ranger) and no amount of reporting kickers can fix this, and even if they all get perma banned (which they should) am i going to get my time back? no

Who is this “we” you keep talking about? As far as i know you want protection only to your imaginary party leader position, for yourself and no one else. You say i’m ignorant and narrowminded, that i’m a menace, yet no arguments to back it up. You clearly lack arguments and started hurling insults instead. I’m done conversing with you.

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

When you are in party do you see party leader icon somewhere? Is some player marked differently? Has more power than other players? Nope? Because there is no party leader in anets system. All players in group are equal none of them own the others or host the others in their “home”. You don’t own anything being party leader is just some silly illusion you created for yourself to justify why you cant be touched and need to be treated differently than others. Your system will never happen, party leaders do not exist.

your so right lets add a party leader icon (since we now need one cuz of this update)

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

you just proved exactly why this change is a bad idea, you think its ok to kick me for the way i want to play, its not, your wrong, no debate on that, and anet will aggree

Don’t get me wrong i would not kick anyone based on their build, i just have a ranger alt and i know how ineficient it is. Other party members have to work harder because you do only half of a persons work, so i can see how some can be unhappy with it and want to kick you. You kind of bring it on yourself.

i bring your opinion of a specific build on myself? no i do not, you prove your ignorance and narrow mindedness again and we NEED protection from your ignorance, you are a menace and your pre conceived notions of your ranger do not translate to my ranger (or anyone’s ranger) and no amount of reporting kickers can fix this, and even if they all get perma banned (which they should) am i going to get my time back? no

Who is this “we” you keep talking about? As far as i know you want protection only to your imaginary party leader position, for yourself and no one else. You say i’m ignorant and narrowminded, that i’m a menace, yet no arguments to back it up. You clearly lack arguments and started hurling insults instead. I’m done conversing with you.

there r currently 5 threads on the front page with people expressing this exact concern,, and my arguments are detailed and clear throughout this entire thread, did u even bother to go through and read them alll…….or did you just skip to the end result and post the same way you kick good honest alternative people from your dungeon parties! (zing!)

Behellagh.1468:

TheFamster.7806:

Well now instead of joing a “help needed at lupi” party, people will join in and kick those in need and continue the dungeon. Oh joy

They do this already. They just need to enter the dungeon first. This change isn’t a fix for that.

iv heard of greifers doing this but never seen it , its uncomon as malice for the sake of malice is a rare motivation, but greed? u can BET this will become more common once anet makes this change, party leader immunity is the right hting to do regardless

eekzie.5640:

Lucyfer.9517:

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

Why? This game is advertised as ‘’play the way you want to play’‘… not play the way other people decide they want you to play because else you can get kicked for no reason other than they didn’t like it.

You are free to play as you want to play alone. When you want group content, where party members depend on each other, least you could do is carry your weight instead of draging others down. Play as you want, so i understand you would have nothing against runing dungeons with players without armor and with lvl 1 weapons if thats how they want to play?

Lucyfer.9517:

eekzie.5640:

Lucyfer.9517:

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

Why? This game is advertised as ‘’play the way you want to play’‘… not play the way other people decide they want you to play because else you can get kicked for no reason other than they didn’t like it.

You are free to play as you want to play alone. When you want group content, where party members depend on each other, least you could do is carry your weight instead of draging others down. Play as you want, so i understand you would have nothing against runing dungeons with players without armor and with lvl 1 weapons if thats how they want to play?

if they start the party and want to do a “WACKY” run then YES they can do no armor and lv 1 weapons, i think that sounds like an interesting concept, a fun day out on a unique adventure of creativity and imagination……all you see it as is a decrease in your bottom line profits…….

This change is only to fix the problem with the dungeon instance derezing of the “owner”, determined solely by who entered the instance first according to the server, drops or quits.

Everything else being discussed here has nothing to do with that. An improved kick system, instanced “ownership” is entirely a separate set of issues. Yes this change may snap the problems some of us seen with instances being hijacked into sharp focus for ANet because I can see that kind of abuse increasing, but that’s not the reason for this change.

For players who do get along and do instances, this was an annoying problem. They fixed that. Fixing social issues dealing with casual Vs uber players when it comes to instance content, entirely different problem.

Behellagh.1468:

This change is only to fix the problem with the dungeon instance derezing of the “owner”, determined solely by who entered the instance first according to the server, drops or quits.

Everything else being discussed here has nothing to do with that. An improved kick system, instanced “ownership” is entirely a separate set of issues. Yes this change may snap the problems some of us seen with instances being hijacked into sharp focus for ANet because I can see that kind of abuse increasing, but that’s not the reason for this change.

For players who do get along and do instances, this was an annoying problem. They fixed that. Fixing social issues dealing with casual Vs uber players when it comes to instance content, entirely different problem.

you cant ignore that the solution caused a much bigger problem, and can easily be fixed by giving the dungeon owner immunity, which is the right thing to do anyways

We’ll ram that wall when we come to it. But the issue of tying the instance to a particular player was a problem/dumb. There are four other player involved and they shouldn’t have to be at the mercy of either chance or an “owner” who decides unilaterally to pick up their toys and go home either.

my solution:
always dungeon up with trusted guild members.

I think the change is good. We just need greater protections against unjustified kicks now. Increasing the amount of votes from 2 – 3 would be a good start. (And yes, I’m aware that the devs have said that the code structure makes this not easy to do. But I’m hopeful they can come up with a solution in time.)

I’ve read the word “elitist” way too often in this thread…
Anyways, I think that the dungeon reward should promote respectful play, rather than just kicking people if they don’t do what one’s thinking they should do.
To be precise: If you join a group and you don’t reach the criteria they want to have, you get kicked and that’s good. But if you do a mistake, your teammates should rather explain what you’ve done wrong and how you can improve, than simply kicking you. That said, if you do “mistakes” on purpose, you should get kicked.

seriously, anet should just get rid of the kick system, too many psychopaths in this game.

put in an afk timer kicker and we are all set for good.

Zackie.8923:

seriously, anet should just get rid of the kick system, too many psychopaths in this game.

put in an afk timer kicker and we are all set for good.

Erm, no. Definitely not.

Duke Nukem.6783:

you cant ignore that the solution caused a much bigger problem, and can easily be fixed by giving the dungeon owner immunity, which is the right thing to do anyways

Yeah, no. Not at all.

There goes people selling Arah paths for a lot of gold anymore.

I think it should take all in favor vote to kick someone. If the person is really messing up that bad, it would be apparent to all 4 of the other members members that they should be kicked. This would reduce the ability of guild majority parties to kick 2 or 3 people to bring in their friends for the final reward down to just 1 person.