Guild Wars 2

Raid = HARDCORE GAME CONTENT, why not dps meter?….

stop saying “discrimination”, hardcore content need it, the rest of the game is casual, stop crying …

and people ask your things to join raid, so discrimination is allready there

Exactly discrimination will never go away, but there’s no need to make it worse. Hardcore does not = be a jerk to anyone who does not agree with you. The raids are actually pretty easy to do, there’s no need for meters, especially in wing 2 with extremely forgiving enrage timers.

It’s already as easy as it could possibly be to discriminate. If you lose a fight in pve it’s because someone was playing incorrectly. There’s always someone to blame. The only difference a dps meter would bring to a discriminating player is more accurate discrimination.

Answer this: do you think it’s wrong to discriminate against players that are not pulling their weight? Should we not tell such players to either play correctly or make way for someone who will?

There is a relatively good DPS meter out there for you to use if you want. Lemme ask you this, in how many games were DPS meters introduced by the devs? Quite often it’s 3rd party software made by fans.

That being said, ppl do have to jump through a whole lot of loops in GW2 to keep the meter “legal”. ToS rly isn’t forgiving for people making these tools.

Fermi.2409:

The thing is, if you decide to leave things out because people won’t understand it or will misunderstand it there’s not much that you can add. Everyone else shouldn’t be held back because others don’t know how to interpret the results of the tool.

Once gain, I never said that because people will misunderstand or not fully interpret a DPS meter was a reason to not include one (there are plenty of other good reasons as many have said). I simply said that DPS meters focus on DPS, and tend to draw focus to it; while neglecting other important roles or aspects of play.

Fermi.2409:

True, but more information is going to be better then less information in this case.

Better based on what? It would make min/maxing and checking up on your group members easier, but that’s not exactly better.

Fermi.2409:

Because it’s fun and can benefit the group? And the game isn’t necessarily about inclusion, especially when it comes to raids.

And what is the most common use to benefit the group (remove the lowest values…) The GW2 manifesto was HIGHLY based on inclusive gameplay, and I believe the devs are still trying to keep things inclusive vs exclusive. Raids do demand a higher level of coordination, but why put in a tool that will be used to exclude others from ALL group content to benefit a smaller number of plays doing raid content?

Fermi.2409:

It often is or can be, though. And improving and starting to kick out high numbers is awesome.

A competition with the npcs? A competition about kitten swinging and who is “better” based solely on numbers really isn’t a positive addition. Yes kicking out high numbers is fun, but I don’t see how a PERSONAL meter wouldn’t allow you to do this.

Fermi.2409:

Not really. It’s generally a pretty even split.

In this forum post:
I see 5-6 posters saying DPS meters would bring mainly positive.
I see 14-16 posters saying DPS meters would be a waste of time or used in a negative way.

Fermi.2409:

The thing is, it’s a wide-spouted idea without much to back it up. The number of times you state it doesn’t make it any more true, especially without anything to prove it.

It’s no more “wide spouted” then saying GW2 needs DPS meters, or any of the other statements. Though there is plenty of history and other games with DPS meters we can look at to back it up.

Coldtart.4785:

Objections to dps meters are classic examples of the no-perfect-solution fallacy. Just because players that are already idiotic will find a new way to be idiots if given a tool beyond their intelligence doesn’t mean it’s a bad tool. The very same people that would supposedly become ‘toxic’ when given dps meters are already being ‘toxic’.

Dps meters are useful to people that care about winning. Given that raids are supposed to be for players that care about winning I don’t see why there’s a problem.

get over yourself. for your information very very skilled players also disagree with the negative affects of meter, we have hard historical evidence to back that up. I myself was a ‘hardcore raider’ to the point where I spent 3 years raiding 20 hours a week with over 10k hours on 1 character. with a top 3 guild on silvermoon (thats 20 hours in 1 instance per week). I studied meters, i used Rawr, I was regularly top 50 on WOL for all classes. I know the advantages it gives, and like many many others I know the foul affect shared meters have on a community. Being 5% more efficient does not balance the negative affects. Personal private meters are however fine.

Fortunately Anet do as well.

If you could only use it to measure your own DPS and no one elses, it would be nice.

The game is so mechanically complex that doing the math to attempt to simulate the rotations in two different builds and calculate which has higher DPS is borderline impossible. Too many factors you have to consider on paper and I am too lazy to do it.

Just being able to test in game and get immediate results for comparison would be nice. I could finally put some questions to rest about what is higher DPS in elementalist.

Coldtart.4785:

Dps meters are useful to people that care about winning. Given that raids are supposed to be for players that care about winning I don’t see why there’s a problem.

Perhaps this is why we don’t have them. Players should care about having fun overall. You can still care about winning and still win without a DPS meter.

The only thing a DPS meter will do is let you win faster. That’s only fun until it’s routine.

Eloid.4569:

Raid = HARDCORE GAME CONTENT, why not dps meter?….

stop saying “discrimination”, hardcore content need it, the rest of the game is casual, stop crying …

You don’t need it, you want it.

Eloid.4569:

Raid = HARDCORE GAME CONTENT, why not dps meter?….

stop saying “discrimination”, hardcore content need it, the rest of the game is casual, stop crying …

I agree with the previous poster, want and need are getting mixed up here. People have completed the raid without a DPS meter, so you probably don’t need it.

As for hardcore content vs the rest of the game. You may want a group dps meter for “hardcore” content, but that is not the content the majority of players will be playing. The DPS meter would infact impact the rest of the game as well.

Miku.6297:

DGraves.3720:

Discrimination is currently based on rumor rather than numerical fact.

Discrimination based on either isn’t a positive outcome. A DPS meter just makes it that much easier to single out another player and exclude them based on the numbers shown. Most people probably don’t join runs and say “Hi guys I’m running an un-optimal build”. They enter do the run and everyone goes their own way.

I have to admit I smiled at the “tools are tools”. Not sure if you meant it in all ways possible it just seems so fitting for the subject at hand xD.

I agree Pugs currently don’t feel as picky, but that’s partial because as you said, there is no numeric data given to the pugs to use as a basis for discrimination. Put a group displayed DPS meter into place, and I almost guarantee it will be used to exclude and ridicule other players.

The thing is discrimination isn’t going away. But what could be established is a true minimum required to win for a class and so long as a player meets that minimum no one will fuss. But there is numeric data given (sadly); it’s by a few “elite” players who post their builds as “the best” and offer numbers that no one tests because no one genuinely knows how to and they post enticing video that supports both their skill level and their rotation but skill level is a massive part of those videos so players wander about copying thinking they are doing crazy damage.

That said, ridicule is going to come to others no matter what; so long as they don’t know you’re running Minstrel’s Warrior though and so long as you meet that base you’ll likely face even less discrimination. Because PUGs know something that many people don’t acknowledge: “Fun first.” Most people aren’t running optimized builds. Couldn’t care less.

Would be further used to stop rangers in pvp (lack of dps), and stop rangers in raids(ele healing is > than druids), and in general every class > ranger in pve. So, no.

No.

If I wanted a game with that level of childish bullcrap, I would go back to WoW. Maybe that’s what you should do?

DGraves.3720:

The thing is discrimination isn’t going away. But what could be established is a true minimum required to win for a class and so long as a player meets that minimum no one will fuss.

That’s true it’s not going away, but it doesn’t need to be encouraged either, a DPS meter gives numerical proof so now there is hard data to prove someone is right when they ridicule or discriminate against another player? Why would that be a good thing.

It sounds like you got burned by a build you liked being under valued then someone else running it and it picking up steam. I think alot of people have had something like that happen (at least those who don’t just go to a sight to get a build). I know it’s happend to me, but it’s not really a big deal who came up with what first.

The one to Rule.2593:

after seeing the toxicity of many in raids, And I raid a lot…. I’m gonna say no, it’d just be used to discriminate people.

but game is all about dps o.O, so why not?

DPS meter = fastest way to get most of the players to leave …. map chat is already bad enough with telling people how to play

Menadena.7482:

DPS meter = fastest way to get most of the players to leave …. map chat is already bad enough with telling people how to play

Would you prefer people remain silent and we just collectively lose all the HoT map meta events, because people won’t do the relatively simple actions, like CCing break bars, required to win?

It’s not WBT anymore where you can’t fail. This is what happens when the game includes large scale inclusive events that can be failed, because a significant percentage of the player base cannot handle anything more than auto attacking.

Or unwilling to contribute more. Instead, they are hoping they can be carried while chatting with friends.

I don’t think the game needs a DPS meter, outside of personal DPS for testing builds, but if the game ever intends to include events that can fail due to a lack of damage, then yeah…that is the reality of the situation and people will hound other people into pulling their weight.

People hounding other people is really something that I hope A-net continues to try to avoid. That’s why I’m against a group DPS meter, a personal one I have no issue with, and actually think could be useful for many players.

MadRabbit.3179:

Menadena.7482:

DPS meter = fastest way to get most of the players to leave …. map chat is already bad enough with telling people how to play

(…)

I don’t think the game needs a DPS meter, outside of personal DPS for testing builds, but if the game ever intends to include events that can fail due to a lack of damage, then yeah…that is the reality of the situation and people will hound other people into pulling their weight.

I think that is the worst design a mmo should adopt(well im talking about game DPS only driven), for that means stats are mandatory to play in one way out of several possible, imo that is a huge development fail, means lack of capacity for more.

Miku.6297:

People hounding other people is really something that I hope A-net continues to try to avoid. That’s why I’m against a group DPS meter, a personal one I have no issue with, and actually think could be useful for many players.

Look, if you really want players to stop hounding other players, then the game has to go back to the WBT days. If an event does not require anything more than autoattacking, then it cannot plausibly result in failure. If there is no failure, there is no salt and no reason for players to hound other players.

But in the absence of that, with mechanics that if not done right will result in a loss, then a public DPS meter is just a tool to help ensure the event is successful and 80% of the people contributing don’t lose out, because of the 20% that aren’t.

It’s not the core of the problem; it’s not what causes the hounding. The core of the problem is even simple mechanics, one’s that just require players to use a CC ability when a bar turns blue, is just beyond the capabilities or willingness of a percentage of the players participating in the inclusive map meta events.

And since the events are inclusive, there is absolutely nothing commanders can do about them except attempt to hound them in map chat.

Miku.6297:

DGraves.3720:

The thing is discrimination isn’t going away. But what could be established is a true minimum required to win for a class and so long as a player meets that minimum no one will fuss.

That’s true it’s not going away, but it doesn’t need to be encouraged either, a DPS meter gives numerical proof so now there is hard data to prove someone is right when they ridicule or discriminate against another player? Why would that be a good thing.

Let’s think of this in reverse: If you are accused of being worthless and not doing your part by someone with a higher reputation than you what exactly do you have in your defense? My concern is not for hardproof of a truth but for simple hearsay being a strong dictator of player behavior. People lie, people are wrong, people theorize poorly, and people throw their weight around sometimes even subconsciously. If the person who states you are worthless has always hated the class you play and always thought them worthless what defense do you have? Necromancers and Rangers have experienced this pretty much from launch and just recently have been given partial credit for their abilities. All based on hearsay and a few people going, “They’re dumb” but happening to be popular.

It sounds like you got burned by a build you liked being under valued then someone else running it and it picking up steam. I think alot of people have had something like that happen (at least those who don’t just go to a sight to get a build). I know it’s happend to me, but it’s not really a big deal who came up with what first.

No, actually many of my ideas were undervalued then came to be noted later on but that’s not the point. My point is exactly as I state above; people are defenseless and rank and reputation are king right now. That needs to change. Meritocracy is far better than Aristocracy.

rubbish, GW1 did not have dps meters for its raids that were a lot of fun and could wipe the whole raids attempts for the night easily. this is just tunnel vision based on limited experience by naive commander who try to normalise complicated behaviour and funnel into dps/tank/xx roles so they can micro manage..poor leaders micro manage. A great TEAM works together and knows there strengths and weaknesses, the team does not need a whoore-meter to work out why they went wrong, they can see it from the fight. Remove the meter crutch and people learn to be reactive.

Next will be addons like deadly boss mods eh where there is a ‘need’ to have progress bars to tell people when to jump – symptomatic of a dated encounter design philosophy where a game is based on power curves.

DGraves.3720:

Let’s think of this in reverse: If you are accused of being worthless and not doing your part by someone with a higher reputation than you what exactly do you have in your defense? My concern is not for hardproof of a truth but for simple hearsay being a strong dictator of player behavior. People lie, people are wrong, people theorize poorly, and people throw their weight around sometimes even subconsciously. If the person who states you are worthless has always hated the class you play and always thought them worthless what defense do you have? Necromancers and Rangers have experienced this pretty much from launch and just recently have been given partial credit for their abilities. All based on hearsay and a few people going, “They’re dumb” but happening to be popular.

Right I get that, a person could be falsely accused, at the same time false accusations based on opinion is not going to be as prevalent as if a measuring stick is applied to everyone.

Look at your statement in reverse, if a DPS meter is applied and numeric proof is established, if a class is always on the lower end how would having that be posted for everyone to see benefit the player?

DGraves.3720:

No, actually many of my ideas were undervalued then came to be noted later on but that’s not the point. My point is exactly as I state above; people are defenseless and rank and reputation are king right now. That needs to change. Meritocracy is far better than Aristocracy.

Sorry that’s what I meant, you had undervalued ideas that later became valued. I agree 100% merit of proof is better then just reputation or word of mouth. My concern is: if build B is actually better then build A even though reputation/hearsay says other wise currently. If a DPS meter came in and proved in terms of DPS build B is actually better, build A and build B have simply switched place. The difference being if you are not in build B the DPS meter shows it to the whole group.

Builds and guides posted could utilize a personal DPS meter just as well, without the negative effects of a group DPS meter.

MadRabbit.3179:

there is absolutely nothing commanders can do about them except attempt to hound them in map chat.

I do understand theres nothing a commander can do about it, I guess I just don’t think a group DPS meter would make this situation any better. Just how often does “hounding” another player elicit a good response?

I would love an area to have test dummies, a DPS and other metrics. I don’t need it for people to spy on me running standard content. It could be a nice tool to tweak builds and become a better player. But oh well.

Let’s look at this another way: ANet could set up a raid-only, opt-in DPS meter, i.e. it only works in raids and only if all 10 players in the squad agree. I’m sure that a lot of “non-hardcore” players would make use of it under those circumstances.

However, setting that up costs ANet in time, dev resources, QA, configuration management, future code management (if they change underlying mechanics of how damage works or include heals or support contributions). And it still might not be used by the majority of players.

If you’re in ANet’s shoes, would this be something you would prioritize? or something that you’d consider as a Quality-of-Life improvement of low-urgency?

In other words, it might be a Godsend for too few people (never mind that it’s also controversial to some).

Miku.6297:

I do understand theres nothing a commander can do about it, I guess I just don’t think a group DPS meter would make this situation any better. Just how often does “hounding” another player elicit a good response?

Well, here’s the deal.

We barely break half the bar on matriarch in VB.

I start hounding everyone as a commander in chat, because if we don’t break it and end the fight quickly, we won’t get T4.

Next bar stage, we break 75% of the bar.

I hound even more.

Next bar stage, we break it.

So either, players are joining the fight who are contributing to the break bar or my hounding did something.

Can’t be sure, but I’ve experienced this scenario quite a lot.

I think it depends on your definition of “hounding”; actively leading and giving direction is one thing.

Hounding has a more negative connotation: harass, persecute, or pursue relentlessly.

A DPS meter probably wouldn’t measure how well someone handles a break bar… It’s also different calling for people in general to do x or y at certain points in a fight. Vs calling people out for performance on a DPS meter.

Miku.6297:

I think it depends on your definition of “hounding”; actively leading and giving direction is one thing.

Hounding has a more negative connotation: harass, persecute, or pursue relentlessly.

A DPS meter probably wouldn’t measure how well someone handles a break bar… It’s also different calling for people in general to do x or y at certain points in a fight. Vs calling people out for performance on a DPS meter.

Well, if I had the tools to be able to adequately tell who isn’t contributing, any such issues would be handled privately in whispers.

We are in agreement that singling out a single player publicly is not right and I couldn’t dismiss the very real scenario where players would do that if those tools were available.

But I still think the core problem here isn’t the tool, but rather the struggle between players wanting to succeed and wanting to have a positive game environment.

I just don’t believe those two factors can successfully co-exist, given the nature of online games. Either make the content so easy it can’t fail or accept that this is how it will be with players tearing into each other in public channels when failure happens.

The cultural climate change in map chat that began to appear with the new maps and escalated into what it is now in HoT was not a huge surprise to me. I was anticipating it the moment they stated challenging open world content as a design goal.

GW2 didn’t develop the reputation of having a positive gaming community just because it was lucky enough to get the right players. It happened, because the original game at launch was designed from the ground up to remove as many elements as possible that cause salt.

MadRabbit.3179:

I just don’t believe those two factors can successfully co-exist, given the nature of online games. Either make the content so easy it can’t fail or accept that this is how it will be with players tearing into each other in public channels when failure happens.

The cultural climate change in map chat that began to appear with the new maps and escalated into what it is now in HoT was not a huge surprise to me. I was anticipating it the moment they stated challenging open world content as a design goal.

I agree, the main issue is if people aren’t winning/succeeding they aren’t happy. At the same time players request more challenging content… If content is challenging it’s not always going to be beaten.

Haha yea that’s true, having challenging open world content as a goal is pretty much a guaranteed way to increase the sodium level of the environment. From the day Tea kettle was released with his update, to this day with HOT that result is unfortunately what happens.

I guess just see more negative outcomes coming from a group wide DPS meter than positives.

Miku.6297:

A DPS meter probably wouldn’t measure how well someone handles a break bar…

The thing about DPS meters is, they can be far more than just DPS meters. They’re combat log analysis tools. GW2’s combat log is far too basic, but in other games, the tool would show things like who used what CC on that break bar, who cleansed what, who dodged, who stood in fire, etc.

I doubt GW2 will ever see a group DPS meter, since that would probably mean a lot of work on the backend, but the ability to create a personal one is already on the table.

Esquilax.3491:

Just pitching in to say that with my 10 years of mmo experience in WoW, both damage meters and “item score” contributed nothing positive to that game.

Gear score was simply used to speed up the process. Originally, the main group would inspect every person in the raid to check their gear.

DPS meters have many positives. Before them, anyone suspected of sucking, any classes that weren’t a part of the meta were simply kicked or rejected. The DPS meter could show that your unique build was good or that you in lesser gear was parsing higher than that min/maxed raider who lacked skill and complained about everyone else.

Miku.6297:

A DPS meter probably wouldn’t measure how well someone handles a break bar…

And that’s not actually true, by the way, just as a side note. Break bars work off calculations nearly identical to damage with each CC skill having it’s own unique break bar damage value.

It creates some interesting implications. A mesmer, for example, has skills that can pretty shatter a break bar single handedly, but a very long cooldown, influencing how often they can do it. On the other hand, if I devote multiple utility slots and use a pistol offhand, I can consistently break a non scaled champion’s break bar with my daredevil, because those skills do lesser break bar damage, but have shorter cooldowns so they can be cycled more.

So if you had a meter that measured these contributions, each player’s resulting contribution will be different based on their class, but everyone’s name should appear in the list from time to time, because, to be honest, if you are pugging a map meta, you should have, at least, one CC skill in on your utility bar.

Now, obviously, a mesmer will make a big hit maybe once every three break bars, while I will appear on the list as a thief every break bar. But over the course of like 3 bars, everyone’s name should have appeared once in the lists or they just aren’t contributing.

Nah it wouldn’t be a godsend. It’s nice to have a game without one.

If you really want a DPS meter in your MMO, there are lots of other games out there that have them. Go play one of those, instead

MadRabbit.3179:

Miku.6297:

A DPS meter probably wouldn’t measure how well someone handles a break bar…

And that’s not actually true, by the way, just as a side note. Break bars work off calculations nearly identical to damage with each CC skill having it’s own unique break bar damage value.

It creates some interesting implications. A mesmer, for example, has skills that can pretty shatter a break bar single handedly, but a very long cooldown, influencing how often they can do it. On the other hand, if I devote multiple utility slots and use a pistol offhand, I can consistently break a non scaled champion’s break bar with my daredevil, because those skills do lesser break bar damage, but have shorter cooldowns so they can be cycled more.

So if you had a meter that measured these contributions, each player’s resulting contribution will be different based on their class, but everyone’s name should appear in the list from time to time, because, to be honest, if you are pugging a map meta, you should have, at least, one CC skill in on your utility bar.

Now, obviously, a mesmer will make a big hit maybe once every three break bars, while I will appear on the list as a thief every break bar. But over the course of like 3 bars, everyone’s name should have appeared once in the lists or they just aren’t contributing.

Yet a traditional DPS meter would most likely pick up the damage (actual damage) not break bar damage done. If you want a Meter that shows, break damage, healing, boons, mortality time, etc that’s a different mater. Yep as a mesmer player I know lots of ways to inflict damage onto a break bar, I just don’t really think a typical DPS meter would track that vs tracking the damage done.

With the last part of your statement I would agree if it were worded as “they just aren’t contributing to the break damage” but saying “they just aren’t contributing” isn’t always true. Yes they could probably be doing something more meaningful by doing break damage, but saying they aren’t contributing is a stretch.

Miku.6297:

With the last part of your statement I would agree if it were worded as “they just aren’t contributing to the break damage” but saying “they just aren’t contributing” isn’t always true. Yes they could probably be doing something more meaningful by doing break damage, but saying they aren’t contributing is a stretch.

It’s fight specific. If you are fighting the Vinetooth in AB, it doesn’t matter how much damage you bring to the table. You CANNOT beat that fight unless you break his bar. If you can’t break his bar, just give up and go home.

The same applies to Matriarch to some extent. Like, you can win the fight without breaking the bar, but it’s an issue of time. Without breaking her bar, even with optimal DPS, you are still looking a 15 minute fight. It chews up all the time of players participating and you can’t accrue enough contribution in the 20 minute window before day break to get T4.

So yeah, to some extent, saying they aren’t contributing is a stretch, but the importance of breaking the bars in some of the HoT metas just overshadows any other contribution.

Yep, that’s why I said they could be doing something more meaningful. ^^; Though most people who are doing this probably don’t understand the mechanic, so your general call outs for break damage/cc will help. Others simply don’t care.

DragonXtwoX.3591:

This is all why I would like to see DPS meters of some sort built into GW2…

Miku.6297:

Right I get that, a person could be falsely accused, at the same time false accusations based on opinion is not going to be as prevalent as if a measuring stick is applied to everyone.

Look at your statement in reverse, if a DPS meter is applied and numeric proof is established, if a class is always on the lower end how would having that be posted for everyone to see benefit the player?

That’s alright though. The reality is simply that some class out there is going to do the best and some class the worst at some element. This isn’t a sin and it isn’t really a problem; no one gets bent out of shape for a DPS difference of even 3,000 being quoted and people still play this or that or whatever in PUGs and as they see fit. I guess, having played many years with many groups, I have found in my time that at the end of the day the metrics themselves don’t really matter too much; a game is a game is a game no matter who takes it way too seriously. People are not so unreasonable that they cannot function with the knowledge that they aren’t max DPS.

Sorry that’s what I meant, you had undervalued ideas that later became valued. I agree 100% merit of proof is better then just reputation or word of mouth. My concern is: if build B is actually better then build A even though reputation/hearsay says other wise currently. If a DPS meter came in and proved in terms of DPS build B is actually better, build A and build B have simply switched place. The difference being if you are not in build B the DPS meter shows it to the whole group.

Builds and guides posted could utilize a personal DPS meter just as well, without the negative effects of a group DPS meter.

Because teamwork is impossible to measure solo. That’s the primary problem with the game currently; you’ve got people with builds that are tested in a certain environment with other people who have a certain skill level talking about how great they are doing. These aren’t PUGs. These are definitely not “average players” (no matter whether they call themselves hardcore or casual or whatever nonsense) and their teams are not consisted of really crappy moments because even their mistakes and slip-ups are better runs than most players.

People need the data of the average group. It isn’t anywhere near as high as “professionals” or “YouTube Personalities”. Not that they are bad people but the belief that the average player is as good as the elitist is like … not a thing. But people still believe it. They still think they are even half as good.

No thanks. Part of the reason GW2 is loved is because of no addons/ no dps meters. Allows for immersion and such , plus feels MUCH more pleasant

I’d like to see what of the conditions does more in actual combat (burn or poison) so I can see if I should rotate differently. I just see the flame/skull popping up and the only thing I can do is either trying to roughly calculate during gameplay or do spend a lot of time of theorycrafting with the numbers in the tooltips.

I can’t see anyone being raging in games like UT or other games with a scoreboard. People with the lowest frags were the bobs, but nobody was mad. Maybe, people changed meanwhile.

There was (still is) a dps meter in gw1, namely in the form of “Master of Damage”.
A npc you attacked and where upon ending an attack session of 1 min (if i recall correctly) he informed you of your total damage, dps and peak damage etc.

That id support entirely, one localized npc somewhere where you could test your builds and see what theyre good for.

But a dps meter in instances or open world that monitors yours and other ppl around you damage like some ui window?.. no.. please, no thank you.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Master_of_Damage

What we need to help us gear our characters better is a way to unlock account-wide stat combinations for level 80 exotics and ascended gear, and also upgrades. Then once that’s done, a way to save and share build templates. So we can try more stat and upgrade combinations without having to carry countless upgrades and sets of gear.

Imagine how much better would have been testing builds during the HoT betas if we had such a system implemented, and all stats and upgrades unlocked for the testing accounts.

Leo G.4501:

Coldtart.4785:

Dps meters are useful to people that care about winning. Given that raids are supposed to be for players that care about winning I don’t see why there’s a problem.

Perhaps this is why we don’t have them. Players should care about having fun overall. You can still care about winning and still win without a DPS meter.

The only thing a DPS meter will do is let you win faster. That’s only fun until it’s routine.

Why is it so hard to understand that for some people playing to win is playing to have fun?

It’s not hard to understand, most people have more fun winning then losing.

I thought raids were for players that wanted more challenging organized content, not for people that like to “play to win” as I don’t think many people play to lose.

You can play to win without using a group DPS meter. A personal meter would make working on your personal performance easier, however I don’t think it’s necessary to check on other players.

Having this would make the game even worse, you would have people asking your dps cap and if it was too low you would be kick or if you didn’t know you would be kicked.

In fact in fractal 40 which I have done on my druid countless times I was asked of I was a healer, which I am since alot of people doing 40 seem to die alot, and was told I should switch to a dps or Condi build, on 40 which is so easy.

So I left and did it with another group whilst they had to wait.

The game had the problem of people going full zerk builds and dying fast which failed some meta maps due to min max dps xD

They would not even revive and return so they would lay their useless.

What the game needs are more people trying new things and less going for meta builds and stats or trying to min max damage

Coldtart.4785:

Leo G.4501:

Coldtart.4785:

Dps meters are useful to people that care about winning. Given that raids are supposed to be for players that care about winning I don’t see why there’s a problem.

Perhaps this is why we don’t have them. Players should care about having fun overall. You can still care about winning and still win without a DPS meter.

The only thing a DPS meter will do is let you win faster. That’s only fun until it’s routine.

Why is it so hard to understand that for some people playing to win is playing to have fun?

My point is you don’t need a DPS meter to play to win.

Miku.6297:

It’s not hard to understand, most people have more fun winning then losing.

I thought raids were for players that wanted more challenging organized content, not for people that like to “play to win” as I don’t think many people play to lose.

You can play to win without using a group DPS meter. A personal meter would make working on your personal performance easier, however I don’t think it’s necessary to check on other players.

How do you benchmark your own performance if you cannot compare with others? You can’t possibly, for the most part, do better if you don’t know what is possible or where you stand. Diablo comes to mind; I had a friend who was content at GR38 and thought his build was awesome … until he saw a video of GR60+. He revised.

By the way that is half the problem. Those who profess that their builds are the best have no regulated way to measure them or competition from others. Claims are only claims.

you benchmark against your own performance. the general population of GW2 don’t give a kitten about who professes what, they play how they want to play (as is intened by Anet), its the ‘minmaxers’ with their dull wit and need to have the best build that have issues here.

DGraves.3720:

By the way that is half the problem. Those who profess that their builds are the best have no regulated way to measure them or competition from others. Claims are only claims.

I don’t believe that’s true. There are plenty of online sources to synthesize builds for other players to critique. There are videos showing gameplay. Guides and tutorials. Etc etc. These may not be perfect sources for what you desire but it’s untrue to claim there is no way to gauge performance.

OP: No, it absolutely would not!

DPS meters only serve to let leet kids think they are better gamers than other players. And that always leads to players creating artificial divides between and exclusions between players. You can take any game where DPS meters dominate and the result is the same. People who think they are elite excluding other players from game play.

In Rift, I saw players posting DPS minimums as prerequisites for other players to be deemed worthy to join groups. That is a a community killer – always has been, always will be. Worse than just creating artificial tiers, it creates a barrier for newer players to gain access to the information needed to become players able to wield higher DPS. It creates an “elite” tier that is almost impossible to break into because the leet kids see their high DPS lore as some to be proud if and to hoard and protect at all cost, and as a reason to deride other player about.

Don’t let this happen to your game.