Guild Wars 2

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Maby DPS meter makes every run a sure bet but it is still not suported in this game and it is not supposed to be needed to play any part of the game.

They do not make anything “sure”. They also aren’t really needed for any part of the game. They are just a handy tool to see how well are you and your team performing and help you improve. They aren’t supported, but they are allowed.

maddoctor.2738:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Another thing, out curiosity… Does the DPS meter tell you if the boons and class effects someone shares are counted in to that characters DPS? For example: If someone goes for a more build with more boons to share but does a little less damage, the boons gives everyone a little more damage output and maby a few more blocks? I bet you see the maximum damage of your whole team offcourse but can you see that the near death experience the other guy had would have been a fatal blow if this player didn’t use regen instead of might? Can you see that this player has more skill than any of the other players?

DPS meters show buff/boon uptime as well as healing and damage. If you parse them correctly you can know who is doing what.

I guessed so. But in regards to the one I responded too… It was most important to have high DPS. I wonder if everyone cares about who is doing what or rather just kick the one not doing alot of DPS. Anyway, dps meter in my eyes serves only one perpose in this game then… Highlevel fractals and Raids (Yes I was/is against raids in this game to begin with) becouse everything else I have managed without any Gearcheck or DPS meter in this game.

Until anet says clearly with their own words that DPSmeters are allowed (Not counting the overlay ones) I will never support DPS meters.

Faaris.8013:

If you actually pay attention to the attributes and pick those that build upon your class strengths, they call it “meta”.

Not limited to your own character. In a group lots of skill provide synergies with/boons to other characters. So it’s not only improving your personal dps, but maybe you can select a trait that improves the whole group’s dps more than another one would improve your personal dps. Hence the name “meta” as in “optimizations one level above your own character”.

Feanor.2358:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Maby DPS meter makes every run a sure bet but it is still not suported in this game and it is not supposed to be needed to play any part of the game.

They do not make anything “sure”. They also aren’t really needed for any part of the game. They are just a handy tool to see how well are you and your team performing and help you improve. They aren’t supported, but they are allowed.

Please give me a link or some kind of evidence where someone from Anet says clearly that it is Allowed?

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Feanor.2358:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Maby DPS meter makes every run a sure bet but it is still not suported in this game and it is not supposed to be needed to play any part of the game.

They do not make anything “sure”. They also aren’t really needed for any part of the game. They are just a handy tool to see how well are you and your team performing and help you improve. They aren’t supported, but they are allowed.

Please give me a link or some kind of evidence where someone from Anet says clearly that it is Allowed?

Here you go:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5sw8ey/arenanets_official_stance_on_3rd_party_dps_meters/?st=j6bztaty&sh=5d928a42

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I wonder if everyone cares about who is doing what or rather just kick the one not doing alot of DPS.

There is one more thing to note here and it applies to the OP. Build and profession perception.
For example, an Elementalist joining a PUG is supposed to be the top damage dealer, that’s the perception of the profession. If he is not at the top of the dps list then he either doesn’t know how to play, or he is using a support build. I think it’s a good idea if someone joins a group but he is not on the expected build/role to say so. An Elementalist can be an excellent healer, however, the expectation is for them to be the top dps instead.
In a very similar way, before the condi ranger build appeared, when you joined a high level fractal or a raid group you were expected to bring Druid. If you weren’t a Druid then good luck.
Group composition is really important and that’s why talking is very important. As I said above, an Elementalist is a good healer, but if the group already has a Druid, then you need to pick one of those, as more than one healer isn’t needed in Fractals at all. Which means, if you join a group as a support Elementalist and you see a Druid, you SHOULD inform the team, so the Druid can change to a condi ranger instead, or they tell you to change to a dps spec.

I’m guessing the op didn’t do any of that, he joined a PUG on his support Elementalist, didn’t do the expected dps and got kicked. That PUG might even had a Druid already, which could certainly cause a lot of misunderstandings. When not using the meta builds, it’s a good thing to inform your team.

Until anet says clearly with their own words that DPSmeters are allowed (Not counting the overlay ones) I will never support DPS meters.

Anet said that dps meters are allowed in the game.

Feanor.2358:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Feanor.2358:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Maby DPS meter makes every run a sure bet but it is still not suported in this game and it is not supposed to be needed to play any part of the game.

They do not make anything “sure”. They also aren’t really needed for any part of the game. They are just a handy tool to see how well are you and your team performing and help you improve. They aren’t supported, but they are allowed.

Please give me a link or some kind of evidence where someone from Anet says clearly that it is Allowed?

Here you go:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5sw8ey/arenanets_official_stance_on_3rd_party_dps_meters/?st=j6bztaty&sh=5d928a42

Thanks, much needed. Sometimes I get realöy angry with anet… Why post this in Redit only, or does they say this on this forums? Is there a sticky?

However I will stop my complains here and now and go download a DPS meter for fun. I love to make build, now I can see if they are good or not. Thoguh I am still against it for reasons to kick players… But that will happen anyway.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

However I will stop my complains here and now and go download a DPS meter for fun. I love to make build, now I can see if they are good or not. Thoguh I am still against it for reasons to kick players… But that will happen anyway.

Yeah, that’s the thing… it happens anyway. So just make use of the tools available for your own fun. You don’t have to kick players just because you run a meter, after all. It’s a choice everyone makes on their own.

Before dps meters we had party search requirement that tried to do the exact same thing. You had to have over 30k achievement points, the right titles that prove that you have finished the content on challange mote, Legendary insights/kill proofs from raids, and in some cases you also had to ping gear on joining. Failing any of those resulted in a kick.

On the more extreme end you had people that wouldn’t even let you in their group to start with until you filled in an application, soloed a 5 man boss encounter, and preferable been personal recommended by someone they trust. The distaste for “pugs” was real and very noticeable.

DPS meters mitigate the need for all that. Some people still behave like that but in my personal experience it is much less common now after DPS meters have become main practice, and I rather not go back to how it was before. Pugs are no longer hated for being pugs, but rather people are judged based on metrics. Those metrics could be flawed, but no one need to solo lupi or MAMA.

It really depends on what youre doing.

Imo, working with the people that join you trumps any metric. Metrics are there to help you improve or show what you have so you can communicate how to move forward.

And sadly, most people, even those if not especially those who are meta biased, are not good enough to play with suboptimal builds.

Feothyr.6072:

maddoctor.2738:

Which is why I said the problem would go away when both LFG creators and LFG joiners know how to type and read respectively.

Agreed. Although I’d argue that always asking for experienced players is a bit short sighted in the long run …

And you would be correct in that belief. That’s about the nicest thing that could be said about it.

Rashagar.8349:

Feothyr.6072:

maddoctor.2738:

Which is why I said the problem would go away when both LFG creators and LFG joiners know how to type and read respectively.

Agreed. Although I’d argue that always asking for experienced players is a bit short sighted in the long run …

And you would be correct in that belief. That’s about the nicest thing that could be said about it.

Actually not. It’s up to me how I want to spend my time. Failing over and over on simple content because someone has no clue about what he is supposed to do in it isn’t my idea of fun. I often don’t mind carrying an inexperienced player in a party of 5. But I’m not skilled enough to do it everywhere and I’m not patient enough to do it all the time. Hence, I prefer to play with experienced players. It’s smoother, it’s faster and it’s more fun.

Omgaar.8735:

Man, I thought the guy who said “So long as you completed the dungeon you played right!” was retar()ded. I assume, according to him, mast()urbating while the other 4 people carry me is “playing right”.

However, this guy who wants to remove the whole reason MMOs exist, the social aspect, is insane. A MMO that doesn’t let you play with whoever you want is going to fail miserably.

All this thread has convinced me of is that people who dislike damage meters are so terrible at the game they want to eliminate kicking so they cannot be removed and premade groups so that way they must be accepted.

You realise that this says more negative about you than it does the people you’re referring to right?

Feanor.2358:

Rashagar.8349:

Feothyr.6072:

maddoctor.2738:

Which is why I said the problem would go away when both LFG creators and LFG joiners know how to type and read respectively.

Agreed. Although I’d argue that always asking for experienced players is a bit short sighted in the long run …

And you would be correct in that belief. That’s about the nicest thing that could be said about it.

Actually not. It’s up to me how I want to spend my time. Failing over and over on simple content because someone has no clue about what he is supposed to do in it isn’t my idea of fun. I often don’t mind carrying an inexperienced player in a party of 5. But I’m not skilled enough to do it everywhere and I’m not patient enough to do it all the time. Hence, I prefer to play with experienced players. It’s smoother, it’s faster and it’s more fun.

None of which is disputing the claim of being a short-sighted practice in the slightest =P

*edit * although it seems that you didn’t put the emphasis on the word “always” in the original quote that I did?

DPS meters are fine, but in my opinion have no place is being used as a tool to judge if others deserve to play with an elitist holier than thou player.
Its a tool for self optimization and premade team optimization, LFG teams should not be perfect, its what makes them fun, not for hitting quotas.

These DPS meters only help a very small percent of people, and are more likely to drive away possibly promising players from playing a game mode that they may have interested in. I can never be fore something that will potentially drive people away due to people and their elitist attitudes. No its not as bas as using arbitrary things like mastery level or achievement points and titles, but do not mistake a lesser of two evils as good.

Feanor.2358:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Feanor.2358:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Maby DPS meter makes every run a sure bet but it is still not suported in this game and it is not supposed to be needed to play any part of the game.

They do not make anything “sure”. They also aren’t really needed for any part of the game. They are just a handy tool to see how well are you and your team performing and help you improve. They aren’t supported, but they are allowed.

Please give me a link or some kind of evidence where someone from Anet says clearly that it is Allowed?

Here you go:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5sw8ey/arenanets_official_stance_on_3rd_party_dps_meters/?st=j6bztaty&sh=5d928a42

I thought they said that meters that read the damage is ok, but there are some that allow someone to gear check other players in the group whether they are running a meter of not, surely that cannot be allowed and has to be against the TOS,

I personally don’t run any DPS meter, I can see how they are useful to teams and players who want to practice to see if they are hitting the higher numbers needed, I have found that in some cases the player who is mouthing off about the DPS is the player who isn’t doing it, ive seen several times where someone in the group was QQing at others players that there DPS was to low, whilst that player was dead on the floor, but because they have the CO tag they can kick at will.

Its going to go back to the same old, Anet gave an inch players wanted a mile, those who use the meters for good and practice in the long term will be punished by those who are power crazy and cannot play well with others.

Ok I Did It.2854:

I thought they said that meters that read the damage is ok, but there are some that allow someone to gear check other players in the group whether they are running a meter of not, surely that cannot be allowed and has to be against the TOS,

From that reddit link:

We have no problems with players using a 3rd party tool whose scope is only to collect and visualize combat data gathered directly from the game client. Anything beyond that scope is still considered a violation of the User Agreement.

Only combat data gathering is allowed. Your gear is not combat data therefore gear checking isn’t allowed

Some people here want to modify their posts. The dps meters that show other peoples’ damage without them using the same tool and having opted in to share it via server, are against the Terms of Use.

BGDM is ok, arcdps not. If you use BGDM and you can see someone else’s dps in a party, it means that person has also installed it and checked the box to share via server. arcdps shows the dps of every party member, without their knowledge or consent.

In my book, dps meters are great. I do T4 fractals with guild members daily, and I guess it just drives us a bit more to not slack. It depends on the role though, we don’t expect the chronomancer to have huge dps, it doesn’t matter, same with a healer druid. I’ve played the encounters often enough to see the difference a chrono or druid makes to my Daredevil, I don’t need a tool for it.

If, however, you join a group that looks for dps, things change. Sometimes I have to pug, and when a group asks for dps, I join. They didn’t look for someone to provide boons or heal, they had these roles covered. They asked for another damage dealer. How do you even know you can join that group and fill your role without dps meter? I don’t have one installed these days only because I know what my dps is, I watched it for weeks. My guess is that many people who play dps classes have no idea that in reality, they suck. Then they join a party as damage dealer and do as much as the chrono. That’s not what you were hired for! If the group didn’t care, they wouldn’t have asked for a damage dealer in the first place. The group wanted a good combination of classes, just because you play an elementalist, it doesn’t mean you deal high damage. What I noticed is that most elementalists deal less damage than rangers or thieves. One of my guild mates plays one and knows what he’s doing and he out-damages me almost every time.

In low level fractals or dungeons, just leave the people alone. If you are really that good, you can carry a less skilled player, or two or three. It’s not the place to expect people to know the mechanics, their class or how to gear up.

Final note: this is a game and there should never be a reason to get into a rage, don’t be too serious.

Faaris.8013:

Some people here want to modify their posts. The dps meters that show other peoples’ damage without them using the same tool and having opted in to share it via server, are against the Terms of Use.

Got a source for this?

There is nothing about it here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5sw8ey/arenanets_official_stance_on_3rd_party_dps_meters/?st=j6bztaty&sh=5d928a42

maddoctor.2738:

Faaris.8013:

Some people here want to modify their posts. The dps meters that show other peoples’ damage without them using the same tool and having opted in to share it via server, are against the Terms of Use.

Got a source for this?

There is nothing about it here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5sw8ey/arenanets_official_stance_on_3rd_party_dps_meters/?st=j6bztaty&sh=5d928a42

Hmm, looks like arcdps is legitimate. I don’t remember why I thought arcdps fails the requirements, it’s been a while since I searched for the rules. Maybe at that point the gear check was still in.

Belorn.2659:

Before dps meters we had party search requirement that tried to do the exact same thing. You had to have over 30k achievement points…

Really? Are you sure you’re not exaggerating here? There’s only 750 people in the game total with over 30k AP.

notebene.3190:

It’s why I probably won’t ever get to make one of the newer style legendaries, since you have to do fractals, and I’m betting no one wants me to tag along.

I did manage an old school Bifrost before HoT, and did Aurora, so that was fun.

Nah, you can still do fractals as the things you need from them you don’t have to be in any high fractals and theres plenty of people like me and my friends that don’t mind doing a fractal or two to help someone get the things from there.

BurningHeavy.7268:

Which is more fair, being kicked due to a perceived and possibly incorrect weakness, or being kicked based on performance? Improve yourself, don’t be carried, do the carrying. Your Dps was LOW. That’s not Anets fault, it’s your fault. use the dummy, find a build, get BETTER.

Whats being more fair is people just playing the game and not kicking a player for any perceived anything. If you suspect someone is doing poorly, that is the time to reassess and maybe help that player. Not look at some class, or numbers and go “nah son bye”.

That kind of nonsense is what Anet originally said they were trying to keep out of their game. Its exclusionary and rude and a big reason why so many WoW players even ended up here in Tyria. It breeds toxic behavior and scale large enough to have many players from all walks point it out.

Belorn.2659:

Before dps meters we had party search requirement that tried to do the exact same thing. You had to have over 30k achievement points, the right titles that prove that you have finished the content on challange mote, Legendary insights/kill proofs from raids, and in some cases you also had to ping gear on joining. Failing any of those resulted in a kick.

On the more extreme end you had people that wouldn’t even let you in their group to start with until you filled in an application, soloed a 5 man boss encounter, and preferable been personal recommended by someone they trust. The distaste for “pugs” was real and very noticeable.

DPS meters mitigate the need for all that. Some people still behave like that but in my personal experience it is much less common now after DPS meters have become main practice, and I rather not go back to how it was before. Pugs are no longer hated for being pugs, but rather people are judged based on metrics. Those metrics could be flawed, but no one need to solo lupi or MAMA.

So, toxic people had to show up front they were being toxic and now they get to hide behind a dps meter and be just as toxic but won’t show themselves until someone looks to join into their group?

Here’s a thought, how about those people make guilds based solely around their perceived “elite” gaming set up and have some kind of rigorous guild membership whatever. If people want to join their guild, its on them to deal with whatever tests and metrics they want to set and if they fail they get kicked from their guild. Outside of that, if those people want to fun high level fractals and raid, they can just do them with their guild. They want to DPS meter anyone, they need to be in their guild. If they do anything with anyone outside of their guild though, they can just hush it and keep the dps meter bs to themselves.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Belorn.2659:

Before dps meters we had party search requirement that tried to do the exact same thing. You had to have over 30k achievement points, the right titles that prove that you have finished the content on challange mote, Legendary insights/kill proofs from raids, and in some cases you also had to ping gear on joining. Failing any of those resulted in a kick.

On the more extreme end you had people that wouldn’t even let you in their group to start with until you filled in an application, soloed a 5 man boss encounter, and preferable been personal recommended by someone they trust. The distaste for “pugs” was real and very noticeable.

DPS meters mitigate the need for all that. Some people still behave like that but in my personal experience it is much less common now after DPS meters have become main practice, and I rather not go back to how it was before. Pugs are no longer hated for being pugs, but rather people are judged based on metrics. Those metrics could be flawed, but no one need to solo lupi or MAMA.

So, toxic people had to show up front they were being toxic and now they get to hide behind a dps meter and be just as toxic but won’t show themselves until someone looks to join into their group?

Here’s a thought, how about those people make guilds based solely around their perceived “elite” gaming set up and have some kind of rigorous guild membership whatever. If people want to join their guild, its on them to deal with whatever tests and metrics they want to set and if they fail they get kicked from their guild. Outside of that, if those people want to fun high level fractals and raid, they can just do them with their guild. They want to DPS meter anyone, they need to be in their guild. If they do anything with anyone outside of their guild though, they can just hush it and keep the dps meter bs to themselves.

haha, you expect elites to befriend others. They will just end up kicking everyone else out for having an off day where their dps is sub-optimal!

Why do you think they play public, because no one wants to play with them and their elite attitude. Otherwise, they would.

I understand that getting kicked is annoying and aggravating, but don’t the people doing the kicking have the right to associate and play how they want too?

Blockhead Magee.3092:

I understand that getting kicked is annoying and aggravating, but don’t the people doing the kicking have the right to associate and play how they want too?

They have the right to choose to kick, but we still have the right to say its a kitten move of an elitist.

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

I understand that getting kicked is annoying and aggravating, but don’t the people doing the kicking have the right to associate and play how they want too?

They have the right to choose to kick, but we still have the right to say its a kitten move of an elitist.

Yes, labeling and calling each other names will always end well. Kitten elitists and kitten casuals will be forever locked in a world of kitten.

Why not begginer mode raids? getting meta is a bit of a learning curve to ask off casual newbs. but lots of casual nubs would like to raid. Begginer mode to kindle a passion for raiding instead of all the hassle of being perfect first raid, or more likely…. being the carried burden.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

I understand that getting kicked is annoying and aggravating, but don’t the people doing the kicking have the right to associate and play how they want too?

They have the right to choose to kick, but we still have the right to say its a kitten move of an elitist.

Yes, labeling and calling each other names will always end well. Kitten elitists and kitten casuals will be forever locked in a world of kitten.

actions have consequences, the act of kicking someone like that has the consequence of people disliking you and giving the player base a bad name. There is nothing wrong with discouraging the elitist attitude by calling it like it is seen.

Nightrous.6732:

Why not begginer mode raids? getting meta is a bit of a learning curve to ask off casual newbs. but lots of casual nubs would like to raid. Begginer mode to kindle a passion for raiding instead of all the hassle of being perfect first raid, or more likely…. being the carried burden.

its not practical. Good in theory, but in the end the players will not learn the lesson that would be needed to register the numbers, and the people using these programs will not be the ones running these training raids… their time is too valuable to themselves, why else do you think they would rather waste time by kicking people?

Yeah. Hardness modes for raids r totally unfeasable. thats why so many mmo’s only have one difficulty level of raids. ohhh wait, most mmo’s do have difficulty levels to raids? lots want to raid casually, for fun. let the elitist meta’s do their nightmare mode raids. maybe they would be less toxic if druids in soldiers were in the begginer raids not with them in nightmare mode raids. And lets scrap T1-T3 fractals too. If u weren’t born ready to jump straight into Teir 4 fractals u’ll never amount to anything.

Faaris.8013:

maddoctor.2738:

Faaris.8013:

Some people here want to modify their posts. The dps meters that show other peoples’ damage without them using the same tool and having opted in to share it via server, are against the Terms of Use.

Got a source for this?

There is nothing about it here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5sw8ey/arenanets_official_stance_on_3rd_party_dps_meters/?st=j6bztaty&sh=5d928a42

Hmm, looks like arcdps is legitimate. I don’t remember why I thought arcdps fails the requirements, it’s been a while since I searched for the rules. Maybe at that point the gear check was still in.

It is BGDM that used to fail the requirements because it had QoL and gear check running in a “tos friendly” build without anyone but select few knowing it. No idea if it is still true but it was pretty shady.

Nightrous.6732:

Why not begginer mode raids? getting meta is a bit of a learning curve to ask off casual newbs. but lots of casual nubs would like to raid. Begginer mode to kindle a passion for raiding instead of all the hassle of being perfect first raid, or more likely…. being the carried burden.

WoW has beginner mode raids and I can tell you from experience people don’t learn anything from them. The current difficulty is really not that bad all you need is to find a training group. In essence we already have two modes. We have normal mode and CM. Normal is perfectly viable to train and learn on.

Nightrous.6732:

Why not begginer mode raids? getting meta is a bit of a learning curve to ask off casual newbs. but lots of casual nubs would like to raid. Begginer mode to kindle a passion for raiding instead of all the hassle of being perfect first raid, or more likely…. being the carried burden.

Let me put it that way: We have a kittenload of beginner content of various difficulties (from vanilla open world faceroll to T4 fractals and all the stuff like dungeons in between) and how much does it help? Little to not at all, obviously. The experience from WoW with all its different modes is the same, people don’t learn from easy content.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6txv55/farewell_gw2_people/

It seems Anet has make their stance for the issue of dps meter.

Use it at your own risk, and there’s no-one to blame if you get banned.

You are misunderstanding. It’s not that dps meters aren’t allowed. They’ve already said over and over that they are, so long as checking dps is the only thing they do. In this case Anet gave a warning to stop making the non-compliant version and while Bhagawan separated the compliant and non-compliant gear check version that was not enough. Please stop making it seem like dps meters are not allowed. They ARE allowed.

I’ll post this again for emphasis:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5svug8/the_head_of_the_snake_devs_here_ask_us_anything/ddi77u2/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/66m13h/anet_this_really_should_be_part_of_the_game/dgjwapj/

No Xarallei he didn’t misunderstand as BGDM and arcdp are the mostly used and Anet made their stance about the semi compliant BGDM, no direct memory compliant dps meter is available atm. So everyone using such one now is in direct violation with TOS.

IMO…

Are the mobs and bosses dying, and at a pace we all can accept?
Are whipes infrequent to none?
Everyone in team seem competent and thus surviving majority of the fights?

If the answer is yes to all of these, then play the game!

I’ve had friends turned down for raids due to low gear score (WoW), low dps, etc. from raids they had ran before and had no issues at all. I like the system where games have imposed levels at which certain dungeons unlock. Yet players demaning more and more and more has gotten out of hand. I remember the days when peeps didn’t care. Yes we all wiped more, and groups sometimes fell apart. Yet it made the game more fun as every fight was something we had to focus on. A bad pull could cause a whipe. It added suspense and made victory all the more rewarding. Now, the “you all are here for me, so I can get item x” mentality is ruining games. I’ve even seen groups disband due to a wipe on the 3rd boss in a dungeon when we 1-shot every boss before it. People just have no patience and see everyone else as servants to them, to help them get the item they need.

Feanor.2358:

sorudo.9054:

Feanor.2358:

TheNecrosanct.4028:

BurningHeavy.7268:

How? Explain how? Without dps meters community perception is all that would matter. There would be nothing but ele’s and buff kittenes. With DPS meters eles doing 8dps will get kicked because they are bad, while guardians doing 20k dps will be kept around, even tho their class isn’t meta at the current time. This does NOTHING but improve the game.

This does not improve the game, it improves your personal experience. Those are 2 very different things. You make it sound like a dps-meter is essential for raids, but it most certainly is not. Pay more attention to the screen instead of the overlay and you’ll find the less skilled players are easy to spot. This game never needed dps-meters and it certainly doesn’t need them now, definitely not one that shows other people’s dps and gear.

While you’re technically correct, I find dps meters to be tools of great value. Being able to spot problems in dps or buff coverage, or various other uptimes, can help optimize your play and your group. Just because a tool can be used for toxicity doesn’t mean it is only used for it. Nor does it mean they cause it. Toxicity originate in the players, not their tools. Take away one tool, they’ll find another. It’s just that simple.

but the tool does spur the toxicity more then without one, remove the tool and ppl need to experience a player more direct rather then relying on a tool to tell them what to do.

Wrong. People like to evaluate fast. Remove the dps meter and they’ll go back to judging you based on your AP and mastery level. Meaning less actual in-game experience with you. Not to mention it will be a lot less relevant.

DPS is irrelevant, as long as you only DPS you will get wiped quite fast.
all you care about is speed, i care about quality.
i rather play for 2 hours and have fun then to be pressured to play something within 15 minutes and hate it, i think that’s the difference between fun players and elitists.

When someone like the developer of BGDM continues to push the boundaries, even after multiple warnings, then they put all future add ons in jeopardy.

If meters comply with the TOS, then there should be no problem. However, if a DPS meter violates the terms of service, however, it should be banned on the spot with minimal warning. Either get it right or don’t do it.

Developers waste too much time policing these things and chasing after violators. A zero tolerance policy for violators is the only way to ensure future tools can be created without pulling away valuable developer resources.

RedZebra.2345:

No Xarallei he didn’t misunderstand as BGDM and arcdp are the mostly used and Anet made their stance about the semi compliant BGDM, no direct memory compliant dps meter is available atm. So everyone using such one now is in direct violation with TOS.

Eh, did you bother to read the dev’s posts about this? I mean you clearly didn’t, but just asking you, wouldn’t it be better to do that first?

Blaeys.3102:

When someone like the developer of BGDM continues to push the boundaries, even after multiple warnings, then they put all future add ons in jeopardy.

Good. The sooner mass-banwaves happen over this and people play MMORPGs which actually care about UI customization and decent UI capabilities instead, the sooner the vote-with-your-wallet voice might carry on to ANet’s account balance and hence their design teams.

Because really, this game’s UI is as terrible as the game itself is amazing. It’s not just unmoddable, what is there is screaming more for mods than moddable UIs in other MMORPGs are. Lack of features, yet still visually cluttered and confusing. It’s a marvel of (mis-)design, in a way.

Blaeys.3102:

Developers waste too much time policing these things and chasing after violators. A zero tolerance policy for violators is the only way to ensure future tools can be created without pulling away valuable developer resources.

Chriss Cleary is a security lead. Chasing after violators and policing things is what he does.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Blaeys.3102:

Developers waste too much time policing these things and chasing after violators. A zero tolerance policy for violators is the only way to ensure future tools can be created without pulling away valuable developer resources.

Chriss Cleary is a security lead. Chasing after violators and policing things is what he does.

He could still be spending time on more important matters. He was WAY to lenient with this guy. The ban should have happened months ago.

Historically, the reason these kinds of things were frowned upon is because Anet didn’t want to have to spend unnecessary developer resources and time on them – and that is exactly what has happened.

When they continue to develop these kinds of things – even after they have been told they violate the TOS – then they put all addons – even widely praised ones like TaCO – at risk, and no one wants that.

Implement a zero tolerance policy – ban the violators – praise the people adhering to policy – and move on with business.

RedZebra.2345:

No Xarallei he didn’t misunderstand as BGDM and arcdp are the mostly used and Anet made their stance about the semi compliant BGDM, no direct memory compliant dps meter is available atm. So everyone using such one now is in direct violation with TOS.

On the contrary. The developer was banned because BGDM was non-compliant (not “semi-compliant”). ANet has expressly said that people using BGDM wouldn’t be dinged as a result of the developer’s choices.

According to Arc’s author, all the non-compliant bits have been removed.

RedZebra.2345:

No Xarallei he didn’t misunderstand as BGDM and arcdp are the mostly used and Anet made their stance about the semi compliant BGDM, no direct memory compliant dps meter is available atm. So everyone using such one now is in direct violation with TOS.

For god’s sake read what Chris said in those threads. Chris also responded in the new goodbye thread as well. Meters generally ARE legal. The thing that got Bhagawan into trouble is he insisted on releasing a non-compliant version of his tool as well as the compliant one. Arc does not have a non-compliant version anymore. Stop spreading misinformation.

@Carighan. I did, i’v been following the posts since long on reddit. He did push the boundaries. The games UI (there you have point) is no excuse to change the gameplay in a way which is not intended by ANET (in ALL regions). Therefor they have TOS.
If you split up compliant and non-compliant, you know in advance people go around and use the non compliant.

RedZebra.2345:

@Carighan. I did, i’v been following the posts since long on reddit. He did push the boundaries. The games UI (there you have point) is no excuse to change the gameplay in a way which is not intended by ANET (in ALL regions). Therefor they have TOS.
If you split up compliant and non-compliant, you know in advance people go around and use the non compliant.

Now that’s an accurate summary, short of some of the nuances expressed by the meter’s author and Cleary about how this situation came to be.

You somehow extended that to say that the users of BGDM were at risk (which was the opposite of what Cleary said in the posts you read).

Nemesis.2019:

Welcome to the new meta, one of the reasons i quit doing high level fractals, game used to be so friendly….

That’s one of the reasons I stopped playing WoW, when “performing” in a Raid become a chore instead of fun. If the Healers and DPS weren’t maxing in the top five they were “bumped” to the “B” team… or cut altogether.

It always seemed to me that GW2’s community was a better class of players who understood that a game is to have fun. I hope ANet finds a way to block these DPS meters.

Cleary said also: “Now that we have set the bar and tool creators know what is acceptable, we are hoping that tool creators will make adjustments to their tools to make them compliant with our requirements and more accessible to a wider audience.
We will give our community plenty of time to make this adjustment before considering any action directly against tools or players that use them.”

From the moment a non compliant version is available of a tool, the tool itself is burned. I doubt ANET will ask afterwards if you were a good boy and used the compliant one.