Guild Wars 2

I’ve often wondered at the mind set that says ‘we must complete this in the fastest time possible or GTFO’. I’m here to relax and enjoy my all too short gaming time- which is why I don’t have the time or inclination these days to design and explore optimum builds/rotations and rush through content. It’s a game, not a job- unless you’re playing wvw for the backpack, in which case it’s a full time job each week!

Zenith’s argument just shows how badly designed the game is- that the only realistic way of winning is to blast through as fast as possible before the mob/boss or whatever has a chance to use it’s skills- because those skills do way too much damage that you can’t heal. What a terrible design.

If the game didn’t have stupid timers and bosses which stupidly huge damage attacks and a proper trinity people would be able to run raids in several different ways and still get through in a reasonable time. They could easily design a ‘blow back’ on bosses so they reflect damage over a certain amount per second- but instead they nerf eles in all parts of the game to deal with static target damage.

One other thought- not all of us have perfect memories nor run fractals or even dungeons that often, so bear that in mind before you start shouting at guy that forgot to kill that spare elite mob to the left.

CptAurellian.9537:

STIHL.2489:

Now, In all my time, I never saw a ‘goof around’ or “test” build running in anything above T1

Go pugging T4 fractals for a while and tell me what you’ve seen. There’s literally everything around there – longbow rangers (has that ever been more than a bearbow joke?) and guards, staff guards, pure shortbow thieves, staff necros, all those greatsword mesmers and I don’t know what else. I don’t need a dps meter to tell me that they are bad, but I don’t want to know what remains hidden behind seemingly reasonable gear choices. When I do as much damage as the other four combined (yes, I’ve seen that happen), a lot of things are wrong.

What’s wrong with LB ranger?
They’re good against bosses that move all over the place or Scarlet.
The known power ranger rotation is LB , Sword+ axe.
The traits for power ranger has been buffed too.

So you’re denying the entire existence of power ranger in general huh…
Saying people are bad just because they didn’t run the top dps condition raid builds for fractal, this is the mind-set of people who use dps meter.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

STIHL.2489:

Considering that it takes full ascended to get enough AR to even have a chance to run T4 (or amazing twitch skill for some fractals), I have no idea how you attract people who put that kind of investment into what would be a poorly done builds. Might be an issue among your social circles to be able to waste that kind of resources on flavor and test builds.

It is not that impressive now. They added a lot of different and easy ways to get ascended gear and AR in the last few months. It is not that rare to meet someone with 150 AR and have absolutely no idea how fractals work.

That’s a pity.. maybe they should make the infusions account bound, to fix that little problem.

Also.. why would anyone want a high Agony, if they are not serious about Fractals?

TheRandomGuy.7246:

It is not that impressive now. They added a lot of different and easy ways to get ascended gear and AR in the last few months. It is not that rare to meet someone with 150 AR and have absolutely no idea how fractals work.

Or in the case of what i ran into yesterday, people stockpiling tears of alba to make up for their inadequate AR and causing groups to suffer because they are in over their head and have no idea how to properly handle fractals.

But 150 AR isn’t some amazing feat, or even difficult. It takes some minor dedication to playing through the content that ironically gives you all you need to progress, yet the general playerbase just wants to skip to the end.

CptAurellian.9537:

STIHL.2489:

Now, In all my time, I never saw a ‘goof around’ or “test” build running in anything above T1

Go pugging T4 fractals for a while and tell me what you’ve seen.

I don’t do T4 fractals, my only fractal ready character is an old school Shout Guard (before elite spec) and I just never had the urge to go though the effort it would take to rebuild into whatever the new meta is, it rocked solid in T2/T3 but when I tried to do T4, it felt lacking. Happens I guess when you put a lot of time into something and don’t feel the urge to re-build them.

I’ll stick with what I got however, if that means I remain stuck at T2/T3.. then I guess that is where I’ll stop, I seemed to be having the most fun there anyway, as I never felt the need to use DPS meters or go into have rage fits about what the person next to me playing, or worried about if a fractal took us 40 min as opposed 20.

To each their own, if DPS meters, raging about builds, and watching the clock like you are getting paid by the job works for you.. then I guess rock on (without me tho)

Assuming there are still “allowed” DPS meters (which seems like a safe assumption), how about a toggle when you make an LFG group? It would say, “DPS meter in use.” That way, anyone who likes them could join, and those who dislike like them could opt not to.

I’m going to assume people will say, “No!” to that suggestion. Why? Because I believe the real issue is that people want to be able to jump into any group that happens to be forming when they look at LFG. Impatience and entitlement are the real issues, and they occur on both sides of the divide, whether it’s someone joining a requirement listed/metered group or someone joining a casual run group and kicking the group starter because his DPS is sub-par.

That’s the real issue, not meters. Good luck getting people to drop the idea that their personal convenience trumps everything else. However, this would be a better game and a better community if we do.

Zenith.7301:

No. There is no outlasting PvE mobs with 10 times your HP that autoattack you for 7-10k damage with defensive gear.

You wear defensive gear, you screw the group over by allowing those mobs to last longer and melt.

This game is not a trinity game. You don’t get higher healing per second to counter the sustained damage of mobs.

It’s why you maximize DPS. So you kill them in the span oc cc and blinds before you run out of them.

Selfish kittens who don’t care about helping the group because they want to play how they want should go play open world and spare people the insult of having to struggle to carry them and making their usual fractal of 15 minutes take 10-15 minutes extra.

This is not WoW where you with your 20 sec cd heal skill can outheal all the incoming damage indefinitely.

PvE veteran mobs on higher fractals will win the outlast game 100% of the time.

Toughness and vitality are useless when the best forms of mitigation are blinds, CC and killing mobs quickly while they’re disabled.

The difference with your toughness gear is you take 20-25% less damage but do half the damage in return because you give up way more offense than what you gain defensively.

Congrats, the mob that could 2-shot you now 3-shot you on toughness gear and you now take 1.5x as long to kill it.

Already said wasn’t going into gear discussion since that’s a different discussion. As far as needing a meter to build/run a group. Still not seeing it here. You already know what you want in your group so you get your guild group to agree to that else if you pug you advertise for it upfront when you create your group. If joining a pug group and you don’t like someone else’s build, you have the right to leave and find another. Have done that before, works fine, its not worth getting into a bother over it. Its a game even if we all probably spend too much time in it.

Dextra.8162:

No, healing is fine. Anyone with a brain will notice you’re healing and leave you be, assuming you are a good healer. But if you’re coming in T4’s with your longbow sword/dagger valk armor and claiming you’re dps? That’s when there is a major problem.

Just like Chrono is fine as well.

Both low dps, but you contribute by buffing and support.

Just worth noting while providing the normal quickness/alac as a chrono, I actually got told to change builds due to low dps. Some people understand how to read meters other people simply look at the DPS number and decide from there.

Or say:

Casual T4’s, 2hr run YAY.

Dextra.8162:

Or say:

Casual T4’s, 2hr run YAY.

The attitude here is what people don’t like.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Assuming there are still “allowed” DPS meters (which seems like a safe assumption), how about a toggle when you make an LFG group? It would say, “DPS meter in use.” That way, anyone who likes them could join, and those who dislike like them could opt not to.

I’m going to assume people will say, “No!” to that suggestion.

I love this Idea, I mean at first I wanted to put in some kind of hard gear check for raids like AR provides for fractals, that way people would have needed to invest in their gear and character to progress, but, as irony would have it, it was the hardcore players that cried NO to that one. Yes the same people that are now using DPS meters did not want to put in a hard gear check in the raid. How’s that for irony.

Anyway moving on.

I love this idea !

Have a toggle on the LFG panel that all DPS/All gear will be open for inspection by anyone, (perhaps a Green OPEN and a red CLOSE) toggle for the LFG panel regarding gear inspection, so, everyone can see who has what gear and build, like a Limited Hero panel type of inspection, where we can see just their equipment and traits by clicking their name, and their Overall DPS clicks in a Number next to their name, both a flat number and their percent of overall damage to the Raid Mob.

I think it would be a great addition to the game, not only would it help elitist be more elitist, which, we might as well at this point, Guild mates and friends could have private groups, inspect each others gear in real time and offer advice on how to improve, what to get, etc. So it could be a useful tool for both being a snobby elitist and a friendly vet.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Assuming there are still “allowed” DPS meters (which seems like a safe assumption), how about a toggle when you make an LFG group? It would say, “DPS meter in use.” That way, anyone who likes them could join, and those who dislike like them could opt not to.

Actually this is a great idea.

I doubt it would stop people from using them in non-meter flaged groups (even as it is people don’t read the group description they just click join), and obviously issues could still arise, but it’s a step in the right direction.

Overall an opt in or out system is the best option

IndigoSundown.5419:

Assuming there are still “allowed” DPS meters (which seems like a safe assumption), how about a toggle when you make an LFG group? It would say, “DPS meter in use.” That way, anyone who likes them could join, and those who dislike like them could opt not to.

I’m going to assume people will say, “No!” to that suggestion. Why? Because I believe the real issue is that people want to be able to jump into any group that happens to be forming when they look at LFG. Impatience and entitlement are the real issues, and they occur on both sides of the divide, whether it’s someone joining a requirement listed/metered group or someone joining a casual run group and kicking the group starter because his DPS is sub-par.

That’s the real issue, not meters. Good luck getting people to drop the idea that their personal convenience trumps everything else. However, this would be a better game and a better community if we do.

I am not certain why people don’t put more into their group description if they have issues with others. No reason your idea wouldn’t work today with just dropping that in the text. Forewarned goes a long way and anyone joining that group should know what to expect. Never been big on people joining a group and then expecting everyone else to change for them, if you are looking for that, create your own or once again go with like minded guildies. 5 guilds…..don’t saddle yourself with 100% rep papertigers or yell at pugs find a raid/fractal/dungeon guild or make one and you will be happier.

TheGrimm.5624:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Assuming there are still “allowed” DPS meters (which seems like a safe assumption), how about a toggle when you make an LFG group? It would say, “DPS meter in use.” That way, anyone who likes them could join, and those who dislike like them could opt not to.

I’m going to assume people will say, “No!” to that suggestion. Why? Because I believe the real issue is that people want to be able to jump into any group that happens to be forming when they look at LFG. Impatience and entitlement are the real issues, and they occur on both sides of the divide, whether it’s someone joining a requirement listed/metered group or someone joining a casual run group and kicking the group starter because his DPS is sub-par.

That’s the real issue, not meters. Good luck getting people to drop the idea that their personal convenience trumps everything else. However, this would be a better game and a better community if we do.

I am not certain why people don’t put more into their group description if they have issues with others. No reason your idea wouldn’t work today with just dropping that in the text. Forewarned goes a long way and anyone joining that group should know what to expect. Never been big on people joining a group and then expecting everyone else to change for them, if you are looking for that, create your own or once again go with like minded guildies. 5 guilds…..don’t saddle yourself with 100% rep papertigers or yell at pugs find a raid/fractal/dungeon guild or make one and you will be happier.

Because no one reads LFG descriptions. It’s not uncommon to put in “80s exp” on a dungeon LFG and get a lvl 50 who has never done it before.

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Because no one reads LFG descriptions. It’s not uncommon to put in “80s exp” on a dungeon LFG and get a lvl 50 who has never done it before.

Yeah, but again, if they joined your group and didn’t read what you put in there, that’s on them and a different story. Putting words in the OP’s mouth so they will have to forgive me for making assumptions, but I think this thread would be different if it started with joined a group that said it was doing gear checks and using a DPS meter and then they kicked me for not having certain gear.

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Because no one reads LFG descriptions. It’s not uncommon to put in “80s exp” on a dungeon LFG and get a lvl 50 who has never done it before.

Or maybe a fresh Lv50 doesn’t know all this abbreviated lingo? If someone can’t be bothered to type in a few extra letters to say “Level 80, experienced only”, he deserves to have his time wasted with false positives.

..and then there are those who still don’t read descriptions. I can at least offer my sympathy there. >.>

Much the same, people should be willing to make their groups with meter requirements and be open about it. It’s not hard to type “ArcDPS required” or “No meters!”

TheGrimm.5624:

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Because no one reads LFG descriptions. It’s not uncommon to put in “80s exp” on a dungeon LFG and get a lvl 50 who has never done it before.

Yeah, but again, if they joined your group and didn’t read what you put in there, that’s on them and a different story. Putting words in the OP’s mouth so they will have to forgive me for making assumptions, but I think this thread would be different if it started with joined a group that said it was doing gear checks and using a DPS meter and then they kicked me for not having certain gear.

Completely agree. I’m just pointing out that using the LFG description really is no fix at all.

Rauderi.8706:

Much the same, people should be willing to make their groups with meter requirements and be open about it. It’s not hard to type “ArcDPS required” or “No meters!”

The thing is sometimes you don’t care about meters and only use them if you smell something isn’t right. Notice what the OP said: “they confirm using dps meter.” Maybe they already noticed that his dps was really low, it’s not hard to see if you are experienced, and used the meter solely to confirm it before kicking him, so it wasn’t a false positive. Better be safe than kick without “Evidence”?

Of course they could’ve just been silly people. We don’t know exactly what happened, due to the lack of information, but I see many jump to blame the meter without knowing what actually happened.

Well, let’s ask the people who don’t run the unofficially approved builds:

Is it acceptable if the group kicks people (perhaps you) who don’t meet the requirements stated in the LFG? For example, if it reads, “80s xp” and someone joins at L50 — do we agree that it’s ok to kick them without explanation?

Likewise, if the description is “T4 fracts, all welcome”, is it acceptable to kick those who call people out for poor DPS?

In other words, shouldn’t it be up to the group organizers to decide on the requirements and those joining an established party/squad should respect that?

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Aenaos.8160:

Support for BGDM is not being terminated,it will stay compatible with the game.
I wouldn’t use ARC since it is not TOS compliant,and it gives Anet the right to ban you for using it if they choose so.

.
The BGDM developer quit the game, if he can’t find a successor BGDM will die.

this is a very real fact that next month BGDM will die . which the BGDM developer posted on reddit about that and the fact he gave up the game . and is never coming back

now if that would only happen with ARC too . the game would be far more better with out them both . [/quote]

He didn’t quit, he got banned because he repeatedly refused requests by Anet to remove the portions of BGDM functions that were against the TOS, even after they asked to work with him so it could be done without compromising the functionality of the addon.

Rauderi.8706:

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Because no one reads LFG descriptions. It’s not uncommon to put in “80s exp” on a dungeon LFG and get a lvl 50 who has never done it before.

Or maybe a fresh Lv50 doesn’t know all this abbreviated lingo? If someone can’t be bothered to type in a few extra letters to say “Level 80, experienced only”, he deserves to have his time wasted with false positives.

..and then there are those who still don’t read descriptions. I can at least offer my sympathy there. >.>

Much the same, people should be willing to make their groups with meter requirements and be open about it. It’s not hard to type “ArcDPS required” or “No meters!”

Yeah, never see the description saying: “T4 fractal highest dps condition raid build with dps meter only”, probably knowing it’d take forever for the team to form.

Astro Bear.6305:

Aomine.5012:

CptAurellian.9537:

STIHL.2489:

Now, In all my time, I never saw a ‘goof around’ or “test” build running in anything above T1

Go pugging T4 fractals for a while and tell me what you’ve seen. There’s literally everything around there – longbow rangers (has that ever been more than a bearbow joke?) and guards, staff guards, pure shortbow thieves, staff necros, all those greatsword mesmers and I don’t know what else. I don’t need a dps meter to tell me that they are bad, but I don’t want to know what remains hidden behind seemingly reasonable gear choices. When I do as much damage as the other four combined (yes, I’ve seen that happen), a lot of things are wrong.

What’s wrong with LB ranger?
They’re good against bosses that move all over the place or Scarlet.
The known power ranger rotation is LB , Sword+ axe.
The traits for power ranger has been buffed too.

So you’re denying the entire existence of power ranger in general huh…
Saying people are bad just because they didn’t run the top dps condition build for raids, this is the mind-set of people who use dps meter.

Holy kitten you’re trolling right? Look let me break it down for you:

I don’t care what people play in open world, low level fractals or even dungeons (with maybe the exception of Arah paths) If you are in T4 fracs. Play a real kitten build. Don’t bring your special snowflake longbow ranger, condi greatsword mesmer, only main hand dagger thief, or what other dumb build you put together with your little imagination. T4 is pre-raid content. Build like it. The meta is there for a reason. It makes for successful runs and clean runs. DPS meters are in place to show that you’re doing what you need to do. If you don’t like it. Stay out of high level fractals with pugs. If your friends don’t care that you play your 3k dps longbow ranger and want to carry you then fine. More power to them. But don’t get upset when some people actually playing real builds doing actual damage kick you when you show up with that garbage. The whole set of T4 dailies should only take around 30-40 mins depending on what they are that day. Not over an hour. People got things to do. I may sound elitist, but I’m just being real. I don’t expect people to be 30k dps but I expect you to try. /endrant

Soo…. your opinion trumps the player who may be good at what you despise…. that matters only? Exact elitism that made me quit Fractals and never stepped foot in a raid. I refuse…say it again REFUSE to play a “meta” build. These builds are suggestions and I try to improve on them for my own play.

I don’t want to beat down on a mob with a meta build for 10 seconds when I can switch things up, stay alive and down it in 3. That is the ultimate goal. So when you see one of these “builds” you do not like you may very well rejecting a great DPS player because YOU don’t like it.

It has only gotten worse with the allowance of DPS meters.

Astro Bear.6305:

Aomine.5012:

CptAurellian.9537:

STIHL.2489:

Now, In all my time, I never saw a ‘goof around’ or “test” build running in anything above T1

Go pugging T4 fractals for a while and tell me what you’ve seen. There’s literally everything around there – longbow rangers (has that ever been more than a bearbow joke?) and guards, staff guards, pure shortbow thieves, staff necros, all those greatsword mesmers and I don’t know what else. I don’t need a dps meter to tell me that they are bad, but I don’t want to know what remains hidden behind seemingly reasonable gear choices. When I do as much damage as the other four combined (yes, I’ve seen that happen), a lot of things are wrong.

What’s wrong with LB ranger?
They’re good against bosses that move all over the place or Scarlet.
The known power ranger rotation is LB , Sword+ axe.
The traits for power ranger has been buffed too.

So you’re denying the entire existence of power ranger in general huh…
Saying people are bad just because they didn’t run the top dps condition build for raids, this is the mind-set of people who use dps meter.

Holy kitten you’re trolling right? Look let me break it down for you:

I don’t care what people play in open world, low level fractals or even dungeons (with maybe the exception of Arah paths) If you are in T4 fracs. Play a real kitten build. Don’t bring your special snowflake longbow ranger, condi greatsword mesmer, only main hand dagger thief, or what other dumb build you put together with your little imagination. T4 is pre-raid content. Build like it. The meta is there for a reason. It makes for successful runs and clean runs. DPS meters are in place to show that you’re doing what you need to do. If you don’t like it. Stay out of high level fractals with pugs. If your friends don’t care that you play your 3k dps longbow ranger and want to carry you then fine. More power to them. But don’t get upset when some people actually playing real builds doing actual damage kick you when you show up with that garbage. The whole set of T4 dailies should only take around 30-40 mins depending on what they are that day. Not over an hour. People got things to do. I may sound elitist, but I’m just being real. I don’t expect people to be 30k dps but I expect you to try. /endrant

Wow. Why don’t I break it down for you for a second.

The meta is there for a reason.

That reason is laziness.

T4 is pre-raid content. Build like it.

No, that’s not how it works.

If you don’t like it. Stay out of high level fractals with pugs.

You do not get to dictate or speak for the attitudes of all high-level fractal pugs.

don’t get upset when some people actually playing real builds doing actual damage kick you

Your build is no more “real” for being meta-bullkitten than anyone else’s is.

I’m just being real

You’re being a real something alright.

Your head appears to be somewhat lodged inside your kitten. I suggest you remove it. Your point of view may be drastically improved.

Rashagar.8349:

Wow. Why don’t I break it down for you for a second.

The meta is there for a reason.

That reason is laziness.

T4 is pre-raid content. Build like it.

No, that’s not how it works.

If you don’t like it. Stay out of high level fractals with pugs.

You do not get to dictate or speak for the attitudes of all high-level fractal pugs.

don’t get upset when some people actually playing real builds doing actual damage kick you

Your build is no more “real” for being meta-bullkitten than anyone else’s is.

I’m just being real

You’re being a real something alright.

Your head appears to be somewhat lodged inside your kitten. I suggest you remove it. Your point of view may be drastically improved.

Ahahahaha, love it! Well my head might be up my kitten but at least I’m not dragging down every fractal group in T4 with kitten poor dps. I’ve noticed only the 3k DPS club boys cry about elitism and how content is hard ect, ect, ect.

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

You can purchase as much AR as you like on the TP.

edit: they also might have been referring to “personal fractal level 50” rather than L80 for the character.

Also, I have got to ask all the people with their DPS meters and some such, why don’t you just build static groups?

Not trying to be rude in any way, but, lets be honest with ourselves here, if you are that unhappy pugging, then maybe pugging is not for you.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

You can purchase as much AR as you like on the TP.

Ok.. Well, Wow, in the off chance this was not a total troll response, as far as I know, Agony Resist infusions can only be slotted it into Ascended Gear which is ML 80 (might be ML79 on some pieces).

So, I’ll ask you again.. how exactly does a level 50, get enough AR to enter a T4 fractal?

STIHL.2489:

Also, I have got to ask all the people with their DPS meters and some such, why don’t you just build static groups?

Not trying to be rude in any way, but, lets be honest with ourselves here, if you are that unhappy pugging, then maybe pugging is not for you.

Some do, but alot of people will just join the group finish the run and move on. PuG success stories are not often shared, even the mediocre mid speed runs that do clear are not often remembered. It’s the really bad ones that make people want to spot check others.

I do the same thing, if it’s a good run I rarely even think to add people for future runs xD

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

You can purchase as much AR as you like on the TP.

Ok.. Well, Wow, in the off chance this was not a total troll response, as far as I know, Agony Resist infusions can only be slotted it into Ascended Gear which is ML 80 (might be ML79 on some pieces).

So, I’ll ask you again.. how exactly does a level 50, get enough AR to enter a T4 fractal?

On the off chance that you’re not trolling, as I added above, “L50” might have been referring to personal fractal level. (There are also more than a few exotics that will take infusions.)

Besides, you don’t need any AR to enter a fractal. There are only a tiny number of spots where agony can’t be avoided (and some people are good enough at footwork to avoid all the others).

no need for any dps meter there is a golem to test it on to see all that

Stephen.1207:

no need for any dps meter there is a golem to test it on to see all that

Which is a benchmark done at perfect conditions.

Golem is good to see the potential of a class or build but its not so good to see if your build is performing good in an actual raid. For this you need to go into the raid and use that build and for this you need a dps meter.

Remember the Ele-Time? Where people just flocked to ele to get DPS even if the ele was doing really bad? The DPS-Meter opened the eyes to many people that most eles are far from doing even mediocre damage and the “Ele= equals god tier dps” perception got a massive hit.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

You can purchase as much AR as you like on the TP.

Ok.. Well, Wow, in the off chance this was not a total troll response, as far as I know, Agony Resist infusions can only be slotted it into Ascended Gear which is ML 80 (might be ML79 on some pieces).

So, I’ll ask you again.. how exactly does a level 50, get enough AR to enter a T4 fractal?

On the off chance that you’re not trolling, as I added above, “L50” might have been referring to personal fractal level. (There are also more than a few exotics that will take infusions.)

Besides, you don’t need any AR to enter a fractal. There are only a tiny number of spots where agony can’t be avoided (and some people are good enough at footwork to avoid all the others).

If someone is at Fractal level 50, would have the common sense by that point to know what the abbreviations mean in the LFG panel , so that makes no sense.

Lets get real, anyone who has the twitch to dance agony in a T4 fractal with what amounts to No AR, could out strip any elitist with a meta toon.. because.. kitten they are serious pro.

Also, Exotics are also level 80 (I believe 76 might be the ML, or some such)

Astro Bear.6305:

Rashagar.8349:

Wow. Why don’t I break it down for you for a second.

The meta is there for a reason.

That reason is laziness.

T4 is pre-raid content. Build like it.

No, that’s not how it works.

If you don’t like it. Stay out of high level fractals with pugs.

You do not get to dictate or speak for the attitudes of all high-level fractal pugs.

don’t get upset when some people actually playing real builds doing actual damage kick you

Your build is no more “real” for being meta-bullkitten than anyone else’s is.

I’m just being real

You’re being a real something alright.

Your head appears to be somewhat lodged inside your kitten. I suggest you remove it. Your point of view may be drastically improved.

Ahahahaha, love it! Well my head might be up my kitten but at least I’m not dragging down every fractal group in T4 with kitten poor dps. I’ve noticed only the 3k DPS club boys cry about elitism and how content is hard ect, ect, ect.

Funnily enough, I’ve noticed that only the “goes full glass but can’t kill things fast enough to avoid dying so blames everyone else for their death instead of actually getting good enough to survive a glassy spec” crowd are the ones who cry about wanting dps checks =P

Stephen.1207:

no need for any dps meter there is a golem to test it on to see all that

Golems are a terrible metric to go by. You need to see your dps on actual bosses. There is no boss in the game that just sits in one place doing absolutely nothing while you beat on it. The dps there is not really realistic for most normal players.

Substatic.6958:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Every MMO in history has gone down the same path and there are always people claiming it’s needed to ensure they can do the most difficult content etc. and that only certain people abuse it. All rubbish as every MMO in history has proven out, it’s a tool used that propagate elitism and it absolutely has far more negative effects than positive.

It’s a shame we’re already back to elitism vs. playability and enjoyment. It’s the same old song and dance that happened after HoT dropped.
This is a subculture

It’s worse in GW2 though since GW2’s dps balance is actually really bad compared to other games. For most classes if you haven’t farmed full vipers or do not like DoT play-styles, good luck.

I have at least one character of every profession. Which ones do you think are failing and have you opened tickets about them being unbalanced or wanting?

For me dps meters were a bliss as i wanted something to see how i am performing and there is no other way, here or in any other game. It is first and foremost a tool to measure performance, especially personnal. Thats why i always loved bgdm, accurate af and i dont have to see what other people are doing at that time as im not interested in that.

People kicking others cause of dps meters isnt the tool’s fault but the player’s who use it. U can blame them for using it that way but that’s where the line is drawn. Looking at gear and build isnt possible atm as the illegal client of arcdps has long been dropped from their site and i unavailable.

Players kicked others from groups even b4 meters existed,now they just have a tool to somehow “justify it”. In the end it boils down to the expectations of the group u join.

If u join an experience group with requirements and play like kitten then YES are prolly gonna be kicked.
If u join a casual group with the “all welcome” message then by all means feel free to play w/e u want how u want. It is fairly ez to find a group that suits you these days, as fractal lfg is packed with all kinds of groups.

Tongku.5326:

Makuragee.3058:

So today I have been kicked out of a fractal party cause my dps was not maked out, they confirm using dps meter. So now people can use dps meter? So arenanet you change your mind? Can I ask a refund of my entire account cause I clearly remember back a couple year ago dps meter was illegal and thats was one of the reason I started playing this game. To avoid kittens players. If I recall the user agreement speak of this? Did anet change the user agreement without notice or I miss something?

the game is trying to become more WoW clone like I guess. complete with add-ons, 2nd jobs (raiding job after you come home from work), toxicity, hamster wheel gear tiers etc. etc.

I would really like the CEO of A-Net to come and comment on the general game direction, specifically the degredation of its original vision and how it was marketed and sold.

They messed up so many things and alienated the fanbase with Hot. And also Dugeons died for this.

Necrum Davengers.3519:

Tongku.5326:

Makuragee.3058:

So today I have been kicked out of a fractal party cause my dps was not maked out, they confirm using dps meter. So now people can use dps meter? So arenanet you change your mind? Can I ask a refund of my entire account cause I clearly remember back a couple year ago dps meter was illegal and thats was one of the reason I started playing this game. To avoid kittens players. If I recall the user agreement speak of this? Did anet change the user agreement without notice or I miss something?

the game is trying to become more WoW clone like I guess. complete with add-ons, 2nd jobs (raiding job after you come home from work), toxicity, hamster wheel gear tiers etc. etc.

I would really like the CEO of A-Net to come and comment on the general game direction, specifically the degredation of its original vision and how it was marketed and sold.

They messed up so many things and alienated the fanbase with Hot. And also Dugeons died for this.

This. They do not need to do anything that will alienate more customers. I cannot get any of the people I know to play MMOs anymore so unless they want an exponential loss in customers they need to address stuff like this.

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

You can purchase as much AR as you like on the TP.

Ok.. Well, Wow, in the off chance this was not a total troll response, as far as I know, Agony Resist infusions can only be slotted it into Ascended Gear which is ML 80 (might be ML79 on some pieces).

So, I’ll ask you again.. how exactly does a level 50, get enough AR to enter a T4 fractal?

On the off chance that you’re not trolling, as I added above, “L50” might have been referring to personal fractal level. (There are also more than a few exotics that will take infusions.)

Besides, you don’t need any AR to enter a fractal. There are only a tiny number of spots where agony can’t be avoided (and some people are good enough at footwork to avoid all the others).

If someone is at Fractal level 50, would have the common sense by that point to know what the abbreviations mean in the LFG panel , so that makes no sense.

Lets get real, anyone who has the twitch to dance agony in a T4 fractal with what amounts to No AR, could out strip any elitist with a meta toon.. because.. kitten they are serious pro.

Also, Exotics are also level 80 (I believe 76 might be the ML, or some such)

I’m not altogether clear on your point now. Do you claim that everyone reads the LFG? Do you claim that people who do always respect the requirements?

The issue raised was that someone looking for an experienced group got people who were demonstrably inexperienced or otherwise not ready to do T4 dailies. You’re still quibbling about the details, rather than accepting that people organizing for challenging group content sometimes (even often) get people who aren’t prepared.

I asked above and I’ll ask again:

• If you join a group that’s asking for experience (or whatever), is it okay for the leader to /kick those who don’t have it?
• If you join a group that is “all welcome”, is it okay for the leader to /kick those who demonstrate they are looking only for an experienced group (e.g. they complain about folks with low DPS)?

It seems to me that using a DPS meter makes it easier for experienced people to find and group with other experienced people. And it also makes it easier for the inexperienced and those who don’t care to avoid folks focused on DPS. Regardless of the other pros/cons, that seems like a good thing for everyone.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

You can purchase as much AR as you like on the TP.

Ok.. Well, Wow, in the off chance this was not a total troll response, as far as I know, Agony Resist infusions can only be slotted it into Ascended Gear which is ML 80 (might be ML79 on some pieces).

So, I’ll ask you again.. how exactly does a level 50, get enough AR to enter a T4 fractal?

On the off chance that you’re not trolling, as I added above, “L50” might have been referring to personal fractal level. (There are also more than a few exotics that will take infusions.)

Besides, you don’t need any AR to enter a fractal. There are only a tiny number of spots where agony can’t be avoided (and some people are good enough at footwork to avoid all the others).

If someone is at Fractal level 50, would have the common sense by that point to know what the abbreviations mean in the LFG panel , so that makes no sense.

Lets get real, anyone who has the twitch to dance agony in a T4 fractal with what amounts to No AR, could out strip any elitist with a meta toon.. because.. kitten they are serious pro.

Also, Exotics are also level 80 (I believe 76 might be the ML, or some such)

I’m not altogether clear on your point now. Do you claim that everyone reads the LFG? Do you claim that people who do always respect the requirements?

The issue raised was that someone looking for an experienced group got people who were demonstrably inexperienced or otherwise not ready to do T4 dailies. You’re still quibbling about the details, rather than accepting that people organizing for challenging group content sometimes (even often) get people who aren’t prepared.

I asked above and I’ll ask again:

• If you join a group that’s asking for experience (or whatever), is it okay for the leader to /kick those who don’t have it?
• If you join a group that is “all welcome”, is it okay for the leader to /kick those who demonstrate they are looking only for an experienced group (e.g. they complain about folks with low DPS)?

It seems to me that using a DPS meter makes it easier for experienced people to find and group with other experienced people. And it also makes it easier for the inexperienced and those who don’t care to avoid folks focused on DPS. Regardless of the other pros/cons, that seems like a good thing for everyone.

Except experience or not doesn’t mean much in the eye of people who use dps meter.
You can play a power build and be experienced cuz you did it countless times, and people who use cond dps spec will still shame you for not running the highest condition dps class, that they’re “carrying you” cuz they’re doing maybe 3~5k more dps than you on immobile foes.

If people don’t have dps meter, they’d be happy to clear the instance and move on instead of kittenting people not doing enough damage and save their precious 5~10 mins.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

You can purchase as much AR as you like on the TP.

Ok.. Well, Wow, in the off chance this was not a total troll response, as far as I know, Agony Resist infusions can only be slotted it into Ascended Gear which is ML 80 (might be ML79 on some pieces).

So, I’ll ask you again.. how exactly does a level 50, get enough AR to enter a T4 fractal?

On the off chance that you’re not trolling, as I added above, “L50” might have been referring to personal fractal level. (There are also more than a few exotics that will take infusions.)

Besides, you don’t need any AR to enter a fractal. There are only a tiny number of spots where agony can’t be avoided (and some people are good enough at footwork to avoid all the others).

If someone is at Fractal level 50, would have the common sense by that point to know what the abbreviations mean in the LFG panel , so that makes no sense.

Lets get real, anyone who has the twitch to dance agony in a T4 fractal with what amounts to No AR, could out strip any elitist with a meta toon.. because.. kitten they are serious pro.

Also, Exotics are also level 80 (I believe 76 might be the ML, or some such)

I’m not altogether clear on your point now. Do you claim that everyone reads the LFG? Do you claim that people who do always respect the requirements?

The issue raised was that someone looking for an experienced group got people who were demonstrably inexperienced or otherwise not ready to do T4 dailies. You’re still quibbling about the details, rather than accepting that people organizing for challenging group content sometimes (even often) get people who aren’t prepared.

I asked above and I’ll ask again:

• If you join a group that’s asking for experience (or whatever), is it okay for the leader to /kick those who don’t have it?
• If you join a group that is “all welcome”, is it okay for the leader to /kick those who demonstrate they are looking only for an experienced group (e.g. they complain about folks with low DPS)?

It seems to me that using a DPS meter makes it easier for experienced people to find and group with other experienced people. And it also makes it easier for the inexperienced and those who don’t care to avoid folks focused on DPS. Regardless of the other pros/cons, that seems like a good thing for everyone.

My point, is that the hard gear requirement just to get enough AR to do fractals weans out the clueless players, as such, all these Elite Zerg players claiming to get plagued by noobs for T4 fractals, reeks of being a myth, a fable if you will, more then any real event, all said to justify their own elitism.

If you want to be an Elitist, just own it, don’t go blaming anyone else for your attitude, and if you are so plagued by “noobs” on your T4 fractal runs that you feel the need for 3rd party software to DPS check them, then, its time to face facts that Pugging is not for you. Find a Guild of like minded players and stick to static Fractal runs.

GreyWolf.8670:

Necrum Davengers.3519:

Tongku.5326:

Makuragee.3058:

So today I have been kicked out of a fractal party cause my dps was not maked out, they confirm using dps meter. So now people can use dps meter? So arenanet you change your mind? Can I ask a refund of my entire account cause I clearly remember back a couple year ago dps meter was illegal and thats was one of the reason I started playing this game. To avoid kittens players. If I recall the user agreement speak of this? Did anet change the user agreement without notice or I miss something?

the game is trying to become more WoW clone like I guess. complete with add-ons, 2nd jobs (raiding job after you come home from work), toxicity, hamster wheel gear tiers etc. etc.

I would really like the CEO of A-Net to come and comment on the general game direction, specifically the degredation of its original vision and how it was marketed and sold.

They messed up so many things and alienated the fanbase with Hot. And also Dugeons died for this.

This. They do not need to do anything that will alienate more customers. I cannot get any of the people I know to play MMOs anymore so unless they want an exponential loss in customers they need to address stuff like this.

and demonstrable false.

Dungeons didn’t die. They are still every bit as lucrative as they were pre-HoT. They are even faster to run now than they used to be due to power creep and allow for most players to run whatever they want.

Sadly the people who this would be useful for don’t want to do said content for whatever ill perceived notion of it being bad money cause SW exist.

Ive been seeing alot of “t4 dailies Exp only pots/food” and im like the kitten its T4 its not that hard the CM stuff i understand but regular T4 im not wasting food on that. i just open up my own party allowing everyone so long as they have the AR and at least the defense potion. the ony thing i get mad about in T4 is in nightmare when one person doesnt know how to CC even when told that where i draw the line.

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

You can purchase as much AR as you like on the TP.

Ok.. Well, Wow, in the off chance this was not a total troll response, as far as I know, Agony Resist infusions can only be slotted it into Ascended Gear which is ML 80 (might be ML79 on some pieces).

So, I’ll ask you again.. how exactly does a level 50, get enough AR to enter a T4 fractal?

On the off chance that you’re not trolling, as I added above, “L50” might have been referring to personal fractal level. (There are also more than a few exotics that will take infusions.)

Besides, you don’t need any AR to enter a fractal. There are only a tiny number of spots where agony can’t be avoided (and some people are good enough at footwork to avoid all the others).

If someone is at Fractal level 50, would have the common sense by that point to know what the abbreviations mean in the LFG panel , so that makes no sense.

Lets get real, anyone who has the twitch to dance agony in a T4 fractal with what amounts to No AR, could out strip any elitist with a meta toon.. because.. kitten they are serious pro.

Also, Exotics are also level 80 (I believe 76 might be the ML, or some such)

I’m not altogether clear on your point now. Do you claim that everyone reads the LFG? Do you claim that people who do always respect the requirements?

The issue raised was that someone looking for an experienced group got people who were demonstrably inexperienced or otherwise not ready to do T4 dailies. You’re still quibbling about the details, rather than accepting that people organizing for challenging group content sometimes (even often) get people who aren’t prepared.

I asked above and I’ll ask again:

• If you join a group that’s asking for experience (or whatever), is it okay for the leader to /kick those who don’t have it?
• If you join a group that is “all welcome”, is it okay for the leader to /kick those who demonstrate they are looking only for an experienced group (e.g. they complain about folks with low DPS)?

It seems to me that using a DPS meter makes it easier for experienced people to find and group with other experienced people. And it also makes it easier for the inexperienced and those who don’t care to avoid folks focused on DPS. Regardless of the other pros/cons, that seems like a good thing for everyone.

My point, is that the hard gear requirement just to get enough AR to do fractals weans out the clueless players, as such, all these Elite Zerg players claiming to get plagued by noobs for T4 fractals, reeks of being a myth, a fable if you will, more then any real event, all said to justify their own elitism.

If you want to be an Elitist, just own it, don’t go blaming anyone else for your attitude, and if you are so plagued by “noobs” on your T4 fractal runs that you feel the need for 3rd party software to DPS check them, then, its time to face facts that Pugging is not for you. Find a Guild of like minded players and stick to static Fractal runs.

Dude, calm down. I don’t use a DPS meter. I don’t kick people from my groups. I’m not sure why you take umbrage whenever someone disagrees with you, so much so that you aren’t even reading what they write.

I’m asking if there are any situations in which you (or others) agree that it’s okay to kick someone from a group. Are there? Or do you think that people who use LFG should have to stick with whoever shows up, regardless of compatibility?

I don’t have a stake in your answer. It’s an honest question so I can better understand how other people see cooperative gaming, which I hope will make me a better team player.

My biggest concern with DPS meters is that I’ll end up marked for my mistakes.

DPS meters are not tools to reward good performance. They only exist to punish bad performance. The issue is, bad days happen. Sometimes I can’t get my skills off, and my performance will sink because of reasons both within and out of my control. On good days, I am not going to be rewarded for doing everything right. I am expected to do everything right as the norm. But on a bad day? I’ll be facing the threat of being kicked + blocked. That connection is severed forever because of bad luck. This is what is meant by DPS meters making a toxic environment: you are never rewarded, only punished. This kind of environment is why companies create automatic reward programs for their low end workers; to counteract the issue where only failures are noticeable.

The thing about self improvement is that you really don’t need a DPS meter for it. Common sense applied to your skills and traits is enough to produce a working damage rotation, and competent play is enough to ensure success. I’ve tried out my own rotations on the DPS golem and seen what works, and when in combat I can usually tell whether I’m doing good damage or not just by evaluating my own performance. If I continually blast my enemies with all my high damage skills then I’m doing good DPS, and if I can’t then I’m not.

ArcanistSeven.8720:

Ive been seeing alot of “t4 dailies Exp only pots/food” and im like the kitten its T4 its not that hard the CM stuff i understand but regular T4 im not wasting food on that. i just open up my own party allowing everyone so long as they have the AR and at least the defense potion. the ony thing i get mad about in T4 is in nightmare when one person doesnt know how to CC even when told that where i draw the line.

The rewards fror a T4 daily run are so good, it’s worth to “waste” a few silver on that. Plate of Truffle Steak costs 25 silver for 30 minutes, and by the time it runs out you are either already done or in the lowest T4 daily fractal. You get more than 20 gold cash for the run, ascended shinies and infusions and other stuff not included. You are saving at the wrong end.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I’m asking if there are any situations in which you (or others) agree that it’s okay to kick someone from a group. Are there? Or do you think that people who use LFG should have to stick with whoever shows up, regardless of compatibility?

There is almost never a need to kick someone because most people can communicate more or less well. When we put up an LFG because we need 2 more people, we might ask for Warrior PS and Healer Druid. It can happen that two Druids join, simply because both clicked on it at the same time. We ask both if they can switch to another character. If none of them wants or can, we ask the player who joined last to leave because two healers makes no sense. It never was a problem so far. If someone really refused to leave after the explanation, of course we would kick. If we get a bad apple, let’s say, a healer who doesn’t heal, we just carry and write it off as bad luck (happened yesterday). Everybody can adjust to a bad healer by switching traits/skills and food/consumables. It makes the run less smooth though. Once we had a case where we all wiped except the healer, and he didn’t /gg but kept kiting the boss. We asked him to reset and if he plans to heal the boss to death but we got no reaction. Boss was at 25% and it would have taken the healer probably 30 minutes to finish him. We watched this for about 3 minutes before we kicked him. Then he messaged each of us and called us noobs.

Yes, there are cases where kicking is ok, but it’s more about behaviour than skill. You only need 3 people to do a fractal anyway, but it’s a lot more fun without carrying.

Meta is the way to play content the fastest and as such a remnant of speedruns.

In any content not governed by Time mechanics (e.g. Timers , smaller circles) meta only provides acces to builds able to faster completion of the content.

This is useful in farms where turnaround an completion equals cash. In some content speed allows kills before dmg mounts (Old dungeon DPS meta)

Meta exists for every part of gw2: Dungeons,fractals,raids,wvw,gvg,pvp and specific tasks, such as heal, dp’s, dot, bunkers, roamers, zergers, support, and more.

In general Meta seems to be used by the zelf proclaimed elite To be DPS/dot meta. And it shows limited knowledge and understanding. DPSMeta is a little risky due To increased chances of wipes, which remove the speed advantage.

Meta is nog inherently bad, neither is personal builds, but meta seems to draw soms elitism.

Due to the nature of dp’s meta, and the fact It’s calculated, dp’s meters can be used To see the Knowledgedge of the player with regard to rotations… In groups advertising meta any non meta build will likely underperform…. And elitists will kick especially when meta was advertised. Incase of not following the lfg It’s your own fault if you get kicked,in other cases bad player attitude.

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

If you go back and read where I mentioned lol 50, it was within the context of a dungeon LFG. My point had nothing to do with fracs and everything to do with the average reading comprehension on the LFG tool.

Well I was looking around for a DPS meter and I foud BGDM but recently read that the author will close down his servers for reasons.

So what more allowed DPS meters are there? (Links would help)