Guild Wars 2

And thats just awesome, cause i currently have only 3 days a week that i can really play (farm). And after just an hour of farming in orr i am getting screwed with DR… :@
How is that fair? Dusk is on the kitten TP for 150gold! Do you want me to buy gold from the bots or something? Cause i am sure as hell not spending my money on gems unless they go down in price, allot.

You get rid of bots by making gems so cheap that its no longer worth for them to bot. Now you are just screwing your playerbase.

I am rather annoyed and bored with this game right now, witch is really ashame, its been a great start, but after getting a full t3 cultural gear set, and doing world completion, now what am i supposed to do?
Dont like pvp, cant play wvw cause obviously you dont like my amd cpu, wont do dungeons cause i keep getting the permanent dr bug, cant even dream of affording a legendary… :@

So now what?

/rant over

I’d suggest just walking away like most people already have.
NO, that’s not me insulting GW2 ~ it’s just common sense.

IE: View the B2P GW2 as nothing more than a console game purchase.

In a few weeks/months, there maybe more “fun” content to come back to? well, that or maybe they’ll fix combat and DE’s to be more than simple spam fests?

So just move on and keep an eye out on GW2’s future developments.

If it’s worth coming back too.. awesome! ~ If not, then just like skyrim.. hopefully ya got your monies worth from the box price.

The pro-DR crowd will come in and say that legendaries are optional and that you dont really need unique skins. However, what is there to do in this game other than grind cash for skins or grind dungeons for tokens? You can PVP sure, but not everyone is good at the. WvW has ques and a number of other issues dependent on your world choice.

It is like any way of trying to earn money has been nerfed to theground in this game.

I really do wonder why the whole player base has to be punished for a few bots, surely there are better ways of banning them.

Hmm Same bots in the same places for weeks. Reported 100s of times.

Anet uses a system to stop these bots (also kills anyway to make money for anyone else)

Same Bots are still there. We must still need the DR system.

Btw, we do have a cash shop if you don’t want to spend what little playtime you may have farming aimlessly for diminished rewards.

Meanwhile..same bots…still there. Its..almost..like….Anet….profits..off the bots….more than…the bots do. Hmm.

Meanwhile the regular players get hurt because of farmers as well.

“… I am rather annoyed and bored with this game right now, witch is really ashame, its been a great start, but after getting a full t3 cultural gear set, and doing world completion, now what am i supposed to do?”

I get your point. Here’s a thought, If you have a full set of TIre 3 cultural armor at this point you are in a small percentage of players, very small (those who could shell out 120g for it). The fact that you have this already is likely the result of broken systems ArenaNet has been working to fix.

Perhaps chill for a while, go play another MMO (If you can find one as entertaining) come back in a month or so.

Sam how is it a broken system? If he wants to grind gold all day then so be it. I know this might be a new concept to you but games are meant to be PLAYED ANY WAY A PLAYER SEE"S FIT. This isn’t China there shouldn’t be anyone dictating how you should play!

Sam, i have a full t3 gear set because my 3 week Vacation started right after game release and i had allot of time to kill.

I would like to know if this system (DR) was in the game during beat, or has it been added since?

It’s an awful idea to try and limit your playerbase on how they play the game. I can see player numbers dropping if this stance continues.

Guy with no job or gf bugs his parents until they buy GW2 for him.

Guy spends 20 hrs a day farming. In 2 weeks has five legendary weapons, kewlest armor in the game, etc. Shows off to other players.

Guy who has a job and a social life gets jealous because he only just got to level 80. Spends $500 on gems so he can buy legendary weapons from jobless guy on TP.

Arenanet profits. Nope, DR doesn’t help them, it’s in their best financial interest to have people running around convincing other people to buy gems to make up for lack of playing time. It’s a design philosophy issue that they don’t WANT people spending 20 hrs a day farming just so they can show off their kewl lewt. It’s about enjoying the journey, not taking shortcuts to the end.

I am more afraid of the mental effect of this change, than the actual effect it has in-game.
Players don’t like to be limited in their options, if they weren’t before!
Even if this change effects far less people than it is rumoured to, it will still avalanche through the public opinion…

A very dangerous decision, just when the novelty of the game wears of, and ‘that other MMO’ launched an expansion where many GW2 players have playd too.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

“… I am rather annoyed and bored with this game right now, witch is really ashame, its been a great start, but after getting a full t3 cultural gear set, and doing world completion, now what am i supposed to do?”

I get your point. Here’s a thought, If you have a full set of TIre 3 cultural armor at this point you are in a small percentage of players, very small (those who could shell out 120g for it). The fact that you have this already is likely the result of broken systems ArenaNet has been working to fix.

Perhaps chill for a while, go play another MMO (If you can find one as entertaining) come back in a month or so.

No what is broken is the 120g pricetag.
Personally, I farmed enough gold recently to get myself Dawn. But alot of the gold came from before teh DR patch. At this present time, prices on rare items like legendary precursors, high-tier mystic forge recipes and even any unique exotic skin are rising while access to any method of obtaining gold (be it 1-to-1 mob farming or in a DE) is slowly diminishing.

They are trying to extend content and inturn, extend the amount of time they believe people will spend on the game. At this present moment, it is not working and it just screams the need for change. If you want an example, look a tthe recent token fix for dungeons. Anet had always stuck to their design model for dungeons, despite the high grind ratio, that was against what they had previously stated.

The point is that the recent buff to tokens from dungeons came with it an admission that, to be blunt, the player base was right and that the dungeons were a grind. They obviously had enough data to conclude that the playerbase did not find dungeons in ANY WAY rewarding, apart from the majestic speed runs.

The point of the matter is that change has happened and it can happen again. Dont alienate your fanbase anet because you want to prolong the lifecycle of this game. Features like a DR will not help this game in the present, and it will not help the game in the long run when new players can potentially join. There must be a better way to combat bots, I believe you wanted to innovate the MMO industry? I believe you wanted to stand out up above the rest?

Well the matter stands that you are innovating in including a DR system, but it just isnt rubbing the right way with a part of your fanbase.

@tol I got a full set of exotic armor/jewelry before DR was in place and it was a huge grind. If I were a new player today and tried to get exotics I would just give up on the game.

I’ve already said this, but it’s been tried before – a DR system. Probably to the destruction not just of a game, but an entire franchise – Final Fantasy.

Their DR foray and reluctance to take it out caused such a stink in normally placid Japan that it’s done lasting damage to their brand over there and internationally.

SE’s stock took a severe tumble and is still struggling to recover. Why? Mainly corporate greed. It’s what drives all of these nasty new “ideas” we’re seeing become commonplace in the MMO world.

With FF it resulted with the lead developer getting fired and he was replaced and the replacement was allowed to pick a new dev team.

My main point is, you cannot punish players who have more time than others and those that want to farm something, legitimately for long periods of time.

It’ll end really really badly.

I’m not making this up, I’ve seen it happen first hand.

Fanbois are going to shout “But DR was in GW1 too!” stop lying to yourself. It wasn’t to this extent and did not cover every facet of the game.

This is a punitive measure that has done absolutely nothing to alleviate the bot problem whatsoever.

It’s moved the bots to other places, like DEs where they now make it impossible for the regular player to get a tag on mobs.

The only thing I can really do now, that involves skill, allows me to get loot and is fun is fighting mobs alone. I’m moved on constantly.

No you can’t do this! No you can’t play here anymore. Go away! No you’ve got to much of this. No you’ve got too much of that! Leave that type of mob alone!

No, too much, cannot, stop. This is not the tone you want to treat your legitimate player base with or they will say exactly that….

No more, this game is too much, I cannot understand why they did this. I guess I’ll have to stop now.

The laziness and lack of willing to properly address and arrest the bot problem will end up being this game’s demise. It’s obvious ANEt uses DR as it’s cheap and can be rolled out really easily. It must have had no fore-thought what-so-ever.

I really like the game. I really really hate DR. You could keep every bot in for me and take DR out and that would make me happy. Even with a shoddy economy I’m not being chided at every turn.

Bots I can live with, they’re not telling me how to play the game.

The potential botting they should have seen from before the start, you know they will come and try.

Now if A’net wanted to use DR as a measure against bots, it would have gone down a lot better if it was here from the start.
People would not have held back to try the game because of some note mentioning this DR system.

Implementing it now, however, is giving the wrong signal to the players.
As I said: it’s less about the actula effect in-game than it is about the general perception of the playerbase suddenly being limited.

I keep repeating this: but when only a month old, and many issues becoming more clear, many ‘promises’ not being fullfilled fully, while the competition planned their exapansion around your timetable… it is a very dangerous time to kitten of your playerbase, rightfully or not.

Kimbald no one likes DR before or after the game launch. I will bet a $100 the reason they didn’t put DR in beta is because they would have sold half as many copies if they were lucky.

Putting it in 2 weeks after launch was a slap in the players face! Mean while the botter’s laugh at Anet and multiply by the day!

Soulwatcher.2604:

Kimbald no one likes DR before or after the game launch. I will bet a $100 the reason they didn’t put DR in beta is because they would have sold half as many copies if they were lucky.

Putting it in 2 weeks after launch was a slap in the players face! Mean while the botter’s laugh at Anet and multiply by the day!

you might be right, I couldn’t know for sure about any real numbers of course.
But I do know that selling a few less copies at launch would be less bad than having a playerbase uproar after a month.
These things are about the general perception far more than the actual change.

GW2 has a lot of work to do to live up to it’s promises, from bugs over downscaling not scaling down enough, over looting, over pvp balance and all of that.
You’ll be able to fill that list far bette than i can as a new player.

Having all these issues after a few weeks is inevitable. Every MMO faces that moment when the smoke clears, the novelty wears of, and the complaining really takes of.
My whole point about WoW was just that: WoW is NOT the better game, but they sure picked the perfect moment to launch MoP. It’s not like they didn’t see the storm in GW2 coming… it always comes, in any new MMO.

So my real question about Anet is: what makes them think they have a strong enough playerbase yet to survive such a controversial decision?
A non-subscription fee game is the easiest to leave, especially when that other game has an expansion out… It’s not having much financial effect (we all bought GW2 obviously) but it could result in a massive draining of the servers.
And mind you: as a new leveling player I can guarantee you that servers are already empty enough to take out the fun of leveling in zones full of npc’s and DE’s but hardly any players around. I’m already sick of dying amongst many npc’s without much help.

How many GW2 buyers aren’t leveling panda’s at the moment?
This isn’t a fanboy question, I think GW2 is potentially the better game. But as a real question: how many are?

Nerva I cant wait until you try and get exotic, then we will see who has the last laugh!

Soulwatcher.2604:

@tol I got a full set of exotic armor/jewelry before DR was in place and it was a huge grind. If I were a new player today and tried to get exotics I would just give up on the game.

This is funny, because I have full exotic armour and jewellery which I obtained without grinding. Actually, most of it obtained with gold I made through explorations in the high level zones and selling the loot/crafting resources I found along the way.

Guess grinding isn’t the only way to get stuff.

Kimbald.2697:

GW2 can not survive if all the wowplayers would leave for good.

Guild Wars survived well enough, it still is as a matter of fact.

Personally I don’t care what games you play or played. The type I don’t like are the MMORPG jumpers; these guys are usually “WoW veterans” with three second attention spans whom are “sick of WoW” and jump to every new release MMO for a month, then complain on forums that it’s not good enough (usually because it’s not enough like WoW) and then repeat the cycle ad infinitum. The ones around here often complain about the lack of mounts, seven dozen equipped skills and keep calling Ranger “Hunter”… but I’m getting a bit off topic here.

Kimbald Anet has yet to establish a player base. Everyone and their brother buy new games to check them out. Keeping them is a whole different story. Slapping players in the face is not a good way to build your player base!

Varyag Guild Wars 1 was a whole different animal. Funny how I see Guild Wars 1 players making daily posts/threads about how much this game sucks and Anet is a sell out. That mean’s there as unhappy as the rest of us. Time will tell how many players stick around after the 90 day mark!

@nerva @geemo

I’ve spent 4-5 hours on the forum today and it’s infinitely more fun than the actual game.

Go back to MoP? I’ve never played WoW in my life. From the little I’ve seen about it and know about it, it’s distinctly more intricate and complicated than this game currently is.

What’s skillful about just rushing DEs with hundreds of bots? That’s not fun in any way whatsoever.

Dungeons are a novelty, but it really quickly wears off.

WvWvW is just a massive zerg rush. You can employ finesse to it, if you’re in a group of dedicated people, but I’m sorry I’m not waiting for up to 2 hours to have these experiences. Just no. No way.

1-80 in 4 days? What’s with that insanely short learning curve anyway?

There’s one thing I can do that allows me to empoy skill, which is solo everything I can. Very often I want to stay in the same area to do this (for many reasons) and ANet says… “No, no, no. Can’t do. Bad player. Are you a bot? We think you’re a bot. Stop being naughty!”

What utter rubbish.

Yeah sure, get a blanket anti-farm measure as it’ll get rid of all the bots. Except it hasn’t. They’re still here, they’re increasing, they’re sending more in-game mails, except now with copper attached to it, like some kind of blackmail measure. Bots infest all the Orr areas and specifically the Cursed Shore area and mess up the DEs for every one else. It has not helped in any way.

If I go anywhere it’ll be back to EVE. Thankfully that’s still going. That’ll be my choice and I’ll choose to leave here and the forums when I’m ready. Mainly if there’s no sign of improvement here, which you’re making it very obvious will continue to be the case. Nice.

From what you’re all saying, it’s all a bed of roses and needs no alteration, so I’ll just leave shortly. I’m an not in the minority. I am in the majority from reading the forums. Not to mention the fact that most people will just leave and not bother telling anyone. It’s only a small reflection of what people feel. If anything, the problem is larger than it seems.

I’m never going to play a game that punishes me for legitimately extracting a particular resource from the game ad-infinitum, if that’s what I want to do, as long as I stay with in the T&Cs.

This is just a game mechanic that we know nothing about that punishes us for wanting to play the game a particular way.

It’ll never last. No way.

Kimbald.2697:

As a sidenote:

I can’t understand the attitude of GW2 being for people who are ‘better than WoW’.
Can’t you guys see that both games are fishing in the same pool here?

GW2 can not survive if all the wowplayers would leave for good.
How many MMO players do you think there are to fill these games up?

Ha, people used to think that before WoW came out – they thought the MMO market was saturated. WoW proved that to be hugely wrong.

These days, it’s not worth developers’ time trying to muscle in on WoW players. Sure, some will come and it’s great if they do, but really developers have to try to reach out to new players, with mechanics that are less stuck in old ways, and more appealing to the average gamer.

Just like Blizzard did.

In 2 weeks WoW players will be saying the same thing about MoP,if you play a game for 100 hours a week you will see and do it all.

Paying 60 bucks for 100 hours of entertainment is a good deal.

Soulwatcher.2604:

Varyag Guild Wars 1 was a whole different animal.

True, but it survived fine without WoW players and “the sky is falling” MMORPG jumpers.

Soulwatcher.2604:

Funny how I see Guild Wars 1 players making daily posts/threads about how much this game sucks and Anet is a sell out.

Actually, I’d say Anet have made the only MMORPG since Guild Wars 1 that was actually worth paying for.

can someone explain what DR is. please, im lost.

I’m just going to drop the note here that the reason dusk and dawn etc prices are rising has little to do with DR.

More people are hitting 80, more people are starting their legendary weapon hunt.

You can attempt to make your own weapon using the forge to attempt to make the precursor, by throwing rare-mystic weapons in there all of the same type.

I only played GW during my time in WoW, but I’ve seen a lot of friends in WoW try out other games. And really trying them out, very often without intending to quit WoW for it.
They were often disappointed, but never because it wasn’t WoW, mostly because it wasn’t good enough, or not what it was promoted to be.
I have always played with rather mature people in WoW I must say (regardless of age) but that is simply because you tend to join up with relaxed players not taking things to serious

But even when a lot of the wowplayers are what you describe (and many of course are) than you still can’t deny the numbers.
Basically every MMO game is counting on those wowplayers to be succesfull. There are many in GW2 who don’t like or play WoW, but there must be many more who do…

I’m not here advocating WoW in any way. But it is a popular game (unseen before) that just ‘happens’ to have an expansion out as we speak.
When MoP gets old a bit, when the complaints there start, when those peomises seem only half fullfilled, GW2 suddenly will see many returns as well.
This does work both ways.

So for or against DR system, which remains our topic, I think it’s very risky to take such a decision just now.
Don’t forget GW2 has many many issues that are popping up everywhere. A lot of people seem disappointed, even if they’re not the majority we can still notice it’s a common trend on the forums.

Varyag.3751:

Soulwatcher.2604:

Varyag Guild Wars 1 was a whole different animal.

True, but it survived fine without WoW players and “the sky is falling” MMORPG jumpers.

Soulwatcher.2604:

Funny how I see Guild Wars 1 players making daily posts/threads about how much this game sucks and Anet is a sell out.

Actually, I’d say Anet have made the only MMORPG since Guild Wars 1 that was actually worth paying for.

I agree the game was very fun before DR. Being punished for the way I want to play the game is not fun.

DR is diminishing returns. Basically, after you’ve been in one area killing the same mobs for a long (actually a pretty kitten short) length of time, your rewards for killing those mobs dries up. They want you to move on and do something else.
In most areas that’s not a major issue, you can just find something else to slap about. In places like Orr though, that’s a pretty big problem since you have Risen and…er that’s about it. Play there for a a while and you get no drops.

Well this won’t likely make me quit but this DR thing is putting a damper on the way I like to play. I’m not a farmer in terms of wanting to make gold. I like to craft. For me it’s fun to have several characters on the go at once and keep their crafting professions leveling up at the same rate to provide every one with gear. I don’t care about making things to sell and likely lose money doing this but I find coordinating and the aquiring of mats to be fun. I get a kick out of the process.

Doing all the professions at once takes a lot of mats. My usual pattern of play is to do some story and quests and then just have the profession that I enjoy playing that day do some farming for whatever I need while watching some tv. It’s my relaxation.

This DR thing is making doing this more difficult especially since I don’t know exactly how it works and sit there wondering if I’ve hit the DR, have lousy RNG or have got some bug.

I most likely won’t quit over it. I’m trying to adapt and figure out a system that mirrors my idea of ‘fun’ in this game. It’s just added some annoyance which isn’t so much fun. It’s the unknown that’s the most bothersome.

I can understand the reasons why they stuck it in. I get it. I just wanted to give an example of a way of playing which I think is completely legitimate that it affects negatively. Hopefully there will be some adjustments with this sort of feedback.

This whole game is one big huge gold sink. I dont find it a coincidence that people are able to buy gems from them to trade for gold. Along with their refusal to help players who have been affected by their badly coded items, this looks like a ship about to sink. They are riding the high of release mania, just like SWTOR devs did before it went south on them really fast. If you had told me a month ago that this would happen, I would have laughed in your face, but the reality of it is pretty ugly at this time.

same here, im already pretty much done with guild wars, now just waiting for any good updates. games boring as kitten and they made it even worse with the whole DR thing

Diminishing returns hurts bots more that it hurts you.

The diminishing returns are really easy to avoid too. Rather that standing in one place farming the same mob over and over again. Move.

Any thing your trying to farm there are multiple mobs in multiple locations that drop said items. All you have to do is go to those various locations and farm them.

Diminishing returns ALSO keep the market from being flooded with resources thereby making them have some actual virtual value. Since resources have virtual value that means your copper, silver and gold have virtual value too.

And what you cant farm you can buy from others that are willing to sell. Its called an in-game ….economy.

Bots are killing it for me more than DR (which I don’t encounter often). It’s gotten to the point where I just can’t make gold by farming because Selling bloods and other dropped mats at such low prices just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Meanwhile the same 8 bots I’ve been reporting for two weeks are farming away in G-fields—porting from mob to mob and killing the market—along with a couple thousand other bots across the servers.

How many times do I have to report a bot to get it banned? For how many weeks?

I’d love to post the names and videos here so you can see for yourselves, but that’d just get me banned. Great system you’ve got going here.

DR is a system. Understand the system and work with it or around it. People are just generally impatient and entitled these days.

I am not against having expectations but there is a little word called reasonable.

You don’t need to buy a sword for 150g and if you do feel you need it, you can work the system or take a little longer to get it. People don’t seem to get that you don’t need stuff like that to play this game. Sure, you may want it, but that’s not the same. And you don’t have to be able to get it within a week either.

The DR system was not the most elegant solution. I agree with that. But on the other hand, you can do a lot with rotating events to counter the effects of DR and I don’t think that Anet has to cater to people who spend 5 hours a day doing the same thing over and over again. Bots do that. You wanna be a bot, that’s your choice but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work around the system. It simply takes not being a bot.

A little intelligence and some patience can go a long way. Soon enough you’ll have your legendary sword…barey a month or two after release…then what?

Gehenna.3625:

DR is a system. Understand the system and work with it or around it. People are just generally impatient and entitled these days.

I am not against having expectations but there is a little word called reasonable.

You don’t need to buy a sword for 150g and if you do feel you need it, you can work the system or take a little longer to get it. People don’t seem to get that you don’t need stuff like that to play this game. Sure, you may want it, but that’s not the same. And you don’t have to be able to get it within a week either.

The DR system was not the most elegant solution. I agree with that. But on the other hand, you can do a lot with rotating events to counter the effects of DR and I don’t think that Anet has to cater to people who spend 5 hours a day doing the same thing over and over again. Bots do that. You wanna be a bot, that’s your choice but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work around the system. It simply takes not being a bot.

A little intelligence and some patience can go a long way. Soon enough you’ll have your legendary sword…barey a month or two after release…then what?

Forcing players to play the way you want them to play is a sure fire way to be on the outside looking in. Just ask SE how good FFXIV is doing and the same can be said about D3 and Star Wars. Why developers like to kill off their player base I will never know!

To many people, want and need are the same thing. There’s a shiny new sword that you can only get by killing the Green Spotted Bandersnitch that spawns once a month? It’s stats are exactly the same as the weapon a beginning Weaponsmith can craft but it glows blue and shoots off black sparks when it hits something? Some people will obsess about it so much that they will camp the spawn point for the next 3.5 weeks, sleeping in shifts with their buddies so that someone is always watching for the spawn, until they get that chance. Then heaven help the random guy who wanders along and kills the Bandersnitch before they can get it!

Gehenna.3625:

DR is a system. Understand the system and work with it or around it. People are just generally impatient and entitled these days.

I am not against having expectations but there is a little word called reasonable.

You don’t need to buy a sword for 150g and if you do feel you need it, you can work the system or take a little longer to get it. People don’t seem to get that you don’t need stuff like that to play this game. Sure, you may want it, but that’s not the same. And you don’t have to be able to get it within a week either.

The DR system was not the most elegant solution. I agree with that. But on the other hand, you can do a lot with rotating events to counter the effects of DR and I don’t think that Anet has to cater to people who spend 5 hours a day doing the same thing over and over again. Bots do that. You wanna be a bot, that’s your choice but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work around the system. It simply takes not being a bot.

A little intelligence and some patience can go a long way. Soon enough you’ll have your legendary sword…barey a month or two after release…then what?

Your inference that if we don’t like the DR we’re not intelligent is quite bizarre. It doesn’t even have anything to do with patience either. It’s just a really badly thought out idea. There’s no escaping that.

So because it’s a system I have to live with it do I? Ridiculous. I don’t and I won’t. I’ll try to get my money back if they won’t take it out.

The official line they gave was that it’s an anti-bot or anti-RMT measure.

Are you seriously telling me there’s no RMT or Gold Farmer out there who doesn’t know what the DR is and will avoid it? Of course they do. Except now they’re spilling into other areas and content in the game. I see them in DEs. A lot. If you don’t then you’re not in the right areas.

Spam messages and mail are increasing, players in mid-range areas and around DEs are decreasing.

The bottom line is it has made no alteration to the fact bots are still working and plying their trade. They’re just doing it in different ways.

If the official line isn’t to curtail bots, but there’s this altruisitc view from ANet about how we should all play the game the way they dictate us to, well you can keep your game, give me a full refund and I’ll book my ticket out of here right away.

Keep DR in and be prepared to lose the majority of your player base. As Soul said, it’s been tried before and there’s lots of instances I could cite where it destroys games and much bigger titles than GW2.

If it’s in for keeping bots curtailed and it’s not even slightly doing that there’s no reason to maintain it.

There’s plenty of legitimate reasons why you’d want to stay in one area or even kill one type of mob over and over. We shouldn’t have to explain why.

Even a small bit of reading on these very forums will clearly show you the general consensus is that DR is a very bad idea.

The longer it stays in the more cancerous and damaging it’s going to become.

“But give them more time, they’re tweaking it, they’re playing with ideas.”

The concept of botting isn’t a surprise, the game wasn’t in development for a week, it was in development for years, it had an alpha and a beta phase.

A knee-jerk reaction by placing a blanket effect that doesn’t restrict the bots, but restricts the players is shocking.

It’s lazy, cheap and not even doing what it’s supposed to.

Apart from that I’m totally fine with it.

Soulwatcher.2604:

Forcing players to play the way you want them to play is a sure fire way to be on the outside looking in. Just ask SE how good FFXIV is doing and the same can be said about D3 and Star Wars. Why developers like to kill off their player base I will never know!

There is no such things as true freedom. Anything that is programmed means there are borders. They just changed them and they are easy to circumvent at that.

FF was just a dragon of a game from the start. D3 sold millions of copies just the same and all the hate doesn’t change that. My view on D3 is that it’s not the bugs but the content that failed the game. It’s just boring and SWTOR is a game I played from launch till last month. There were still bugs from the start after 8 months, their fixing rate is slower and the content was way too one sided. I was leaving as it was, even if GW2 hadn’t been there. I did all I wanted there. Characters are being deleted randomly, their TP doesn’t work after the last patch as we speak. That game has been out since December.

So no, I don’t think GW2 falls in that catergory.

And back about the why….The reason they do things like this is because the alternative is worse. That’s actually what you don’t get. Of course, with any decision, any change, you will lose some players because someone, somewhere will not be happy with it. Sometimes, sad as it may be, things need to change to improve the game, knowing that some people will leave because of it. Arenanet cannot win. That’s just a reality for anyone, not just for them.

DR would not be my weapon of choice here but if you can’t deal with a system that restricts rewards from grinding your kitten off, then this really isn’t the game for you. People like the OP are so well trained in endgame gear progression that they haven’t woken up and realised it’s not needed here. Exotic gear is easy enough to get and good enough to play any dungeon, event or what not. The rest is something that can take time, because even if you do think you need it, I really don’t see any argument that says you must be able to do it within two weeks grinding the same spot over and over again…no matter how much you like doing that.

Just look at all the complaints about botting and you will see that a lot of people are worried about that.

Ronin.8095:

Your inference that if we don’t like the DR we’re not intelligent is quite bizarre. It doesn’t even have anything to do with patience either. It’s just a really badly thought out idea. There’s no escaping that.

I said that it takes just a little intelligence to work around it. I am not saying that people are stupid, I am just saying that using intelligence just a little is enough. So my point is that we all can do this.

It’s more difficult to program that. It will not stop bots but any measure that makes it harder is fine by me. Admittedly other measures might’ve been prefered by myself but I do get the reasoning behind it.

Ronin.8095:

So because it’s a system I have to live with it do I? Ridiculous. I don’t and I won’t. I’ll try to get my money back if they won’t take it out.

Oh dear, a rebel without a cause…. There was a system already and you had to play by it before. It just changed. The whole frigging game is a system. You gonna sue them for that?

Ronin.8095:

The longer it stays in the more cancerous and damaging it’s going to become.

See, comments like this are ridiculous. Why? Because it’s an exaggeration. One big part of the GW2 marketing has always been that this game isn’t about grind. This is perfectly in line with that. Want another example? Dungeons give better token rewards but doesn’t reward doing the same dungeon 10 times a day.

If you were looking for a game that was about grinding yourself silly, I do wonder how you could’ve missed all those articles and reviews about GW2 for the past 2 years or so.

Create a system that works, stop putting systems that doesn’t work, builded up quickly, and affecting all players.
I can’t be more than 10min killing the same mob, I can’t do a dungeon under 30min, I can’t… Man I just wanna play the game the way I want, but with this Dungeons, that doesn’t let me join parties in my own server, not even enter them, or even with other friends on other servers. Tokens don’t stack, old items most of them either like the obsidian shard. 15 tokens when I finish an instance after 2 days, 10min killing mobs I get no drop…

I can’t take it anymore :/

@Gehenna

You haven’t said anything that’s factual. It’s all either speculation or assumption.

Here’s a fact.

DR isn’t easing the bot problem. It’s getting worse. It does not make it harder for them in any way.

They’re increasing. I already said this. If you can’t see the evidence of an increasing bot population then you’re not playing the game.

Now there’s a copper attached to my spam mails. Oh and I had 7 spam mails in the past 3 days compared to 3 all last week.

All it is doing is affecting peole who are trying to play the game legitimately. Again your insistence that it only affects people who exhibit the properties of a bot is not true.

I don’t have the time to collate all the forum posts that corroborate this, but they’re there if you wanted to look for them.

I never said I wanted to grind myself silly. I’d definitely appreciate you not putting words in my mouth.

I said if I wanted to grind myself silly, I could. If I wanted to run around the whole of Tyria in just my pants singing “Mustang Sally” I could do that too!

Forcing people to play in a specific playstyle is never a good idea.

You also realise most of the mobs in the Cursed Shore are some variant of a risen with the exception of elementals and event bosses, champs, veterans (and even most of they are risens). DR added to this fact isn’t a logical thing to do.

Anyway, I don’t need you to tell me I have to put up with the DR and just take what you say on face value.

I’ve read the forums, I’d urge you to do the same. You are distincly in the minority. Probably because you’ve managed to convince yourself it’s an OK thing to have. It’s not. It’s quite an unhealthy thing to have.

It’s a really really unpopular facet of the game, that was never in it from the beginning. It was an after-thought. A band-aid. A rubbish rubbish band-aid.

All your talk of 2 years of planning is fine, but I don’t remember any talk of DR in that build up. Do you?

You’re entitled to your opinion and I totally respect that.

I’m entitled to leave and ask for my money back when something as disappointing as diminuishing returns gets implemented in an MMO.

I’ve been in a decent MMO before when it was implemented, it imploded shortly thereafter and the devs, as it was imploding, swore blind that nothing was wrong and everything was fine. They got fired at the end of that month and a new dev team were brought in to try and save the game. It was too late, the irreperable damage had been done by that stage.

It’s not just hot air here. I’ve watched it happen from inside another MMO and the same symptoms are evident here.

Continue to play if you like it. I’m pleased you like it. Genuinely, I am.

I don’t like it and want my money back if this is going to be the status quo. It’s wrong and has no place in MMOs in my opinion.

If they bothered trying to spend money to get rid of the bot problem, it’d be significantly reduced. That is never going to happen.

Gehenna.3625:

Soulwatcher.2604:

Forcing players to play the way you want them to play is a sure fire way to be on the outside looking in. Just ask SE how good FFXIV is doing and the same can be said about D3 and Star Wars. Why developers like to kill off their player base I will never know!

There is no such things as true freedom. Anything that is programmed means there are borders. They just changed them and they are easy to circumvent at that.

FF was just a dragon of a game from the start. D3 sold millions of copies just the same and all the hate doesn’t change that. My view on D3 is that it’s not the bugs but the content that failed the game. It’s just boring and SWTOR is a game I played from launch till last month. There were still bugs from the start after 8 months, their fixing rate is slower and the content was way too one sided. I was leaving as it was, even if GW2 hadn’t been there. I did all I wanted there. Characters are being deleted randomly, their TP doesn’t work after the last patch as we speak. That game has been out since December.

So no, I don’t think GW2 falls in that catergory.

And back about the why….The reason they do things like this is because the alternative is worse. That’s actually what you don’t get. Of course, with any decision, any change, you will lose some players because someone, somewhere will not be happy with it. Sometimes, sad as it may be, things need to change to improve the game, knowing that some people will leave because of it. Arenanet cannot win. That’s just a reality for anyone, not just for them.

DR would not be my weapon of choice here but if you can’t deal with a system that restricts rewards from grinding your kitten off, then this really isn’t the game for you. People like the OP are so well trained in endgame gear progression that they haven’t woken up and realised it’s not needed here. Exotic gear is easy enough to get and good enough to play any dungeon, event or what not. The rest is something that can take time, because even if you do think you need it, I really don’t see any argument that says you must be able to do it within two weeks grinding the same spot over and over again…no matter how much you like doing that.

Just look at all the complaints about botting and you will see that a lot of people are worried about that.

I guess your not familiar with FFXIV that game had a less punishing DR system then GW2. And guess what it tanked harder then the Titanic. Just because people are not coming on the forums and making I quit threads doesn’t mean there not leaving.

Just look at how empty the 1 to 70 zones are that should give you a good indication of how well the game is doing. They are barren and being a month old game they should be packed like sardines.

Gehenna.3625:

DR is a system. Understand the system and work with it or around it. People are just generally impatient and entitled these days.

I am not against having expectations but there is a little word called reasonable.

You don’t need to buy a sword for 150g and if you do feel you need it, you can work the system or take a little longer to get it. People don’t seem to get that you don’t need stuff like that to play this game. Sure, you may want it, but that’s not the same. And you don’t have to be able to get it within a week either.

The DR system was not the most elegant solution. I agree with that. But on the other hand, you can do a lot with rotating events to counter the effects of DR and I don’t think that Anet has to cater to people who spend 5 hours a day doing the same thing over and over again. Bots do that. You wanna be a bot, that’s your choice but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work around the system. It simply takes not being a bot.

A little intelligence and some patience can go a long way. Soon enough you’ll have your legendary sword…barey a month or two after release…then what?

So it is a system that has impacted the effect of bots? Bots are still there and most likely increasing in number, bots that are reported continuously are still there.

And all the while the system punishes its players especially when you have a primary 80 zone filled primarily with one mob type. It takes me 20minutes of soloing or two DE to hit the cap and it does not reset for at least 12 hours. THAT is flawed design. When you factor in how downleveling is just not worth it and bugged …. I still can’t believe people are acting that the game is absolutely perfect.

@Kimhyuna

There are koolaid drinkers in every game. Not saying that people like you and Ronin should give up, but they arent going to acknowledge the problems. Even after the ship has slipped beneath the waves, they will still be praising what a great game it is.

Then they move on to another game and proceed to repeat the same behavior. Such a vicious cycle. What they fail to realize is that by covering up and hiding the flaws, they arent helping to create a better game.

Which is why I never take individuals that tell me to move on to another game seriously and that the belief is that just because a few people are posting problems in the forums that the majority of people in the game are happy.

My guild is a dead heap of chunk, and I believe the 80odd people that don’t log in anymore will come back to the game. I also believe it is not a one off instance. People must also realise that servers are capped off at a number of accounts made rather than players playing. No way is the server brimming with life like in the launch phase.

You’re quite right Kim.

I’ve read around the forums, I’ve seen what people are saying. The whiteknights haven’t.

If you were to see the amount of DR related threads and also the threads about DR that go into detail about how it affects legitimate play, say in a dungeon or on the WvWvW field, it wouldn’t take you very long to realise it’s a seriously unpopular idea that has serious implications.

SE would not take any responsibility for the total mess they’d made of FFXIV. The board at SE made all their devs fall on their swords and hired a new team. That really happened. Not the actually falling on swords bit, but I thought I’d use a nice Japanese-related saying! They genuinely lost their jobs though. It was harsh, but it’s to be expected if you’re going to belligerently ignore your players in such a rude and blatant way.

SE had to switch immediately from a subs model (they weren’t even charging subs in the fear they’d lose everyone) to a F2P for something like 8 months while they grappled with the problem. By the time they’d hired the new dev team and fixed the serious problem, being EXP DR. it was too late. The population had died, never to recover.

Not only that it will have lasting damage on the franchise and will be the last FF titled MMO we’ll ever see, I strongly suspect.

It’s still going, but every NA or EU player I started with does not play anymore.

It’ll be the same here, but rest assured, when it affects money and only money, the DR will be altered. That’s what SE were scared of most.

Forum pressure, even general player backlash and pressure is very ineffectual if we talk to ANet about it.

Talking with your wallet or everyone speaking with their wallet is much much more effective.

The difference here is that ANet have made us all pay upfront. I’m sure they’ve made serious plans with their store earned income, for further investment and business development, when they get hit here, then we’ll see changes.

I doubt anything we ever say will ever make for a policy change in the game.

It’s just not how this industry works. The customer is never right and they know what’s right for the customer.

Until they realise they made a massive mistake and they didn’t actually know what was right for the customer and probably should have listened from the start.

It’s happening here, right now.

lol, people just need to understand that no one here has facts. I don’t either.

Everybody who talks about lots of players or everyone knows is just hiding behind bigger numbers that they invent because actually they just mean themselves.

It’s all opinion here, nothing more. Arenanet hold the numbers. They know how many people play, how many games are sold and how many people aren’t logging in anymore.

Are there servers with population issues? Maybe. I don’t know and the people who complain about it refuse to give details so why believe them?

Is DR so restrictive? Perhaps to some but only if you play a certain way that doesn’t even fit in what this game was advertised.

Can we agree that Anet said this game wasn’t for grinding?

If so, then why complain about not being able to grind like in a korean game?

For the love of whatever, somebody of you complainers should be able to see the irony in this and the point that you are grinding only because you have been so well trained by other games to do this and not because there is any real reason in this game to do so.

There simply is no need to do this. You do it because you have been taught to in other games and if you really like grinding away….yeh, you guessed it, this is not the game for you as Anet have been telling us for a long time…this game isn’t about grind.

Oh and just because you still see bots, doesn’t mean it isn’t working….just a thought. That may just be a rash or even a false conclusion. Consider it.