Dailies and Forced Grouping - Not Fun
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Combo has been removed.
You can revive dead NPCs, so you can do that alone if you wish.
How can dead people force you to hold hands? xD
Pretty much my take on the new dailies. The old ones were in the background and you tended to complete them simply playing the game your way. Maybe a little clean-up around kill variety at the end of the session, but never an issue. I would call reward for gameplay, your gameplay, the ideal for a daily achievement. Why they would move from the ideal is beyond me.
Pretty much my take on the new dailies. The old ones were in the background and you tended to complete them simply playing the game your way. Maybe a little clean-up around kill variety at the end of the session, but never an issue.
Precisely. The dailies were downright perfect, really.
I had hoped they would be changing the monthies to look more like their original daily system, to be honest, to open up more options for monthly completion. Instead, they made dailies even more restrictive and it’s likely that the monthlies will be no better.
I don’t understand this obsession with breaking things that already worked instead of fixing things that have been broken too long.
Remember when our developers talked about “strengthening the core game”?
How’d that work out for us so far?
Now let’s try some ideas that will really work.
How’d that work out for us so far?
Now let’s try some ideas that will really work.
It took me 5 minutes ‘whilst’ completing a single event to get both my combo and rez daily components.
I would call reward for gameplay, your gameplay, the ideal for a daily achievement. Why they would move from the ideal is beyond me.
That’s how the daily achievements still work. The difference being that people complaining right now are those whose gameplay followed the old dailies, while people who are not complaining are those who enjoy the new dailies more.
The entire flaw in the reasoning here is that a player is forced to get dailies each day. That’s the wrong point of view. People should think that they can play normally, and some days the changing dailies will reward their playstyle, despite how in other days it won’t.
So instead of complaining with something like “OMG, I have crafting, please remove crafting from the daily!”, players should think “a crafting daily… I’ll skip this one, but people who craft every day will surely like it. Maybe tomorrow I’ll get my daily”.
Players are not game designers (almost always). Players cannot think outside of what is good for each of them. Players cannot see the forest instead of looking at each individual tree. The current daily system is an improvement over the old one, and it would be foolish of ArenaNet to go back to how it was.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
That’s how the daily achievements still work. The difference being that people complaining right now are those whose gameplay followed the old dailies, while people who are not complaining are those who enjoy the new dailies more.
Erm, you’re going to have to explain that one to me.
Because the original dailies (kill variety, kill count, gathering, and events) were completable by any player with virtually any playstyle, unless all you did was run Orr (and even in that case, you could still get 75% of the requirements without any effort).
The current dailies require that players go to specific locations (underwater kills), perform specific tasks they may not have originally enjoyed doing (crafting), or demand that you set up very specific and controlled scenarios (dodger) in order to complete their dailies.
How is that not “forcing” people to change their playstyles in order to continue finishing their daily achievements?
Remember when our developers talked about “strengthening the core game”?
How’d that work out for us so far?
Now let’s try some ideas that will really work.
How’d that work out for us so far?
Now let’s try some ideas that will really work.
The current dailies require that players go to specific locations (underwater kills), perform specific tasks they may not have originally enjoyed doing (crafting), or demand that you set up very specific and controlled scenarios (dodger) in order to complete their dailies
People are as likely to enjoy crafting as to enjoy gathering. People are as likely to enjoy hunting through maps looking for the variety kills as they are to seek underwater kills. Everyone kills enemies when playing the game, but everyone (who actually tries to play well) dodges enemies too.
More importantly, the diversity is a great thing. The player who liked to craft was never rewarded, while now he is, once in a while. The player who enjoyed gathering was rewarded all the time, while now he still is, once in a while.
How is that not “forcing” people to change their playstyles in order to continue finishing their daily achievements?
You are not “forced” to finish your daily achievements. If there’s a daily achievement that goes against the playstyle you enjoy, you should not do it, not play through content you don’t think is fun. By doing the former, you are losing what – a few laurels – while telling ArenaNet that you don’t like a specific kind of achievement, and hopefully ArenaNet can use this information to improve the game. By doing the latter, you are just grinding.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
Why is encouraging people to change their playstyles a bad thing? Any part of the game should be fair game for a daily requirement. If you don’t want to, or don’t think it’s worth your effort, then don’t do it.
Really, any one part of the daily takes no more than a little bit of time to do.
Dodging took me less than a minute standing in front of a mob in Orr. Crafting took me about 30 seconds, and most of that was getting to a crafting station. Reviving took less than five minutes while I looked for NPCs to revive. Underwater kills took about ten minutes because of the number of kills you had to get.
I don’t think people who are complaining over this understand how silly and entitled they really sound. It’s really making you look bad.
My turret is so much better at this game than I am.
People are as likely to enjoy crafting as to enjoy gathering.
I tend to disagree with this one. My own personal experience has been that many more people enjoy gathering than crafting. I know both crafters and non-crafters that enjoy gathering and do it regularly. Crafters, of course, enjoy crafting. Gathering, however, seems to appeal to a wider range of playstyles in general.
How can dead people force you to hold hands? xD
In some countries you can go to jail for holding a dead persons’ hand. Don’t even think about trying to hug one.
I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming like the people in his car.
Combo has been removed.
You can revive dead NPCs, so you can do that alone if you wish.
It has? Says who?
Combo has been removed.
You can revive dead NPCs, so you can do that alone if you wish.
It has? Says who?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Combo-Killer/page/3#post1311854
Combo has been removed.
You can revive dead NPCs, so you can do that alone if you wish.
It has? Says who?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Combo-Killer/page/3#post1311854
I see, thanks. It’s a shame really. It was easy to do and far more quicker than the old daily achievements.
Why is encouraging people to change their playstyles a bad thing?
I understand what you are saying… but this isn’t about changing playstyle (that I don’t want to change anyway) but it is now a task that now forces me to co-operate when I don’t wish to. I don’t have time to or inclination to do so.
If it stays like this, I will move on… another game perhaps. I don’t do dungeons or fractuals for the same reason. I don’t have time. The mechanic for accumulating a reward of say Karma based armour has now been put outside the realms of the time I am prepared to invest in playing.
To clarify, I am now expected to perform certain tasks that I would rather not do every day rather than achieve them via just playing which I can do each day for 30 minutes.
Why is encouraging people to change their playstyles a bad thing?
I understand what you are saying… but this isn’t about changing playstyle (that I don’t want to change anyway) but it is now a task that now forces me to co-operate when I don’t wish to. I don’t have time to or inclination to do so.
If it stays like this, I will move on… another game perhaps. I don’t do dungeons or fractuals for the same reason. I don’t have time. The mechanic for accumulating a reward of say Karma based armour has now been put outside the realms of the time I am prepared to invest in playing.
To clarify, I am now expected to perform certain tasks that I would rather not do every day rather than achieve them via just playing which I can do each day for 30 minutes.
If you have no will to play with other people what exactly are you doing in a multiplayer game? And this also begs the question of what exactly you do actually do in game that you’re so against playing with other people?
And as some one else pointed out, they removed the combo daily and you can revive npcs. I can think of quite a few places across all level ranges where I could go to revive npcs and get it done easily. And also npc revives also count towards the combat medic title achievement as a side benefit.
All things considered these new dailies are easier to finish than the older one and more interesting to do at the same time.
(edited by fellyn.5083)
Well most of the game is solo, 1 to 80 and there is no need to group.
Events… no need to group.
WvW is usually just zerging, no need to group.
MMO’s cater for about 99% of the time being solo style of play IMHO.
I will log on, have fun doing my own thing and chat to folk… is that such a crime? Is it something that should not be catered for in an MMO. Because it is all I have been doing in playing various MMO’s for 8 or so years.
I am in a big guild of 200ish players. From my observations I am not alone, in that 95% of the players I see and talk to are running around doing there own thing and not grouped.
Regardless, the combo killer achievement was removed. Kinda makes your entire point moot.
I understand what you are saying… but this isn’t about changing playstyle (that I don’t want to change anyway) but it is now a task that now forces me to co-operate when I don’t wish to. I don’t have time to or inclination to do so.
There are two issues with your statement:
1) The current dailies do not require you to cooperate with another player. You can revive dead NPCs, and the combo daily has been removed due to being buggy, but people reported getting it without being in a party with other players.
2) You are not forced to do dailies. Dailies are trying to reward all playstyles in the game once in a while, so it’s obvious that one day the daily will be about doing something you don’t enjoy, just as one day it will be about something I don’t enjoy, and so on. It’s the same thing as this month’s monthly achievements: if you don’t like to play in a party, did you feel “forced” to PUG Fractals to get the monthly achievement?
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
This title makes no sense. Why would grouping in an MMO not be fun? How are you even avoiding that? Walk around and what do you see? People. Revive them from time to time. Dailies and monthlies are trying to get you to experience different parts of the game. I personally don’t like crafting, but in the end, is it really a big deal that I missed a single daily? It’s not real money you know. It’s not like your mortgage is going to fall through if you don’t get it. Breathe.
Main: Raine Avina (Engineer)
Message me any time in game.
Message me any time in game.
So I am not welcome to voice my concerns? Also that you have a crystal ball and know that all future rotated daily tasks won’t be ‘hoop jumping’ diversions that need assistance on one level or another?
I think there are elements of the daily’s that aren’t fun for everyone. I personally never really liked sticking around for the group events. Before I had to with the daily’s I rarely bothered. Instead I would just run from heart to heart.
When I first tried to do daily’s I hated that part.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
This title makes no sense. Why would grouping in an MMO not be fun? How are you even avoiding that? Walk around and what do you see? People. Revive them from time to time. Dailies and monthlies are trying to get you to experience different parts of the game. I personally don’t like crafting, but in the end, is it really a big deal that I missed a single daily? It’s not real money you know. It’s not like your mortgage is going to fall through if you don’t get it. Breathe.
You missed the point completely!
It isn’t about crafting, and I never said grouping wasn’t enjoyable. It is about using the short time I have to play to now arrange someone to complete the tasks with.
The system was fine as it was! And I’m also happy to have dailies rotated… they should not need any reliance on other players though, in my opinion.
Yeah OP that’s right, the previous daily achievements could be done without breaking a sweat, you didn’t even noticed them while playing the game.
They rewarded you some EXP, Karma, Coin, and a potential item from the gemstore. Amazing right? They might as well throw Legendary weapons around for sitting in town and /dancing all day long.
Reviving dead NPC’s and players, harvesting nodes, doing events with other people causing your attacks to combo with eachother, crafting 10 items, killing different types of enemies.. oh wow soo hard and different than the previous requirements.
I love the new dailies!
I completed mine in under 30 mins without even trying, it just happened naturally. Great job there ANet.
I’m with you Eldric. When the combo with ally daily first appeared I was dismayed. Not because it was hard to do or anything, but because it forced looking for another player. Is playing with other people a bad thing? Of course not. But I want to play with others when I want to, and solo when I want to. The combo with ally forced looking for others to help complete the daily which was not good. I’m glad it was removed. Once it was, I found today’s dailies to be fun. The dodge was fulfilled quickly and I happened to be in Frostgorge Sound at the time near the event where you revive castaways in the water so within a minute or two I had the revive daily fulfilled too.
tl;dr: I support your point and don’t think grouping should be forced – but for the other dailies, give them a try – they weren’t bad and were rather fun (and pretty easy).
You really don’t have to arrange anything. Show up to some events (as you would have most likely under the old structure) and odds are you are going to rez someone or combo with someone. It really is not that much more complicated or different then what it was before. It doesn’t impact how you choose to play (solo or otherwise).
SF
OTR
OTR
Everyone here complaining needs to take a time machine back to 1999 and play EQ1 for a month and then come tell me again about their difficult gameplay and hard to achieve items.
1) The current dailies do not require you to cooperate with another player. You can revive dead NPCs, and the combo daily has been removed due to being buggy, but people reported getting it without being in a party with other players.
2) You are not forced to do dailies. Dailies are trying to reward all playstyles in the game once in a while, so it’s obvious that one day the daily will be about doing something you don’t enjoy, just as one day it will be about something I don’t enjoy, and so on. It’s the same thing as this month’s monthly achievements: if you don’t like to play in a party, did you feel “forced” to PUG Fractals to get the monthly achievement?
1) You don’t know what the other daily tasks will be. I am sure they will involve other hand holding tasks.
2) I’ve never completed a monthly achievement, never done a fractual and only been to two dungeons and never felt forced… not fussed by it. It involved a investment of time outside my reach. Dailies did not require assistance before… now they do (as I am sure other unknown tasks will demonstrate).
1) You don’t know what the other daily tasks will be. I am sure they will involve other hand holding tasks.
Wait wuh?
“You don’t know, but I do know and I am SURE.”
Okay…
Well most of the game is solo, 1 to 80 abut you are automatically grouped.
Events… automatically grouped.
WvW is usually just zerging, automatically grouped.
I am in a big guild of 200ish players. From my observations I am not alone, in that 95% of the players I see and talk to are running around doing there own thing and automatically grouped.
Fixed a few of those for you.
Yeah OP that’s right, the previous daily achievements could be done without breaking a sweat, you didn’t even noticed them while playing the game.
They rewarded you some EXP, Karma, Coin, and a potential item from the gemstore. Amazing right? They might as well throw Legendary weapons around for sitting in town and /dancing all day long.
Reviving dead NPC’s and players, harvesting nodes, doing events with other people causing your attacks to combo with eachother, crafting 10 items, killing different types of enemies.. oh wow soo hard and different than the previous requirements.
I think you are a little over the top… 5 silver, 4k karma and a very infrequent bonus drop is about right for the daily as it was. You need a little perspective.
Well most of the game is solo, 1 to 80 abut you are automatically grouped.
Events… automatically grouped.
WvW is usually just zerging, automatically grouped.
I am in a big guild of 200ish players. From my observations I am not alone, in that 95% of the players I see and talk to are running around doing there own thing and automatically grouped.Fixed a few of those for you.
Pretty poor style to quote me, edit it and keep my name as the poster.
Anyway you are wrong, I don’t need to ask to join a zerg or an event. I can do events solo. I have no requirement of begging folk to join me or spamming LFG like an idiot 1 to 80.
People are as likely to enjoy crafting as to enjoy gathering. People are as likely to enjoy hunting through maps looking for the variety kills as they are to seek underwater kills. Everyone kills enemies when playing the game, but everyone (who actually tries to play well) dodges enemies too.
See, these are what we call “assumptions”, and it’s well known what people say about assumptions. And these assumptions fall apart under even the most delicate scrutiny.
Kill count does not place any emphasis on what you kill, and kill variety is completable on ever non-Orrian map.
Let’s compare to the known current dailies:
- Underwater kills forces me to play sections of the game underwater. I’ve often completed the old dailies without setting so much as a toe in the water, but now I have to do it.
- Crafting requirements force me to craft. I don’t mind crafting but I’m not keen on telling players they HAVE to craft or else skip today’s daily.
- Dodging requirements force me to dodge in a precise way….dodging an attack well before it can possibly hit you due to good reflexes is apparently frowned upon, rather than encouraged.
You cannot possibly hope to argue that the new model is less restrictive than the old one. That is analytically and objectively false.
You are not “forced” to finish your daily achievements. If there’s a daily achievement that goes against the playstyle you enjoy, you should not do it, not play through content you don’t think is fun. By doing the former, you are losing what – a few laurels – while telling ArenaNet that you don’t like a specific kind of achievement, and hopefully ArenaNet can use this information to improve the game. By doing the latter, you are just grinding.
I need to start a running tally of how often I’ve heard this argument.
“It’s totally optional, therefore it’s perfectly acceptable for this aspect of game play to be released in a format that is unacceptable to other players who are offering perfectly valid complaints and bringing up reasonable restrictions to this content as it exists now.”, aka, “It’s optional therefore it’s okay for it to be subpar.”
I do hope I won’t actually have to explain why this is a gross logical fallacy every time it’s brought up, but it’s worth pointing out that it’s not actually as optional as we’re trying to pretend it is.
Except that it’s not really optional, is it? Since it’s the only way to get Ascended amulets and all. I seem to remember the devs saying back in November that they would introduce more ways of getting Ascended gear….apparently their answer to this is to release yet another Ascended item that can only be obtained one way, by grinding laurels for an entire month? Doesn’t sound like a lesson was learned here.
“But Ascended gear is optional, too!”, I expect you’re now claiming, to which I shall place the palm of my hand onto my face. You can’t claim that everything is optional while still arguing that there’s plenty of things to do once you reach the level cap. At what point do we stop using this “optional” excuse to forgive bad game design?
Remember when our developers talked about “strengthening the core game”?
How’d that work out for us so far?
Now let’s try some ideas that will really work.
How’d that work out for us so far?
Now let’s try some ideas that will really work.
(edited by critickitten.1498)
People are as likely to enjoy crafting as to enjoy gathering. People are as likely to enjoy hunting through maps looking for the variety kills as they are to seek underwater kills. Everyone kills enemies when playing the game, but everyone (who actually tries to play well) dodges enemies too.
See, these are what we call “assumptions”, and it’s well known what people say about assumptions. And these assumptions fall apart under even the most delicate scrutiny.
Kill count does not place any emphasis on what you kill, and kill variety is completable on ever non-Orrian map.
Let’s compare to the known current dailies:
- Underwater kills forces me to play sections of the game underwater. I’ve often completed the old dailies without setting so much as a toe in the water, but now I have to do it.
- Crafting requirements force me to craft. I don’t mind crafting but I’m not keen on telling players they HAVE to craft or else skip today’s daily.
- Dodging requirements force me to dodge in a precise way….dodging an attack well before it can possibly hit you due to good reflexes is apparently frowned upon, rather than encouraged.
You cannot possibly hope to argue that the new model is less restrictive than the old one. That is analytically and objectively false.
You are not “forced” to finish your daily achievements. If there’s a daily achievement that goes against the playstyle you enjoy, you should not do it, not play through content you don’t think is fun. By doing the former, you are losing what – a few laurels – while telling ArenaNet that you don’t like a specific kind of achievement, and hopefully ArenaNet can use this information to improve the game. By doing the latter, you are just grinding.
I need to start a running tally of how often I’ve heard this argument.
“It’s totally optional, therefore it’s perfectly acceptable for this aspect of game play to be released in a format that is unacceptable to other players who are offering perfectly valid complaints and bringing up reasonable restrictions to this content as it exists now.”, aka, “It’s optional therefore it’s okay for it to be subpar.”
I do hope I won’t actually have to explain why this is a gross logical fallacy every time it’s brought up, but it’s worth pointing out that it’s not actually as optional as we’re trying to pretend it is.
Except that it’s not really optional, is it? Since it’s the only way to get Ascended amulets and all. I seem to remember the devs saying back in November that they would introduce more ways of getting Ascended gear….apparently their answer to this is to release yet another Ascended item that can only be obtained one way, by grinding laurels for an entire month? Doesn’t sound like a lesson was learned here.
“But Ascended gear is optional, too!”, I expect you’re now claiming, to which I shall place the palm of my hand onto my face. You can’t claim that everything is optional while still arguing that there’s plenty of things to do once you reach the level cap. At what point do we stop using this “optional” excuse to forgive bad game design?
You obviously haven’t read where they said the new daily system is step 1 of a larger plan still coming? One where they said more daily achieves would be implemented but you would only need to do a certain number of those to complete the daily? So that you play the way you want to without going out of your way to do stuff you normally wouldn’t? Your entire beef wouldn’t be entirely based on a misinformed view point and a narrow field of view would it?
If you want a link, look it up yourself. If you can come here to kitten, you can come here to read.
“It’s totally optional, therefore it’s perfectly acceptable for this aspect of game play to be released in a format that is unacceptable to other players who are offering perfectly valid complaints and bringing up reasonable restrictions to this content as it exists now.”, aka, “It’s optional therefore it’s okay for it to be subpar.”
Just because something includes part of the game you don’t like does not mean it’s subpar.
My turret is so much better at this game than I am.
You obviously haven’t read where they said the new daily system is step 1 of a larger plan still coming? One where they said more daily achieves would be implemented but you would only need to do a certain number of those to complete the daily? So that you play the way you want to without going out of your way to do stuff you normally wouldn’t? Your entire beef wouldn’t be entirely based on a misinformed view point and a narrow field of view would it?
It’s clear you didn’t actually read my post, because you’re fabricating an elaborate argument based around something that wasn’t the focus on my post (which, if I’m not mistaken, is what they call “straw-man” arguing).
So first I’ll address your fake argument, then I’ll re-explain my post to you so that perhaps this time you’ll comprehend it properly.
Yes, I know precisely what they’ve promised recently. And I was happy to hear it but expressed disapproval with changing the dailies, and stressed that I was concerned they were going to release yet another untested and broken product. Fast forward to now, and there’s all these threads complaining about the dailies, with devs scrambling to remove some of the ones that clearly weren’t tested well because they’re not even working as they’re supposed to.
Oh, and the best part? Let’s look back at what Colin promised with regards to daily achievements being changed.
In going back to that whole “let people play the way they want to play” concept:
We’re going to hold off on adding most of the daily achievements that send you to specific parts of the game until we’ve added the ability to select from a list (like 4/6.) The initial version you’ll see with rotating daily achievements won’t feature too many new achievement options, since we don’t want to do more specific type achievements without giving you the choice to pick from a list of stuff you’re more excited about.
Apparently, crafting requirements (which many people hate), underwater combat (which many people hate), combo field requirements (which many people hate, and didn’t even work properly so it had to be removed) still qualify as “letting people play the way they want to play”. Apparently he and I do not have the same understanding of that term, as I find that the new system is far more restrictive and forces players directly into areas of the game they don’t want to be involved in, which he specifically promised would not happen until after it was possible to choose your own daily reqs.
And you know what would have avoided all of this hassle and kept a buggy product from releasing before it was ready? I’ll give you a hint, it’s something that players like myself have been suggesting for months: a PTR server.
Sorry, but the dev team that promised us “when it’s ready” doesn’t get very much leniency with regards to releasing broken, buggy, or unfinished content. And they put that burden on themselves.
Remember when our developers talked about “strengthening the core game”?
How’d that work out for us so far?
Now let’s try some ideas that will really work.
How’d that work out for us so far?
Now let’s try some ideas that will really work.
It’s rather unfortunate how some people misuse the word “forced”. Many of you have mentioned that you want to play the game your own way. Guess what? You still can. Playing your own play-style includes deciding whether or not you want to do the daily that day. It’s the opposite of being forced, it’s your own choice! That’s one of the reasons the daily rotates on a daily basis. You have more freedom to choose which days you want to do them.
If gaining a Laurel outweighs your dismay for the task being asked, then you will most likely choose to complete the daily. If your disgust for the daily task outweighs your want of a Laurel, then you will most likely choose not complete the daily. Your choice. Evenmore, as someone mentioned, you will eventually be able to choose which tasks to do from a longer list of dailies. Even more choice.
oh no you have to play the game to get rewards…. how will we cope
If gaining a Laurel outweighs your dismay for the task being asked, then you will most likely choose to complete the daily. If your disgust for the daily task outweighs your want of a Laurel, then you will most likely choose not complete the daily. Your choice. Evenmore, as someone mentioned, you will eventually be able to choose which tasks to do from a longer list of dailies. Even more choice.
Since I’ve already addressed ad nauseam the idea that “optional” = “doesn’t need changing ever”, I’m going to address the much more serious problem with your post….
Do you actually think it’s a good thing for a player to log into the game on any given day and have the “choice” of either doing content they don’t enjoy, or just logging back off?
Because if you do, then we have a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes “good game design”. A game that actively encourages you not to play its content is a game that will have serious problems in the long run. See: FF14 and its widely panned “fatigue system”.
Remember when our developers talked about “strengthening the core game”?
How’d that work out for us so far?
Now let’s try some ideas that will really work.
How’d that work out for us so far?
Now let’s try some ideas that will really work.
Do you actually think it’s a good thing for a player to log into the game on any given day and have the “choice” of either doing content they don’t enjoy, or just logging back off?
I think you missed the poster’s point. The choices are
1. Doing content they don’t enjoy, and getting rewarded
2. Doing content they do enjoy, and not getting rewarded.
Just because you’re not rewarded, it’s not stopping you from playing the way you like.
By the way I feel people really blow this “I DON”T ENJOY THIS." thing waaaay out of proportion. Sure you don’t enjoy it. But it’s not HARD at all. If you really desire those rewards, I’m sure a majority of people will be able handle doing something they don’t enjoy for 5-10 minutes to receive those rewards.
Fractals is the current endgame and to proceed in the fractals from 40 to 49 you are required to have an amulet because Anet “fixed” how agony is applied so that progression is again gear based.
So now, if you want to progress in the endgame, guess what you have to do? That’s right, farm dailies and monthlies.
So, to me, it seems that Anet has indeed made dailies a mandatory part of the game, since it is now a necessity to access the last parts of the game.
Apparently, crafting requirements (which many people hate), underwater combat (which many people hate), combo field requirements (which many people hate, and didn’t even work properly so it had to be removed) still qualify as “letting people play the way they want to play”. Apparently he and I do not have the same understanding of that term, as I find that the new system is far more restrictive and forces players directly into areas of the game they don’t want to be involved in, which he specifically promised would not happen until after it was possible to choose your own daily reqs.
And you know what would have avoided all of this hassle and kept a buggy product from releasing before it was ready? I’ll give you a hint, it’s something that players like myself have been suggesting for months: a PTR server.
Sorry, but the dev team that promised us “when it’s ready” doesn’t get very much leniency with regards to releasing broken, buggy, or unfinished content. And they put that burden on themselves.
Problems here:
1) It is realistically impossible to implement a daily system that allows players to pick only the dailies they wish to complete under the parameters Anet have set as precedent. The player base as a whole both enjoys and dislikes every aspect of the game, which each individual player liking and disliking certain things. There will inevitably come a time where no matter how many toggle able dailies you have, you’ll be ‘forced’ (extreme air quotes hair because this exceeds first world problems) to do a daily you don’t like. I didn’t like Daily Kill Variety. I still don’t like Daily Kill Variety. Does that mean the system as a whole is flawed? No.
2)
a)PTR servers don’t fix bugs. The time required to both read player feedback and fix bugs remains the same regardless of their presence but still come with a slew of additional variables that require tending to. In terms of money/time, a PTR for something this minuscule would be an incredible waste of funds.
b)Sure, you can have these issues addressed before launch, but you’ll also have the patch delayed for several days and an immense amount of kitten about an update that isn’t live festering in the forum for weeks.
3)Only the combo Daily has been confirmed broken and removed to my knowledge.
As usual the vocal minority hilariously blows things vastly out of proportion and stands as eternal testament as to why the ’don’t fix what isn’t broken’ mentality is utter tripe.
(edited by Megido.5061)
Whatever you do in a game there will be someone complaining..you could paint purple a single tree in a single forest in the middle of kittening nowhere..and somebody would complain that the purple tree ruin the scenery and he want it removed….god to be a game designer you must be a saint to go over the daily whining for every little change you do
Combo has been removed.
You can revive dead NPCs, so you can do that alone if you wish.
And aquatic critters count for the aquatic kills.
Is this thread over, then?
I think you missed the poster’s point. The choices are
1. Doing content they don’t enjoy, and getting rewarded
2. Doing content they do enjoy, and not getting rewarded.Just because you’re not rewarded, it’s not stopping you from playing the way you like.
And you feel that this is a good system for designing a game around, and that it encourages people to “play the way they want”?
Because, maybe it’s just me, but I kinda….don’t. I think it makes them feel obligated to do the things they don’t want because otherwise they will not be rewarded for it. This is a dangling carrot design, not true freedom. The original dailies were much better for achieving true freedom in how and where you played, whereas many of these shuffle you towards something you may not want to do.
And I don’t think it’s okay for the devs to say “hey, you can play however you like, so long as it’s on this list of things we specifically think are ‘fun’….otherwise, you’re outta luck!”.
By the way I feel people really blow this “I DON”T ENJOY THIS." thing waaaay out of proportion. Sure you don’t enjoy it. But it’s not HARD at all. If you really desire those rewards, I’m sure a majority of people will be able handle doing something they don’t enjoy for 5-10 minutes to receive those rewards.
I don’t disagree that it’s blown out of proportion in many cases. I’m even willing to defend a few of them, like the “Daily Healer” on, due to the fact that it’s stupidly easy to do them.
But that doesn’t mean that I don’t think there’s serious room for improvement.
Remember when our developers talked about “strengthening the core game”?
How’d that work out for us so far?
Now let’s try some ideas that will really work.
How’d that work out for us so far?
Now let’s try some ideas that will really work.
I agree with the OP. I detest the new dailies.
Pretty much my take on the new dailies. The old ones were in the background and you tended to complete them simply playing the game your way. Maybe a little clean-up around kill variety at the end of the session, but never an issue.
Precisely. The dailies were downright perfect, really.
I had hoped they would be changing the monthies to look more like their original daily system, to be honest, to open up more options for monthly completion. Instead, they made dailies even more restrictive and it’s likely that the monthlies will be no better.
I don’t understand this obsession with breaking things that already worked instead of fixing things that have been broken too long.
The dailies were fine….I just spent almost an hour trying to “dodge” my way to daily completion and I am only at 73% no matter how many mobs I fight and dodge. Its a pain in the kitten as of today. Dailies werent an issue so I am not sure why they made them more difficult.
And you feel that this is a good system for designing a game around, and that it encourages people to “play the way they want”?
I do. Because it prods the playerbase into trying new things in this game.
Take the combo/dodge roll achievements. I was in Orr, and you had people asking “how do I combo” “how do I dodge roll.” I’m quite shocked that people reach 80 without knowing these things, but there are people like that who reach level 80 without a firm grasps of the fundamentals of this game’s combat. I thought the two achievements were genius, because I am confident in saying that, after yesterday, more people than ever know about combos and dodging, a staple in this game’s combat.
Because, maybe it’s just me, but I kinda….don’t. I think it makes them feel obligated to do the things they don’t want because otherwise they will not be rewarded for it. This is a dangling carrot design, not true freedom. The original dailies were much better for achieving true freedom in how and where you played, whereas many of these shuffle you towards something you may not want to do.
And I don’t think it’s okay for the devs to say “hey, you can play however you like, so long as it’s on this list of things we specifically think are ‘fun’….otherwise, you’re outta luck!”.
Yes, they are dangling a carrot. It’s not true freedom, no, but I think it’s a good thing that Anet subtly herds players into certain things, as long as it’s not too strong-handed.
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