Guild Wars 2

Maybe you could give some opinion about the suggestion that was posted:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/suggestion-for-daily-rewards-reorganization

Thanks.

I don’t find dailies a problem, some times i do them sometimes i don’t. I don’t go out of my way to do it.

Tbh, i don’t really care. I don’t play for rewards i play to mess around and have a laugh. Everything else is meaningless and doesn’t improve my enjoyment.

Fortuna.7259:

TooBz.3065:

When the option is to spend 30 minutes a day for 30 days to get ascended gear or acquire 250 T6 mats, 50 ectos, a material only avialable in one dungeon, and 24 skill points to get the ascended gear, I’ll take the dailies every time.

So, because the give you an even worse option, the bad option is suddenly a good one?

The third option is two declare the other two options a waste of time and refuse to play along.

No, daily’s are terrible. I have spouted off against them many times.

However, when I look at the direction the game is going (charging crystals, time gated T7 materials, crafting of ascended gear 1 / day, combining lower tier materials in the mystic forge.) I realize that any change is going to be worse.

TooBz.3065:

Fortuna.7259:

TooBz.3065:

When the option is to spend 30 minutes a day for 30 days to get ascended gear or acquire 250 T6 mats, 50 ectos, a material only avialable in one dungeon, and 24 skill points to get the ascended gear, I’ll take the dailies every time.

So, because the give you an even worse option, the bad option is suddenly a good one?

The third option is two declare the other two options a waste of time and refuse to play along.

No, daily’s are terrible. I have spouted off against them many times.

However, when I look at the direction the game is going (charging crystals, time gated T7 materials, crafting of ascended gear 1 / day, combining lower tier materials in the mystic forge.) I realize that any change is going to be worse.

You understand why ascended is to be time-gated right? It’s to reduce the impact of the inevitable power creep. Whether it’ll be effective or not is another matter ofc

sinzer.4018:

TooBz.3065:

However, when I look at the direction the game is going (charging crystals, time gated T7 materials, crafting of ascended gear 1 / day, combining lower tier materials in the mystic forge.) I realize that any change is going to be worse.

You understand why ascended is to be time-gated right? It’s to reduce the impact of the inevitable power creep. Whether it’ll be effective or not is another matter ofc

Time gating doesn’t control power creep. The release of higher stats controls power creep. Time gating is there to keep you “busy” for a predetermined amount of time. It is “busy work” that you aren’t allowed to put behind you.

Klawlyt.6507:

I think the core of my argument still stands regardless.

Please don’t take offense but I didn’t read past this. I’m pretty much done with this topic. I said my piece and that’s that.

However:

Your pressure to do anything in this game is placed there by yourself.

I always agreed(like 90%) with that statement. In retrospect, I should have mentioned that to save on confusion and your time responding. I apologize.

That being said, self pressure or not, I feel a game should feel like a game and should be able to be done at one’s leisure. I’m against pretty much all forms of gating.

If people want to burn themselves out on a game and jump ship so be it. They’ll do it anyway as we see with the release of EVERY modern MMO to date. Huge influx at launch, server mergers or ghost towns 6 months to a year out. Catering to this crowd is a sure fire way to be left holding little to no users. *stares at the 222 page lost shores thread*

*cringes as someone quotes and straw mans me into ignoring them*

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@Tobias Trueflight.8350
I was trying to make light of the whole ’job’ ’profession’ ’definition’ thing. Even though I was well a part of it, I acknowledge it was down right silly so I try to laugh about it.

sinzer.4018:

TooBz.3065:

Fortuna.7259:

TooBz.3065:

When the option is to spend 30 minutes a day for 30 days to get ascended gear or acquire 250 T6 mats, 50 ectos, a material only avialable in one dungeon, and 24 skill points to get the ascended gear, I’ll take the dailies every time.

So, because the give you an even worse option, the bad option is suddenly a good one?

The third option is two declare the other two options a waste of time and refuse to play along.

No, daily’s are terrible. I have spouted off against them many times.

However, when I look at the direction the game is going (charging crystals, time gated T7 materials, crafting of ascended gear 1 / day, combining lower tier materials in the mystic forge.) I realize that any change is going to be worse.

You understand why ascended is to be time-gated right? It’s to reduce the impact of the inevitable power creep. Whether it’ll be effective or not is another matter ofc

I understand the purpose of time gating… I just don’t care. Power creep, the economy, inflation, etc… all fall into the Somebody Else’s Problem category for me. I’m a simple person, for me, I just care about enjoying myself.

In the abstract I know that each of those factors may affect how much I enjoy the game in the future. So I realized that they need to be managed, but ANet (or anyone else) doesn’t get a free pass on making me do stuff I don’t enjoy just because there’s a problem they need to address.

Be smarter. Make a better game. That’s what I pay for.

sinzer.4018:

You understand why ascended is to be time-gated right? It’s to reduce the impact of the inevitable power creep. Whether it’ll be effective or not is another matter ofc

How is that? Delaying an impact is not reducing it.

Time-gating serves one purpose and one only. It stacks the deck on the side of the developer in the tug-of-war between the developer’s desire to extend the game and player desire to burn through it as fast as possible.

IndigoSundown.5419:

sinzer.4018:

You understand why ascended is to be time-gated right? It’s to reduce the impact of the inevitable power creep. Whether it’ll be effective or not is another matter ofc

How is that? Delaying an impact is not reducing it.

Time-gating serves one purpose and one only. It stacks the deck on the side of the developer in the tug-of-war between the developer’s desire to extend the game and player desire to burn through it as fast as possible.

This is not quite accurate. Time-gating in games extends the game, but it’s also meant to prevent the player from burning through content OR far too easily getting an edge over the game which takes challenge away. I’ve seen games where (if you know what you’re doing) you can get a massively overpowering edge early on due to skipping time-gates.

It does alter the balance of the game following the point where you “sequence break” to be somewhat less interesting.

I agree 100% with OP, he has stated the problem precisely IMO, I’ve just given up caring to argue the point. I’m part of the it-feels-like-a-job crowd, and I’ve retired from that job.
temporary content (living story) is almost as bad as dailies for the same reasons.

GW2 is all about dailies and achievments points, no real substencial content being added since fractals. They’re just pushing more every month to recycle old content with monthly updates that force you do re-do the old content or Mario party games in order to gain new achievments. Dailies and achievment points, this is GW2.

Shugo.1453:

. . . Mario party games in order to gain new achievments.

While I agree with the sentiment (minigames HAVE run amok recently, but it was part of the request some months ago “more minigames”) . . .

I don’t know if “Mario Party games” describes these things well. HL/Quake mod games, probably, as I have played similar to “Candidate Trials” on that if I recall.

I didn’t read the entire thread, but I do agree with the OP.

Dailies, and I would also throw in achievements, have truly changed MMOs for the worse. Used to be back in the day you would log in and just go explore, get lost, have fun, socialize and kill kitten.

Nowadays, you are presented with a checklist of things you must do every day when you log in (dailies), and things you should do after that (achievements). I understand the devs want these things to just happen by regular play time, but it is simply in many people’s nature to see them as a TODO list they have to finish every day.

I miss the days of actual adventuring in an MMO without all the lists and hand holding. Even with this attitude, its hard for me not to feel the need to check that list off for the daily laurel, or for a few more points for the next achievement chest reward.

MMOs are getting overly convoluted. Sometimes less truly is better.

Nettle.9025:

Nowadays, you are presented with a checklist of things you must do every day when you log in (dailies), and things you should do after that (achievements). I understand the devs want these things to just happen by regular play time, but it is simply in many people’s nature to see them as a TODO list they have to finish every day.

IF the developers “just wanted these things to happen” then why have a list at all? They could just pass out points for being active in the game and trigger the reward after a bit of play, no matter what you are doing (aside from just being inert or on trade post).

No, the truth is they want to coerce people into doing things the normally wouldn’t… like fighting underwater or zerging a particular zone. You aren’t to be permitted to decide what content you would rather avoid. This is particularly true for monthlies, where people that hate pvp or dungeons do them anyway. Getting people to do things they hate as a game is just one of the amazing features of the MMO universe.

Fortuna.7259:

No, the truth is they want to coerce people into doing things the normally wouldn’t… like fighting underwater or zerging a particular zone.

I don’t know, I haven’t felt like I was being forced into things. I mean, if I want it done quickly? Join a WvW zerg and knock it out quickly. And if it’s a zerg which actually has enemy players in the way, you can get a good jump on half the Monthly. I mean, two nights in WvW and I had 3/4 on my Monthly. Less than two hours a night, and the Daily only requred a Karma purchase and a Laurel Vendor visit to round them out.

Also, it’s less “coercion” and more “enticement”. Coercion implies a penalty to be applied if you don’t, enticement implies a reward for doing it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

IndigoSundown.5419:

sinzer.4018:

You understand why ascended is to be time-gated right? It’s to reduce the impact of the inevitable power creep. Whether it’ll be effective or not is another matter ofc

How is that? Delaying an impact is not reducing it.

Time-gating serves one purpose and one only. It stacks the deck on the side of the developer in the tug-of-war between the developer’s desire to extend the game and player desire to burn through it as fast as possible.

This is not quite accurate. Time-gating in games extends the game, but it’s also meant to prevent the player from burning through content OR far too easily getting an edge over the game which takes challenge away. I’ve seen games where (if you know what you’re doing) you can get a massively overpowering edge early on due to skipping time-gates.

It does alter the balance of the game following the point where you “sequence break” to be somewhat less interesting.

I was replying to a post about Ascended, which afaik does not pertain to other games; hence my comment was GW2 specific. While the topic is listed as dailies in MMO’s, this thread is basically another discussion of dailies in GW2. Since laurel acquisition cannot be sped up — except minutely, through achievements — the point stands. If you like, read my statement as, “Time gating in GW2 serves …”

IndigoSundown.5419:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

IndigoSundown.5419:

sinzer.4018:

You understand why ascended is to be time-gated right? It’s to reduce the impact of the inevitable power creep. Whether it’ll be effective or not is another matter ofc

How is that? Delaying an impact is not reducing it.

Time-gating serves one purpose and one only. It stacks the deck on the side of the developer in the tug-of-war between the developer’s desire to extend the game and player desire to burn through it as fast as possible.

This is not quite accurate. Time-gating in games extends the game, but it’s also meant to prevent the player from burning through content OR far too easily getting an edge over the game which takes challenge away. I’ve seen games where (if you know what you’re doing) you can get a massively overpowering edge early on due to skipping time-gates.

It does alter the balance of the game following the point where you “sequence break” to be somewhat less interesting.

I was replying to a post about Ascended, which afaik does not pertain to other games; hence my comment was GW2 specific. While the topic is listed as dailies in MMO’s, this thread is basically another discussion of dailies in GW2. Since laurel acquisition cannot be sped up — except minutely, through achievements — the point stands. If you like, read my statement as, “Time gating in GW2 serves …”

It doesn’t completely translate to other games, but it’s up there with some sequence breaking players can do.

Dailies aren’t really the problem, so much as the players are. Because when the Daily Achievements were first in? There wasn’t any point to doing it other than Mystic Coins and the occasional neat BLC item. Then there were complaints that doing the Daily wasn’t rewarding, during a time it was thought Karma was too hard to get so they added the Jugs of Karma.

Then there was a bunch of extra stuff converging into the solution of Laurels: the means of acquiring Ascended gear outside of Fractals (not requiring luck farming it until you get the Ring you wanted, or relics to purchase them), Dailies needing (again) to be relevant, and trying to figure out how to make sure alternate means of Ascended weren’t too easy since there was a big movement about how they were too powerful compared to Exotics.

After that, there was talk about how unrewarding certain World Bosses not named Champion Svanir Chief, The Shatterer, Tequatl the Sunless and Claw of Jormag could be, so the Bonus Chests were added on a daily timer, and expanded on little by little.

. . . and so we reach now, when finally some other things seem to have been laid onto the daily reset time, which is convenient since other things are on it . . . so might as well use the same timer. Really, it’s hard to say it’s all ANet’s fault since it was rooted in players complaining the opposite of “Dailies are too important”.

The vocal majority got their wish. Now the vocal majority wants something different. I’d be more snarky about it, but in MMO-land, this is relatively normal.

I gave up on dailies they are a waste of time, look at the rewards? Ascended stuff that is great if you WvW the rest its pointless ugly weapon skins and overpriced mats…

I think i’ve done 3 dailies in the past few months and they were just luck..if you see the rewards for what they are you’ll stop doing them.

Dante.1508:

I gave up on dailies they are a waste of time, look at the rewards? Ascended stuff that is great if you WvW the rest its pointless ugly weapon skins and overpriced mats…

I think i’ve done 3 dailies in the past few months and they were just luck..if you see the rewards for what they are you’ll stop doing them.

I do them largely without trying, anymore. I just pop on, do something fun, hop into WvW to see if SBI is getting its teeth kicked in again . . . the usual It’s largely due to my available time often being later than everyone else.

dailies = bullcrap.

Weeklies would be much better than dailies, with rewards given incrementally, rather than having to achieve the equivalent of seven dailies to get anything. Even allowing you to go back an complete dailies for the previous week would be better than the current system and maybe easier to implement.

It has become a job. Worse though, I found that doing dailies broke me of sustainable game play habits and pulled me out of immersion with the world and it’s vast amounts of content.

Living Story events do the same thing at a more disturbing level.

Dailies and Living Story achievements are just a bunch of linear hoops through which players must jump for rewards they can’t earn any other way. Eventually most people will tire of jumping through those hoops. However, in the mean time, people are being trained away from free form game play across the greater world space, which trivializes and wastes all the work and effort that went into creating the superb game world.

By the time players burn out on dailies and LS achievements, many will never be able to go back to enjoy the actual game.

Dailies would be better if you just got the reward for playing a certain amount of time with no other qualifiers.
Although to be honest, the longer I play, the more I think that the whole concepts of dailies, timegating and achievements do irrevocable damage to the game and turn it more into a chore than a fun pastime.
I really am not playing the way I want to play any more. I’m playing to tick boxes, not have fun.

Mungrul, I have an idea. How about instead of playing for the dailies, you just play what’s fun to you? What have you got to lose besides meaningless digital doodadads? If nothing else, it might be worth a shot. Just see if playing the parts you find fun would be more fun than playing the parts you don’t find fun.

NewTrain.7549:

I have not seen a single good answer to the question “Why should 30 minutes a day for 7 days be rewarded more than 3.5 hours a day for one day?”

Because there isn’t one.

Anyone is who against equal reward for equal time played is just selfish and greedy.

Doesn’t work like that Klawlyt, and yours is just another variation of the old “You don’t HAVE to do it” argument.
These types of games are very deviously designed to get you hooked so that you keep on playing and keep on giving them your money.
They rely on taking advantage of Pavlovian reactions, and resisting those are very difficult. I’d argue that this design is exploitative, and needs to be fixed at a developer level.

When it comes down to it, how much fun is there to be had outside of these activities if all the developer is doing is pouring resources into more of these activities?

I’ve done world exploration (on 3 characters), I’ve got one of every profession at 80 (2 mesmers), I’ve done the Legendary thing, I’ve seen all the variations of the Personal Story I care to see, I’ve killed gods know how many world bosses, I’ve done all the dungeon spelunking and fractal frequenting I care to do.
The only thing left that offers any interesting variety these days is WvW, and I can only play a certain amount of that before getting bored with the lack of permanent goals and staid tactics thanks to poorly implemented large group mechanics.

Instead of creating interesting content that stays around and has depth without being an achievement or reward, ArenaNet are constantly appealing to the reptilian side of our natures that pushes buttons for treats.

Tell me one new thing that’s been added to the game since release that is deep and challenging rather than a fleeting distraction designed to promote endless repetition.

I keep playing because after 2,000+ hours, it’s hard to break the habit, but recent developments are getting better at making me realise I need something a bit more intellectually stimulating than GW2 can offer.

Peetee.9406:

NewTrain.7549:

I have not seen a single good answer to the question “Why should 30 minutes a day for 7 days be rewarded more than 3.5 hours a day for one day?”

Because there isn’t one.

Anyone is who against equal reward for equal time played is just selfish and greedy.

Because they’re dailies, not playedies. They’re not a nefarious means to keep the proletariat down. They’re not needed for anything meaningful. You don’t miss out on anything tangible by not doing them. It’s not like we’re talking about the disparity between the changes in worker productivity and real wages over the past several decades. We’re talking about picking a method for a video game to give goal oriented people something to strive for, and as a substitute to the popular WoW-styled rested XP.

There are pluses and minuses to every system and this is the one they picked. Do you also believe it’s heinously unfair that WoW and ToR cap the amount of rested xp you can earn? What system of doling out digital goodies would meet your ideals of social justice, the weekly? I play shows a lot of weekends, so maybe I can only get one good weekend in every month. What about my catch up? Why do I have to play every single week, if I go on a bender on or two weekends a month? Where do you draw the line?

I’m not saying dailies are perfect, but your fanatical opposition to them part amazes me, part saddens me.

Klawlyt.6507:

Peetee.9406:

NewTrain.7549:

I have not seen a single good answer to the question “Why should 30 minutes a day for 7 days be rewarded more than 3.5 hours a day for one day?”

Because there isn’t one.

Anyone is who against equal reward for equal time played is just selfish and greedy.

Because they’re dailies, not playedies. They’re not a nefarious means to keep the proletariat down. They’re not needed for anything meaningful. You don’t miss out on anything tangible by not doing them. It’s not like we’re talking about the disparity between the changes in worker productivity and real wages over the past several decades. We’re talking about picking a method for a video game to give goal oriented people something to strive for, and as a substitute to the popular WoW-styled rested XP.

There are pluses and minuses to every system and this is the one they picked. Do you also believe it’s heinously unfair that WoW and ToR cap the amount of rested xp you can earn? What system of doling out digital goodies would meet your ideals of social justice, the weekly? I play shows a lot of weekends, so maybe I can only get one good weekend in every month. What about my catch up? Why do I have to play every single week, if I go on a bender on or two weekends a month? Where do you draw the line?

I’m not saying dailies are perfect, but your fanatical opposition to them part amazes me, part saddens me.

A queue system that back logs dailies is a no brainer.

You go away for a month, you can comeback and do 30 of them. You miss a couple days, you make them up on the weekend.

It’s also a solution for anyone who wants to reach the top of the achievement leaderboard but can’t because they bought the game a few months late. No problem we’ll back log 100 dailies and 3 monthlies for you, do them at your leisure.

Equal reward for equal time played…it’s a simple concept.

And to take it one step further, what other players do with their playing time does not affect you. They’re not following you around typing angrily in your ear. They’re playing the game their way at their pace enjoying their own business. The reward that they receive or don’t receive has no affect on you what so ever so it should not be your concern.

If you’re perfectly fine with missing a few dailies here and there, hey more power to you. But when a player comes to forums asking for equal rights, it’s not your job to defend the oppressive system (it is) because the entire situation doesn’t affect you. To sit here and pretend that someone doesn’t deserve equal treatment in the 21st century is ignorant, selfish, and borderline psychotic.

Mungrul.9358:

Although to be honest, the longer I play, the more I think that the whole concepts of dailies, timegating and achievements do irrevocable damage to the game and turn it more into a chore than a fun pastime.

I feel the same. Around 3k hours played and 11k pts achieved, dailies took me 2h/day until now, and this update just make it worse. It shows that developers don’t have anything more to offer but artificial content, it’s been a year now, and GW2 has exactly the same content except fractals since its release. ArenaNet are the “Skritt of the year”, because they know how to recycle their content.
Dailies and achievment points, that’s what remains of GW2 after one year, that’s the only argument to hold people playing their game.

rogerwilko.6895:

dailies = bullcrap.

Such a simple, yet elegant post. I fully agree with this.

Keep in mind the new 500 Crafting weapons/armor will also be time-gated. Charged Quartz was supposed to be a test for that (if I understood the article correctly.)

Kain Francois.4328:

Keep in mind the new 500 Crafting weapons/armor will also be time-gated. Charged Quartz was supposed to be a test for that (if I understood the article correctly.)

Should we break out the torches and pitchforks?

Dog.1472:

Kain Francois.4328:

Keep in mind the new 500 Crafting weapons/armor will also be time-gated. Charged Quartz was supposed to be a test for that (if I understood the article correctly.)

Should we break out the torches and pitchforks?

I’m hoping IceFlame will make a new comic.

Peetee.9406:

A queue system that back logs dailies is a no brainer.

You go away for a month, you can comeback and do 30 of them. You miss a couple days, you make them up on the weekend.

It’s also a solution for anyone who wants to reach the top of the achievement leaderboard but can’t because they bought the game a few months late. No problem we’ll back log 100 dailies and 3 monthlies for you, do them at your leisure.

Equal reward for equal time played…it’s a simple concept.

And to take it one step further, what other players do with their playing time does not affect you. They’re not following you around typing angrily in your ear. They’re playing the game their way at their pace enjoying their own business. The reward that they receive or don’t receive has no affect on you what so ever so it should not be your concern.

If you’re perfectly fine with missing a few dailies here and there, hey more power to you. But when a player comes to forums asking for equal rights, it’s not your job to defend the oppressive system (it is) because the entire situation doesn’t affect you. To sit here and pretend that someone doesn’t deserve equal treatment in the 21st century is ignorant, selfish, and borderline psychotic.

I’m not even saying that a moderate backlog of a week or so is bad. It’s your language that amazes me. Oppressive? Really? Oppressive?! Like the ANet staff are so much further ahead by making you do dailies daily. Like Mike O’Brien’s life is so much better because he’s denying you the reward of having a shiny gauntlet and a couple slightly better statted trinkets a couple weeks earlier than you would have otherwise?

I took a few months off at the beginning of the year. Those dailies and monthlies (and you know, the parts of the game that actually resembled a game) are gone. I’m not bitter. Good on them. I was off playing Marvel Heroes and Fallout 3 for the umpteenth time. ArenaNet doesn’t owe me kitten.

I’m going camping this weekend. I’m going to miss 4 days of dailies (and I usually get normal and PvP!), the WvW reset (plus the whole weekend which, y’know, is the part that matters in WvW), AND the return of Breaking Bad! That’s life! Just because ANet isn’t doing things in the absolutely most perfect way you can imagine, doesn’t mean the man is trying to keep you down.

On the other hand, the man really IS trying to keep you down, the man just ain’t ANet.

Kain Francois.4328:

More and more in modern video games, I see time-gated content and dailies.

In my opinion, this makes a game worse than grinding. The explanation of quite simple: It turns a game into a job, at which point it stops becoming fun.

Normal people work during the week, then go home on the weekends to binge on their favorite video games. In an entire week’s worth of work, they are able to make up for it in one day by working extra hard.

However, dailies prevent you from doing that. Instead, you are forced to log on every day, even when you’re not in the mood. (While some argue against being “forced”, the fact is it will take a very, very long time if you do not log in every day.)

This creates a false addiction, where players feel like their game is more of a hassle or job than a game.

This is a plague to modern gaming in general, and I’m especially concerned with the direction of Guild Wars 2.

Dailies are not a good thing!

For me it’s not a job. You know why? Because it’s freaking video game for me. I couldn’t care less about receiving some laurel gear a few weeks sooner or later.

Maybe re-evaluate your perspective on the whole thing if you’re trying to bring analogies like that.

holotype.1643:

regardless of whether you like dailies or not, or if you like GW2’s implementation of them (vs WoW’s for example), they are surely not required.

Sometimes when I log in I don’t get all of the requirements done for the daily, and I log out without worry.

Other times, the daily gives me something to do in addition to guild activity or dungeons or farming.

It’s a complimentary feature and I bet most players appreciate the option.

This, they’re entirely optional as far as I’m concerned. Sometimes I get inspired to do a daily, or complete a monthly if it’s close; most of the time I don’t even think about dailies or monthlies at all, and just play the game. When I play in that mode, the notification that I’ve gotten some daily or monthly is a pleasant reward.

On the other hand, if a player is a completionist, or wants to get gear fast, they are there as an option. But if they want to get gear fast, why would they complain about dailies, since they’d have to play a lot to get gear fast under any conceivable system.

Any perceived “pressure” is psychological, and depends on one’s desires.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I don’t know, I haven’t felt like I was being forced into things. I mean, if I want it done quickly? Join a WvW zerg and knock it out quickly. And if it’s a zerg which actually has enemy players in the way, you can get a good jump on half the Monthly. I mean, two nights in WvW and I had 3/4 on my Monthly. Less than two hours a night, and the Daily only requred a Karma purchase and a Laurel Vendor visit to round them out.

Also, it’s less “coercion” and more “enticement”. Coercion implies a penalty to be applied if you don’t, enticement implies a reward for doing it.

That you have strategies for finishing some of the requirements quickly only tells me your behavior is being manipulated, just as I argued. Maybe you are someone who gets off of work and thinks to himself, “I’m really excited to be able to visit the Karma Vendor again!” I’ll wager for most people this isn’t something they would spend time doing without being manipulated.

Your distinction between coercion and enticement isn’t so clear cut. By selectively rewarding people you can effectively punish those that you do not reward. Coercion just refers to the application of pressure, and players definitely feel the pressure of “falling behind” their peers. For an extreme example, imagine giving 100 gold for completing a daily. You are “rewarding” those who do them, but you are at the same time “punishing” those who do not, because of the resulting inflation. In this case, the primary reward is gear, which players use to obtain things such as prestige from their peers. This is much harder to measure than gold, but the effect (“gear inflation” etc.) is similar.

Interestingly, I find that the people that are most committed to doing dailies/monthlies usually express notions of “falling behind” if they don’t do them, rather than excitement about what they can earn by doing them. These players get a sense that if they can’t finish a daily, the will be forever “down a laurel.” In other words, if these dailies succeed in altering behavior long-term, it is my experience that they usually do so by coercion and not by enticement. In either case, however, it is “manipulation.” And I don’t think most people are really comfortable knowing they are being manipulated.

Mungrul.9358:

Instead of creating interesting content that stays around and has depth without being an achievement or reward, ArenaNet are constantly appealing to the reptilian side of our natures that pushes buttons for treats.

This is a really important point. When a company discovers it can serve you dirt cheap dog food by lacing it with an addictive substance, guess what they’ll do? People are lapping it up.

gurugeorge.9857:

Any perceived “pressure” is psychological, and depends on one’s desires.

What “perceived pressure” is not psychological?

The question here is “Is it reasonable that someone would feel pressured from this?” The answer to that is certainly “Yes.” In fact, it is intended by design.

Randulf.7614:

Dailies are an excellent addition to mmo’s in my opinion – they allow players, particularly casually minded players, to obtain items at a pace more suited to their needs without any form of grind whatsoever (there is no grind in the current dailys at all, not even slightly).

Dailys like the GW2 ones work because the reward you with things which you don’t need to progress. The argument of laurels for ascended is moot since ascended provides virtually nil advantage in open world play.

Forcing is the wrong word. Encouraging is a better one. MMO’s need people logging in. No matter how strong the content can be, MMO’s need little gimmicks like these to keep people logging in to their game – that’s why they exist and why they work so well

I want to progress in Fractales, so I do need a My desired Rings and the Armulet+ Accessoirys to get further. And secondly this is strongly agains casual players. As a casual player I do not have the mood and time to log in every day and as a casual player, I do not have the mood to do 5 events here, use the mystic forge there, kill some invaders there, do a puzze and do a fractal on one day. As a casual player, I might log in every 2nd day, I’d like to play one day WvW, the next day I want to grind some fractales. Yes I really want a new Armor, but is doing every day COF1 once the right way? To my opinion they should change all daily content into weekly content, i.e. you can do CoF1 5 times a day and receive 5 times the full reward, but for the rest of the week you can casually do something else. I am playing casual stuff, and when I look 30 minutes before daily reset now whether i can finish it and i see that I have to do 2 more group events or kills in the middle of nowhere, its not fun at all and I miss the daily though I have actively played for like 4 houres.

I would really appreciate weeklys and for the hard core fans, make it like this: you get 5 times full reward for dungeon path 1, but if you want to receive it again in the same week, you have to clean the other 2 paths 5 times aswell in this week. This way one can actually PUSH things though doing it casually effords still less time in total. (you get 1 laurel per 4 completed categories, but if you want to redo 1 category, you have to wait a week or complete ALL categories)

Weekly and Monthly content FTW, daily content FTL – thats my opinion and im sure some people share it.

Didn’t read all 3 pages, pretty much the first few post. This is more to the op. It seems you may be struggling with deciding on maintaining a position on the leaderboard and having to do all dailies everyday is causing it to seem like a job.

My experiance with that. About a 6 weeks ago, I wakittenting around 120 on leaderboard. I realized at that point. In order for me to go higher or maintain that what the cost of that was going to be. So I forced myself to stop playing for a couple weeks altogether. Wasn’t easy. After I decided to start playing again, I would only do enough dailies to get the laurel. Since that time the living story and all that entails has not been an issue. 3 parts of the living story I havent even bothered to finish.
Choosing to do this, has really made the game more fun. imho, the dailies are fine the way they are. I like being able to log in choose the 5 simple ones and be done, or if I feel like playing more and need something to do. I can work a few more.

I feel if people are concerned about the dailies making it seem like a job. That is 100% a personal choice. Those who have the time and wish to seek the top of the lb should have the options to do so, just like those who do not wish to seek that.
Seven years of gw1 have taught me one thing for sure. If I rush through and get everything done now. A few years from now gw2 will be nothing more than a glorified chat program.

Until I’m on Anets payroll, I’m not doing a virtual job for them.

I already got a real one, don’t need a fake too….

Fortuna.7259:

That you have strategies for finishing some of the requirements quickly only tells me your behavior is being manipulated, just as I argued. Maybe you are someone who gets off of work and thinks to himself, “I’m really excited to be able to visit the Karma Vendor again!” I’ll wager for most people this isn’t something they would spend time doing without being manipulated.

No, I’m someone who gets off of work with a brain feeling like mush and having the Daily list there lets me pick up a circuit to go amuse myself with that night. Maguuma Slayer is on there? Okay, Mount Maelstrom it is, or maybe I’ll take an alt through picking up spots in Caledon/Metrica. Veteran Slayer? Eh, maybe I’ll hop on the SBI borderlands or EB to take a look at what’s going on.

Days off, I mostly hop on and see what the guild is up to, ride along with them for a bit, then split off to go do something else.

Your distinction between coercion and enticement isn’t so clear cut. By selectively rewarding people you can effectively punish those that you do not reward.

So, if I were to hand random people $10 in a WalMart, I am punishing those who I didn’t give it to? Or what about coupons, they punish people for not buying certain brands? (Usually the coupon doesn’t cover the price difference between generic and brand name, but whatever . . . )

Coercion just refers to the application of pressure, and players definitely feel the pressure of “falling behind” their peers.

Not all of them, and in fact I’ve found more who care about their WvW rank than their “falling behind” someone else.

Interestingly, I find that the people that are most committed to doing dailies/monthlies usually express notions of “falling behind” if they don’t do them, rather than excitement about what they can earn by doing them. These players get a sense that if they can’t finish a daily, the will be forever “down a laurel.” In other words, if these dailies succeed in altering behavior long-term, it is my experience that they usually do so by coercion and not by enticement. In either case, however, it is “manipulation.” And I don’t think most people are really comfortable knowing they are being manipulated.

I agree that mentality is a problem, but it’s because there’s not much worthwhile for Laurels to buy you other than gear you don’t really need to do much, most of which you can get in other methods (which might be more entertaining than grinding Dailies).

Except for Guild Missions. I haven’t found too many people excited to go do them, but I do find guilds explicitly created to offer a community outreach to those who wanted to do them but couldn’t otherwise. I’m in one