Guild Wars 2

Sounds like it works for both kinds of people, then. Those wanting to just play for fun, and those that expect more of a challenge. =)

They didn’t take this from WoW.
Gw1’s PVE endgame was ALSO nothing but daily Nick scavenging, Zaishen Bounties, Title/skin chasing, & “playing the eonomy”

It’s simple… play a stable of Alts instead like the rest of us did.
If you hate grinding, then don’t grind.

When you grind & gear-chase… and do nothing else..
…all it does is reinforce Anet’s datamining metrics & ensures this lazy design cycle

Thanks for the input. Oh wait..

Just for the sake of the argument “you don’t need ascended gear so you are not forced to do your daily”.

Some people like to improve their characters. That’s why they play rpgs, and I bet they would prefer to do so by playing some challenging content and be rewarded for their hard work instead of picking 20 flowers and kill 40 moas in kryta. Every day.

I’d like myself better something like this: you get 1 laurel for your daily, then 1 laurel for each dungeon you fully complete during that day, meaning story+3 different paths. Also, every dungeon should have a fourth path, an kittene, to award you with an extra laurel if you complete all 4+story. WvW could have like 1 laurel every X levels they gain in wvw rank and pvp could award you with laurels for winning tourneys. But I’m digressing here.

The difference between full ascended and full exotic trinkets is not negligible.

This is the difference between a full set of exotic trinkets with jewels and a full set of ascended trinkets:

Main attribute: ascended has 62 more stat points. That’s 6.2 trait points, 12% better than exotics.
Secondary attribute: ascended has 30 more stat points. That’s 3 trait points, 8.5% better than exotics.
% attribute: ascended has 8 more percentage points. That’s 8 trait points, 22% better than exotics. Not to mention, ascended gear has the best % ratio.

And I’m not taking into account infusions because they’re really grindy to get, that’s 30 more points.

It is a noticeable difference, especially talking about berserker gear and critical damage. In pve the difference escalates for 5 party members and in wvw, without them, you won’t start at the same ground as an ascended equipped opponent. Want to perform better in dungeons and wvw? You need ascended. Personally, I could feel the difference in wvw when I equipped my engi SD with full ascended.

Vayne.8563:

Nope, you should work on yours.

What you’re saying is people would rather NOT enjoy the game, than take ten minutes to check into something they don’t understand.

No you’re making assumptions that players know about such resources as dulfy or are able to search effectively for them, which doesn’t necessarily hold. And players shouldn’t need to use external resources like that anyway.

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, you should work on yours.

What you’re saying is people would rather NOT enjoy the game, than take ten minutes to check into something they don’t understand.

No you’re making assumptions that players know about such resources as dulfy or are able to search effectively for them, which doesn’t necessarily hold. And players shouldn’t need to use external resources like that anyway.

If you ask around or join a guild, you’re using internal resources. But you know, it’s part of the game, like any part.

If you go into a dungeon either you try to beat it or you research it. But at some point you have to learn SOMETHING. Even if it’s only the location of where veterans are.

I saw a guy the other other day in Caledon Forest asking in map chat if anyone knew where to find veterans. A couple of people answered him. He never left the game to do it.

You learn where they are just once. Then you know for the next time.

What people are saying is that it’s too hard for me to take the time out and learn where stuff is that will get me stuff I want and make the game easier for me.

I find I have surprisingly little sympathy for those people.

We have Veterans coming out of our ears in WvW. Events, too. Today I got my Dailies after playing WvW for an hour, which I was going to do anyway, and I didn’t have to go even a little bit out of my way to do it.

Dailies + Ascended + WXP = grind + power grind = everything GW2 wasn’t supposed to be. :/

At least dailies happen naturally in WvW without much thought about them, but the WXP power grind sucks.

Daily Wars, Grind Wars, Casino Wars…Like Krutoisis said above…all of these make Guild Wars 2 everything it wasnt supposed to be.

The real problem here is that the latest mmorpg tends to be more and more single players online than actual mmo. Honestly a game that basicly lets you finish it all in solo it’s not an mmo.
And people that wants to achieve that without playing with others should go and play single players not MMO.

It’s absurd that some people doesn’t understand that mmo content should never finish, simply because most of the time the content should be created by the players themselves, by their interactions and “frictions”.
Though again, the latest mmo remove the ability to do so (we are all in this kind of paradise where only the mobs are evil), and you have to rely only on the content given. Then it’s obvious that contents finishes.

I didn’t played GW1 so i don’t know how stuff “should” evolve in GW2, but i’m sure GW1 doesn’t follow my points.
I mean, a game that is called “Guild, Wars”, where are these guild wars? where’s this competition that can create content?
Until we have the kind of goals everyone tends to (i want the best gear, i’m all colored in white/black/gold whatever. I did all the achievement etc) content will finish fast (or boring and a grind fest).
I respect who likes to play towards that but it’s not definitely for me.

Though i want you to reflect about this: why you have to come to an MMO to have some bunch of pixels and colors.. thing that can be given by any single player. An MMO should be expected to give social interaction between players and well different goals, group goals… but the current rewards (or the missing things to do as a guild) are not enough.

Imho we should have lived in a open world pvp area from the start, with just some safe zones for the people to start (or people that doesn’t want to pvp, but with their pve can contribute to pvp people).
Then it would have been another game and not GW2 probably, i know, but this is (part) of why we are in this status imho.

Smjert.2869:

The real problem here is that the latest mmorpg tends to be more and more single players online than actual mmo. Honestly a game that basicly lets you finish it all in solo it’s not an mmo.

This is far as I got in your response.

A MMO which was originally called a MUD. Never demanded it be team centered. The believe in that it must be is nieave and sort sighted.

MUDs were social oriented like going to LA to chat or roleplay. Most people usually soloed the mobs in those. Then time to time a GM would bring in a big mob for everyone to fight in an open world event.

GW2 is more like these original game then what MMOs are today.

All MMO means is Massive Multi-player Online.

This game has it all and to even to imply otherwise is again nieave and uninformed

Krosslite.1950:

Smjert.2869:

The real problem here is that the latest mmorpg tends to be more and more single players online than actual mmo. Honestly a game that basicly lets you finish it all in solo it’s not an mmo.

This is far as I got in your response.

A MMO which was originally called a MUD. Never demanded it be team centered. The believe in that it must be is nieave and sort sighted.

MUDs were social oriented like going to LA to chat or roleplay. Most people usually soloed the mobs in those. Then time to time a GM would bring in a big mob for everyone to fight in an open world event.

GW2 is more like these original game then what MMOs are today.

All MMO means is Massive Multi-player Online.

This game has it all and to even to imply otherwise is again nieave and uninformed

First of all comparing the MUDs with MMO games like GW2 is a fail, sorry.
MUD it’s old stuff and bound to what at the time programmers could achieve connecting people together, so they were surely limited in the “tools” given to people to enjoy always their game together.
Then i think you can’t negate that MMO are for team and social gameplay, otherwise there’s no kitten point to play online first of all, and with other people connected to “your” world.
Otherwise you’re saying that MMO are actually single player online where it’s “cool” to see other people move around, treating them like NPCs, and sometimes playing co-ops (dungeons). If that’s what you think you completely failed to understood what a MMO is.
And yes thanks i know what MMO means, but again it seems you didn’t understood that they aren’t to play solo (or just with a restrict group of people), there are single players with co-op for that.

bullettohead.9715:

Where’s my achievement/title for 3manning CoE, or going through an arah path with no downs in the party?

I think I’m pretty casual, yet I love that idea. Run, don’t walk, to the Suggestions forum (if you haven’t already). It would be great to see that thought fleshed out a little and offered as a suggestion.

crystal.5930:

bullettohead.9715:

Where’s my achievement/title for 3manning CoE, or going through an arah path with no downs in the party?

I think I’m pretty casual, yet I love that idea. Run, don’t walk, to the Suggestions forum (if you haven’t already). It would be great to see that thought fleshed out a little and offered as a suggestion.

People shouldn’t have to do silly kitten like create difficulty for themselves. This is another bad trend in games these days. For instance in Skyrim I literally had to stop using Blacksmithing/Enchanting/Alchemy because it made the game way to easy. There’s games were a weapon drops early on that makes the game extremely easy (dark souls). We shouldn’t have to force ourselves to not use something within the games mechanics to be challenged.

Lets take CoF P1.

I’ve ran this crappy dungeon at least 100 times and I still don’t know what the 1st boss mechanic is, mostly because it a faceroll like 99% of all bosses in the game. So how about instead of no mechanic we bring that effigy into play that just seems to stand around doing nothing. Effigies burn and I’m assuming the guys down there like fire so how about the closer the effigy is to the boss the more burning damage he does with his whip (closer the effigy is you can see more flames on the whip idk?) so there 1 guy who now needs to kite or keep the effigy away from the boss. Hell we can make it more intersting by saying if the effigy dies before the boss it explodes violently doing massive damage (idk somewhere around 10k instant dmg and some effects?) so not only will you have to keep it away from the boss you can just kill it to nullify the mechanic. The bosses name is “Slave Driver” so were are the slaves? maybe add some pens around it and do something with that (make him move around to them alot so people dont run 4 warrior 1 mes and stand still to kitten him). I mean this kittens no hard I came up with that kitten idea for an at least somewhat better reworked boss fight using kitten that already exists in the dungeon / not messing with the lore in 2 minutes.

Aeonblade.8709:

Zepidel.5349:

Log in and chop down 5 trees, salvage some junk i had to go get off low level mobs, maybe do a boring easy dungeon, and talk to the laurel vendor. I then receive my anet issued 1 laurel per day. Then Proceed to find a group for fractals a dungeon I have run 9001 times so I can have a shot at a ring and my anet issued 1 pristine relic per day. Look down at my keyboard and think well guess i have no reason to be online anymore till tomorrow, but hey in 2 months ill have a piece of jewelry that is 5% better than the one that took me 5 minutes to get.

This is the endgame in GW2… doing dailies. Who would of thought a company could take one of the worst things introduced in world of warcraft and build a game around it.

Are they ever going to make this game interesting past leveling up and exploring?

Incoming legion of fanboys to tell you this game isn’t for you and you are playing it wrong.

To answer your question: Maybe, but we the players have to keep being vocal about how displeased most of us are with the end game.

shrug Why isn’t it a possibility that the game isn’t for him?

Really dangerous use of the word “most” there anyway.

Hawkian.6580:

Aeonblade.8709:

Zepidel.5349:

Log in and chop down 5 trees, salvage some junk i had to go get off low level mobs, maybe do a boring easy dungeon, and talk to the laurel vendor. I then receive my anet issued 1 laurel per day. Then Proceed to find a group for fractals a dungeon I have run 9001 times so I can have a shot at a ring and my anet issued 1 pristine relic per day. Look down at my keyboard and think well guess i have no reason to be online anymore till tomorrow, but hey in 2 months ill have a piece of jewelry that is 5% better than the one that took me 5 minutes to get.

This is the endgame in GW2… doing dailies. Who would of thought a company could take one of the worst things introduced in world of warcraft and build a game around it.

Are they ever going to make this game interesting past leveling up and exploring?

Incoming legion of fanboys to tell you this game isn’t for you and you are playing it wrong.

To answer your question: Maybe, but we the players have to keep being vocal about how displeased most of us are with the end game.

shrug Why isn’t it a possibility that the game isn’t for him?

Really dangerous use of the word “most” there anyway.

It is possible that the game isn’t for him. However, if the introductory statement is correct, that the end game is nothing more than doing your daily achievements (which I don’t think it is.) then I have to ask, who is it for? I have great difficulty imagining that there are enough people itching to chop down 6.66 digital trees every day to support the game.

For me, my end game is WvW, at least for now. I desperately do not want a gear grind / gear treadmill. I’ve never done a raid, so I have absolutely no opinion on them.

Zepidel.5349:

Krosslite.1950:

Zepidel.5349:

Log in and chop down 5 trees, salvage some junk i had to go get off low level mobs, maybe do a boring easy dungeon, and talk to the laurel vendor. I then receive my anet issued 1 laurel per day. Then Proceed to find a group for fractals a dungeon I have run 9001 times so I can have a shot at a ring and my anet issued 1 pristine relic per day. Look down at my keyboard and think well guess i have no reason to be online anymore till tomorrow, but hey in 2 months ill have a piece of jewelry that is 5% better than the one that took me 5 minutes to get.

This is the endgame in GW2… doing dailies. Who would of thought a company could take one of the worst things introduced in world of warcraft and build a game around it.

Are they ever going to make this game interesting past leveling up and exploring?

This is a part of the endgame. The actual end-game people like the OP refuse to even attempt to do, but instead whine.

The end-game of GW2 IS dynamic events; the Living Story; sPvP; and WvW. In other words. The Dragon Bash event going on right now is the end-game.

If you bothered reading…. anyways dungeon gear is obtained in about 20 or so 10 minute dungeon runs. after that all that is needed is dailies. which take 30 days minimum, but most people dont play every single day so they miss laurels. Then if you have more than 1 character or build its back to doing them…

and then after you BiS every slot there’s 0 to do since…. there is no challenging content which would even require said gear. So the last phase of endgame really is dailies. I guess I’m one of those weirdos who likes to be challenged (like in GW1?).

You are the exact type of person that this game is not meant for. The whole mission to you is BiS and what content you can do with BiS. GW2 has no content that requires BiS. NOT EVEN FRACTALS. You can experience every single fractal dungeon without BiS. There is no reason to get BiS, which also means there is no reason to do the dailies for laurels, which also means they ARE NOT REQUIRED and therefore OPTIONAL!

grind in this game , na, that is vertical progression, remember the manifesto guys .

i 100% agree with the tittle of that post , i log in, do the daily, farm my oricalcum, and log off, i have about 2800 hours played, i like the game but i need new maps, class, enemys etc.

Zepidel.5349:

crystal.5930:

bullettohead.9715:

Where’s my achievement/title for 3manning CoE, or going through an arah path with no downs in the party?

I think I’m pretty casual, yet I love that idea. Run, don’t walk, to the Suggestions forum (if you haven’t already). It would be great to see that thought fleshed out a little and offered as a suggestion.

People shouldn’t have to do silly kitten like create difficulty for themselves. This is another bad trend in games these days. For instance in Skyrim I literally had to stop using Blacksmithing/Enchanting/Alchemy because it made the game way to easy. There’s games were a weapon drops early on that makes the game extremely easy (dark souls). We shouldn’t have to force ourselves to not use something within the games mechanics to be challenged.

Lets take CoF P1.

I’ve ran this crappy dungeon at least 100 times and I still don’t know what the 1st boss mechanic is, mostly because it a faceroll like 99% of all bosses in the game. So how about instead of no mechanic we bring that effigy into play that just seems to stand around doing nothing. Effigies burn and I’m assuming the guys down there like fire so how about the closer the effigy is to the boss the more burning damage he does with his whip (closer the effigy is you can see more flames on the whip idk?) so there 1 guy who now needs to kite or keep the effigy away from the boss. Hell we can make it more intersting by saying if the effigy dies before the boss it explodes violently doing massive damage (idk somewhere around 10k instant dmg and some effects?) so not only will you have to keep it away from the boss you can just kill it to nullify the mechanic. The bosses name is “Slave Driver” so were are the slaves? maybe add some pens around it and do something with that (make him move around to them alot so people dont run 4 warrior 1 mes and stand still to kitten him). I mean this kittens no hard I came up with that kitten idea for an at least somewhat better reworked boss fight using kitten that already exists in the dungeon / not messing with the lore in 2 minutes.

His idea appeals to me because it adds options. It add achievements for those who want to do them, and potentially adds incentive for people looking for more challenge, without changing the game for all those who are just fine with the level of challenge the way it is. Plus, I was intrigued by the implication of one of his examples that referred to dungeon runs with less than five people, presumably without scaling.

Ok i have to ask cause i find you people who say this game isn’t for you to be really amusing. What is left for us to do? What are we doing wrong? Apparently you know more about this game than we do so please share in your knowledge of what else there is to do, because from my opinion other than pvp the original writer described this game perfectly. But no offence to anyone pvp requires no skill to play it is simple math: WVW larger server > smaller server. and spvp i have never played before played recently i have 186 top stats and have played 190 games. I know i screwed around more that 3/4s the time. SO ITS NOT SKILL!

Smjert.2869:

The real problem here is that the latest mmorpg tends to be more and more single players online than actual mmo. Honestly a game that basicly lets you finish it all in solo it’s not an mmo.

Depends what you mean by soloing. If you mean not specifically grouped well I’d disagree primarily because of the dynamic events which are group events where you don’t need to be specifically grouped.

IMHO some form of dynamic events for the open world is the way forward for mmos and leave quests only for the story. GW2 would be a better game and genuinely revolutionary if the open world was all dynamic events apart from the personal story instancing.

Zepidel.5349:

Log in and chop down 5 trees, salvage some junk i had to go get off low level mobs, maybe do a boring easy dungeon, and talk to the laurel vendor. I then receive my anet issued 1 laurel per day. Then Proceed to find a group for fractals a dungeon I have run 9001 times so I can have a shot at a ring and my anet issued 1 pristine relic per day. Look down at my keyboard and think well guess i have no reason to be online anymore till tomorrow, but hey in 2 months ill have a piece of jewelry that is 5% better than the one that took me 5 minutes to get.

This is the endgame in GW2… doing dailies. Who would of thought a company could take one of the worst things introduced in world of warcraft and build a game around it.

Are they ever going to make this game interesting past leveling up and exploring?

WvW.

Come have some fun.

lover.8351:

Zepidel.5349:

Log in and chop down 5 trees, salvage some junk i had to go get off low level mobs, maybe do a boring easy dungeon, and talk to the laurel vendor. I then receive my anet issued 1 laurel per day. Then Proceed to find a group for fractals a dungeon I have run 9001 times so I can have a shot at a ring and my anet issued 1 pristine relic per day. Look down at my keyboard and think well guess i have no reason to be online anymore till tomorrow, but hey in 2 months ill have a piece of jewelry that is 5% better than the one that took me 5 minutes to get.

This is the endgame in GW2… doing dailies. Who would of thought a company could take one of the worst things introduced in world of warcraft and build a game around it.

Are they ever going to make this game interesting past leveling up and exploring?

WvW.

Come have some fun.

I’ve have to pass on playing musical objectives / kill the poor guy trying to get to the zerg. I prefer somewhat balanced PvP (SPvP), and there is 0 incentive to do WvWvW unless i want +5% more crafting xp. That and im too spoiled by having played games that did open world objective based PvP the right way.

Smjert.2869:

The real problem here is that the latest mmorpg tends to be more and more single players online than actual mmo. Honestly a game that basicly lets you finish it all in solo it’s not an mmo.
And people that wants to achieve that without playing with others should go and play single players not MMO.

It’s absurd that some people doesn’t understand that mmo content should never finish, simply because most of the time the content should be created by the players themselves, by their interactions and “frictions”.
Though again, the latest mmo remove the ability to do so (we are all in this kind of paradise where only the mobs are evil), and you have to rely only on the content given. Then it’s obvious that contents finishes.

I didn’t played GW1 so i don’t know how stuff “should” evolve in GW2, but i’m sure GW1 doesn’t follow my points.
I mean, a game that is called “Guild, Wars”, where are these guild wars? where’s this competition that can create content?
Until we have the kind of goals everyone tends to (i want the best gear, i’m all colored in white/black/gold whatever. I did all the achievement etc) content will finish fast (or boring and a grind fest).
I respect who likes to play towards that but it’s not definitely for me.

Though i want you to reflect about this: why you have to come to an MMO to have some bunch of pixels and colors.. thing that can be given by any single player. An MMO should be expected to give social interaction between players and well different goals, group goals… but the current rewards (or the missing things to do as a guild) are not enough.

Imho we should have lived in a open world pvp area from the start, with just some safe zones for the people to start (or people that doesn’t want to pvp, but with their pve can contribute to pvp people).
Then it would have been another game and not GW2 probably, i know, but this is (part) of why we are in this status imho.

I agree 100%. But you would be amazed how many anti-social people play MMO’s (yeah). They are too afraid/inept to ask around or look for a group for a specific dungeon. But it seems every game nowadays tries to cater to everyone, and what happens is the game feels very watered down and its just an unpleasant experience for PvP or PvE centric players. So niche games are becoming a thing of the past.

Thief 4 is the most recent shining example of this, as someone who played all the previous games I almost cried watching the new gameplay trailers.

I love how some people just use some set phrases to argue.

What if I love this game combat system, graphic style, classes, world, dungeons, fractals, pvp, wvw, customization, skills, lore… but I don’t like dailies because I find them boring and nonsensical and I like, instead, challenging content and I feel that BiS gear should be awarded for this kind of content? Isn’t this game for me?

I love this game, I just think we should be awarded more for hard content instead of repeating every day the same trivial tasks.

Stop saying this game isn’t for me, I can chose myself what games to play.

i find myself playing like the OP lately.
Log in, check dailies, check dragon spawns, finish the dailies and log off.

I don’t hate the game (more than 1.5k hours,), i just can’t be bothered to do anything else. Most of that time i’m also altabbed, looking stuff on youtube or posting here, while waiting for an event to start.

The enthusiasms is gone, yet i don’t want to quit and “fall behind” . So i sit tight, wait for new content/expansion and stockpile laurels (140 now) :\

Aegis.9724:

i find myself playing like the OP lately.
Log in, check dailies, check dragon spawns, finish the dailies and log off.

I don’t hate the game (more than 1.5k hours,), i just can’t be bothered to do anything else. Most of that time i’m also altabbed, looking stuff on youtube or posting here, while waiting for an event to start.

The enthusiasms is gone, yet i don’t want to quit and “fall behind” . So i sit tight, wait for new content/expansion and stockpile laurels (140 now) :\

knowing anets track record in gw2 if any new ascended type gear gets released they will introduce a whole new currency and your laurels will be null.

perche.3215:

grind in this game , na, that is vertical progression, remember the manifesto guys .

i 100% agree with the tittle of that post , i log in, do the daily, farm my oricalcum, and log off, i have about 2800 hours played, i like the game but i need new maps, class, enemys etc.

The manifesto didn’t mention vertical progression at all. It talked about grind in a completely different way. It talked about “this boring grind to get to the fun stuff”, such as leveling up before you can raid. They wanted to give people fun stuff to do RIGHT AWAY in the game, like the Shadow Behemoth encounter. The line after was “We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one likes it, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way people view combat”.

The first instance of the word grind defined what Colin was talking about. Nowhere in that paragraph did people talk about grinding for gear or anything else.

In fact, before launch there was more than one interview where Eric Flannum said that there would be things to grind for the in the game for people who enjoyed that play style.

I really wish people would stop invoking the manifesto, which is, like all manifestos, a statement of intent, nothing more.

The issue with dailies that many people gripe about is with laurels and how they are a much needed currency for some parts of the game to get BiS gear (which might affect you by around 5-6% more stat gain).

The daily laurel ingame is just a primary, but not necessarily the only, item that you need to acquire laurels. There was talk a while ago at how achievements could be traded in for laurels. I’m just waiting for that time to come.

Vayne.8563:

The manifesto didn’t mention vertical progression at all. It talked about grind in a completely different way. It talked about “this boring grind to get to the fun stuff”, such as leveling up before you can raid. They wanted to give people fun stuff to do RIGHT AWAY in the game, like the Shadow Behemoth encounter.

Thats rather ironic given that SB is on a rather lengthy timetable. I didn’t actually get to do the event until long long after I finished queensdale. In those early days you actually had to be lucky to be at that part of the map when he came up.

Vayne.8563:

The line after was “We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one likes it, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way people view combat”.

The first instance of the word grind defined what Colin was talking about. Nowhere in that paragraph did people talk about grinding for gear or anything else.

You’ve been comprehensively dismantled on this issue in that other thread so much so I’m surprised you would want to bring it up again.

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

The manifesto didn’t mention vertical progression at all. It talked about grind in a completely different way. It talked about “this boring grind to get to the fun stuff”, such as leveling up before you can raid. They wanted to give people fun stuff to do RIGHT AWAY in the game, like the Shadow Behemoth encounter.

Thats rather ironic given that SB is on a rather lengthy timetable. I didn’t actually get to do the event until long long after I finished queensdale. In those early days you actually had to be lucky to be at that part of the map when he came up.

Vayne.8563:

The line after was “We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one likes it, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way people view combat”.

The first instance of the word grind defined what Colin was talking about. Nowhere in that paragraph did people talk about grinding for gear or anything else.

You’ve been comprehensively dismantled on this issue in that other thread so much so I’m surprised you would want to bring it up again.

As long as people continue to bring up the manifesto and try to throw gear grind into the equation, I’ll post what I see as the truth (and it’s pretty obviously the truth if you actually know how to read).

I don’t actually care if people are tired of it, because I’m tired of people bringing up the manifesto. It doesn’t further any conversation, it’s demonstrably false criticism anyway, and it’s pointless.

Hopefully people will stop bringing it up, because it clouds the issues rather than clarifies them.

It’s clear issues like this occurs when you have played too much.

You’ve beaten the game, seen this done that, but still linger for some sense of attachment or boredom otherwise. You hope to find some nonexistent new thing that you haven’t done but there are only so much.

So now you wait for updates eagerly thinking, hey maybe they’ll add new skills or new maps or change something about the gameplay, but alas such are reserved for expansions and take a considerable amount of work to create, test, and establish. In the mean time you can enjoy the beautiful fireworks. I’ll be right beside ya.

Smjert.2869:

Krosslite.1950:

Smjert.2869:

The real problem here is that the latest mmorpg tends to be more and more single players online than actual mmo. Honestly a game that basicly lets you finish it all in solo it’s not an mmo.

This is far as I got in your response.

A MMO which was originally called a MUD. Never demanded it be team centered. The believe in that it must be is nieave and sort sighted.

MUDs were social oriented like going to LA to chat or roleplay. Most people usually soloed the mobs in those. Then time to time a GM would bring in a big mob for everyone to fight in an open world event.

GW2 is more like these original game then what MMOs are today.

All MMO means is Massive Multi-player Online.

This game has it all and to even to imply otherwise is again nieave and uninformed

First of all comparing the MUDs with MMO games like GW2 is a fail, sorry.

First off you are again totally in the wrong per Wikipedia:

“The term MMORPG was coined by Richard Garriott, the creator of Ultima Online, in 1997.¹¹ Previous to this and related coinages, these games were generally called graphical MUDs; the history of MMORPGs traces back directly through the MUD genre”

“The origin and influence on MMORPG games stems from MUDs, Dungeons and Dragons and earlier social games”

“Many MUDs are still active and a number of influential MMORPG designers, such as Raph Koster, Brad McQuaid,¹⁰ Matt Firor, Mark Jacobs, Brian Green,¹¹ and J. Todd Coleman, began as MUD developers and/or players. The history of MMORPGs grows directly out of the history of MUDs”

so any further statements you have are full of false info and do not need to be read.

Actually the Daily concept failed. Most players feel forced to do all dailies..

the system should rather be that we CAN choose 5 of them all. (like it is supposed to be) and u will NOT BE AWARDED with achievement points / exp w/e for the other ones.

so that is the true way that everyone can do what they want every day…

Shakki.3219:

Actually the Daily concept failed. Most players feel forced to do all dailies..

the system should rather be that we CAN choose 5 of them all. (like it is supposed to be) and u will NOT BE AWARDED with achievement points / exp w/e for the other ones.

so that is the true way that everyone can do what they want every day…

How do you know what most players feel? From my guild anyway, most players barely even think about dailies. There are a whole lot of people who just play the game and if they get the daily they’re happy and if they don’t, they don’t.

Please try not to talk for most players.

The dailies would have been so much better if they were directly copied from GW1 dailies :’(

Vayne.8563:

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

The manifesto didn’t mention vertical progression at all. It talked about grind in a completely different way. It talked about “this boring grind to get to the fun stuff”, such as leveling up before you can raid. They wanted to give people fun stuff to do RIGHT AWAY in the game, like the Shadow Behemoth encounter.

Thats rather ironic given that SB is on a rather lengthy timetable. I didn’t actually get to do the event until long long after I finished queensdale. In those early days you actually had to be lucky to be at that part of the map when he came up.

Vayne.8563:

The line after was “We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one likes it, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way people view combat”.

The first instance of the word grind defined what Colin was talking about. Nowhere in that paragraph did people talk about grinding for gear or anything else.

You’ve been comprehensively dismantled on this issue in that other thread so much so I’m surprised you would want to bring it up again.

As long as people continue to bring up the manifesto and try to throw gear grind into the equation, I’ll post what I see as the truth (and it’s pretty obviously the truth if you actually know how to read).

I don’t actually care if people are tired of it, because I’m tired of people bringing up the manifesto. It doesn’t further any conversation, it’s demonstrably false criticism anyway, and it’s pointless.

Hopefully people will stop bringing it up, because it clouds the issues rather than clarifies them.

Ya lets just close our eyes and ears and forget about all those stupid promises that made us buy the game, lets also forget about that terrible game that came out in 2005!

Wait, there is endgame beyond grinding for a legendary or spending more of your RL cash for a chance of finding new skins to make your character look different from everyone else? Fractals is a bit too repetative to really be any kind of endgame imo.

I miss DoA, FoW, UW, Urgoz, The Deep, Tombs, etc.

Zepidel.5349:

Vayne.8563:

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

The manifesto didn’t mention vertical progression at all. It talked about grind in a completely different way. It talked about “this boring grind to get to the fun stuff”, such as leveling up before you can raid. They wanted to give people fun stuff to do RIGHT AWAY in the game, like the Shadow Behemoth encounter.

Thats rather ironic given that SB is on a rather lengthy timetable. I didn’t actually get to do the event until long long after I finished queensdale. In those early days you actually had to be lucky to be at that part of the map when he came up.

Vayne.8563:

The line after was “We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one likes it, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way people view combat”.

The first instance of the word grind defined what Colin was talking about. Nowhere in that paragraph did people talk about grinding for gear or anything else.

You’ve been comprehensively dismantled on this issue in that other thread so much so I’m surprised you would want to bring it up again.

As long as people continue to bring up the manifesto and try to throw gear grind into the equation, I’ll post what I see as the truth (and it’s pretty obviously the truth if you actually know how to read).

I don’t actually care if people are tired of it, because I’m tired of people bringing up the manifesto. It doesn’t further any conversation, it’s demonstrably false criticism anyway, and it’s pointless.

Hopefully people will stop bringing it up, because it clouds the issues rather than clarifies them.

Ya lets just close our eyes and ears and forget about all those stupid promises that made us buy the game, lets also forget about that terrible game that came out in 2005!

Actually, they didn’t make the “stupid promises” people are saying they made and if people would learn English, they’d realize that.

Hint: Taking a line out of context and using it to mean what you want it to mean is exactly what politicians and lawyers do. The most commonly misquoted portion of the manifesto is the words “We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2”. Unfortunately, that came a couple of lines after Anet defined the grind they were talking about.

“In most games there’s this boring grind before you can get to the fun stuff.” The paragraph ends with the words “We want to change the way people view combat.”

The line wasn’t about gear grind at all, even though people who take it out of context claim it is. They’re using the traditional (original) usage of grind as in grinding for levels. As long as people continue to misquote, I’ll continue to correct.

>A manifesto is a published verbal declaration of the intentions, motives, or views of the issuer, be it an individual, group, political party or government.¹²³ A manifesto usually accepts a previously published opinion or public consensus and/or promotes a new idea with prescriptive notions for carrying out changes the author believes should be made. It often is political or artistic in nature, but may present an individual’s life stance. Manifestos relating to religious belief are generally referred to as creeds.

Regardless of what they decided to call their pre-release video showcasing the game it still counts as a promise in my book or at the very least false advertising. But you know what Warhammer did the SAME EXACT thing. There no difference between this here thread on the gw2 forums and many many many many others I seen on the Warhammer forums were people linked to videos of the Warhammer dev diaries and then said “see look they didn’t do anything they said they were!” I’m sure most post WoW MMO’s did the same same. Still its really shady to get people on the hype train with false advertising / saying you are going to do something then do a 180 tailspin on it.

so idk idc anymore lol

Vayne.8563:

The line wasn’t about gear grind at all, even though people who take it out of context claim it is. They’re using the traditional (original) usage of grind as in grinding for levels. As long as people continue to misquote, I’ll continue to correct.

There’s no point debating this, you’ve been proved wrong on this issue.

It would have been better if they were weekly instead of daily.

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

The line wasn’t about gear grind at all, even though people who take it out of context claim it is. They’re using the traditional (original) usage of grind as in grinding for levels. As long as people continue to misquote, I’ll continue to correct.

There’s no point debating this, you’ve been proved wrong on this issue.

Umm no. I’ve not been proved wrong. I’ve had a couple of people say that I was wrong, so I contacted a few of my old colleagues just to make sure. Eight in all. Asked them…editors/writers. Every single one of them agreed with me.

You can’t change the interpretation of a word once it’s defined in a document just because you want to.

And people who have an agenda, me or them, shouldn’t be believed out of hand. That’s why I asked an outside source for verification.

I agree. ascended amulets are just so kitten hard to get. I mean come on Anet, 50 kills? 1 champion kill? 5 events? PLAY THE GAME? kitten that, that’s GRINDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elthurien.8356:

It would have been better if they were weekly instead of daily.

This is probably going to be anets 1st sensible step in the right direction. This will fix issues with people who are only able to play on weekends etc… But I’d still rather only see it by a monthly basis or even better by doing real and challenging endgame content. I’t doesnt have to be uber hard dungeons? Why not the jumping puzzle from hell? Or instead of putting out this crappy temp content they put out monthly challenging and fun quest lines that rewards things like laurels?

Smjert.2869:

I didn’t played GW1 so i don’t know how stuff “should” evolve in GW2, but i’m sure GW1 doesn’t follow my points.
I mean, a game that is called “Guild, Wars”, where are these guild wars? where’s this competition that can create content?

because you have no idea what you’re comparing GW2 to, let me inform you

GW1 was an instanced MMO

The Guild Wars, were fights between guilds.

Sinoran.9140:

I agree. ascended amulets are just so kitten hard to get. I mean come on Anet, 50 kills? 1 champion kill? 5 events? PLAY THE GAME? kitten that, that’s GRINDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT IS, if there was no laurels do you really think you would log on and say hmmmmm I really feel like chopping down 30 trees real fast then vendoring all the mats because they are worthless. OR hmmmm i feel like buying a bunch of cheap mats off the auction house and making 10 of a useless item. Or hmmmmmmm I feel like going to say hi to my favorite vendor!

I stopped doing daillies once I got my ascended stuff and they made them more annoying to complete.

I feel free.

A game shouldn’t feel like a job, I spend my time having fun in gw2 rather than meaningless stuff. I make my own objective for the day. If I feel like playing warframe or another game, I can. I am not trapped into spending that time on daillies.

In other words, daillies can go die in a house fire <3.

Sahfur.5612:

I stopped doing daillies once I got my ascended stuff and they made them more annoying to complete.

I feel free.

A game shouldn’t feel like a job, I spend my time having fun in gw2 rather than meaningless stuff. I make my own objective for the day. If I feel like playing warframe or another game, I can. I am not trapped into spending that time on daillies.

In other words, daillies can go die in a house fire <3.

Personally I don’t consider dailies a job. Now running a guild. That is a job. Dailies in no way compare. They are just time killers to me and relaxing

Resonance.4216:

Smjert.2869:

I didn’t played GW1 so i don’t know how stuff “should” evolve in GW2, but i’m sure GW1 doesn’t follow my points.
I mean, a game that is called “Guild, Wars”, where are these guild wars? where’s this competition that can create content?

because you have no idea what you’re comparing GW2 to, let me inform you

GW1 was an instanced MMO

The Guild Wars, were fights between guilds.

Shouldn’t have even wasted your time responding. This person has no idea what they are talking about period