Guild Wars 2

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Ashen.2907:

1) I commented on elitism. Giving preference to one person because they are superior, or perceived to be so, in some way to an alternative is a form of elitism.

2) Intruding on a group in contradiction of its clearly stated goals and desires is rude and selfish. The community theater across the street from my home advertises ballroom dancing on the first wednesday of each month. It would be very rude and selfish of me to walk in and start square dancing.

5) If there is a word that you do not know being used then you should know to ask. If you are not willing to ask a question in a situation where you know that you are not in the know the consequences are your own.

Of course the expectation is in the mind. It is in the mind of the person who formed the group and labeled the LFG according to that expectation. It is in the minds of those who join a group so labeled. It should be in the mind of anyone seeking to join that group. This is not significantly different than a group labeled as needing one more for HotW and having someone join with the intention of doing AC. If the player doesn’t know what HOTW means he knows that he doesnt know, and has the option to ask. The same is true with a team advertising for a zerker. If a player doesnt know what the word zerker means he knows that he doesnt know and can ask. If I say to you, “Yggdrasil stands tall,” and you do not know what Yggdrasil means you will immediately know so and could ask.

I think that you are over psychoanalyzing the individuals looking for a faster path to game rewards. “Sometimes a cigar,” I mean an advertisement for a speed run, “is just a cigar,” I mean an attempt to complete an objective a bit faster.

#1: Guess again. Elitism is not based on preferences of performance, but exclusion of perceived deficiencies. The word itself is based on the notions of privilege being separated into the sole ruling class, and thus always manifests as an exclusion by standards. There is no “pick A or pick B” option in elitism, only a “don’t pick A”.

#2: As far as these people know and experience, the title is meaningless and thus garners no further expectations, because no one respects them anyway.

#3:You misunderstand how potent a lack of knowledge can be. Because they don’t know what the word means, they don’t know if it is important enough to ask about. The title might as well be the collection of random gibberish that spews out of map chat, and no one cares about that stuff. People go through life encountering unimportant words that have absolutely no impact on their life, and thus aren’t worth learning. Yggdrasil is one of those words.

The whole point of the list is the fact that, no, the speed expectation is not in the mind of people who join up on these groups, nor in the mind of people seeking to join these groups. Hell, sometimes it isn’t even in the mind of the people who form the groups, because they’ll just copy/paste what they see, or they’ll inherit the group from someone else who used those tags and don’t care to change them. While you have done a good job of saying that you hate people who do this, this doesn’t suddenly make it not true.

1) A preference of performance is an exclusion of perceived deficiency.

2) You are mistaken.

3) If you want to do something and that something is labeled as requiring, “X,” of you to participate then you know that it is important enough to ask the definition. A word that is listed as a barrier between you and your desires is by definition not unimportant (unless your desires are unimportant to you) to you and by definition has an impact on your life (at least insofar as the game does).

Are you sure that the speed expectation is not in the minds of the people who type that they are looking for a party composition that exists primarily for speed runs ? Are you sure that the speed expectation is not in the minds of the people who choose to join a group labeled as needing more speed run oriented builds ? What leads you to believe that you know the content of the thoughts of complete strangers, most of whom you have never met, sufficiently to justify an argument that contradicts the facts at hand.

For what it is worth, I do not hate anyone for their behavior in forming groups, joining groups, etc. I don’t hate people for being rude nor do I hate people for being elitists.

Iluth.6875:

I dont get why people want to control the pugging experience though. If you hate pugging, play with friends?

PuGging is about convenience, first, last and always. It can be inconvenient to have to wait for friends to log on or a guild group to form. The LFG tool allows for something very close to an on-demand experience. People advertise group requirements because they expect to have a smoother, more convenient run. People misrepresent their gear because they want the convenience of a faster run, without using gear they find inconvenient — or for a variety of other reasons mostly having to do with what’s convenient for them.

Convenience has become serious business in online games. That’s why people want to “control” PugGing.

You don’t really need this for dungeons. It’s blatantly obvious when someone is not doing the damage they’re supposed to even if they pinged berserker gear and you can just kick them, problem solved. However, if Anet decides to get more large group content, more difficult raids then I could see a use in it.

A personal DPS meter would be nice and should avoid at least a fraction of the tears created by this tool. As much as I like the guys and gals from DnT for figuring out the best builds and rotations to use, it’d make build crafting in the future much easier.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

God Of Mustard.6354:

Abridged to save space

#1: They wouldn’t be sad if people weren’t being so retentive over the issue. Quality of life aside, there is a very strong anti-elitism presence in the game, and without proper population policing tools, what option is there other than to make them feel as unwelcome as possible? As far as they consider it, their sabotage is done for the greater good of the game. Without any additional principles to guide them, you’ll see exactly how far your standard man is willing to negotiate with the devil.

#2: Kicking for forming requirements in groups and standard expectations when entering a group environment have very little to do with each other. You have to understand, for many people the prospect of a full zerk party has absolutely no qualitative meaning, and thus garners no more respect than writing in a bathroom stall.

#3: This doesn’t have to deal with being carried at all. Those players can be fully self sufficient in their gear choice, but not self sufficient in others. It is counterproductive to make someone wear armor that they can’t function in, because then is when they truly have to be carried.

#4: If they differ in aspects, then they aren’t the same. There again, is a difference here, where one joins with the sole expectation to learn to not be carried. Temporary sacrifice for the greater good. Besides, forming a learning dungeon party doesn’t work, because then they’ll just get a bunch of other people who don’t know what to do, and they’ll learn nothing from their deaths. It is that strange kafkaesque paradox where, to learn to run dungeons in zerker gear, you have to already be able to run dungeons in zerker gear.

#5: As much as I wish this were rare, I find out surprisingly often that it isn’t. GW2 is a multi-national game filled with all levels of devotion to the game. Not everyone is going to pass far enough into the culture of the game and through the language barrier to know that “zerk” means berserker gear, or that “GC” means berserker gear.

Your prospects on diagnosing the problem are dubious at best. When the issue is “why do people join up zerk groups but not in zerk”, this can only be the case when said group is already advertised as “zerk”. If it is not labeled as such, then it is not such. To have elaborate expectations about a party, but don’t indicate or demand these expectations is to be truly irrational.

Likewise, I myself am a zerk player, and I still denounce the evils of elitism regularly. This is because I understand that other people will play differently, and my higher risk for performance is an unnecessary choice that I have made.

#1: If that’s the case, than the need for gear inspections should be clear as day. We, the zerk community, shouldn’t have to suffer because other people hate on us and wish to ruin our runs. Thats like saying “people on Wallstreet should all be burned” just because someone didn’t happen to get the job they wanted there. They have standards. So do we. Purging people from parties should be allowed, if that’s the case. They’re ruining the experience of the run.

#2: Same case as #1. If they’re going to purposely disrespect the wishes of the host, they should be kicked. Removing those people should be promoted, simply because of their rudeness.

#3: The point of a zerk party is to get people who are good with ZERK to form parties. Did we say that we wanted a good PVT player to join us? Admittedly, a good PVT player is more desirable than a bad zerk player. However, to zerk parties, a good zerk player is better than any other choice.

#4: I guess i’m unique in the fact that I actually think about why I wiped on a run… If its really is that common, then they should inform the party of their intentions. It’s more polite. And about your point on “the objective is to not be carried” part… a zerk LFG isn’t a party that will run with each other after the dungeon is done. There is no benefit to the other members of the group. And also, running in PVT gear or Clerics really isn’t a substitute for experience with zerk runs. The strategies can and probably will differ. Example – Lupi.

#5: The language barriers is why we now have little flags on the LFG, right? And if we had the ability to inspect gear and inform the user of the gear, there would be little problem.

Lastly, if you had read my post at all, you would have realized that I mentioned “LFG labels” a lot. A LOT. I never claimed that an unlabeled LFG should automatically be zerk. That is indeed irrational. Please reread my post before you assume things. Thank you.

runeblade.7514:

Iluth.6875:

A Massive Headache.1879:

cuz i hate people who lie about the gear they use.

I dont get why people want to control the pugging experience though. If you hate pugging, play with friends?

I don’t get why people want to control my pugging experience. If you don’t like how I pug, play with friends?

I don’t get why people are so insistent on either slowing, or in some cases, ruining my pug experience. If you don’t meet the criteria i’m asking for, don’t join my pug.

A Massive Headache.1879:

runeblade.7514:

Iluth.6875:

A Massive Headache.1879:

cuz i hate people who lie about the gear they use.

I dont get why people want to control the pugging experience though. If you hate pugging, play with friends?

I don’t get why people want to control my pugging experience. If you don’t like how I pug, play with friends?

I don’t get why people are so insistent on either slowing, or in some cases, ruining my pug experience. If you don’t meet the criteria i’m asking for, don’t join my pug.

Agreed 100%

+9001 likes

runeblade.7514:

Iluth.6875:

A Massive Headache.1879:

cuz i hate people who lie about the gear they use.

I dont get why people want to control the pugging experience though. If you hate pugging, play with friends?

I don’t get why people want to control my pugging experience. If you don’t like how I pug, play with friends?

He said, she said. At this point, who the kitten cares? People like you highlight why such tools should not be introduced.

runeblade.7514:

Iluth.6875:

A Massive Headache.1879:

cuz i hate people who lie about the gear they use.

I dont get why people want to control the pugging experience though. If you hate pugging, play with friends?

I don’t get why people want to control my pugging experience. If you don’t like how I pug, play with friends?

You are missing the point, I think, which is that you can not expect to control ‘the pugging experience’, at all. A pickup group will never give you control over how your party performs (even though it might perform well).

Seriously, this thread has gotten to that point in time which I stated 5 days ago. I’ll quote myself.

Azrael.4960:

Can a moderator close this already? This is just going to end up being yet another

“I play this way in a group I form and I want like minded players only. You can play your way if you form your own group with no conditions attached”

sort of thread, which usually descends into the standard elitist vs. casuals, zerk vs non zerk arguments that happen every few days.

So I repeat, can a moderator close this now?

Azrael.4960:

Seriously, this thread has gotten to that point in time which I stated 5 days ago. I’ll quote myself.

Azrael.4960:

Can a moderator close this already? This is just going to end up being yet another

“I play this way in a group I form and I want like minded players only. You can play your way if you form your own group with no conditions attached”

sort of thread, which usually descends into the standard elitist vs. casuals, zerk vs non zerk arguments that happen every few days.

So I repeat, can a moderator close this now?

No one is forcing you to read this or comment on it, so why are you trying to remove this discussion?

The discussion is actually remaining pretty polite, with an extremely informative spread of different viewpoints and perspectives on the issues of PUG friendliness and functionality.

You are not the Original Poster, Azrael, and have no right to demand the closing of a discussion just because you happen to not like it.

frans.8092:

runeblade.7514:

Iluth.6875:

A Massive Headache.1879:

cuz i hate people who lie about the gear they use.

I dont get why people want to control the pugging experience though. If you hate pugging, play with friends?

I don’t get why people want to control my pugging experience. If you don’t like how I pug, play with friends?

You are missing the point, I think, which is that you can not expect to control ‘the pugging experience’, at all. A pickup group will never give you control over how your party performs (even though it might perform well).

a PUG is only as bad as the people that form it, especially if it is one that has constraints, such as gearing requirements, class requests, or even simply what path of a dungeon to run. If you want to run AC path 1, don’t join a group advertising CM Path 3 – that’s the same disrespect to the host of the party as failing to heed his requests. Also, don’t join a group looking for a taxi to a gold-running Pavillion if you just want to wander Dredgehaunt cliffs (Especially if you get 3 other friends to join his group as well, preventing him from getting the requested party-based service).

Deliberately joining a PUG that is picking up a specific type/style of player that does not describe you is deliberate griefing.

There’s only no control over a PUG if there’s no way to filter who joins and who doesn’t. Anet’s trying to keep the game civil, but it’s important for people to honor LFG requests and constraints, and put all metagame grievances aside. Dishonorable griefing of the LFG system is a much worse metagame crime than zerkerstack farms.

I dont think this will ever happen good luck though

Aidan Savage.2078:

runeblade.7514:

Iluth.6875:

A Massive Headache.1879:

cuz i hate people who lie about the gear they use.

I dont get why people want to control the pugging experience though. If you hate pugging, play with friends?

I don’t get why people want to control my pugging experience. If you don’t like how I pug, play with friends?

He said, she said. At this point, who the kitten cares? People like you highlight why such tools should not be introduced.

People like you highlight why such tools needs to be introduced.

It boggles my mind that people will join “zerk only” groups when they have no desire or ability to play with zerk only gear. It’s like taking an AP history class in highschool when you have no desire to read or write.

If you want to claim people are being elitist simply because they want to finish dungeon content in the fastest way possible, your anger is is misdirected. Blame ANet for its extremely shallow dungeon/boss design and its inability to change the DPS-fest PvE meta. I’m really sorry that your Healing Power build isn’t as efficient or useful as a zerk build, but that’s not the fault of the players. Stop blaming them for wanting to finish ANet’s dungeons quickly and stop demanding they accept your inefficient build into a speedrun.

That all being said, DPS meters and inspect options aren’t necessarily bad options. Since ANet insists on its DPS-only PvE philosophy, why not give players the means to form and enforce the types of groups that they want. Heck, if I was creating an Olympic 4×100 relay team, I wouldn’t try to choose my runners without the help of a timing system to measure performance.

Didn’t read the thread. Don’t need to read the thread. Just no.

No to damage meters and especially to player inspection.

Seras.5702:

Didn’t read the thread. Don’t need to read the thread. Just no.

No to damage meters and especially to player inspection.

Excellent and well-thought arguments.

Personally I’d like some way to test damage dealt, healing applied, damage evaded, ect, for my own personal use. Without them it’s difficult to tell the true strength of what you’re using, which is very important in a game based so much around fine tuning the slightest things.

Even if we had something as simple as master of damage from GW1 (basically a test dummy that would tell your highest damage, damage over time, ect), and maybe a few others that would test other stats like your survivability, I’d be happy with it.

Wethospu.6437:

Seras.5702:

Didn’t read the thread. Don’t need to read the thread. Just no.

No to damage meters and especially to player inspection.

Excellent and well-thought arguments.

This topic has been debated in this forum by me and plenty of others so many times that I just didn’t have the energy to reiterate things that’ve already been said. I chimed in to offer my opinion, simply to add another voice to the crowd screaming “NO!” If you need my reasons, I’m sure they were mentioned somewhere in the last 5 pages. If not, search for the last time this topic was brought up.

Bri.8354:

Personally I’d like some way to test damage dealt, healing applied, damage evaded, ect, for my own personal use. Without them it’s difficult to tell the true strength of what you’re using, which is very important in a game based so much around fine tuning the slightest things.

This is about where I am on the topic. Sometimes I want to check the effectiveness of a build, but enemies out in the wild often die too quickly or take too long, and it’s hard to test things scientifically. It’d be nice to have a test dummy that gives choices for low/moderate/high toughness along with a dps meter. It’d be even better to have a training ground in the home instance that we could use to test builds against various kinds of creatures with measures of kill time and survivability.

But, I really doubt ANet will ever commit to such a thing. Even other major MMOs I’ve played don’t have actual dps meters. That has always been left to the mod community (Recount et al. for WoW, for example).

As for Inspect, no. If I’m not trying to be rude by sneak-trolling into a zerkspeedrun, no one needs to be investigating my gear. Honestly, I’d rather they ask and start a discussion on gear, build, and tactics, instead of making snap judgments based on how my gear does or doesn’t match what they read on some forum.

runeblade.7514:

Aidan Savage.2078:

runeblade.7514:

Iluth.6875:

A Massive Headache.1879:

cuz i hate people who lie about the gear they use.

I dont get why people want to control the pugging experience though. If you hate pugging, play with friends?

I don’t get why people want to control my pugging experience. If you don’t like how I pug, play with friends?

He said, she said. At this point, who the kitten cares? People like you highlight why such tools should not be introduced.

People like you highlight why such tools needs to be introduced.

Well now you’re just being silly.

Both sides seem have the exact same argument: to use your own words “if you don’t like how I pug, play with friends”. If you don’t want to risk playing with undergeared/bad players, then play with friends / If you don’t want to play with speedrunners that want to check gear and monitor DPS, then play with friends. Sounds like everyone should just play with friends in general? Not bad advice honestly; I’ve pretty much stopped running PUGs all together, or if we PUG it’s usually one person. It’s way better.

The only difference is that adding damage meters and inspection would require effort on Anet’s part, versus having to do nothing at all and the majority of players have no problem with the current system, so honestly why waste the time and effort.

Rauderi.8706:

As for Inspect, no. If I’m not trying to be rude by sneak-trolling into a zerkspeedrun, no one needs to be investigating my gear. Honestly, I’d rather they ask and start a discussion on gear, build, and tactics, instead of making snap judgments based on how my gear does or doesn’t match what they read on some forum.

I really miss /inspect from WoW because i could check out random people’s gear in my downtime, or anytime i saw something cool or different i didn’t recognize.

I was naive, because i had assumed /inspect was a harmless tool for new players and for scoping out different players “under the hood,” if you will.

I had no idea that there was this overwhelming idea that /inspect was used solely for locking people out of groups. Especially since anyone that desires to do that can just make you ping your gear anyway, or someone who meets the group requirements would have no problem being inspected/pinging.

To me it seems like one must be really self-conscious if they are worried about other people looking at their gear…in a game designed around acquiring gear..lol. If i see someone in crap gear, i would naturally assume they are still in the process of gearing up, not that they are a bad player.

Scrambles.2604:

To me it seems like one must be really self-conscious if they are worried about other people looking at their gear…in a game designed around acquiring gear..lol. If i see someone in crap gear, i would naturally assume they are still in the process of gearing up, not that they are a bad player.

There are other possible reasons. Some players have put effort into their builds and don’t want to share. I’d not be surprised if some of the better WvW builds never get posted on build sites or forums. Remember that most games’ inspect feature also allow inspection of traits as well as gear. If I craft a good build, why would I want the enemy players to be able to see it? Let them reverse engineer the build by observing what I do with it, instead.

Then, there are people that prefer keeping their choices to themselves. Some people just prefer greater privacy than others. For them, the idea that anyone can inspect your gear and traits at will is more annoying than embarrassing.

MMO’s are supposed to be social games. If someone wants to know something about how I play, let them ask. Social games should not replace social systems with non-social ones solely for convenience.

Scrambles.2604:

I really miss /inspect from WoW because i could check out random people’s gear in my downtime, or anytime i saw something cool or different i didn’t recognize.

/inspect is a harmless tool for new players and for scoping out different players “under the hood,” if you will.

Again, then why not ask them? Start a conversation. Might even get someone to add to your friends list out of it.
Just the other day, I had someone ask about my mesmer’s Desert Rose back piece that I got from Sanctum Sprint. Didn’t lead to much else in that case, but I was glad to answer the question. Heck, it reminded me that I’d even done the content.

And because chat linking is available, excluding groups already have an appropriate tool for their purposes. There’s not much sense in adding development time on it.

Why didn’t ANet add it from the start, or why would they be wary of including it? Mostly the potential for abuse. [shrug] It’d probably be rare and limited to restrictive groups (dungeon/fractal PUGs, guilds), but I don’t think ANet wants to encourage that kind of mentality.

Sooo.. my “no” stance is really more out of lack of necessity and somewhat mild concerns about jerkface. If /inspect did get included, I’d shrug and move on. Eh.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I would play WS as well, but I can’t bring myself to invest time into another NCSoft product after seeing what happened with GW2.

When you spend more time in the forums complaining (as it appears to be from your post log) then you do playing the game…it’s time for you to step away. Hell, we can’t even be sure that you’ve actually played the game in the last 5 months with all the forum trolling that’s been done.

If you don’t like it, move along, there is nothing binding you to this game. You’ve been smitten in no way whatsoever, by NCSoft, and holding baseless grudges that bind you to the forums is not healthy.

Rauderi.8706:

Scrambles.2604:

I really miss /inspect from WoW because i could check out random people’s gear in my downtime, or anytime i saw something cool or different i didn’t recognize.

/inspect is a harmless tool for new players and for scoping out different players “under the hood,” if you will.

Again, then why not ask them? Start a conversation. Might even get someone to add to your friends list out of it.
Just the other day, I had someone ask about my mesmer’s Desert Rose back piece that I got from Sanctum Sprint. Didn’t lead to much else in that case, but I was glad to answer the question. Heck, it reminded me that I’d even done the content.

And because chat linking is available, excluding groups already have an appropriate tool for their purposes. There’s not much sense in adding development time on it.

Why didn’t ANet add it from the start, or why would they be wary of including it? Mostly the potential for abuse. [shrug] It’d probably be rare and limited to restrictive groups (dungeon/fractal PUGs, guilds), but I don’t think ANet wants to encourage that kind of mentality.

Sooo.. my “no” stance is really more out of lack of necessity and somewhat mild concerns about jerkface. If /inspect did get included, I’d shrug and move on. Eh.

Exactly, people are want the game to be social but they want the ‘Inspect’ command so they can be sneaky and anti-social. Very counter-intuitive.

Rauderi.8706:

Scrambles.2604:

I really miss /inspect from WoW because i could check out random people’s gear in my downtime, or anytime i saw something cool or different i didn’t recognize.

/inspect is a harmless tool for new players and for scoping out different players “under the hood,” if you will.

Again, then why not ask them? Start a conversation. Might even get someone to add to your friends list out of it.
Just the other day, I had someone ask about my mesmer’s Desert Rose back piece that I got from Sanctum Sprint. Didn’t lead to much else in that case, but I was glad to answer the question. Heck, it reminded me that I’d even done the content.

And because chat linking is available, excluding groups already have an appropriate tool for their purposes. There’s not much sense in adding development time on it.

Why didn’t ANet add it from the start, or why would they be wary of including it? Mostly the potential for abuse. [shrug] It’d probably be rare and limited to restrictive groups (dungeon/fractal PUGs, guilds), but I don’t think ANet wants to encourage that kind of mentality.

Sooo.. my “no” stance is really more out of lack of necessity and somewhat mild concerns about jerkface. If /inspect did get included, I’d shrug and move on. Eh.

Yeah it’s easy to ask one person to ping their gear for my curiosity (assuming they aren’t afk or just wont respond), but when you want to casually peep at the people passing by, it becomes a little unreasonable to expect me to message 12-20 people to see their gear. It’s a burden on myself and others.

I feel like the accessibility /inspect offers is more significant a factor than the potential for the abuse. The dev time may not justify it but it’s not my place to prioritize development…obviously WoW though it was worth while and they seem to be doing OK.

Anet left a lot of things out at the start so i don’t think you can just assume whether or not it was intended. Also, i have little to no expectation of them implementing this, DPS meters, dueling, or anything that has ever been suggested on the forums. The past has shown that the few features they do ever implement are a low priority and take a long time to be added.

I just hate seeing resistance to useful, harmless features for the sake of saving the “little guys” from abuse. In conversation it seems like the abuse is constant and wide spread when in reality it only happens a small percentage of the time.

Even looking at a game like LoL, which is almost synonymous with player toxicity, realistically you only meet a jerk in about 1/10 games, which is still a lot, but not as much as you would expect based on what you read about it.

You could either tie the mechanics to party creation. Don’t want to have your dps output or gear/build seen? Then don’t join a group with those mechanics turned on.

Or you can give every player an opt out. Go into settings and turn /allow inspect to off. There you go, no one will ever be able to see your gear or build. But you will be unable to join any group which asks for /inspect and/or dps meters.

The systems could, quite simply, be implemented in such a way as to allow those players who want them, to have access to them. Whilst at the same time allowing those not interested in them the ability to avoid them.

The whole current “but but elitists!!” theme (anti zerkers, anti TP flippers, anti speedrunners, anti meta builds, anti anyone who wants to group with other efficient players) is not only a really, really poor argument. It is also (ironically) exactly the kind of antisocial, toxic crud that those spouting seem to be raising their pitchforks over.

Fenrir.3609:

You could either tie the mechanics to party creation. Don’t want to have your dps output or gear/build seen? Then don’t join a group with those mechanics turned on.

Or you can give every player an opt out. Go into settings and turn /allow inspect to off. There you go, no one will ever be able to see your gear or build. But you will be unable to join any group which asks for /inspect and/or dps meters.

The systems could, quite simply, be implemented in such a way as to allow those players who want them, to have access to them. Whilst at the same time allowing those not interested in them the ability to avoid them.

As always, I’d be in favor of a solution which includes the concerns of more preferences rather than less. I’m not opposed to either feature as long as players can choose to opt-in or not. I believe this would please those who want the features while addressing the concerns of those who don’t.

The only concerns I see not being addressed via this solution would be those who oppose players applying criteria they prefer to parties they’re in. I don’t believe that other players should be obligated to accept me (or anyone else) in a group if we all don’t want to do things the same way. Thus, I don’t view an objection to others using these tools to ensure they get what they want as legitimate.

Regardless of anybody’s opinion on elitism versus anything else.. the fact that this discussion always results in a religion or politics style degradation of debate into sheer passion, ad hominem, and niggling over definitions is reason enough for Anet to steer well clear of the topic.

And reason enough for it not to court the controversy by implementing something that seems to take a stance in game.

Draknar.5748:

so honestly why waste the time and effort.

To let us inspect gear on other people, and let us see our highest dps.

Just because you aren’t using it doesn’t mean someone else won’t.

Here is my full checklist for judging other people’s builds:

1. Do you have a build?
2. Sweet. Let’s go kill the things.

Fenrir.3609:

You could either tie the mechanics to party creation. Don’t want to have your dps output or gear/build seen? Then don’t join a group with those mechanics turned on.

Or you can give every player an opt out. Go into settings and turn /allow inspect to off. There you go, no one will ever be able to see your gear or build. But you will be unable to join any group which asks for /inspect and/or dps meters.

The systems could, quite simply, be implemented in such a way as to allow those players who want them, to have access to them. Whilst at the same time allowing those not interested in them the ability to avoid them.

The whole current “but but elitists!!” theme (anti zerkers, anti TP flippers, anti speedrunners, anti meta builds, anti anyone who wants to group with other efficient players) is not only a really, really poor argument. It is also (ironically) exactly the kind of antisocial, toxic crud that those spouting seem to be raising their pitchforks over.

I don’t have a problem with it being done this way. It would allow a zerker group to form up and people who joined it would have to agree to allow for inspections and DPS meter.

If not they wouldn’t be allowed to join. Because if what they are worried about is just not getting a group, it shouldn’t be a problem at that point.

No more pugs joining who don’t meet requirements. Which is my whole issue, with pugging to start with.

More information is always good. If people are using it to harass others (read: people who don’t read the LFG requirements and join anyway), don’t join their parties. They clearly don’t want you in theirs either. If you really want to leech from a group’s run by wearing gear that makes it take 20% longer, then it should be known by all members.

Woljnir.7810:

runeblade.7514:

Woljnir.7810:

If playing how you want infringes on someone else playing how they want, nothing will ever be solved. Inspect someone and see they have their own build and aren’t zerker, kick right away without even saying anything. Am I doing it right?

Also DPS meters? Really? In a game that basically just consists of 5 man groups of all DPS, I don’t think DPS meters are needed in the least other than to stroke Berserker’s kitten and the need to see the big numbers. And yes, I understand you said nothing about Berserker, but that is honestly how your post comes off.

1. The other way around works too. If someone else plays how they want which I don’t approve, it will infringe on how I play how I want if I let them in my party. In this case, if you don’t want to take the time to equip for the right equipment in my party, then create your own party that accepts anybody even with lower gear levels.

2. There are people that wants to find the highest DPS ever and then there are people like me. I will need DPS meters to know how much DPS I have for this build. I can choose to sacrifice DPS for utility if I need to. Let say that I want to use Ranger Axe/Axe build. First I look for the highest dps possible, then I shave off the dps for utility/survivability if I choose to. There are builds for highest DPS for warriors; however, they all use Greatsword or axe/mace, yet there are no builds for highest mace DPS build. As a mace guy, I assure that it will reinforce on playing how I want.

And this is exactly why it doesn’t exist. Those people who don’t like a person’s build so they just kick them? Yeah, that’s you. The elitism just drips from your post. Sorry that you feel the need to approve of other player’s builds. The “right equipment” isn’t decided by anybody other than the player.

While i agree with everything else, that’s not necessarily true.

the reason wow has them and stuff is because if you don’t have ENOUGH dps, then you can’t actually kill the boss etc.

I don’t know that gw2 has these mechanics, but if we are failing to kill a boss, and the rest of us have 12k dps, and one guy is only getting 2… then its fairly obvious to see where we are lacking as well.

It goes both ways, however the easiest method is not to include.

coming from wow hardcore raiding(multiple server first)… the pve here so far has been a cakewalk. So unless you’re running into instances where you don’t have enough dps(which is rare) then its never a problem.

Improper gearing might be more common in fractals at higher levels, in which case you can tell the guy is geared wrong, or dying too much and then you just need to politely tell him he’s not a good fit or he’s just not geared right, show him whats right, and find a replacement

edgarallanpwn.8739:

While i agree with everything else, that’s not necessarily true.

the reason wow has them and stuff is because if you don’t have ENOUGH dps, then you can’t actually kill the boss etc.

I don’t know that gw2 has these mechanics, but if we are failing to kill a boss, and the rest of us have 12k dps, and one guy is only getting 2… then its fairly obvious to see where we are lacking as well.

It goes both ways, however the easiest method is not to include.

coming from wow hardcore raiding(multiple server first)… the pve here so far has been a cakewalk. So unless you’re running into instances where you don’t have enough dps(which is rare) then its never a problem.

Improper gearing might be more common in fractals at higher levels, in which case you can tell the guy is geared wrong, or dying too much and then you just need to politely tell him he’s not a good fit or he’s just not geared right, show him whats right, and find a replacement

Every post in this thread, save for the person trying to get people to use their DPS meter or whatever, is 9 months old.