Ideally you couldn’t view someone else’s DPS unless they also got the Gem store feature. Otherwise my suggestion would be kind of pointless, haha.
Ahh in that case I am fine with that but like the API idea better as ArenaNet developer resources are not spent on developing the tool. It should be expensive though.
DPS meter: Not a good idea, for reasons already explained and more. Having such a meter would only foster more of the elitism already rampant. I caught hell in the warrior forums because I refused to run the berseker meta, and am running axe/axe valk. I was called a noob, a horrible player and worse. Having a way to check that while in a group would just be awful.
Inspect command: Not really needed, not only for the reasons above, but because if you want to check someones gear, ask them to ping it. A form of it already exists in-game. Adding it as a function would be redundant.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
If playing how you want infringes on someone else playing how they want, nothing will ever be solved. Inspect someone and see they have their own build and aren’t zerker, kick right away without even saying anything. Am I doing it right?
Also DPS meters? Really? In a game that basically just consists of 5 man groups of all DPS, I don’t think DPS meters are needed in the least other than to stroke Berserker’s kitten and the need to see the big numbers. And yes, I understand you said nothing about Berserker, but that is honestly how your post comes off.
DPS meter: Not a good idea, for reasons already explained and more. Having such a meter would only foster more of the elitism already rampant. I caught hell in the warrior forums because I refused to run the berseker meta, and am running axe/axe valk. I was called a noob, a horrible player and worse. Having a way to check that while in a group would just be awful.
Inspect command: Not really needed, not only for the reasons above, but because if you want to check someones gear, ask them to ping it. A form of it already exists in-game. Adding it as a function would be redundant.
All I hear you saying is that you want to run whatever build you want, in a group that requests zerker meta builds, without them knowing and without any repercussions.
Why do you think it’s your right to join someone else’s group when they specifically request a different build based on their idea of what’s fun, which is fast & efficient runs.
Talk about an entitled mindset.
Also, it’s not elitism when the calculations prove that they are bringing superior dps and you are not. Those are facts, and not an opinion. You may enjoy your build, and more power to you, as there is an easy avenue for you to participate in the same activities without intruding on other groups – join a casual run or post your own lfg specifying that it’s a casual run.
DPS meter: Not a good idea, for reasons already explained and more. Having such a meter would only foster more of the elitism already rampant. I caught hell in the warrior forums because I refused to run the berseker meta, and am running axe/axe valk. I was called a noob, a horrible player and worse. Having a way to check that while in a group would just be awful.
Inspect command: Not really needed, not only for the reasons above, but because if you want to check someones gear, ask them to ping it. A form of it already exists in-game. Adding it as a function would be redundant.
All I hear you saying is that you want to run whatever build you want, in a group that requests zerker meta builds, without them knowing and without any repercussions.
Why do you think it’s your right to join someone else’s group when they specifically request a different build based on their idea of what’s fun, which is fast & efficient runs.
Talk about an entitled mindset.
I never said, nor implied, I was trying to join “zerker only groups” and getting flamed for not have the right gear. I said I was flamed in the FORUMS, in a thread about the beserker meta dying and the feasability of other builds. I’ve never joined a group where I didn’t meet the requirements, whether gear, level, AP, or whatever. If people want to have those groups, thats fine, I won’t join them. I’m not that disrepectful. I’ve also had people joining my “Any welcome” LFG that I always run, and asked me what gear I had, and had them insult me and quit because I wasn’t running the meta.
I do not have any sense of entitlement. I don’t expect people to allow me to join specific groups regardless of what I have, I don’t expect either Anet or other players to cater to my style of play. The only thing I do expect from players is common curtesy and not to hate because I am playing in a manner that I find fun and not hindering you from doing the same.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
I understand the dislike for the Gem store. I haven’t spent anything in the gem store, i just buy stuff with gold.
I don’t really see a difference between buying something like a commander tag for 100g, or converting 100g to gems to buy a DPS meter. As long as you can convert money to gold, everything in this game is B2P, regardless of if it’s sold by a vendor or in the Gem store.
My reluctance is not based on whether the addition can be obtained via in-game resources or just cash. It’s that I have spent money on quite a few games that lacked features commonly associated with games of their type. I also notice that unfinished games are becoming commonplace. My concern is that if consumers encourage developers to provide half a game for the box price and then offer to buy the rest piecemeal, then that’s what we’ll see going forward.
Problem with that it is not OPT in for the player you are reading the damage on. Please see my previous post for why that is important.
I’m of the firm opinion that neither efficiency players nor laissez-faire players “own” the LFG tool. Both groups should advertise their preferences. Anyone who ignores what’s advertised deserves what they get. Your concern seems to be to “protect” players from a bad experience. These players should protect themselves by avoiding groups that aren’t looking for the same experience they are.
However, since not all efficiency players advertise their preference, perhaps purchase of the damage meter add-on should generate a flag on the account. When such a player starts a group or joins a group in the LFG, others can see that the meter is in play, and avoid the group or kick the player if that’s their preference.
-Form your own LFG party tailored to your needs
-Seeing this is about pugs your friend list might be barren…..why not friend the people that meet your criteria for future runs.
-you can join 4 guilds. Main guild, Tpvp guild, World boss guild, like minded dungeon running guild.
The tool would help some people but i feel a bit more effort can be done on the player side.
Im all for this, we could even use the gemstore to purchase a kit that is consumed everytime you inspect another charicters items. Damage meters can be purchased for 50gems per hour use. Brilliant!
I think what came out of these threads is that some players like DPS meters, some don’t. Anet going either way is going to annoy players.
But the question then becomes, “How will the players that don’t like it be effected?”
I think it is very realistic to implement and not effect players that don’t care about their DPS.
Even if they won’t be affected it’ll be perceived as moving the game in a certain direction which they don’t want. There isn’t any particular logical reason why, it’s just a matter of perception.
It’s like if Anet introduces raids, or why people complain about the WP system. You don’t have to raid, and you don’t have to WP, but they still don’t want it there.
On the topic though, lets pose a theoretical question. You’re doing perfect rotations, you’re looking forwards to seeing your sweet DPS record on a fight, then a party member gets downed next to you. What do you do?
I never said, nor implied, I was trying to join “zerker only groups” and getting flamed for not have the right gear. I said I was flamed in the FORUMS, in a thread about the beserker meta dying and the feasability of other builds. I’ve never joined a group where I didn’t meet the requirements, whether gear, level, AP, or whatever. If people want to have those groups, thats fine, I won’t join them. I’m not that disrepectful. I’ve also had people joining my “Any welcome” LFG that I always run, and asked me what gear I had, and had them insult me and quit because I wasn’t running the meta.
I do not have any sense of entitlement. I don’t expect people to allow me to join specific groups regardless of what I have, I don’t expect either Anet or other players to cater to my style of play. The only thing I do expect from players is common curtesy and not to hate because I am playing in a manner that I find fun and not hindering you from doing the same.
Well, why you thought the bezerker meta was dying is beyond me, berzerker will always do the most damage because of how the game works, plain and simple (unless they fix it so mobs can have 100s of condi stacks on them). It’s stronger now than it ever was for most content except level 80 dungeons. So I would expect you to be corrected and told you’re wrong, and that your build is going to be weaker but still nonetheless viable for casual gameplay, but people shouldn’t have been calling you names or anything.
As for people insulting you on casual runs, that’s completely uncalled for, and they should know better than that if they are joining a group that specifies it’s a casual run.
Look, what people are really asking for with dps meters and inspect is “can we have gear score? We are trying to rate people on achievement points, but that way isnt working too well.”
On the topic though, lets pose a theoretical question. You’re doing perfect rotations, you’re looking forwards to seeing your sweet DPS record on a fight, then a party member gets downed next to you. What do you do?
Is that a real question? You keep DPSing so that they rally and come up
Or you pull them up. You can’t expect optimal DPS if your running with a group that isn’t also performing at their best.
Look, what people are really asking for with dps meters and inspect is “can we have gear score? We are trying to rate people on achievement points, but that way isnt working too well.”
You can’t really compare it to gearscore, though. Gearscore was an indicator of what level of content you were capable of running, as in, you literally wont be able to complete this dungeon if your group is running less than X gearscore.
The content in GW2 can be completed by anyone wearing anything. The next step is doing it faster/better/etc, which a DPS meter would be a great tool in that regard.
I would like to see these two things in game. By allowing players like me use these tools, you are making it possible for us to “play how we want”. What’s wrong with being able to control the quality of player that I let into my party?
I would also like to see more instanced content.
Yes, play how YOU want by forcing others to play how YOU want. Right. I’m sorry, but gear inspection is unnecessary, and damage meters are just as useless.
Quality of player is not dictated by wearing zerker, and dealing 92384756932476234987562349875639487562349875 damage. You want to find a quality player? Run the dungeon. The player fails miserably and dies to easy stuff? Bad quality. Player stays alive through stuff that you die to? Better quality.
I would like to see these two things in game. By allowing players like me use these tools, you are making it possible for us to “play how we want”. What’s wrong with being able to control the quality of player that I let into my party?
I would also like to see more instanced content.
Yes, play how YOU want by forcing others to play how YOU want. Right. I’m sorry, but gear inspection is unnecessary, and damage meters are just as useless.
Quality of player is not dictated by wearing zerker, and dealing 92384756932476234987562349875639487562349875 damage. You want to find a quality player? Run the dungeon. The player fails miserably and dies to easy stuff? Bad quality. Player stays alive through stuff that you die to? Better quality.
Some players like to get feedback on their damage and some people like running zerker gear with other zerkers. Play how you want goes both ways, man.
You just gotta be explicit with your /lfg to make sure you party’s expectations match your own. The only issues arise when people try to implement optimal play styles in pugs, or when players haphazardly join speed runs they aren’t built/prepared for.
Everyone keeps blaming DPS meters for issues that are caused by poor communication, poor group advertising, and a small percentage of toxic players that exist in every MMO community.
I would like to see these two things in game. By allowing players like me use these tools, you are making it possible for us to “play how we want”. What’s wrong with being able to control the quality of player that I let into my party?
I would also like to see more instanced content.
Considering you spent months on here moaning about the game and even claiming you don’t even play it any more, why should those of us that do, pay any attention to your elitist requirements?
I stole a special snowflake’s future by exercising my democratic right to vote.
The biggest issue I have with the arguments against a dps meter/ingame gearcheck is that opponents to it always state that it will cause such a massive problem to anyone not playing in full zerk gear/traits, when the proportion of people defending their PVT/Cleric builds seems to be so much higher than the people who wish to run full damage. Straight from the horse’s mouth, we’ve heard that casual runs fill up in 30s, when Berserker teams take 10+ minutes to fill, which implies a much higher amount of players playing how they want, with no gearchecks. Why not allow a tool that lets those players find each other and let the people wanting to run full dps ensure their team is geared as such?
I think a damage meter by itself is a bad idea.
An utility meter that gathers damage, healing, and crowd control, combos done would be better.
If your damage is high but the group is failing because you don’t CC enemies enough, you are to blame
This is a good point as well. As a PVT guardian pushing near 30k health, I deal the same damage as a guardian wearing zerker, with the sole exception that my critical rate is about 10%. In exchange for my low critical rate, I have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more health and armor than a zerker guardian. And by running S/S & staff, I may not be dealing top damage, yet I contribute more to the fight because I’m CCing enemies, buffing allies, and providing supportive actions.
To top it off, I’m not dying to the same things a zerker guardian would die to.
And for those saying “stop joining zerker only parties,” get off the dead horse already. I dont see where anyone is saying they dont want either of these functions because they’re joining zerker/speedrun parties.
The biggest issue I have with the arguments against a dps meter/ingame gearcheck is that opponents to it always state that it will cause such a massive problem to anyone not playing in full zerk gear/traits, when the proportion of people defending their PVT/Cleric builds seems to be so much higher than the people who wish to run full damage. Straight from the horse’s mouth, we’ve heard that casual runs fill up in 30s, when Berserker teams take 10+ minutes to fill, which implies a much higher amount of players playing how they want, with no gearchecks. Why not allow a tool that lets those players find each other and let the people wanting to run full dps ensure their team is geared as such?
You’re not looking at the other part of the problem, where the person starting the “zerker only” party might be looking for a party to carry them through the dungeon. Also, if someone doesnt want to ping their gear, then kick them and go back to waiting. You’re perfectly able to go about playing how you want already.
How come no one ever says – find or create a guild. Seriously, if you are in a group of like minded people you surely don’t have to inspect their gear, right? Elite Dungeoneers code of honour, I shall not do less than one gazillion DPS (pm me, I am selling the copyright to that slogan).
There is nothing wrong with that! Get together and finally play with other maximum efficiency oriented people, there are bound to be enough to warrant a 24/7 coverage?!
For the record, I’m all for it btw, best thing that could ever happen, because it would save my time and your time. No hard feelings from my side.
However, deep down inside you know the potential for drama and negative emotions.
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
Those truly into speed running tend to have groups of their own and don’t pug it.
Yes, but that has no bearing on this particular discussion as they wouldn’t be kicking PUG players for having unacceptable gear. They also wouldn’t need to inspect their own static teams or monitor DPS, as it’s their static team and they’ve proven they run perfectly. Which would only support not needing meters and an inspect command.
We’re talking about PUG groups specifically. Speedrunners that use the LFG tool, which seems to be somewhat common.
The biggest issue I have with the arguments against a dps meter/ingame gearcheck is that opponents to it always state that it will cause such a massive problem to anyone not playing in full zerk gear/traits, when the proportion of people defending their PVT/Cleric builds seems to be so much higher than the people who wish to run full damage. Straight from the horse’s mouth, we’ve heard that casual runs fill up in 30s, when Berserker teams take 10+ minutes to fill, which implies a much higher amount of players playing how they want, with no gearchecks. Why not allow a tool that lets those players find each other and let the people wanting to run full dps ensure their team is geared as such?
You’re not looking at the other part of the problem, where the person starting the “zerker only” party might be looking for a party to carry them through the dungeon. Also, if someone doesnt want to ping their gear, then kick them and go back to waiting. You’re perfectly able to go about playing how you want already.
This actually just strengthens my point, a gearcheck built into the game would ensure someone isn’t starting a group with the sole intent of having the rest of the party carry them, as they could check the person’s gear too. Additionally, if it’s already possible, as you say, why not add a very simple check into the game to streamline things, and help people get on their way quicker?
I never said, nor implied, I was trying to join “zerker only groups” and getting flamed for not have the right gear. I said I was flamed in the FORUMS, in a thread about the beserker meta dying and the feasability of other builds. I’ve never joined a group where I didn’t meet the requirements, whether gear, level, AP, or whatever. If people want to have those groups, thats fine, I won’t join them. I’m not that disrepectful. I’ve also had people joining my “Any welcome” LFG that I always run, and asked me what gear I had, and had them insult me and quit because I wasn’t running the meta.
I do not have any sense of entitlement. I don’t expect people to allow me to join specific groups regardless of what I have, I don’t expect either Anet or other players to cater to my style of play. The only thing I do expect from players is common curtesy and not to hate because I am playing in a manner that I find fun and not hindering you from doing the same.
Well, why you thought the bezerker meta was dying is beyond me, berzerker will always do the most damage because of how the game works, plain and simple (unless they fix it so mobs can have 100s of condi stacks on them). It’s stronger now than it ever was for most content except level 80 dungeons. So I would expect you to be corrected and told you’re wrong, and that your build is going to be weaker but still nonetheless viable for casual gameplay, but people shouldn’t have been calling you names or anything.
As for people insulting you on casual runs, that’s completely uncalled for, and they should know better than that if they are joining a group that specifies it’s a casual run.
I totally agree. And I didn’t start the thread, and it was pre patch, so much of it was speculation on the beserker nerf. I agree that beserker stats do deal the most damage, but what I was trying to convey was that other builds are viable and can be used to effect if beserker was nerfed to the point of uselessness.
However all that I see a DPS meter causing is more grief. Even in casual runs. Someone thinks that a member isn’t pulling their weight because he died, so he pops up the meter, find the lowest DPS, rages and either quits party, or tries to kick. Already seen similiar type things happen in my clearly labeled casual groups.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
How come no one ever says – find or create a guild. Seriously, if you are in a group of like minded people you surely don’t have to inspect their gear, right? Elite Dungeoneers code of honour, I shall not do less than one gazillion DPS (pm me, I am selling the copyright to that slogan).
There is nothing wrong with that! Get together and finally play with other maximum efficiency oriented people, there are bound to be enough to warrant a 24/7 coverage?!
For the record, I’m all for it btw, best thing that could ever happen, because it would save my time and your time. No hard feelings from my side.
However, deep down inside you know the potential for drama and negative emotions.
It’s a tough argument, cuz no one ever believes me, but i miss being able to casually view other people’s gear without having to bother them.
I’m not the type of person to boot you from a group based on your gear, but i am very curious about what type of builds random people will run and occasionally i see a piece of gear i don’t recognize so i would like to check it out.
Like you said, you can ping your gear so it’s not a big issue, unless you really wanna see someones gear while their afk or just not responding for whatever reason. But I hate the idea that the only reason people want /inspect is so they can kick them from groups for not wearing zerker/make fun of people based on their gear or whatever.
If someone is going to boot you for your gear, they’ll just ask you to ping. I don’t think an inspect feature would change anything, except for being a valuable resource to new players or players that want to peep at other peoples builds without actually asking them.
In WoW i could sit in Ironforge for great lengths of time just looking at how people have geared themselves. You can’t expect me to message 20 people at a time in GW2 just to get them to ping me their gear.
I would like to see these two things in game. By allowing players like me use these tools, you are making it possible for us to “play how we want”. What’s wrong with being able to control the quality of player that I let into my party?
I would also like to see more instanced content.
why not just ask them. How many people would lie really?
I would like to see these two things in game. By allowing players like me use these tools, you are making it possible for us to “play how we want”. What’s wrong with being able to control the quality of player that I let into my party?
I would also like to see more instanced content.
We do NOT need this sort of elitism in the game. And hopefully the developers will NEVER implement it.
The only gearcheck/inspect system I’d like to see is one that allows you to see the skins of the person you select. There are too many times I see awesome suits/outfits, and have no idea what they are.
I would like to see these two things in game. By allowing players like me use these tools, you are making it possible for us to “play how we want”. What’s wrong with being able to control the quality of player that I let into my party?
I would also like to see more instanced content.
Yes, play how YOU want by forcing others to play how YOU want. Right. I’m sorry, but gear inspection is unnecessary, and damage meters are just as useless.
Quality of player is not dictated by wearing zerker, and dealing 92384756932476234987562349875639487562349875 damage. You want to find a quality player? Run the dungeon. The player fails miserably and dies to easy stuff? Bad quality. Player stays alive through stuff that you die to? Better quality.
Yes, play how YOU want by forcing others to put up on how YOU want. Right. I’m sorry, but gear inspection is necessary.
Quality of player is not dictated by wearing zerker, and dealing 92384756932476234987562349875639487562349875 damage, but it will shorten the time from 2 hour run to a 10 minute run if the player is good with the zerker. A good player in cleric will deal almost no damage. Bad quality. Player stays alive and does HUGE damage? Better quality.
It’s a tough argument, cuz no one ever believes me, but i miss being able to casually view other people’s gear without having to bother them. (…)
Does that mean you are not buying my slogan? Mh, ok.
I understand where you are coming from. I’m fine with it. I do believe it’s considered rude in some other cultures to look without asking. Just going from memory about the inspect topic in a different game, can’t remember which one though.
Hey, I’ve done it too, didn’t want to bother the person and liked his shirt (so to speak). I’m shy.
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
How come no one ever says – find or create a guild. Seriously, if you are in a group of like minded people you surely don’t have to inspect their gear, right? Elite Dungeoneers code of honour, I shall not do less than one gazillion DPS (pm me, I am selling the copyright to that slogan).
There is nothing wrong with that! Get together and finally play with other maximum efficiency oriented people, there are bound to be enough to warrant a 24/7 coverage?!
For the record, I’m all for it btw, best thing that could ever happen, because it would save my time and your time. No hard feelings from my side.
However, deep down inside you know the potential for drama and negative emotions.
How come no one ever says – find or create a guild. Seriously, if you are in a group of like minded people you surely don’t have to inspect their gear, right? Casual Dungeoneers code of honour, I shall not do more than one hundred DPS (Don’t pm me, I am NOT selling the copyright to that slogan).
There is nothing wrong with that! Get together and finally play with other casual efficiency oriented people, there are bound to be enough to warrant a 24/7 coverage?!
For the record, I’m all for it btw, best thing that could ever happen, because it would save my time and your time. No hard feelings from my side.
However, deep down inside you know the potential for drama and negative emotions.
Yep, works both ways. And yep, did that, nice people btw but for some reason they did not like that slogan, so I wasn’t going to try to sell it and I did not bother with the copyright either
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
I got a better idea, make the other play styles more viable. Gear and DPS checks would mean very little if the game indeed had control/support and damage as was originally advertised.
Give the enemies the ability to dodge, do more damage to stacking players and hit harder while moving more often instead. Also reduce their health to compensate then you can have your gear check. Although you still won’t be able to check the competence of the player.
If playing how you want infringes on someone else playing how they want, nothing will ever be solved. Inspect someone and see they have their own build and aren’t zerker, kick right away without even saying anything. Am I doing it right?
Also DPS meters? Really? In a game that basically just consists of 5 man groups of all DPS, I don’t think DPS meters are needed in the least other than to stroke Berserker’s kitten and the need to see the big numbers. And yes, I understand you said nothing about Berserker, but that is honestly how your post comes off.
I just have one thing to answer they play how they want I play how i want but we don’t play together.
This is a good point as well. As a PVT guardian pushing near 30k health, I deal the same damage as a guardian wearing zerker, with the sole exception that my critical rate is about 10%. In exchange for my low critical rate, I have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more health and armor than a zerker guardian. And by running S/S & staff, I may not be dealing top damage, yet I contribute more to the fight because I’m CCing enemies, buffing allies, and providing supportive actions.
To top it off, I’m not dying to the same things a zerker guardian would die to.
And for those saying “stop joining zerker only parties,” get off the dead horse already. I dont see where anyone is saying they dont want either of these functions because they’re joining zerker/speedrun parties.
From an instanced pve persepctive a PVT staff guard is simply not optimal. Zerk guards are bringing all the protection/cc needed whilst at the same time doing far more damage. Moreoever those zerk guards are not dying either (unless they are bad/in a bad group) making all the excess defense the PVT guard has a total and utter waste. You are not contributing more to the fight at all. You are infact suboptimal.
But, that doesn’t make you a bad player per say and it doesn’t mean everyone should be forced to build for the “meta”. But I see no issue with those people like myself who do want to do that (meta build), having access to tools which might help tweak group comp from a real time in game perspective.
Problem with that it is not OPT in for the player you are reading the damage on. Please see my previous post for why that is important.
I’m of the firm opinion that neither efficiency players nor laissez-faire players “own” the LFG tool. Both groups should advertise their preferences. Anyone who ignores what’s advertised deserves what they get. Your concern seems to be to “protect” players from a bad experience. These players should protect themselves by avoiding groups that aren’t looking for the same experience they are.
However, since not all efficiency players advertise their preference, perhaps purchase of the damage meter add-on should generate a flag on the account. When such a player starts a group or joins a group in the LFG, others can see that the meter is in play, and avoid the group or kick the player if that’s their preference.
Nowhere in my topic anywhere did I mention anything about the LFG tool. It is great that you advertise you are looking for zerk only builds that way I can avoid your runs. Problem is NOT EVERYONE DOES and what you are complaining about happens the other way too. That other way will become much more apparent and noticeable if group DPS meters without opt in ever being put into the game or made available through a 3rd party.
I don’t join speed runs nor do I run zerk only runs. Why? Because my gear is not all zerk. I don’t like all zerk. My trinkets and accessories and weapons are generally zerk but my armor is valks. I join the groups I like or create my own. You are right that neither efficiency players nor laissez-faire players “own” the LFG tool. The perception is that way however because when you go to see what groups are available those are the only groups advertising.
Sometimes I wish there was a system that hid your playstyle of game unless someone opts into it though some option. That way the bad attitude that comes from both sides would stop. (And no I am not saying that your attitude is bad.)
Please read my posts to understand my opinion on the topic.
It’s a tough argument, cuz no one ever believes me, but i miss being able to casually view other people’s gear without having to bother them. (…)
Does that mean you are not buying my slogan? Mh, ok.
I understand where you are coming from. I’m fine with it. I do believe it’s considered rude in some other cultures to look without asking. Just going from memory about the inspect topic in a different game, can’t remember which one though.
Hey, I’ve done it too, didn’t want to bother the person and liked his shirt (so to speak). I’m shy.
Haha, no i’m not buying. Unless i can convert gold to gems and then buy it, then you may have a deal :P
I’m not sure if you’re being serious or not (either way it’s cool with me), but yes, somethings we take for granted may be rude in other cultures.
However, in an MMO with /inspect you have no way of knowing if 100 people inspected you or 0 people inspected you. Out of sight out of mind.
And in my opinion, privacy concerns about your gear/stats is a little silly. If you build weird, OWN IT! Be confident! If i see someone with crap gear, i don’t automatically assume they’re a crap player, i just assume they’re still in the process of gearing just like the rest of us. Not everyone has optimal/BIS best gear all the time on all their toons. And with the price of runes nowadays i wouldn’t blame someone for still wearing the cof runes their gear came with.
This is a good point as well. As a PVT guardian pushing near 30k health, I deal the same damage as a guardian wearing zerker, with the sole exception that my critical rate is about 10%. In exchange for my low critical rate, I have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more health and armor than a zerker guardian. And by running S/S & staff, I may not be dealing top damage, yet I contribute more to the fight because I’m CCing enemies, buffing allies, and providing supportive actions.
Hahahahahaha. Guardians who have a low crit rate do crap damage. CC is useless most times in dungeons as well, cause when you pull em all to a corner there is 0 need for any more cc.
If you run with a zerker party, you are nothing but dead weight, plain and simple. In your average pug party I’m sure you are a godsend though, cause you need 30k health when the boss fights take 20 minutes.
At least your type is easy to pick out. Oh you have a shield and staff equipped? Kick.
That’s why we have the ability to post details in our LFG posts, so that way we never even need to cross paths.
I think a damage meter by itself is a bad idea.
An utility meter that gathers damage, healing, and crowd control, combos done would be better.
If your damage is high but the group is failing because you don’t CC enemies enough, you are to blame
This is a good point as well. As a PVT guardian pushing near 30k health, I deal the same damage as a guardian wearing zerker, with the sole exception that my critical rate is about 10%. In exchange for my low critical rate, I have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more health and armor than a zerker guardian. And by running S/S & staff, I may not be dealing top damage, yet I contribute more to the fight because I’m CCing enemies, buffing allies, and providing supportive actions.
To top it off, I’m not dying to the same things a zerker guardian would die to.
And for those saying “stop joining zerker only parties,” get off the dead horse already. I dont see where anyone is saying they dont want either of these functions because they’re joining zerker/speedrun parties.
Aren’t the two comments highlighted above quite contradictory? If you are critting only 30% of the time (assuming fury) while the zerk guardian is critting 80-90% of the time, he will be doing a LOT more damage. Like 2-3 times as much, right?
Regarding the original topic, I am a pretty mediocre player. (I’d say bad but there are some really bad players out there.) I am late middle-aged with slowing reflexes and (currently) playing on a pretty crummy machine. But even with that, I would like to have a personal DPS meter just so I could evaluate my builds better. Whether we like it or not this game is all D&D – dodging and damage. Even if I am mediocre and need to wear something other than zerk in some circumstances, it would be nice to be able to evaluate builds/gear to still try and do as much damage as possible.
Also, on the inspect thing, I don’t really care to see whether they are in zerk, soldier’s, etc., but it would be really nice to be able to ping someone else and see what skins and dyes they are using.
One last comment…more folks should use the report and block (and even kick) features for these folks who insult them during instances. Life is too short to listen to that stuff. If I want to be hassled by teenagers, I have my own children for that.
And in my opinion, privacy concerns about your gear/stats is a little silly. If you build weird, OWN IT! Be confident! If i see someone with crap gear, i don’t automatically assume they’re a crap player, i just assume they’re still in the process of gearing just like the rest of us. Not everyone has optimal/BIS best gear all the time on all their toons. And with the price of runes nowadays i wouldn’t blame someone for still wearing the cof runes their gear came with.
But some people do automatically assume they are a bad player. A lot players rather not deal with the hassle that comes along with it.
Yeah, Im 99.9% sure Id never get a group if someone saw my stats like that. I use my shortbow the vast majority of the time in dungeons because its the only weapon i feel I can use for most situations, but its not overly strong. As a thief Ive set up using mostly power, precision and toughness. Its not right for someone to kick me from a group just because they don’t like how I set up to play.
So make your own group. Only you get to care how you want your group to play or they get kicked.
It cost 0 gold 0 silver 0 copper to create your own lfg.
99% of the time, I never see the zerker/exp/level 80 parties. Should I put up and join the casual parties? No. I create my own lfg and watch how fast it fills up.
But you are effectively forcing the community into 2 groups.
I can understand why you would want such a feature, but a simple DPS meter doesn’t truly relate to skill or effectiveness. Maybe I am good at staying alive and can quickly res people? You don’t know that. Maybe I just cant afford the best gear? I’m not rich, and only have about 6-7 gold consistently. I may be wearing all exotic armor, but my accessories are mostly rares, because the exotic versions are stupidly expensive. I do have 2 ascended accessories, and am working on an ascended weapon, but you are proposing to castrate me from 50% of the groups because I’m not a power player with tons of money to buy all the best equipment. I know how to play PvE content, and I’m fairly good at staying alive, but you and your proposed DPS meter wouldn’t even allow me to prove my worth simply because a number wasn’t high enough for your standards.
You: “I’m sorry, you are X class, so you should be using Y armor and have Z stats. I don’t want you.”
Well kitten you too. I don’t want to play with a judgmental prick anyway.
And in my opinion, privacy concerns about your gear/stats is a little silly. If you build weird, OWN IT! Be confident! If i see someone with crap gear, i don’t automatically assume they’re a crap player, i just assume they’re still in the process of gearing just like the rest of us. Not everyone has optimal/BIS best gear all the time on all their toons. And with the price of runes nowadays i wouldn’t blame someone for still wearing the cof runes their gear came with.
But some people do automatically assume they are a bad player. A lot players rather not deal with the hassle that comes along with it.
why would you want to play with someone like that?
I would argue (even just looking by at this thread) that the majority of players don’t care how you gear. Just make your own parties.
You guys make this so hard when you continue to play the role of a “victim.” Stop giving the power to the trolls and bullies!!
why would you want to play with someone like that?
I would argue (even just looking by at this thread) that the majority of players don’t care how you gear. Just make your own parties.
You guys make this so hard when you continue to play the role of a “victim.” Stop giving the power to the trolls and bullies!!
I don’t want to play with someone like that. I don’t go look for them. I don’t try to find them. They find us.
I agree the majority of players don’t care. I also do make my own parties. I don’t join your type.
The point is a group DPS meter will be exploited by trolls and bullies to the point that they will take it out. So why even put it in. That is what the players against DPS meters don’t want to deal with. If everyone would use it properly there would be no argument no disagreement. The problem is everyone won’t.
Please read my threads in this post to understand my opinion on the matter. Please also try to understand my position before you assume what it is.
(…)
I’m not sure if you’re being serious or not (either way it’s cool with me), but yes, somethings we take for granted may be rude in other cultures.
(…)
Yes, I am serious. Now as I think I said I don’t have an issue with this myself, bite me I am not 100% certain but I’m going out on a limb that it pertained to eastern cultures not really liking it? In that sense there might realistically be even a lesser chance of something like this being implement now.
Anyways, just food for thought, not that I think it would be the deciding factor in itself.
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
Consider that if people want you to be filtered out of a group, maybe it’s actually for a good reason instead of instantly responding “WTF elitist!” and refusing to make your own group.
I think a damage meter by itself is a bad idea.
An utility meter that gathers damage, healing, and crowd control, combos done would be better.
If your damage is high but the group is failing because you don’t CC enemies enough, you are to blame
This is a good point as well. As a PVT guardian pushing near 30k health, I deal the same damage as a guardian wearing zerker, with the sole exception that my critical rate is about 10%. In exchange for my low critical rate, I have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more health and armor than a zerker guardian. And by running S/S & staff, I may not be dealing top damage, yet I contribute more to the fight because I’m CCing enemies, buffing allies, and providing supportive actions.
To top it off, I’m not dying to the same things a zerker guardian would die to.
And for those saying “stop joining zerker only parties,” get off the dead horse already. I dont see where anyone is saying they dont want either of these functions because they’re joining zerker/speedrun parties.
Consider that if people want you to be filtered out of a group, maybe it’s actually for a good reason instead of instantly responding “WTF elitist!” and refusing to make your own group.
Its not about refusing to make our own group. Sometimes its difficult to get a group going for some dungeon paths, especially story mode, so being denied a group based off my DPS and equipment means I could go weeks without being able to complete that particular dungeon path. I can make my own lfg every day, but if its a rarely run path, then getting a group together can be difficult, and being denied a group for BS reasons just compounds the issue of not being able to find a group.
Ive done HoW once for path 1, and have never done SE because there’s never any groups, and have not been successful in starting my own.
I would like DPS meters in game but for a different reason. Not to promote (or justify) elitism, but rather to offer a practical look at theorycrafting, something tat is entirely done on spreadsheets.
Currently, if the spreadsheets says Runes of Strength > all then that’s hard to argue against even if it’s not so in practical game-play.
Runes of the Pack, Runes of Scholar etc. could all have their moments of Glory or situational advantages that currently simply aren’t reflected when just using spreadsheets.
Sometimes its difficult to get a group going for some dungeon paths, especially story mode, so being denied a group based off my DPS and equipment means I could go weeks without being able to complete that particular dungeon path. I can make my own lfg every day, but if its a rarely run path, then getting a group together can be difficult, and being denied a group for BS reasons just compounds the issue of not being able to find a group.
Ive done HoW once for path 1, and have never done SE because there’s never any groups, and have not been successful in starting my own.
I’ve never seen people requesting requirements for story mode, they are all lower level than the explorable paths and people don’t really do speed runs – they are usually done just that once to get them unlocked on a toon. If people are posting requirements for a story mode, I wouldn’t run with them either.
You’re right about HotW, all the paths suck, even 1 now (although I’m pretty sure people still do it), 2 and 3 are even worse because they are underwater and underwater combat is the pits.
SE is one of the most popular, easiest, and fastest dungeons, it’s a staple for pugs, you should be able to find a group around reset time for that pretty easily (p1 & 3, not 2). Just go stand outside the instance and with megaservers there are always a ton of people just hanging out.
why would you want to play with someone like that?
I would argue (even just looking by at this thread) that the majority of players don’t care how you gear. Just make your own parties.
You guys make this so hard when you continue to play the role of a “victim.” Stop giving the power to the trolls and bullies!!
I don’t want to play with someone like that. I don’t go look for them. I don’t try to find them. They find us.
I agree the majority of players don’t care. I also do make my own parties. I don’t join your type.
The point is a group DPS meter will be exploited by trolls and bullies to the point that they will take it out. So why even put it in. That is what the players against DPS meters don’t want to deal with. If everyone would use it properly there would be no argument no disagreement. The problem is everyone won’t.
Please read my threads in this post to understand my opinion on the matter. Please also try to understand my position before you assume what it is.
“Your type?” Are you kidding me, man? Have you been so traumatized by WoW that you automatically assume anyone that is in favor of DPS meters is also a troll that will boot you from groups?
I shouldn’t have to defend myself from these type of accusations. It’s like your assuming just because i have PVT gear i’m also a bad player.
I could care less how other people play. I just want to improve my own play, and in an effort to do that, metric feedback that is more detailed than the combat log would be crucial.
You are so determined to fight against potential harassment that you are willing to become the harasser yourself.
furthermore— I joined a group with one of these players you despise so much, and for no good reason he boots one of the dudes from our party. So, i’m like “are you serious, man?”
And i left the group!! I msged the other guys in the party and they join my group, and now the rude player is left by himself with no one to group with. If you stop playing the victim or trying to white knight for potential victims, you can actually fight against the trolls!
