Guild Wars 2

I just leveled a Thief to 80 today (after 3 days) and decided to play around with the Daredevil’s Staff moves, only to find I was greatly disappointed in a few of the Staff skills (except Vault and Dust Strike), especially Staff skill 1 where Hook Strike’s tooltip is worded very poorly and is vague.

Daredevil Staff problems and how they can be improved:

Staff skill 1 Hook Strike – This skill is missing the important piece of information that specifies it as a ‘Stealth Attack’ that works in conjunction with a stealth skill, which lead me to confusion regarding its functionality.

However, even with that piece of information added, the tooltip description of this skill is very misleading. Currently, the tooltip of this skill reads, “Attack your foes with stealth, knocking enemies down.” (which seems to imply you will go into stealth, thereby giving the impression Hook Strike functions as a 4th chain attack in Skill 1)

Therefore, instead of Hook Strike saying, “Attack your foes with stealth, knocking enemies down.” it should say, “Attack your foes while in stealth, knocking down enemies.” (which is a lot more specific that implies you must use a stealth skill first before Hook Strike can trigger. The way it’s worded now does not explain that very well).

Staff skill 2 Weakening Charge – The range of this skill should be raised from 450 to 500 at the very least. 450 is too short a range for this skill. A range of 600 would be nicer to allow two full spins yet I believe that would be deemed too much in the PvP community (maybe), which is why IF Weakening Charge does get a range of 600, the PvP version should remain at a range of 500.

My reason for suggesting a slightly longer range on this skill is because the travel distance is a bit ‘tight’ when the player should be allowed a little more reach than at 450 range.

Staff skill 3 Debilitating Arc – The functionality of this skill is fine, except for the fact it is way too quick so as to look silly. The skills says, “Strike enemies in front of you and roll backward, breaking immobilize effects.” and what it looks like is a single-target attack. The animation does not line up with the skill’s description of “Strike enemies…” (plural).

Debilitating Arc should be slow enough for players to be able to actually see a full, quick wide swing (not instant) in front of the character, yet fast enough for a quick (not instant) escape like we see now.

Those are my thoughts and I hope these three Staff skills get improved.

Hook Strike is the ‘in stealth’ skill.

TheLordQ.1857:

Hook Strike is the ‘in stealth’ skill.

Explain, please, because I am not understanding what you’re pointing out… Whenever I have my cursor hovered over Skill 1 on auto-attack, not only do I not see my character going into stealth, but I also never see Hook Strike’s tooltip come up like the other three combo attacks in Skill 1.

Furthermore, Hook Strike’s 2 second KD never triggers (even if Hook Strike is completely invisible [it shouldn’t be]), which tells me Hook Strike is not active at all.

All I see is: Staff Strike, Staff Bash and Punishing Strike, repeated…

Odd spot to put this topic

All auto-attack chains for Thief have a “Stealth Attack” skill that isn’t part of the actual chain. Instead, while you are in stealth, your first attack will use the stealth attack (which then reveals you, and your normal auto-attack chain happens as normal)

As said right above me, all thief weapons have an attack on their Autoattack chain that will trigger when in stealth. Including the downed skill.
The staff skill will trip enemies you hit and interrupt them.

As for your points I feel, based on lack of example and facts, are purely reasons for yourself and not the class itself, especially if you don’t understand the mechanics as whole.

Entrea Sumatae.7830:

All auto-attack chains for Thief have a “Stealth Attack” skill that isn’t part of the actual chain. Instead, while you are in stealth, your first attack will use the stealth attack (which then reveals you, and your normal auto-attack chain happens as normal)

Then Hook Strike’s tooltip needs to be re-worded since it is very misleading.

Instead of Hook Strike saying, “Attack your foes with stealth, knocking enemies down.” (which seems to imply you will go into stealth when the 4th combo triggers), Hook Strike should say, “Attack your foes while in stealth, knocking down enemies.”

Furthermore here is the wiki link, which is very helpful if you don’t understand a topic before you post on the forums.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_thief_skills
You’ll see for hook strike it has stealth attack on it.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Entrea Sumatae.7830:

All auto-attack chains for Thief have a “Stealth Attack” skill that isn’t part of the actual chain. Instead, while you are in stealth, your first attack will use the stealth attack (which then reveals you, and your normal auto-attack chain happens as normal)

Then Hook Strike’s tooltip needs to be re-worded since it is very misleading.

Instead of Hook Strike saying, “Attack your foes with stealth, knocking enemies down.” (which seems to imply you will go into stealth when the 4th combo triggers), Hook Strike should say, “Attack your foes while in stealth, knocking down enemies.”

The tooltip also specifies it’s a stealth attack rather than part of the chain, using the same information as the tooltip for every other main-hand or two-handed weapon for Thieves. While it might be a good idea to explain stealth attack mechanics in general (it was a bit confusing when I just started thief, but I don’t know if the information has been added anywhere in the NPE updates), it’s not an issue with Staff in particular that needs fixing.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Then Hook Strike’s tooltip needs to be re-worded since it is very misleading.

Hook Strike’s description says “Stealth Attack” before the tooltip even starts. All Thief weapon skills that say “Stealth Attack” are attacks that can only be executed while you’re in stealth. Hook Strike’s wording is no different than that of Backstab, Sneak Attack, or the other Stealth Attacks.

Having projectile reflection on the Staff auto-attack is already really strong. Can you imagine how unbalanced it would be to put a two second knockdown there too?

As for Weakening Charge, the distance it travels absolutely should not be increased. The skill is at its most powerful when you can aim it so that you hit your target multiple times, which stacks the Weakness and inflicts damage comparable to Vault at much less Initiative. A longer distance on Weakening Charge would make it much harder to land those hits properly, making the skill less effective as a result, only able to achieve maximum damage against truly huge opponents.

Riku.4821:

As said right above me, all thief weapons have an attack on their Autoattack chain that will trigger when in stealth. Including the downed skill.
The staff skill will trip enemies you hit and interrupt them.

As for your points I feel, based on lack of example and facts, are purely reasons for yourself and not the class itself, especially if you don’t understand the mechanics as whole.

What do you mean based on lack of example and facts? My suggestions are for the good of the Daredevil Elite Spec, not solely for me, but for all players who play Thief.

With that being said in mind, my reason for suggesting a longer range on Weakening Charge is because the attack is too ‘tight’ and should instead allow the player to have a little more reach than at 450 range.

And then you go on to insinuate that I don’t understand the mechanics of any of these new skills as a whole when I do indeed understand how they work and what they do.

The reason I got confused with ‘Hook Strike’ is because of its poor wording.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Then Hook Strike’s tooltip needs to be re-worded since it is very misleading.

Hook Strike’s description says “Stealth Attack” before the tooltip even starts. All Thief weapon skills that say “Stealth Attack” are attacks that can only be executed while you’re in stealth. Hook Strike’s wording is no different than that of Backstab, Sneak Attack, or the other Stealth Attacks.

Having projectile reflection on the Staff auto-attack is already really strong. Can you imagine how unbalanced it would be to put a two second knockdown there too?

I don’t know what tooltip you are reading, but here is what I am seeing on my screen in the attachment below:

It clearly says ‘with stealth’, yes, yet that is vague. As it is currently worded, the word ‘with’ makes it sound like the stealth happens ‘with’ the attack/when it is executed, not the other way around requiring the use of a stealth skill first, to which Hook Strike triggers after the use of a stealth skill.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

As for Weakening Charge, the distance it travels absolutely should not be increased. The skill is at its most powerful when you can aim it so that you hit your target multiple times, which stacks the Weakness and inflicts damage comparable to Vault at much less Initiative. A longer distance on Weakening Charge would make it much harder to land those hits properly, making the skill less effective as a result, only able to achieve maximum damage against truly huge opponents.

Just because the range on Weakening Charge is raised (IF it were raised) does not mean it would be faster going through enemies so as to cause less damage to enemies (which is what you seem to be arguing). The range of a skill is purely range; the speed of skill is purely speed. Therefore, there is no reason why Weakening Charge’s range cannot be raised from 450 to 500 and not maintain the same travel speed when moving through enemies.

Hook Strike is just missing the “Stealth Attack” on its description.

With all due respect, if you fully knew the skill mechanic hook strike wouldn’t of confused you.

I’ve played Daredevil plenty in stronghold and I can say the skills are perfectly fine as is.
And the reasoning I say its for you’re own good is because you gave no facts of why they need to be changed. You simply said they need to be changed to this, because it feels like it should. That is a personal statement.

Khisanth.2948:

Hook Strike is just missing the “Stealth Attack” on its description.

Then that needs to be addressed because it causes confusion, yet Riku here doesn’t want to admit there actually is something wrong with Hook Strike’s tooltip since it is clearly missing that piece of information saying it is a skill used in conjunction with stealth.

Riku.4821:

With all due respect, if you fully knew the skill mechanic hook strike wouldn’t of confused you.

I’ve played Daredevil plenty in stronghold and I can say the skills are perfectly fine as is.
And the reasoning I say its for you’re own good is because you gave no facts of why they need to be changed. You simply said they need to be changed to this, because it feels like it should. That is a personal statement.

As Khisanth.2948 point pointed out, Hook Strike is missing that one little piece of information in the tooltip that specificies it directly as a ‘Stealth Attack’ used in conjunction with a stealth skill.

How am I not supposed to get confused when information is missing in the tooltip? And going by the description alone (as explained) is vague the way it is currently worded.

As for your other misplaced assumption, you are wrong. I did not suggest changes because ‘I feel’ anything. I suggested them because they need to be improved.

P.S. Okay, so reading back on what I said to you in my other reply, I did say, “With that being said in mind, my reason for suggesting a longer range on Weakening Charge is because I feel the attack is too ‘tight’ and should instead allow the player to have a little more reach than at 450 range.”

Surely you have to have feeling about something or believe something in mind (same difference) before you go making statements, opinions, whatever you want to call it.

So are you saying if I did not use the words ‘I feel’ (which I edited out btw) that my statement would have been more credible? The answer is no, not really, but you see, I am not one for wording certain statements in a definitive tone, so I put ‘I feel’ to leave room for error in case I am wrong, even though I do not believe I am wrong on this one.

Sylent.3165:

Odd spot to put this topic

Not that odd since Elites are part of the HoT expansion.

Okay, you’re right. All the Staff slot 1 skills are missing their skill type descriptors (Staff Strike and Staff Bash are missing their “Chain” on the tooltips as well). That definitely is a bug that needs to be fixed. All the same, there is a point to Riku’s argument. If you were very familiar with Thief mechanics you probably wouldn’t be confused despite the missing info, because it works the same way as literally every other Thief autoattack chain. Don’t get me wrong, there’s no particular reason you should be familiar enough with Thief to know that, especially having power-leveled them in a few days, but you clearly aren’t coming in with feedback as an expert at the class. Not to say your feedback isn’t valuable as a result, but a lot of people will see it that way.

Behellagh.1468:

Sylent.3165:

Odd spot to put this topic

Not that odd since Elites are part of the HoT expansion.

Honestly this thread would have then been better put in the HoT feedback forum, or more likely the Thief subforum.

True but it is a tad better than the general discussion forum which catches everything.

And I’ve played thief nearly 3 years and didn’t realize that mechanic. I simply thought all those skills were chain skills. Then again I rarely played a stealthy thief.

Alright, it’s missing the “Stealth Attack” description, so it should get that. But moving on…

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Just because the range on Weakening Charge is raised (IF it were raised) does not mean it would be faster going through enemies so as to cause less damage to enemies (which is what you seem to be arguing). The range of a skill is purely range; the speed of skill is purely speed. Therefore, there is no reason why Weakening Charge’s range cannot be raised from 450 to 500 and not maintain the same travel speed it moves through enemies.

If the range of the skill is increased, then by its nature it’s going to become harder to land all three hits. The hits aren’t all dealt at the end of the attack, they’re made as the attack moves forward. As it is with the current range, it takes very good positioning (or trapping an enemy against a wall) to be able to land all three hits on a normal-sized foe. With the skill travelling farther, it then becomes that much harder to land all three hits. If you just want the attack to move farther before those hits come out, then that makes it much weaker once you’re adjacent to the enemy, as you’d need to back away from them before using the attack in order to get the hits.

Weakening Charge is not a gap closing attack, it’s not like Heartseeker or Shadow Shot. The distance it travels is secondary, it actually requires the user to skilfully choose when to use the attack in order to get maximum damage, as opposed to “22222” Heartseeker spam. When you start using Weakening Charge while already in melee range and aiming it right to get all the hits, you’ll understand the true power of the skill, and also why adding distance to it is exactly the wrong thing to do. It would be a pretty serious nerf to the weapon, on a weapon skill that was already buffed from its initial beta form to specifically allow those multiple hits with the right positioning.

Entrea Sumatae.7830:

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Entrea Sumatae.7830:

All auto-attack chains for Thief have a “Stealth Attack” skill that isn’t part of the actual chain. Instead, while you are in stealth, your first attack will use the stealth attack (which then reveals you, and your normal auto-attack chain happens as normal)

Then Hook Strike’s tooltip needs to be re-worded since it is very misleading.

Instead of Hook Strike saying, “Attack your foes with stealth, knocking enemies down.” (which seems to imply you will go into stealth when the 4th combo triggers), Hook Strike should say, “Attack your foes while in stealth, knocking down enemies.”

The tooltip also specifies it’s a stealth attack rather than part of the chain, using the same information as the tooltip for every other main-hand or two-handed weapon for Thieves. While it might be a good idea to explain stealth attack mechanics in general (it was a bit confusing when I just started thief, but I don’t know if the information has been added anywhere in the NPE updates), it’s not an issue with Staff in particular that needs fixing.

Any information that is missing is an issue. Just because Staves are Staves does not make them exempt from other tooltips that describe other skills for different weapons so as to call it off as not a big deal, because it is a big deal. Part of the reason why this thread exists is because Hook Strike is missing a piece of information that should have been included to let players know it is an attack used in conjunction with stealth skills.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Alright, it’s missing the “Stealth Attack” description, so it should get that. But moving on…

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Just because the range on Weakening Charge is raised (IF it were raised) does not mean it would be faster going through enemies so as to cause less damage to enemies (which is what you seem to be arguing). The range of a skill is purely range; the speed of skill is purely speed. Therefore, there is no reason why Weakening Charge’s range cannot be raised from 450 to 500 and not maintain the same travel speed it moves through enemies.

If the range of the skill is increased, then by its nature it’s going to become harder to land all three hits. The hits aren’t all dealt at the end of the attack, they’re made as the attack moves forward. As it is with the current range, it takes very good positioning (or trapping an enemy against a wall) to be able to land all three hits on a normal-sized foe. With the skill travelling farther, it then becomes that much harder to land all three hits. If you just want the attack to move farther before those hits come out, then that makes it much weaker once you’re adjacent to the enemy, as you’d need to back away from them before using the attack in order to get the hits.

Weakening Charge is not a gap closing attack, it’s not like Heartseeker or Shadow Shot. The distance it travels is secondary, it actually requires the user to skilfully choose when to use the attack in order to get maximum damage, as opposed to “22222” Heartseeker spam. When you start using Weakening Charge while already in melee range and aiming it right to get all the hits, you’ll understand the true power of the skill, and also why adding distance to it is exactly the wrong thing to do. It would be a pretty serious nerf to the weapon, on a weapon skill that was already buffed from its initial beta form to specifically allow those multiple hits with the right positioning.

I appreciate your elaborate explanation, yet it still does not add up. No matter if Weakeaning Charge has its range raised or not, positioning of a skill is positioning, just as the range of a skill is range and the speed of a skill is speed. What’s your point?

Now you’re saying that if the range is raised on Weakening Charge it is going to magically mess up your aim and that it is going to mess up your damage, too? No it will not!

If Weakening Charge has its ranged increased from 450 to 500 (without messing with the speed at which it travels through enemies), the damage will ‘linger’ for just as long, if not, a little longer as it does at the range of 450.

Come on… I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

And then you really killed me when you said the obvious, “The hits aren’t all dealt at the end of the attack, they’re made as the attack moves forward.” Facepalm

However, the first part makes no sense. How do you suppose that would be possible? By that time (at the end of an attack) the attack would be over to which no damage is dealt. Did you really believe I thought Weakening Charge worked in such way where no damage is dealt throughout the time you are spinning around through enemies, that only at the end of the attack, damage is dealt? That makes no sense to assume such a thing.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

As Khisanth.2948 point pointed out, Hook Strike is missing that one little piece of information in the tooltip that specificies it directly as a ‘Stealth Attack’ used in conjunction with a stealth skill.

How am I not supposed to get confused when information is missing in the tooltip? And going by the description alone (as explained) is vague the way it is currently worded.

As for your other misplaced assumption, you are wrong. I did not suggest changes because ‘I feel’ anything. I suggested them because they need to be improved.

P.S. Okay, so reading back on what I said to you in my other reply, I did say, “With that being said in mind, my reason for suggesting a longer range on Weakening Charge is because I feel the attack is too ‘tight’ and should instead allow the player to have a little more reach than at 450 range.”

Surely you have to have feeling about something or believe something in mind (same difference) before you go making statements, opinions, whatever you want to call it.

So are you saying if I did not use the words ‘I feel’ (which I edited out btw) that my statement would have been more credible? The answer is no, not really, but you see, I am not one for wording certain statements in a definitive tone, so I put ‘I feel’ to leave room for error in case I am wrong, even though I do not believe I am wrong on this one.

First off my apologies, as it has been made clear the tool tip is missing the stealth attack title. But it helps my point as I did not know this, but it did not confuse me as I knew that there is no fourth attack in auto attack chains. Yet I knew exactly by the wording and placement of the skill that it was a stealth skill, hence knowing the mechanics.

It isn’t so much the actual use of the words I feel, but the fact you aren’t giving exact reasons or facts of why. Why should the range be extended, what reasons does the range being low effect the skill. Why would X range help the skill be improved etc.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Come on… I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

It kind of sounds like you did… I’m not sure how you’re not understanding this.

If the skill travels farther than it currently does, then the attacks are by nature more spread out, unless you’re just adding dead distance at the start or end of the move where no attack is happening. Since it seems from your incredulous response that that’s what you’re trying to suggest, then that would still nerf the attack by either placing the thief farther away from the enemy at the end of the attack and requiring him to move back into range to resume attacking, or by requiring the thief to move farther away before initiating the attack to be able to land all three hits, which again slows down the rate at which the attack can be used.

Maybe I’ll just ask this, then. What do you hope to gain from increasing the range of the attack? In what scenario does that make the attack better? Maybe that will give me a better idea of what you’re trying to use the attack to do, so I can better explain to you how the attack is meant to be used.

lol its a knock down on a stick. seriously?

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Come on… I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

It kind of sounds like you did… I’m not sure how you’re not understanding this.

If the skill travels farther than it currently does, then the attacks are by nature more spread out, unless you’re just adding dead distance at the start or end of the move where no attack is happening. Since it seems from your incredulous response that that’s what you’re trying to suggest, then that would still nerf the attack by either placing the thief farther away from the enemy at the end of the attack and requiring him to move back into range to resume attacking, or by requiring the thief to move farther away before initiating the attack to be able to land all three hits, which again slows down the rate at which the attack can be used.

Maybe I’ll just ask this, then. What do you hope to gain from increasing the range of the attack? In what scenario does that make the attack better? Maybe that will give me a better idea of what you’re trying to use the attack to do, so I can better explain to you how the attack is meant to be used.

The things you claim will happen if the range of Weakening Charge is raised from 450 to 500 will not happen. All that changes is the amount of enemies you would be able to move through with a range of 500 vs. 450. That’s it. That does not/will not affect how many hits you’d be able to get on an enemy.

For example, the screenshot I took below of the distance between me and a drake is the distance required to get three hits on the drake seen in the screenshot (at 450 range). However, if the range were 500 and I used Weakening Charge at the same distance between me and the drake, I would still be able to get three hits on him, and then after I got those three hits, at that point my character will have moved beyond the drake to hit more foes (if there were any other foes beyond the drake in the screenshot).

That is what I want to see accomplished with Weakening Charge (more enemies to move through at a time) at a range of 500 that has abolutely nothing to do with hit count and neither will it mess with your hit count.

Riku.4821:

First off my apologies, as it has been made clear the tool tip is missing the stealth attack title. But it helps my point as I did not know this, but it did not confuse me as I knew that there is no fourth attack in auto attack chains. Yet I knew exactly by the wording and placement of the skill that it was a stealth skill, hence knowing the mechanics.

It isn’t so much the actual use of the words I feel, but the fact you aren’t giving exact reasons or facts of why. Why should the range be extended, what reasons does the range being low effect the skill. Why would X range help the skill be improved etc.

Apology accepted.

Takes a deep breath Read my latest reply I made to Xiahou Mao.9701 and maybe you will understand… I don’t know what is so hard to understand regarding my suggestion to up the range of Weakening Charge from 450 to 500. It is only common sense (I though) what more range would do for the Weakening Charge attack. I should not have to explain it away in such voluble detail.

P.S. I am out for the next 2 hours for dinner. I will be back to read feedback.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

For example, the screenshot I took below of the distance between me and a drake is the distance required to get three hits on the drake seen in the screenshot (at 450 range). However, if the range were 500 and I used Weakening Charge at the same distance between me and the drake, I would still be able to get three hits on him, and then after I got those three hits, at that point my character will have moved beyond the drake to hit more foes (if there were any other foes beyond the drake in the screenshot).

Alright, I know where your problem is, then.

Weakening Charge doesn’t hit every enemy three times while you pass through them, as you think it does. The hits occur at set intervals during your movement when using the skill. Your proposal that you would be able to hit more foes after getting three hits on the drake is impossible, because after you’ve hit three times with the skill it’s done. There are no more hits to give. That’s why positioning is so important with the skill, because if you’re poorly positioned you’ll only hit an enemy once with it, or twice with it. Go engage enemies that are smaller than a drake, a human-sized foe for example, and you’ll see that it can be quite difficult to get all three hits.

Now that you know the hits are being dished out at intervals in the movement completely unrelated to any enemies nearby, hopefully you can now see why lengthening the distance the move travels would thus make it harder to land all three hits successfully.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Eidolonemesis.5640:

For example, the screenshot I took below of the distance between me and a drake is the distance required to get three hits on the drake seen in the screenshot (at 450 range). However, if the range were 500 and I used Weakening Charge at the same distance between me and the drake, I would still be able to get three hits on him, and then after I got those three hits, at that point my character will have moved beyond the drake to hit more foes (if there were any other foes beyond the drake in the screenshot).

Alright, I know where your problem is, then.

Weakening Charge doesn’t hit every enemy three times while you pass through them, as you think it does. The hits occur at set intervals during your movement when using the skill. Your proposal that you would be able to hit more foes after getting three hits on the drake is impossible, because after you’ve hit three times with the skill it’s done. There are no more hits to give. That’s why positioning is so important with the skill, because if you’re poorly positioned you’ll only hit an enemy once with it, or twice with it. Go engage enemies that are smaller than a drake, a human-sized foe for example, and you’ll see that it can be quite difficult to get all three hits.

Now that you know the hits are being dished out at intervals in the movement completely unrelated to any enemies nearby, hopefully you can now see why lengthening the distance the move travels would thus make it harder to land all three hits successfully.

I am back. Of course the smaller the enemy is the tougher it is going to be to land three hits on them, and with practice to find the sweet spot for different size enemies, you should have no problem pulling off 3 hits, but what does that have to do with the range of Weakening Charge to land those 3 hits? It is a matter of practice/finding the sweet spot, not the range itself…

Reading what you wrote, you said nothing I was not already aware of. Quote me if you can that I said you would be able to hit all enemies in a line 3 times per enemy hit. You can’t because that is not what I said… What I did say was, and I quote, " However, if the range were 500 and I used Weakening Charge at the same distance between me and the drake, I would still be able to get +three hits on him, and then after I got those three hits, at that point my character will have moved beyond the drake to hit more foes (if there were any other foes beyond the drake in the screenshot)." end of quote.

Notice how I said ‘three hits on him’ being the drake (singular) followed by ‘and then my character will have moved beyond the drake to hit more foes’ (‘to hit more foes’ beyond the drake does not imply each one of those foes from thereon will be hit 3 times each. What it does imply is that the drake will have received 3 hits being the main target, whereas all other foes beyond him will only receive 1 hit UNLESS those enemies are stacked on your main target in the same location to which all enemies will suffer 3 hits each.

Therefore, Weakening Charge being able to hit each enemy in a line 3 times each is not what I am suggesting should happen whatsoever, neither did I say that is how it functions. The suggestion for raising the range of Weakening Charge from 450 to 500 is solely for being able to hit more foes in a line (the more distance, the more foes in your path), to which only the main target will have received the full 3 hits you were going for. All other targets will have received only 1 hit UNLESS the enemies are stacked together around your main target to which they all receive the same number of hits (I have tested this several times in-game to verify).

I know. I mentioned the ‘UNLESS’ scenario three times now. Sorry for the repetition.

P.S. How about some feedback regarding my feedback to Anet on Debilitating Arc guys.

EDIT I was able to prove through a screenshot (on four enemies) that this skill can indeed hit more than 3 times in a single use when moving through enemies even after the skill has hit up to 3 times. It does not stop at 3 hits as you believe(d).

The numbers in the screenshot are: 291, 189, 187 and 170. I was even able to get up to five hits at one time (indicating one of the four enemies received two hits), yet trying to capture that split-second for that shot is tough since the numbers disappear too quickly.

With that being said in mind, it is therefore possible for a single enemy to receive 2-3 hits at once whereas the other enemies receive 1 hit UNLESS those enemies are stacked on your main target in the same location to which all enemies will suffer 3 hits each.

Staff on Daredevil is very lack luster. I’m trying to give it a go. But the whole thief profession is just falling apart.

Azure Prower.8701:

Staff on Daredevil is very lack luster. I’m trying to give it a go. But the whole thief profession is just falling apart.

I have to disagree. The Daredevil spec (even with the poor gear I have on until I can afford better gear) has proven amazing. The problems (as explained) is that Staff skill tooltips need to be more specific (since Staff skills, it is said within the comments here, are missing more info not included than what I pointed out), Debilitating Arc needs a more relevant animation to be consistent with its tooltip description explaining it can hit multiple enemies, and Weakening Charge needs its range set to 500 instead of 450. And to be fair, other skills that travel like Weakening Charge, for example, Whirling Attack, should also have their range changed to 500. A range of 450 is just too ‘tight’ a distance when moving through a group of enemies, so why not that extra 50 range?

To illustrate the problem with increasing the range on Weakening Charge, let’s exaggerate a bit. Let’s make the dash 1200 range as a thought experiment. As you do the dash, you execute three attacks: One at 0 range, one at 600 range, and one at 1200 range. First, you might notice that against a stationary target, it will be nearly impossible to land more than one strike unless they’re following you at exactly the same speed. Second, you might note that at many ranges (such as an enemy standing 300 away from you) you fail to do ANY damage to an enemy at all. While an extra 50 range isn’t nearly so dramatic as that, it does increase the difficulty of positioning such that an enemy will be in range of all three hits, and may even make it impossible on smaller targets.

Personally I’m not a huge fan of staff in particular, but quite enjoying Daredevil as a whole. It’s certainly far from the entire profession falling apart.

All I can think of while playing daredevil is this.

What I find funny is this guy played a thief to 80, unlocked the elite spec and still didn’t know about stealth attacks.

As a thief main :

A) Yes, they should change the tooltip, but the fact that you got confused over it shows that you don’t know thief as well as you might think.

B) The range on Weakening Charge is fine as is and it would only make the skill more difficult to fully utilise if the it was changed in either way.

C) Debilitating Arc is great as is.

What I want them to change is Dust Strike, which I’d prefer to be a field and to fix Vault so it can use it’s full range.

MrDire.6235:

As a thief main :

A) Yes, they should change the tooltip, but the fact that you got confused over it shows that you don’t know thief as well as you might think.

B) The range on Weakening Charge is fine as is and it would only make the skill more difficult to fully utilise if the it was changed in either way.

C) Debilitating Arc is great as is.

What I want them to change is Dust Strike, which I’d prefer to be a field and to fix Vault so it can use it’s full range.

Pardon my late reply.

In response to A, you are wrong. I do know about stealth attacks and how they work when playing Thief, just not in Hook Strike’s tooltip because it was missing info specifying it as an attack that works with stealth only, that which lead me to believe Hook Strike was part of Skill 1’s chain of attacks, causing the character to go into stealth (which is what the description seems to imply) and cause knockdown.

In response to B, as I said before, no matter what the range is of any skill that works like Weakening Charge does, it would not take players long to find the sweet spot(s) far as positioning goes to land those 3 hits on a target, because even at the range of 450 when players were new to the Daredevil spec, players had to find the sweet spot for landing 3 hits on a target using Weakening Charge. Therefore, raising the range of Weakening Charge from 450 to 500 is not going to make the skill so much harder to use as you believe for said reasons.

In response to C, I disagree, because Debilitating Arc is visually inconsistent with its tooltip description because it looks like it hits 1 foe not 3 foes as specified in its tooltip. How is that not blatantly obvious? If the skill hits more than one enemy, it should have more of a wider swing than what looks like a single-target thwack on the head.

simplesimon.2084:

What I find funny is this guy played a thief to 80, unlocked the elite spec and still didn’t know about stealth attacks.

What I find funnier is you guys’ misplaced assumptions. Just because Hook Strike’s tooltip not only has a vague description and a missing of piece of info specifying it as an attack that works while in stealth only (that confused me) does not mean I do not know about other Thief skills (that are more specific) that work only while in stealth.