Guild Wars 2

Two glass cannon specialized classes wearing berserker gear are about to enter a grassland plain and fight to the death.

The Mesmer is concentrated on single dps and buffs his phantasms wherever possible without sacrificing damage from himself. He uses mantras and he is not a shatter build.
(30/30/0/0/10)

The Ranger is concentrated on single target dps as well choosing to buff his own dps over his pets, but traits to support the pet wherever a sacrifice of his own dps would not occur.
(30/30/0/0/10)

Rules:
Vote for which class you think would win and add why if possible.

Do NOT talk about condition builds, Trap builds, or Shatter builds, just what you think would make the classes more even in this 1v1 to the death (such as buffs, trait/skill/ability here or add something) and/or why they are not even now.

Now have at it!

Nova.8021:

Two glass cannon specialized classes wearing berserker gear are about to enter a grassland plain and fight to the death.

The Mesmer is concentrated on single dps and buffs his phantasms wherever possible without sacrificing damage from himself. He uses mantras and he is not a shatter build.
(30/30/0/0/10)

The Ranger is concentrated on single target dps as well choosing to buff his own dps over his pets, but traits to support the pet wherever a sacrifice of his own dps would not occur.
(30/30/0/0/10)

Rules:
Vote for which class you think would win and add why if possible.

Do NOT talk about condition builds, Trap builds, or Shatter builds, just what you think would make the classes more even in this 1v1 to the death (such as buffs, trait/skill/ability here or add something) and/or why they are not even now.

Now have at it!

Are you defining weapons allowed, as well as pets?

Overall I’d expect the ranger to lose. Glass cannon build, plus the Mesmer’s illusion clones even used just once would probably be too much.

The ranger will have to use the 1500 range longbow trait to his advantage, and quickly use “2” + QZ and pet swap quickness.
But if the mesmer manages to get 3 Izekers up , you’re dead.

Without limiting their builds I would go with the class that could make the player most confused, which is the Mesmer. It’s ability to go in stealth and make clones makes it a fierce target for any player.

Honestly I wish the forums had more fun discussions like this rather than the pit of hate brewing relentlessly.

There is no contest. A GC memser will rock a GC ranger 1v1. No need to breakdown traits for this one.

Torres.2890:

The ranger will have to use the 1500 range longbow trait to his advantage, and quickly use “2” + QZ and pet swap quickness.
But if the mesmer manages to get 3 Izekers up , you’re dead.

Mesmer pops Feedback or Mimic on the ranger and the ranger quickly ends up killing himself.

The mesmer will win, without a doubt. While I don’t think Ranger’s are in as bad a boat as some of the more whiny forumites say, when it comes to PvP the Mesmer’s and Thief’s multiple zero-counterplay defensive mechanics put them in a completely different tier than the remainder of the classes.

kidbs.8920:

Torres.2890:

The ranger will have to use the 1500 range longbow trait to his advantage, and quickly use “2” + QZ and pet swap quickness.
But if the mesmer manages to get 3 Izekers up , you’re dead.

Mesmer pops Feedback or Mimic on the ranger and the ranger quickly ends up killing himself.

Pretty much.

I love my hunter but I gotta feeling my mesmer would rip it appart.

Conncept.7638:

The mesmer will win, without a doubt. While I don’t think Ranger’s are in as bad a boat as some of the more whiny forumites say, when it comes to PvP the Mesmer’s and Thief’s multiple zero-counterplay defensive mechanics put them in a completely different tier than the remainder of the classes.

It’s more like this far as I can tell.

The ranger I think will have the extra range trait, so from a distance of 1500 he can start peppering the mesmer, and ride out something like Feedback or Mimic. That assumes, of course, the mesmer is not closing as fast as they can. With Signet of the Hunt passively on, and Barrage, the ranger can probably kite decently enough but won’t be able to actually kill the mesmer that way.

Once the mesmer can get in close, if they can summon illusions . . . which if I recall, stealths the real one before popping two illusions up, and the ranger cannot evade due to being stunned or dazed, the ranger is dead on the ground or running and dying slowly. Even with one of the two skills that break stun, it’s unlikely he can get out of the mess quickly enough.

If we’re allowed to choose pets, I can probably see this lasting a little longer but not by much. These two classes out in an open field are not evenly matched.

Is it okay to say I really don’t like the idea of Deadliest Warrior, overall though? It always seemed silly and when in execution it seemed they never really properly evaluated what they were talking about.

Not sure the class would matter. Mesmer is the best class in the game currently and what’s shocking is it doesn’t appear to be that overpowered in doing it.

Atherakhia.4086:

Not sure the class would matter. Mesmer is the best class in the game currently and what’s shocking is it doesn’t appear to be that overpowered in doing it.

I think people are starting to notice this. I see more and more mesmers every day in wvw. I’m saving my opinion of the class till after the march patch and culling is fixed because I do not believe that the Mesmer is supposed to stealth for two seconds every time he summons an illusion. I would hope that this is due to culling and will be fixed. As of right now it’s like fighting a thief but being punished for using AoE since if you kill an illusion you get a condition on you.

By the way Mesmer wins the fight hands down.

I don’t see the option “A thief pops in and kills both of them.”

More seriously, mesmer should win. It all depends on personal skill and utilities after all.
My 2 cents, lack of feedback or Mirror would force the mesmer to interrupt as possible, especially if he’s not traited/skilled for stealth, or to constantly avoid pet CC and such.

Ranger. It has axes.

Max likes the axe.

Killing Joke.4371:

Ranger. It has axes.

Max likes the axe.

Actually one of the few times I was in WvW I ran into a mesmer and they really did not like my axes when we got up close and personal.

Yargesh.4965:

Killing Joke.4371:

Ranger. It has axes.

Max likes the axe.

Actually one of the few times I was in WvW I ran into a mesmer and they really did not like my axes when we got up close and personal.

What exactly do you do to the mesmer with those axes, if I may ask?

Depends on the player.
If both players are equally skilled Mesmer will win, because a well played Mes is much stronger than a well-played Engi (good luck beating a tank Mesmer), sadly Ranger is a bit weak from a PvP perspective.
If they are bad well, the fight would be pretty embarassing to look at and pretty much down to luck.

This is WvW tho right?
If sPvP I don’t even consider the fight, the big limitations on stat choice always kept me away from that.

kidbs.8920:

Torres.2890:

The ranger will have to use the 1500 range longbow trait to his advantage, and quickly use “2” + QZ and pet swap quickness.
But if the mesmer manages to get 3 Izekers up , you’re dead.

Mesmer pops Feedback or Mimic on the ranger and the ranger quickly ends up killing himself.

If we`re actually talking about competant players here, why can`t the ranger stop autoattacking for a second exactly?.

Florgknight.1589:

kidbs.8920:

Torres.2890:

The ranger will have to use the 1500 range longbow trait to his advantage, and quickly use “2” + QZ and pet swap quickness.
But if the mesmer manages to get 3 Izekers up , you’re dead.

Mesmer pops Feedback or Mimic on the ranger and the ranger quickly ends up killing himself.

If I use rapid fire, I only take confusion damage once for 10 shots.

A wonderful time for a quick heal using Mirror, is it not?

I’m going to side with the Mesmer on this one.

I ran a shatter burst build for tPvP before I switched to a bunker D/D ele due to the current meta. The class certainly has plenty of faults where point capping is concerned, but pinning a single target down is definitely not one of them.

This just hammers in it in more that the “other” classes need a serious buff. Because I have seen a single mesmer take out groups of people…that is just kitten.

LFk.1408:

I’m going to side with the Mesmer on this one.

I ran a shatter burst build for tPvP before I switched to a bunker D/D ele due to the current meta. The class certainly has plenty of faults where point capping is concerned, but pinning a single target down is definitely not one of them.

Problem: We’re not supposed to consider “shatter builds” for this exercise. What exactly we are given to work with and what is exempt from options aren’t 100% clear.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

LFk.1408:

I’m going to side with the Mesmer on this one.

I ran a shatter burst build for tPvP before I switched to a bunker D/D ele due to the current meta. The class certainly has plenty of faults where point capping is concerned, but pinning a single target down is definitely not one of them.

Problem: We’re not supposed to consider “shatter builds” for this exercise. What exactly we are given to work with and what is exempt from options aren’t 100% clear.

Ech. I didn’t read the part about mantras. I’ve never really used mantras extensively myself, I actually don’t know how well they work in PvP situations. For some reason I read the 30/30/0/0/10 as 10/30/0/0/30, which is your standard shatter skeleton.

I withdraw my above statement… not really any complete knowledge on my part of the way the mantra mes plays.

LFk.1408:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

LFk.1408:

I’m going to side with the Mesmer on this one.

I ran a shatter burst build for tPvP before I switched to a bunker D/D ele due to the current meta. The class certainly has plenty of faults where point capping is concerned, but pinning a single target down is definitely not one of them.

Problem: We’re not supposed to consider “shatter builds” for this exercise. What exactly we are given to work with and what is exempt from options aren’t 100% clear.

Ech. I didn’t read the part about mantras. I’ve never really used mantras extensively myself, I actually don’t know how well they work in PvP situations. For some reason I read the 30/30/0/0/10 as 10/30/0/0/30, which is your standard shatter skeleton.

I withdraw my above statement… not really any complete knowledge on my part of the way the mantra mes plays.

Glass cannon mesmer with a GS and mantra of pain is akin to being repeatedly kicked in the nuts at the games second highest available range.

I won this match-up last night in WvW as the Ranger, actually. It was a really good duel.

He feedbacked me during my LB 2, but I canceled it and dodged out of it at the same time. Also, he had gotten 2 iZerkers up at one point, but I took the time to assign my pet to kill one while I swapped to SB and killed the other. It was a very intense fight, and I nearly lost twice, but I pulled out ahead with a few good crits and CCs (Wolf fear was really what got him in the end; I interrupted his heal with it). I cannot say that we were the same skill level, but from fighting him I definitely got the feeling that I was fighting a talented opponent, and he earned a /bow from me after I stomped him.

My main weap, however, was not the LB, it was the SB. The LB was my weapon switch for 2 through 5, and not for its 1. The Mesmer was GS / Sword + Focus. I can’t say for sure what his spec was, but he wasn’t shattering and was using mantras, so my assertion is that he probably closely fit the bill of the OP’s statement.

Mesmer. Handsdown. With clones? Yea…

Saying “No shatter/use mantras (which mantras?)” is fine, but I like to use Distortion against Rangers. It helps to counter kiting without putting BF on cooldown. Plus you’ve went 30 into Dueling, anyone with half a head on their shoulders’ll roll DE with that many Major slots.

shimmerless.4560:

Saying “No shatter/use mantras (which mantras?)” is fine, but I like to use Distortion against Rangers. It helps to counter kiting without putting BF on cooldown. Plus you’ve went 30 into Dueling, anyone with half a head on their shoulders’ll roll DE with that many Major slots.

I think he said you can’t use a shatter build, but you can skill shatter. Taking away shatter would be like taking away the ranger’s pet.

If that mesmer died to a ranger, he was a bad mesmer and he should feel bad!

Rising Dusk.2408:

I won this match-up last night in WvW as the Ranger, actually. It was a really good duel.

He feedbacked me during my LB 2, but I canceled it and dodged out of it at the same time. Also, he had gotten 2 iZerkers up at one point, but I took the time to assign my pet to kill one while I swapped to SB and killed the other. It was a very intense fight, and I nearly lost twice, but I pulled out ahead with a few good crits and CCs (Wolf fear was really what got him in the end; I interrupted his heal with it). I cannot say that we were the same skill level, but from fighting him I definitely got the feeling that I was fighting a talented opponent, and he earned a /bow from me after I stomped him.

My main weap, however, was not the LB, it was the SB. The LB was my weapon switch for 2 through 5, and not for its 1. The Mesmer was GS / Sword + Focus. I can’t say for sure what his spec was, but he wasn’t shattering and was using mantras, so my assertion is that he probably closely fit the bill of the OP’s statement.

Interesting post, and I guess if it’s something we can catch on tape then it’s a sign that even rangers can win fights

Atherakhia.4086:

Not sure the class would matter. Mesmer is the best class in the game currently and what’s shocking is it doesn’t appear to be that overpowered in doing it.

I really agree with this post, after lvling a necro to 80 I started a mes and while I can shatter down whole groups of trash mobs if i’m not focused or paying attention I can quickly go down. Mesmer isn’t overpowered but mesmer players have always been some of the most shrewd and tricky players even in gw1. mesmer players just take the time to really MASTER their class and that makes them seem OP

Qwyksylver Vyqtunos.6312:

Atherakhia.4086:

Not sure the class would matter. Mesmer is the best class in the game currently and what’s shocking is it doesn’t appear to be that overpowered in doing it.

I really agree with this post, after lvling a necro to 80 I started a mes and while I can shatter down whole groups of trash mobs if i’m not focused or paying attention I can quickly go down. Mesmer isn’t overpowered but mesmer players have always been some of the most shrewd and tricky players even in gw1. mesmer players just take the time to really MASTER their class and that makes them seem OP

So I guese only skilled players pick thief and d/d ele also.

Nova.8021:

Two glass cannon specialized classes wearing berserker gear are about to enter a grassland plain and fight to the death.

The Mesmer is concentrated on single dps and buffs his phantasms wherever possible without sacrificing damage from himself. He uses mantras and he is not a shatter build.
(30/30/0/0/10)

The Ranger is concentrated on single target dps as well choosing to buff his own dps over his pets, but traits to support the pet wherever a sacrifice of his own dps would not occur.
(30/30/0/0/10)

Rules:
Vote for which class you think would win and add why if possible.

Do NOT talk about condition builds, Trap builds, or Shatter builds, just what you think would make the classes more even in this 1v1 to the death (such as buffs, trait/skill/ability here or add something) and/or why they are not even now.

Now have at it!

Mesmer. Don’t even run numbers. Just, mesmer.

Qwyksylver Vyqtunos.6312:

Mesmer isn’t overpowered but mesmer players have always been some of the most shrewd and tricky players even in gw1. mesmer players just take the time to really MASTER their class and that makes them seem OP

As I recall, mesmers always were touted as being “difficult to master, but very potent once mastered”.

One skilled mesmer in a party in GW1 made things tremendously easier in several places.

This seems like it could be a fun discussion if the classes were more appropriate…. saaay engineer vs ranger or mesmer vs ele.

But… as it is, mesmer, not much reason to defend my stance lol

Red Falcon.8257:

Depends on the player.
If both players are equally skilled Mesmer will win, because a well played Mes is much stronger than a well-played Engi (good luck beating a tank Mesmer), sadly Ranger is a bit weak from a PvP perspective.
If they are bad well, the fight would be pretty embarassing to look at and pretty much down to luck.

This is WvW tho right?
If sPvP I don’t even consider the fight, the big limitations on stat choice always kept me away from that.

Hehe I remember taking down overconfident tanks in GW1. I even 1v1ed one in a GVG setting after a verbal argument that escalated, but I took note of what he was bragging about before the fight and equipped for it. =D

Mesmer, I dont even think the ranger would have close to a shot (no pun intended).

The ranger just doesnt have the burst or survivability compared to a mesmer. Stealths and all that just confuse the enemy too much and givbes the mesmer alot of free time to get his deadly combos off.

edit: Since it’s also a specific Mantra build, I assume 16% extra damage from the start, just this would kill or take the ranger close to death with a GS#2, zerk, mind wrack and 3 mantra DD.

Mujen.5287:

rather than the pit of hate brewing relentlessly.

There’s a reason for it, as well as ANet’s silence on the bedlam going on inside these forums. Reminds me of D3 backlash.

Haha, I come back home to find a very constructive thread and this makes me happy.

On a side note, if anyone wants to do their own match-ups with a similar title I will not take offense.

My personal opinion is that although the ranger has his own sort of controllable AI the damage output from what I have seen of the phantasms (My 80 Mesmer) are devastatingly higher in comparison. Since the Mesmer can throw out multiple I think they would need a buff of the pet or ranger in some regard to contend with that, but keeping in mind it is a tough mechanic to balance against undoubtedly.

SneakyErvin.3056:

The ranger just doesnt have the burst or survivability compared to a mesmer. Stealths and all that just confuse the enemy too much and givbes the mesmer alot of free time to get his deadly combos off.

Thing about the recent patch, stealth doesn’t confuse the pet.
Thus if you have someone stealthing against you, you follow the pet, and don’t end up confused.
Also as the phantasms are cast against the player not the pet, most likely, the pet won’t chase them either because the mesmer will still be higher on their agro chart, because the ranger will have sent it after them.
But yes the mesmer should still win.

Ranger would be dead in seconds maybe nano seconds…

I’m a Ranger main, but i also own a Mesmer, there is zero competition…Ranger has no chance..its too useless as a class to compete.

Dante.1508:

Ranger would be dead in seconds maybe nano seconds…

I’m a Ranger main, but i also own a Mesmer, there is zero competition…Ranger has no chance..its too useless as a class to compete.

Seconds? Well less than a minute for sure, unless they went very evasive and tried to keep going as long as possible. I don’t know how they’re “useless” as a blanket statement. I think they are an uneven match against a mesmer, but I definitely know they can possibly do it.

Not in the framework presented by the OP. But it can be done.

It depends very much on the players more than build. In a vacuum, the Ranger would have to try much much harder to win than the Mesmer would ever have to and that alone makes it a very one sided match.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Dante.1508:

Ranger would be dead in seconds maybe nano seconds…

I’m a Ranger main, but i also own a Mesmer, there is zero competition…Ranger has no chance..its too useless as a class to compete.

Seconds? Well less than a minute for sure, unless they went very evasive and tried to keep going as long as possible. I don’t know how they’re “useless” as a blanket statement. I think they are an uneven match against a mesmer, but I definitely know they can possibly do it.

Not in the framework presented by the OP. But it can be done.

Mesmer is everything, Ranger is nothing….in PvP

What i mean is Mesmer can do so much in so many rolls and are constantly good in everything they do, Rangers are ok in some basic rolls and fall down in so many others, they have very little to offer in most pvp based situations and i find hard to believe this match up would last long at all..

Ranger is just a huge let down in PvP scenarios..

Mesmer. Ranger’s ranged is sort of a joke atm.

That and the ranger looks like it was designed to defend atop walls and stay at the back end of the fight using the pet as a distraction. Of course this only works if the opponent is stupid.

Meanwhile we have the mesmer which is a born duelist class.

Are we allowed to use Moa? :X

Unless the fight starts while the mesmer is afk

Mesmer for the win

I have an 80 ranger i know what its like fighting mesmers they are like kittenroaches, killed him pop, killed him again pop will you just stand still so i know which one of you to kill and so my pet can catch up and actually get in the fight.

mesmer would win, just because the targeting system in this game is balls…. especially balls when you are fighting someone who summons adds and goes stealthed…. Not to mention confusion, and invulnerability.

Seriously speaking though, as a mesmer, I am only wary of 1vs1 against dagger elems (sometimes guardians too when they use that stupid kitten hammer) and thieves to a lesser extent. I don’t think there is a ranger build out there suited for soloing a mesmer.. Are condition build rangers any good?

This boils down to player skill.

I’m lvl23 (mesmer is my main) in sPvP right now and I’ve been doing nothing but tournaments as of late. Currently I fear Rangers the most. I’ve met some pretty epic players who know every aspect of the Mesmer; knowing exactly how to counter etc.