Guild Wars 2

The OP is what is wrong with society of today. He let’s others opinions and what others tell him dicate what he thinks feel. I myself have my own mind and opinion and reading something does not dicate it. He and others like him are why Firefly was canceled too.:p

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

There’s nothing wrong with leaving your constructive feedback on the forum when you leave. I encourage you to do so as it helps the developers make a better game.

The problem is people are leaving their constructive feedback on why they left and then repeating it over and over for days and days until the rest of us feel like our forums are being held hostage by them.

There is a practical impossibility to tell who has actually left the game, since there isn’t a monthly fee and unless someone asks for a refund (in which case their account is deactivated and I doubt they can still post), someone could have materially stopped playing but is still a customer with a right to voice his/her opinions.

Besides this, I understand where you come from, but I think you guys should try and switch your point of view a bit.

The reason we keep posting is ArenaNet hasn’t even aknowledged the existence of our negative feedback, let alone saying they are doing something with it. So we keep repeating things because it’s the only way we have to let them know that ignoring our feedback is not making us magically accept their new direction or get accustomed with it.

We want them to know that, if they want to settle things, they have to confront us honestly and not ignore us. And since there isn’t a subscription we can cancel to give them a clear message, either we keep posting our dissatisfaction or we actually forget about this game and move on.

Which is something some of us are not prepared to do just yet, and ArenaNet should thank us for that.

People are more likely to speak up or post in a forum if they have complaints than if they want to praise a product or service. This is true across all forms of mechandise. Don’t make the mistake in assuming the general response in the forums is a good indication of the entire player base, it is not.

Moddo.7105:

The OP is what is wrong with society of today. He let’s others opinions and what others tell him dicate what he thinks feel. I myself have my own mind and opinion and reading something does not dicate it. He and others like him are why Firefly was canceled too.:p

You might not be dictated by others opinions, by marketing or similar means of directing your habits towards certain areas, but I sincerely doubt that you are not influenced by them. Buying a product is a financial risk based on marketing that may lie, experiences that may no longer be true, memory that could be inaccurate and hope that may be misplaced. Anything you choose to purchase is done for a reason. That you bought GW2 based on any of these things suggests that at some point you were convinced that this was a good idea, and even choosing to play the beta without handing out any money suggests that you felt it would be a worthwhile investment of your time.

The OP isn’t the problem with society today. (One) problem is people thinking that their opinions and experiences should overwhelm those of others and that those whose opinions differ are, as a result, less valuable to discussion when in fact discussion and debate relies on them to be constructive and not pointless echo chambers.

dendrite.2031:

The second reason why I slowly stopped playing that game, and my main point of this post, is that the community told me not to like it!

That seems kind of silly in my view. Would you let people tell you not to love your significant other?

If you love the game, play it with other people that love it – and there are LOTS of us, servers are busting at the seams with players that love the game

Most of the opinions expressed on the forums are pure sabotage, nothing more, and mostly the same players posting copious amounts and trying to push the agenda of another MMO. You can safely ignore it.

Medazolam.3058:

People are more likely to speak up or post in a forum if they have complaints than if they want to praise a product or service. This is true across all forms of mechandise. Don’t make the mistake in assuming the general response in the forums is a good indication of the entire player base, it is not.

But don’t make the mistake of thinking they are ALWAYS a vocal minority either…
better businesses have fallen over such vantity.

Truth is that foriums are a limited form of feedback, but at the same time they are the most clear form of feedback.

Forum outcries should never be ignored or dismissed as unimportant, or not representative.

They might be a minority, but it’s actually safer to assume they are showing a major concern.
Players often try to call the forum complaints unimportant, but I reckon Arenanet takes them extremely serious as an indicator.
Than it’s still up to them to follow that indicator or not.

Arenanet can handle their forums well enough. I’m always surprised to see posts of players trying to do that job for them…
As if Arenanet is too stupid to handle the information themselves and they need players to filter the forums first.

Karizee.8076:

Most of the opinions expressed on the forums are pure sabotage, nothing more, and mostly the same players posting copious amounts and trying to push the agenda of another MMO. You can safely ignore it.

This is a good example of a player having a stroke of conspiracy theory, while I’m sure no Arenanet dev actually believes this to be true…

Please stop thinking most players complain because of another game.
They complain because of THIS game.

Relentliss.2170:

Your answer is simple don’t visit the forum. Forums are where people come to debate. Things are unlikely to settle down… maybe for months.

If only that were so, but I’m afraid it hasn’t been for a few years. People come onto MMO forums to rage about every conceivable little issue.Anyone else who comes on here merely to “debate” are quickly drowned out by the general rage quit narrative that completely holds court here.

I’ve just had a second run through of the story mode quest, Forging the Pact and was astounded by how much tighter and more slick that quest is now. Likewise, A Light in the Darkness is now far less meandering, the ridiculous scaling has been tamed a little, and I found both of these formerly despised quests to be completely bug free.

I’ve been able to complete every single zone I’ve recently hit, right up to level 68. Not a single bugged heart or skill point, perhaps one bugged dynamic event in, well, a hundred odd that I’ve participated in?

I haven’t seen a bot in over a week on my server, only three weeks ago it was absolutely infested with them. Similarly, the gold spammers are pretty much a rarity suddenly. How long the cease fire holds I don’t know, but I’m impressed by this almost total annihilation of the RMT forces of darkness.

In the last month, we’ve received two major content releases, one holiday event that was in my opinion a tremendous success, and one timed event that was highly ambitious but hampered by performance issues, bugs etc.

Tl;Dr -What I’m trying to say is that all of these issues were considered major enough for people to threaten to rage quit on a daily basis on this rancid, bad tempered forum. And they got fixed. They’re actually so proactive compared to most subbed MMO developers, that I have every faith that they will have learned from the one time event problems and we’ll see significant improvements in their handling of them in the future. Because according to the evidence thus far, that’s how this developer seems to roll.

Arena Net, for all the doom saying, all the conspiracy mutterings, all the rage fueled emotional blackmail being fired at them, for all the missteps or the poor communication, all the potentially divisive design decisions…..despite all of that, they’re still working hard on their game, making strident efforts to deliver on most of what they promised.

This is not the signs of a game being run by a company that doesn’t care. And honestly, their effort deserves better than this increasingly vile community gives it.

I’ll be drowned in fanboy name calling and hair pulling for this, but actually I’m just calling it as I see it. And I reckon I’m a great deal more rational and open minded about it than the vast majority of haters that come on here.

Urxx.6840:

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

There’s nothing wrong with leaving your constructive feedback on the forum when you leave. I encourage you to do so as it helps the developers make a better game.

The problem is people are leaving their constructive feedback on why they left and then repeating it over and over for days and days until the rest of us feel like our forums are being held hostage by them.

There is a practical impossibility to tell who has actually left the game, since there isn’t a monthly fee and unless someone asks for a refund (in which case their account is deactivated and I doubt they can still post), someone could have materially stopped playing but is still a customer with a right to voice his/her opinions.

Besides this, I understand where you come from, but I think you guys should try and switch your point of view a bit.

The reason we keep posting is ArenaNet hasn’t even aknowledged the existence of our negative feedback, let alone saying they are doing something with it. So we keep repeating things because it’s the only way we have to let them know that ignoring our feedback is not making us magically accept their new direction or get accustomed with it.

We want them to know that, if they want to settle things, they have to confront us honestly and not ignore us. And since there isn’t a subscription we can cancel to give them a clear message, either we keep posting our dissatisfaction or we actually forget about this game and move on.

Which is something some of us are not prepared to do just yet, and ArenaNet should thank us for that.

You all have already made at least somewhat of an impact. As of this morning, across all servers, 4 are full, 3 are medium and the rest are high population. There are still plenty of people playing and enjoying the new content though.

If the numbers showed a larger scale of people leaving the game (a mass exodus), then I could see ANet changing it back to the old system. If, however, the new system brings in and retains more players than it loses, it would make financial sense for them to keep the new system in place.

It doesn’t change the fact that some of you are upset over what you see as a direct contradiction to their manifesto. The question is: were there enough of you who didn’t want end game progression enough to keep the game going over the long haul? I think a lot more people reached level 80 and left because there wasn’t the type of end game content that they expected than there were people who were just happy to explore and grind for cosmetic skins.

Kimbald.2697:

Truth is that foriums are a limited form of feedback, but at the same time they are the most clear form of feedback.

Also, if ArenaNet wants to make the point that the forums aren’t a reliable form of feedback because they don’t necessarily represent the whole community, then this should’ve also been true of the feedback about the “legendary wall” problem which led to the introduction of ascended gear.

Either the forums are reliable as a mean to survey the community’s stances on various issue, or they are not.

OP, this forum is pretty similar to the D3 forums. If you found the D3 forums detrimental to your enjoyment of the game then I strongly suggest you stick to discussing GW2 in-game and on your guild’s private forum.

By the sounds of it you’ll enjoy the game a lot more that way!

It’s a tad depressing around here – I prefer the in-game discussions.

Kimbald.2697:

Karizee.8076:

Most of the opinions expressed on the forums are pure sabotage, nothing more, and mostly the same players posting copious amounts and trying to push the agenda of another MMO. You can safely ignore it.

This is a good example of a player having a stroke of conspiracy theory, while I’m sure no Arenanet dev actually believes this to be true…

Please stop thinking most players complain because of another game.
They complain because of THIS game.

When you see posters with 9 pages of “I hate ANet because _______ and going to resub to _______” making a mess all over the forums it’s pretty easy to see.

Urxx.6840:

Kimbald.2697:

Truth is that foriums are a limited form of feedback, but at the same time they are the most clear form of feedback.

Also, if ArenaNet wants to make the point that the forums aren’t a reliable form of feedback because they don’t necessarily represent the whole community, then this should’ve also been true of the feedback about the “legendary wall” problem which led to the introduction of ascended gear.

Either the forums are reliable as a mean to survey the community’s stances on various issue, or they are not.

Yes.
I’m quite sure Arenanet will pick out the feedback they can use for their own plans, and try to minimise the feedback that doesn’t fit them.
As any company would.

But that doesn’t mean they don’t want that feedback they don’t like or can use.
It’s better to know than not know…

Because it always can happen that the feedback is so huge, that you better make some adjustments, even if wasn’t your plan.
As they did for haloween and it was pretty clear they never intended to introduce the second type of chests.

By telling complainers to shut up, the players are not doing Arenanet a favor.
Just let Arenanet use what they want, and dismiss what they can get away with.
They’re big boys and girls, they can handle themselves…

All game forums are like this. I chose my signature for that reason

But an appeal to the community to tone down is a lost cause. Right now one group of people is upset in the hopes they can get Anet to listen to them. This won’t stop until they feel it’s pointless to comment on it anymore. That might be a while.

By that time the next issue will come up and the next group will start flaming. It’s just a reality of game forums and human nature in general. If it affects you that much, just ignore the general forum. That’s all you can really do….fair or not.

proxy.7963:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

The problem is that many of us have no place to go. This was it – the reason we came out of MMOG retirement, the reason we updated our computers or bought new ones, the reason we bought a new gaming mouse and headhphones, the reason we put $100’s of dollars each into the gem store even though we didn’t really need it; this was our AAA shining city on the hill that would actually have a permanent cap on stat progression at a point that was realistically attainable even by casual players. We sold our homes (figuratively speaking), packed our stuff and moved into Shangri-La.

10 weeks later, we are thrown out of paradise. Unfortunately for you, the time we would have been spending playing other games is now being used to vent our frustrations and attempt to change things back, because now those other games are just not worth playing any more.

I legitimately feel sorry for these people. I sympathize. I enjoyed GW1 for a while and then realised I was chasing after something I didn’t honestly care about, so I stopped playing. I’ve never played a MMO between then and GW2. If anyone invested hundreds of dollars based on what was essentially sales spiel and good intentions, that’s a terrible position to be in and I hope that perhaps they make their investment opportunities with a little more consideration in the future. I honestly wish you didn’t feel so disappointed.

An issue I have with this is not that people are expressing their disappointment, but the feeling that they are choosing to do so in a way that could be considered to involve souring the community by their actions – actions that they may feel are warranted. Those who are strongly against recent changes have exhibited dismissive and occasionally mocking attitudes towards those who don’t share their opinions when they should – by all rights – be taking a higher moral ground. The forums aren’t just for feedback – they should be about building and maintaining a positive community as well, not simply to be used as a podium for people to voice their upset. I’m fine with that upset in itself, I just question the use of moderation and sensitivity towards those who would rather not see dozens of repetitions every day of the same topics by the same posters.

Well, let me provide another perspective: perhaps you should be upset right along with us, even if you are still enjoying the game, and even if you prefer the new item progression direction of GW2. Holding people and companies accountable for their good faith representations should be something we all stand up for, regardless of whether or not we personally happen to enjoy their product or the particular features that come and go.

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

You all have already made at least somewhat of an impact. As of this morning, across all servers, 4 are full, 3 are medium and the rest are high population. There are still plenty of people playing and enjoying the new content though.

If the numbers showed a larger scale of people leaving the game (a mass exodus), then I could see ANet changing it back to the old system. If, however, the new system brings in and retains more players than it loses, it would make financial sense for them to keep the new system in place.

It doesn’t change the fact that some of you are upset over what you see as a direct contradiction to their manifesto. The question is: where there enough of you who didn’t want end game progression enough to keep the game going over the long haul? I think a lot more people reached level 80 and left because there wasn’t the type of end game content that they expected than there were people who were just happy to explore and grind for cosmetic skins.

I highly doubt the server status shows how many players are actually online at any given time, but rather how many accounts have that server as a home server. Otherwise it should mean that concurrent accesses are way higher now than they were at launch, which is quite unlikely.

XFire and other similar sites show a big decline in players online since then. The very decline I suspect lead ANet to introduce ascended gear.

Also, I can’t speak for others, but personally I’m not posting to boycott the game’s success. I don’t want a dead game with horizontal progression, it wouldn’t help anybody.

All I want is to push ArenaNet to talk MEANINGFULLY with that part of the player base who thinks that the manifesto was a good idea and all GW2 needed was more endgame content and not a new tier of gear.

Karizee.8076:

Kimbald.2697:

Karizee.8076:

Most of the opinions expressed on the forums are pure sabotage, nothing more, and mostly the same players posting copious amounts and trying to push the agenda of another MMO. You can safely ignore it.

This is a good example of a player having a stroke of conspiracy theory, while I’m sure no Arenanet dev actually believes this to be true…

Please stop thinking most players complain because of another game.
They complain because of THIS game.

When you see posters with 9 pages of “I hate ANet because _______ and going to resub to _______” making a mess all over the forums it’s pretty easy to see.

So by the same logic all those posts saying ‘thank you Anet’ are people pushing the agenda of Arenanet, instead of actually making sincere comments on the game?

It’s not ‘pretty’ easy to see’ from those 9 pages that people are pushing the agenda of other games.
It mostly shows they aren’t happy with how THIS game turns out.

Stop using the flawed argument that most criticism comes from some biased agenda to push other games and discredit GW2.
You only keep yourself blind by doing that.

Only if you acknowledge the feedback, you can use it to your benefit.
I can not imagine any dev of Arenanet even remotely believing what you say.
The moment they believe your theory, they lose all contact with their playerbase and the game will suffer from it.

I’m not saying adding Ascended gear is a wrongdoing Don’t you understand that?, I’m saying selling me a product saying it will have A and not B to change the nature of the product so that it has B not A is a wrongdoing. Don’t you understand that? It’s called scamming. Don’t you understand that? And as I said before, I can’t get my money back because they made the change more than 6 months after initial pre-purchases. Don’t you understand that?

Are you delusional? Did you read the terms at least? They haven´t changed the nature of the product. It’s still a fantasy based MMORPG so your argument is heavily flawed.

Scamming? Can you point exactly where did they scam you. Where in the terms do they say they can’t include/update content as they see fit?

I’m the one asking, don’t YOU understand that??

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

You all have already made at least somewhat of an impact. As of this morning, across all servers, 4 are full, 3 are medium and the rest are high population. There are still plenty of people playing and enjoying the new content though.

That’s not a good way to see how much people are playing. The limits on servers are dynamic, and Anet can apparently change them on the fly (they did it before events). All that tells you is as close the player number is to the current limit, but you have no way of knowing of the limit is higher, lower or the same as it was few days before.

Agenteusa.6380:

I’m the one asking, don’t YOU understand that??

If you were actually reading the forums lately, you’d have answers to those questions. Everything has been clearly explained ad nauseum, time and time again.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Well, let me provide another perspective: perhaps you should be upset right along with us, even if you are still enjoying the game, and even if you prefer the new item progression direction of GW2. Holding people and companies accountable for their good faith representations should be something we all stand up for, regardless of whether or not we personally happen to enjoy their product or the particular features that come and go.

It’s difficult to be upset on the behalf on someone else, particularly as it risks misrepresenting their reasoning or appropriating their concerns. I said I sympathize because I do – I’m sure this is all very uncomfortable, particularly the feeling that you’ve been lied to. However, I’m of the mind that I would rather focus any upset I feel over actions towards things I’m personally passionate about. If you’re passionate about GW2, that’s great, and ensuring accountability for companies marketing their products based on lies is also great. But if we expect anyone to feel accountable for their actions, we should do the same – and those denying the idea that their method of expression is spoiling someone else’s fun aren’t really supporting that ideal. We should all be open to criticism.

Something being worse that a thing doesn’t make that thing instantly better.
It can just be “less bad”.

Every step GW2 gets further away from the Manifesto makes the game worse for all but those that came from way worse games.

They not noticing doesn’t mean it is not happening.

It’s like when someone works in a garbage dump. They get used to the horrible smell so much, that when they get to a place that stinks less, they think it doesn’t stink, but those who come from a cleaner place will notice it.

The human brain just works like that.

Agenteusa.6380:

Are you delusional? Did you read the terms at least? They haven´t changed the nature of the product. It’s still a fantasy based MMORPG so your argument is heavily flawed.

Scamming? Can you point exactly where did they scam you. Where in the terms do they say they can’t include/update content as they see fit?

I’m the one asking, don’t YOU understand that??

Have you watched the Manifesto video from Arenanet? If not or if it’s been a while watch it again and LISTEN to what they explain about their philosophy.

I understand if you like the new approach, but if you watch that video where they proclaim their way of doing things and compare it to this new direction, you must surely see that they are not a match.

I am not arguing here what’s good or bad about GW2. Just saying that when you hear what Anet have been saying over the years and what they are doing now, you can only conclude it’s not the same.

Truly, I invite you to watch that manifesto video. It’s still here on the official website and on youtube. No one who can reason can argue that this new direction fits what they said in this video and all the other interviews and press releases they did.

Whether you like this new direction or not is besides the point.

dendrite.2031:

Dear Gamers,

Lately I’ve been coming on here and noticing many new topics on why you all do not like this game anymore. You are disheartened by this or that, and GW2 is not like this or that game, including its predecessor.

As someone who played another game recently, which I will not name, but I’m sure you all know which one I’m talking about, the third part of a very popular dungeon-crawling action RPG series.., ahem..I am seeing the same sort of topics on this forum as on that other game’s forum. Guess what, I no longer play that game.

What I want to say is, I no longer play that game for two reasons. One: it was in fact a difficult game with little to almost no reward for playing the game, and incredibly hard to even find ONE piece of legendary and USEFUL gear. This game does not have that problem. This game is extremely rewarding, and it’s fun to play. Despite it’s flaws, because I won’t argue that it’s not perfect, IT IS STILL FUN TO PLAY! The second reason why I slowly stopped playing that game, and my main point of this post, is that the community told me not to like it!

That’s right!

All of the people who spent so much time coming up with long, argumentative, well thought out posts about the game mechanics, loot rates, skill sets, etc, and with plenty of good points to prove or support their arguments, took the fun out of the game for me!

Now, I know what you’re all thinking: “Well then don’t read the posts!”

It’s hard NOT to read the posts when they flood the forum because all it takes are few people to get this ball of hate rolling. Frankly, leave my game alone. Let me finish getting my exotic gear, my legendary weapons, and let me finish exploring the rest of Tyria. I do not want to come here and see so many posts about why this game sucks or how much you are all disappointed.

Now, we may be going through some rough times here, new patches, it is a brand new game still in its baby stages, but I believe this game will have more content as time goes on, and will become more challenging and also more rewarding. Lost Shores seems like a good example of this.

So please, I beg the gamer community, do NOT ruin my experience of this game by trying to make everyone believe that this game sucks, or is flawed, hopeless, or whatever! If you don’t like it, like someone else said, go that way ->

Leave this community pure, and without so much hatred, anger, or whatever disappointment you may feel. It’s a game, a free one at that aside from the initial purchase price. Let me enjoy my game, and have a nice day.

The only one to ruin this game for you, is you. The other cry babies can not if you don’t let them. Just ignore them and continue getting your preferred gear.They haven’t changed my view about this game at all. They have proven to me that we don’t have a very good community. Ignore the hate and anger. Yes, I know it is aggravating. But the true fans like you and I will still be playing GW2. Not all content we get will be all happy happy joy joy.. But I am in this game through thick and thin. Happy Thanksgiving and have a great one and stop letting the others bring you down.

I am with the OP here i have quit reading the forums that get into so much bickering.

I played eq2 for 7 years and found that most of what is said on the forums means very little in game anyway most folks dont even come to them anyway.

the op is not being very logical with their request anyhow.

ask everyone to leave, then when the game is ghost-town how is it actually better than it was before?

also its been my experience that when the forums get to the point that people have to ask the community to stop arguing and complaining things usually go downhill from there.

anyhow i am personally not on the forums complaining as much anymore. i might check once a day for a few minutes, then i go play something else. i realize that no amount of me complaining is going to change the game in a reasonable amount of time, so i might as well just play something else and move on.

the only reason i even check at all is i really had my hopes up, and i have some small amount of hope that the devs might actually realize that people dont need or want another pve treadmill and attempt to correct their mistake.

Belteshazzar.6307:

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

D3 community anger was: company’s fault
GW2 community anger is: company’s fault
Pretty clear, isn’t it

Maybe but maybe not..
Some just argue for the sake of arguing..
Some do it to make them feel better about themselves.
Some do it to feel like they are a part of something.

Honestly, I for one dont care about which direction GW2 goes. Even though lot of you say its turning into another WoW clone its still an entirely different game.

The very reason we come here is to make sure that this game does NOT turn into a SWTOR or a WoW That’s why our posts have been negative of late.

And think about it would anyone post anything negative if we didn’t care about the game? NO we’d simply move on

I come here because I care about the games direction because I don’t want it’s future muddied by the gear treadmill gearscore dpsmeter croud like what happened in WoW. This game was never meant to be that and I will complain about it moving in that direction until they make changes to prevent the future updates from heading that way.

Besides, it’s clear in every profession forum, they have a ton of bugs they need to fix in every class before they add any new content in the near future.

If you were actually reading the forums lately, you’d have answers to those questions. Everything has been clearly explained ad nauseum, time and time again.

The question wasn’t for you. And stop being vague I asked a question about something that’s been said and provided answers to it.

Have you watched the Manifesto video from Arenanet? If not or if it’s been a while watch it again and LISTEN to what they explain about their philosophy.

I understand if you like the new approach, but if you watch that video where they proclaim their way of doing things and compare it to this new direction, you must surely see that they are not a match.

I am not arguing here what’s good or bad about GW2. Just saying that when you hear what Anet have been saying over the years and what they are doing now, you can only conclude it’s not the same.

Truly, I invite you to watch that manifesto video. It’s still here on the official website and on youtube. No one who can reason can argue that this new direction fits what they said in this video and all the other interviews and press releases they did.

Whether you like this new direction or not is besides the point.

Yes , I read the manifesto. And I agree with some things and I disagree with others. What I disagree is people that think they are the owners of the game content. They are not.
The manifesto is as you rightly proclaimed it their philosophy. Well my point is they can change their philosophy anytime they want and as they please.
My answer to the post above was purely because someone now is saying they wanted a refund because ANet changed the “nature” of the game???
No they didn’t period. This isn’t even a discussion.
Bottom line is only I’m fed up with posts that have no logic whatsoever.
Some don’t like the gear treadmill, some do. It was their philosophy to not make a treadmill, well they changed it. They are entitled to it. Like it fine, keep playing, don’t like it don’t come here with futuristic predictions and “it’s the end of GW2” posts.
Move on like I did in several other mmo’s when my requirements to play weren’t fulfilled.
GW2 is ANet’s son. It’s not our property.

The very reason we come here is to make sure that this game does NOT turn into a SWTOR or a WoW That’s why our posts have been negative of late.

SWTOR’s downfall was indeed scamming. What triggered(although I’m sure it isn’t the only reason) it was the descisions on the inclusion of ranked pvp. They announced it would come in patch X and players resubbed and at the last minute they said it wasn’t ready. That is scamming because players payed to play content not delivered to them in the due time.

As for Wow , I can’t really say it’s a downfall yet. I don’t play it anymore personally but it still has a pretty strong playerbase.

@OP Don’t read those threads if they make QQ. Your thread is actually worse than their’s in my opinion.

OP, while I respect the well meant intentions of your post, I have to disagree with you. Does this depress you? Does it mean every time someone doesn’t agree with you that you are consumed with feelings of depression and failure? If someone dislikes the foods, movies or music you love, does it suddenly rob you of your joy towards those things?

At the risk of sounding flippant, it is a fact that if you find a conflict of opinion being discussed distressing to the point where it affects you as emotionally as you claim, you have some issues that require some help. Life is not happy bubbkitten uncing together politely. Life is a never ending cascade of conflict and criticism, how we handle such things is what defines us.

Diablo 3 was majorly flawed at launch. It took massive backlash from the community to get the developers to do some major reworking to get the simple things right that should have never been wrong from the beginning. It was only after the massive backlash from the community that much of D3 changed for the better. Had the backlash not have been as bad as it was, D3 legendaries would probably still suck today. Inferno would probably be only played with one or two builds per class (ignoring the rest of diversity). Some things are so bad for a game and so unenjoyable and contrary to what players what, it takes a massive backlash to get rid of them and put the developers back on track.

So far the criticism in this forum has been much more constructive than the average post on the D3 forums. These forums were no-where near as bad two weeks ago compared to what they currently are. Much of the dissent has been a direct response to decisions and actions of ArenaNet. If players don’t have well reasoned arguments and posts about what they dislike about these decisions, it’s very likely bad design decisions will stick in the game and things we could have potentially changed, flaws that could have been fixed to make a better experience for us all, they will go by the way side and people might not quit because they think the game sucks because of what they read on the forums, they will quit because ArenaNet made bone headed decisions and no-one told them it was dumb so the game was worse off because of it.

Honestly, the Lost Shores is the worst content in the game as far as gameplay goes. I don’t know why you would cite it as an example of good content. Novelty I guess.

Agenteusa.6380:

If you were actually reading the forums lately, you’d have answers to those questions. Everything has been clearly explained ad nauseum, time and time again.

The question wasn’t for you. And stop being vague I asked a question about something that’s been said and provided answers to it.

Have you watched the Manifesto video from Arenanet? If not or if it’s been a while watch it again and LISTEN to what they explain about their philosophy.

I understand if you like the new approach, but if you watch that video where they proclaim their way of doing things and compare it to this new direction, you must surely see that they are not a match.

I am not arguing here what’s good or bad about GW2. Just saying that when you hear what Anet have been saying over the years and what they are doing now, you can only conclude it’s not the same.

Truly, I invite you to watch that manifesto video. It’s still here on the official website and on youtube. No one who can reason can argue that this new direction fits what they said in this video and all the other interviews and press releases they did.

Whether you like this new direction or not is besides the point.

Yes , I read the manifesto. And I agree with some things and I disagree with others. What I disagree is people that think they are the owners of the game content. They are not.
The manifesto is as you rightly proclaimed it their philosophy. Well my point is they can change their philosophy anytime they want and as they please.
My answer to the post above was purely because someone now is saying they wanted a refund because ANet changed the “nature” of the game???
No they didn’t period. This isn’t even a discussion.
Bottom line is only I’m fed up with posts that have no logic whatsoever.
Some don’t like the gear treadmill, some do. It was their philosophy to not make a treadmill, well they changed it. They are entitled to it. Like it fine, keep playing, don’t like it don’t come here with futuristic predictions and “it’s the end of GW2” posts.
Move on like I did in several other mmo’s when my requirements to play weren’t fulfilled.
GW2 is ANet’s son. It’s not our property.

Perhaps we don’t own it but we invested money and time into it based on certainly promises they made. If you cannot trust what they say to the point that they go the complete opposite direction of what they have said and done before, it’s not strange people are unhappy about it.

Like it or not, it DOES make this game an entirely different type of game. The focus has changed. So the anger at that is justified.

The logic is simple. I buy something because of reason A. They change A. I feel cheated.

If you cannot grasp this then you have a problem. I cannot make it more simple than that. Now, I do get that most companies if not all are liberal with the truth but a complete 180 is a big deal. It just completely changes what this game is about.

If you bought a box with ingredients to make chococolate cake. If you then make it and it doesn’t look exactly like the picture, you would kinda figure that’s how it goes. But if you open the box to find ingredients for a strawberry cake, you may be ok with that if you like strawberry cake as well even.

If you really wanted a chocolate cake though, this discovery would be disappointing and you may go back to the store and complain. I know I would.

If the store then says, well it’s a cake (MMORPG) so what’s the problem? You might get upset even. And this is what happened here.

So yes it’s still a MMORPG, it’s still fantasy but it’s not what people thought they bought, in fact it’s turning into an opposite style of game.

I would advise you to stop calling other people unreasonable simply because you disagree with them. It’s not a lack of logic, but perhaps unclear communication and lack of understanding or even a lack of a wish to understand it from your point of view.

I cannot make it more clear than this in any case. If you still don’t see the point, I cannot help you. I can assure you though this is quite logical to many people. And please note that understanding it doesn’t mean you have to agree with it. Those are completely different things.

Edit: Oh and whether you disagree or agree with the manifesto is not point. It’s that that’s what they said and now they went a different way and people bought the game because of the approach Anet had before this change.

Agenteusa.6380:

SWTOR’s downfall was indeed scamming. What triggered(although I’m sure it isn’t the only reason) it was the descisions on the inclusion of ranked pvp. They announced it would come in patch X and players resubbed and at the last minute they said it wasn’t ready. That is scamming because players payed to play content not delivered to them in the due time.

I really don’t see why you consider that very different from here. They said there wouldn’t be vertical progression, poeple purchased and at the last minute they said they’d add a new tier of gear.

The only real difference I see is that you disliked ranked pvp in SWTOR while you are fine with vertical progression in GW2.

I wouldn’t call that being objective.

Like it or not, it DOES make this game an entirely different type of game. The focus has changed. So the anger at that is justified.

The logic is simply. I buy something because of reason A. They change A. I feel cheated.

If you cannot grasp this then you have a problem. I cannot make it more simple than that. Now, I do get that most companies if not all are liberal with the truth but a complete 180 is a big deal. It just completely changes what this game is about.

Yes it makes the game different but the anger is still not justifiable.

And please don’t make cake analogies. I’m not a donkey. But since you wanna go that route let me explain it to you why your analogy is flawed.

When you buy a product A (let´s say a cake) you don’t abide by any terms and don’t have to agree to them. You buy a chocolate cake and from the 1st to the last bite you know it will always be chocolate. The seller that sold you the cake isn’t going to change your cake to vanilla after you give it a bite because he has no right to do that.

You bought a game here and if you read the terms and agreement (you know that box that no one taht complains ever reads) you will notice they reserve the rights to make changes however they see fit. I think this part is covered.

Now I’m not here to discuss moral issues. You and others feel cheated and you have every right to. What I don’t think you are entitled to is to force, and start menacing and armaggedon type threads just because they enforced something you accepted in the first place.
SWTOR went in a direction I didn’t like I quit. Some of my friends didn’t have that problem so they kept playing. I’m not the center of the world , thats why I did it without any fuss about it.
I don’t understand why other can’t behave similarly or at least try to understand GW2 or any otehr game is not ours to control and create despicable threads insulting devs, insulting company, basically talking thrash because if they aren’t having fun no one can have afun.

Agenteusa.6380:

As for Wow , I can’t really say it’s a downfall yet. I don’t play it anymore personally but it still has a pretty strong playerbase.

Ew, I can’t even look at that game after playing GW2, it’s so ugly.

If you don’t want your game ruined then perhaps refrain from being so counter productive in telling people to leave it. They fund future content.

Aion is down to 2 servers and still the clever folks there are telling anyone with a criticism to go.

If you don’t like what you read on the forums or are easily swayed by peoples opinions, then don’t come to the forums. It’s a pretty simple concept.

I really don’t see why you consider that very different from here. They said there wouldn’t be vertical progression, poeple purchased and at the last minute they said they’d add a new tier of gear.

The only real difference I see is that you disliked ranked pvp in SWTOR while you are fine with vertical progression in GW2.

I wouldn’t call that being objective.

They didn’t change anything in GW2 at the last minute. Almost 3 months have gone by. In SWTOR they said ranked pvp would be in from the beginning and they failed to deliver. People kept playing anyhow. They announced some 4-5 (can´t remember accurately) months later the ranked pvp was ready and would come out in patch X. At that point several players had put the game on hold. Curiously the patch was supposed to be release right at the end of a billing cycle. The day the patch was supposed to be released they announce some hours before that ranked pvp wouldn’t be in it. So that means lots of people payed for something that was announced and wasn’t delivered.

Sure they gave free time and crap but the scam was still there. I don’t see anything comparable in GW 2 , sorry.

And you might have misinterpreted me, I was waiting for ranked pvp in SWTOR so I was scammed.

I’m divided. I’m not a big fan of having to grind everytime a patch/expansion comes out but I’m also not a fan of sitting at endgame aiming at skins for character progression.

Urxx.6840:

The reason we keep posting is ArenaNet hasn’t even aknowledged the existence of our negative feedback, let alone saying they are doing something with it. So we keep repeating things because it’s the only way we have to let them know that ignoring our feedback is not making us magically accept their new direction or get accustomed with it.

We want them to know that, if they want to settle things, they have to confront us honestly and not ignore us.

That’s exactly why I am here, too. I stopped playing the game because I am confused about the changes in the game and the way they seem to contradict all the game seemed to be from what the developers said before.

I am on the forums instead because I am still waiting and hoping for an explanation, a real effort to address and clear up this mess.
If all of us are really just misunderstanding Anet’s intentions with this new Ascended Gear and the much feared “treadmill”, it can’t be so hard to just let us know as much. Let people know that they actually hear and understand what we are saying and why we are saying it, and then explain why there is no reason to be concerned. Put people’s minds at ease.

As it is, there was this very vague statement from Chris Whiteside a week ago, that said they are not going to add new gear for everyone to chase after every 3 months now.
Since there was no explanation at all about how the devs find that this new gear concept does not contradict their own manifesto and several statements they made before, one has to wonder more about what he did NOT say. Maybe no new gear with new stats every 3 months, but every 6 then? Gear based progress is a new core part of the game now all of a sudden but they don’t know how to explain it either so they just ignore all our asking about it?

We just want to know what we are in for, and the longer this lack of information or communication (or even acknowledgement!) from their side keeps up, the more people will get frustrated and upset about it. It won’t simply go away by iself.

The new blog post talked at length about the event and mentioned technical issues and who knows what, but not even a single word about the giant uproar about the new gear, which was also a major content of the patch.

Getting ignored makes people feel disrespected and not valued, and many of us are convinced to have legitimate concerns that we have a right to voice. Unless we actually feel heard and understood, I’m afraid this might not calm down anytime soon, because we still care.

Many of us feel attached to this game because we used to love it and all we assumed it to stand for. We need to know a direction now, what to think, if all is going to be ok again for what we hoped it to be or if it’s time to leave for good.
If I didn’t care anymore, I wouldn’t keep being on the forums, hoping for words and information from the officials.

dear OP,

try the Player helping Player forum,

this is the Discussion forum and obviously contains debate.

dendrite.2031:

Dear Gamers,

So please, I beg the gamer community, do NOT ruin my experience of this game by trying to make everyone believe that this game sucks, or is flawed, hopeless, or whatever! If you don’t like it, like someone else said, go that way ->

Leave this community pure, and without so much hatred, anger, or whatever disappointment you may feel. It’s a game, a free one at that aside from the initial purchase price. Let me enjoy my game, and have a nice day.

Dear Forum Reader,

So please, I beg you forum reader, do NOT ruin my experience of this forum by trying to make everyone believe that these complaints mean nothing, or are pointless, a waste of time, or whatever! If you don’t like it, like someone else said, go that way ->

Leave this community pure, and without so much hatred, anger, or whatever disappointment you may feel. It’s a forum, a free one. Let me enjoy my forum, and have a nice day.

Relentliss.2170:

Your answer is simple don’t visit the forum.

Lame, predictable, standard response.

Relentliss.2170:

Forums are where people come to debate.

“Forums are where people come to whine that the game isn’t exactly they way they’d have made it”.

Yah, everyone like to think of themselves as a dev.

===

The posts the OP describes depress me a bit too. It’s very hard for some people to accept that you’re playing a game of which you do not have control over the rules. People like to state things matter-of-factly as though they “are right” with posts such as “<Boss Mechanic> is bad. This is why.”, “This game just fails.” and “<Game Mechanic> is totally wrong. Here’s why.”.

Forums are a place where the community can share things they don’t like, so that the devs might get an idea of what the community as a whole is looking for in a game. There is nothing wrong with complaining, more the way they complain… There aren’t enough posts congratulating ArenaNet on an awesome game though, because when things are good – people are playing rather than forum trawling.

Agenteusa.6380:

They didn’t change anything in GW2 at the last minute. Almost 3 months have gone by. In SWTOR they said ranked pvp would be in from the beginning and they failed to deliver. People kept playing anyhow. They announced some 4-5 (can´t remember accurately) months later the ranked pvp was ready and would come out in patch X. At that point several players had put the game on hold. Curiously the patch was supposed to be release right at the end of a billing cycle. The day the patch was supposed to be released they announce some hours before that ranked pvp wouldn’t be in it. So that means lots of people payed for something that was announced and wasn’t delivered.

Sure they gave free time and crap but the scam was still there. I don’t see anything comparable in GW 2 , sorry.

And you might have misinterpreted me, I was waiting for ranked pvp in SWTOR so I was scammed.

I’m divided. I’m not a big fan of having to grind everytime a patch/expansion comes out but I’m also not a fan of sitting at endgame aiming at skins for character progression.

They did change things the last minute. The game was going in a completely different direction and all of a sudden you have this post saying that in a few days the game will abandon horizontal progression for vertical progression.

If that wasn’t abrupt I don’t know what is.

P.S. can you please include the poster name when you quote someone? It’s difficult to follow the conversation when all you quotes are anonymous. Thanks.

You summed up the problems with the ARPG you played perfectly. You smashed monsters endlessly without reward. That is why the forums there were toxic. Everyone knew that reward was a key element in ARPG’s and it was absent in the game. It was a change in the game from the franchise’s vision. It’s a simple matter of cause and effect and the forums didn’t cause the effect, they simply reflected the disappointment of the community. So, I agree with you about that other game, but disagree that the forums caused you to not like the game. In fact, if that game had changed to follow the ARPG formula, the forums there would have healed overnight. The forum issue is as simple as cause and effect. Don’t shoot the messenger.

Urxx.6840:

They did change things the last minute. The game was going in a completely different direction and all of a sudden you have this post saying that in a few days the game will abandon horizontal progression for vertical progression.

If that wasn’t abrupt I don’t know what is.

P.S. can you please include the poster name when you quote someone? It’s difficult to follow the conversation when all you quotes are anonymous. Thanks.

Sorry about the anonymous quote.

The difference should be obvious. SWTOR didn’t change directions. They officially anounced a feature for a certain release date and the day they scheduled that feature to be delivered they removed it causing lots of people to pay and not get what they were expecting to get.

In GW2 case, first it’s not even a subscription based mmo so you really can’t say you have been ripped. They purely changed their vision and that’s something they can and surely will continue to do if they see fit.
And besides you’re not paying anything for the content so…
Had ANet told me (if I was paying for a subscription) that let´s say November 29 X functionality would be released with a patch and I had to resubscribe to use it and on the 29th they removed it thne I would say it was a scam.

That wasn´t the case. They released a game with a certain philosophy. 3 months into the game they decided they should change that philosophy. I don’t know what’s your confusion here…:W

Reading the forums can be a bit of a downer for me too… then I go and actually play the game and start having fun again.

cherrie.8907:

I’m saying selling me a product saying it will have A and not B to change the nature of the product so that it has B not A is a wrongdoing.

You still don’t understand… Some people don’t consider AC as breaking the promise, like you do.

Cheers.

HiddenNick.7206:

cherrie.8907:

The amount of bitterness is proportional to the amount of wrongdoing (perceived).

What your calling “wrongdoing” other people may call it “doing the right thing”! Don’t you understand that?

HiddenNick, you don’t need to remain in the dark on this. Engage with issues, evaluate them, and employ critical thinking. All issues of personal preference ends when customers buy a product based on those preferences and find that the company has changed the product to meet the personal preferences of someone else. That’s the dynamic that is playing out here. We can know it and we can object to it.

kistell.5684:

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

You’re wrong. If you prepurchased online, you can have your refund. Guaranteed 100%, try.

I Purchased this game online a month after release , have asked for a refund and now they claim my paypal invoice is the wrong number no matter how many times i send it.
100% not in my case looks like they need an excuse not to give one.

This is an issue Anet and Paypal will be quite happy to help you to fix. That’s sure, 100%. Or it would be a fraud. You paid with a regular well know method (paypal) so you can prove it. Contact paypal if Anet is unable to help to figure out how to refund your account. At the end, you will find a solution. Guaranteed.

LordByron.8369:

this is one of the oldest excuses ever used….
It starts to become really old….

My signature explains all i’d say..
The real vocal minority are those saying “hey everything is okay!! i have not any single fact but my word to prove 10.000 people are wrong and i am right but hey i am cool they just are angry childs…..because i say so obviously u.u”

You are almost insulting the right of speech and intelligence of thousands players inthis way…..say their opinion isn t representative and they are angry for nothing….

So let me show you mine Facts…

Lets take some example opinion of forum gamers about a very popular game:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/call-of-duty-black-ops-ii/user-reviews
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3/user-reviews

And what most of people think? They think that the game is not so bad afterall:
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=modern+warfare

So by simply listening to forums you might think that any Call of Duty games is just terrible and people will never buy it again. But CoD games sales are growing! So why should I listen to gamers from forums about what people really thinks?

Cheers!

HiddenNick.7206:

LordByron.8369:

this is one of the oldest excuses ever used….
It starts to become really old….

My signature explains all i’d say..
The real vocal minority are those saying “hey everything is okay!! i have not any single fact but my word to prove 10.000 people are wrong and i am right but hey i am cool they just are angry childs…..because i say so obviously u.u”

You are almost insulting the right of speech and intelligence of thousands players inthis way…..say their opinion isn t representative and they are angry for nothing….

So let me show you mine Facts…

Lets take some example opinion of forum gamers about a very popular game:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/call-of-duty-black-ops-ii/user-reviews
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3/user-reviews

And what most of people think? They think that the game is not so bad afterall:
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=modern+warfare

So by simply listening to forums you might think that any Call of Duty games is just terrible and people will never buy it again. But CoD games sales are growing! So why should I listen to gamers from forums about what people really thinks?

Cheers!

HiddenNick, I’m sure you have employed sophisticated research techniques to come to your profile of gamers on forums, but let me give you the simple persons answer: you should listen to non-troll gamers on forums because they are telling you what they think. No, it’s not the whole population of people playing the game, it’s the whole population of people telling you what they think on the forums. It’s simply grist for the mill. Read, evaluate, employ critical thinking skills, engage if you wish. But, saying you don’t listen to people on forums begs the question. Why are you here?