Guild Wars 2

In my opinion moving Renewing Stamina into master while trying to reduce the dependency on arcane is a bad idea for PvP. Vigor is important to the ele and moving Renewing Stamina into the master tier won’t accomplish the main objective of reducing the dependence upon arcane.

That is all

Kavia.8249:

Elementalist water and arcane trait movement – many ele players are posting here worried about how the changes will affect their build. I believe that is because people do not like change, and have grown so accustomed to 30 in water and arcane that they cannot imagine a world without those traits. The moving of key adept traits to master is an excellent move in order to force hard choices for these traits that were previously so good at the adept level that it was very difficult to pass them up. Adversity builds diversity. If certain traits are so good that it only makes sense to take them, you end up with everybody running the same build. Now you have all these eles running 30 arcane for a long time afraid of change. Please do not let that deter you from making these necessary changes. Forcing difficult choices for players making builds is GOOD and encourages diversity – keep it up!

I’m sorry but I totally failed in understanding your logic here or you are being satire.
If I’m running arcane 30, changing V and VI up to Master only means I’m more reluctant to give us the 20 arcane points so I can keep them. In fact I’m currently running 10 arcane, so I can swap between V and VI depending on the situation, but now I’m almost sure I’m going up to 20 arcane.

If you want to create diversity, you are looking to find ways to make a trait not as dependable and vital. Making hard choices are totally irrelevant if the traits we are talking about are in the same trait line.

Also its the best not to guess what other people are thinking. That just make you sound like a fool.

While Symbol of Swiftness change is nice.. atleast it had a +1 second recharge on swiftness ability now it’s better.. Mesmer’s temportal curtain hasn’t been touched.. doesn’t add swiftness if the player already has swiftness, it’s quite annoying at times when that happens in zergs or champion runs or even dungeons.. it’s like a wasted skill when the player gets swiftness right about the time he puts down a temporal curtain

<<<<<ANET PLEASE READ THIS <3 <3 <3>>>>>>

I have a few issues with this potential patch. Full disclosure: this is coming from a purely pvp background (99% of my time as a thief)

I believe warriors need to truly be fixed. They are so weak at the moment and if I’m not mistaken, none of the highly rated teams run a warrior. There is no role or area where a warrior exceeds. In addition, it is so amazingly easy to kite a warrior. They are SO obvious when swinging any weapon that it is unbearably easy to dodge their CC. I believe nerfing the damage on their hammer is not ok because if they somehow are able to catch you they should be able to do high damage. At the very least, fix hammer warriors so that they don’t have to struggle to even land a strike.

I also think the changes to thief are a bit excessive. I think the developers have been focusing on sword main hand way too much in the last few months and have been neglecting to fix dagger offhand blind. The last few nerfs to thief have been to:

1. infiltrators return not breaking stun (completely understandable because having instant spammable stunbreaker is unfair) and,

2. the boon stripping potential of larcenous strike (really makes fighting tanky classes a pain, but it’s still doable).

Really I don’t have too many problems with the changes to thief; I understand balancing an energy class versus cooldown based classes is difficult. However, I do not believe the solution to this balancing is a cast time on infiltrator’s return. The thief is supposed to be steady damage and high mobility. I believe dagger/pistol needs a harder look than sword/dagger or sword/pistol (although I appreciate the fix to pistol whip). I like many of the changes to thief, but keep in mind a few things:

1. dagger/pistol weapon set will be more cookie cutter:
– the changes to crit strikes will ensure that when traiting crit strikes, thieves will use practiced tolerance over signet use. These two traits are generally used for the master rune slot, but with this change practiced tolerance clearly is better now.

2. dagger/pistol weapon set will become more popular based on its high burst and interrupt potential (it already has because of the nerfs to sword mainhand and s/d as a whole). Pistol offhand 4 is amazing for interrupting and is spammable.
– as a sub-note to this: sword/dagger is based off of its steady damage while being extremely mobile because it is extremely weak when it comes to interrupting or stunlocking. A sword/dagger thief has much trouble interrupting another player from stomping or rezzing a teammate because the only way to do it with the weapon set skills is to cloak and dagger (5 init) and stab from behind. Usually in the midst of the fight this is not possible based on init being low or time/range constraints.

3. the problem with sword/dagger was the multitude of evades (which by the way keep in mind the thief is unable to damage while evading [on that note keep in mind when people complain about stealth, thieves cannot do damage in stealth either]). The most important thing is to fix the weapon set’s ability to evade, not to over-nerf the class’s strengths while not fixing the root problem. Luckily, the changes to vigor will fix them but also keep in mind that superior sigil of energy is also to blame (2 more evades every single time you can weapon swap is nuts when you consider signet of agility and withdraw/roll for init). This coupled with double sword/dagger and acrobatic init on weapon swap is what made people wary of the “evade” build thief.

This is my two cents; I really hope you don’t add cast time to infiltrator’s return because that really sucks =(. Instead can you work on dagger/pistol and leave my sword mainhand alone. ALSO LET THIEVES USE SWORD OFFHAND!!!!!!!!

Illusions VI – Illusionary Invigoration. […] Moved to Master Tier.

Noooo…now i have to decide between this and the juicy extra bounce.

I can live with what I see (I like the initiative change for thieves ) if not like it.

One thing you might want is an editor to go through the notes – I noticed in several places where you went back and forth on format (Skill X had recharge lowered to Y from Z vs Skill X had recharge lowered from Z to Y).

I am kind of impressed. These are all generally very good changes, but more important (to my being impressed) are the reasonings supplied and the subsequent response posts. Do more of that.

Though at the same time I’m disappointed that the core problem with rangers (pet inability to dodge or hit moving targets) has yet to be touched. (I don’t even play ranger. but that’s part of why I don’t.)

And also the phantams give regeneration (Phantasmal Healing) trait, the aoe of that is really small.
example : i have a sword/pistol.. and i use a pistol phantasm before going closer to the mob cause i want the phantasm to stay alive, i never get regen out of it. Comparitively.. if i’v put many points into the inspiration trait line, it’ll be good to have regen if not aoe, atleast the mesmer for keeping a phantasm up for lets say.. 5 seconds every 10 seconds or 3 seconds every 7 seconds or something of that sort

Goodbye my dual pistol build, not gonna have enough initiative to use my unload trice now.Unless unload skill got reduce initiative cost.
Thief now gonna have a hard time making it out alive in PvE too since the move gonna be constricted please buff Theif HP so he aint get 1 shot by those nasty boss .

Sanduskel.1850:

nope. the changes are right. don’t go back on this or else we will be right back to permastealth land.

I’m confused, did you even read what I said (or am I misunderstanding you)? My suggestion was an even more severe nerf to perma-stealth (or rather BP+HS) [which was meant to accompany the nerf to Infusion of Shadow]. How does that bring us “right back to permastealth?”

pls also fix the Staff 4 of the necros to be an explo-finisher as intended
otherwise good changes

Lets talk about the thief nerf, getting rid of perma stealth is a step in the right direction, but there was no need to practically ruin sword dagger, (first by nerfing boons stolen by larcenous in previous patches and second by adding a cast time on shadow return, —it pretty much has no use now) and as far as “Increasing the survivability of acrobatics” decreasing the vigor gain on vigorous recovery and initiative regen on quick recovery was not the way to go. people trait in acrobatics for the extra initiative regen and dodges -- not heal on initiative spent which while now buffed is reduced in potency since quick recovery now provides less initiative gain then before. Please Anet, one more nerf like this and I’m giving up on thief. I would like to hear your response and reasoning.

Kavia.8249:

Love most of the notes, just have a few thoughts on specific changes outlined by class below:

Elementalist water and arcane trait movement – many ele players are posting here worried about how the changes will affect their build. I believe that is because people do not like change, and have grown so accustomed to 30 in water and arcane that they cannot imagine a world without those traits. The moving of key adept traits to master is an excellent move in order to force hard choices for these traits that were previously so good at the adept level that it was very difficult to pass them up. Adversity builds diversity. If certain traits are so good that it only makes sense to take them, you end up with everybody running the same build. Now you have all these eles running 30 arcane for a long time afraid of change. Please do not let that deter you from making these necessary changes. Forcing difficult choices for players making builds is GOOD and encourages diversity – keep it up!

*offtopic
I suppose you main as mesmer? Seeing how biased your comments are on the adjustments that will be done on other classes, only favoring your own class.
*offtopic

I actually appreciate Anet’s effort on communicating with us. As a player who mains as elementalist, I see the logic behind all the adjustments, not that I like them at all. Especially for the Arcane and Water Trait ones, reasons have been provided by others, stating how impractical such change would be. But one thing truly bugs me.

Critical Infusion – Adept Minor from Mesmer Dueling Traitline
Gain vigor when delivering a critical hit. 5secs Duration. 5secs CD.

I don’t ask for buffs for elementalist. Just bring this mesmer trait in line with us.
Us – fellow eles, thieves, engis who got their vigor stripped. Thanks Anet!

(Did someone mention “another class” has a similar trait? Well I guess they know how to mind their own business, I just forget about their existence :P)

While I am so happy to have Blasting Staff in Adept, I’m a bit worried about these warrior nerfs. I just started rolling a warrior! So am I just wasting my time? Maybe I’ll play Guardian instead. Sheesh.

Members
Infractions

Posted Today, 07:43 AM
war hammer? sorry but i have yet to find a use for other that going to cs and watching my characters anime. i like using hammer but will never bring it anywhere but for some solo fun. now its being even more nerfed. I would have thought maybe to change up a skill to make stability obscilete to hammer skill for a short time. other wise going against champs is a great probabllity control effects wont work which makes the hammer useless. i was hoping for a better skill change than nerfing the damage it does. Its as if next it wont even create weakness. hammer should have its own protocol. it has nothing only to that of trash mobs.

Warrior

Bow f1 dps nerfed 33% .

Hammer by 20% if you don’t pick crit and by 40% if you do.40% nerf is rather harsh.

Mace .Better just delete it for good.

Facepalm does not even remotly describe this situation.

Of all things you could have addressed with Elementalists … I really don’t understand why you picked the things you did to meddle with.

If you wanted to actually help Elementalist you could have addressed some of our long outstanding questions:

1. Why is Balance Stance a 40 second cooldown / 8 second duration on a high armor/high hitpoint class, but Armor of Earth is a 90 second cooldown / 6 second duration on Elementalist?

2. Why does Lingering Elements not affect all attunement dependant abilities such as Piercing Shards and Internal Fire

3. Why hasn’t Zephyr’s Speed and Windborne Dagger been replaced with traits that would be useful? You nerfed One With Air (something people actually used) and left us with their broken and unwanted cousins.

4. Why is ANet so aggressively pushing Burning on a class that, as designed, is not a condition class. If Burning was power based, I could understand … but stacking burning when its only doing a few hundred a tick is asanine.

5. When are the focus and scepter issues going to be addressed? You acknowledged the issues with both since the end of Closed Beta and still nothing has been done. The only benefit/advantage that elementalist has is the fact it has access to more abilities than other classes … so none of them should be lackluster. Example: Shatterstone.

6. With nerfed Mobility, gutted Healing abilities, and the 5 player AE cap … how does ANet justify the low hitpoints/armor that the class was given back in alpha/closed beta? Look at the other low hitpoint classes: Guardian, Thief, Elementalist … which is doing the worst (especially in sPvP)? Look at the other low armor classes: Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist … same question as before? Don’t you feel that the drawbacks given to the class have should be reviewed given that you have abandoned the reasoning for them in the first place back before release? It isn’t like other classes aren’t doing the same damage output at Elementalists with far more survivability.

I would also like some clarification on two points that on the surface look completely hypocritical.

1. Why was RTL nerfed and Warriors, Rogues, and Thieves are allowed to do the very thing you deemed improper for elementalists to do in your game?

2. Why are you thinking of moving Vigor on crit to 20 points in Arcane when you give it to both Guardians and Mesmers for a 5 point investment?

Engineer

A bit disappointed with the change to incendiary powder. If that is moved to master what will be moved to adept?

The change to Exploit Weakness might be interesting to try never did before.

Thank you for the increased healing in the healing bombs trait. I have a healing apothecary build and I would really like it if my support would be increased in the healing department.

Not that happy with the change to speedy kits. I need the vigor to save me from all the AOE damage in WvW and this is a big nerf to my survivability IMO.

Here is how I feel about all this funny trait moving, which I have never seen in any other game.

All this moving and the weird balancing just breaks builds so people play more to buy new gear to change their now broken builds.

Maybe an expansion is in sight? Or make an additional one or two trait lines per class then give us more trait points. That would increase build diversity.

Crazy idea it seriously, if you want more build diversity, fix the weapon skill system to be more like Gw1, instead of locking weapon skills in place, then give us more trait lines to play with.

Elementalist
I just read all 13 pages of the responses to the changes. I don’t really feel like completely re-hashing what a lot of great ele posters have said but I am not happy with the trait tier changes in Arcane and Water.

I just don’t understand how they can justify nerfing a class that has no place in current spvp or roaming wvw meta. Even IF they are indeed nerfing most of the other classes major meta spvp builds Ele’s are being nerfed AGAIN to make sure that with the other classes nerfs we are still sure to be at the bottom AGAIN. Was the old D/D ele at launch that traumatic to the game that it will not only be nerfed in every way possible but then, 6 months later, with no additional buffs or changes to the spec, be re-nerfed?

they say they want more build diversity? then why nerf an already nerfed into the ground spec like d/d ele(that people still enjoy running regardless of how nerfed it already is)? it won’t build diversity.. either people will be forced to spend more points in both water and arcane, bringing us back to 0/x/x/30/30 builds or you will have to completely give up water and arcane traits to try out their new traits that may or may not be completely useless and provide far less sustainable survivabilty and group support.

The previous Fresh Air patch was better at build diversity than this. at least that new trait was so much fun and good you wanted to give up some arcane or water traits for it. This patch however is not building diversity it’s forcing us into new specs that cannot vary and nerfing existing ones that aren’t even viable to begin with.

imho, i don’t think the unsuspecting foes should be moved to master tier, since their main focus is to bring a support traits for mesmer via 5 target stability via mantra and mantra charge with 600 toughness buff, then add the guardian in a small party havoc, i would see less chance of getting stunned crit killed with burst mastery + damage nerf from hammers. in a zerg though, a group of mesmers with mantra stability and then share the buff signet would stack up and… well, lots of stability stack duration. so less stun from warriors.

My thoughts about Warrior Changes:

Unsuspecting Foe – Good Change. Either this, or reducing the extra Crit Chance by 25%. Both is fine with me.

Spiked Armor – Will still be a lackluster Trait. Its just not good enough compared to the other Options.

Tactics Minor Traits – All that Stuff revolving around Reviving is really, really situational. Something like Vigor on Shouts, Healing per Shout/Banner equipped and stuff like that would be much more interesting and helpful.

Earthshaker – I think the Damage Reduce is too much, as soon as Unsuspecting Foe is out of the Picture for Tanky DPS Builds, the Hammer will be fine.

Staggering Blow – Same here, the UF Nerf is enough for Hammer Warriors.

Skull Crack – Thats really bad news. The Mace Chain is slow, the Range of the Weapon is low, theres no Mobility at all, and the only thing that made it possible to get a Window of Opportunity to hit the Enemy, was the fast Mace Stun. If this goes through, it will hit the Mace hard.
If you really want to Nerf the Stun, id think it would be a good idea to make the Mace Chain faster and give the Mace Cripple on Pommel Bash, while reducing its Cooldown to 12 Sec.
The Stun was the Reason to take the Mace, with its effectiveness reduced so much, theres not much Reason left.

Rename Cleansing Wave trait to “Cleansing Mist” to avoid collision with off-hand dagger skill Cleansing Wave.

Fortus.6175:

Any chance you will review the Backstab damage? Perhaps move it to other skills and give HS a small 1 sec internal CD. Right now it is very unfair to be hit by 8-9k in PvP even wearing defensive traits/armor, and 14-15k in WvW unbuffed. I dont have a problem with thieves having burst, only that having the strongest hitting spell on the game without any counter is not very much fun to deal with.

First, the whole point of initiative is to be able to use skills repeatedly, so giving a cool down on heart seeker would be completely contradict the purpose of initiative. Second, if you think backstab damage is “the strongest hitting spell” (it isn’t a spell btw, its an attack) you clearly haven’t seen a zerker killshot or eviscerate warrior before.

I think all of these changes are great, and like most games class changes are never permanent so I at least want to thank you devs for taking your time out to change the classes…and let us know what we are in for

I only wish mesmers had a choice of other colors for their attacks instead of pink.
And that certain classes get more weapon choices.

As you guys focus more on support, if other classes had certain weapons like focuses or warhorns it might add that or help the balance.
Especially to offset the other classes like the warrior who has a wider selection to choose from

Mesmer
As a mesmer, I like the changes. It makes a couple of build ideas now viable and possible for us. However, I think to move Illusionist’s Celerity down to master will make certain builds too strong. I loved when you could get it for 5 trait points only, and with the build I ran back then (hybrid cond/direct dmg, with 30% more dmg done by phantasm and phantasmal fury) I felt unbeatable. That build would be now, with some variation, possible again. I believe phantasms could be summoned too quickly with that.

Warrior
I like the idea of seperating the warrior roles. Cuz the current situation is really weird. These days a warrior, that has a minor awarness of what’s going on, doesn’t die. However, I think the nerf to hammer and burst mastery might be too much. I honestly don’t play a warrior (I have one at lvl 28 and didn’t use that one for ages) but judging from WvW, they struggle already against good players, that can see their animation and dodge, blink, invul, and such on time. Now with a clearer animation and the nerf, hammer warriors might only be viable in a melee train. I think in a 1v1 or other low scale combat, they might become too weak. But again, I don’t play warrior…

elemental attunement and renewing stamina are essential to d/d ele surviavablity
a d/d ele needs to constantly stay at 600 range to do damage, has the lowest base hp and armor, and lacks the defense through class mechanics such as clones, or stealth, to compensate.
the bulk of a d/d eles surviavablity comes from vigor and boons.

with already subpar mobility and subpar condi removal,the change will put d/d eles lower. ive played d/d ele for the longest time, i love the class to death and the aggressive play style. these changes to renewing stamina will really hurt the survivablity of the class, it has been nerfed for 8-9 months straight now.

diversifying builds is the right track but you have consistently nerfed the d/d ele. eles are hardly seen in spvp now, and require a lot more effort to be effective then the other classes. the changes to elemental attunement and renewing stamina will further decrease the viablity of d/d eles in pvp.

the biggest issue of the current meta is condi spam, this is what needs to be addressed. the fact that condi builds can be built with defensive stats and have good access to weakness is a problem. weakness is strongest condition against direct damage builds, and most condi builds in the current meta of access to weakness. they also can be spammed to such a degree that most classes cant even keep up, on top of that you continue to add things such as perplexity runes, and consumables that buff condis even more. WvW roaming is now loaded with perplexity. if you want to see build diversity check out the different builds with the perplexity runes for different classes. address the condi issue first, condi spam is ridiculous and is almost as kittentunlock warrior. the issues with the warrior have been addressed well

Going back to the eles, most of the changes are good, however things like the c/d of armor of earth, underpowered weapon skills such as those on the focus, and things hit with the large nerf bat such as rtl and cleansing water are the areas that need that focus.

a lot of us were hopeful for the last “balance patch” but that was a joke.
the idea of this thread is very good and im glad you are taking the opinions of your players. however make sure that you actually do listen. a lot of good pros and cons about every class’ balance has been pointed out in this thread. do pay good mind to them.

panzerpanduh.9680:

<<<<<ANET PLEASE READ THIS <3 <3 <3>>>>>>

I have a few issues with this potential patch. Full disclosure: this is coming from a purely pvp background (99% of my time as a thief)

I believe warriors need to truly be fixed. They are so weak at the moment and if I’m not mistaken, none of the highly rated teams run a warrior. There is no role or area where a warrior exceeds. In addition, it is so amazingly easy to kite a warrior. They are SO obvious when swinging any weapon that it is unbearably easy to dodge their CC. I believe nerfing the damage on their hammer is not ok because if they somehow are able to catch you they should be able to do high damage. At the very least, fix hammer warriors so that they don’t have to struggle to even land a strike.

I also think the changes to thief are a bit excessive. I think the developers have been focusing on sword main hand way too much in the last few months and have been neglecting to fix dagger offhand blind. The last few nerfs to thief have been to:

1. infiltrators return not breaking stun (completely understandable because having instant spammable stunbreaker is unfair) and,

2. the boon stripping potential of larcenous strike (really makes fighting tanky classes a pain, but it’s still doable).

Really I don’t have too many problems with the changes to thief; I understand balancing an energy class versus cooldown based classes is difficult. However, I do not believe the solution to this balancing is a cast time on infiltrator’s return. The thief is supposed to be steady damage and high mobility. I believe dagger/pistol needs a harder look than sword/dagger or sword/pistol (although I appreciate the fix to pistol whip). I like many of the changes to thief, but keep in mind a few things:

1. dagger/pistol weapon set will be more cookie cutter:
– the changes to crit strikes will ensure that when traiting crit strikes, thieves will use practiced tolerance over signet use. These two traits are generally used for the master rune slot, but with this change practiced tolerance clearly is better now.

2. dagger/pistol weapon set will become more popular based on its high burst and interrupt potential (it already has because of the nerfs to sword mainhand and s/d as a whole). Pistol offhand 4 is amazing for interrupting and is spammable.
– as a sub-note to this: sword/dagger is based off of its steady damage while being extremely mobile because it is extremely weak when it comes to interrupting or stunlocking. A sword/dagger thief has much trouble interrupting another player from stomping or rezzing a teammate because the only way to do it with the weapon set skills is to cloak and dagger (5 init) and stab from behind. Usually in the midst of the fight this is not possible based on init being low or time/range constraints.

3. the problem with sword/dagger was the multitude of evades (which by the way keep in mind the thief is unable to damage while evading [on that note keep in mind when people complain about stealth, thieves cannot do damage in stealth either]). The most important thing is to fix the weapon set’s ability to evade, not to over-nerf the class’s strengths while not fixing the root problem. Luckily, the changes to vigor will fix them but also keep in mind that superior sigil of energy is also to blame (2 more evades every single time you can weapon swap is nuts when you consider signet of agility and withdraw/roll for init). This coupled with double sword/dagger and acrobatic init on weapon swap is what made people wary of the “evade” build thief.

This is my two cents; I really hope you don’t add cast time to infiltrator’s return because that really sucks =(. Instead can you work on dagger/pistol and leave my sword mainhand alone. ALSO LET THIEVES USE SWORD OFFHAND!!!!!!!!

While I agree with most of your points on thief especially the sword offhand part (Please anet i’ll love you forever) don’t you think mace/shield great sword warriors was pretty broken, even a tanky warrior can easily stun lock somebody into a 10k+ hundred blades chain, and the multitude of blocks, evades, and invulns made killing a tanky (healing signet & mace/shield — great sword) warrior extremely difficult for anything not condition based, though most of the pvp I do is in world vs world, i can’t imagine it’s too different in spvp

Telekinesis.8312:

While Symbol of Swiftness change is nice.. atleast it had a +1 second recharge on swiftness ability now it’s better.. Mesmer’s temportal curtain hasn’t been touched.. doesn’t add swiftness if the player already has swiftness, it’s quite annoying at times when that happens in zergs or champion runs or even dungeons.. it’s like a wasted skill when the player gets swiftness right about the time he puts down a temporal curtain

This would be a welcome change, to add to your swiftness timer, since swiftness is supposed to stack, every other buff stacks either intensity or duration, but the ground effect swiftness doesn’t? It just does not make sense. Nerf it a bit if you’re already over 12s swiftness, if you don’t want too big of stacks, I guess.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

a t s e.9614:

Healing signet needs NO NERF , don’t listen to the whiner . Warrior has no sustain outside of high regen . Those hammer dmg nodes nerf are perfect . But im dissapointed about thief changes honestly , S\D is the only viable build anet

The change to initiative regain baseline is a huge buff to ALL thief builds, so don’t jump so early to those conclusions!

How so really? I never found myself having the issue of my initiative not regening fast enough in a fight..only way I can win a fight is doing big damage and avoiding the enemy’s damage because if I sit in front of him I will drop first due to our squishyness..regaining faster initiative doesn’t really help?

Necromancer:
For the necromancer, we felt that a few traits and skills were too powerful, while others were lacking in efficacy. We brought down some of the raw DPS conditions that necromancer enjoys, while also maintaining their pressure and sustain elements. The necromancer’s mobility will remain where it is currently, as we want the Necromancers to be focused on sustaining themselves through death shroud, siphoning health, and slowing down their opponent’s ability to act.

So NERFS:

Mark of Blood. Removed 1 bleed in PvP only . – less bleed for necro,
Signet of Spite: Removed one bleed. – same here,
Curses IV – Weakening Shroud. Increase recharge from 15 to 25. -same+ def. nerf.

Ok so Necro get GREAT condi dps nerf. Looks like player dont need be forced to “waste” their slot for some condi removal after (from necromancer ofcourse- becose dont forghet that other classes can make bleeed more and faster than necro already).
Why You just dont remove or replace Dhuumfire train(it will be mutch faster to remove/replace this than change ewerything else to balance condi necro again).
So what this class get to compensate it? :

BUFFS:

Spite X – Chill of Death. Increased trigger threshold from 25% to 50% – this is useful,

Spite 15 – Death into Life. Increased conversion from 5% to 7% – WTH>? healing
power is kitten already in necro class , especialy after Your “vampiric buff”- for me
a joke , and it change noting here,
Curses VIII – Banshee’s Wail. Increase cooldown reduction from 15% to 20%- looks
like You go to the +20% all skills line- its ok .
Death 5 – Reanimator. Decreased cooldown from 30s to 15s.- this train is useless
before and it will be useless after- You know this, so no more type for this change
(meaby in pve its ok but not pvp/wvsw).
Death VIII – Reaper’s Protection. Decreased the cooldown from 90s to 60s. – this
will give necros some option to move out from close range “aoe stun lock” – ofc. if
enemys dont use STABILITY,
Death 25 – Deadly Strength. Increased conversion from 5% to 10%- this +50 to
power dont change muth here,
Blood Magic 25 – Blood to Power. Decreased health threshold from 90% to 75%.
Increase Power from 90 to 120- ok +30 to power- i dont think its a great buff

Soul Reaping II. Vital Persistence. Increased reduction of life force drain from 25% to
50%. – this will make DS more useful if take 10 in SR, but this will dont change muth
vs “dps train” especialy with aoe stun lock.

Looks like You whone nerf condi builds and buff some power builds to make them go “to the line” like: lets nerf useful skills and buff useless to be more usefull here.
But the nerf looks hard and buff looks to low for now ( look at matematic dps change on condi/power necro).

The necromancer’s mobility will remain where it is currently, as we want the Necromancers to be focused on sustaining themselves through death shroud, siphoning health, and slowing down their opponent’s ability to act.
Here we go- no really mobility to escape from aoe stun, dps, cc lock etc, so when here the only way to kitten is die.
Siphoning health is useles in most fight (40 hp on each hit? when i get 1k+ hp hit on each enemy atack?, this 40 hp points dont change here noting)- beter give us some hp regen like warriors signet (400 hp on sekond on passive skill?) or acess to hp regen skills like ele and dont tell that this siphoning health is useful here. Giving us some useful hp regen skill will make necros HEALING power usefull in some builds. Meaby then we wil be some attrition class and not slow sinking ship (remember that necro have no good ability to escape from fight).

“slowing down their opponent’s ability to act”- its not about necro- meaby warior with aoe stunlock? but not necro for now (witch class have problem to run from necro- other necro only

About minions:

“October-15th-balance-skills-updates-preview:
Pet HP split between PvE and PvP
We wanted to make pets and summons more viable in PvE/WvW while making sure they didn’t become too strong in PvP. "

- in pve- they can be taken now and dont die “all the time”,
-in pvp- they can be strong vs low mobility class/build, but they are easy kitten with aoe criple+ “dancing circle”
-in wvsw- they still useless (hp dont change in wvsw)- aoe instant kill, lots of aoe condi make them die before atack, they dont atack some doors (like sunnyhill door etc.)

You go to good direction to make all skills be usefull in each classes. But be careful to make nerf/buff here and before You make ANY changes look at the mathematical model of used change – fellings are ok but can be corrupted by the opinion of x players who dont whone nerf/buff (becose in this way is beter for them).

Its a hard work to balance the WHOLE game but You have time and people to do it

cheers

Zero Day.2594:

Latinkuro.9420:

Zero Day.2594:

JonPeters.5630:

Warrior:
…We don’t mind warriors doing massive damage, or doing great area of effect control…

Well, good thing I already started re-rolling warrior. Still on the fence though as which is better warrior or guard…
(Going from thief to warrior.)

taking it out of context I see huh,

here’s the whole quote ! don’t try to make it sound like something it isn’t, a nerf is still a nerf !

We also reduced the damage on the hammer’s burst skill to separate the control from the damage. We don’t mind warriors doing massive damage, or doing great area of effect control, but we’re trying to prevent them from easily doing both.

My bad, sure you got nerfed, your still effective at doing something, and they “don’t mind” it. Hence re-rolling.

Suggestions for Thief changes:
(keep all the changes you guys are making, and add in mine, you’re doing great ).

Back-stab builds will still be overpowered, let’s reduce the side-strike trait to 2% chance. Reduce a bit of damage on Back-Stab it self. Hidden killer should be reduced from 100% to 25%.
Sneak-attack on pistol, right now stacks a bit too many bleeds. The number of times shot using that skill should be reduced from 5 to 2. The normal attack on the pistol should no longer apply a bleed effect
Black powder should be as suggested, powder, only blinding one enemy without an AoE effect.
Executioner should be decreased from 20% to 10%.
Backfighting increase damage from 50% to 150%, thieves generally fight when they’re downed, so it’s a good idea to provide a buff and expand build options.

Think these would be some solid changes… Would greatly open up thief builds (for instance, re-rolling to warrior build, or re-rolling to guardian build).

rofl

Thief
REGARDING INITIATIVE

I personnaly totally disagree with these changes andfeel these are actually a nerf rather than a buff, especially toward active gameplay (player is engaged and fighting).

I did some simple math to prove my point, calculated from my non stealth S/D build

Current initiative management on 10 seconds
0.75 × 10 (base recovery) + 2 × 2 (signets) + 10 × 0.3 (opportunist) + 2 (quick recovery)
= 16.5

Upcoming initiative management on 10 seconds
1 × 10 (base recovery) + 2 × 1 (signets) + 2 × 0.5 (opportunist) + 1 (quick recovery)
= 14

This is 2.5 less initiative every 10 seconds, over a 30 seconds fight against a particularly resistant build, it’s even more, due to the huge nerf to opportunist.

On a side note you’re also definitely killing p/p builds essentialy relying on opportunist to manage the huge unload cost.

Please reconsider your math regarding the initiative changes, you’re going to hurt active and revealed gameplay while rewarding perma stealth / passive wait for regen even more

NOOOOOOOOO!!!! My hammer warriooooorrrr!!

Oh my go-…

/stops breathing

Roy Cronacher.1576:

• How is the change to symbol of Swiftness any good? So many classes move much faster then Guardians. If you want to nerf this, give us an Adept trait, that gives us flat 25% movement spead, like Warriors have it.

In many cases the symbol of swiftness change is actually a buff and not a nerf. Currently it will only apply the initial large portion of swiftness if the target does not currently have any swiftness on them. If they have swiftness on them or after that first pulse it will then add 1 second of swiftness per pulse. This is very awkward and clunky.

The change makes the spell apply a consistent 4 seconds of swiftness per pulse without the strange hidden mechanic. Basically. if you already have swiftness on the people which you using the symbol on or if you take the time to stand in the spell for the full duration then it will just be a buff. =)

Wrong.
NOBODY takes the time to stand around in a swiftness symbol!
The whole point of the kitten thing is to run through it.
Please just leave the symbol alone, it works perfectly as it is right now.

To get a permanent effect it locks any Guardian into a (Staff)2-hand weapon/Boon build. The price we paid to be even remotely able to keep up on roams .
I also routinely casted it infront of my posse so it boosted them too!

This nerf will destroy the main way for Guardians to have fun actually exploring your world on foot, instead of gating from one Champion Zerg to the next.

If I actually would cast this new symbol on roams, then pretty much everybody else that had happened to run through a Mesmer´s swiftness boost earlier will just run away even faster from me.

Simply unacceptable, would be my comment.
And if I´d still play the game I´d actually be outraged, oh well.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Zeal V – Shattered Aegis. Damage instead of Burning.
Loses Synergy with Fiery Wrath if you do that. You just said you wanted to improve Guardian damage…that’s 10% damage i lose right here. Just double the Burning duration to improve this trait.

Honor VI – Pure of Heart. Increased scaling with Healing power from 25% to 40%.
Passive Aegis is usually up on a Guardian at ALL times while out of combat. The Aegis gets removed from the first hit you take upon entering combat, therefore you are still at FULL HP and this trait HEALS FOR 0. So this trait really only works for activating Courage with a terribly long recharge, or Retreat with a similar recharge. Therefore, this trait is weak. Getting 3 seconds of Regeneration on Aegis removal would be a better trade-off because we get to benefit from the trait when both passive and active Aegis are removed, along with applying an extra boon to allies for Altruistic Healing when your Aegis is removed from them.

Symbol of Swiftness: This skill now applies 4 seconds of swiftness per pulse, rather than 8 seconds if you have no swiftness and 1 second if you have swiftness.
You might not remember, but this skill was changed to the 8s format back in beta because it was deemed counter-productive to “stand still in a symbol to run faster”.

What you should definitely look into:
Symbolic Exposure/Symbolic Power as minor traits
Sword, Scepter, Shield, Focus, Torch. Neither of these have Symbols. To take Scepter Power trait, I need to take a Symbol related minor trait? Why? There is no Scepter/Anything combo that gives me a Symbol. Therefore, one of my weaponsets do not benefit from these traits. Additionally, there are NO symbol in underwater combat. Combine Symbolic Exposure and Symbolic Power into 1 grandmaster trait and move Kindled Zeal to grandmaster minor. Fiery Wrath would also make a very good replacement as master minor.

Lack of Fields/Finisher
GW2 was advertised to have amazing combos you could pull of with friends as a game mechanic. Sword/Torch and Scepter/Torch combos have neither Field, nor Finisher. The skills on which to add the Fields/Finishers are obvious.
Orb of Wrath = 20% chance of Projectile Finisher.
Zealot’s Defense = 20% chance of Projectile Finisher.
Zealot’s Fire = Projectile Finisher.
All 3 of those already get Reflected by Feedback/WoR. They are projectiles.
Smite = Light Field. Just a Field for combo, not a Symbol nor a Consecration.

all of this.

ELEMENTALIST
i dont like too much this changes only because we need more survivability, i’ve putted 30 on arcana and 30 on water for have it, i dont see how this patch will help me to change builds… my damage is zero if i’m downed i dont care to have more powerfull option on fire air and earth if my life at lvl 80 is 11k (scaled on lower dungeon)…. you should move something on lower tier like evasive arcana or elemental attunement, or move this trait on fire, air, this traits imho is a must have

Bash.7291:

Another current issue is the complete layout of the zeal trait line, currently the traits in that line do not really mesh at all, considering all the adept traits are symbol based, yet there are traits for weapon’s that don’t have symbols. Both of the grandmaster traits are extremely weak, and not worth putting the extra 10 points into worth getting. Are there any plans to do a complete overhaul on zeal in the future to give us more options outside of fiery wrath and zealous blade?

My last question will be regarding Glacial heart, and why this trait is what it currently is. In it’s current state, it is extra CC, on top of pretty much our only CC weapon. The CD is way too long, as with the current meta, there is so much condition removal in builds that it will be gone way to fast to have any real effect. My personal suggestions for this trait are to either A) Lower the CD to 10s, make the chill 2s, make this effect all weapons, considering how horrible it is to try to keep enemies near you as it is as a guardian. or Remove swift retribuition as adept minor from zeal, move the other two traits down (symbolic exposure to adept, power to master) and make Glacial heart a new grandmaster zeal trait that causes either a 1s chill on symbol pulse, or a 2-3s chill on symbol generation. The first suggestion would give weapons like mace and sword a chance to actually stay on people, while the second suggestion would help with the “area denial” that was originally spoke about in the definition of guardian gameplay.

Thank you Bash

As a warrior, I’m happy with these changes. But really what I’d LOVE to see is a slight change for Arcing Slice (F1 burst). Even if something like on 3 adrenaline bars it’s 100% crit chance on hit. That would be fine. Just something. ANYTHING. At the moment it’s a waste of an awesome animation.

Here’s some criticism and suggestion when it comes to Elementalists.

Criticism
NEW Burning Fire – Although I love that we got to pick and choose anti-condi cantrip in our Traits I doubt anyone would choose it. People who’re investing in Fire tree are there most of the times to pick the 10% more damage on Fire Spells (Adept) and 20% recharge on Fire Spells (Master). That’s the focus of the Fire tree to buff up the damage while in Fire. Hardly anyone would choose a cantrip like that in Fire tree. There are just more important Traits there.

NEW Ember’s Might Eles are not viable as condi-spec build since they only got access to Burning and Bleeding. Even if Burning was that great we still wouldn’t be no where near compared to Engies/Necros/Mesmers/Thieves/Rangers.

Suggestion
- Elementalists have many unused Traits that do not fit anywhere.It would be nice if you could work on a redesign for those instead of focusing on already popular ones. Gives us more Trait viability please. Even if that means merging two or three into 1 Trait.

- Elementalists are not viable as a condi class. We barely have access to Burning and Bleeding. Ether work on giving us more viable conditions or remove them completely. If you want to work around with condi for eles I’d also suggest to bring down Arcane Precision. We can’t focus on Earth tree for Bleeding and Fire tree for Burning and 25 in Arcane to have a on critical condi effect!

- Please fix Elementalist’s auto-attacks, mainly Staff ones, mainly Earth one since it’s not like in Water where your lower damage output is comprehended by nice healing. No one wants to deal 5 damage while inflicting Weakness so that they could deal ,instead of 100, 66 damage.

- Please make Fiery GS Elite workable while running. Elementalists are mobile classes and every stop we make ether we lose the guy we’re chasing after or the bunch comes right at us. Make it work like Warrior’s are able to close up on us. We’re no Warriors please don’t forget that. We’re squishy little Elementalists that don’t wear heavy clothes.

- Please add more support for Eles in PvP. There was a time (before New year) where Eles were awesome in D/Ding. Now everyone knows our moves but there’s no other viable builds except to go bunker and relly on teammates to do the killing. And if you’re in a hot joint you’re mainly on your own unless you do have someone who knows what to do so you can follow. Even guards who were supposed to be the guarding class in GW2 have no problem wandering around solo.

List Traits that could use a new design other then the ones already mentioned (In my humble opinion):
1. Fire’s Embrace (Fire Shield is the weakest of them all, lasts too short to make a difference. To stand in the middle of a fight for a chance of 3 stack of Might nty. Dead ele is no ele.)
2. One with Fire/Flame Barrier’s (currently not usable since it’s not worth going into weak conditions when you’re better off as a good Berserker or Cleric)
3. Soothing Winds (usually those focusing on precision don’t go for healing power, they just don’t work together)
4. Inscription (Glyphs aren’t that strong yet so this one no one uses. It might’ve been used if Glyphs were on the right spot, but they’re not. Plus no one wants to have the same boons Elemental Attunement gives them we already got that)
5. Earthen Blast (Although the cripple is nice, it’s useless in Earth as no D/D has ever gone past 10 in Earth, and they already have Cripple on Ring of Earth, Speccing in Earth is mainly for condi builds and defence so this one should refelct that, I dunno give a Protection or something so the 15 would be worth investing in)
6. Rock Solid (If this 2 sec Stability ment that it would cancel our KD or something it would be good, but no one can predict down to 2 seconds when’s the next one gonna throw their CC, it should be ether Breaks-Stun or add 2 more seconds to the stability)
7. Stop, Drop, and Roll (Weakest of them all. complete redesign. It’s not even 2 most terrible condis out there so that it would mean something, and water has already good anti-condi presence that this one is not needed)
8. Soothing Wave (No one uses this one at all. It should’ve gotten a redisgn instead of putting it into Adept, no one’s gonna use it there nether)
9. Arcane Precision (This shouldn’t be here in the 25, if people are focusing on condi they’ll invest all in Earth and Fire, and this one is really not worth aiming for. Damage dealing builds already have condi spells withing their Attunement to keep the pressure on so it’s completely not usefull.)
10. Elemental Surge (Arcane Spells are based on crit damage I don’t see the point in mixing condi into it. It’s a really weak trait to begin with, and to pay 30 points for it, not good. If anything Arcane tree is missing is a support for the Focus, we really want more love for our Foci!)

There`s a lot of promising changes included in the notes, but I`d like to note that the major complaint (which imo led to the huge influx of warriors in wvw) concerning warriors is not addressed.

I am talking about the synergy between healing signet, berserker stance and auto-stability. All these combined make warrior gameplay far too forgiving and the class is too easy to play for how many actions (keystrokes) have to be done due to all these passive benefits.

Thanks for the heads up.

It’s amazing how you manage to nerf elementalists even when you try to buff them.
Renewing Stamina and Elemental Attunement as master traits mean that you won’t be able to take both, even with 30 points in arcana (and I wouldn’t call this a “splash”)
You’re effectively putting the final nail in the coffin on elementalists just with this change alone.
And seriously, more passive effects? (auto-cleansing fire on 3 condis) The game has too much of those already.

Also, where is the Signet of Healing nerf?

Ranger Notes—
1. Active condition removal for rangers. We rely too much on Empathetic Bond for condition removal to make the new Bark Skin trait worth taking (in my opinion).

2. Sword skill 1 rooting is the most infuriating thing I have ever experienced. Please for the love of all that is good in this world please… remove the rooting. I will love you forever and probably name my first born child JohnPeters. Just saying :P

Overall I love the way this looks. Doesn’t do much for my ranger’s trapper build but I’m happy we’re at least getting some attention after that last patch. Looking forward to December!

Buff up engineer Mortar skill, I suggest increasing range from 1400/1500 to 1500/1800 (or even 1600/2000)

Currently this skill is absolutely useless, this change will help it fill role of long range support.

Extra thoughts:
Players expect mortar elite skill to have longer range then hand -thrown grenades.
Unmovable skill with range 1400/1500 compared to common “movable” skill with range 1500 is a total crap. It means other players can harass u and u can do nothing about it. And they can destroy your mortar in seconds.
In terms of power it still will be weak skill but long range will encourage players use it to harass enemy from safe distance, especially on WvW.
Currently all engineers use Supply Crate elite skill, we need some diversity.

On the Thief changes, I don’t see where we are given more or different survivability options. You want to buff Assassin’s Reward, but then move it to the Grandmaster Tier, so many builds won’t have access to that!

We need other buffs to help us mitigate or avoid damage. For example…

• 1200 range on bow and pistols
• Bountiful Theft now also grants you Protection
• Reduced init cost on Pistol #5 Black Powder and/or increase radius

Sorry to be so critical, but you go through all this philosophy able giving Thieves other means of staying power in exchange for nerfing evasion and stealth without actually offering up anything.

With previous nerfs to Mug, Assassin’s Signet, etc we are no longer the extremely lethal, but fragile profession we use to be. It seems more and more we do average damage, but are even more fragile.

-Cowboy

One thing I don’t really understand: why buff Armored Attack? They clearly state that they don’t want warriors to be tanky and do lots of damage at the same time, yet this change does exactly that.

muscarine.5136:

Thief
REGARDING INITIATIVE

I personnaly totally disagree with these changes andfeel these are actually a nerf rather than a buff, especially toward active gameplay (player is engaged and fighting).

I did some simple math to prove my point, calculated from my non stealth S/D build

Current initiative management on 10 seconds
0.75 × 10 (base recovery) + 2 × 2 (signets) + 10 × 0.3 (opportunist) + 2 (quick recovery)
= 16.5

Upcoming initiative management on 10 seconds
1 × 10 (base recovery) + 2 × 1 (signets) + 2 × 0.5 (opportunist) + 1 (quick recovery)
= 14

This is 2.5 less initiative every 10 seconds, over a 30 seconds fight against a particularly resistant build, it’s even more, due to the huge nerf to opportunist.

On a side note you’re also definitely killing p/p builds essentialy relying on opportunist to manage the huge unload cost.

Please reconsider your math regarding the initiative changes, you’re going to hurt active and revealed gameplay while rewarding perma stealth / passive wait for regen even more

You can use the signets every 10secs?

When you want to calculate it, then use the time of the skill with the highest CD

If you want to create some diversity in builds:

1.- make BiS gear easier and cheaper to get
2.- remove (or fix, or whatever) soulbound items

Because if I spend all my gold getting a new gear, hardly I’ll be able to try another build until some weeks later (and this is worse if you have alts).

Actually, balance patches are a punishment because of the difficulty of obtaining alt gear

So, in short words: 1st balance gear, 2nd balance skills

Black Teagan.9215:

You can use the signets every 10secs?

When you want to calculate it, then use the time of the skill with the highest CD

This is actually what i’m referring to along with the opportunist issue when saying we get even less initiative for longer fights, bbut a wall of math isn’t more interesting than a wall of text

While you at nerfing my beloved hammer burst please make it more reliable because now 30% of the time it does nothing beacuse of how it works with terrian. Also make it unblockable, not affected by blind and its animation- make it faster. Becuase you know people can dodge it, blind spam, or just pop stability and make this burst usless- no damage, no control. (People have all the tools avoid it, you just nerfing Eartshaker so they do not need to use them) Also fix the bug that when you drop Earthshaker you land facing away from your target and thanks to clumsy targeting you just swing hammer in air. Thank you that you just destroyed this weapon in pve where only damage counts. Bye my Juggernaut- I wont be using you as offhand weapon in pve. And I let you know that nerf wont stop the QQers – people who dont know how to dodge the obvious animation and dont bother to have stun breaker, you know people who you listen when making balance changes. It wont stop becasue Im not stoping using hammer (Im using it for 2,5k hours now). So here you go thats my feedback.
And thanks for proving that if you cry and whine long enough about somthing in the game you can make devs nerf it.