Guild Wars 2

Yeah, I know it has been brought up before and I know it’s kind of a hopeless case, but nevertheless, I need to get this out:

I vote for a change to defeated mode, potentially in all game modes. I’d like it to be changed so that once a player is defeated, he can no longer be interacted with, i.e. rezzed. The player himself/herself would only be able to view map screen in that state so he/she can select a waypoint to respawn.

Reason:

• it will end all this toxic discussion about “if you’re dead, pls waypoint” because it would no longer be an option to do this;
• it will teach a lot of players to take more care of themselves during events, either through reactions or gear more appropriate to their play style (let’s put it that way);
• it will at least re-introduce a small malus for dying after repairs have no cost anymore.

Don’t get me wrong; I don’t want to punish bad players – in the end it will affect everybody, including me. But I seriously think that in the long term the player awareness and therefore capability would benefit from such a change. It seriously strikes me to see how many players simply don’t care for sniper crosshairs above their heads or even their aoe lines on the floor, since it is soooo easy to rely on someone rezzing you. And in some events rezzing is even a problem, since players who rezz defeated players (out of friendliness) put the event progress at risk.

So to avoid issues with defeated players in large events we should make anyone who dies just before they reach the next wp in exploration have to run all the way back even if someone is right there to help? In groups running dungeons or PS the defeated one can’t continue to help by marking targets and giving advice? If someone falls in Not So Secret or misses the dive target, they can’t be rezzed right there and ported back up to try again?

Rezzing in situ has a lot more applications than just dealing with zerg events.

I don’t know figures that compare number of casualties in the situations you described vs. meta/open world events.
But the current implementation has trained players not to care for their own survival. I don’t see how that is any good.

Make rezzing fully dead players only available off combat.

Would revive orbs also be banned?

I got a better idea.
When a player is defeated, their character is instantly deleted from their account,and they have to start again from Lv1.
That would really make people more careful about dieing.

Conversely it could make players not participate in difficult events anymore because they don’t want to have deal with paying to be resurrected at a far off waypoint every time they make a mistake.

Especially new difficult events.

I certainly don’t feel trained to not care if I live or die in a fight. And I die. Often. But I die often because I run right back to fight what I was fighting before and try again. Or I get revived by a kind soul and jump back in and go “I should pay attention next time.” or “I should dodge that attack next time, it’s a one hit KO.”.

Why not just make waypointing automatic and to the nearest non-contested at zero cost? Solves all problems.

DGraves.3720:

Why not just make waypointing automatic and to the nearest non-contested at zero cost? Solves all problems.

If that were an option we could use at our discretion, then yes.

I’d also love a “DO NOT RESS” flag I could pop up sometimes when I don’t want people to waste their time on me (e.g. at Teq).

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

DGraves.3720:

Why not just make waypointing automatic and to the nearest non-contested at zero cost? Solves all problems.

If that were an option we could use at our discretion, then yes.

I’d also love a “DO NOT RESS” flag I could pop up sometimes when I don’t want people to waste their time on me (e.g. at Teq).

But I believe a dead character still raises the difficulty, or “scales up the event” or however it is said, right?

DGraves.3720:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

DGraves.3720:

Why not just make waypointing automatic and to the nearest non-contested at zero cost? Solves all problems.

If that were an option we could use at our discretion, then yes.

I’d also love a “DO NOT RESS” flag I could pop up sometimes when I don’t want people to waste their time on me (e.g. at Teq).

But I believe a dead character still raises the difficulty, or “scales up the event” or however it is said, right?

Only until the game does a check to see how many are still actively participating in the event.

DGraves.3720:

Why not just make waypointing automatic and to the nearest non-contested at zero cost? Solves all problems.

Not all problems. There is the time to run back to the event cost. Your solution isn’t truly 0 cost.

And to me, that time is valuable. I can’t get back that time. I can get back the few silver used to resurrect if I go all the way dead. Or the free rez someone nearby gave.

Personally, I do not think there is a problem with the downed state and how it makes a majority of players feel about death. The only problem I think it has is a lack of a instant die button. For when you know there is no getting back up.

DGraves.3720:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

DGraves.3720:

Why not just make waypointing automatic and to the nearest non-contested at zero cost? Solves all problems.

If that were an option we could use at our discretion, then yes.

I’d also love a “DO NOT RESS” flag I could pop up sometimes when I don’t want people to waste their time on me (e.g. at Teq).

But I believe a dead character still raises the difficulty, or “scales up the event” or however it is said, right?

Not sure. I wouldn’t be lying around long anyway. I’d wp out as soon as I can find the wp on the map (sooner if your auto-wp idea were real ) but while I’m in the map mode trying to find the wp I hate to see that “Some noble soul is reviving you” message and know they’re wasting time on someone who’s just going to wp out. It could get them killed for nothing.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

DGraves.3720:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

DGraves.3720:

Why not just make waypointing automatic and to the nearest non-contested at zero cost? Solves all problems.

If that were an option we could use at our discretion, then yes.

I’d also love a “DO NOT RESS” flag I could pop up sometimes when I don’t want people to waste their time on me (e.g. at Teq).

But I believe a dead character still raises the difficulty, or “scales up the event” or however it is said, right?

Not sure. I wouldn’t be lying around long anyway. I’d wp out as soon as I can find the wp on the map (sooner if your auto-wp idea were real ) but while I’m in the map mode trying to find the wp I hate to see that “Some noble soul is reviving you” message and know they’re wasting time on someone who’s just going to wp out. It could get them killed for nothing.

You’re probably helping them by WP’ing out asap. They probably meant to get the downed player that died right next to you thanks to the lovely priority system choosing the dead player over the downed player.

What would solve this issue more for zerg like group events is activated or passive allies to rez for people instead. Much like in Auric Basin you have the Exalted medic guy that rezzes people.

This allows one to not worry about dead people and focus on their task and at the same time ignore the worry of dying yourself and having to worry about missing credit from WPing as well.
Given most world events are timed, this becomes a non-issue anyways.

A much more elegant solution to the NUMEROUS reasons to be able to revive people in defeated state.

Seera.5916:

DGraves.3720:

Why not just make waypointing automatic and to the nearest non-contested at zero cost? Solves all problems.

Not all problems. There is the time to run back to the event cost. Your solution isn’t truly 0 cost.

And to me, that time is valuable. I can’t get back that time. I can get back the few silver used to resurrect if I go all the way dead. Or the free rez someone nearby gave.

Personally, I do not think there is a problem with the downed state and how it makes a majority of players feel about death. The only problem I think it has is a lack of a instant die button. For when you know there is no getting back up.

Well, I have no problem with you getting the resurrection but if you’re full dead generally speaking it takes close to the same amount of time to pick you back up, esp. if those who are trying to resurrect you have to run around and dodge and whatnot, so it’s more of a courtesy thing.

I thought this was about being “full dead”?

Some of us play with party members or friends whilst doing PvE, and would like to revive them so they don’t have to run all the way back, especially if that member is really close to a waypoint, but not close enough to have unlocked it yet. Some suggestions here would be very unfair to these types of players.

Instead, how about just a PvP-style timer to WP? And also, dead players don’t upscale events. That wouldn’t punish people for being dead, and hopefully would stop map chat arguing about it, albeit would take some time.

Edit: Remember PvE is more than just Meta Events and World Bosses!

Seera.5916:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

DGraves.3720:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

DGraves.3720:

Why not just make waypointing automatic and to the nearest non-contested at zero cost? Solves all problems.

If that were an option we could use at our discretion, then yes.

I’d also love a “DO NOT RESS” flag I could pop up sometimes when I don’t want people to waste their time on me (e.g. at Teq).

But I believe a dead character still raises the difficulty, or “scales up the event” or however it is said, right?

Not sure. I wouldn’t be lying around long anyway. I’d wp out as soon as I can find the wp on the map (sooner if your auto-wp idea were real ) but while I’m in the map mode trying to find the wp I hate to see that “Some noble soul is reviving you” message and know they’re wasting time on someone who’s just going to wp out. It could get them killed for nothing.

You’re probably helping them by WP’ing out asap. They probably meant to get the downed player that died right next to you thanks to the lovely priority system choosing the dead player over the downed player.

Indeed. And sometimes when rezzing I have this dread that some random npc will run up and get in the way with his Talk action like at banks and crafting stations.

DGraves.3720:

Seera.5916:

DGraves.3720:

Why not just make waypointing automatic and to the nearest non-contested at zero cost? Solves all problems.

Not all problems. There is the time to run back to the event cost. Your solution isn’t truly 0 cost.

And to me, that time is valuable. I can’t get back that time. I can get back the few silver used to resurrect if I go all the way dead. Or the free rez someone nearby gave.

Personally, I do not think there is a problem with the downed state and how it makes a majority of players feel about death. The only problem I think it has is a lack of a instant die button. For when you know there is no getting back up.

Well, I have no problem with you getting the resurrection but if you’re full dead generally speaking it takes close to the same amount of time to pick you back up, esp. if those who are trying to resurrect you have to run around and dodge and whatnot, so it’s more of a courtesy thing.

I thought this was about being “full dead”?

Probably, but either way your solution isn’t 0 cost.

And there are instances where I’m just exploring the world, fall to far, and then die. And die right on top of friendly players. Your solution would have me waypointed instantly off to some random WP possibly in the opposite direction of where I was headed (and I may have chosen to WP to a closer WP to where I was headed should I die en route – I sometimes chose to run to my destination instead of WP so I’m not necessarily intending to play in that area). Instead of being able to be resurrected by the friendly players.

Seera.5916:

DGraves.3720:

Seera.5916:

DGraves.3720:

Why not just make waypointing automatic and to the nearest non-contested at zero cost? Solves all problems.

Not all problems. There is the time to run back to the event cost. Your solution isn’t truly 0 cost.

And to me, that time is valuable. I can’t get back that time. I can get back the few silver used to resurrect if I go all the way dead. Or the free rez someone nearby gave.

Personally, I do not think there is a problem with the downed state and how it makes a majority of players feel about death. The only problem I think it has is a lack of a instant die button. For when you know there is no getting back up.

Well, I have no problem with you getting the resurrection but if you’re full dead generally speaking it takes close to the same amount of time to pick you back up, esp. if those who are trying to resurrect you have to run around and dodge and whatnot, so it’s more of a courtesy thing.

I thought this was about being “full dead”?

Probably, but either way your solution isn’t 0 cost.

And there are instances where I’m just exploring the world, fall to far, and then die. And die right on top of friendly players. Your solution would have me waypointed instantly off to some random WP possibly in the opposite direction of where I was headed (and I may have chosen to WP to a closer WP to where I was headed should I die en route – I sometimes chose to run to my destination instead of WP so I’m not necessarily intending to play in that area). Instead of being able to be resurrected by the friendly players.

Well, it is zero cost in-game but everything has an implicit cost. As for whisking you away the auto-resurrection need not be instantaneous. It just has to be long enough that players who wouldn’t mind taking a face forward dirt-nap in hopes of being saved because they are lazy get up. You are free to whisk yourself away to where ever.

I mean even before the revamp when people played Shatterer they wouldn’t waypoint. They would lay there dead. And some would shout that no one rezzed them. My brain just sort of melted a little that day two years ago so forgive me if I seem to not hitting your critical concerns accurately. Never been the same since.

I’d rather change it so that skills that raise downed players also resurrect defeated ones. But that might break WvW.

DGraves.3720:

Seera.5916:

DGraves.3720:

Seera.5916:

DGraves.3720:

Why not just make waypointing automatic and to the nearest non-contested at zero cost? Solves all problems.

Not all problems. There is the time to run back to the event cost. Your solution isn’t truly 0 cost.

And to me, that time is valuable. I can’t get back that time. I can get back the few silver used to resurrect if I go all the way dead. Or the free rez someone nearby gave.

Personally, I do not think there is a problem with the downed state and how it makes a majority of players feel about death. The only problem I think it has is a lack of a instant die button. For when you know there is no getting back up.

Well, I have no problem with you getting the resurrection but if you’re full dead generally speaking it takes close to the same amount of time to pick you back up, esp. if those who are trying to resurrect you have to run around and dodge and whatnot, so it’s more of a courtesy thing.

I thought this was about being “full dead”?

Probably, but either way your solution isn’t 0 cost.

And there are instances where I’m just exploring the world, fall to far, and then die. And die right on top of friendly players. Your solution would have me waypointed instantly off to some random WP possibly in the opposite direction of where I was headed (and I may have chosen to WP to a closer WP to where I was headed should I die en route – I sometimes chose to run to my destination instead of WP so I’m not necessarily intending to play in that area). Instead of being able to be resurrected by the friendly players.

Well, it is zero cost in-game but everything has an implicit cost. As for whisking you away the auto-resurrection need not be instantaneous. It just has to be long enough that players who wouldn’t mind taking a face forward dirt-nap in hopes of being saved because they are lazy get up. You are free to whisk yourself away to where ever.

I mean even before the revamp when people played Shatterer they wouldn’t waypoint. They would lay there dead. And some would shout that no one rezzed them. My brain just sort of melted a little that day two years ago so forgive me if I seem to not hitting your critical concerns accurately. Never been the same since.

Sometimes I like to take extended dirt naps and watch what’s going on. See if I can’t catch the tell if it’s a longer fight. Your solution would rob me of that ability.

Or I decide to do a bit of inventory management while I’m dead.

Or I can’t decide which WP to go because I really didn’t know what I wanted to do, so I just set out towards one of them and now I’m thinking about what I want to do again and don’t mind laying in the dirt while I do so.

Or I could be one of the players who had to walk away in an emergency and didn’t necessarily commit to memory where they were so being whisked away is a bad thing for them.

Not all dirt nappers are lazy. We may just be doing something else.

I don’t ask to be rezed if I’m dead dead during world bosses.

Now if there was a setting called: Auto-WP on death, I’d be totally fine with that because then players could choose. But I don’t want to be told which WP I get resurrected at because I happened to decide to take the fact that my character’s taking a dirt nap as a good time to go to the bathroom. Or to check my email.

@OP – I doubt very much this would teach a lot of players anything other than not participating in events after a certain numbers of deaths.

The ammount of players needing resurrecting is never very large in any event so I fail to see how it puts the progress at risk.

“a small malus” – with the current flawed system of filling low pop maps there’s no guarantee you’ll end up in the same map after wp’ing, especially not in HoT maps, resulting in no reward and the malus becoming other than small. There are enough goldsinks already in game.

“Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to punish bad players.” – LOL

Annika.7084:

The ammount of players needing resurrecting is never very large in any event so I fail to see how it puts the progress at risk.

Have you ever done DS meta or Tequatl recently? The amount of defeated players not porting somewhere else makes it difficult to rezz those who are only in down state.

Annika.7084:

“a small malus” – with the current flawed system of filling low pop maps there’s no guarantee you’ll end up in the same map after wp’ing, especially not in HoT maps, resulting in no reward and the malus becoming other than small.

If you use a waypoint in the same map, you are never sent to a different instance of the map. That has never occured to me or anyone I know in game.

Annika.7084:

“Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to punish bad players.” – LOL

Well, if you don’t believe this, I can’t change it.

What if the game had been like I propose from the beginning? Everybody would say “down state is a short time where others can help you, after that… well, you died, so get back here”. Nobody would see a drawback because they had to run to the same place again (like it is in almost any other game anyways), nobody would be upset because they had to do that jumping puzzle again (maybe more people would rage about that awful camera collision system), it would not cause players to not go to more complex events.

And does anybody complain that SAB is like that? You’re dead, back to last checkpoint?
I personally find it a lost opportunity that we don’t have that.

Halvorn.9831:

Annika.7084:

The ammount of players needing resurrecting is never very large in any event so I fail to see how it puts the progress at risk.

Have you ever done DS meta or Tequatl recently? The amount of defeated players not porting somewhere else makes it difficult to rezz those who are only in down state.

Annika.7084:

“a small malus” – with the current flawed system of filling low pop maps there’s no guarantee you’ll end up in the same map after wp’ing, especially not in HoT maps, resulting in no reward and the malus becoming other than small.

If you use a waypoint in the same map, you are never sent to a different instance of the map. That has never occured to me or anyone I know in game.

Annika.7084:

“Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to punish bad players.” – LOL

Well, if you don’t believe this, I can’t change it.

What if the game had been like I propose from the beginning? Everybody would say “down state is a short time where others can help you, after that… well, you died, so get back here”. Nobody would see a drawback because they had to run to the same place again (like it is in almost any other game anyways), nobody would be upset because they had to do that jumping puzzle again (maybe more people would rage about that awful camera collision system), it would not cause players to not go to more complex events.

And does anybody complain that SAB is like that? You’re dead, back to last checkpoint?
I personally find it a lost opportunity that we don’t have that.

I want full control over what waypoint I go to after I die. I do not want the game to decide it for me. I may have decided that if I die one more time in Verdant Brink that I’m going to rage quit and have the character start playing in Orr and waypoint there instead of to the nearest waypoint. Or that I’ve played longer than a I should have and this is a good a time as any to waypoint to Lion’s Arch, deal with my inventory and log off for the night.

And don’t speak for everyone. I would be kittened that I had to run back instead of waiting the two seconds until the boss was defeated to be rezzed by kind souls so that I can get the boss chest before it disappears. No, I am not one of those who die two seconds into a world boss fight and then yell out for people to rez me. I waypoint out and run back should that happen. But if the boss is on the last sliver and will likely be dead before I can realistically WP out and run back, I’ll stay dead. Because by that point, my lack of DPS isn’t going to be the deciding factor on whether or not the boss dies before the timer expires.

Again, I do not want the game to decide where I get waypointed to. Sometimes I don’t want the nearest waypoint.

The other day, someone asked in map chat, “What happens if die and don’t have enough coin to wp?” Not his/her exact words, but you get the point. The reason he/she asked this was because he/she was in this situation. I told said person that I would rezz them. If we used your idea, OP, that person would have been still stuck, unable to ask for help, let alone to get it.

Seera.5916:

Halvorn.9831:

Annika.7084:

The ammount of players needing resurrecting is never very large in any event so I fail to see how it puts the progress at risk.

Have you ever done DS meta or Tequatl recently? The amount of defeated players not porting somewhere else makes it difficult to rezz those who are only in down state.

Annika.7084:

“a small malus” – with the current flawed system of filling low pop maps there’s no guarantee you’ll end up in the same map after wp’ing, especially not in HoT maps, resulting in no reward and the malus becoming other than small.

If you use a waypoint in the same map, you are never sent to a different instance of the map. That has never occured to me or anyone I know in game.

Annika.7084:

“Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to punish bad players.” – LOL

Well, if you don’t believe this, I can’t change it.

What if the game had been like I propose from the beginning? Everybody would say “down state is a short time where others can help you, after that… well, you died, so get back here”. Nobody would see a drawback because they had to run to the same place again (like it is in almost any other game anyways), nobody would be upset because they had to do that jumping puzzle again (maybe more people would rage about that awful camera collision system), it would not cause players to not go to more complex events.

And does anybody complain that SAB is like that? You’re dead, back to last checkpoint?
I personally find it a lost opportunity that we don’t have that.

I want full control over what waypoint I go to after I die. I do not want the game to decide it for me. I may have decided that if I die one more time in Verdant Brink that I’m going to rage quit and have the character start playing in Orr and waypoint there instead of to the nearest waypoint. Or that I’ve played longer than a I should have and this is a good a time as any to waypoint to Lion’s Arch, deal with my inventory and log off for the night.

And don’t speak for everyone. I would be kittened that I had to run back instead of waiting the two seconds until the boss was defeated to be rezzed by kind souls so that I can get the boss chest before it disappears. No, I am not one of those who die two seconds into a world boss fight and then yell out for people to rez me. I waypoint out and run back should that happen. But if the boss is on the last sliver and will likely be dead before I can realistically WP out and run back, I’ll stay dead. Because by that point, my lack of DPS isn’t going to be the deciding factor on whether or not the boss dies before the timer expires.

Again, I do not want the game to decide where I get waypointed to. Sometimes I don’t want the nearest waypoint.

This is a somewhat pointless side-debate. This should be an option so people can choose auto-wp if they want it. New features should generally be made optional people can choose if they want them (cough visual nerfs cough)

The more important point made in this thread is how to prioritise downed players so if downed/defeated overlap, the downed are ressed first. Maybe the action links for downed should always be top-most. Maybe the defeated should not be ressable in combat. These are points that need discussion.

Uden Reavstone.3426:

The other day, someone asked in map chat, “What happens if die and don’t have enough coin to wp?” Not his/her exact words, but you get the point. The reason he/she asked this was because he/she was in this situation. I told said person that I would rezz them. If we used your idea, OP, that person would have been still stuck, unable to ask for help, let alone to get it.

I believe I’ve read that if you die and have no money, you’re allowed to rez at the closest discovered WP to you for free. But only that one, I believe.

Seera.5916:

Uden Reavstone.3426:

The other day, someone asked in map chat, “What happens if die and don’t have enough coin to wp?” Not his/her exact words, but you get the point. The reason he/she asked this was because he/she was in this situation. I told said person that I would rezz them. If we used your idea, OP, that person would have been still stuck, unable to ask for help, let alone to get it.

I believe I’ve read that if you die and have no money, you’re allowed to rez at the closest discovered WP to you for free. But only that one, I believe.

That must be new. Back before Anet released the wallet, I found myself in a similar situation, and I was unable to wp out.