Guild Wars 2

I see a lot of arguments on the forums that devolve into debates where both sides are arguing for or against something and just don’t realise it due to having different meanings for the same term.

This got me curious as I’ve had debates go similarly due to this in the context of Guildwars 2 I wanted to see do people agree with the definitions I have for hot topic issues (this is just their definition not the stance on them.), I’ll make a statement for each term and people can post with their own definitions of it.

Rarity: Is control of HOW MANY people will have access to an item I.E for every 100 people that want x only 1 person will acquire it. A rare item is the molten jet pack as it has a finite amount, low volume and high demand.

Prestige: Is control of WHO can have an item/reward based on a set criteria that is content not gold based, and is ONLY obtainable from this criteria. I.E 100 people want y but only the top 10 can have it. Liandri is a prestige item, it can only be obtained by completing a specific fight which requires a reasonable level of skill.

Skill: Is the capacity to preform an action to a higher standard than the majority/ vast majority of players, the higher the skill the more players surpassed. It is not a hard definition and is dependant on comparison to the people around you. (I.E you may be skilled in comparison to the general population, but be unskilled in comparison to a top guild.)

Elitism The use of arbitrary additional requirements in a perceived attempt at raising the standard of player. I.E requiring 5k AP, a blue hat, sylvari only. This does not extend to say requiring a guardian or zerk in a specific situation as they do provide a tangible benefit.

Veteran: A player with a long play time in terms of both hours and account age. No distinction to skill made.

Elite: A name for a skilled player, usually also with veteran status. Has no connection to elitism despite name similarities.

Hard/Challenging content: Is content that results in a failure state (and by extension no acquisition of the rewards) for the vast majority of players despite repeated attempts while also requiring individual effort. I.E A Pvp match is not hard/challenging content because failure still results in rewards regardless of success and a poor quality player may be carried. Sab Tribulation mode is hard content as most people still failed to complete it within the time-frame despite repeated attempts, rewards could only be obtained upon successful completion.

Difficulty: Is a measure of the challenge posed by a piece of content IN COMPARISON to the player-base as a whole. I.E on a 1- 10 scale a Difficulty 1 would be completable by 100% of the player base while a difficulty 10 would be completable by 0.1% of the player base.

Example sentence: A legendary is not a rare(1) or prestigious(2) item it is low difficulty(3) to acquire as it does not require any display of skill(4).
(1): an unlimited amount can be created (forge for new precursors)
(2): Anyone can acquire one with no regard for their abilities or in-game actions.
(3): No step in the process involves playing content higher than difficulty 1.
(4): All actions are reasonably completable by anyone.

I can’t say I would agree to some of your definitions, but I don’t usually debate topics dealing with those, either.

Even if I agreed with your definitions, a single post isn’t going to get everyone to start using the same terminology.

When I’m posting, I try to use words that are less ambiguous, so that everyone is more likely to consider the same concepts when they read them.

For example, I don’t complain (on the forums) about grinding to get traits in the current game. I would say that I don’t like repeating identical events on new characters, that I don’t like needing to keep a spreadsheet to track which events I’ve completed (or where they are), and so on — for me, that’s “grindy,” but for someone else (e.g. Colin Johanson), it might not be.

Just like the English language you just simply cannot have uniformity when it comes to the definition of words. It’s upto the reader to make sure they have read the entire post and understand the context around it. No dictionary will player made or otherwise will fix that.

You can include the definitions for viable and optimal. They tend to get used synonymously when they actually don’t have the same meaning.

If you’re unsure of how someone is using a term, ask them.

That’s the wonders of the English language. Words can have different meanings when used in different contexts. Trying to align a definition without context is what leads to misunderstandings.

For example, Elite can refer to the description for our ingame skill. Frequently in other games this might be called ‘Ultimate’ or ‘Final’. It doesn’t always refer to a skilled player.

Akikaze.1307:

For example, Elite can refer to the description for our ingame skill. Frequently in other games this might be called ‘Ultimate’ or ‘Final’. It doesn’t always refer to a skilled player.

I would argue that most of the time when you say to another player “You’re so elite!” you are actually saying “GG kittening kitten noob idiot kitten I hope you go kitten yourself and jump off a kittening tower in DR”.

Define GRIND…

My aim with this thread was just to see how my definitions compare with others I’m not trying to set a standard terminology.

Dawdler.8521:

Akikaze.1307:

For example, Elite can refer to the description for our ingame skill. Frequently in other games this might be called ‘Ultimate’ or ‘Final’. It doesn’t always refer to a skilled player.

I would argue that most of the time when you say to another player “You’re so elite!” you are actually saying “GG kittening kitten noob idiot kitten I hope you go kitten yourself and jump off a kittening tower in DR”.

Actually another game I played had a set term for this, If you were being called “Pro” it meant you were a person who thought they were good at the game but usually wound up dead. And then Elite was used to refer to someone who was actually good.

Ayrilana.1396:

You can include the definitions for viable and optimal. They tend to get used synonymously when they actually don’t have the same meaning.

Viable: A setup or team that can successfully complete the piece of content faced. I.E it took an hour to do Cof 1 but you still did it.

Optimal: A setup or team that can successfully complete a piece of content in the fastest or near fastest manner possible.

would be my definitions of that.

Knighthonor.4061:

Define GRIND…

I’d split that one into two.

Required grind: Actions that must be taken to reach minimum acceptable efficiency in a game (usually being able to participate at the lowest level of every form of content.) I.E leveling up and wearing level 80 whites-exotics is technically this games required grind. as they now have access to all content , even beginner fractals.

Optional grind: content requiring repeated completions or large volumes of the same item to gain rewards, usually for cosmetic items, or advanced armors (Ascended). may provide in game advantages but is not required for minimum play.

you are at least wrong on the elitism, even though it is almost always used incorrectly around here and in mmorpg forums in general. Elitism is a mindset or a system that calls for special rights, favors etc. based on the sole reason someone belongs to a certain social group. People that get called elitists around here are usually not matching that definition. In fact, it is usually people who call for equal treatment of everyone, like demanding a certain gear set, a certain build of EVERYONE who wants to get into a dungeon group. Special treatment is usually demanded from the other end of the spectrum, people who don´t bother honing their abilities, acquiring the gear etc. and showing a sense of entitlement to still get accepted even though they don´t qualify for the limits so called “elitists” set for themselves.

Grind: Repetition of specific content in order to achieve the next tier of content. E.G. Grind mobs to level up for the next area of higher level mobs. Grinding Fractals in order to achieve the highest level Fractal content.

Farm: Repetition of specific content in order to achieve materialistic gain such as gold or items. E.G. Farming Silverwastes for that HoT BETA portal stone, or farming mats to craft my Ascended gear, or farming Dry Top to craft my Nomads gear.

Algreg.3629:

you are at least wrong on the elitism, even though it is almost always used incorrectly around here and in mmorpg forums in general. Elitism is a mindset or a system that calls for special rights, favors etc. based on the sole reason someone belongs to a certain social group. People that get called elitists around here are usually not matching that definition. In fact, it is usually people who call for equal treatment of everyone, like demanding a certain gear set, a certain build of EVERYONE who wants to get into a dungeon group. Special treatment is usually demanded from the other end of the spectrum, people who don´t bother honing their abilities, acquiring the gear etc. and showing a sense of entitlement to still get accepted even though they don´t qualify for the limits so called “elitists” set for themselves.

That is indeed the general real world image of elitism, when it’s thrown around online though (in the context of MMO’s) I do feel it has a different meaning or has come to have a different meaning in my opinion.

Some people have taken to throwing it around for anything that’s “people making me play a certain way” even if that way has been proven to increase results/performance.

Take 4 examples:

A dungeon run requiring sylvari only: That is pure (online def) elitism, no practical reason.

A dungeon run requiring 10k AP : That is an example of semi-elitism (online def) as it excludes players on a not purely scientific basis, it can however be used as a general indicator.

A dungeon run requiring zerk: That is not elitism (online def) but is (real world def) It’s trying to increase the overall efficiency of the run which is acceptable.

part of it is that the goals are different between the real world environment and an MMO.
For instance wanting to be top of the food chain, have all the nice things, and prevent others outside your group from getting them is real world elitism, but in an MMO is expected and is acceptable as the objective of a competitive environment.