Guild Wars 2

User Ken DeBoer brought up an interesting point in the other forums, and I wanted to see if we could get confirmation on something. My apologies if this was brought up in a different thread.

When you mine a node, you have a small percentage to get bonus ore. Example, mining an Orichalcum node typically gives you 3 ore, with an x% chance to get a bonus 1 to 3 additional ore. Does the new Watchwork Mining Pick completely replace that bonus ore chance with sprockets? If the later is true, that means the new pick is actually worse off when mining T6 nodes.

I think confirmation on this mechanic would help calm the current rage storm. I personally don’t like having a pick give additional bonus items with usage, but I’m completely fine if that mechanic already existed in game (and we were unaware of it).

There is no indication in the official description of the pick that this is the case. Because of that, I’d imagine if it turned out to be true, we’d see some pretty angry people on the forums.

In any case, as I understand it, only very small sample sizes have been checked (I’m not even sure any real testing has been done as opposed to “it feels like…”).

Anet needs to be forthcoming with this, simply because there are a lot of upset players who might very well be upset over nothing. But I do realize that Devs generally don’t comment on game mechanics.

If the mechanics existed already, that’s fine. If the new pick gives a bonus on top of a bonus, then as Vol said, we’re very close to the P2W line (although I still wouldn’t call it that).

I’d like to know this myself. I bought 2 picks and if it does then I actually would rather use Orichalcum Mining Picks instead.

Then again, the 20% chance to mine Watchwork Sprockets isn’t advertised either. There might be some definite bugs going on with these mining picks.

p.s. I haven’t seen an ‘extra’ bonus ore since I’ve started using this mining pick. But that could be just RNG.

I think only master tools have that extra chance to get materials when mining (or if you are using the appropriate guild buff)

maddoctor.2738:

I think only master tools have that extra chance to get materials when mining (or if you are using the appropriate guild buff)

I believe all mining or harvesting has an inherent chance to get bonuses. But I digress. There are so many threads and comments popping up, and an Anet Mod or Dev will need to try and explain this mechanic either way.

If it’s an existing mechanic, let it be known. If it’s a bonus on top of a bonus, let it be known. At least then we can debate the item, rather than assume it’s one way or the other.

I think the OP asked a really valid question which, in light of the continuing controversy on the watchwork pick, quite deserves an answer. People spent big bucks on these picks, it’s not exactly charity work to answer it.

So to summerize. the question is:
Does the Watchwork Mining pick has a lower change on getting an extra ore??

I don’t know off course, but I am curious bout it. It would solve many hot topics on this forum.

So far, the Devs have left us players to research this. I’ve mailed Chris Whiteside, asking that he perhaps step in and clear this confusion, but I didn’t get a response.

Unofficial research results are pointing to the mechanics being “replaced”. The bonus chance of ore from the node type is replaced by sprockets.

If anything, this controversy can be a lesson for the designers. If there’s a company policy in place that doesn’t allow Devs to discuss mechanics, said mechanics placed in descriptions of items should be less ambiguous. Everyone saw the new Watchwork pick as “new mechanics”, with the bonus chance of giving specific items. This caused rage in the population, since it “appeared” to give an advantage over other similar Gem Shop items. If the mechanics existed, and was just altered, a better description would have been: 20% bonus chance at additional ore mined is replaced with a chance for sprockets.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If the mechanics existed, and was just altered, a better description would have been: 20% bonus chance at additional ore mined is replaced with a chance for sprockets.

Reminds me of a Monty Python sketch.

Mine Kampf

Alas, I can’t offer links, but I’m pretty sure I saw some player reports showing that they did get both bonus items (gems) and bonus pulls (extra ore) in their tests with the Watchwork Mining Pick. Sorry I can’t offer something more concrete or direct (I don’t have one), but I’m pretty sure the pick’s sprocket bonus does not replace any existing tool mechanic.

And even if it did, it wouldn’t calm the “rage storm”, because that’s not what it’s about. The primary complaints are store-only in-game advantages (e.g. “P2W”, though not in the strictest sense) and effective obsolescence of other store-only infinite gathering tools (with the presumption that more examples will follow).

My own theory is that this isn’t some sinister plan, but a desire on the part of designers to offer something “thematic” to the Watchwork Mining Pick, and extend that concept to other gathering tool motifs in the form of modest bonuses.

The problem, of course, is that offering any form of advantage exclusively through gem purchases opens a very nasty Pandora’s Box far too many of us have seen opened before in other MMOs.

So while I don’t see a conspiracy here, I do see an innocent miscalculation that has the potential to snowball into Very Bad Things if it becomes a trend — just as it has in other games such as LOTRO and STO.

I suspect the silence on this issue has more to do with ArenaNet having to get people from different departments to come to some sort of consensus, rather than stonewalling. They really do try to be as upfront as they can, but they can’t tell us anything definitive if they’re not sure themselves.

So here’s hoping we’ll see a decision and announcement sooner, rather than later, and hopefully they will reassure us by backing out this disturbing feature and affirming sensible policies on store-only items, rather than alarming us.

Smooth,

Do you use the wiki??
If we haven’t heard an answer in a few days we could set up a research page on the wiki. I have the Molten Alliance Mining Pick. We could start recording our results on a private page. you with the clockwork and me with the molten one. If we both dont use guildboosts and record for say 5 days we should have consisting data on the subject.

I can use some motivation to start mining all orichalcum notes again on a daily basis

mercury ranique.2170:

Smooth,

Do you use the wiki??
If we haven’t heard an answer in a few days we could set up a research page on the wiki. I have the Molten Alliance Mining Pick. We could start recording our results on a private page. you with the clockwork and me with the molten one. If we both dont use guildboosts and record for say 5 days we should have consisting data on the subject.

I can use some motivation to start mining all orichalcum notes again on a daily basis

Problem is, I didn’t buy the Watchwork pick. Don’t need to, since I got the Molten one. I’m just hearing reports from people who were willing to buy the new pick, and their mining stories. So far, it’s been all “no bonus ore” from their mining attempts, which ties into the theory that the sprockets replace the extra source ore. I’d prefer an official response, and am hopeful we’ll get one.

Edit – One side note. The “P2W” complainers wouldn’t believe in my research results, since I’m a big GW fanboi. They’d probably think I’m slightly biased.

Has anyone actually gotten more than one ore from one swing since the patch?
Currently the WvW bonus is not working(for me at least, maybe that needs rank 30 as well now).

Attached are the results of mining more or less the same nodes on 3 characters using a mithril(top), molten(middle) and watchwork(bottom) pick.

None of the hits gave more than one ore.

The sprocket does not replace the gemstones(second picture).

The only type of ore that can grant more than one ore per swing is iron ore, and it’s an inherent balancing mechanic because iron ore is tied to two crafting tiers instead of one. If you can mine gemstones with the new pick – and on the same swing as a sprocket – then iron ore is the only one that needs to be tested.

And I doubt the sprocket replaces the chance of getting 2 iron ore with one swing if it replaces nothing on any other ore type.

Dingle.2743:

The only type of ore that can grant more than one ore per swing is iron ore, and it’s an inherent balancing mechanic because iron ore is tied to two crafting tiers instead of one. If you can mine gemstones with the new pick – and on the same swing as a sprocket – then iron ore is the only one that needs to be tested.

And I doubt the sprocket replaces the chance of getting 2 iron ore with one swing if it replaces nothing on any other ore type.

Platinum is used for Platinum and Darksteel so that is pretty much the same situation.

Khisanth.2948:

Dingle.2743:

The only type of ore that can grant more than one ore per swing is iron ore, and it’s an inherent balancing mechanic because iron ore is tied to two crafting tiers instead of one. If you can mine gemstones with the new pick – and on the same swing as a sprocket – then iron ore is the only one that needs to be tested.

And I doubt the sprocket replaces the chance of getting 2 iron ore with one swing if it replaces nothing on any other ore type.

Platinum is used for Platinum and Darksteel so that is pretty much the same situation.

Platinum and Darksteel are the same tier (t5). Iron and Steel are t2/t3 respectively.

Getting 2 ore and sprocket in the same swing.

I can corroborate Khisanth’s data that the Watchwork Pick does not remove the ability to gain extra strikes on a node. The Watchwork Pick also still has chances to get bonus materials like gemstones from ore nodes. Whether it lessens the chance to get these is still unknown, but so far my personal experience is leaning towards “no”, as I have not noticed any significant decrease in the number of times these bonuses occur.

So if I’m right, and the Watchwork Pick basically has an extra benefit (sprockets) that no other picks have, one would be a fool to buy anything other than the Watchwork Pick when shopping for an unlimited pick when you consider current prices. (And that, ultimately, is what concerns me the most about this whole situation.)

Heck, 2 ore, a sprocket and a gemstone. That single swing was the best possible swing.

Khisanth.2948:

Getting 2 ore and sprocket in the same swing.

That’s not the ‘extra’ ore. That’s a normal property of a rich iron ore vein. The ‘extra’ ore would have to popup on the side, together with a normal ore and a sprocket. It has to pop up like this:
Ore
Ore
Sprocket

I’ve not even gotten the following with 1 mine swing since using the Watchwork Sprocket pick:
Ore
Ore

Dingle.2743:

Heck, 2 ore, a sprocket and a gemstone. That single swing was the best possible swing.

I seem to remember getting 3 ore from one swing. :P

As for the 2 unstacked ore from one swing thing. I only seem to get that from logs these days but considering how often I get sprockets I don’t think it works as a replacement for anything and unless it’s an ori node I don’t think there is even a reason to care.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

mercury ranique.2170:

Smooth,

Do you use the wiki??
If we haven’t heard an answer in a few days we could set up a research page on the wiki. I have the Molten Alliance Mining Pick. We could start recording our results on a private page. you with the clockwork and me with the molten one. If we both dont use guildboosts and record for say 5 days we should have consisting data on the subject.

I can use some motivation to start mining all orichalcum notes again on a daily basis

Problem is, I didn’t buy the Watchwork pick. Don’t need to, since I got the Molten one. I’m just hearing reports from people who were willing to buy the new pick, and their mining stories. So far, it’s been all “no bonus ore” from their mining attempts, which ties into the theory that the sprockets replace the extra source ore. I’d prefer an official response, and am hopeful we’ll get one.

Edit – One side note. The “P2W” complainers wouldn’t believe in my research results, since I’m a big GW fanboi. They’d probably think I’m slightly biased.

I’ve gotten both bonuses from mining with my pick. I don’t think one affects the other. You might get one bonus, both bonuses, or no bonuses. I didn’t even think about how it might be a big deal, until I saw your topic.

Are we all absolutely sure that ore nodes can give:

Ore
Ore

from a single strike? (Outside of Rich Iron Vein’s 2 × 1 iron ore)

Because while I frequently see:

Log
Log

from harvesting trees, or:

2 Carrots etc.

from harvesting plants, I cannot remember ever getting extra ore in a single strike from ore nodes, aside from the “bonus strikes” granted by the WvW Gatherer bonus. I always presumed that this was intended since Rich Veins exist and no equivalent node exists for trees and plants.