We’re committed to Ascended gear being the best tier in the game and not planning on adding any more tiers. We think this change better places Ascended gear as a bridge between Exotic and Legendary. In no way does it go back on any of the things we’ve said we want for GW2. We thank you for the support of this wonderful community that is one of the best of any MMORPG we know. #colinsmile
I want to hear why this change was made – you’ve completely reversed your position on tiers now.
How is this a reversal of position on tiers?
They aren’t creating a new tier. All the current ascended gear you have will be buffed accordingly. You don’t need to go get all new gear.
They simply are making it a bit stronger than it was. Along with all the other gear that is getting buffed.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
I want to hear why this change was made – you’ve completely reversed your position on tiers now.
How is this a reversal of position on tiers?
They aren’t creating a new tier. All the current ascended gear you have will be buffed accordingly. You don’t need to go get all new gear.
They simply are making it a bit stronger than it was. Along with all the other gear that is getting buffed.
Which now forces you to get ascended to compete, especially in WvW. What if they nerf a build that you built an ascended set around?
I want to hear why this change was made – you’ve completely reversed your position on tiers now.
How is this a reversal of position on tiers?
They aren’t creating a new tier. All the current ascended gear you have will be buffed accordingly. You don’t need to go get all new gear.
They simply are making it a bit stronger than it was. Along with all the other gear that is getting buffed.
Which now forces you to get ascended to compete, especially in WvW. What if they nerf a build that you built an ascended set around?
It doesn’t “force” anyone to craft ascended in order to compete anymore that it already “forces” people to get ascended to compete.
Plus by now most people already have full ascended gear (at least those who are serious about “competing” in WvW).
Those only ones who are going to really care about it, are the min-maxers.
Either way, it still falls well within their position and philosophy of ascended gear.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
Back when people were celebrating the fact that ArenaNet was saying they would never add a gear beyond Ascended, there were people warning that the promise meant very little. There are too many other ways they can keep pulling players toward vertical progression beyond adding another tier of gear.
Clever marketing aside, the result is grinding levels and gear. Not so different from those other MMO’s after all…
There is a lot of stuff that is not so different from other MMOs, they just water it down, make it optional, and call it something else. Ascended and (New)Ascended is no different.
Either way, it still falls well within their position and philosophy of ascended gear.
Not that it matters, even if true. ArenaNet is always “iterating” and “nothing is off the table”. If the last three years have demonstrated anything, it’s that ArenaNet can change their minds at any time, about anything.
There is a lot of stuff that is not so different from other MMOs, they just water it down, make it optional, and call it something else. Ascended and (New)Ascended is no different.
Yes. The last three years have been a journey from “the MMORPG for people who hate MMORPGs” to “the MMORPG not quite as bad as other MMORPGs”.
I think the argument being made was the difference was small enough to ignore before and now it isn’t anymore. Of course we won’t know for sure until we see how exotics got buffed.
From ANet’s PoV they saw that the argument about not bothering with ascended due to the small stat difference and decided they need to do something to get more players adopting ascended.
So have cloth prices surged yet, anticipating the rush to craft ascended armor?
I think the argument being made was the difference was small enough to ignore before and now it isn’t anymore. Of course we won’t know for sure until we see how exotics got buffed.
From ANet’s PoV they saw that the argument about not bothering with ascended due to the small stat difference and decided they need to do something to get more players adopting ascended.
While not realizing that it makes the arguments of ascended defenders much weaker. It is now clear that Anet does want the stat difference to be significant. Which brings us back to the point of BiS being something we shouldn’t grind for.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
It has always been where it is now. GW2 is just a mix of what is wrong with MMOs and what is right. Depending on perspective.
I guess your mileage may vary.
At launch, I found GW2 to have fixed a lot of the things I hated about MMORPGs. Some of those fixes were in embryo stage, and could have been glorious if they had matured over time with further development, but they were there.
I don’t see how minor attribute buffs affect WvW zergs (or even medium sized roaming groups). This also doesn’t make any of the current content harder, not sure if the few extra stat points will be “required” for HoT bosses – although I doubt it.
Is this a violation of their original stance? Yes.
Long term, will it be nicer facing pve content with slightly more stats (versus the same tier enemies?) also yes.
On a side point, if the author of this thread is still around, could you change the full stop at the end of your topic title to a question mark? The way people mis-represent their threads on this forum is really starting to irk me. If I wanted click-bait I’ve got plenty of other sources to accommodate me.
I don’t see how minor attribute buffs affect WvW zergs (or even medium sized roaming groups). This also doesn’t make any of the current content harder, not sure if the few extra stat points will be “required” for HoT bosses – although I doubt it.
It’s definitely biggest for solo and small squad WvWers.
I don’t see how minor attribute buffs affect WvW zergs (or even medium sized roaming groups). This also doesn’t make any of the current content harder, not sure if the few extra stat points will be “required” for HoT bosses – although I doubt it.
Is this a violation of their original stance? Yes.
Long term, will it be nicer facing pve content with slightly more stats (versus the same tier enemies?) also yes.
On a side point, if the author of this thread is still around, could you change the full stop at the end of your topic title to a question mark? The way people mis-represent their threads on this forum is really starting to irk me. If I wanted click-bait I’ve got plenty of other sources to accommodate me.
People keep saying something to the effect that this increase is only minor, like people claimed before when the Ascended gear was introduced, but then why increase it at all unless the devs have some idea for a change or addition of content to warrant the stat increase while excluding those who don’t have it, which is fine, but that usually means the rest of the game becomes simple feed for the exclusive raid or dungeon and everything you do in the game funnels you to that point. So no matter what your area of interest is in this game, you’re going to be farming for Ascended one way or another.
It has always been where it is now. GW2 is just a mix of what is wrong with MMOs and what is right. Depending on perspective.
I guess your mileage may vary.
At launch, I found GW2 to have fixed a lot of the things I hated about MMORPGs. Some of those fixes were in embryo stage, and could have been glorious if they had matured over time with further development, but they were there.
Mine does, as I said its based on perspective. GW2 is the epitome of instant gratification, lack of risk vs reward, and the everything is endgame which means there is no endgame mentality.
I do still enjoy GW2 to some degree, but I’m not blind to the fact that Anet just took what made WoW+current MMOs popular as well as hated and created a jack of all trades, master of none.
One thing I think Anet completely missed the mark on, which doesn’t really apply to the right and wrong outlook, is not utilizing the open world PVE and dynamic events to create a more fluid game environment, aka a real “Living World”.
I want to hear why this change was made – you’ve completely reversed your position on tiers now.
Here is your answer:
When we decided to rework core specializations, this meant moving stat points from traits to gear. This inherently made all gear stronger, including Ascended gear. This also gave us an opportunity to provide a more meaningful distinction between Exotic gear and Ascended gear.
the rest of the game becomes simple feed for the exclusive raid or dungeon and everything you do in the game funnels you to that point. So no matter what your area of interest is in this game, you’re going to be farming for Ascended one way or another.
I honestly do not care if Anet decides to make a gear treadmill and adds a new tier with each living story update, but for the love of all six gods, make them obtainable without having to torture yourself crafting or praying to RNGesus. I refuse to craft especially in this game. The second I am forced to; I move on from this game.
I want to hear why this change was made – you’ve completely reversed your position on tiers now.
Here is your answer:
When we decided to rework core specializations, this meant moving stat points from traits to gear. This inherently made all gear stronger, including Ascended gear. This also gave us an opportunity to provide a more meaningful distinction between Exotic gear and Ascended gear.
Higher stats, infusion slots, and unique skins weren’t meaningful enough? It’s gone from meaningful to required. Also someone mentioned in a now closed thread that you can still do most pve in exotics, that doesn’t matter. In Age of Conan I could run my guild through most raid wings in blue gear with a few purples but if I showed up at anyone else’s raid I’d get turned away and laughed at.
I don’t see how minor attribute buffs affect WvW zergs (or even medium sized roaming groups). This also doesn’t make any of the current content harder, not sure if the few extra stat points will be “required” for HoT bosses – although I doubt it.
It’s definitely biggest for solo and small squad WvWers.
Agreed.
Biggest change would be for a WvW solo duel. A WvW 1v2 might give either side a few % better odds if they have ascended and the other side doesn’t. Though as a personal note, I’ve never seen a solo WvW warrior or guardian who wasn’t sporting eternity anyway.
5 person groups and up? I think the larger the group, the less impact it will have. Communication and skill doctrines still have way more of an effect then the 5% extra stats will. Plus, I never saw any complaints when they gave those WvW skills that gave stacking vitality bonuses?
Like most things GW2 these days, an irksome development to a niche group of players – but nothing outrageous enough to warrant complaints – unless you a cloth wearer, who needs a different ascended set after the trait changes -.-
I don’t see how minor attribute buffs affect WvW zergs (or even medium sized roaming groups). This also doesn’t make any of the current content harder, not sure if the few extra stat points will be “required” for HoT bosses – although I doubt it.
Is this a violation of their original stance? Yes.
Long term, will it be nicer facing pve content with slightly more stats (versus the same tier enemies?) also yes.
On a side point, if the author of this thread is still around, could you change the full stop at the end of your topic title to a question mark? The way people mis-represent their threads on this forum is really starting to irk me. If I wanted click-bait I’ve got plenty of other sources to accommodate me.
People keep saying something to the effect that this increase is only minor, like people claimed before when the Ascended gear was introduced, but then why increase it at all unless the devs have some idea for a change or addition of content to warrant the stat increase while excluding those who don’t have it, which is fine, but that usually means the rest of the game becomes simple feed for the exclusive raid or dungeon and everything you do in the game funnels you to that point. So no matter what your area of interest is in this game, you’re going to be farming for Ascended one way or another.
You don’t need ascended for pretty much all of PvE (except the highest of fractal levels, which is not worth doing anyways sinces rewards are underwhelming)
You don’t need ascended for sPvP
You don’t need it to zerg in WvW…
Its biggest area of impact is WvW roaming build diversity and min/maxing dungs..rest can easily be done in exoctics, just like its been doing since the release of ascended…
This change in ascended numbers is being way blown out of proportion….
One thing I think Anet completely missed the mark on, which doesn’t really apply to the right and wrong outlook, is not utilizing the open world PVE and dynamic events to create a more fluid game environment, aka a real “Living World”.
I absolutely agree. That’s what I was thinking of when I talked about things in embryo stage at launch. I know a lot of people felt dynamic events were just dressed-up, old-school quests, but I saw a lot of potential to make them into more dynamic, interlocking web-structured stories that play out across zones. They could have been developed to a level of complexity that made them feel truly dynamic.
But ArenaNet added a handful of new DEs early in the game that the player base didn’t notice or go gaga over. From there they took off in other directions from the original stated goal of continuing to expand and develop the DE networks within existing zones.
They had to adjust the difference between exotic and ascended because for the longest time ascended gave absolutely no benefit over exotic in areas below level 80. That is obscene since there’s only one level 80 dungeon aside from fractals, and I think this change is actually a good one. There should be a difference in attributes regardless of what map you’re in.
You don’t need ascended for pretty much all of PvE (except the highest of fractal levels, which is not worth doing anyways sinces rewards are underwhelming)
You don’t need ascended for sPvP
You don’t need it to zerg in WvW…
Its biggest area of impact is WvW roaming build diversity and min/maxing dungs..rest can easily be done in exoctics, just like its been doing since the release of ascended…
You wont need it but groups will think they will need you to have it. You will certainly cripple any group who forms with a tier of gear in mind. That’s fine, I’m nearing a set of Ascended and will be in okay shape for my one specific build, but with no one trying new builds or gear combos the future of grouping in this game looks pretty bleak and from WvW to small events in stater zones, everything you do will be in preparation for whatever exclusive piece of content is going to require Ascended gear, whether or not you plan to make any.
If I follow the ascended defender argument, it use to be that you don’t need it so the grind is ok. Now that it’s buffered enough to be more necessary, the argument is that you already have it.
News flash, I don’t have it because you said I didn’t need it.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
only matters if you are a min/max-er. its a nice bonus for those who have ascended (i use the weapons and trinkets….but refuse to waste the money on armor) but in no way makes ascended a must have.
that extra 5% on ascended isn’t going to make or break anything in wvw that skillful play can’t overcome….just like now.
the fact is, they haven’t added a new teir……gear treadmill is hated because you have to constantly reach for new better gear, as your current “best” becomes obsolete……your top gear just got a little better….it didn’t get replaced. so i don’t get the fuss.
if they continue the trend of strengthening ascended vs. exotic, then yes, ascended will become mandatory in wvw…..but its still not the same as a gear treadmill.
Chaos Organ (Ele), Pistol Opera (Thief), Modular Man (Eng)
MARA (EU) Gunnar’s Hold
If I follow the ascended defender argument it use to be that you don’t need it so the grind is ok. Now that it’s buffered enough to be more necessary, the argument is that you already have it.
News flash, I don’t have it because you said I didn’t need it.
Exactly the place I find myself as I try to come back after taking a break for a while.
“The short answer is that new content is not going to drive people away from the game.
There is absolutely no evidence to support that it would.” -AnthonyOrdon
#1. Content is balanced around Exotic.
#2. No new tier is being added.
#3. WvW is not, and has never been advertised as, balanced content.
These items combined negate most of the incoming anger.
You were supposed to be working towards Ascended as a long term goal. You are now supposed to be working towards Ascended as a long term goal. There has been no change.
Ok. Where is the point where ascended gear breaks anything?
Not 5%, not 10%… is 50% ok?
The thing is ANY numerical advantage makes a difference at the margins. There will always be someone that you could beat on an equal footing but you lose because they have a stats advantage.
There will always be someone that could beat you on an equal footing, but you win because of a stats advantage.
Stat advantages in PvP suck.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
If they change this at least make Ascended gear buyable on TP. I hate crafting…
Make it buyable, available by spending tons of dungeon tokens, badges of honor, fractal relics or laurels, end a reward tier in Spvp, achievement points or any other method that is not crazy RNG drops or crafting.
This game has so many “play as you want” systems in place yet ascended gear is locked away behind crafting and I know I’m not the only person who hates it enough to never bother with it.
If I follow the ascended defender argument, it use to be that you don’t need it so the grind is ok. Now that it’s buffered enough to be more necessary, the argument is that you already have it.
News flash, I don’t have it because you said I didn’t need it.
And you still don’t really need it.
A 10% increase of stats does not equal a 10% difference in damage output.
IIRC it was something like a 2%-4% icrease in damage output, which isn’t much at all.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
Make it purchasable in the TP, I flat out refuse to level crafting. Or gimme a dwarf, Lineage II style.
And with the random Ascended drops, selecting the weapon doesnt help if you get stats you dont need for your main, or do I have to switch main and alt’s position? So, let me ask what’s the use? You don’t need it, and you can’t sell it…so it accumulates dust in the bank.
Make it purchasable in the TP, I flat out refuse to level crafting. Or gimme a dwarf, Lineage II style.
And with the random Ascended drops, selecting the weapon doesnt help if you get stats you dont need for your main, or do I have to switch main and alt’s position? So, let me ask what’s the use? You don’t need it, and you can’t sell it…so it accumulates dust in the bank.
I’ve played this game since launch and have never had an non-accessory ascended piece drop. I would be happy if I got some random stat I didn’t use just so that I know I’m not cursed.
Ok. Where is the point where ascended gear breaks anything?
Not 5%, not 10%… is 50% ok?
honestly….probably closer to 50% than 10%.
a huge chunk of your stats are on trinkets/backpieces…..these are very easy to acquire (moreso than exotic to be honest)….almost everyone has these already.
weapons are easy to make, but do cost a bit…..make a few weapons to share among alts (GS/Staff/LB/sword/focus)
its really only the armor that drains your money/resources/time…..and armor is the least important to upgrade over exotic considering the low stat numbers.
so practically speaking, the % diff between ascended and exotic, in order for it to matter, would have to be pretty high.
Chaos Organ (Ele), Pistol Opera (Thief), Modular Man (Eng)
MARA (EU) Gunnar’s Hold
It’s taking off now, but it’s gone through these cycles before. For the entire Fall of 2014 the cost was higher than it is now by almost 50s. When the changes come in and the markets cool down it may eventually settle out or even drop down again. More people will be farming the new area salvaging gear and the markets may even see an overabundance of materials until maybe a few months after release when people want to keep crafting again.
The solution is simple, make ascended gear have the same drop rate as exotics from the same sources exotics drop from currently.
Solves the WvW issue, the new player barrier, and you will be able to more easily mix in stats to your current ascended gear you lost from trait lines. Plus, if you hate crafting, your issues are solved as well!
Ok. Where is the point where ascended gear breaks anything?
Not 5%, not 10%… is 50% ok?
honestly….probably closer to 50% than 10%.
a huge chunk of your stats are on trinkets/backpieces…..these are very easy to acquire (moreso than exotic to be honest)….almost everyone has these already.
weapons are easy to make, but do cost a bit…..make a few weapons to share among alts (GS/Staff/LB/sword/focus)
its really only the armor that drains your money/resources/time…..and armor is the least important to upgrade over exotic considering the low stat numbers.
so practically speaking, the % diff between ascended and exotic, in order for it to matter, would have to be pretty high.
This is exactly it. Why bother making Ascended armor at all if it’s hardly any better? It doesn’t need to be crazy good or even required, but it should be decent enough for you to want to spend all the time and resources it does take to make the stuff. You will likely still be able to complete even the most difficult content with full exotics if you’re a good player, and you will likely still not be able to complete that same content in full ascended if you’re a poor player.
If you’re worried about ascended getting more powerful, that was actually the original design. If you look back to the AMA at the time, they hinted that they would use existing tiers and infusions to increase your power. When they added infusions with stats, that was just the beginning. Nothing’s stopping them from going all the way and releasing ascended tier runes, sigils and infusions, then new tiers in expansions. They haven’t touched on that since then however.
The solution is simple, make ascended gear have the same drop rate as exotics from the same sources exotics drop from currently.
Solves the WvW issue, the new player barrier, and you will be able to more easily mix in stats to your current ascended gear you lost from trait lines. Plus, if you hate crafting, your issues are solved as well!
Win, win, and a ………………….WIN!
That works.
If they were smart they would have a variety of ways to get the gear that promotes group play such as Spvp, dungeons/fractals and WvW. Right now the only way to get the gear is to go loner/farming train to get gold/mats and then go off to a crafting table and level up that which seems to get most people nice and burned out so that by time they get the gear they are ready for a month long break from the game.
Make it purchasable in the TP, I flat out refuse to level crafting. Or gimme a dwarf, Lineage II style.
And with the random Ascended drops, selecting the weapon doesnt help if you get stats you dont need for your main, or do I have to switch main and alt’s position? So, let me ask what’s the use? You don’t need it, and you can’t sell it…so it accumulates dust in the bank.
I’ve played this game since launch and have never had an non-accessory ascended piece drop. I would be happy if I got some random stat I didn’t use just so that I know I’m not cursed.
It’s kind of my point. You could easily buy, what other people have no use for.
Instead of the…Yay it’s ascended…but useless.
Ok. Where is the point where ascended gear breaks anything?
Not 5%, not 10%… is 50% ok?
honestly….probably closer to 50% than 10%.
a huge chunk of your stats are on trinkets/backpieces…..these are very easy to acquire (moreso than exotic to be honest)….almost everyone has these already.
weapons are easy to make, but do cost a bit…..make a few weapons to share among alts (GS/Staff/LB/sword/focus)
its really only the armor that drains your money/resources/time…..and armor is the least important to upgrade over exotic considering the low stat numbers.
so practically speaking, the % diff between ascended and exotic, in order for it to matter, would have to be pretty high.
This is exactly it. Why bother making Ascended armor at all if it’s hardly any better? It doesn’t need to be crazy good or even required, but it should be decent enough for you to want to spend all the time and resources it does take to make the stuff. You will likely still be able to complete even the most difficult content with full exotics if you’re a good player, and you will likely still not be able to complete that same content in full ascended if you’re a poor player.
its there for min/maxers, “carrot chasers”, and high level fractals (the only thing its actually needed for). i’m glad its there…even if it isn’t needed for most content. having the option to mix and match exotic and ascended to get a desired stat spread is nice.
considering how many choices are being taken away from every other aspect of this game….i’d hate for us to get the PvP gear treatment of less stat tweaking.
Chaos Organ (Ele), Pistol Opera (Thief), Modular Man (Eng)
MARA (EU) Gunnar’s Hold
