Guild Wars 2

“I really wanted to make the Abaddon fractal..” So why would you guys tie such an amazing idea for a dungeon to something so stupid as player votes? Will we ever see or hear about what this fractal would have been like?

Especially to a vote between “human female with reduced prices on waypoints” vs “male charr with reduced price on stupid RNG keys nobody cares about”

They make the game. I don’t see why they can’t just make the abbadon fractal at a later time after the thaumanova one.

nearlight.3064:

They make the game. I don’t see why they can’t just make the abbadon fractal at a later time after the thaumanova one.

Because they already confirmed they will not make both.

stof.9341:

Especially to a vote between “human female with reduced prices on waypoints” vs “male charr with reduced price on stupid RNG keys nobody cares about”

Exactly I have no idea why this even got the green light.

silvermember.8941:

Omega.4950:

silvermember.8941:

He is a rich jerk that loves RNG and supposedly he is Canadian (just sayin).

That is exactly why the human won. Clowns attached him to Cox or whomever that person’s name is that likes lockboxes.

slow down there, I voted for Kiel because she represents my interest. more importantly, I voted for Kiel because I knew a lot of Gw1 fanboys ( I did play gw1 off and on for 7 years but I don’t consider myself a fanboy) would get really mad if Evon won. Also I always thought Abaddon was a bad villain.

Abaddon was so bad, he made Shiro seem intelligent but the worst part is that he let Kormir outsmart him.

So you picked failed Asuran Experiment #431 fractal

Vorch.2985:

silvermember.8941:

Omega.4950:

silvermember.8941:

He is a rich jerk that loves RNG and supposedly he is Canadian (just sayin).

That is exactly why the human won. Clowns attached him to Cox or whomever that person’s name is that likes lockboxes.

slow down there, I voted for Kiel because she represents my interest. more importantly, I voted for Kiel because I knew a lot of Gw1 fanboys ( I did play gw1 off and on for 7 years but I don’t consider myself a fanboy) would get really mad if Evon won. Also I always thought Abaddon was a bad villain.

Abaddon was so bad, he made Shiro seem intelligent but the worst part is that he let Kormir outsmart him.

So you picked failed Asuran Experiment #431 fractal

I picked the one that was more interesting. I fought Abaddon once and he wasn’t that interesting (except when everyone danced), I don’t need to fight him again.

Anyways, welcome to Gw2.

silvermember.8941:

Vorch.2985:

silvermember.8941:

Omega.4950:

silvermember.8941:

He is a rich jerk that loves RNG and supposedly he is Canadian (just sayin).

That is exactly why the human won. Clowns attached him to Cox or whomever that person’s name is that likes lockboxes.

slow down there, I voted for Kiel because she represents my interest. more importantly, I voted for Kiel because I knew a lot of Gw1 fanboys ( I did play gw1 off and on for 7 years but I don’t consider myself a fanboy) would get really mad if Evon won. Also I always thought Abaddon was a bad villain.

Abaddon was so bad, he made Shiro seem intelligent but the worst part is that he let Kormir outsmart him.

So you picked failed Asuran Experiment #431 fractal

I picked the one that was more interesting. I fought Abaddon once and he wasn’t that interesting (except when everyone danced), I don’t need to fight him again.

Anyways, welcome to Gw2.

There’s nothing interesting in Asuras blowing up yet another invention. ITs status quo for them.

Also, there was no claim about fighting Abaddon.

TehPwnerer.7215:

Developer quote from Livestream

“I really wanted to make the Abaddon fractal..” So why would you guys tie such an amazing idea for a dungeon to something so stupid as player votes? Will we ever see or hear about what this fractal would have been like?

Developer quote from the forum:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

To shed some light on my bias, our team brainstormed up a bunch of fractals for you guys to pick from and then we settled on the best two. I got pretty excited about Thaumanova, given what we intend for it to entail so I’m Kiel supporter all the way.

So, original poster, were you trying to making a point in particular, or just sore about the results? The devs were as divided on this as the players.

FYI, this isn’t the NF Abbadon. this is the abbadon that opposed the other 5 gods that we forgo

i put my 500+ tickets into kiel’s basket, i don’t support rng.

It all depends on your point of view.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/cutthroat/IMO-ArenaNet-favors-Evon-Unfair/first#post2473277

I also voted against RNG. If the developers had wanted the cooler content developed, they should have put it on the anti-RNG ticket.

gurugeorge.9857:

I also voted against RNG. If the developers had wanted the cooler content developed, they should have put it on the anti-RNG ticket.

No, you didn’t. If you legitimately think your vote against Evon made any difference on the RNG front, you are seriously over-inflating the value of your decision and the impact it will have.

Auesis.7301:

gurugeorge.9857:

I also voted against RNG. If the developers had wanted the cooler content developed, they should have put it on the anti-RNG ticket.

No, you didn’t. If you legitimately think your vote against Evon made any difference on the RNG front, you are seriously over-inflating the value of your decision and the impact it will have.

I think you’re being a bit naive. RNG boxes are a big thing in f2p MMOs, and some developers rely on them a lot. It seems to me that (apart from the many other reasons for having the event, most of them cool) there was a bit of a trial balloon being floated by the devs. They wanted to gauge the playerbase’s interest in the lockboxes, and thereby to see whether going further in the RNG direction would be acceptable to the players. The playerbase has sent a resounding NO WE ARE NOT ALL THAT INTERESTED IN LOCKBOXES message.

Even when the deal was sweetened by what would have been, lore-wise, a much more interesting Fractal, still the answer was NO.

Hopefully the message is clear and Anet wont flirt any more with RNG than they are doing already. It’s ok that lockboxes are in the game, some people like to gamble and that’s fine; but if they were to have more of a presence than they do (like for instance they do in the Cryptic f2p games), it would degrade the GW2 experience.

Auesis.7301:

gurugeorge.9857:

I also voted against RNG. If the developers had wanted the cooler content developed, they should have put it on the anti-RNG ticket.

No, you didn’t. If you legitimately think your vote against Evon made any difference on the RNG front, you are seriously over-inflating the value of your decision and the impact it will have.

If your voice is small, should you not speak?

Fractals should be about good coordinated teamplay, not story. There is enough content where story is in the foreground. In fractals, story should take a step back and make way for dungeon mechanics.

nearlight.3064:

They make the game. I don’t see why they can’t just make the abbadon fractal at a later time after the thaumanova one.

They will. Im betting my miniscule paycheck on it.

i’m really surprised so many people support this voting-on-features system. they pick 2 good ideas and then make sure that 1 of them will never come to fruition? that’s a great system… thanks for making the best possible game for your players.

milo.6942:

i’m really surprised so many people support this voting-on-features system. they pick 2 good ideas and then make sure that 1 of them will never come to fruition? that’s a great system… thanks for making the best possible game for your players.

People have been whinging about not being able to “make a difference” in virtual worlds for ages. Now we the players were given a choice with real consequences (choose one thing, forego the other), and you think this is a problem?

gurugeorge.9857:

Auesis.7301:

gurugeorge.9857:

I also voted against RNG. If the developers had wanted the cooler content developed, they should have put it on the anti-RNG ticket.

No, you didn’t. If you legitimately think your vote against Evon made any difference on the RNG front, you are seriously over-inflating the value of your decision and the impact it will have.

I think you’re being a bit naive. RNG boxes are a big thing in f2p MMOs, and some developers rely on them a lot. It seems to me that (apart from the many other reasons for having the event, most of them cool) there was a bit of a trial balloon being floated by the devs. They wanted to gauge the playerbase’s interest in the lockboxes, and thereby to see whether going further in the RNG direction would be acceptable to the players. The playerbase has sent a resounding NO WE ARE NOT ALL THAT INTERESTED IN LOCKBOXES message.

Even when the deal was sweetened by what would have been, lore-wise, a much more interesting Fractal, still the answer was NO.

Hopefully the message is clear and Anet wont flirt any more with RNG than they are doing already. It’s ok that lockboxes are in the game, some people like to gamble and that’s fine; but if they were to have more of a presence than they do (like for instance they do in the Cryptic f2p games), it would degrade the GW2 experience.

Your message was not resounding. The vote was almost 50/50 split.

When next month or the month after that rolls around and more RNG boxes are put in place, using the BL Tickets that have literally only just been implemented for this very purpose, I won’t even bother to entertain the inevitable salty tears from people who feel “betrayed” or something ridiculous like that.

the entire voting was in favor of the good GIRL compare the bad charr and small kids whit no lore info just voting her

…and if the fractal choices had been swapped, evon would have lost 10-90 instead of 48-52, and his supporters would have declared it a rigged and unfair election

gurugeorge.9857:

milo.6942:

i’m really surprised so many people support this voting-on-features system. they pick 2 good ideas and then make sure that 1 of them will never come to fruition? that’s a great system… thanks for making the best possible game for your players.

People have been whinging about not being able to “make a difference” in virtual worlds for ages. Now we the players were given a choice with real consequences (choose one thing, forego the other), and you think this is a problem?

is that not what he said?

gurugeorge.9857:

The playerbase has sent a resounding NO WE ARE NOT ALL THAT INTERESTED IN LOCKBOXES message.

Voting for Kiel did not send such a message. Not buying RNG boxes would, but it seems they are still very popular, no matter how ridiculous the odds.
Honestly i don’t understand why people would buy those, but the sad truth is that they do. And as long as they do, no amount of Kiel voting is going to change that. Especially since it’s not Evon that is selling them to players, as Evon is a fictional character. And because the voting was never about RNG boxes at all (it was only a tiny minority that latched to that interpretation), but – as presented by Anet – about choosing between a good human girl and a bad and unsympathetic charr.

insanemaniac.2456:

…and if the fractal choices had been swapped, evon would have lost 10-90 instead of 48-52, and his supporters would have declared it a rigged and unfair election

Well, the candidates weren’t presented equally, so yes, the election was not exactly fair. And i bet most of the voters didn’t care about fractals at all.

UrMom.4205:

i put my 500+ tickets into kiel’s basket, i don’t support rng.

You do realise anet still controls the game? It’s not like voting for kiel changes any of that

UrMom.4205:

i put my 500+ tickets into kiel’s basket, i don’t support rng.

gurugeorge.9857:

I also voted against RNG. If the developers had wanted the cooler content developed, they should have put it on the anti-RNG ticket.

you two realize how insanely fallacious that logic is, right?

pullnointer.1476:

gurugeorge.9857:

milo.6942:

i’m really surprised so many people support this voting-on-features system. they pick 2 good ideas and then make sure that 1 of them will never come to fruition? that’s a great system… thanks for making the best possible game for your players.

People have been whinging about not being able to “make a difference” in virtual worlds for ages. Now we the players were given a choice with real consequences (choose one thing, forego the other), and you think this is a problem?

is that not what he said?

I thought he was being sarcastic.

gurugeorge.9857:

pullnointer.1476:

gurugeorge.9857:

milo.6942:

i’m really surprised so many people support this voting-on-features system. they pick 2 good ideas and then make sure that 1 of them will never come to fruition? that’s a great system… thanks for making the best possible game for your players.

People have been whinging about not being able to “make a difference” in virtual worlds for ages. Now we the players were given a choice with real consequences (choose one thing, forego the other), and you think this is a problem?

is that not what he said?

I thought he was being sarcastic.

his post does contain sarcasm. this is relevant in what way exactly?

pullnointer.1476:

UrMom.4205:

i put my 500+ tickets into kiel’s basket, i don’t support rng.

gurugeorge.9857:

I also voted against RNG. If the developers had wanted the cooler content developed, they should have put it on the anti-RNG ticket.

you two realize how insanely fallacious that logic is, right?

If developers were (among other things obviously, including making something cool), testing the waters as to public opinion about RNG by having one ticket’s main discount being pro-RNG, and if they believed the pro-RNG choice would carry the day, then it would be natural for them to attach to that choice the cooler content that they wanted to make. As it turns out, the pro-RNG choice didn’t carry the day, even with the cooler content to sweeten it. They ought to have realized that RNG isn’t as popular as they think, and they ought to have attached the cooler content that they wanted to make, to the anti-RNG choice.

pullnointer.1476:

gurugeorge.9857:

pullnointer.1476:

gurugeorge.9857:

milo.6942:

i’m really surprised so many people support this voting-on-features system. they pick 2 good ideas and then make sure that 1 of them will never come to fruition? that’s a great system… thanks for making the best possible game for your players.

People have been whinging about not being able to “make a difference” in virtual worlds for ages. Now we the players were given a choice with real consequences (choose one thing, forego the other), and you think this is a problem?

is that not what he said?

I thought he was being sarcastic.

his post does contain sarcasm. this is relevant in what way exactly?

He doesn’t like it that one of the choices is now gone, I am pointing out that such “real” choice by players in terms of making permanent changes in the game world has been part of the design goals for MMOs since forever, and (implicitly) that he ought to consider looking at it from a different angle, and more positively, as a development which successfully realizes (in its own way) a long-desired feature for MMOs.

I have to make a couple of points here.

1) RNG gambling is much more popular in the east. Even if NA and EU players never ever bought them, there’s still a couple cultures that are very into them. I’m not saying that’s or good or bad, just that it is.

2) Even though I think we’re inflating ANet’s interest in using this as a referendum on RNG, there’s one theory I haven’t seen floated anywhere. What if they interpret our lack of voting RNG prices down as being fine with the prices the way they are? Spun another way, GW2 players value their in-game currency more than real dollars, relative to in-game purchases.

Who knows what ANet/NCSoft are going to do with this data? As close as the race came out, they probably shouldn’t take it as much of anything dramatic.

what klawlyt said.

gurugeorge.9857:

pullnointer.1476:

UrMom.4205:

i put my 500+ tickets into kiel’s basket, i don’t support rng.

gurugeorge.9857:

I also voted against RNG. If the developers had wanted the cooler content developed, they should have put it on the anti-RNG ticket.

you two realize how insanely fallacious that logic is, right?

If developers were (among other things obviously, including making something cool), testing the waters as to public opinion about RNG by having one ticket’s main discount being pro-RNG, and if they believed the pro-RNG choice would carry the day, then it would be natural for them to attach to that choice the cooler content that they wanted to make. As it turns out, the pro-RNG choice didn’t carry the day, even with the cooler content to sweeten it. They ought to have realized that RNG isn’t as popular as they think, and they ought to have attached the cooler content that they wanted to make, to the anti-RNG choice.

yes, that’s how it works

xD

gurugeorge.9857:

He doesn’t like it that one of the choices is now gone, I am pointing out that such “real” choice by players in terms of making permanent changes in the game world has been part of the design goals for MMOs since forever, and (implicitly) that he ought to consider looking at it from a different angle, and more positively, as a development which successfully realizes (in its own way) a long-desired feature for MMOs.

long desired by whom exactly? are you suggesting an argumentum ad populum?

gurugeorge.9857:

If developers were (among other things obviously, including making something cool), testing the waters as to public opinion about RNG by having one ticket’s main discount being pro-RNG, and if they believed the pro-RNG choice would carry the day, then it would be natural for them to attach to that choice the cooler content that they wanted to make.

That’s one kittenuption there – “If”. It’s some of the players that assigned Pro-RNG relevance to Evon, not Anet. And really, just some of the players – for most of the crowd that never visits this forum this would likely have no relevance at all.
Anet tests the waters by putting RNG boxes in the store, and looking at the sales values. If they sell well, then the experiment was a success. And unfortunately it seems they do sell well.

Could have had the vote for FotM happen after Cutthroat Politics.
A scene in Mistlock where Kiel enters and talks to Dessa about future research. The conversation eventually leads to Dessa’s decision that the ‘volunteers’ should have a vote. And then you are given a chance to vote.

Thing that was stupid about voting was, you could vote as many times as you wanted, as long as you had the time and the money… To me, that doesn’t truly depict a favorite… It could have been 1 person who voted for Kiel 1,000,000 times and the Evon voters only voted once or twice because they assumed everyone else was voting for him anyways. Players should have been given 1 vote per account…

I can’t judge either fractal before they are even released, but how much gw2 asura lab content do we need? Don’t give me the excuse that GW1 content is old and we should stick with new stuff, its content from GW1 that we didn’t experience or see… There was already a ton of content in the Asuran area regarding the inquest so how is THAT not “Old news”. Unless you are really addicted to the story of the inquest I don’t see why you would vote for Kiel based on that…

Waypoint costs vs Black lion key price drop is a debate that could go either way, for me, waypoint cost reduction is useless, its a few extra copper or silver, how often do i travel that i need to reduce the price of the already low price to WP? Black lion chests now give A LOT of RNG skins that people LOVE, and with each new patch, more skins are released, some of which can only be obtained through the chests. I don’t agree with RNG, but if Anet only makes these skins available in that way, why not take the reduced key price.

TehPwnerer.7215:

“I really wanted to make the Abaddon fractal..” So why would you guys tie such an amazing idea for a dungeon to something so stupid as player votes? Will we ever see or hear about what this fractal would have been like?

This.

I could understand the vote deciding which takes precedence, which will be worked and completed first as higher priority, but to deny good content based on something like this is a very bad idea, IMO.

pullnointer.1476:

long desired by whom exactly? are you suggesting an argumentum ad populum?

Since I wasn’t making an argument, but an observation, there can be no fallacy in what I said.

MMOs and their precursors have a long history, if you check out that history, I think you will see that the idea of players “making a difference” to the virtual world they play in has always been a desideratum from both players’ and developers’ perspectives (obviously not for everyone, and not all the time, but it’s been an idea that crops up often, in forums, in developers’ ruminations, etc.).

Trouble is, it’s hard to implement, especially in virtual worlds, which are always subject to the possibility of exploitation and griefing (i.e. developers have to guard against those possibilities).

Having something resembling an election in which players have actually collectively decided what content they’re going to experience, and have made a choice with a cost (i.e. permanent loss of one option), is one way of having players “make a difference” to the virtual world that they’re going to play in, and quite an innovative way too.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Your tin foil hats need tuning because I’m hoping for Kiel. But I have a vested interest because my team will probably be working on the fractals. I had nothing to do with this content though.

The Cutthroat Politics team tried to make it as even as possible.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

To shed some light on my bias, our team brainstormed up a bunch of fractals for you guys to pick from and then we settled on the best two. I got pretty excited about Thaumanova, given what we intend for it to entail so I’m Kiel supporter all the way.

Abbadon will also be great if Evon wins though.

Sounds like they did a good job of making it as even as possible, also sounds like the devs were as split as we were.

pullnointer.1476:

UrMom.4205:

i put my 500+ tickets into kiel’s basket, i don’t support rng.

gurugeorge.9857:

I also voted against RNG. If the developers had wanted the cooler content developed, they should have put it on the anti-RNG ticket.

you two realize how insanely fallacious that logic is, right?

Sending a message or not…

I use waypoints
I don’t waste my money on keys
I don’t care about fractals

So I voted for cheaper waypoints, even if it’s just temporary.

But even if it was something that I don’t bother with instead of waypoints, I still wouldn’t have voted the other way. I will not support rng.

I’ve talk to quite a few people who’s decision was heavily influenced by the cheaper keys. Both fore and against. So I don’t think it’s fallacious at all.