Guild Wars 2

guys, ok, so I have been snooping around all of the parts of our forums, and almost every thread I see goes about sidetracking into the typical sense:

Devs! You are a failure!

This is almost too stupid of a thing for me to comprehend. I am guessing those of you who stay in GW2 even after saying those things like something about the game right? Then act like you are appreciative and nothing more. If you think about the entire forums as a giant home where we are relatives of each other, it is almost like half of us are kindergardeners, while the next 25% of us are actually appreciative people, and the next 25% are just major trolls. So here’s what I am saying. It seems more and more like Gw2 is going to become a chaotic place in the future for the forums. The forums are where we get in contact with each other the easiest, and where brilliant ideas can be used.

I feel like this forum will actually get dirty if it continues to become a topic place of arguing against the devs.

@Players. If you are going to argue, do talk in a mannered voice, and give strong but calm reasons to back yourselves up. And don’t start a rant about something which can be addressed calmly.

@Devs. If you do something that might anger or confuse the players, give us a reason of why you did it. It doesn’t take much to start a thread and tell us what’s going on on the other side in terms of trying to manage the forums. If there is a policy at the other side which limits your contact with us as players by 80% or more, then that is no game. It’s just downright sad to see in the nicest way possible.

So my proposal. Maybe we should really have a chat get together maybe every month to see how we are doing on things, and what each of us(players and devs) have to propose to the community. Of course, this does not mean you devs have to come to this sort of chat with the nervous mind of being forced to share developments secrets. It just could be a way to talk to each other friendly. That, in my own opinion, is the path to success and happiness for both sides. I am being dead serious on this matter.

Maybe something like the CDI threads?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Maybe something like the CDI threads?

I feel like CDI progress way too slow i mean it has been 2 months and we are only on the third thread that has the second topic. im not even going to talk about the other CDI in the other threads. The OP here is very very correct

I disagree with you OP while I do think some people come off a bit vicious lets get one thing clear.

Arena.net is not my friend they are not my family. They are a company I pay to provide me a service. I do not feel like that service is being rendered I will complain about it.

Why all of a sudden people think company’s are there friends or family is beyond me. Company’s could seriously careless about you or me. In fact the only thing they care about is $$….

Given some of the people that work for company’s are pretty cool… Looking at you Gaile Gray. That still does not make them friends or family.

Here is another stunner companies don’t care about there employees much anymore either. I guess some mangers do and some HR departments but that board of directors could seriously care less about Joe Smoe in accounting.

This goes both ways. While these forums do contain some rather… colourful… trolls, I could say the same negativity is displayed by Anet’s community team (some parts, some like Gaile are awesome), particularly the black profile moderators. Having community leads make threads ending with ‘you have been warned’ (stealth edited later after communities expected response) or some of the other comments that have been expressed over the last year are not the most appropriate ways to interact with your customer base. If a retail store had it’s employees treat their customers the way parts of the community team do, they would suffer for it.

A friend of mine was banned from the forums for calling his Korean community friends ‘Korean’. Later attempts to discuss with the community team and explain the context and appropriate nature of the rational discussion that lacked racial tension, was conveniently ignored.

Respect goes two ways. If a business wants respect from their customers they should earn it, not expect it. If people are deliberate trolls or causing trouble they should be banned, but that is no grounds for the way these forums are upheld – often leading to more problems caused by angry customers.

I wish people would just speak normally, clearly and politely, you might not get a dev response but they will definitely read it, what a waste of a post its painful to read, I hope this toxic thread gets closed

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

guys, ok, so I have been snooping around all of the parts of our forums, and almost every thread I see goes about sidetracking into the typical sense:

Devs! You are a failure!

This is almost too stupid of a thing for me to comprehend. I am guessing those of you who stay in GW2 even after saying those things like something about the game right? Then act like you are appreciative and nothing more. If you think about the entire forums as a giant home where we are relatives of each other, it is almost like half of us are kindergardeners, while the next 25% of us are actually appreciative people, and the next 25% are just major trolls. So here’s what I am saying. It seems more and more like Gw2 is going to become a chaotic place in the future for the forums. The forums are where we get in contact with each other the easiest, and where brilliant ideas can be used.

I feel like this forum will actually get dirty if it continues to become a topic place of arguing against the devs.

@Players. If you are going to argue, do talk in a mannered voice, and give strong but calm reasons to back yourselves up. And don’t start a rant about something which can be addressed calmly.

@Devs. If you do something that might anger or confuse the players, give us a reason of why you did it. It doesn’t take much to start a thread and tell us what’s going on on the other side in terms of trying to manage the forums. If there is a policy at the other side which limits your contact with us as players by 80% or more, then that is no game. It’s just downright sad to see in the nicest way possible.

So my proposal. Maybe we should really have a chat get together maybe every month to see how we are doing on things, and what each of us(players and devs) have to propose to the community. Of course, this does not mean you devs have to come to this sort of chat with the nervous mind of being forced to share developments secrets. It just could be a way to talk to each other friendly. That, in my own opinion, is the path to success and happiness for both sides. I am being dead serious on this matter.

much of the negativity and frustration would be alleviated if there were an open test server. also, if players saw more development to other core areas besides the gold sinks and gem sales systems, this would be a nicer place and game.

This sort of thing goes on all over the internet, in fact it’s a lot older than the internet itself. If we could translate the ancient cave paintings left behind by prehistoric man, a common theme among them would be something like “Ug doesn’t know kitten about making spears! I traded two good skins for one of Ug’s spears, and it broke on my first hunt. Don’t buy any spears from Ug!”

The situation has reached the state where if anything sounds like an attack on the dev’s effort (but it’s ok for them to diminish player’s efforts) then they’ll have a knee jerk reaction and just ignore whatever you post forever. So don’t worry, they do ignore the negative people!

Eg:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Guhracie.3419:

Nike.2631:

Guhracie.3419:

1. We didn’t want another tier of gear; you guys knew that and implemented it anyway, so now we’re stuck with it.

Players rarely ever want their pet class nerfed, but its still necessary to the health of the game to do it from time to time. Consensus and Balance are distantly related on the best days and full-blown adversaries on more than a few.

While I have some issues with the specifics of Ascended acquisition, it’s not that hard to recognize the pressures at work that convinced them that the concept needed to be introduced to the game.

Keep in mind that prior to the release of the first Ascended items, the single most efficient way to advance your character was play the Trading Post. Full Stop. If you spent your time doing DEs or running dungeons you were a serf laboring in the fields in the service of your Trading Post betters. It was soul-sucking. Nothing you could do swinging your sword came close, and even today most people have this obsession with amassing gold when doing so mostly fattens you up to get fleeced at the market. The range of rewards that must be earned rather than bought is still astonishingly thin.

If anything the current crafting-only model of weapons and armor is a bit of a backslide towards ‘TP-uber-alles’. I sincerely hope that the currencies of heroism like skill points, karma, and various tokens get moved back to center stage as the means and the measure of characters’ mechanical advancement ~ vertical or horizontal.

I really just set out to summarize the thread to see if anything new was actually being said about vertical progression, or if we were just going in circles, this far into the discussion about it. And, truly, without more meaningful feedback than “Interesting ideas” there’s not much more that we can do with the discussion, in my opinion. Regardless, that was basically the first sort of comment that was picked up and addressed in the thread.

I’m in total agreement about consensus vs. balance, but I think it’s clear that balance isn’t being discussed here, on many levels.

I’m all for progress, and there’s truly no way to please everyone, but given the possibilities for vertical progression in a game like GW2, it seems like a middle ground other than “gear treadmill” might have been a more viable solution.

Hi Guhracie,

Will all due respect there has been a huge amount of dialog, discussion, ideation, summary and proposals. If you want to add value to the thread then I suggest you read it. Until then I am going to take everything you say with a large handful of salt. Sorry.

Chris

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Devs! You are a failure!

They are not a failure….

I instead strongly question their ethic…..

They are exactly like Electronic Art…they are making moneys….so they are a success.

Read at the thread about CDI vertical progression….there is some Genius when they say:

We won t add further tier of equipment that will make obsolete the current equipment…..(expecially looking at 7/6 stats infusion in dev livestream….).

P.S: we don t make grindy games…
4 months to get the armors i had before and play the same content i played before without those….or 998 gold…..clearly not grinding….at least other companies don t put gear gating on old content.

….. from my point of view is just they think dev don’t listen to players. sure people can talk normally everywhere. but for most people they post more than once and wait a bit, and after the wait what do they get….. That’s why a lot of people trolling in forums… Although there are some people that troll because it’s their hobby ^^.

And some people like me just wait and see where’s anet going to bring this game to.

myabe CDI will work much faster if eq: some people which have highest achievement, some people with highest rank in wvw and some people with highest rank from spvp could help in giving notes to dev. about job balance, pve, and wvw.

angelpaladin.7921:

I disagree with you OP while I do think some people come off a bit vicious lets get one thing clear.

Arena.net is not my friend they are not my family. They are a company I pay to provide me a service. I do not feel like that service is being rendered I will complain about it.

Why all of a sudden people think company’s are there friends or family is beyond me. Company’s could seriously careless about you or me. In fact the only thing they care about is $$….

So you’re only polite and considerate to your friends and family? How do you make any friends with that attitude? You can complain about a product and still be civil. A little bit of consideration costs you nothing, and in my experience, gains you a lot. More flies with honey and all that.

My company regularly distributes customer feedback, positive and negative, to all of us (even my team working deep in the bowels of the infrastructure that the clients don’t even know exist) I have never seen any of the negative comments contain statements calling the folks in the company stupid, incompetent, greedy, etc. Folks don’t hear your concerns when you talk that way. They don’t share and discuss your feedback because it’s buried underneath a childish temper tantrum.

If you’re really interested in getting something changed, it is in your best interest to at least pretend that you believe that the person on the other end of the conversation cares that you’re unhappy and wants to fix it.

^ What? So they filter the negative feedback? That seems…backwards.

I guess I’m missing all these threads. Yea I have seen a few take swipes at the devs, but nothing in any of the threads I read has been really bad.

BlueZone.4236:

The situation has reached the state where if anything sounds like an attack on the dev’s effort (but it’s ok for them to diminish player’s efforts) then they’ll have a knee jerk reaction and just ignore whatever you post forever. So don’t worry, they do ignore the negative people!

Eg:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Guhracie.3419:

Nike.2631:

Guhracie.3419:

1. We didn’t want another tier of gear; you guys knew that and implemented it anyway, so now we’re stuck with it.

Players rarely ever want their pet class nerfed, but its still necessary to the health of the game to do it from time to time. Consensus and Balance are distantly related on the best days and full-blown adversaries on more than a few.

While I have some issues with the specifics of Ascended acquisition, it’s not that hard to recognize the pressures at work that convinced them that the concept needed to be introduced to the game.

Keep in mind that prior to the release of the first Ascended items, the single most efficient way to advance your character was play the Trading Post. Full Stop. If you spent your time doing DEs or running dungeons you were a serf laboring in the fields in the service of your Trading Post betters. It was soul-sucking. Nothing you could do swinging your sword came close, and even today most people have this obsession with amassing gold when doing so mostly fattens you up to get fleeced at the market. The range of rewards that must be earned rather than bought is still astonishingly thin.

If anything the current crafting-only model of weapons and armor is a bit of a backslide towards ‘TP-uber-alles’. I sincerely hope that the currencies of heroism like skill points, karma, and various tokens get moved back to center stage as the means and the measure of characters’ mechanical advancement ~ vertical or horizontal.

I really just set out to summarize the thread to see if anything new was actually being said about vertical progression, or if we were just going in circles, this far into the discussion about it. And, truly, without more meaningful feedback than “Interesting ideas” there’s not much more that we can do with the discussion, in my opinion. Regardless, that was basically the first sort of comment that was picked up and addressed in the thread.

I’m in total agreement about consensus vs. balance, but I think it’s clear that balance isn’t being discussed here, on many levels.

I’m all for progress, and there’s truly no way to please everyone, but given the possibilities for vertical progression in a game like GW2, it seems like a middle ground other than “gear treadmill” might have been a more viable solution.

Hi Guhracie,

Will all due respect there has been a huge amount of dialog, discussion, ideation, summary and proposals. If you want to add value to the thread then I suggest you read it. Until then I am going to take everything you say with a large handful of salt. Sorry.

Chris

Here is the end of the rest of the conversation that was left out of the original post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression/page/29#post3384499

Probably is a bit ingenuous to just post one part of the conversation.

Aeonblade.8709:

^ What? So they filter the negative feedback? That seems…backwards.

I’m assuming you are referring to this?

Pandemoniac.4739:

My company regularly distributes customer feedback, positive and negative, to all of us (…) I have never seen any of the negative comments contain statements calling the folks in the company stupid, incompetent, greedy, etc.

Yeah, negative feedback gets filtered when it’s not constructive. It’s something to keep in mind when you’re dealing with any company’s customer support. Most businesses recognize that there are some customers that you won’t be able to satisfy no matter what you do and focus their efforts on the relationships that can be turned around.

My company is also committed to what they call “employee engagement” because happy employees make for a better experience for the customers they interact with. I’m fairly sure we don’t get the venomous feedback inflicted on us because it would be more demoralizing than useful in helping us figure out what we could do better.

I think it would take a really special type of person to listen to someone calling them stupid and incompetent and get anything out of that conversation other than “wow, that person is angry”. Calling me names doesn’t make me want to help you or make me care about your problems. That’s just human nature.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Aeonblade.8709:

^ What? So they filter the negative feedback? That seems…backwards.

I’m assuming you are referring to this?

Pandemoniac.4739:

My company regularly distributes customer feedback, positive and negative, to all of us (…) I have never seen any of the negative comments contain statements calling the folks in the company stupid, incompetent, greedy, etc.

Yeah, negative feedback gets filtered when it’s not constructive. It’s something to keep in mind when you’re dealing with any company’s customer support. Most businesses recognize that there are some customers that you won’t be able to satisfy no matter what you do and focus their efforts on the relationships that can be turned around.

My company is also committed to what they call “employee engagement” because happy employees make for a better experience for the customers they interact with. I’m fairly sure we don’t get the venomous feedback inflicted on us because it would be more demoralizing than useful in helping us figure out what we could do better.

I think it would take a really special type of person to listen to someone calling them stupid and incompetent and get anything out of that conversation other than “wow, that person is angry”. Calling me names doesn’t make me want to help you or make me care about your problems. That’s just human nature.

No, that’s not what I was referring to specifically, just that they filter feedback at all seems weird to me. I’m not saying it was a bad thing, it’s just not something I have heard of before.

So they have a customer support team for the customer support team?

Devs ae not to blame, although they are not the best in the gaming industry. They are all juniors so not to blame.
Managers however and big greedy companies like ncsoft behind is/are to blame, to frustrate the players in buying their items from the in game store.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

guys, ok, so I have been snooping around all of the parts of our forums, and almost every thread I see goes about sidetracking into the typical sense:

Devs! You are a failure!

This is almost too stupid of a thing for me to comprehend. I am guessing those of you who stay in GW2 even after saying those things like something about the game right? Then act like you are appreciative and nothing more. If you think about the entire forums as a giant home where we are relatives of each other, it is almost like half of us are kindergardeners, while the next 25% of us are actually appreciative people, and the next 25% are just major trolls. So here’s what I am saying. It seems more and more like Gw2 is going to become a chaotic place in the future for the forums. The forums are where we get in contact with each other the easiest, and where brilliant ideas can be used.

I feel like this forum will actually get dirty if it continues to become a topic place of arguing against the devs.

@Players. If you are going to argue, do talk in a mannered voice, and give strong but calm reasons to back yourselves up. And don’t start a rant about something which can be addressed calmly.

@Devs. If you do something that might anger or confuse the players, give us a reason of why you did it. It doesn’t take much to start a thread and tell us what’s going on on the other side in terms of trying to manage the forums. If there is a policy at the other side which limits your contact with us as players by 80% or more, then that is no game. It’s just downright sad to see in the nicest way possible.

So my proposal. Maybe we should really have a chat get together maybe every month to see how we are doing on things, and what each of us(players and devs) have to propose to the community. Of course, this does not mean you devs have to come to this sort of chat with the nervous mind of being forced to share developments secrets. It just could be a way to talk to each other friendly. That, in my own opinion, is the path to success and happiness for both sides. I am being dead serious on this matter.

Thank you sir for creating this thread. I could go into a very long detailed post about the proper way to give constructive criticism and feedback, but I’ll just leave it at this.

We all should be criticizing and providing feedback on the systems and if they feel fun to us. There is nothing to gain with criticizing a person (especially a developer).

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

@Players. If you are going to argue, do talk in a mannered voice, and give strong but calm reasons to back yourselves up. And don’t start a rant about something which can be addressed calmly.

Sadly this is the internet, where when people don’t like something they won’t argue politely, they will yell angrily behind the safely of the “anonymity”, remember that a big part of the people here are young and don’t have the maturity to be reasonable about something they aren’t happy with.

You may think that the CDI is walking slowly, but organization and transparency takes time but it is a sure walking forward, the results from the CDI appear in game make take even longer but the Devs are getting the feedback from us for sure and we know it.
Many other games the players only talk to Community Managers and Moderators but never with a dev, so they never know if their feedback are reaching the people that really matter.

Aeonblade.8709:

No, that’s not what I was referring to specifically, just that they filter feedback at all seems weird to me. I’m not saying it was a bad thing, it’s just not something I have heard of before.

So they have a customer support team for the customer support team?

Well everyone in my company is responsible for making our clients happy whether we’re in support or not. We all get access to the customer feedback that the folks on the front line hear or that we get through surveys and such so that we can understand what folks like and where they’re having issues.

We have a team that collects the feedback, sorts it out and sends out the most useful comments (positive and negative) to the rest of the company every so often so we can look around our area of responsibility and see if there’s something we can do to make things better. The more constructive the criticism, the further it travels.

I expect that it’s similar for ANet. Not every developer can read every post on the forum or every e-mail. Some group of folks is filtering and collecting the feedback for the rest of the team to look over and discuss. Players are more likely to be heard if they express themselves in a less antagonistic way.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Aeonblade.8709:

No, that’s not what I was referring to specifically, just that they filter feedback at all seems weird to me. I’m not saying it was a bad thing, it’s just not something I have heard of before.

So they have a customer support team for the customer support team?

Well everyone in my company is responsible for making our clients happy whether we’re in support or not. We all get access to the customer feedback that the folks on the front line hear or that we get through surveys and such so that we can understand what folks like and where they’re having issues.

We have a team that collects the feedback, sorts it out and sends out the most useful comments (positive and negative) to the rest of the company every so often so we can look around our area of responsibility and see if there’s something we can do to make things better. The more constructive the criticism, the further it travels.

I expect that it’s similar for ANet. Not every developer can read every post on the forum or every e-mail. Some group of folks is filtering and collecting the feedback for the rest of the team to look over and discuss. Players are more likely to be heard if they express themselves in a less antagonistic way.

Not bad ideas, seems pretty efficient. Now if we could get my phone company to do this… So terrible.