These forums are a joke its not for opinions or debate its just a safe place for people to cry at.
Difficulty
I disagree about older PvE mobs being mechanically sound. Far too many of them lead off with an attack that takes them more time to complete than their TTL (time to live). ANet has tried addressing this with later mob armies, with little success.
Part of the problem is that GW2 is a quasi-action game. Either you can dodge or block the big attack or you can’t. If you can, the game is too easy. If you cannot, the game is too hard. The only in-between is for people who dodge enough of the attacks to mostly win fights, but enough to feel like they could lose.
Another part of the problem is the nature of PvE combat itself. No matter the encounter, it has to be beatable. If it isn’t beatable, it’s “over-tuned.” If it is beatable, then people learn the mechanics, practice the moves needed to win and it becomes old hat. Every addition of greater difficulty to the game has started with hard content aficionados praising ANet for adding it, followed within a varying amount of times by claims that it’s too easy.
Also, , there’s really only one tier of content. This means that no content can be tuned higher than (perhaps) the median in reaction time and skill of the expected user population. Dungeons are harder than open world. Raids are harder than most dungeon paths. They can be because the expectation is that the players who find story missions and open world to be right (or even hard) for their skill level were not expected to want to use dungeons and raids.
Finally, power creep has not helped — at all. Expected DPs for meta raid groups (on golems) is more than twice the numbers that were being tossed around before Heart of Thorns. Old content was not updated to account for this.
Reducing the size of squads will have little effect on zerg size in WvW. Say ANet halved the size. If people want to run in a huge group, they’d just use two commanders. There are servers doing that now. The smaller squads split to go for different objectives, but come together to face a map zerg, defend a keep, etc.
I hear your complaint. I get it. However, I don’t expect a lot of change. ANet has been responding to requests for more difficulty since shortly after the game launched. They’ve had little success. Still, it does not hurt to ask.
I’ve never wiped at dragon stand ever, or any meta event.
Fractals of the mist is easy too its made difficult thru AR if your over the AR suggestion you can face roll all of it easily hell 1-49 can be done with 0 AR with exception to bosses who have the AR check at the entrance.
Never failed any world boss ever since launch, not one ever…
Same here. I also get 300 every time I go bowling. It’s too easy.
Can we make this game more difficult across the board? Practically everything except sPvP is zerg the boss or tank and spank with minor aoe avoidances.
I’ve never wiped at dragon stand ever, or any meta event.
Fractals of the mist is easy too its made difficult thru AR if your over the AR suggestion you can face roll all of it easily hell 1-49 can be done with 0 AR with exception to bosses who have the AR check at the entrance.
Never failed any world boss ever since launch, not one ever…
Raids are not hard don’t say they are hard.
For dungeons except for TA and Arah all of them are tuned terribly low.
Personal story got nerfed hard as well.I think the game is mechanically sound but the difficulty for an action game is lacking maybe increase damage taken by 10% and monster hp a little higher? Possibly decrease the time your in downstate.
Because honestly, only obstacle thats really in your way in this game is time, i don’t think there’s any achievement in the game that anyone could consider difficult its just time consuming.
Also for WvW please reduce the size of commander squads so we can have actual pvp instead of 50ppl following a diamond literally not doing anything else but following that diamond. If there were small groups there would be more activity across the board more points of interest thus a more fun and warlike feeling instead of a giant train running around the map there should be multiple fronts of war not just 1 of them.
Remember that in general game has to designed for average player, not the super high skilled. Unfortunately, average player bar in this game is rather low in comparison with other games. So…. Deal with it or move on.
As for your WvW comments, the largest part of it is the community. If all you do is follow a dorito or server hop to whatever the current bandwagon might be then thats on you, not the game or its playerbase.
Heavy Deedz – COSA – SF
The game gets toned down overtime. The first incarnation of Orr was very difficult then it was changed. When HoT first came out stuff was hard for a lot of the causal players. Overtime the game gets balance more towards casual play. Their are still a few hard events but they are not commonly doe throughout the day. As for wvw it has a lot of issues that can not easily be solved.
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Platinum Scout: 300% MF
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Platinum Scout: 300% MF
I think the game is mechanically sound but the difficulty for an action game is lacking maybe increase damage taken by 10% and monster hp a little higher? Possibly decrease the time your in downstate.
I remember a time in Fractals when the mobs scaled badly in terms of hit points and damage, that wasn’t good. The made many changes to Fractals recently to make them mechanically better, more mechanics, more abilities for mobs.
Remember old Snowblind with a final boss that was just a sack of hit points? They fixed that by making the fight more exciting. Remember when Shadow Behemoth was a giant sack of hit points? Well it still is, but at least now we got the portals part that force players to move around a bit.
Increasing hit points and damage across the board makes things worse, not better. Some abilities with huge tells and a good window for avoidance can certainly be made absolutely deadly, but regular attacks do not.
For open world difficulty removing the ability to revive players that are dead can certainly help. While also helping with all those begging for a revive in the middle of combat (causing further wipes). If they did the same in Fractals / Dungeons cheese tactics of pulling bosses away so you can revive your allies wouldn’t work anymore meaning you either know how to deal with an encounter or you don’t, without a fail safe.
I’d be for having an “impossible mode” for Fractals, raids, etc. such that when a group finally beats it they are “rewarded accordingly” and the next time someone attempts it, it is automatically harder and scaled up “in some way”. Perhaps at some point the only way to beat it might be to hope that the power creep with the coming expansion is strong enough to form a capable build.
I wouldn’t personally care for an Impossible Mode, but maybe it satiate those who just want massive difficulty for difficulty’s sake.
I’d also like to see randomness in open world events. Events should randomly, and rarely spawn as “Hard Mode” in every zone that’s Level 15 and higher. I don’t know how this might be implemented, or how it’s best to make them harder. The most important thing to achieve is randomness. The game feels more stale when everyone knows where to go for the world boss. If, on the fly, someone comes up against a hard mode event it would feel a lot more exciting when trying to get more players into the zone to complete it. Again, players should be “rewarded accordingly”, but not necessarily any achievements for these kind of things.
Complete the Mushroom HP in Tangled Depths alone. Still easy?
Also for WvW please reduce the size of commander squads so we can have actual pvp instead of 50ppl following a diamond literally not doing anything else but following that diamond. If there were small groups there would be more activity across the board more points of interest thus a more fun and warlike feeling instead of a giant train running around the map there should be multiple fronts of war not just 1 of them.
Not everyone around a commander is in a squad. Shrinking the size of a squad isn’t going to have a significant impact on the size of blobs. The reward systems encourage blobbing over other things.
Some abilities with huge tells and a good window for avoidance can certainly be made absolutely deadly, but regular attacks do not.
On the other hand we have tendril roots that can one shot with a slight wiggle. The main tendril doesn’t even have anything like that.
(edited by Khisanth.2948)
You forget one thing, GW2 has at its core always had “an easy” an approach, same way a returner like me after a yearkittenus is still at the same “stat level” due to this game’s forgiveness and design. This game is meant to be accessible for the majority, thats where the hard revenue comes in, the casuals are the zerg and thats Anets target group. Within these boundaries you have varying degree of “hard”, with raids being on the top/spvp.
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I’ve never wiped at dragon stand ever, or any meta event.
Fractals of the mist is easy too its made difficult thru AR if your over the AR suggestion you can face roll all of it easily hell 1-49 can be done with 0 AR with exception to bosses who have the AR check at the entrance.
Never failed any world boss ever since launch, not one ever…Same here. I also get 300 every time I go bowling. It’s too easy.
I though I had the same problem until I had a breakthrough moment the other day. Round after round of shooting 18 on an 18. I finally got a good bounce and got a 17.
FWIW, I imagine everything looks easy when you’re getting carried.
SBI
Complete the Mushroom HP in Tangled Depths alone. Still easy?
Ultrahard Mode: TD Mushroom HP while the spore event is going on.
FWIW, I imagine everything looks easy when you’re getting carried.
I did notice a lot of group events in that “too easy” list.
I’ve never wiped at dragon stand ever, or any meta event.
Fractals of the mist is easy too its made difficult thru AR if your over the AR suggestion
Never failed any world boss ever since launch, not one ever…
Raids are not hard don’t say they are hard.
For dungeons except for TA and Arah all of them are tuned terribly low.
To be honest, I’d swear the above is utter hyperbole, because groups can and will fail some content, regardless of a single player’s overwhelming talent and obviously epic contributions.
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it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
as long as a mordrem snipers can almost insta-kill players and some events overwhelm players while they are alone i say the difficulty is fine the way it is, if you want a higher difficulty ask for hard mode for dungeons or fractuals.
Powercreep
You can ask anet to nerf our skills across board, that surely will increase difficulty as well.
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Can we make this game more difficult across the board?
How about no? Just because you personally think the game’s too easy doesn’t mean everyone else has to subscribe to it.
If you want a harder time, there is literally nothing stopping you from making the game more difficult for yourself and nobody else – just play one-handed. Or while eating. Or being distracted by a math problem or while writing an essay. Blindfolded, maybe. While washing a cat. Doing household chores. With your feet instead of your hands. Without a mouse. And so on. And so on.
No need to involve anyone else or even changing one line of code.
I agree with Stinkehund. This was never marketed as a hardcore game and it never will be. There are other less forgiving MMOs out there if that’s what you are into. The actual percentage of highly skilled hardcore players is minor compared to the casual market this game is geared towards.
This not your game. This is not my game. This is ArenaNet’s game and thus it is not geared to cater to what you, I, or any other individual wants just because we want it.
I smash “1” for greatness… (òÓ,)
I feel like the difficulty is okay in everything from LS2 and onward. But personal story, and the Central Tyria maps, have taken some serious nerfs that have left them completely unchallenging (even group events to lone players).
Its become so bad that in the last years since the New Player Experience, I’ve seen no less than a dozen people who had just joined the game coming here an complaining that the gameplay is too easy for them /as a casual player/, and this is often cited as one of the biggest reasons that people leave early on.
Sure, I understand that the game is casual and always was, but people should understand "casual " at release time was not the same as “casual” now, especially not for Central Tyria where you once had to be in full rares just to tackle level 60-80 maps by yourself. There’s a very good reason that the minimum level for each tier of gear was set to what they were: you were supposed to be need them.
I’d be 100% in favor of “backporting” some of the LS2+ difficulty to what came before it and making the core game something worth investing time in again, not “loolworldboss1111111zergzergloooooooootnextoneplz”.
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/i’m a lesbiab… lesbiam… less bien… GIRLS/
I’m usually really sweet… but this an internet forum and you know how it has to be.
/i’m a lesbiab… lesbiam… less bien… GIRLS/
Can we make this game more difficult across the board? Practically everything except sPvP is zerg the boss or tank and spank with minor aoe avoidances.
I’ve never wiped at dragon stand ever, or any meta event.
Fractals of the mist is easy too its made difficult thru AR if your over the AR suggestion you can face roll all of it easily hell 1-49 can be done with 0 AR with exception to bosses who have the AR check at the entrance.
Never failed any world boss ever since launch, not one ever…
Raids are not hard don’t say they are hard.
For dungeons except for TA and Arah all of them are tuned terribly low.
Personal story got nerfed hard as well.I think the game is mechanically sound but the difficulty for an action game is lacking maybe increase damage taken by 10% and monster hp a little higher? Possibly decrease the time your in downstate.
Because honestly, only obstacle thats really in your way in this game is time, i don’t think there’s any achievement in the game that anyone could consider difficult its just time consuming.
Also for WvW please reduce the size of commander squads so we can have actual pvp instead of 50ppl following a diamond literally not doing anything else but following that diamond. If there were small groups there would be more activity across the board more points of interest thus a more fun and warlike feeling instead of a giant train running around the map there should be multiple fronts of war not just 1 of them.
Remember that in general game has to designed for average player, not the super high skilled. Unfortunately, average player bar in this game is rather low in comparison with other games. So…. Deal with it or move on.
As for your WvW comments, the largest part of it is the community. If all you do is follow a dorito or server hop to whatever the current bandwagon might be then thats on you, not the game or its playerbase.
The game can choose what the average player is. And if some arent.. dont worry the game while get them in shape >:)
Can we make this game more difficult across the board? Practically everything except sPvP is zerg the boss or tank and spank with minor aoe avoidances.
I’ve never wiped at dragon stand ever, or any meta event.
Fractals of the mist is easy too its made difficult thru AR if your over the AR suggestion you can face roll all of it easily hell 1-49 can be done with 0 AR with exception to bosses who have the AR check at the entrance.
Never failed any world boss ever since launch, not one ever…
Raids are not hard don’t say they are hard.
For dungeons except for TA and Arah all of them are tuned terribly low.
Personal story got nerfed hard as well.I think the game is mechanically sound but the difficulty for an action game is lacking maybe increase damage taken by 10% and monster hp a little higher? Possibly decrease the time your in downstate.
Because honestly, only obstacle thats really in your way in this game is time, i don’t think there’s any achievement in the game that anyone could consider difficult its just time consuming.
Also for WvW please reduce the size of commander squads so we can have actual pvp instead of 50ppl following a diamond literally not doing anything else but following that diamond. If there were small groups there would be more activity across the board more points of interest thus a more fun and warlike feeling instead of a giant train running around the map there should be multiple fronts of war not just 1 of them.
Remember that in general game has to designed for average player, not the super high skilled. Unfortunately, average player bar in this game is rather low in comparison with other games. So…. Deal with it or move on.
As for your WvW comments, the largest part of it is the community. If all you do is follow a dorito or server hop to whatever the current bandwagon might be then thats on you, not the game or its playerbase.
The game can choose what the average player is. And if some arent.. dont worry the game while get them in shape >:)
Or have them quit…
Can we make this game more difficult across the board? Practically everything except sPvP is zerg the boss or tank and spank with minor aoe avoidances.
I’ve never wiped at dragon stand ever, or any meta event.
Fractals of the mist is easy too its made difficult thru AR if your over the AR suggestion you can face roll all of it easily hell 1-49 can be done with 0 AR with exception to bosses who have the AR check at the entrance.
Never failed any world boss ever since launch, not one ever…
Raids are not hard don’t say they are hard.
For dungeons except for TA and Arah all of them are tuned terribly low.
Personal story got nerfed hard as well.I think the game is mechanically sound but the difficulty for an action game is lacking maybe increase damage taken by 10% and monster hp a little higher? Possibly decrease the time your in downstate.
Because honestly, only obstacle thats really in your way in this game is time, i don’t think there’s any achievement in the game that anyone could consider difficult its just time consuming.
Also for WvW please reduce the size of commander squads so we can have actual pvp instead of 50ppl following a diamond literally not doing anything else but following that diamond. If there were small groups there would be more activity across the board more points of interest thus a more fun and warlike feeling instead of a giant train running around the map there should be multiple fronts of war not just 1 of them.
Remember that in general game has to designed for average player, not the super high skilled. Unfortunately, average player bar in this game is rather low in comparison with other games. So…. Deal with it or move on.
As for your WvW comments, the largest part of it is the community. If all you do is follow a dorito or server hop to whatever the current bandwagon might be then thats on you, not the game or its playerbase.
The game can choose what the average player is. And if some arent.. dont worry the game while get them in shape >:)
Or have them quit…
Both work
So your proposal is to make Guild Wars 2 hardcore and force out the casual average players to other games? That doesn’t really make good business sense. That also sounds incredibly self-centered and elitist so I am hoping that it was a mild troll or a joke.
I smash “1” for greatness… (òÓ,)
Can we make this game more difficult across the board? Practically everything except sPvP is zerg the boss or tank and spank with minor aoe avoidances.
I’ve never wiped at dragon stand ever, or any meta event.
Fractals of the mist is easy too its made difficult thru AR if your over the AR suggestion you can face roll all of it easily hell 1-49 can be done with 0 AR with exception to bosses who have the AR check at the entrance.
Never failed any world boss ever since launch, not one ever…
Raids are not hard don’t say they are hard.
For dungeons except for TA and Arah all of them are tuned terribly low.
Personal story got nerfed hard as well.I think the game is mechanically sound but the difficulty for an action game is lacking maybe increase damage taken by 10% and monster hp a little higher? Possibly decrease the time your in downstate.
Because honestly, only obstacle thats really in your way in this game is time, i don’t think there’s any achievement in the game that anyone could consider difficult its just time consuming.
Also for WvW please reduce the size of commander squads so we can have actual pvp instead of 50ppl following a diamond literally not doing anything else but following that diamond. If there were small groups there would be more activity across the board more points of interest thus a more fun and warlike feeling instead of a giant train running around the map there should be multiple fronts of war not just 1 of them.
Remember that in general game has to designed for average player, not the super high skilled. Unfortunately, average player bar in this game is rather low in comparison with other games. So…. Deal with it or move on.
As for your WvW comments, the largest part of it is the community. If all you do is follow a dorito or server hop to whatever the current bandwagon might be then thats on you, not the game or its playerbase.
The game can choose what the average player is. And if some arent.. dont worry the game while get them in shape >:)
Or have them quit…
Both work
Man am I glad you are not in charge of literally anything in GW2.
So your proposal is to make Guild Wars 2 hardcore and force out the casual average players to other games? That doesn’t really make good business sense. That also sounds incredibly self-centered and elitist so I am hoping that it was a mild troll or a joke.
I know right?
Trollish as it was the opposite os the case. Ppl who dont play games casually come to gw2 and they dont find anything particullary interesting to keep them. the game forces them to play casually or leave so why is the opposite a bad thing?
If a game isnt for someone then he can do other stuff and there are countless demographics of players with diff needs so whats bad with one demographic getting smaller and 1 getting bigger during a game’s life?
(edited by zealex.9410)
Trollish as it was the opposite os the case. Ppl who dont play games casually come to gw2 and they dont find anything particullary interesting to keep them. the game forces them to play casually or leave so why is the opposite a bad thing?
You are so off base…
GW2 started as a casual experience. A big part of the playerbase came to GW2 because it is so casual friendly. The outcry and complaints about HoTs difficulty still come up even now after almost 2 years of nerfing and simplifying stuff.
To now demand the game be changed around and made harder would alienate a big part of the (paying) customerbase.
People who hardcore play MMOs can raid or fractal in GW2 and have been doing so ever since those game modes were introduced. This is a new feature and as long as people enjoy it, more power to them.
This does not mean that the core customer base needs to get removed and even less that people should be happy about them leaving. Any type of loss of players is bad.
If a game isnt for someone then he can do other stuff and there are countless demographics of players with diff needs so whats bad with one demographic getting smaller and 1 getting bigger during a game’s life?
Because the hardcore player demographic in GW2 is tiny compared to the casual players. You are trading an Aston Martin for a Lada in terms of customer count.
idk find me some articles or blogposts by the devs saying this game is targeted to casuals. That also say that the instnaced pve like dungeons fractals and raids were also targeted at that casual playerbase.
idk find me some articles or blogposts by the devs saying this game is targeted to casuals. That also say that the instnaced pve like dungeons fractals and raids were also targeted at that casual playerbase.
That’s not how burden of proof works. I don’t need to find anything. I have close to 5 years of open world GW2 to prove my point (and balance changes going with those years). It’s the status quo.
You would have to show that the developers have failed for over 5 years in developing content aimed at hardcore players though.
I also never said dungeons, fractals and raids are aimed at casual players. Especially raids are not, though none of those contents are that hard and have received balance changes as well over the years to make them more accessible.
raids fractals and dungeons are not aimed at hardcore players either so what are they aimed at and why di they exist in a casual game then?
raids fractals and dungeons are not aimed at hardcore players either so what are they aimed at and why di they exist in a casual game then?
Please reread what I actually wrote.
I’m not going to repeat myself 3 times only because you can’t take the time to understand what was writen in clear, plain english.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
Raids are hardcore. ArenaNet is limited with what they can do without completely rewriting the entire game engine. Raids were introduced as challenging team content for those who over the years were asking for such a thing. ArenaNet can’t just wave a wand and make everything super hard. There is a lot that goes into creating raid environments, mechanics, and making them work in a setting that’s both challenging and fun.
The fact that hardcore players have learned, mastered, and outplayed most raids now does not negate the fact that raids are intended to be hardcore content. I don’t believe ArenaNet should change an entire game format just to keep about 7-8% of the most vocal content consumers happy. Like it or not, given the engine this game runs hardcore players will never find a challenge that takes them many months to years to master.
I smash “1” for greatness… (òÓ,)
I wonder if op is aware that Anet implemented a patch in the spring of 2016 to actually make HoT easier. This was done because of complaints of many gw2 players. It seems to me that it would make terrible business sense to implement ops ideas.
I disagree. I honestly don’t understand why people want video games to be “difficult”. When I play GAMES, I just want to have fun, kill stuff and feel how powerful my character is in a virtual world. If I want something difficult, I log off and play real life! We already have T4 fractals and raids that are difficult, enjoy!
GW2 started as a casual experience.
If by casual you mean a game you can leave and then come back without the burden of getting new gear yes. If by casual you mean a game that doesn’t force you to grind too much in order to get the maximum statistical gear then yes. If by casual you mean a game you can play on your own time without the need to form permanent groups, then also yes.
If by casual you mean “easy”, as in the context of this thread, then you are wrong. The same outcry the game got with Heart of Thorns, we had it back when the game was released. “GW2 has the hardest dungeons!”, was rather common. Even “This personal story part is way too hard!”, or “Elementalists just die too easily!”. That Human Street Rat final personal story step for example was notorious for its difficulty. Or the Fire Elemental in Thaumanova.
And each release since then had its own fair share of “outcries” in terms of difficulty. For example, you should remember the young karka, or the Toy Princess, or the initial version of the Mordrem Wolf. GW2 might’ve been a casual game in far too many aspects, but difficulty wasn’t one of them.
If by casual you mean “easy”, as in the context of this thread, then you are wrong. The same outcry the game got with Heart of Thorns, we had it back when the game was released. “GW2 has the hardest dungeons!”, was rather common. Even “This personal story part is way too hard!”, or “Elementalists just die too easily!”. That Human Street Rat final personal story step for example was notorious for its difficulty. Or the Fire Elemental in Thaumanova.
Yes and no. You are comparing 2 different types of difficulty and arguing as though they were the same.
GW2 when it originally launched was received with an outcry of “it’s to hard” because people were not used to active damage avoidance and selfreliance in MMOs. The breakup of the trinity was for many very hard to adapt to.
That made the game subjectively hard. It was not until some months later that people slowly adapted. Objectively (meaning looking at how hard mechanically the game was) it was not a hard game.
The difficulty added with HoT,raids and recent living story instances was of an actual mechanical and intelectual difference meaning you actually had to achieve harder and harder feats playerskill wise (measured in of action per minute) as well as more and more refined builds (since not all builds would work).
So yes, in both cases the game was hard. The difference though is, we are now arguing from a developed established MMO with a playerbase that has matured (or not matured if you look at open world content) and adapted.
Official stance on the matter has been:
- open world is for everyone
- instanced content is for people who want more difficulty
This has been apperent in most balance changes accross the board.
GW2 when it originally launched was received with an outcry of “it’s to hard” because people were not used to active damage avoidance and selfreliance in MMOs. The breakup of the trinity was for many very hard to adapt to.
I believe that was on purpose. Just like the players weren’t used to the mechanics of the game, the developers weren’t either. As the community matures and becomes better at playing the game, doesn’t it make sense to make the encounters more complex as well?
That’s how we get new things, for example breakbars were a new layer of mechanical difficulty added to the game with Heart of Thorns, now every bit of content (or most) uses them in some way. And honestly, although they make encounters more complex/difficult, they do make them better as well. Breakbars on bosses force cooperation, something rarely needed in core tyria. With the core game you learned how to rely on yourself, as part of a group, with HoT you learn how to cooperate with others, while also relying on yourself. It’s an adaptation thing.
I do believe that the game needs to constantly evolve and find new ways to challenge the players, otherwise it gets stale and boring. And those new types of challenges will always be “harder” at least until you adapt to them.
GW2 when it originally launched was received with an outcry of “it’s to hard” because people were not used to active damage avoidance and selfreliance in MMOs. The breakup of the trinity was for many very hard to adapt to.
I believe that was on purpose. Just like the players weren’t used to the mechanics of the game, the developers weren’t either. As the community matures and becomes better at playing the game, doesn’t it make sense to make the encounters more complex as well?
That’s exactly what they are doing. Hence the introduction of raids and occasional slightly more difficult living world episodes.
This does not solve the fact though that a big chunk of the playerbase will not move past “basic” skill levels. A modern MMO has to appeas a huge crowd. The industry leader WoW does this by dumbing down content on a regular basis and/or letting players easily outgear content which they previsouly were not able to complete, as do many other traditional MMOs(just take a look at the gear treadmill in most traditional MMOs). GW2 can’t take that route, at least not to the same extent as their competition, thus the developers have to be very careful with alienating players, escpecially in open world content.
The alternative is to become a niche game with a tiny player population of hardcore players. That would hardly work in their current business model though.