Dirty cash

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Posted by: Zelyhn.8069

Zelyhn.8069

Hello all!

I would like to raise player’s awareness on the cash generating mechanics of the game; namely the BLTC and gems. I have noticed developpers (and publishers) pay attention to the forum threads that show significant levels of activity. I believe it is therefore possible to influence the game in a somehow democratic impulse by voicing our concerns.

Here is what I would like to attract you attention to:

1. You are almost obliged to buy bank/bag slots.
Have you noticed the amount of items you get and want to keep in this game? There are a plethora of items currencies (more with every patch!), you get many items from dungeon runs, tokens, tonics, you have to keep your 4-5 weapons in your inventory, some extra axes/pickaxes, pvp items, wvw items… this is a lot of items! If you want to play the game to its full extent you necessarily have to buy bags and banks slots to keep up with the item pressure.

2. There are pay to win items.
Yes this is minor, but their presence is a serious pain. I count rez orbs, repair toolkits and upgrades, I might be missing some. Repair tools are essential in high level fractals as they allow you to avoid the one thing (theoretically) that can prevent you from completing a fractal level: armor breaking. Rez orbs feel awkward, but upgrades are a straight pay to win incentive! The fact that they are minor do not take away anything.

3. PvP has to be an other cash cow.
There were paid tournaments now you have paid custom arenas. In case you don’t see it properly let me phrase it for you: they want to make cash out of PvP.

_

I would like to compare this cash shot with that of an other game: Heroes of Newerth. HoN is a dota-like game that showed quite some success in its first years. The cash shop there was quite straightforward and very honest: you could buy cool cosmetic items. These items were cool indeed, cosmetic only, and they felt like providing support to the game. You knew you were giving money to the developpers by buying those. At not point in the game did you feel like you had to buy them, they were completely unnecessary; yet people did buy them because it was an honest way to say thanks for this cool game! Now take a look at gw2: the cash shop & gems are very very aggressive. It trully feels like they want to compell you to buy gems and spend them, which is understandable, but not very honest!

_

There is an additional aspect in this game that must be cast into light (and hopefully exorcised). You see all these threads complaining about salvage/loot/mystic drop decreases ? The game is filled with indirect loot: you get many whites/blues/greens that are worthless (all they do is take bag space), you get yellows are other salvageable items, you get openable bags, and you mystic-toilet some as well. They will never tell you that they have nerfed drop rates but in fact they control it very well: yes you will always get those openable bags, but what they contain will be nerfed. Yes you can still salvage stuff and hope to get ectos but there might be a “bug” and you will get less. Since this is all RNG you will always find someone to blame your bad luck, in the meantime they can control evertything. This keeps you farming and the more you farm the more you are likely to buy gems at some point.

_

The cash generating mechanics of this game are very well thought because they are efectively pressuring players while keeping them eating the grass (yes I liek this cash cow thing). However, they are dirty: they feel dishonest and tricky.

My point being: don’t take your playerbase for fools. Being dishonest only brings distrust.

There are many people willing to support the development of the game, and I am one of them. It is a human thing to be more willing to give cash to a friend in need than to a beggar sticking his “give me money” sign to your face (no offence intended).

Your move developpers/publishers: which of the beggar or the friend will you choose to be?

Zelyhn.8069 [rT]
Retired elementalist theorycrafter

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

I can understand you feel this way – being forced into buying things, but I, personally, don’t feel forced into buying anything. I have a bank full of rez orbs, repair kits, etc. and I seldom use them. Lol, actually, I usually forget I have them. I didn’t buy any of them, they were all just rewards from doing this or that. I will say that I have expanded my bank a bit, but again, I didn’t use any cash to do so, just traded in gold for gems. I have not put a penny into this game, other than the initial box price, though I would love to support ArenaNet had I the extra cash to do so.

I appreciate your opinion. I just wanted to put my opinion out there, as well. =)

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Posted by: Yargesh.4965

Yargesh.4965

3 games with a truly horrible greedy in-game shop, Allods, Entropia Universe and Atlantica online. Go play them and then come back and talk about this games shop. It is purely fluff which is exactly right in my opinion.

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Posted by: Tamaki Revolution.3548

Tamaki Revolution.3548

2. There are pay to win items.
Yes this is minor, but their presence is a serious pain. I count rez orbs, repair toolkits and upgrades, I might be missing some. Repair tools are essential in high level fractals as they allow you to avoid the one thing (theoretically) that can prevent you from completing a fractal level: armor breaking. Rez orbs feel awkward, but upgrades are a straight pay to win incentive! The fact that they are minor do not take away anything.

What the hell are you talking about? :P

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Posted by: CobaltSixty.1542

CobaltSixty.1542

Have you ever used a revive orb? The only thing a revive orb saves you is the silver cost of using a waypoint.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Revive orbs are HORRIBLE. You can’t really use them if you’re in any danger at all. When you use one, you suffer from five seconds of revive sickness. You can’t do anything. You walk at a crawl. You can’t dodge. If there’s anything around you at all,. you’re going back down. I’ve wasted more revive orbs than I’ve used sucessfully.

Repair canisters? Really? For one thing you can farm gold and can buy them with gold, and not spend a penny of your cash. You can get them with zone completion or dailies as well. I didn’t buy a repair canister for ages.

I think you must be confusing this game with another, because there’s no P2W here.

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Posted by: Zelyhn.8069

Zelyhn.8069

If an item gives you gameplay advantage (like upgrades: +5% dmg, +5% armor etc) then it is P2W to some extent.

Zelyhn.8069 [rT]
Retired elementalist theorycrafter

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Posted by: LHound.8964

LHound.8964

If an item gives you gameplay advantage (like upgrades: +5% dmg, +5% armor etc) then it is P2W to some extent.

What item currently in the cash shop does that?

Also, if there is no advantage whatsoever in PvP (sPvP, tPvP and WvW), then it’s fine to me! Services and Fashionable items are fine as they are in the shop!

—————— ~~ ~~ —-————-
Charr’s need more Love. All is Vain
—————— ~~ ~~ —-————-

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Posted by: Sebulon.7683

Sebulon.7683

I don’t need extra bank slots when I can create new characters for free and make 15 slot bags for him with my main.

I’ve never bought a bank slot expansion and I’ve only bought one bag slot expansion for my main, which was shortly after release when the gem prices were still low.

Only used revive orb once in fractals.

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Posted by: Garb Cost.3718

Garb Cost.3718

I’ve never felt obliged to buy anything from the gem shop. I have converted gold to gems on a couple of occasions (for transmute crystals) and bought an extra character slot but other than that…. no.

Bank/bag slots would be a possible outlay but first of all, it doesn’t have to be hard cash and second of all, If something is sitting in the bank and has been for ages then I obviously don’t need it so I get rid of it.

I feel that the OP is a little misguided and I really really don’t mean to dump on their opinion by saying that.

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Posted by: RainbowSyrup.4130

RainbowSyrup.4130

I stopped reading at pay 2 win.

’’I’m sad hanar can’t wear sweaters’’
-Grunt

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Posted by: Ackos.7942

Ackos.7942

I dont want to say much, but i farmed cof for my bagslots and bankslots. You can use gold to pay for gems. The only problem is pvp they dont get gold from pvp.

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Posted by: Yargesh.4965

Yargesh.4965

I dont want to say much, but i farmed cof for my bagslots and bankslots. You can use gold to pay for gems. The only problem is pvp they dont get gold from pvp.

sPVP you are given everything, what do you need gold for?

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Posted by: Zelyhn.8069

Zelyhn.8069

Thank you all for your replies, and please don’t worry about “hurting my opinion” or anything like this. I know people saying “this is your opinion and I respect it however mine differs” is a common practice on forums since everybody get nervous quite fast, but to be honest it is obvious everything I say is my opinion and all you will say is your opinion, and all sentences along the lines of “this is just your opinion” are useless and redondant. So spare yourself the effort, I can take a hit from someone disagreeing with me

Maybe I should have made a TL;DR for my post so people could understand the core of my ideas. If anything please look a the words in bold.

I may be wrong about the aggressiveness of the cash shop (I did play Allods..), or maybe I am right. But this does not take away how dishonest those mechanics are, and this is the e’ssence of my critique.

Edited to circumvent the censorship in the word “e’ssence”

Zelyhn.8069 [rT]
Retired elementalist theorycrafter

(edited by Zelyhn.8069)

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Posted by: LordByron.8369

LordByron.8369

repair canisters are no longly needed in fotm since you can exit repair and enter again even as host (you just should not change character).

the worst thing being in the cash shop is the trasmutation crystals…..that were removed from dailys/maps etc…..but you can get those with gold :|

GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

I may be blind, but I don’t see how it is dishonest to be able to buy things from the cash shop with in-game gold. One doesn’t have to spend one red cent. Nor are any of the items in the cash shop necessary to play the game; they may afford one a certain amount of convenience, but not purchasing anything there prevents one from playing the entire game.

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Posted by: LordByron.8369

LordByron.8369

i didn t get any Crystal (are you sure you didn t get a “stone”) since many months when i used to get some often. (fine trasmutation stones)
And wiki says they are not on the list anymore……

GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

i didn t get any Crystal (are you sure you didn t get a “stone”) since many months when i used to get some often. (fine trasmutation stones)
And wiki says they are not on the list anymore……

Aye, I went in and checked and it was indeed a Stone, my bad ^^ (deleted the post btw)

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

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Posted by: EXireXs.3602

EXireXs.3602

since we can convert gold to gems, it’s not a problem.
look at dragon nest’s inventory lol. make people wanna scream.
also atlantica. They just keep on releasing new mounts with better stats and guess what? RNG hahah. what makes it worse is that if you wanna be better in game, you have to have the mount since it really boost ur stat by lots of points.
my point is that as long as they dont impact stats, its okay.

(edited by EXireXs.3602)

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

Bank and bag slots are precisely the sort of things a shop should have. I have very little issues with the shop, i think it is very good and certainly isnt pay to win at all, nor have i ever felt pressurised to buy anything.

Having said that, rng boxes should never be in the shop. Exclusive skins i have no issue, but not as a chance item.

Im also in two minds about buying gold. I can see the pros and cons of it, i just cant quite settle on whether it is a good or bad thing to have.

I dont think it is out to trick us though or see how it is doing this. People should take responsibility for their own purchases after all

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Posted by: marnick.4305

marnick.4305

Bank slots are not pay to win.
Revive orbs are not pay to win.
Repair canisters are not pay to win.

If I can’t play Guild Wars 2 at work, I won’t work in Guild Wars 2 either.
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto

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Posted by: Morrigan.2809

Morrigan.2809

Op- I disagree with you.

1.You are not obliged to buy bag or bank slots.
I find crafting big-ish bags on all my characters quite sufficient and since you can pretty much deposit stuff on the go I have yet to run out of bag space without buying any extra slots whatsoever.
As for Bankspace it is useful sure- but if you don’t want to buy a slot make a guild and get your own vault- it costs you nothing but the cost of creating the guild

2. PtW- res orbs, boosts and repair canisters?
Are you kidding me?
Most of my bankspace that you complain about is being taken up by this useless nonsense that I keep getting for free.

3. Battleflield 3 says hello- People have been asking for this, now they have it.
It is a popular way of providing custom arenas to players who want to do their own thing- this does not make Anet the devil

As for the rest of your rant, they provide fluff for players to buy if they want, they can even buy it with ingame gold, if anything it seems very generous to me.

I’ve played cash cow games- GW2 does not even come close

Gunnar’s Hold

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Posted by: Silver.3284

Silver.3284

The minute they allow you buy gems with in game gold, the whole thing becomes a non-issue. I have 8 bank slots, extra bags on chars, an extra char slot, the permanent pick and sickle and have burned through more than fifty trans crystals. I have used in game gold for all of this and I do not farm cof all day. I am just not trying to get a legendary asap and so there is not much to do with my gold apart from converting it into gems.

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Posted by: Grounder.7381

Grounder.7381

try playing a korean mmo.. like dragon nest. for example..
maybe you haven’t met a real P2W yet.. thus.. the /thread.

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Posted by: Zelyhn.8069

Zelyhn.8069

Of course games do not sell a “win button” … what is the win in a pvp mmo game anyway?

Even if these P2W items are very minor they are P2W to a degree, and their sheer existence is enough to be blamed.

If I may insist, nobody has a problem with indirect loot?

Zelyhn.8069 [rT]
Retired elementalist theorycrafter

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Posted by: Stone.6751

Stone.6751

The only thing I have ever felt was somewhat necessary was extra bag slots and bank slots, and these are within reach by using gold. But even these aren’t totally necessary if you manage your inventory well and don’t horde stuff ‘for a rainy day’ that never comes.

Penny Royalty – Level 80 Guardian
Raingarde – Level 80 Necromancer

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Posted by: Mike.5091

Mike.5091

1. Make your own guild for slots. Pretty easy to level. And if you cba just buy 2k guild experience for 16 Laurels.

2. Those things are luxury goods imo. They may be a nice-to-have but you don’t get any real advantage.

3. Seems quite legitimate to me and the prices don’t seem to be that high. Then again I only play hot-join PvP. Also this wouldn’t be dirty cash, as you have to pay to play. So there are no “hidden costs” here.

The exsistance of “complaining threads”, as you reffered to, don’t mean that there is an actual problem. Some people complain about a low amount of drops while others complain about having to buy more inventorybagspaces and others only want gold drops.

Sofar all the cash-shop items a have came from free keys for chests, dailies, … Tkittenags bigger than 8-slots I obtained through game events (20, 12, 10 or so). And if I do happen to have full bags and no time to run to a salesman, I just send my gf my items and she sends them back.

Also atm I’m leveling my own guild for extra space.

I will admit that I bought 3 extra char-slots from rl money. But that wasn’t for the slots or that I felt pressured, but because I want(ed) to level all classes and didn’t have much gold back then.

+ there is something called free will.

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Posted by: Bloodstealer.5978

Bloodstealer.5978

If an item gives you gameplay advantage (like upgrades: +5% dmg, +5% armor etc) then it is P2W to some extent.

So what would you want ANET to do in order to continue to show a profit from a game… cos of course if they don’t and continue to show a red below the line, you think there is going to be a GW2 left for us to login to.

Unfortunately GW2 is nothing more than any other commodity put out in front of us to buy and use, NEWSFLASH just in – ANET is not a charity and it costs to put GW2 out there for us all to play.. you know employees need to be fed, hamsters need water, lightbulbs need to be switched on, oh and my personal favourite – the game isn’t finished it evolves and guess who has to put the time in to make that happen.

Forgive me if I am wrong but where in all of this are you forced to shell out real hard cash for anything else in game, especially as you can utilise in game coin to exchange for gems anyway – only you make that decision no one else.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

2. There are pay to win items.
Yes this is minor, but their presence is a serious pain. I count rez orbs, repair toolkits and upgrades, I might be missing some. Repair tools are essential in high level fractals as they allow you to avoid the one thing (theoretically) that can prevent you from completing a fractal level: armor breaking. Rez orbs feel awkward, but upgrades are a straight pay to win incentive! The fact that they are minor do not take away anything.

Rez orbs aren’t very useful in dungeons, in fact having one usually doesn’t matter at all. Repair canisters are totally useless in any dungeon, in fractals you do know you can go outside, repair, then go back in right? Even if you are the one who started the instance.

You forgot some facts:
A) You can convert gold to gems, you don’t have to pay for anything
B) You can get lots and lots of those items by playing the game, they are not strictly gem store content
C) You P2W using those items against who? Win against who?

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Posted by: KarateKid.5648

KarateKid.5648

As a newer player who’s only been playing a couple months, this game is anything BUT P2W.

I can buy almost anything with gold (which is not that hard to get, once you get the hang of it) or by running mists/dungeons.

Consumables like axes and their siblings or salvage kits are manageable once you realize you don’t have to farm or salvage EVERY.SINGLE.THING you come across.

The BLTC keys are lame and obvious in their intent, but in no way are they P2W.

And like the poster above, I have repair canisters I forget in my bank constantly. The fact they’ve not been needed (though woulda been nice) tells me they’re a convenience factor, nothing more.

IMHO, your apparent disdain for people making and spending money in general is coloring your perspective on reality. I bet the auction house makes you cringe as well.

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Posted by: locoman.1974

locoman.1974

What are the upgrades, BTW?. I admit I don’t follow the gemstore as much since I haven’t bought anything except some transmutation crystals I’ve bought with gold, but don’t remember seeing anything there that was an actual boost to stats.

Personally I haven’t had problems with bag space so far, but mainly because I made 18 slot bags for all my chars (2g rune each with armorsmith) as soon as I could, plus I’m keeping one char so far as a mule, but so far don’t remember the last time I got an inventory full message (of course, regularly deposit collectibles, salvage whites, rares and exotics I’m not going to use and sell greens and blues as soon as I’m near a vendor)

It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training,
wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha.
A real grab bag of ‘you can’t hurt me. They’re called Guardians.

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Posted by: Dra Keln.2015

Dra Keln.2015

Credibility lost at salvage rate “bug” conspiracy. They refunded any and all blsks used during the period. And fixed the bug, it feels to me like the salvage rates have been boosted but I won’t take my anecdotal evidence as proof

80 ele
Yaks Bend

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Posted by: tigirius.9014

tigirius.9014

I do agree loot manipulation is never a clean way of doing things. And even tho they said they were adjusting it, players are still being hit by the DR thing. They need to make it so that hours of farming like 4+ cause DR because we all know that most legit farmers don’t spend more then 1-2 hours farming for anything because we are human and we do get bored and run off to try other things after that amount of time has passed.

Also, the other thing they could do to improve the game is to improve the rewards for completing lower level zones. They could improve the drops from the chests guarded by champions in the world in all zones so that the chests actually have a chance of dropping T6 materials (and not the same chance as the Orrian boxes please no). They could improve the rewards for finishing the personal story.

All of this could be done for level 80 toons so that when one reaches level 80 and they need cash moneys to get the things they need especially in the instances of completely breaking builds like they’ve been known to do in their balance patches, people can go out and get some great drops from doing the things they do actually want players to do.

It would also help the aspect of gearing alts.

Oh and finally we need an option for buying Runes/sigils from karma or laurel vendors because there’s a big issue with that as well. Some of these Runes/sigils are so outrageously priced per that it’s still impossible for some to get enough gold together to outfit themselves entirely in a 6 piece set.

Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!

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Posted by: Dra Keln.2015

Dra Keln.2015

Contrary to popular belief, loot manipulation doesn’t benefit anet. All it does is change the rarity of an item, and since anet doesn’t sell items directly the price comes from a the amount of . TP barons do not ruin the economy. People farming T6 mats do not ruin te economy. None of these add gold to the pool. People who farm Gold, be it via CoF or any other method are the sole source of inflation. Just wanted to put that out there

80 ele
Yaks Bend

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Posted by: LHound.8964

LHound.8964

Contrary to popular belief, loot manipulation doesn’t benefit anet. All it does is change the rarity of an item, and since anet doesn’t sell items directly the price comes from a the amount of . TP barons do not ruin the economy. People farming T6 mats do not ruin te economy. None of these add gold to the pool. People who farm Gold, be it via CoF or any other method are the sole source of inflation. Just wanted to put that out there

Inflation isn’t the result of CoF farming! Inflation is a natural process that occurs upon players getting more wealth. That is a natural process that keeps happening trough the game’s age. CoF gave players a faster way of getting gold, and because of that it has increased the velocity of the inflation process, but it’s not the sole responsible for that!

I agree that the game needs to tone down a bit CoF reward/time spent ratio, as long as they increase the rewards in different places. Creating a mechanism that will influence the market negatively as reducing CoF rewards, will deflate the market very fast. Steady paces (up or down) is the way to go!

However this belongs on another topic, as the current one, needs to be closed due to obvious reasons!

—————— ~~ ~~ —-————-
Charr’s need more Love. All is Vain
—————— ~~ ~~ —-————-

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Posted by: Grounder.7381

Grounder.7381

I wonder what can you pay for in gw2 that can help you win wvw / pvp with newb skills..
…exactly..!!.

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Posted by: LHound.8964

LHound.8964

I wonder what can you pay for in gw2 that can help you win wvw / pvp with newb skills..
…exactly..!!.

My tiger charr backpack, with such cuteness, can mesmerize WvW invaders with it’s glare!

—————— ~~ ~~ —-————-
Charr’s need more Love. All is Vain
—————— ~~ ~~ —-————-

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Posted by: Geotherma.2395

Geotherma.2395

I think if you left the P2W section out, which clearly is a bit misinformed, you would have had a better discussion here

Use the revive orb in Orr during an event, near some mobs, you will understand.

Intel i7 3.9ghz processor 16GB Ram 2TB HDD
Nvidia GTX 650 Win 7 64bit FFXI 4+yrs/Aion 4+ years Complete Noob~ Veteran OIF/OEF
http://everyonesgrudge.enjin.com/home MY GW2 Music http://tinyurl.com/cm4o6tu

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Posted by: eisberg.2379

eisberg.2379

If an item gives you gameplay advantage (like upgrades: +5% dmg, +5% armor etc) then it is P2W to some extent.

Can you please tell me what items in the shop give this stuff? Because I looked, and I don’t see any of that. I see +karma%, +XP% type boosters, but no +%damage or +%armor boosters in the shop.

As to your bank/bag space being pay to win…. no, just no. Other MMOs make you pay $15 a month to have that bank/bag slots and you have to spend in game gold to get those slots.

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Posted by: Geotherma.2395

Geotherma.2395

If an item gives you gameplay advantage (like upgrades: +5% dmg, +5% armor etc) then it is P2W to some extent.

Can you please tell me what items in the shop give this stuff? Because I looked, and I don’t see any of that. I see +karma%, +XP% type boosters, but no +%damage or +%armor boosters in the shop.

As to your bank/bag space being pay to win…. no, just no. Other MMOs make you pay $15 a month to have that bank/bag slots and you have to spend in game gold to get those slots.

They are talking about these:

But I don’t believe they are pay to win, the increase isn’t major.

Attachments:

Intel i7 3.9ghz processor 16GB Ram 2TB HDD
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Posted by: nastyjman.8207

nastyjman.8207

Yeah, the 5% armor and strength boosts are only attainable through the Black Lion Chest. If you want to get those through those chests, then you’re paying to lose money…

First Team to reach 250 has 87% chance to win (Updated 7/30/2014) : http://bit.ly/1lWH6T8

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Posted by: Dra Keln.2015

Dra Keln.2015

Contrary to popular belief, loot manipulation doesn’t benefit anet. All it does is change the rarity of an item, and since anet doesn’t sell items directly the price comes from a the amount of . TP barons do not ruin the economy. People farming T6 mats do not ruin te economy. None of these add gold to the pool. People who farm Gold, be it via CoF or any other method are the sole source of inflation. Just wanted to put that out there

Inflation isn’t the result of CoF farming! Inflation is a natural process that occurs upon players getting more wealth. That is a natural process that keeps happening trough the game’s age. CoF gave players a faster way of getting gold, and because of that it has increased the velocity of the inflation process, but it’s not the sole responsible for that!

I agree that the game needs to tone down a bit CoF reward/time spent ratio, as long as they increase the rewards in different places. Creating a mechanism that will influence the market negatively as reducing CoF rewards, will deflate the market very fast. Steady paces (up or down) is the way to go!

However this belongs on another topic, as the current one, needs to be closed due to obvious reasons!

I was merely commenting on the fact that the gem store in no way gives anet a reason to market manipulate. And I wasn’t explicitly calling out CoF farming, it was just one of the easier examples. Just trying to inform people that when things are super expensive and they can’t afford them it’s not because of TP manipulators. It’s cause of excess gold. Which doesn’t come from Anet, hence the invalidity of this topic.

80 ele
Yaks Bend

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Posted by: LHound.8964

LHound.8964

Contrary to popular belief, loot manipulation doesn’t benefit anet. All it does is change the rarity of an item, and since anet doesn’t sell items directly the price comes from a the amount of . TP barons do not ruin the economy. People farming T6 mats do not ruin te economy. None of these add gold to the pool. People who farm Gold, be it via CoF or any other method are the sole source of inflation. Just wanted to put that out there

Inflation isn’t the result of CoF farming! Inflation is a natural process that occurs upon players getting more wealth. That is a natural process that keeps happening trough the game’s age. CoF gave players a faster way of getting gold, and because of that it has increased the velocity of the inflation process, but it’s not the sole responsible for that!

I agree that the game needs to tone down a bit CoF reward/time spent ratio, as long as they increase the rewards in different places. Creating a mechanism that will influence the market negatively as reducing CoF rewards, will deflate the market very fast. Steady paces (up or down) is the way to go!

However this belongs on another topic, as the current one, needs to be closed due to obvious reasons!

I was merely commenting on the fact that the gem store in no way gives anet a reason to market manipulate. And I wasn’t explicitly calling out CoF farming, it was just one of the easier examples. Just trying to inform people that when things are super expensive and they can’t afford them it’s not because of TP manipulators. It’s cause of excess gold. Which doesn’t come from Anet, hence the invalidity of this topic.

I Agree, thanks for clarification ^^

—————— ~~ ~~ —-————-
Charr’s need more Love. All is Vain
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Posted by: Aylaine.1036

Aylaine.1036

2. There are pay to win items.
Yes this is minor, but their presence is a serious pain. I count rez orbs, repair toolkits and upgrades, I might be missing some. Repair tools are essential in high level fractals as they allow you to avoid the one thing (theoretically) that can prevent you from completing a fractal level: armor breaking. Rez orbs feel awkward, but upgrades are a straight pay to win incentive! The fact that they are minor do not take away anything.

What the hell are you talking about? :P

This. These items are not pay to win. They’re, if anything, purely for convenience. Pay to win would be offering ascended weapons in the gem store only, for 2000 gems each. If you have a good group, and can dodge, you won’t need to repair a whole lot in fractals. Even in the off chance you get something like Dredge Fractal, you shouldn’t be dying that much or something is wrong. Furthermore, you can always log off,. log on, and end up in LA, go repair, then rejoin your party in FotM. So that’s a moot point.

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Posted by: PetricaKerempuh.7958

PetricaKerempuh.7958

i absolutely agree with the OP. it is already in the game and “there are much worse games” argument is childish. however, i don’t mind what OP said is in the game since it is “minor”. but he is also right about saying that existence of those items is harmful, since in my view, sets the stage for expanding on those mechanics.

guys, lets be honest here… we are paying for pvp arenas! this is paying for content in my opinion. (i know i don’t have to)

also, rng to get box full of rng is absolutely the worst rng i have ever experienced in mmo. im not a mathematician, but odds of getting something from that don’t seem high to me…

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Posted by: RainbowSyrup.4130

RainbowSyrup.4130

i absolutely agree with the OP. it is already in the game and “there are much worse games” argument is childish. however, i don’t mind what OP said is in the game since it is “minor”. but he is also right about saying that existence of those items is harmful, since in my view, sets the stage for expanding on those mechanics.

guys, lets be honest here… we are paying for pvp arenas! this is paying for content in my opinion. (i know i don’t have to)

also, rng to get box full of rng is absolutely the worst rng i have ever experienced in mmo. im not a mathematician, but odds of getting something from that don’t seem high to me…

so dont buy the rng boxes? there are ppl who like them, there are ppl who dont. You get tons of free boosters and repair canisters etc just by playing the game.

’’I’m sad hanar can’t wear sweaters’’
-Grunt

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Posted by: Maximus Delion.8719

Maximus Delion.8719

Interesting, I feel the exact opposite. A couple people gave me gem cards for my birthday a few months ago, and I’ve been sitting on several thousand gems since then because I can’t find anything in the gem store I want to spend them on (much less need to spend them on). I bought a couple bank tabs and another character slot a few months after release — because I wanted to give some financial support to ArenaNet — and they are still sitting empty. Oh, and I bought the Sport Sunglasses. Being a child of the ’80s, as soon as I read their description (“Can be worn at night.”) it was an instant sale.

I have yet to see any dirty tricks here. It’s all very open, honest and straight forward. I may not agree with their technique in every case: like the appearance items that are single-use or appearance items that can only be obtained through the gambling boxes. But the item descriptions state those limitations very clearly. Poor design choice? Yes. Dishonest or dirty trick? Definitely not.

If you wanted a dirty trick, ArenaNet could have very easily not included the collections tab in our bank and the ability to deposit collectibles from anywhere in the world. Then I would have completely agreed with you that we’re being pressured to buy more inventory and bank space. But it’s actually been quite the opposite – ArenaNet’s added spots for more items into the collections tab since release (loadstones, Halloween/Christmas materials, karka shells, passiflora, and many chef ingredients weren’t in there originally).

I’ve seen MMOs where not only do you HAVE to buy high-end gear from their cash shop, but you actually rent the gear for a limited time. You either have to spend more money every week or two to keep your gear, or it disappears. Or you can’t repair your gear through in-game means – you MUST buy a repair kit from the cash shop. Those are what I call dirty tricks. But there is no such shenanigans or tomfoolery here.

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Posted by: laokoko.7403

laokoko.7403

i absolutely agree with the OP. it is already in the game and “there are much worse games” argument is childish.

I actually can’t find a better payment model “for me”, that’s why I’m playing.

It’s not that there are much worse game. “Every” game have a worse payment model for me. You either have to go through those p2w games, or hybrid games which have a subscription and being treat like a second class citizen.

The reality is every game is trying to make money.

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Posted by: laokoko.7403

laokoko.7403

This. These items are not pay to win. They’re, if anything, purely for convenience. Pay to win would be offering ascended weapons in the gem store only, for 2000 gems each.

well you can buy ascended backpiece with real life money or spend alot of time in fractal which not everyone want to do. It’s already there. It’s really one of those grey area.

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Posted by: ilr.9675

ilr.9675

OP forgot to mention Transmutation Crystals.

There’s No way to obtain them in-game besides from farming Lion keys through story-mode re-rolls…. and then playing a lottery that Drop-research suggests only have a 3.5% chance of obtaining them through.

If Anet added a Forge recipe to turn our T-Stones into Crystals, I guarantee the price of Gems would PLUMMET.