Guild Wars 2

So, my wife and I have played GW2 since beta, and we have had a lot of fun. But now we are starting to see the game for what it actually is : Pay-to-win. A friend of ours started to play and was level 80 in 5 days, because he used $ to buy trade-skill mats to level up. This really made our level 80s seem pretty pointless, because it was then obvious that you can basically “buy” a level 80.

Now there are legendary weapons showing up on the trading post. We are very unhappy with this development. It seems most modern MMOs are all pay to win these day, with their cash-shops and the ability to buy coin. We long for the good old days of an even play field, no matter your standing in real life. I am now starting to look elsewhere for another MMO, even sub-based, with NO real life influence on your character. I worry that those days are over, and my enjoyment of MMO gaming is coming to an end.

Please explain to me how you “win” this game. Clearly we have a very different opinion on what winning means. If he rushed to level 80 then effectively paid to skip 80% of the game. Why would you be annoyed that someone can pay extra money to skip the fun and how is that winning?

As far as I am concerned the only thing that could make this game pay to win would be putting sPvP better stated items in the gem store or putting some super buff that makes you invincible in wvw.

When I saw Legendary weapons being sold at TP I just laughed. The cash cow mentality had reached new heights!

So, now, you can get a Legendary weapon for being a legendary player or having a legendary wallet.

I think your definition of pay to win and my definition are different.

Tell me how his ’bought’ lvl 80 is stronger than your lvl 80.

Gold trading is in almost all MMO’s.

Why this bothers you so much when you had so much fun ‘playing’ the game?

How do you ‘win’ by leveling to 80 that way?

My level 80 for whom I crafted all of my gear for without the aid of real money can kick backside in WvW.

I don’t think its a “pay to win” system at all. Legendaries are not AT ALL stronger then exotics for one, they are pretty much just “skins” that you can either earn or spend a bloody fortune (how many diamonds will you have to buy to make enough GOLD to buy a legendary from the store?) to acquire.
There is absolutely NOTHING in the store that will give someone an advantage in combat, maybe an experience, magic find, karma, swiftness boost among a couple others but nothing that will make one overall more powerful then another person of the same level.
Simply look at your gear stats and see if they work toward your play style. Maybe try looking for power and precision weapons and armor to boost your damage or something.

I personally thoroughly enjoy this game and plan on playing this for a very long time, it IS an even playing field and has many enjoyable features and NO SUBSCRIPTION FEE! Just enjoy the game!

Alastar.2863:

I don’t think its a “pay to win” system at all. Legendaries are not AT ALL stronger then exotics for one, they are pretty much just “skins” that you can either earn or spend a bloody fortune (how many diamonds will you have to buy to make enough GOLD to buy a legendary from the store?) to acquire.
There is absolutely NOTHING in the store that will give someone an advantage in combat, maybe an experience, magic find, karma, swiftness boost among a couple others but nothing that will make one overall more powerful then another person of the same level.
Simply look at your gear stats and see if they work toward your play style. Maybe try looking for power and precision weapons and armor to boost your damage or something.

I personally thoroughly enjoy this game and plan on playing this for a very long time, it IS an even playing field and has many enjoyable features and NO SUBSCRIPTION FEE! Just enjoy the game!

Helloooo?!?!?
If you buy BL keys to open BL chests you can get Armor Boosters and Strenght Boosters (-5% incoming damage / 5% outgoing damage) plus Speed Boosters (15% speed) and Rejuvenation Boosters (+ Health regen).

People run fractals desperatly to get items that give this type of increased stats and you say that gem store is almost purely cosmetic?

RedBaron.6058:

Alastar.2863:

I don’t think its a “pay to win” system at all. Legendaries are not AT ALL stronger then exotics for one, they are pretty much just “skins” that you can either earn or spend a bloody fortune (how many diamonds will you have to buy to make enough GOLD to buy a legendary from the store?) to acquire.
There is absolutely NOTHING in the store that will give someone an advantage in combat, maybe an experience, magic find, karma, swiftness boost among a couple others but nothing that will make one overall more powerful then another person of the same level.
Simply look at your gear stats and see if they work toward your play style. Maybe try looking for power and precision weapons and armor to boost your damage or something.

I personally thoroughly enjoy this game and plan on playing this for a very long time, it IS an even playing field and has many enjoyable features and NO SUBSCRIPTION FEE! Just enjoy the game!

Helloooo?!?!?
If you buy BL keys to open BL chests you can get Armor Boosters and Strenght Boosters (-5% incoming damage / 5% outgoing damage) plus Speed Boosters (15% speed) and Rejuvenation Boosters (+ Health regen).

People run fractals desperatly to get items that give this type of increased stats and you say that gem store is almost purely cosmetic?

I really think that is completely insignificant, as long as you don’t sit completely still! That will be hardly noticeable if you know what you are doing. (now, in wvw that will definitely be unnoticeable under all the circumstances there.)
Use stuns, conditions, boons, whatever! Run with the main army, then who cares what kind of boosts you are using in pve?

“Pay to win” does not apply to Guild wars 2, in my opinion.

People run fractals to get a special gear piece that protects against agony damage. A special type of damage that those BL chest armor boosters actually do not help with.

Not to mention that you’re still not ‘winning’ this game by being slightly more effective in simple PvE content that you can beat just as easily without paying extra money.

Alastar.2863:

(now, in wvw that will definitely be unnoticeable under all the circumstances there.)

Damage and armor booster doesn’t work in WvW or PvP.

Getting experience from crafting makes sense actually. And it’s a great way to level alts, something which would (and still does) take a lot of time for me.

Yah man, just spent $100 on Black Lions keys and got 1 strength booster. Now I’m gonna go wreck some bunnies for 10 minutes, fear me for I pay to win!

BUNNY SLAYER!

See, I calculated the price of a legendary weapon on the TP and it came about roughly 4000$ real cash. If you PAY four thousand dollar for a certain weapon in a game that cost 60$, then your wallet is truly legendary…

Diva.4706:

So, my wife and I have played GW2 since beta, and we have had a lot of fun. But now we are starting to see the game for what it actually is : Pay-to-win. A friend of ours started to play and was level 80 in 5 days, because he used $ to buy trade-skill mats to level up. This really made our level 80s seem pretty pointless, because it was then obvious that you can basically “buy” a level 80.

Now there are legendary weapons showing up on the trading post. We are very unhappy with this development. It seems most modern MMOs are all pay to win these day, with their cash-shops and the ability to buy coin. We long for the good old days of an even play field, no matter your standing in real life. I am now starting to look elsewhere for another MMO, even sub-based, with NO real life influence on your character. I worry that those days are over, and my enjoyment of MMO gaming is coming to an end.

My fiancé and I have been playing GW2 for 3 months now. Our first set of lvl 80s took…5 days. 2nd set of lvl 80s took…5h(a bit longer for him, he just doesn’t “get” crafting). He’s an absolute winner in WvWvW and I got half a legendary in 3 weeks of playing. No real money was spent after the initial game purchase. Tell me more about pay2win.

Diva.4706:

So, my wife and I have played GW2 since beta, and we have had a lot of fun. But now we are starting to see the game for what it actually is : Pay-to-win. A friend of ours started to play and was level 80 in 5 days, because he used $ to buy trade-skill mats to level up. This really made our level 80s seem pretty pointless, because it was then obvious that you can basically “buy” a level 80.

Now there are legendary weapons showing up on the trading post. We are very unhappy with this development. It seems most modern MMOs are all pay to win these day, with their cash-shops and the ability to buy coin. We long for the good old days of an even play field, no matter your standing in real life. I am now starting to look elsewhere for another MMO, even sub-based, with NO real life influence on your character. I worry that those days are over, and my enjoyment of MMO gaming is coming to an end.

it has come to an end

if you think this is Pay to win i mean seriously it has come to an end

Peetee.9406:

Yah man, just spent $100 on Black Lions keys and got 1 strength booster.

Did you get anything you felt was worth your benjamin?

Why would anyone bother paying cash to level straight to 80? You skip a massive part of the game. Its not like GW2 has a ‘the game starts at 80’ scenario. I just dont see the point.

Also how does someone buying their way to 80 devalue your lvl 80? All he has done is miss most of the games content. Being lvl 80 doesnt mean much.

If people want to blow heaps of money so that they can skip and therefore see less of the game, more power to them. Its their loss not yours.

Hmm, ‘strength booster’ … ‘wreck some bunnies’ … is this conversation still PG-rated?

So you enjoyed the game, enjoyed playing and enjoyed leveling with your wife and somehow someone took all that away from you because they spent money?

So if a friend of yours did the mail order bride thing, would that make your marriage and the time spent with your wife worthless?

I do not get how an action of another person devalued your personal enjoyment.

I want an MMO where real money only allows access to log in. When in game, all content is obtained/experienced through game play. Period.

I feel those types of games are gone.

I wouldn’t call it pay2win as such, but the OP does have a point that a lot of achievements in game can be bought. I also find that disappointing, because it does invalidate a lot of content this way.

I just play the game to have fun and enjoy the game itself. If other people buy in a day what takes me months of play to earn more slowly that is fine. What they are buying is not a “win” it is cosmetic.

Diva.4706:

I want an MMO where real money only allows access to log in. When in game, all content is obtained/experienced through game play. Period.

I feel those types of games are gone.

Please tell.

What content can’t you access through gameplay?

TheDaiBish.9735:

Diva.4706:

I want an MMO where real money only allows access to log in. When in game, all content is obtained/experienced through game play. Period.

I feel those types of games are gone.

Please tell.

What content can’t you access through gameplay?

you miss my point entirely

Gehenna.3625:

I wouldn’t call it pay2win as such, but the OP does have a point that a lot of achievements in game can be bought. I also find that disappointing, because it does invalidate a lot of content this way.

Good call, that is the first argument against RMT that has some real merit. I guess there are people that are really serious about achievements, those would certainly be somehow affected by this.

Diva.4706:

you miss my point entirely

Then what was your point?

Naqaj.6219:

Gehenna.3625:

I wouldn’t call it pay2win as such, but the OP does have a point that a lot of achievements in game can be bought. I also find that disappointing, because it does invalidate a lot of content this way.

Good call, that is the first argument against RMT that has some real merit. I guess there are people that are really serious about achievements, those would certainly be somehow affected by this.

And here I thought the whole point of an achievement was to…achieve it. Not just to have it…

Naqaj.6219:

Gehenna.3625:

I wouldn’t call it pay2win as such, but the OP does have a point that a lot of achievements in game can be bought. I also find that disappointing, because it does invalidate a lot of content this way.

Good call, that is the first argument against RMT that has some real merit. I guess there are people that are really serious about achievements, those would certainly be somehow affected by this.

It’s not though. Your achievements are just that, your achievements. How someone else obtains theirs does not affect you in any matter what so ever.

Naqaj.6219:

Gehenna.3625:

I wouldn’t call it pay2win as such, but the OP does have a point that a lot of achievements in game can be bought. I also find that disappointing, because it does invalidate a lot of content this way.

Good call, that is the first argument against RMT that has some real merit. I guess there are people that are really serious about achievements, those would certainly be somehow affected by this.

It’s a simple thing really. If you put effort into something then it has a value for you. If then someone comes by and gets it cheaply, the value of your effort suddenly is compared to the cheap way. Originally the achievement had the value of what you put into it. And all of a sudden someone invalidates it by giving it a different value.

For example, if it takes you 20 hours of gameplay to get something and somebody buys it for 10 bucks worth of gems. Then your 20 hours are no longer represented by the effort but the money value. In this case 10 bucks for 20 hours of gaming effort.

Would you work for 50 cents an hour?

This is the point.

Diva.4706:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Diva.4706:

I want an MMO where real money only allows access to log in. When in game, all content is obtained/experienced through game play. Period.

I feel those types of games are gone.

Please tell.

What content can’t you access through gameplay?

you miss my point entirely

Enlighten us.

I thought your point was that you couldn’t access all content unless you used real money.

If you spent 30 hours of gameplay you didn’t actually enjoy to get something, that time was wasted, period.

If you spend those 20 hours actually enjoying the game, others getting the same stuff by paying for it doesn’t take away the time you spent enjoying the game. They only cheated themselves out of 20 hours of fun.

If you need ‘effort’ to enjoy a game, make an effort to only do fun stuff and never let yourself waste time on pointless chores you don’t enjoy. That’s an effort nobody can take away from you with any amount of money.

Gehenna.3625:

Naqaj.6219:

Gehenna.3625:

I wouldn’t call it pay2win as such, but the OP does have a point that a lot of achievements in game can be bought. I also find that disappointing, because it does invalidate a lot of content this way.

Good call, that is the first argument against RMT that has some real merit. I guess there are people that are really serious about achievements, those would certainly be somehow affected by this.

It’s a simple thing really. If you put effort into something then it has a value for you. If then someone comes by and gets it cheaply, the value of your effort suddenly is compared to the cheap way. Originally the achievement had the value of what you put into it. And all of a sudden someone invalidates it by giving it a different value.

For example, if it takes you 20 hours of gameplay to get something and somebody buys it for 10 bucks worth of gems. Then your 20 hours are no longer represented by the effort but the money value. In this case 10 bucks for 20 hours of gaming effort.

Would you work for 50 cents an hour?

This is the point.

I’m getting money while having fun?
Yes please…

Someone needs to learn the definiton of p2w it seems.

My point is that real life wealth should have zero impact on the game.

Diva.4706:

My point is that real life wealth should have zero impact on the game.

Our point is it has no impact, unless you convince yourself it does.

Diva.4706:

My point is that real life wealth should have zero impact on the game.

Sadly there are gold sellers in every game that makes it possible. ArenaNet made the decision to sell it themselves instead, which is a lot better than illegal gold selling.

Old-school MMO : A person making 25K a year was equal to a person making $250K , in the game world. Now they are not. The MMO was an escape into another world, where we are all equal and only hard work and dedication would bring you great rewards. Now you just open your real world wallet. It has killed what an MMO used to be.

You escape into another world to do more work?

I’m beginning to understand why your argument doesn’t make any sense to me.

Diva.4706:

Old-school MMO : A person making 25K a year was equal to a person making $250K , in the game world. Now they are not. The MMO was an escape into another world, where we are all equal and only hard work and dedication would bring you great rewards. Now you just open your real world wallet. It has killed what an MMO used to be.

It really doesn’t make a difference.

I have converted no gems to gold, and I have full Exotics. Therefore I’m still equal to someone who spent real money to get their gear. I am also half-way to getting my Foefire’s Essence.

Just because other people do it, doesn’t mean you have to cheapen the game for yourself.

Not to mention there’s goldselling in every game. To think that everyone played by the rules (and therefore, in your books, are equal) is naive.

There Is No win , there is no feeling of accomplishment in this game at all , so i dont understand your point

So…your level 80 that you guys are actually skilled at playing is less valuable now that he hit level 80 crafting? What difference does that even make?

I don’t see why that bothers you. He would be a terrible player if all he’s done is craft to 80. Being level 80 doesn’t mean anything!

It really gets tiresome reading these posts from people who complain about how other players are playing and accomplishing things that has no effect on them personally. I mean, think about it. HOW DOES IT EVEN AFFECT YOU! There’s only one answer…it doesn’t. If it makes you bitter, then that’s a personal issue I guess.

Also, a big LOL to the guy that says the hour long booster buffs are huge advantages. You can’t even run them in sPvP so who cares. WvW is a numbers game so who cares if one person has a speed buff on them. They run into a zerg, they are dead. It’s not like those boosters will magically allow them to kill a whole group of people.

People just want to complain for the sake of complaining.

I leveled two characters to 80 the old fashioned way in 3 months and I could not care less that someone paid real money to buy mats to craft to 80. That means absolutely nothing. I don’t even care if they want to buy gold to buy the legendaries on the TP. Why don’t I care? Because it doesn’t affect my playstyle in any way shape or form. OMG their weapon sparkles and mine doesn’t!!!?? NOOOOOOOO

Farzo.8410:

Diva.4706:

My point is that real life wealth should have zero impact on the game.

Sadly there are gold sellers in every game that makes it possible. ArenaNet made the decision to sell it themselves instead, which is a lot better than illegal gold selling.

This is true, and I almost wish MMOs had not gone mainstream. Still the fact that the company is fine with you buying rewards, instead of earning them, makes me not want to play their game.

Wait a second, even with your logic, this still makes no sense. If anything, the ability for other players to just buy stuff makes your effor more valuable, not less.
In old MMOs you never even had a choice, it was grind or bust. Actually having the option to go the easy way, and doing it the hard way regardless makes your accomplishment greater, not smaller.

So I bought a pet bundle from the item shop – I figured i’d sell the one that i didn’t want.

Do I then plonk this in-game cash I earned from the pet, into the bank and never touch it again, for fear of RMT giving an alt a bolster?

The pet has gone on the market for 7g btw – that’s probably enough to get me to level 70 through crafting.

Gehenna.3625:

Naqaj.6219:

Gehenna.3625:

I wouldn’t call it pay2win as such, but the OP does have a point that a lot of achievements in game can be bought. I also find that disappointing, because it does invalidate a lot of content this way.

Good call, that is the first argument against RMT that has some real merit. I guess there are people that are really serious about achievements, those would certainly be somehow affected by this.

It’s a simple thing really. If you put effort into something then it has a value for you. If then someone comes by and gets it cheaply, the value of your effort suddenly is compared to the cheap way. Originally the achievement had the value of what you put into it. And all of a sudden someone invalidates it by giving it a different value.

For example, if it takes you 20 hours of gameplay to get something and somebody buys it for 10 bucks worth of gems. Then your 20 hours are no longer represented by the effort but the money value. In this case 10 bucks for 20 hours of gaming effort.

Would you work for 50 cents an hour?

This is the point.

If you consider achievement hunting to be work, why are you chasing achievements at all?

If you don’t like it, don’t do it. If you like it, who cares how long it takes.

This game has problems for sure, but pay2win isn’t one of them. I think the OP needs some perspective. The first mmorpg I played, after getting severely burned out on a hardcore mmorts, was p2w. This game had all of it’s elite armors, gems, and pets ONLY in the cash shop. The player could not obtain these items any possible way in-game save for buying from another player who purchased the item in said cash shop.

Also, to grind to max level would take a player in decent gear around 2 years but in the cash shop were sand bags that could be easily killed to obtain massive exp and get a player to max level in a day. That my friends is what they p2w. =)

I’ll take that 15% speed boost off you, MS caps at 150%.

Wouldn’t surprise me if it doesn’t stack with Might and Protection boons either.

Diva.4706:

I want an MMO where real money only allows access to log in. When in game, all content is obtained/experienced through game play. Period.

I feel those types of games are gone.

You might want to try RIFT, if you haven’t already.

You don’t know what p2w is if you think gw2 is even a little bit p2w.
I suggest you to try some of the normal f2p games, then you will see what p2w is.

My last mmo for example. If you spent a few hundreds euro on the game, you could get around +100% damage done and -50% damge taken. Not to talk about all other extra (expensive stuff). Like extra talent points, stat points etc.

I also hate to burst your bubble about subscription games.
You can also buy gold in most of them, including wow. I don’t really see how it’s any different from here.

Legendary weapons aren’t exactly “pay2win” either. They just give a visual effect. Sure, you could get legendary weapon and full exotic within 5min if you spent a lot of money. But where’s the fun in that?
Some people probably prefer that and it’s just nice that they can have it as they want it.