Guild Wars 2

what you’re saying is incorrect, this game isn’t pay to win. i got tons of exp boosters without ever buying a gem and leveling up a alt to 80 takes 3 days with professions. and about the legendary on the trade post, what does that have to do with arenanet? are you crazy? legendaries are bound on equip which means that anyone can do whatever pleases them with it after it’s crafted. you can either use it on your character or sell it for the price you see fit.

Diva.4706:

So, my wife and I have played GW2 since beta, and we have had a lot of fun. But now we are starting to see the game for what it actually is : Pay-to-win. A friend of ours started to play and was level 80 in 5 days, because he used $ to buy trade-skill mats to level up. This really made our level 80s seem pretty pointless, because it was then obvious that you can basically “buy” a level 80.

Now there are legendary weapons showing up on the trading post. We are very unhappy with this development. It seems most modern MMOs are all pay to win these day, with their cash-shops and the ability to buy coin. We long for the good old days of an even play field, no matter your standing in real life. I am now starting to look elsewhere for another MMO, even sub-based, with NO real life influence on your character. I worry that those days are over, and my enjoyment of MMO gaming is coming to an end.

It’s not buy to win, you are saying it’s buy-to-get-to-lvl-80. Legendaries on the trading post are just a joke, no one will ever buy it, people are just trying to anonymously show off their money/legendary which makes 0 sense. And really…legendaries were always using gold to get it, 250 of all t6 mats + more? Who will get these materials just by farming? No one. The drop rate for lodestones? No one can/ will farm this…

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Diva.4706:

So, my wife and I have played GW2 since beta, and we have had a lot of fun. But now we are starting to see the game for what it actually is : Pay-to-win. A friend of ours started to play and was level 80 in 5 days, because he used $ to buy trade-skill mats to level up. This really made our level 80s seem pretty pointless, because it was then obvious that you can basically “buy” a level 80.

Now there are legendary weapons showing up on the trading post. We are very unhappy with this development. It seems most modern MMOs are all pay to win these day, with their cash-shops and the ability to buy coin. We long for the good old days of an even play field, no matter your standing in real life. I am now starting to look elsewhere for another MMO, even sub-based, with NO real life influence on your character. I worry that those days are over, and my enjoyment of MMO gaming is coming to an end.

It’s not buy to win, you are saying it’s buy-to-get-to-lvl-80. Legendaries on the trading post are just a joke, no one will ever buy it, people are just trying to anonymously show off their money/legendary which makes 0 sense. And really…legendaries were always using gold to get it, 250 of all t6 mats + more? Who will get these materials just by farming? No one. The drop rate for lodestones? No one can/ will farm this…

The game is designed so that you will buy gold, to obtain the rarest rewards. totally P2W.

They may as well just sell the skins in the cash-shop and be done with it.

Diva.4706:

1) The game is designed so that you will buy gold, to obtain the rarest rewards. totally P2W.

2) They may as well just sell the skins in the cash-shop and be done with it.

1) You don’t win if you use RL money to get stuff. By that definition, it isn’t P2W. P2W is when you have no option other than to use RL money in order to bridge a gap that skill cannot overcome.

2) Or, instead of just coming on the forums and whining, you could go in-game and get the skins like purely through playing? Seriously, what’s it to you if someone wants to put money down for some sparkly pixels?

If you are having trouble determining the difference between a Play to win game and a game that has a cash shop to generate revenue to support the game, go play Maple Story for a while. You will figure it out real quick, if you play that game and hundreds of others games that you are bombarded with ads on the internet daily then you should be able to get the difference,

What I hate is games that charge a monthly fee and have a cash shop to, that’s just wrong. If you feel like your efforts in a game have been cheapened go play one of those games for a while.

There is something everyone can agree on that Anet is pushing it a little over the line allowing gems to be traded in game for in game gold.

I guess I will have to think of it this way. The people spending $ to get content, are paying my sub fee. Yeah that feels better…

This game is not pay to win. Pay to win means that you can buy items that can’t be obtained playing and they give you permanent stats increase. In GW2 even the boosts you can get playing. In any case, even the gear you buy the gold you get from diamonds doesn’t make you win in this game because the gear advantage is really minor in comparison with many games. Master gear and up is fine and a exotic geared can’t 1 shot you.

Since GW2 is not a subscription game, and since MMO companies need to make money to pay their employees etc, I see no problem with the gem store. In no way is it required considering that you don’t win an MMO. I am sorry that the existance of the gem store ruined your experience with GW2 and wish you success in your search for a more enjoyable gaming experience. Due to the economic realities of running a business in the real world, the perfect non-sub MMO might be a lost cause for you. Perhaps you might consider single player or coop console or PC games. Without an economy and other players, the problems that trouble you simply don’t exist. Or, if you want to pay a sub to avoid the gem store, there are other MMOs that offer this feature.

Diva.4706:

The game is designed so that you will buy gold, to obtain the rarest rewards. totally P2W.

rarest rewards that have absolutely no impact on your gameplay (how much damage you dish out/can take) probably with the teeny exception of ascended backpiece, and even then its just 1 armor piece.

penatbater.4710:

Diva.4706:

The game is designed so that you will buy gold, to obtain the rarest rewards. totally P2W.

rarest rewards that have absolutely no impact on your gameplay (how much damage you dish out/can take) probably with the teeny exception of ascended backpiece, and even then its just 1 armor piece.

I didn’t say powerful , I said rarest. Getting the rarest items in GW2 is the “Win” because they are the “end game”.

penatbater.4710:

rarest rewards that have absolutely no impact on your gameplay (how much damage you dish out/can take) probably with the teeny exception of ascended backpiece, and even then its just 1 armor piece.

And when you think about it, you can’t even buy ascended items, because they and their rarest components tend to account bound xD But apparently people see GW2 as Civilisations -w/e number they got to-. A game you can “win”, “finish”. Not as a long term source of entertainment where the journey counts more than the end reward. They actually believe there is a predetermined end to it(as in, the game doesn’t end when you have played for so long, it became boring, but when you have xxx items). It’s just a very messed up perspective.

Diva.4706:

Old-school MMO : A person making 25K a year was equal to a person making $250K , in the game world. Now they are not. The MMO was an escape into another world, where we are all equal and only hard work and dedication would bring you great rewards. Now you just open your real world wallet. It has killed what an MMO used to be.

back in 1999 I knew a guy who was very wealthy who played Everquest, he had a T3 commercial line run into his house (most were playing on dial up back then) and had a bank of 24 computers installed so he could run 24 game clients …

he even ran his own raids…

and rumor was he even hired the neighbourhood kids to play his characters and level them while he was at work.. so yes even back in the “golden age” of MMO’s RL cash would give an advantage …

and I wont even start on how you could buy a max level characters or a cloak of flames right off E-bay back then…..

Nayru.3947:

TWMagimay.9057:

My fiancé and I have been playing GW2 for 3 months now. Our first set of lvl 80s took…5 days. 2nd set of lvl 80s took…5h(a bit longer for him, he just doesn’t “get” crafting). He’s an absolute winner in WvWvW and I got half a legendary in 3 weeks of playing. No real money was spent after the initial game purchase. Tell me more about pay2win.

Ok. You can legit buy gold and anything else you want on the gemstore . And you didn’t get your first level 80 in 5 hours. Enough for you, winner?

Your point being?

PS: @ the moderator: If you know a better way of saying that a post doesn’t appear to have a point, please, share it with me. Because I have no idea what the guy was trying to say/prove/demonstrate. Actually, I have no idea what the guy was trying to do. At all.

I’ve always wondered about the concept of “win” in an MMO. Who am I competing with? What am I competing for? Unless I’m in PvP/WvWvW I’m not competing with other humans, I know that. Am I competing against the game itself? Maybe…. Although I’m not sure that the game considers itself to have “lost” at any point.

This game, I play for pure escapism. To lose myself in wandering around the world. Other games I play for the feeling of being part of a skilled, coordinated team. I get those things from the games I play, so does that mean I win?

PtW games in mmo’s are ones that offer items that are only sold in the game companies cash shop and do not drop or are craftable ingame. Often these items will be the best stat items in game and offer a real advantage to players willing to shell out the cash.

Usually you only see this in open PvP games where the person with the fattest wallet is often the one at the top of the PvP ranking boards .. thereby … winning……

I don’t think I would mind even if they sold level 80 characters at the tp. If people want a quick level 80, so be it.
I wouldn’t trade the levelling up experience for all the tea in China. I find being at maximum level is usually boring, the fun is the getting there.

Diva.4706:

So, my wife and I have played GW2 since beta, and we have had a lot of fun. But now we are starting to see the game for what it actually is : Pay-to-win. A friend of ours started to play and was level 80 in 5 days, because he used $ to buy trade-skill mats to level up. This really made our level 80s seem pretty pointless, because it was then obvious that you can basically “buy” a level 80.

Now there are legendary weapons showing up on the trading post. We are very unhappy with this development. It seems most modern MMOs are all pay to win these day, with their cash-shops and the ability to buy coin. We long for the good old days of an even play field, no matter your standing in real life. I am now starting to look elsewhere for another MMO, even sub-based, with NO real life influence on your character. I worry that those days are over, and my enjoyment of MMO gaming is coming to an end.

I feel sorry for your friend, and in part for you because of your attitude towards his leveling. I’ve had the game for a month and I have 4 characters at level 20 and one that I keep deleting and trying something new with. I’m enjoying every area and the story and having more fun than I have had in a long time in an MMO, so much in fact that level 80 isn’t even a concern for me at this point. That’s rare for me, I don’t think I’ve felt that way about an MMO since EQ1 and that was mostly because the whole MMO experience was new to me back then.

If you want to just zoom to 80 and have the best stuff and then stare at each other wondering what do you do now because you’ve “won” the game then I feel sorry for you. However you always have the option to do the same…

No its not a pay to win but what it is at the moment it is a game that FORCES you to go to a direction ( fractuals, TP, or gem store) as an farmer you dont have an option anymore as everything is nerfed when it come to T6, lodestones, etc…how on earth are you suppoded to go for a legendary if you dont have gold.

I said it before in other topics, give farmers an option, I dont care how long it takes… make karma, skillpoints able to buy stuff for your legendary or a skin

Kind regards

Darkdanjal

Damage and armor booster doesn’t work in WvW ?
If this is true I stop playing now!

Maybe we have a different definition of pay to win here. My definition goes something like this: requirement to spend real life money to gain an virtual advantage. The only “advantage” here is that your friend just paid to not enjoy the journey of the game. He did not somehow gain an advantage over you in the virtual space, therefore it cannot be considered as pay to win.

Diva.4706:

We long for the good old days of an even play field, no matter your standing in real life.

You mean the MMOs where those with more spare time in real life to play thier choosen MMO had an advantage, there was no level playing field.

If the anti-farm code is actually existent and/or drop rate for legendary ingredient items are still super low… this is all to fight botting.

However, if there was a system in place to allow Karma purchases for ingredients, lodestones etc. I believe it would be beneficial and improve the desire to even attempt legendaries for players. Karma/Dynamic Events is the perfect way to avoid gold farmers/botters.

I wasn’t aware that leveling to 80 in 5 days instead of 10 makes you “win” the game and gave you a supreme advantage over other lvl 80 people.

Nayru.3947:

Nothing to do with the fact that you can pay to win instead of actually playing.

you dont understand what ‘pay to win’ means

Pay to Win is not just about Power, Pay to Win fits anything that is paying to beat others, be that buying legendaries off the Trading Post or buying boosts to surpass others to max level..

“Pay to Win” is basically how its said…totally agree OP.

My definition of pay to win is anything you can break out your wallet to buy that gives you any advantage over other players in PvE and especially in PvP. That means time spent gearing relative to time spent doing something else counts. That means having gear you bought with cash that is better than the gear of that other guy seeking a dungeon party counts. That means being able to buy anything non-cosmetic that you want off the TP because you bought gems for gold counts.

And it was my understanding that Legendaries either now have better stats than exotics or soon will and that the grind for them is completely unreasonable for a normal, non-gem buying player, therefore making them very pay to win, especially in WvW.

I don’t care about cash for cosmetics. I don’t even mind paying cash for character slots and bank space (in fact I did spend money on those things) but when you mess up the game economy, the drop rates, and the ability of players to PvP or participate on an even field in PvE with this junk, I get pretty annoyed, and I definitely stop supporting the game financially.

Also, I bet at least some of the people defending Legendaries in the cash shop and gems for gold are also the same people griping about the horrible drop rate nerfs. Guess they’ve never seen the connection between the two?

Nayru.3947:

FourTwenty.4268:

Nayru.3947:

Nothing to do with the fact that you can pay to win instead of actually playing.

you dont understand what ‘pay to win’ means

Obviously you don’t. I can teach you.

Example: Guild Wars 2 has a gem store. You can pay real money for gold on it.

Gold in GW2 = Win.
No gold in GW2 = lose.

Therefore we see you can pay to win.

Do you understand?

Oh, and what does “win” and “lose” mean? What does some extra gold actually grant you over another player? Sorry to inform you, but I haven’t spent a single penny of real cash for gold, and I have full sets of exotic equipment, four sets with different stats in fact, and a plethora of Ascended rings to choose from as well as a backpack, and a Legendary. I have everything I could ever want or need in the game without paying, and no doubt thousands upon thousands of others are in the same boat. Gold is nothing more than a tool to grab the cosmetics that you want in the long term like Legendaries and named armor sets, or to assist with bigger goals like Legendaries and unique Exotics, and gives no actual advantage. To any other player, you have not “won”. You look a little prettier, perhaps, but you’re not left at an edge. Attaining “end-game” equipment is child’s play, and anyone who has trouble with that doesn’t deserve to complain in any way, shape or form. The playing field is COMPLETELY level. Especially if you consider the sPvP side of the game (the actual competitive and controlled PvP), which is TOTALLY AND UTTERLY UNAFFECTED BY THE GEM STORE.

If your concept of “winning” is reaching the maximum level a modicum faster (which is redundant, as reaching maximum level is EASY) or having a shiny shiny that grants no benefit, then you should just, well, how can I put this…leave. Just leave.

I’m really impressed by the Fox News level of spin and denial I’m seeing.

Legendaries either are right now or soon will be better stat-wise than exotics.

Stop saying they aren’t or won’t be. They’ve already told us they will be. So quit with the ’it’s just pretty shinies it doesn’t matter’.

Corvindi.5734:

I’m really impressed by the level of Fox News spin and denial I’m seeing.

Legendaries either are right now or soon will be better stat-wise than exotics.

Stop saying they aren’t or won’t be. They’ve already told us they will be. So quit with the ’it’s just pretty shinies it doesn’t matter’.

Funny, because the stats are actually being increased to go alongside Ascended weapons, the next tier above Exotic, to ensure that they don’t become redundant by themselves (considering they are the skins that everyone is raging about). They will still not be at an edge. As it stands, they are EXACTLY on par with the highest tier, and always will be. Inform yourself, please.

And the grind for Ascended is terrible too and many people are shortcutting it with gems. Also, those of us who don’t do dungeons at this time are locked out of those items so have no choice but to be weaker than other players or purchase Legendaries. Inform yourself, please. Many posters here have compared Legendaries to Exotics, not Legendaries to Ascended.

Ascended gear is better stat-wise than exotics. Didn’t your post reference Exotics not Ascended?

You know what is truly legendary?

The level of “fanboyism” on these forums.

No one can bring up a point that is even remotely valid against GW2 without the white knights showing up in droves to defend it. The OP has a valid point. To try and defend it is ridiculous.

Gehenna explained it clearly in this post …

Gehenna.3625:

It’s a simple thing really. If you put effort into something then it has a value for you. If then someone comes by and gets it cheaply, the value of your effort suddenly is compared to the cheap way. Originally the achievement had the value of what you put into it. And all of a sudden someone invalidates it by giving it a different value.

For example, if it takes you 20 hours of gameplay to get something and somebody buys it for 10 bucks worth of gems. Then your 20 hours are no longer represented by the effort but the money value. In this case 10 bucks for 20 hours of gaming effort.

Would you work for 50 cents an hour?

This is the point.

To add to Gehena’s post, the assumption also comes into play that you bought your achievement, when perhaps you were one of the few that actually earned it. There is a difference.

Outside of the obvious goal of simply having fun, achievement is everything in an MMORPG. There are obviously many facets to playing an MMORPG. But how can anyone deny that developing your character is perhaps an MMORPGs most predominant objective. The entire purpose of an MMORPG is to progress by developing your character. Without that dynamic, all you have is an FPS.

There is value in putting forth the time and effort into developing your character. When you do so, your accomplishments elicit recognition and acknowledgement from friends and peers. When your achievements are rendered “worthless” because others are able to achieve your same results by simply buying it, then the whole progression dynamic of an MMORPG is suddenly rendered irrelevant.

One can love GW2 without having to defend every single aspect of the game. No game is perfect. Stop trying to make it so. You lose credibility when you do so.

Corvindi.5734:

And the grind for Ascended is terrible too and many people are shortcutting it with gems. Also, those of us who don’t do dungeons at this time are locked out of those items so have no choice but to be weaker than other players or purchase Legendaries. Inform yourself, please. Many posters here have compared Legendaries to Exotics, not Legendaries to Ascended.

So you also forget to mention that Arenanet have already said numerous times that there will be numerous methods to acquire Ascended equipment apart from dungeons? Sure, just ignore that part and twist everything out of proportion.

Curlybaby.6258:

No one can bring up a point that is even remotely valid against GW2 without the white knights showing up in droves to defend it.

Haha I misread that as ‘whine knights’. But then they think of us as whiners, too.

When it comes down to it, if devs don’t want players to complain about things in a game we don’t like and that will stop us from continuing to spend money on their games, that isn’t too bright of them.

When other customers try to shush us or attack us for doing these companies the favor of bothering to let them know when we aren’t happy, well, they’re not helping developers make better games.

If I didn’t like many things about Guild Wars 2 I wouldn’t ever have wasted my time even mentioning what I don’t like.

He took 5 days when he crafted his way to 80?

Should have taken him 5 hours max lol.

Besides, its not like getting to 80 is winning, I had more fun leveling up in this game than I did with anything endgame, that’s not saying much though because leveling got rather repetitive too.

And unless you can buy ascended gear with $, then this game isn’t p2w.

Auesis.7301:

Corvindi.5734:

And the grind for Ascended is terrible too and many people are shortcutting it with gems. Also, those of us who don’t do dungeons at this time are locked out of those items so have no choice but to be weaker than other players or purchase Legendaries. Inform yourself, please. Many posters here have compared Legendaries to Exotics, not Legendaries to Ascended.

So you also forget to mention that Arenanet have already said numerous times that there will be numerous methods to acquire Ascended equipment apart from dungeons? Sure, just ignore that part and twist everything out of proportion.

And companies always do what they say? Those same gender romances in SWTOR are going along just fine, I hear. Oh, wait!

Besides, even if they offer other ways, if those other ways is a massive grind for gold or mats or likely both, well, it’s still pay to win because of the sheer amount of time it takes to play catch-up with those who break out their wallets every time a new piece of gear is introduced.

Pay2Win has a very well known and agreed upon definition in the MMO community and GW2 doesn’t fit the criteria, period.

As stated in other threads, there are some serious problems in this game atm (ones that make me want to not play anymore) but p2w isn’t one of them.

Sorry but it’s just not, any way you look at it (by the current widely understood and agreed p2w definition).

It’s not really pay to win (unless you look at boosters which in some way give yuo an advantage). It’s more like pay to look the way you want without effort.

kidkilowat.5932:

Pay2Win has a very well known and agreed upon definition in the MMO community and GW2 doesn’t fit the criteria, period.

As stated in other threads, there are some serious problems in this game atm (ones that make me want to not play anymore) but p2w isn’t one of them.

Sorry but it’s just not, any way you look at it (by the current widely understood and agreed p2w definition).

Source for this definition and proof of it as the standard, agreed-upon definition, please.

It is true that I have seen this definition change somewhat over the past several years on forums in response to the growing acceptance of free to play games with cash shops.

I still think if you ask the average player if putting a weapon with superior stats in the cash shop that you can technically get from a drop in the game but the drop rate is .00001%, most will say it’s pay to win.

So how is it not pay to win to buy a weapon with superior stats that takes hundreds or thousands of hours to grind?

I didn’t care until they introduced Ascended and made Exotics no longer BiS. I really didn’t. Cosmetics and what people will do to get them means nothing to me. I was pretty much over gems for gold, too, because Exotics aren’t that horrible to get (although that will change as drop rates decline I guess).

I didn’t care about people getting to max level in a hurry with their wallets except I wish it hadn’t been possible from the start because of WvW, but now it isn’t a huge deal if someone wants to skip leveling, unlike the OP, I figure that is their loss.

Gehenna.3625:

It’s a simple thing really. If you put effort into something then it has a value for you. If then someone comes by and gets it cheaply, the value of your effort suddenly is compared to the cheap way. Originally the achievement had the value of what you put into it. And all of a sudden someone invalidates it by giving it a different value.

For example, if it takes you 20 hours of gameplay to get something and somebody buys it for 10 bucks worth of gems. Then your 20 hours are no longer represented by the effort but the money value. In this case 10 bucks for 20 hours of gaming effort.

Curlybaby.6258:

There is value in putting forth the time and effort into developing your character. When you do so, your accomplishments elicit recognition and acknowledgement from friends and peers.

So what you are saying is that, IF i have low self-esteem and cant take pride in my own effort GW2 is P2W?

I need other ppl’s grind to validate my own grind? what!?!

Konfuzfanten.6503:

Gehenna.3625:

It’s a simple thing really. If you put effort into something then it has a value for you. If then someone comes by and gets it cheaply, the value of your effort suddenly is compared to the cheap way. Originally the achievement had the value of what you put into it. And all of a sudden someone invalidates it by giving it a different value.

For example, if it takes you 20 hours of gameplay to get something and somebody buys it for 10 bucks worth of gems. Then your 20 hours are no longer represented by the effort but the money value. In this case 10 bucks for 20 hours of gaming effort.

Curlybaby.6258:

There is value in putting forth the time and effort into developing your character. When you do so, your accomplishments elicit recognition and acknowledgement from friends and peers.

So what you are saying is that, IF i have low self-esteem and cant take pride in my own effort GW2 is P2W?

I need other ppl’s grind to validate my own grind? what!?!

What I am saying is …

1. It has nothing to do with self-esteem or pride, neither should be an issue when playing an online game. I don’t know about you, but I attain neither self-esteem nor pride by playing an online game. Those descriptors might be better suited to the pro “power-curve, gear-grind hamsters” in the game, which I am not one of.

2. The game is all about progression and achievement through progression. Let’s play the game on an even field. In other words, stop playing your game of monopoly with a stack of “get out of jail free” cards, while mine has none.

RedBaron.6058:

When I saw Legendary weapons being sold at TP I just laughed. The cash cow mentality had reached new heights!

So, now, you can get a Legendary weapon for being a legendary player or having a legendary wallet.

Haha this made my day. Nailed it.

Peetee.9406:

I think your definition of pay to win and my definition are different.

Tell me how his ‘bought’ lvl 80 is stronger than your lvl 80.

Well a lvl 80 who reaches it and buys exotic gear is stronger than someone who won’t pay for gold and is in greens until he can farm enough mats.

Be that as it may I agree that it isn’t pay to win. However its still a poor situation.

@Diva.4706

I am sorry to hear that your GW2 experience was spoiled by something someone else did. I hope you can regain the sense of enthusiasm and enjoyment you previously enjoyed. Why is your enjoyment based on what other people have or don’t have, and how they got it? This is something that is never going to be under your control no matter what game you play. The best way to regain your sense of enjoyment is going to involve deciding that it does not matter at all what others do or don’t do, or have, or don’t have.

RedBaron.6058:

When I saw Legendary weapons being sold at TP I just laughed. The cash cow mentality had reached new heights!

So, now, you can get a Legendary weapon for being a legendary player or having a legendary wallet.

How is that any different than before? Seventy five percent of most any legendary is forged from purchasable mats. So long as you can buy in game gold, you can buy levels, you can buy gear, you can buy power and prestige and… well anything really. But in my opinion, that isn’t winning the game because there is no ‘winning’, it’s a persistent world, there is no winning because there is no end.

Diva.4706:

My point is that real life wealth should have zero impact on the game.

This is not possible at all, every game has gold sellers and people get lazy and buy gold. So either you are naive and believe that everyone earns everything or just blind.

Hmmm my defination of winning in GW2 is making it to 80 the slow way. I’ve taken my time, and my main only made 80 a week ago. I have enjoyed the game so much because I’ve explored and found all kinds of surprises and nooks and crannies. Some great dialog if you listen to some of the NPCs around you. Enjoying the journey is the real win in the game. Since my main made 80, I’ve started on another toon, and doing different areas enhances the experience with new personal stories and areas. I think those who rush to 80 are missing a wonder gaming experience. “Savoy the moment”

People like Diva should not be able to play this game with such a negative attitude. Those people who buy gems are the ones who are supporting the servers and future content.

Also the issue is with you not the game, because im playing the same game and people buying gems has no impact on my game experience. Actually it improves it because im getting new content to play.

Peetee.9406:

I think your definition of pay to win and my definition are different.

Tell me how his ‘bought’ lvl 80 is stronger than your lvl 80.

Exactly! People don’t seem to know the actual meaning of “pay-to-win”, hell, it’s explained in the wording itself. You pay money, to have a physical advantage over someone else in game. Someone getting to level 80 faster than you does not constitute as P2W, not even close.